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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy0204 View Post
    That's the reason Iam critical of Sachin because of his fan boys as you can see just above your posts someone threw tantrum.
    What has a playerís ability or performance got to do with how his fans conduct themselves? This is absurd.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    What has a player’s ability or performance got to do with how his fans conduct themselves? This is absurd.
    I already rated him as a batsman but sometimes I feel he is overrated after 2000's,its my opinion.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy0204 View Post
    I already rated him as a batsman but sometimes I feel he is overrated after 2000's,its my opinion.
    He wasnít at his flamboyant best from 2004 till mid 2007 due to his injuries and had to cut down on a lot of strokes from his arsenal.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    Sachin never gave you assurance because you are a kid who was probably born in '00s, so save me from your sermons.

    Yeah, having a bowling lineup of Prasads, Mohantis, Srinaths, Zaheers is same as having a bowling lineup of Cummins, Hazelwood, Johnson and Starc.

    Clutch innings against Jimmy less England?

    Cheating has nothing to do with batting? Azhar was a mighty fine batsmen, let's ignore he was a bloody cheat.

    Under Smith, cheating had taken a systematic shape, makes him one of the biggest cheats the game of cricket has ever seen.

    I pity teams which were hard done by Smith's cheating ways.
    Is Smith a worse batter and less likely to get a big total because of his cheating. I have no issues with you not putting him in an ATG XI, but to say he is a lesser batsmen is not valid. Sachin never scored more than 500 in a series. He was not the team-carrying force that Smith is. Smith scored 500 in a series in both India and England when he was the only reason Australia were competitive

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    From averaging 62 to almost 70.
    Well since he became a specialist...

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    look cheating or not he is one of the best ever. Sachin carried a far weaker team in the 90s with a terrible bowling unit to support him.

    You have to factor in the bowling strength to justify a batsman's average as well. If bowlers take the pressure off you by bowling out opposition cheaply then it allows your batsmen to be less tired when they proceed to bat. It's hard to quantify the effect but I can understand why people rate sachin over smith.

    The issue I have sachin is he never averaged 60 plus even post 2003 when india had a strong side. Hence I rate smith more but in saying that yes he is most certainly cheater without a question. Unless he was given lives while batting and there is o back that claim he will still be the best ever.
    Sachin was no where near as good as carrying as SMith is. That indian team didn't win away from home

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentkiller187 View Post
    ďShoaib Malik is a much better batsmen than Steven smith when it comes to playing spinĒ -yuzvendra Chahal..

    Think that settles it guys.
    It settles it that Chahal is an idiot. Smith is arguably the best batsmen in the world against spin atm. Only Rohit, Mayank compete. He is way better than Kohli (see 2017 series)

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Sachin was no where near as good as carrying as SMith is. That indian team didn't win away from home
    thats why I said smith is the best ever for me?
    cheating or not.
    there is no evidence to suggest that smith was given lives so until someone proves to me that he cheated whilst batting then he will forever remain the best ever. Not the best. Best ever. Better than bradman who was an amateur. I don't include amateur era greats.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    thats why I said smith is the best ever for me?
    cheating or not.
    there is no evidence to suggest that smith was given lives so until someone proves to me that he cheated whilst batting then he will forever remain the best ever. Not the best. Best ever. Better than bradman who was an amateur. I don't include amateur era greats.
    ok sorry misread your post apologies

  10. #170
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    It's a very sad story, isn't it?

    Steven Smith is a cricket tragic - like Marnus Labuschagne - who through insanely hard work and repetition made himself into a top class batsman.

    When I went on the ill-fated Australian tour to South Africa in 2017-18 I realized that Smith is superb but just not quite in the highest category - it was plain for all to see that AB De Villiers was simply better than him.

    Smith reminded me of football players like Kevin Keegan and Jean-Pierre Papin - guys who did not have an extraordinary talent but who worked so hard that they became top class players, but who when they reached the World Cup or the Euros where the more gifted players had prepared hard too they just couldn't have the same impact.

