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  1. #1
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    Gary Palmer and Nathan Dodd have applied for Pakistan batting coach role

    Nathan Dodd is an Australian coach. Don't know much about him.

    Gary Palmer is more well-known and has worked with many County players. He's known for helping Alastair Cook, Shan Masood, etc. However, he's understood to not be keen on a full-time role so is being put forward on a consultancy basis.

    I wonder who the local options are. Surely some have applied.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Nathan Dodd is an Australian coach. Don't know much about him.

    Gary Palmer is more well-known and has worked with many County players. He's known for helping Alastair Cook, Shan Masood, etc. However, he's understood to not be keen on a full-time role so is being put forward on a consultancy basis.

    I wonder who the local options are. Surely some have applied.
    i think they should determine the head coach first, once that is settler, they need to identify chief selection and then heach coach, chief selector and wasim khan to jointly identify the right mix of support staff. often these head coaches have people in mind that they work well with in the past.

  3. #3
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    http://www.aawaajnews.com/2018/11/po...as-head-coach/

    This guy was recently coaching some nepali T20 team

  4. #4
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    Gary Palmer would be awesome. We saw how Shan Masood significantly improved after a stint with him.

  5. #5
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    Pakistan should hire a full time batting coach , not short term basis.

    Batting is the main area of concern.

  6. #6
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    Gary palmer has set up an amazing indoor and outdoor batting academy. He has a bowling machine were it mixes up swinging and non swinging deliveries so u get a similar situation to a real match. I think Rohail nazir has worked with him. Would be awesome if pak hired him or sent Abdullah Shafiq and Haider Ali etc to work with him

  7. #7
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    We need Gary Palmer ASAP! Just because we already have Younis Khan doesnít mean we canít hire him.

    I would make him batting coach for the Shaheens and U-19s with Ijaz Ahmed remaining as head coach. Effective immediately. Gary Palmer would do absolute wonders with our age groups teams.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Gary Palmer would be awesome. We saw how Shan Masood significantly improved after a stint with him.
    to be honest, masood got away with many drop catches in the first test against england, and after that first test, he did nothing


    "Life is Pain"
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  9. #9
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    People here play way too much stock on the power of coaches. Yes they are important, yes they can guide players and get players to understand their own game better, but that's basically it.

    And as far as batting coaches go, Younis is perfect for our side.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    People here play way too much stock on the power of coaches. Yes they are important, yes they can guide players and get players to understand their own game better, but that's basically it.

    And as far as batting coaches go, Younis is perfect for our side.
    How do u think India produce so many batsmen? I believe its quality coaching at all levels. Can anyone shed light on how they produce so many world class batsmen compared to Pakistan 🇵🇰?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataullah View Post
    How do u think India produce so many batsmen? I believe its quality coaching at all levels. Can anyone shed light on how they produce so many world class batsmen compared to Pakistan ����?
    my assumption is school cricket, they have very good programs going on. Infact, i think some families choose the schools of their children based upon which school has a better cricekt program.

    This is what is done in Canada and US in terms of sports


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataullah View Post
    How do u think India produce so many batsmen? I believe its quality coaching at all levels. Can anyone shed light on how they produce so many world class batsmen compared to Pakistan ����?
    I concur with Major but I think its a mix of school cricket and pitches in domestic cricket that are highly batsmen friendly. This though is just a generalized theory on my part and I am sure the reality is a bit more complex.

    But India and Sri Lanka have both produced some of their greatest prodigies through school cricket: Tendulkar, Kambli, Sanga, Jayawardena. Even in South Africa school cricket is big and the likes of AB and Faf did very well in school level (even playing for the same school), before rising up the junior levels to the South African side.

  13. #13
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    I would love to see a legend like viv richards, lara or ponting to be the batting coach! I think a presence like this will do immense good to the morale

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indian_cricket_fan View Post
    I would love to see a legend like viv richards, lara or ponting to be the batting coach! I think a presence like this will do immense good to the morale
    More chance of legends hafeez, imran farhat, faisal iqbal being next pakistan batting coach.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    my assumption is school cricket, they have very good programs going on. Infact, i think some families choose the schools of their children based upon which school has a better cricekt program.

    This is what is done in Canada and US in terms of sports
    Why do u think they don't produce as many good bowlers as 🇵🇰 even with top school cricket system? Or is that because of diet or batting culture?

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    Saw the thread where Masood talks of working with Palmer and the main takeaway seemed to be a lot of 1 on 1 time with heavy use of bowling machine - things apparently lacking in the PCB at the time...(really hope this has changed since).

    Agreed Masood still looks very chancy when playing - his 160 included. Aslam was/is a better opener...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataullah View Post
    Why do u think they don't produce as many good bowlers as even with top school cricket system? Or is that because of diet or batting culture?
    for bowlers, i dont know.

    But pakistan produces bowlers due to two reasons.

    one, everyone wants to be a shoaib akhtar here. second, its cheaper to be a bowler. Players cant afford kits here, in club you get a ball by the coach and you start bowling


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  18. #18
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    The problem is this.

