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  1. #1
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    We are witnessing the greatest era in Test cricket!

    Those crying about the dinosaurs of yesteryear can jump off a cliff for all I care. NZ tour of UAE, India tour of Australia, SL tour of SA and now the 2019 ashes. What an era to be alive.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  2. #2
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    There is no out and out best team like of yesteryears so from fans perspective this is one of the best era.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_gamer007 View Post
    There is no out and out best team like of yesteryears so from fans perspective this is one of the best era.
    The thing is all these high quality series have happened one after the other. Great time for test match fans.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Those crying about the dinosaurs of yesteryear can jump off a cliff for all I care. NZ tour of UAE, India tour of Australia, SL tour of SA and now the 2019 ashes. What an era to be alive.
    Thank you Nikhil.

    I joined PakPassion, so I wouldn't be exposed to the delusions from what I call are the "Old Era Hype Brigade".

    Unfortunately there are a couple of them on here and one of them (just a few mins ago) claims Fred Trueman is superior to any other English cricketer

    Like seriously you cannot compare a player from the inferior amateur era to those who've played within the last 50 years of the professional era.
    Last edited by topspin; 25th August 2019 at 21:33.

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    Shame Pakistan aren't contributing much to it.

    Need to sack this incompetent Sarfraz and get us competing again with the best.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Shame Pakistan aren't contributing much to it.

    Need to sack this incompetent Sarfraz and get us competing again with the best.
    Pakistan has contributed the most to it.

    In the past tests in faisalabad were a joke. Inzi didnt know how to get results.

    When we moved to UAE and adopted a 2 full time spinner role, we made matches damn interesting.

    Matches looking as if they would draw out in 4 days and then bammm. Day 5 wicket is unplayable, you end up defending scores of 150 or 200 by attacking with 2 spinners.

    Pakistan made cricket interesting by spinners. We even opened bowling with a spinner in test aswell.


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Shame Pakistan aren't contributing much to it.

    Need to sack this incompetent Sarfraz and get us competing again with the best.
    Pakistan in England last 2 times have been great series to watch for neutrals.

    They play in UAE which is one of the most boring places to play test cricket. SL and WI are the only two other countries which are worse.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Thank you Nikhil.

    I joined PakPassion, so I wouldn't be exposed to the delusions from what I call are the "Old Era Hype Brigade".

    Unfortunately there are a couple of them on here and one of them (just a few mins ago) claims Fred Trueman is superior to any other English cricketer

    Like seriously you cannot compare a player from the inferior amateur era to those who've played within the last 50 years of the professional era.
    Agree completely bro. Some folks don't appreciate the present enough. They'd rather talk about how Frank Tyson bowled at 190 kph to brave gladiators who faced them sans helmets because of superior batting technique


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Thank you Nikhil.

    I joined PakPassion, so I wouldn't be exposed to the delusions from what I call are the "Old Era Hype Brigade".

    Unfortunately there are a couple of them on here and one of them (just a few mins ago) claims Fred Trueman is superior to any other English cricketer

    Like seriously you cannot compare a player from the inferior amateur era to those who've played within the last 50 years of the professional era.
    Certainly superior to any England fast bowler. Truman was a professional. There were very few amateurs left by the 1950s.

    The current England batting line, bar Root and Stokes is certainly the weakest ever.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Agree completely bro. Some folks don't appreciate the present enough. They'd rather talk about how Frank Tyson bowled at 190 kph to brave gladiators who faced them sans helmets because of superior batting technique
    One can appreciate the present without disrespecting history.

    Batters get hit a lot more often these days because helmets give them a false sense of security.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    One can appreciate the present without disrespecting history.

    Batters get hit a lot more often these days because helmets give them a false sense of security.
    And this is exactly what I'm talking about. Bowlers, on average, are bowling quicker than they have in test cricket. That's why batsmen are getting hit.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Certainly superior to any England fast bowler. Truman was a professional. There were very few amateurs left by the 1950s.

    The current England batting line, bar Root and Stokes is certainly the weakest ever.
    Bairstow and Buttler are also class.