    Diego Maradona would basically cruise at half-effort until a World Cup year, when suddenly he ensured that he was as fit as Papin and as highly-trained. And suddenly you realized that even though Papin had outscored him for the last 3 years, it was Maradona who was the best.

    A similar story played out with Alan Shearer and the original Ronaldo. Shearer was fitter and he trained harder, and year in year out he performed better. And then you would get to World Cup year, and Ronaldo would train as hard as Shearer, and be a more decisive factor.

    Of course the really sad thing with Steve Smith is that like most batsmen, his time came and a truly fast bowler - Jofra Archer - hit him. But let's be frank - Smith has never been the same since, has he? He is a little bit rattled and has not worked out how to play the short ball.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    It's a very sad story, isn't it?

    Steven Smith is a cricket tragic - like Marnus Labuschagne - who through insanely hard work and repetition made himself into a top class batsman.

    When I went on the ill-fated Australian tour to South Africa in 2017-18 I realized that Smith is superb but just not quite in the highest category - it was plain for all to see that AB De Villiers was simply better than him.

    Smith reminded me of football players like Kevin Keegan and Jean-Pierre Papin - guys who did not have an extraordinary talent but who worked so hard that they became top class players, but who when they reached the World Cup or the Euros where the more gifted players had prepared hard too they just couldn't have the same impact.

    Diego Maradona would basically cruise at half-effort until a World Cup year, when suddenly he ensured that he was as fit as Papin and as highly-trained. And suddenly you realized that even though Papin had outscored him for the last 3 years, it was Maradona who was the best.

    A similar story played out with Alan Shearer and the original Ronaldo. Shearer was fitter and he trained harder, and year in year out he performed better. And then you would get to World Cup year, and Ronaldo would train as hard as Shearer, and be a more decisive factor.

    Of course the really sad thing with Steve Smith is that like most batsmen, his time came and a truly fast bowler - Jofra Archer - hit him. But let's be frank - Smith has never been the same since, has he? He is a little bit rattled and has not worked out how to play the short ball.


    Smith was extremely tired coming off a long, difficult home series vs England. Smith's performances around the world have been significantly better than ABdV. Smith has shown himself to be better in the big stage, like vs India, England and in WC knockouts, so your Maradona comment in false as Smith is the best big match player in the world. Where did you rank Sachin who did not stand up?

    Smith got hit by a fast bowler bowling a brilliant spell on a variable pitch. Smith then went and played two absolutely brilliant innings in the 4th test. In the home series vs NZ smith faced a lot of short balls before getting out. NZ subdued Smith rather than getting him out, tiring their own bowlers so the other batsmen could run wild. Any normal bowler, other than Wagner could not have bowled as many short balls.

    Smith is the clutchest batsmen since Bradman. Saying he is not the best is stupidity
    Last edited by therealAB; 1st May 2020 at 06:52.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Sachin was no where near as good as carrying as SMith is. That indian team didn't win away from home
    Then you donít know enough about Tendulkarís Houdini acts. Educate yourself about Ď90s and the level of bowling and how far ahead Tendulkar was of his peers.

    That Indian team didnít win enough as it always had a popgun attack, at least in away tests and you need to take 20 wickets to win a test, more often than not.

    Is it that difficult to grasp?

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Smith was extremely tired coming off a long, difficult home series vs England. Smith's performances around the world have been significantly better than ABdV. Smith has shown himself to be better in the big stage, like vs India, England and in WC knockouts, so your Maradona comment in false as Smith is the best big match player in the world. Where did you rank Sachin who did not stand up?

    Smith got hit by a fast bowler bowling a brilliant spell on a variable pitch. Smith then went and played two absolutely brilliant innings in the 4th test. In the home series vs NZ smith faced a lot of short balls before getting out. NZ subdued Smith rather than getting him out, tiring their own bowlers so the other batsmen could run wild. Any normal bowler, other than Wagner could not have bowled as many short balls.