    Younis (and Misbah) can provide useful coaching to senior players about the mental side of the game.

    But you need a specialist coach like Palmer to work on the technical side of the game, because he understands the actual mechanics of batting for a range of techniques, which Younis cannot.

    Pakistan is in a funny position currently.

    Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan are the finished article as batsmen.

    Shan Masood is mediocre but Palmer gets him batting competently.

    But there are several younger players who are capable of further technical improvement if they get an appropriately technically skilled coach. I am thinking of:

    Abdullah Shafique and Haider Ali, to let them better understand the technical side of their games.

    Saud Shakeel to refine his technique.

    Mohammad Nawaz, Shadab Khan and Rohail Nazir probably have the basic skills that could be honed to take them to the point at which they could each average 40 as Test batsman/all-rounders.

    Even lower down the order, proper batting coaching could probably enable all five of Faheem Ashraf, Amad Butt, Hasan Ali, Zafar Gohar and Sajid Khan to average 25 with the bat in Tests.

    Younis Khan is excellent for teaching young cricketers to understand the mental side of international cricket.

    But someone like Gary Palmer could add 150 runs per innings to the Pakistan Test batting line-up.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    The problem is this.

    Younis (and Misbah) can provide useful coaching to senior players about the mental side of the game.

    But you need a specialist coach like Palmer to work on the technical side of the game, because he understands the actual mechanics of batting for a range of techniques, which Younis cannot.

    Pakistan is in a funny position currently.

    Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan are the finished article as batsmen.

    Shan Masood is mediocre but Palmer gets him batting competently.

    But there are several younger players who are capable of further technical improvement if they get an appropriately technically skilled coach. I am thinking of:

    Abdullah Shafique and Haider Ali, to let them better understand the technical side of their games.

    Saud Shakeel to refine his technique.

    Mohammad Nawaz, Shadab Khan and Rohail Nazir probably have the basic skills that could be honed to take them to the point at which they could each average 40 as Test batsman/all-rounders.

    Even lower down the order, proper batting coaching could probably enable all five of Faheem Ashraf, Amad Butt, Hasan Ali, Zafar Gohar and Sajid Khan to average 25 with the bat in Tests.

    Younis Khan is excellent for teaching young cricketers to understand the mental side of international cricket.

    But someone like Gary Palmer could add 150 runs per innings to the Pakistan Test batting line-up.
    Imagine what mind blow opportunities PCB & PCT is missing!!!! Just imagine the impact - say this guy Palmer was appointed 4 years back..... and then I apply the possibilities, where PAK's Test batting and subsequently result could have ended - let's start from latest to past, this is Sunday evening ...

    1. Southampton: Actual result - Draw. ENG 583/8 Dec. PAK 273 + 187/4
    GP impact: ENG 583/8 Dec. PAK 423 + and avoids follow-on - still draw

    2. Southampton: Actual result - Draw. PAK 236, ENG 114/4
    GP impact: PAK 350+ for 8 - still draw

    3. Manchester: PAK 326 + 169, ENG 219+ 277/7: ENG winning by 3 wickets
    GP impact: PAK 476 + 46/2, ENG 219 & Follow-on + ~300; PAK winning by 8 wickets

    Series Result: ENG winning 1-0- GP impact: PAK winning 1-0
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    4. R'Pindi: BD 233 + 168, PAK 445 - PAK win by innings & 44 runs
    GP impact: PAK winning by innings & 194 runs

    5. Karachi: PAK 191 + 555/3, SRL 271 + 212 - PAK win by 263 runs inside 4 days (5th morning)
    GP impact: PAK winning by 413 runs (I think, tail won't have got the chance to add 150 second tim)

    6. R'Pindi: SRL 308/6, PAK 252/2 - draw
    GP impact: still draw for wet field

    No change in either series result in any case
    --------------------------------------------------

    7. Adelaide: AUS win by innings and 48 runs with around 110 overs left in the game: AUS 589/3 Dec., PAK 302+ 239
    GP Impact: AUS 589/3 Dec., + say 135/3Dec., PAK 452 + 89/6 - Match draw
    Key here is, PAK avoiding follow-on means AUS would had to bat second time and I think, minimum they would have set is 270+, giving PAK 40 overs to bat in starting 35 minutes earlier than the start of "twilight zone"

    8. Brisbane: AUS winning by innings & 5 runs: PAK 240 + 335, AUS 580 ... again match ending with around 115 overs left inside 4 days
    GP Impact: PAK 390 + 485; AUS 580 & 105/6 - Draw. PAK batted at around 3.38 rate in that game, means extra 300 runs would have cost around 89 overs, leaving Aussies an impossible target of 295 to chase in like 29 overs.... I believe, they would have given a desperate try, hence 6 down before captains shaking hands

    Series result: AUS winning 2-0 batting twice and losing 13 wickets in total - GP impact: series draw and AUS having a scare in first Tests, PAK in second .... honors even at the end
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    9. J'burg: Actual - SAF winning by 107 runs inside 3.5 days with 155 overs left in the game: SAF 262 & 303, PAK 185 + 273
    GP impact: SAF 262 + 303, PAK 345 + 221/8 - PAK winning by 2 wickets

    10. Cape Town: Actual - SAF winning by 9 wickets inside 10 sessions. PAK 177 + 294, SAF 431 + 43/1
    GP Impact: PAK 327 + 444, SAF 431 + 256 - PAK winning by 84 runs.
    PAK batted around 3.9 rate in that game, so 300 runs would have cost around 75 overs, leaving SAF to chase 340 in 95 overs, with 15 overs with 2nd ball -I gave then 256 on Day 5 wicket.