    The problem lies in England’s openers and Joe Denley in this batting line-up, so it’s hardly the “weakest ever”.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    And this is exactly what I'm talking about. Bowlers, on average, are bowling quicker than they have in test cricket. That's why batsmen are getting hit.
    Disagree. There have always been bowlers quick enough to cause concussion and detached retinas and broken bones. Modern batsmen get hit more often because they don't know how to bob and weave as well as their grandfathers. They grow up playing on covered wickets with true bounce.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Bairstow and Buttler are also class.

    The problem lies in England’s openers and Joe Denley in this batting line-up, so it’s hardly the “weakest ever”.
    Tell me which one is weaker, then.

  15. #15
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    As far as test cricket goes this is the era of mediocrity with a few flash in the pan viewing, batting line ups are all average to bordering on laughable, no real match winning spinners, fast bowlers who hardly last a test match let alone a series, for me this is the weakest era of test cricket I've seen

  16. #16
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    Won't say about the quality of the cricket, but definitely entertaining - most games are ending in direct results, lots of close games and teams are playing for a direct result rather than trying to bail out a draw. Also, decline in defensive techniques have contributed in that as well - but that probably is normalized for collective decline (That's bowling, batting, keeping & catching quality has declined as a whole making it a balanced situation).

    The biggest credit I'll give to ICC big time, that they have tried their best to ensure Test matches are played for 450 overs, which has contributed to this excitement lot. Bringing technology has also helped ensuring the duration of play. In recent times, we have seen 3 exciting Test matches - 2nd & 3rd Ashes Test, and the SRL-NZ 1st Test; the 2nd one also can end in a thriller, even if it ends in draw. Under the conditions these games were completed, I can bet just about 25 years back, all 4 would have been boring draws with 3 innings played - partially for weather intervention and partially for teams (lagging behind after 1st innings), wasting time.
    Last edited by MMHS; 26th August 2019 at 00:17.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Disagree. There have always been bowlers quick enough to cause concussion and detached retinas and broken bones. Modern batsmen get hit more often because they don't know how to bob and weave as well as their grandfathers. They grow up playing on covered wickets with true bounce.
    Agree there is no swaying out of the way with helmets batters have got lazy.
    Bowlers are not bowling much faster than in history. Its just poor technique

  18. #18
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    In terms of quality itís a debatable one, but purely in terms of entertainment itís amazing at the moment.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Tell me which one is weaker, then.
    After Graham Gooch, the 90s was weaker, before they found Atherton and Vaughan.

    All the England batting line-ups from the amateur era were weaker as well.

  20. #20
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    Greatest era in Test cricket? I strongly disagree.

    Test was much more fun in the 90's and early-2000's.

    I wasn't born in the 80's but I read that those days were good too.


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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Shame Pakistan aren't contributing much to it.

    Need to sack this incompetent Sarfraz and get us competing again with the best.
    We are contributing to it by allowing heists like the last day by NZ vs us in UAE, and by Australia in Melbourne on the last day.

  22. #22
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    In terms of quality previous decades were better, but a lot of close matches happening these days so thats a plus.

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    This is a entertaining era of test cricket. Can’t believe people disagree with this. Also people saying it isn’t high quality are wrong lol. Stokes innings yesterday was not quality? Australia bowling against England wasn’t quality?

    Loving test cricket right now.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    After Graham Gooch, the 90s was weaker, before they found Atherton and Vaughan.

    All the England batting line-ups from the amateur era were weaker as well.
    Atherton opened with Gooch. They also had Robin Smith, Stewart and Thorpe who would walk into the current side.

    When was “the amateur era” ? There have always been professional cricketers, and even the Graces of the nineteenth century found a way to get paid to play cricket despite being of independent wealth.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Atherton opened with Gooch. They also had Robin Smith, Stewart and Thorpe who would walk into the current side.