    Smith is the clutchest batsmen since Bradman. Saying he is not the best is stupidity
    After the Ashes and before the Kiwis arrived, Smith played two proper matches in 10 weeks (against Pakistan) and scored 4 and 36.

    He then played three Tests against the Kiwis at home and had a top score of 85 in 3 Tests as he was consistently and repeatedly bounced out.

    He did really well with a whacky technique until he got hit. And has never looked the same since.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    It's a very sad story, isn't it?

    Steven Smith is a cricket tragic - like Marnus Labuschagne - who through insanely hard work and repetition made himself into a top class batsman.

    When I went on the ill-fated Australian tour to South Africa in 2017-18 I realized that Smith is superb but just not quite in the highest category - it was plain for all to see that AB De Villiers was simply better than him.

    Smith reminded me of football players like Kevin Keegan and Jean-Pierre Papin - guys who did not have an extraordinary talent but who worked so hard that they became top class players, but who when they reached the World Cup or the Euros where the more gifted players had prepared hard too they just couldn't have the same impact.

    Diego Maradona would basically cruise at half-effort until a World Cup year, when suddenly he ensured that he was as fit as Papin and as highly-trained. And suddenly you realized that even though Papin had outscored him for the last 3 years, it was Maradona who was the best.

    A similar story played out with Alan Shearer and the original Ronaldo. Shearer was fitter and he trained harder, and year in year out he performed better. And then you would get to World Cup year, and Ronaldo would train as hard as Shearer, and be a more decisive factor.

    Of course the really sad thing with Steve Smith is that like most batsmen, his time came and a truly fast bowler - Jofra Archer - hit him. But let's be frank - Smith has never been the same since, has he? He is a little bit rattled and has not worked out how to play the short ball.
    I agree. Smith and Kohli are simply not in the same class as AB de Villiers. That is the highest class and only Lara and Tendulkar belongs there.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    Sachin never gave you assurance because you are a kid who was probably born in '00s, so save me from your sermons.

    Yeah, having a bowling lineup of Prasads, Mohantis, Srinaths, Zaheers is same as having a bowling lineup of Cummins, Hazelwood, Johnson and Starc.

    Clutch innings against Jimmy less England?

    Cheating has nothing to do with batting? Azhar was a mighty fine batsmen, let's ignore he was a bloody cheat.

    Under Smith, cheating had taken a systematic shape, makes him one of the biggest cheats the game of cricket has ever seen.

    I pity teams which were hard done by Smith's cheating ways.
    First of all i have seen sachin throughout the 2000s and if you remove your tinted glasses you will also realise that sachin was more about maintaining a consistent average instead of going for the kill.
    Sachin never scored 500+in a test series, now explain me what indian bowlers have got to do with this.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    I agree. Smith and Kohli are simply not in the same class as AB de Villiers. That is the highest class and only Lara and Tendulkar belongs there.
    eh what? AB greater than smith and kohli?

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    First of all i have seen sachin throughout the 2000s and if you remove your tinted glasses you will also realise that sachin was more about maintaining a consistent average instead of going for the kill.
    That's what I was alluding to. You didn't witness him in '90s when he was by far the best batsman on planet and yet somehow find yourself equipped to declare that he was only a consistent scorer.

    Just like therealab, educate yourself about his travails in '90s, see what kind of bowling attacks he took apart while being a lone ranger for his team especially in away tests while looking extremely classy at the same time, unlike someone who has got one of the ugliest looking batting techniques ever.

  18. #178
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    Never scored 500+ runs in a series? Another useless matric devised by uninformed souls?

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    That's what I was alluding to. You didn't witness him in '90s when he was by far the best batsman on planet and yet somehow find yourself equipped to declare that he was only a consistent scorer.

    Just like therealab, educate yourself about his travails in '90s, see what kind of bowling attacks he took apart while being a lone ranger for his team especially in away tests while looking extremely classy at the same time, unlike someone who has got one of the ugliest looking batting techniques ever.
    just because his technique isn't aesthetic does not equate to him being worse than tenda. Put smith in india team of the 90s he would carry them just as well if not better than what tenda did.