    11. Centurion: Actual: SAF winning by 6 wickets inside 3 days (8 sessions). PAK: 181 + 190, SAF 223 + 151/4
    GP Impact: PAK 331 + 340, SAF 223 + 250 - PAK winning by 198 runs. Time wasn't a factor there and don't see SAF bettering 250 in 4th innings from 151/4

    Series result: Actual SAF winning 3-0, in total costing CSAF 15 sessions of gate & tv money
    GP Impact: PAK winning 3-0, carrying every game to 15th session.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    12. Abu Dhabi: Actual: NZ winning by 123 runs: NZ 274 + 353/7d, PAK 348 + 156
    GP Impact: NZ 272 + 153/4d, PAK 498. Game ended in last session with 23 overs left. At their scoring rate another 150 would have cost around 55 overs, means Kiwis would have got around 60 overs to survive - they were 152/4 after 55 overs in actual game ........ result: Draw

    13. Dubai: Actual - PAK winning by innings & 16 runs: PAK 416/5d, NZ 90 + 312 with more than 100 overs left
    GP impact: PAK winning by innings and 16 runs - they declared at 5 down, means no 150 .....

    14: Abu Dhabi: Actual: NZ winning by 4 runs. NZ 153 + 249, PAK 227 + 171
    GP Impact: NZ 153 + 249, PAK 427 + 26/0. PAK winning by 10 wickets

    Series result: Actual - NZ winning 2-1. GP Impact - PAK winning 2-0
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If I go back further, with GP impact, still that AUS series would have been 1-0 to PAK, and IRL series as well; but the ENG tour of 2018 would have turned 2-0 in favor of PAK (Poms won't have chased 245 in 4th innings on that track) and further back SRL would have lost 2-0, instead of winning 2-0 ....

    Have to say, incredible ........................

  20. #20
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    Don’t think PCB will spend that much money for batting coach. Our current MD is always go for cheap options. Plus there is huge amount of hatred for foreigners among our former bitter players.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Imagine what mind blow opportunities PCB & PCT is missing!!!! Just imagine the impact - say this guy Palmer was appointed 4 years back..... and then I apply the possibilities, where PAK's Test batting and subsequently result could have ended - let's start from latest to past, this is Sunday evening ...

    1. Southampton: Actual result - Draw. ENG 583/8 Dec. PAK 273 + 187/4
    GP impact: ENG 583/8 Dec. PAK 423 + and avoids follow-on - still draw

    2. Southampton: Actual result - Draw. PAK 236, ENG 114/4
    GP impact: PAK 350+ for 8 - still draw

    3. Manchester: PAK 326 + 169, ENG 219+ 277/7: ENG winning by 3 wickets
    GP impact: PAK 476 + 46/2, ENG 219 & Follow-on + ~300; PAK winning by 8 wickets

    Series Result: ENG winning 1-0- GP impact: PAK winning 1-0
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    4. R'Pindi: BD 233 + 168, PAK 445 - PAK win by innings & 44 runs
    GP impact: PAK winning by innings & 194 runs

    5. Karachi: PAK 191 + 555/3, SRL 271 + 212 - PAK win by 263 runs inside 4 days (5th morning)
    GP impact: PAK winning by 413 runs (I think, tail won't have got the chance to add 150 second tim)

    6. R'Pindi: SRL 308/6, PAK 252/2 - draw
    GP impact: still draw for wet field

    No change in either series result in any case
    --------------------------------------------------

    7. Adelaide: AUS win by innings and 48 runs with around 110 overs left in the game: AUS 589/3 Dec., PAK 302+ 239
    GP Impact: AUS 589/3 Dec., + say 135/3Dec., PAK 452 + 89/6 - Match draw
    Key here is, PAK avoiding follow-on means AUS would had to bat second time and I think, minimum they would have set is 270+, giving PAK 40 overs to bat in starting 35 minutes earlier than the start of "twilight zone"

    8. Brisbane: AUS winning by innings & 5 runs: PAK 240 + 335, AUS 580 ... again match ending with around 115 overs left inside 4 days
    GP Impact: PAK 390 + 485; AUS 580 & 105/6 - Draw. PAK batted at around 3.38 rate in that game, means extra 300 runs would have cost around 89 overs, leaving Aussies an impossible target of 295 to chase in like 29 overs.... I believe, they would have given a desperate try, hence 6 down before captains shaking hands