    When was “the amateur era” ? There have always been professional cricketers, and even the Graces of the nineteenth century found a way to get paid to play cricket despite being of independent wealth.
    Jack hobbs played his last international test when he was 48 now tell me how can a player play till age of 48 unless the bowling is of very low quality.
    And thats not it, there are many other players who played till 40+, the only plausible explanation is that they faced slow pace bowlers. I dontthink anybody in modern test cricket can survive after the age of 45.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Jack hobbs played his last international test when he was 48 now tell me how can a player play till age of 48 unless the bowling is of very low quality.
    And thats not it, there are many other players who played till 40+, the only plausible explanation is that they faced slow pace bowlers. I dontthink anybody in modern test cricket can survive after the age of 45.
    Most players in the modern game would struggle to get to 40 tbh. Usually retirement comes between 34 and 39.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Jack hobbs played his last international test when he was 48 now tell me how can a player play till age of 48 unless the bowling is of very low quality.
    And thats not it, there are many other players who played till 40+, the only plausible explanation is that they faced slow pace bowlers. I dontthink anybody in modern test cricket can survive after the age of 45.
    Because Sir Jack was a brilliant technician rather than reliant on his eyes, at a guess. He certainly faced plenty of good spinners such as Grimmett and OíReilly, and was the first to understand how to overcome the challenge of the newly invented swing bowling.

    Close faced Roberts and Holding in tests at age 45.

    Boycott carried on to age 45 facing Hadlee, Imran, Holding and Marshall for Yorkshire. His output declined but he kept hitting centuries up to his career end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Atherton opened with Gooch. They also had Robin Smith, Stewart and Thorpe who would walk into the current side.

    When was “the amateur era” ? There have always been professional cricketers, and even the Graces of the nineteenth century found a way to get paid to play cricket despite being of independent wealth.
    I meant to say Trescothick and Vaughan.

    The teams between Gooch's career and the arrival of the above were weaker than the current England batting line-up, as evident by the side's low rankings.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Because Sir Jack was a brilliant technician rather than reliant on his eyes, at a guess. He certainly faced plenty of good spinners such as Grimmett and O’Reilly, and was the first to understand how to overcome the challenge of the newly invented swing bowling.

    Close faced Roberts and Holding in tests at age 45.

    Boycott carried on to age 45 facing Hadlee, Imran, Holding and Marshall for Yorkshire. His output declined but he kept hitting centuries up to his career end.


    This is where you've shot yourself in the foot. The technique shown above is clearly amateurish, even worse than a bum like Joe Denley, but somehow he's a "brilliant technician"

  30. #30
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    Hobbs with his 1900s technique wouldnít even be a number 11 today. I have no doubt in my mind that Jack Leach is a vastly superior batsman than him.

    However, what Hobbs achieved in his era cannot be undermined. In spite of the obviously low standard of cricket, he must have possessed certain mental and physical abilities that allowed him to tower over most of the other players of his time.

    That is something that we must respect and acknowledge. Yes their techniques and bowling speeds look funny from the perspective of modern cricket, but all these players contributed to the evolution of the game.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post

    This is where you've shot yourself in the foot. The technique shown above is clearly amateurish, even worse than a bum like Joe Denley, but somehow he's a "brilliant technician"
    What you are saying here is that the Bentley V8 than won Le Mans in 1930 was technically rubbish because it is slower than modern F1 cars. Yet modern race car design is built on it. That Spitfires were terrible because the F-22 outperforms them. Yet the learnings about aerodynamics made by Mitchell was fundamental to the knowledge that helped build the F-22. That Newton was rubbish because he didnít discover quarks and leptons. That Beethoven was rubbish because he didnít use synthesisers and digital downloads. And so on.

    No. It is you who makes a bloomer. Hobbsí technique was clearly professional as Hobbs was a professional and the best batsman in the world at the time. He was also the first to learn how to play the devastating new googlies. He was the first to start hitting lots of fours to leg as well as off, countering the new googlies and the new inswing. All modern batting stands on his shoulders, and Ranjiís. These guys were massive in the development of how the sport is played.
    Last edited by Robert; 28th August 2019 at 20:35.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post


    This is where you've shot yourself in the foot. The technique shown above is clearly amateurish, even worse than a bum like Joe Denley, but somehow he's a "brilliant technician"
    I'm not a fan of the oldies and am often averse to ranking players from the early 20th century too high, or even those from the later decades up till the 60s, where I believe modern cricket started to emerge. Having said that, a single video of one of the games true greats (per era), that is about 3 minutes long and is clearly designed for coaching rather than real time play does not mean that he has a bad technique. To label it amateurish is boorish to say the least.