    However what I feel is tenda would've been the better player in a world class team. Smith's value diminishes when he plays alongside great players. He is more like an overachiever who can raise the bar for weaker teams.

    tenda would make strong teams potentially unbeatable.


    in saying that tenda is still inferior to smith in my opinion. Very slightly.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    just because his technique isn't aesthetic does not equate to him being worse than tenda. Put smith in india team of the 90s he would carry them just as well if not better than what tenda did.

    However what I feel is tenda would've been the better player in a world class team. Smith's value diminishes when he plays alongside great players. He is more like an overachiever who can raise the bar for weaker teams.

    tenda would make strong teams potentially unbeatable.


    in saying that tenda is still inferior to smith in my opinion. Very slightly.
    Currently you cant argue with average over 60 thats almost 8-10 points higher.


  21. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    Currently you cant argue with average over 60 thats almost 8-10 points higher.
    absolutely. it's nuts. Australia vs india home and away over the next 2 year's will decide who is better. Includes kohli as well who can move above tenda too if he performs again.

  22. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    After the Ashes and before the Kiwis arrived, Smith played two proper matches in 10 weeks (against Pakistan) and scored 4 and 36.

    He then played three Tests against the Kiwis at home and had a top score of 85 in 3 Tests as he was consistently and repeatedly bounced out.

    He did really well with a whacky technique until he got hit. And has never looked the same since.
    Smith steps up when required, not when beating substandard teams by hundreds of runs. I have faith when we next need Smith to step up he will.

    Also, you said he has not looked the same since. What about his 200 followed by a clutch 80 in the 4th test?

  23. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    just because his technique isn't aesthetic does not equate to him being worse than tenda. Put smith in india team of the 90s he would carry them just as well if not better than what tenda did.

    However what I feel is tenda would've been the better player in a world class team. Smith's value diminishes when he plays alongside great players. He is more like an overachiever who can raise the bar for weaker teams.

    tenda would make strong teams potentially unbeatable.


    in saying that tenda is still inferior to smith in my opinion. Very slightly.
    Yep agreed. Tendulkar is the more dominating player while Smith is ungettoutable which is good in bad teams because he can carry them as well as potentially draw games in bad situation (e.g. vs India 2017)

  24. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    That's what I was alluding to. You didn't witness him in '90s when he was by far the best batsman on planet and yet somehow find yourself equipped to declare that he was only a consistent scorer.

    Just like therealab, educate yourself about his travails in '90s, see what kind of bowling attacks he took apart while being a lone ranger for his team especially in away tests while looking extremely classy at the same time, unlike someone who has got one of the ugliest looking batting techniques ever.
    Even in the 90's Steve Waugh was more consistently clutch and dominating against the top teams. I am not saying he is worse than Waugh, but Waugh won series by dominating (1995 winning in the west indies for the 1st time in 20 years vs Walsh, Ambrose, Bishop). Sachin never scored more than 500 in a series

  25. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Even in the 90's Steve Waugh was more consistently clutch and dominating against the top teams. I am not saying he is worse than Waugh, but Waugh won series by dominating (1995 winning in the west indies for the 1st time in 20 years vs Walsh, Ambrose, Bishop). Sachin never scored more than 500 in a series
    Lol, Waugh won the series? More clutch? What decides who is clutch? Did he take 20 WI wickets as well? You yet again forget that test cricket is a game of taking 20 opposition wickets or do you reckon Australian bowling attack as equal to India's popgun attack?

    More than 500 runs in a series? Who made this a qualification criteria? You?

  26. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    Lol, Waugh won the series? More clutch? What decides who is clutch? Did he take 20 WI wickets as well? You yet again forget that test cricket is a game of taking 20 opposition wickets or do you reckon Australian bowling attack as equal to India's popgun attack?

    More than 500 runs in a series? Who made this a qualification criteria? You?
    The 500 run qualification has been used many times and shows how much a player dominates a series. It is a nice, round number that is not picked to cherry-pick for Smith, I could pick 450/600 and show just as clearly that Smith is better at dominating series.