    Series result: AUS winning 2-0 batting twice and losing 13 wickets in total - GP impact: series draw and AUS having a scare in first Tests, PAK in second .... honors even at the end
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    9. J'burg: Actual - SAF winning by 107 runs inside 3.5 days with 155 overs left in the game: SAF 262 & 303, PAK 185 + 273
    GP impact: SAF 262 + 303, PAK 345 + 221/8 - PAK winning by 2 wickets

    10. Cape Town: Actual - SAF winning by 9 wickets inside 10 sessions. PAK 177 + 294, SAF 431 + 43/1
    GP Impact: PAK 327 + 444, SAF 431 + 256 - PAK winning by 84 runs.
    PAK batted around 3.9 rate in that game, so 300 runs would have cost around 75 overs, leaving SAF to chase 340 in 95 overs, with 15 overs with 2nd ball -I gave then 256 on Day 5 wicket.

    11. Centurion: Actual: SAF winning by 6 wickets inside 3 days (8 sessions). PAK: 181 + 190, SAF 223 + 151/4
    GP Impact: PAK 331 + 340, SAF 223 + 250 - PAK winning by 198 runs. Time wasn't a factor there and don't see SAF bettering 250 in 4th innings from 151/4

    Series result: Actual SAF winning 3-0, in total costing CSAF 15 sessions of gate & tv money
    GP Impact: PAK winning 3-0, carrying every game to 15th session.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    12. Abu Dhabi: Actual: NZ winning by 123 runs: NZ 274 + 353/7d, PAK 348 + 156
    GP Impact: NZ 272 + 153/4d, PAK 498. Game ended in last session with 23 overs left. At their scoring rate another 150 would have cost around 55 overs, means Kiwis would have got around 60 overs to survive - they were 152/4 after 55 overs in actual game ........ result: Draw

    13. Dubai: Actual - PAK winning by innings & 16 runs: PAK 416/5d, NZ 90 + 312 with more than 100 overs left
    GP impact: PAK winning by innings and 16 runs - they declared at 5 down, means no 150 .....

    14: Abu Dhabi: Actual: NZ winning by 4 runs. NZ 153 + 249, PAK 227 + 171
    GP Impact: NZ 153 + 249, PAK 427 + 26/0. PAK winning by 10 wickets

    Series result: Actual - NZ winning 2-1. GP Impact - PAK winning 2-0
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If I go back further, with GP impact, still that AUS series would have been 1-0 to PAK, and IRL series as well; but the ENG tour of 2018 would have turned 2-0 in favor of PAK (Poms won't have chased 245 in 4th innings on that track) and further back SRL would have lost 2-0, instead of winning 2-0 ....

    Have to say, incredible ........................
    Wow! How much free time do you have? Spending all that time and effort to come up with such a mindless post?!

    Is that really how you'd interpret what Junaids said? Oh Lord!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    Wow! How much free time do you have? Spending all that time and effort to come up with such a mindless post?!

    Is that really how you'd interpret what Junaids said? Oh Lord!
    I interpreted the way I understood, and I showed the impact of the interpretation- unfortunately it didnít touch your mind, I canít help much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    I interpreted the way I understood, and I showed the impact of the interpretation- unfortunately it didnít touch your mind, I canít help much.
    My friend you took a literal interpretation of 150 runs which I doubt that @Junaids meant. There is some quantifiable impact of having a certified batting coach such as Gary Palmer for U19s and Shaheens hence not sure why you are in a hurry to disprove the impact by looking up past results. Yes we would have either lost anyways or maybe itís too large of an improvement to put down to the coach but this is about whether there can potentially be a noticeable improvement in the future and the answer is yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    My friend you took a literal interpretation of 150 runs which I doubt that @Junaids meant. There is some quantifiable impact of having a certified batting coach such as Gary Palmer for U19s and Shaheens hence not sure why you are in a hurry to disprove the impact by looking up past results. Yes we would have either lost anyways or maybe itís too large of an improvement to put down to the coach but this is about whether there can potentially be a noticeable improvement in the future and the answer is yes.
    You are also caught in the trolling, really? I thought, you are trying to know this game.

    Donít focus on the 150 part, which got better of me - focus on this little section:

    ďMohammad Nawaz, Shadab Khan and Rohail Nazir probably have the basic skills that could be honed to take them to the point at which they could each average 40 as Test batsman/all-rounders.

    Even lower down the order, proper batting coaching could probably enable all five of Faheem Ashraf, Amad Butt, Hasan Ali, Zafar Gohar and Sajid Khan to average 25 with the bat in TestsĒ.

    I do know that Mo Nawaz has scored an ďincredibleĒ hundred in the latest round of the mega event - Quaid e Azam trophy, minus about 15-16 top bowlers, but still there is a limit..... I was just trying to keep the naive but ďpassionateĒ fans a little grounded, otherwise this thread would have reached third page by now. For a note, a guy named Wasim Akram ended 104 Test career with average under 23 with 4 Test hundreds including a double .... while only in PAK there are about 8 players I know who averaged below 40 in Test - letís start: Mazid, Sadique, Mushtaq, Wasim Raza, Amir Sohail, Asad Shafique, Haris Sohail, Imran Khan ..... if you increase your horizon you can add more names - Kim Hughes, Mike Atherton, Nasser Hussain, Carl Hooper, Mushfiqir Rahim, Karunaratne .......