    On top of all that, batsmen with "bad" or "limited" techniques, things that are not in the textbook or pleasing to the idea does not mean that they are bad batsmen. To watch Smith is to look at someone who even struggled to maintain his stance at the crease, or to strike the ball in a text book manner but he is arguably the best test batsman on the planet. The same may be said of Border before him, or of the very limited but successful Samaraweera.

    There are countless other examples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    What you are saying here is that the Bentley V8 than won Le Mans in 1930 was technically rubbish because it is slower than modern F1 cars. Yet modern race car design is built on it. That Spitfires were terrible because the F-22 outperforms them. Yet the learnings about aerodynamics made by Mitchell was fundamental to the knowledge that helped build the F-22. That Newton was rubbish because he didn’t discover quarks and leptons. That Beethoven was rubbish because he didn’t use synthesisers and digital downloads. And so on.

    No. It is you who makes a bloomer. Hobbs’ technique was clearly professional as Hobbs was a professional and the best batsman in the world at the time. He was also the first to learn how to play the devastating new googlies. He was the first to start hitting lots of fours to leg as well as off, countering the new googlies and the new inswing. All modern batting stands on his shoulders, and Ranji’s. These guys were massive in the development of how the sport is played.
    Clutching at straws as usual, but I do respect their contributions to cricket which has allowed the game to evolve to what it is today.

    You made a claim that England's current test batting line-up is the worst ever, but that is inaccurate because the England teams from the amateur era were far inferior and that is very much is evident from the disparity of their overall technical abilities.

    This is why there should be two ATG XIs, one for the amateur era and another for the modern era i.e. for the professional cricketers. However, if that is not feasible then we should disregard the former as they were far less skilled.

    In England (and maybe Australia), if you don't vouch for the older era player you're viewed as the anti-establishment of the society. This has obviously been drilled into you from a very young age.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 29th August 2019 at 20:50.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Clutching at straws as usual, but I do respect their contributions to cricket which has allowed the game to evolve to what it is today.

    You made a claim that England's current test batting line-up is the worst ever, but that is inaccurate because the England teams from the amateur era were far inferior and that is very much is evident from the disparity of their overall technical abilities.

    This is why there should be two ATG XIs, one for the amateur era and another for the modern era i.e. for the professional cricketers. However, if that is not feasible then we should disregard the former as they were far less skilled.

    In England (and maybe Australia), if you don't vouch for the older era player you're viewed as the anti-establishment of the society. This has obviously been drilled into you from a very young age.
    Hobbs was a professional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    This is a entertaining era of test cricket. Can’t believe people disagree with this. Also people saying it isn’t high quality are wrong lol. Stokes innings yesterday was not quality? Australia bowling against England wasn’t quality?

    Loving test cricket right now.
    Nope, because it's played in 2019 and not pre 1980. So it lacks quality

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    Horrific Technics, most test batsmen struggle to play Spin or swing/seam with any sort of real quality.

    Current era is exciting due to poor skill level of payers and standard dropping. Certainly not best era in terms of quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    Horrific Technics, most test batsmen struggle to play Spin or swing/seam with any sort of real quality.

    Current era is exciting due to poor skill level of payers and standard dropping. Certainly not best era in terms of quality.
    100% right there

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    I am sure neutral fans would prefer watching Ashes Cricket than Bhel Puri Leagues.

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    Yep, cant beat the ashes, I've been glued to it since 87 in Australia, I grew up in north lancashire and witnessed world class test professionals in the lancashire league at our club Burnley cc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    I am sure neutral fans would prefer watching Ashes Cricket than Bhel Puri Leagues.
    Bhel Puri leagues lmao


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    Quote Originally Posted by big_gamer007 View Post
    Nope, because it's played in 2019 and not pre 1980. So it lacks quality
    Everyone talks about how good the bowling was in those days , but yet no one talks about how fielding standards and techniques have gone up.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    Horrific Technics, most test batsmen struggle to play Spin or swing/seam with any sort of real quality.

    Current era is exciting due to poor skill level of payers and standard dropping. Certainly not best era in terms of quality.
    This. Indians and Aussies canít play swing. English canít play spin or pace.

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    Only test cricket in England, SA and NZ are fun watching as the wickets and weather in countries make it unpredictable. Asian conditions its boring cricket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    Horrific Technics, most test batsmen struggle to play Spin or swing/seam with any sort of real quality.