    I do know what is noticeable improvement and what is day dreaming, donít worry.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    You are also caught in the trolling, really? I thought, you are trying to know this game.

    Don’t focus on the 150 part, which got better of me - focus on this little section:

    “Mohammad Nawaz, Shadab Khan and Rohail Nazir probably have the basic skills that could be honed to take them to the point at which they could each average 40 as Test batsman/all-rounders.

    Even lower down the order, proper batting coaching could probably enable all five of Faheem Ashraf, Amad Butt, Hasan Ali, Zafar Gohar and Sajid Khan to average 25 with the bat in Tests”.

    I do know that Mo Nawaz has scored an “incredible” hundred in the latest round of the mega event - Quaid e Azam trophy, minus about 15-16 top bowlers, but still there is a limit..... I was just trying to keep the naive but “passionate” fans a little grounded, otherwise this thread would have reached third page by now. For a note, a guy named Wasim Akram ended 104 Test career with average under 23 with 4 Test hundreds including a double .... while only in PAK there are about 8 players I know who averaged below 40 in Test - let’s start: Mazid, Sadique, Mushtaq, Wasim Raza, Amir Sohail, Asad Shafique, Haris Sohail, Imran Khan ..... if you increase your horizon you can add more names - Kim Hughes, Mike Atherton, Nasser Hussain, Carl Hooper, Mushfiqir Rahim, Karunaratne .......

    I do know what is noticeable improvement and what is day dreaming, don’t worry.
    Shadab has the ability to average around 40, not sure about Rohail and Nawaz

  26. #26
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    Gary Palmer working for PCB as batting coach either for NPC or PCT would be great and really help our players like techniques and judgement.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    You are also caught in the trolling, really? I thought, you are trying to know this game.

    Donít focus on the 150 part, which got better of me - focus on this little section:

    ďMohammad Nawaz, Shadab Khan and Rohail Nazir probably have the basic skills that could be honed to take them to the point at which they could each average 40 as Test batsman/all-rounders.

    Even lower down the order, proper batting coaching could probably enable all five of Faheem Ashraf, Amad Butt, Hasan Ali, Zafar Gohar and Sajid Khan to average 25 with the bat in TestsĒ.

    I do know that Mo Nawaz has scored an ďincredibleĒ hundred in the latest round of the mega event - Quaid e Azam trophy, minus about 15-16 top bowlers, but still there is a limit..... I was just trying to keep the naive but ďpassionateĒ fans a little grounded, otherwise this thread would have reached third page by now. For a note, a guy named Wasim Akram ended 104 Test career with average under 23 with 4 Test hundreds including a double .... while only in PAK there are about 8 players I know who averaged below 40 in Test - letís start: Mazid, Sadique, Mushtaq, Wasim Raza, Amir Sohail, Asad Shafique, Haris Sohail, Imran Khan ..... if you increase your horizon you can add more names - Kim Hughes, Mike Atherton, Nasser Hussain, Carl Hooper, Mushfiqir Rahim, Karunaratne .......

    I do know what is noticeable improvement and what is day dreaming, donít worry.
    Youíre right, I do not expect these folks to surpass the names you have listed of course. I am more interested in U19, U23 etc, upcoming folks like Abdullah Shafique, Haider Ali, Muhammad Hurairra, these guys can really benefit.

    Few rungs down and the names you listed, maybe avoiding to daydream, but even a hack like me can increase my average from 0 to 5 runs under proper guidance with some basic raw ingredients such as hand eye coordination and 2 hands to hold the bat. Maybe too late for Muhammad Nawaz, but this U19 guy Mubasir Khan is top wicket taker right now in domestic cricket and in the top 10 run scorers for U19 level. A trip to Gary Palmer rather than Mohammad Yousuf at this age can be the difference between Nathan Lyonís batting and Nawaz 2.0. Surely you see where I am going with this?
    Last edited by Thunderbolt14; 30th November 2020 at 21:40.

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    Abdullah Shafique has already worked with Gio Collusi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet Drive View Post
    Abdullah Shafique has already worked with Gio Collusi.
    Whos that? Is that why he's so technically correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ataullah View Post
    Whos that? Is that why he's so technically correct?
    Internationally renowned coach, has done some good work all around the world. Hired by Multan Sultans for Tareen Academy, where Shafique spent a lot of time in the nets.

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    A batting coach for the first team is not the answer. I really hate the modern setup whereby you have fielding, batting, bowling, spin bowling coach. To top it off you have the head coach. And the funny thing is that the quality of batsmen in 90's was still superior to what we see today when they only had a head coach.

    For Pakistan, all these type of coaches don't work at all. If you want batting coaches, you need to employ them at the U-13 and U-16 level. Even if Gary Palmer transforms Shan Masood to be as good as Justin Langer, when a newcomer from the domestic replaces Shan Masood in 5 years time he will be hopeless. So will you employ Gary Palmer again to teach this newcomer?

    You have to strengthen your feeder system. Right now the feeder system is horrible so focus on that. Any changes made to the first team setup is absolutely useless in the long run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Youíre right, I do not expect these folks to surpass the names you have listed of course. I am more interested in U19, U23 etc, upcoming folks like Abdullah Shafique, Haider Ali, Muhammad Hurairra, these guys can really benefit.

    Few rungs down and the names you listed, maybe avoiding to daydream, but even a hack like me can increase my average from 0 to 5 runs under proper guidance with some basic raw ingredients such as hand eye coordination and 2 hands to hold the bat. Maybe too late for Muhammad Nawaz, but this U19 guy Mubasir Khan is top wicket taker right now in domestic cricket and in the top 10 run scorers for U19 level. A trip to Gary Palmer rather than Mohammad Yousuf at this age can be the difference between Nathan Lyonís batting and Nawaz 2.0. Surely you see where I am going with this?
    I guess, you are new in PP - otherwise you could have read my essays, epics on how PAK can extract 35-40 extra runs from Amir, Yasir & Wahab; not to mention Hasan, who is a better batsman than Faheem. Particularly that guy Yasir - plays 7/8 Tests Max a year for his Cat A contract and regressed in his batting considerably; he should have been the guy with a decent batting base to build on and eventually average something like 18-19, if not 23-25 from his usual 10-12.

    Itís easier to extract few more runs from specialist bowlers than other way - thatís, it was possible to make a Test quality bowling all-rounder out of Amir, Yasir, Wahab or Hasan rather than other way - Shadab, Nawaz, Anwar Ali or Yamin. Because, improvement in penetrative bowling is the toughest job, rather than quick fixing tail-enderís batting - I decent defence can make whole world of changes.

    This is where the difference lies - every time Junaids try to sell the Test potential of ďall-roundersĒ like Faheem, Nawaz, Shadab ...... you know.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet Drive View Post
    Abdullah Shafique has already worked with Gio Collusi.
    Are you his agent if you donít mind me asking?

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    We definitely need a professional batting coach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Internationally renowned coach, has done some good work all around the world. Hired by Multan Sultans for Tareen Academy, where Shafique spent a lot of time in the nets.
    David Parsons, previously England Cricketís performance director and one-time spin bowling coach, and South African Gio Colussi, a specialist batting coach, are heading this instalment. Jonty Rhodes, Gareth Batty, Azhar Mahmood, Mushtaq Ahmed and Ian Pont have all been out here in recent times.

    Thats amazing from Tareen academy. Are u aware of the facilities here and what is lahore Qalandar's academy like compared to this?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Are you his agent if you don’t mind me asking?
    Nope.

    I just like to help young cricketers

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    Zeeshan Malik undertook a nine-hour bus ride just to be part of tareen academy. We need lads like him to be backed

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet Drive View Post
    Nope.

    I just like to help young cricketers
    Good stuff. Keep it going. I thought you might be representing him because you seem quite close to him

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataullah View Post
    Zeeshan Malik undertook a nine-hour bus ride just to be part of tareen academy. We need lads like him to be backed
    everyon says he has an attitude problem

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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Shadab has the ability to average around 40, not sure about Rohail and Nawaz
    That will be half way through to the famous quote of @Junaids, after Shadab's couple of PSL heroics with bat: "Shadab Khan has completed the career transition like Steve Smith ........."

    But, I have to say Junaids medicine is working if you are still "not sure" of a 12 average batsman converting into 40 average batsman.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataullah View Post
    David Parsons, previously England Cricketís performance director and one-time spin bowling coach, and South African Gio Colussi, a specialist batting coach, are heading this instalment. Jonty Rhodes, Gareth Batty, Azhar Mahmood, Mushtaq Ahmed and Ian Pont have all been out here in recent times.

    Thats amazing from Tareen academy. Are u aware of the facilities here and what is lahore Qalandar's academy like compared to this?
    Iíve read very good things from players who have participated. Itís also very open to lots of players, not just Multan Sultans. If I remember correctly Umer Khan worked here too. Currently U19 cricketers such as Faisal Akram, Mubashar Ali, and more worked here too. Youíll be surprised to know that Muhammad Ilyas has worked with Gio Collussi on batting and Collussi backs him as a future bowling all rounder.

    Also in addition to the coaches you mentioned, they also had Abdul Rehman. Regarding specific facilities, Iím not entirely sure.

    Qalandars academy is run by Aaqib Javed, and more focused on polishing uncut gems in Pakistan than scouting top talent. Thatís why you end up with folks like Muhammad Faizan who barely play. The model worked for Haris Rauf and Dilbar Hussain, but itís also forced them to carry a lot of baggage. Due to Aaqib being the only major coach, there is also not as much quality to the development process as there is at Tareen Academy, especially for batsmen.

    In my opinion, Tareen Academy is probably the best place in Pakistan to learn about batting with the presence of a lot of good batting knowledge. The fact that it probably doesnít even rank top 10 in the world compared to clubs in India, Australia, England, is one of my key beliefs about why Pakistan lags in batting talent. We need more centers with highly qualified batting coaches, not just one, who work with emerging batsmen between the ages of 12-21.