    Current era is exciting due to poor skill level of payers and standard dropping. Certainly not best era in terms of quality.
    Current batsmen with their horrible techniques have managed to score two of the greatest test knocks in test history over the last few months.

    There is no convincing the nostalgia gang.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Ball View Post
    Current batsmen with their horrible techniques have managed to score two of the greatest test knocks in test history over the last few months.

    There is no convincing the nostalgia gang.
    Spot on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    This. Indians and Aussies canít play swing. English canít play spin or pace.
    one Aussie was enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Ball View Post
    Current batsmen with their horrible techniques have managed to score two of the greatest test knocks in test history over the last few months.

    There is no convincing the nostalgia gang.
    Well, if you are going to take a minute sample, I will argue that the last fifteen years have been rubbish because nobody has scored 400.

    I presume you refer to Stokes. His technique is pretty correct but he still only averages 36 in an era of flat decks.

    To whom else do you refer?

  48. #48
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    Modern day test cricket is definitely the most exciting, but it is true that technique against the short ball is not as good as it was in the 80s and this is because of helmets and not because of pace of bowlers. The pace of bowlers in the 70s and 80s was the same as now.

    Batsmen don't try to get their head out the way of the ball before hitting it these days due to helmets, so if they miss it, it hits them on the head. This technique could not be used in the 80s otherwise everyone would be horribly concussed.

    The bowlers of the 80s bowled on wickets which had more assistance, the good bowlers of the modern era have found ways to get wickets on more flat decks.

    A cricketer of the 80s wouldn't mind a draw, but a cricketer of the 2010's wants results, that's one of the main differences. Batsmen are more attacking and that opens up opportunities for the bowlers to take wickets.

    A modern team has a wider spectrum of batting types. They will always have a defensive save the test match type guy, and also the attacking batsman. Teams of the 80s had a smaller spectrum and the odd batsman would be aggressive, like Sir Viv.

    Bowlers of the modern era analyse better, they look for technical flaws, plan to them and bowl accordingly. 80s bowlers would have done the same, but to a lesser extent (of course technology helps with that).

    I admit the batting techniques of the time of Jack Hobbs were inferior and odd looking, but they were the foundation of modern technique, that technique was good enough to counter the bowlers of that time, they didn't need our technique and it wouldn't work on the uncovered pitches of that era.

    The players of every era adapt to what is needed in that era. Modern technique wouldn't work in the 80s and the 80s technique wouldn't work now. The bowlers of the 80s would have found it difficult to cope with dead pitches. However, greats of the game have the ability to adapt to every era, every situation and all conditions.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Well, if you are going to take a minute sample, I will argue that the last fifteen years have been rubbish because nobody has scored 400.

    I presume you refer to Stokes. His technique is pretty correct but he still only averages 36 in an era of flat decks.

    To whom else do you refer?
    Or I could say pitches in West Indies are not flat enough nowadays for batsmen to score 400* on Antigua airports. That would be true, too if you have followed any tests in West Indies in recent years.

    The other innings I was talking about was Kusal Perera's innings. In my opinion, that was the best innings in test history without a shadow of doubt. A chanceless fourth innings masterpiece against one of the best attacks around to win an Asian team their first ever test series in SA. Ben Stokes innings would surely be in the top 5 as well.

    But of course, batsmen nowadays cant deal with swing the way batsmen with pedestrian technique of the yesteryear could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Ball View Post
    Or I could say pitches in West Indies are not flat enough nowadays for batsmen to score 400* on Antigua airports. That would be true, too if you have followed any tests in West Indies in recent years.

    The other innings I was talking about was Kusal Perera's innings. In my opinion, that was the best innings in test history without a shadow of doubt. A chanceless fourth innings masterpiece against one of the best attacks around to win an Asian team their first ever test series in SA. Ben Stokes innings would surely be in the top 5 as well.

    But of course, batsmen nowadays cant deal with swing the way batsmen with pedestrian technique of the yesteryear could.
    Let's stick to the point. You have a vanishingly small statistical sample to base your assertion on. Perera's innings wasn't the best in history, it is simply the best you have watched. Stokes's innings is not even in the top five of test innings I have seen and I can only go back as far as the early eighties. It might not even be in the top five England innings I have seen, though it would be in my top ten.


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