    Abdullah Shafique had a lot of natural talent but he has clearly benefited from these sessions in just 2 or so years (@Bullet Drive can correct me) of working with a good instructor. Thatís why he looked a decent prospect in U19 but now suddenly looks a class apart to other 20 year old batsmen. Obviously, he also had the necessary work ethic and good head on his shoulders to succeed.

    So in the meanwhile, until we have more centers crop up, Tareen Academy is a place to closely watch for emerging batsmen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    I guess, you are new in PP - otherwise you could have read my essays, epics on how PAK can extract 35-40 extra runs from Amir, Yasir & Wahab; not to mention Hasan, who is a better batsman than Faheem. Particularly that guy Yasir - plays 7/8 Tests Max a year for his Cat A contract and regressed in his batting considerably; he should have been the guy with a decent batting base to build on and eventually average something like 18-19, if not 23-25 from his usual 10-12.

    Itís easier to extract few more runs from specialist bowlers than other way - thatís, it was possible to make a Test quality bowling all-rounder out of Amir, Yasir, Wahab or Hasan rather than other way - Shadab, Nawaz, Anwar Ali or Yamin. Because, improvement in penetrative bowling is the toughest job, rather than quick fixing tail-enderís batting - I decent defence can make whole world of changes.

    This is where the difference lies - every time Junaids try to sell the Test potential of ďall-roundersĒ like Faheem, Nawaz, Shadab ...... you know.
    Indeed bhai. I agree.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    That will be half way through to the famous quote of @Junaids, after Shadab's couple of PSL heroics with bat: "Shadab Khan has completed the career transition like Steve Smith ........."

    But, I have to say Junaids medicine is working if you are still "not sure" of a 12 average batsman converting into 40 average batsman.
    Does he average 12 in test cricket?
    In just a hanfful of test, he has 3 impactful fifty's and two 40+ scores coming in late in the order in testing away conditions.
    So where is the "12 averaging and performed only in PSL" jibe coming from?
    Last edited by Pacy with wisdom; 1st December 2020 at 09:53.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacy with wisdom View Post
    Does he average 12 in test cricket?
    In just a hanfful of test, he has 3 impactful fifty's and two 40+ scores coming in late in the order in testing away conditions.
    So where is the "12 averaging and performed only in PSL" jibe coming from?
    Read carefully - there are other names in the post I was responding.

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    Ideally, the head coach should bring his own team or recommend the guys he would like to have.
    But with Misbah, we already have a novice coach. He may be passionate about coaching but it takes a lot of experience regarding coaching rather than just on strategic side in which he has good amount of experience through his captaincy stints in int and domestic cricket. The coach needs to run programs and identify how to take the team forward and shaping the team.

    We saw Mickey bringing Rixon with him, which worked extremely well for our fielding. Pretty sad that our board ruined it.

    I would like PCB to bring in some one like Paddy Upton or Paul Wiseman who could bring their guys.
    Wiseman has been integral to NZ cricket rise since 2014. Paddy Upton is pretty good with the technical side of the stuff.

    Regarding batting coach, I think we need a firm and disciplined guy with experience over modern coaching. No need to be a big ex player just someone with good work ethic, knowledge and methodology would do.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Read carefully - there are other names in the post I was responding.
    Shadab and Amad(to an extent) have a considerably higher ceiling apart from other allrounders we have I think. For someone with an average in mid 20s to go and average in 40s is extremely difficult. But I do believe Shadab has the potential to be a good enough batter to average in early 30s in Tests providing he works extremely hard in right direction with right people for that. Amad also has the "it" factor to become a better batter something Bilal Asif, Zafar Gohar, Hasan etc lack.

    I remember when Steve Smith started his Test career in 2010 as a spinner, he was already averaging 41 in FC cricket. After getting dropped, he worked on his batting so efficiently that he has now raised it by 21 points to 62 as of now. But that doesn't mean someone averaging 10 can average 31 as you need to have the batting potential to be worked upon.

    Michael Clarke when picked for his debut was averaging around 39 if I remember well and was picked over guys who had their averages in 50s, yet he ended his career with his average just a shade under 50 which is considered pretty elite.

    Kumar Sangakkara as we all know how phenomenal he turned out to be but was average in late 30s-early 40s as well before debut.

    So there have been exceptions. Just need work in the right direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyRabbit View Post
    Shadab and Amad(to an extent) have a considerably higher ceiling apart from other allrounders we have I think. For someone with an average in mid 20s to go and average in 40s is extremely difficult. But I do believe Shadab has the potential to be a good enough batter to average in early 30s in Tests providing he works extremely hard in right direction with right people for that. Amad also has the "it" factor to become a better batter something Bilal Asif, Zafar Gohar, Hasan etc lack.

    I remember when Steve Smith started his Test career in 2010 as a spinner, he was already averaging 41 in FC cricket. After getting dropped, he worked on his batting so efficiently that he has now raised it by 21 points to 62 as of now. But that doesn't mean someone averaging 10 can average 31 as you need to have the batting potential to be worked upon.

    Michael Clarke when picked for his debut was averaging around 39 if I remember well and was picked over guys who had their averages in 50s, yet he ended his career with his average just a shade under 50 which is considered pretty elite.

    Kumar Sangakkara as we all know how phenomenal he turned out to be but was average in late 30s-early 40s as well before debut.

    So there have been exceptions. Just need work in the right direction.
    Marvan Atapattu had 5 ducks and a single in his first 3 Tests ...... but he was a batsman, any one eyed, half blind, drunk could have seen that - his batting fundamentals were excellent even from U19 days. Whatmore worked on his batting, SRL had an excellent batting culture and good mentors in the team - so, he ended up with 5K+ runs as opener with average close to 45, which was a tremendous achievement for a Test opener playing between mid 90s to late 2000s - look at the new ball attacks he faced. Shadab can average 30+ in long run, he is already averaging better, but he has to improve his blowing for a long-term Test career.

    Mo Nawaz is beggars Imad Wasim, to say it politely ........

  48. #48
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    And here comes the Steve Smith example. No, Shadab cannot bat like Smith and will never be able to.

    Every time Shadabís batting potential is measured, people quickly bring Smith to the table to justify him. That is the level of cricket intelligence going around.

    @Junaids

    I know you are taking people for a ri......, but do you really think Nawaz is capable of averaging 40+ in NZ conditions against NZ bowlers?

    Have you checked the records of some of the top batsmen in the world in NZ in the last few years?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Marvan Atapattu had 5 ducks and a single in his first 3 Tests ...... but he was a batsman, any one eyed, half blind, drunk could have seen that - his batting fundamentals were excellent even from U19 days. Whatmore worked on his batting, SRL had an excellent batting culture and good mentors in the team - so, he ended up with 5K+ runs as opener with average close to 45, which was a tremendous achievement for a Test opener playing between mid 90s to late 2000s - look at the new ball attacks he faced. Shadab can average 30+ in long run, he is already averaging better, but he has to improve his blowing for a long-term Test career.

    Mo Nawaz is beggars Imad Wasim, to say it politely ........
    SL has always had a good coaching culture. Even back in 2003, they got Tom Moody till 2007 WC and then Bayliss till 2011WC.
    Their players respond really well with coaches as well.

    Shadab yes definitely needs to improve his primary discipline first up. From what I saw in England, he was bowling way too full to be threatening in Tests. Probably that could have been down to rust but he definitely needs a lot of work.

    Don't think anyone in Pak rates Nawaz for his batting ability. His bowling is decent, but his batting is awful. Imad is actually a very tough nut and knows his game inside out. If tried as a batter in Tests, he could probably manage to average around 40 though but with the ball he would be toothless.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    And here comes the Steve Smith example. No, Shadab cannot bat like Smith and will never be able to.

    Every time Shadab’s batting potential is measured, people quickly bring Smith to the table to justify him. That is the level of cricket intelligence going around.

    @Junaids

    I know you are taking people for a ri......, but do you really think Nawaz is capable of averaging 40+ in NZ conditions against NZ bowlers?

    Have you checked the records of some of the top batsmen in the world in NZ in the last few years?
    Have you even read my post fully regarding Steve Smith example? I clearly stated with improvement, Shadab could average in early 30s if he works hard. Never knew Smith averages 30 in Tests. Just stated that by hard work, cricketers can average higher than their "FC batting average"

    Don't really know what you smoke(my guess is same brand of weed majority of Afghani fans do) but I would definitely not want any of it.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyRabbit View Post
    Have you even read my post fully regarding Steve Smith example? I clearly stated with improvement, Shadab could average in early 30s if he works hard. Never knew Smith averages 30 in Tests. Just stated that by hard work, cricketers can average higher than their "FC batting average"

    Don't really know what you smoke(my guess is same brand of weed majority of Afghani fans do) but I would definitely not want any of it.
    Yes you have made a groundbreaking discovery by stating something that no one else could have ever thought.

    ďPlayers can average higher than their FC average if they work hard.Ē

    That is incredible. Speaking of smoking, you be smoking really high quality stuff that has helped you come across such a brilliant epiphany.

    Unfortunately the weed that I import from Afghanistan does not help me produce such brilliant ideas and thoughts.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yes you have made a groundbreaking discovery by stating something that no one else could have ever thought.

    “Players can average higher than their FC average if they work hard.”

    That is incredible. Speaking of smoking, you be smoking really high quality stuff that has helped you come across such a brilliant epiphany.

    Unfortunately the weed that I import from Afghanistan does not help me produce such brilliant ideas and thoughts.
    I guess it was incredible enough for a random poster to snuff his nose in and twist it in god knows whichever way.

    PS the weed you import definitely gives you the anti pak/pro india behavior that afghanistan is famous for.

  53. #53
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    With yusuf working at HPC and younis batting coach for pakistan is very unlikely pakistan will hire any other coach for atleast another 1/2 years


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