    Did you watch the 1995 series, as if you did you would realise Waugh dominated. His 63* was the gutsiest innings in history, and convinced the WI they could not win the series despite winning the test. Standing up to Ambrose in those conditions leaves a mark and Waugh just wanted it more. Sachin could never had made such a statement in those conditions as he is a stats-padder who does not stop up, like Waugh did then and Smith has done vs England and India

  27. #187
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    Unlike someone like you, I'm not too much of a patriot. You are someone who obviously can't see anyone past his compatriots.

    Try to look at cricketers without putting your country blinkers on and you may just see the light.

    Only someone who has not seen any top level cricket will put Tendulkar down, just to put his compatriots on top.

  28. #188
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    Lol at gutsiest innings, so you have now seen each and every innings of test cricket.

    You and your hyperboles....

  29. #189
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    500 runs criteria being used many times? Ok, if you say so.

  30. #190
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    And I'm yet to see any reply from you as to how many of 20 wickets in each test did Steve take to win that test series for Australia?

  31. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    500 runs criteria being used many times? Ok, if you say so.
    pick a number that is not a cherry pick and we can work with that

  32. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    And I'm yet to see any reply from you as to how many of 20 wickets in each test did Steve take to win that test series for Australia?
    it was a bowlers series and Waugh was the only batsman to stand up. Outperformed Lara vs a better attack at his home. Batsmen need to set up tests to win them. The mental effect of what he did cannot be understated

  33. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    Lol at gutsiest innings, so you have now seen each and every innings of test cricket.

    You and your hyperboles....
    Do you have to have seen every batsmen ever to decide who is the greatest?

  34. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    Unlike someone like you, I'm not too much of a patriot. You are someone who obviously can't see anyone past his compatriots.

    Try to look at cricketers without putting your country blinkers on and you may just see the light.

    Only someone who has not seen any top level cricket will put Tendulkar down, just to put his compatriots on top.
    Ad Hominem.

    I rate many Australian player low. I believe that Ponting, Hussey, Hayden, Lillee are vastly overrated. See my post re. Hayden in another thread recently. I rate some players from other countries very highly. Richards, Gavaskar, Kohli in test cricket, Sobers, B.Richards and Pollock to name a few. I also rate Sachin highly. However, I do not rate these players higher than Smith due to how he dominates series.

    You instead vote a player down because he has an ugly looking technique, which does obviously not affect his ability to score runs

  35. #195
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    I think it's fair to say that sachin is a better batsman and smith is a better runscorer.

  36. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by anikrc1 View Post
    I think it's fair to say that sachin is a better batsman and smith is a better runscorer.
    How can that work. Isn't the better runscorer the better bat.

    Does that mean you would pick Smith to win a test?

  37. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    How can that work. Isn't the better runscorer the better bat.

    Does that mean you would pick Smith to win a test?
    I will say it like this, let's divide a batsman's strength in parts. To me they will be hand-eye coordination, ability to find gap, range of strokes , wrist work, footwork etc. I think a lara or a tendulkar will score better than smith in almost all the areas, but smith is supremely fit and have unmatched concentration which enables him to be better in run-production.

  38. #198
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    Sachin > Smith.

    Smith hasnít even faced 10% of the fast bowlers which Sachin had faced.

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    It's a weird debate.

    I admire Smith, a lot.

    But the guy's career is not finished and most current and ex cricketers openly put Kohli ahead of him as an overall batsman. With that in mind, why is there a hurry to put him ahead of Sachin? I mean not even ahead of Ponting, Lara and so many other greats with 150 tests but you're putting him over a guy with 200 tests. I think it's insane and rather unfair on Smith and not on Sachin.

    It makes guys like me ridicule Smith just for the sake of it even though I hate to.

    Sometimes it feels like rather than admiration for good batsmen like Smith, Sangakkara, Kallis etc, people just have an urge to put Sachin down by their desperate attempts.

    Whether you like it or hate it, Tendulkar is not just one of the giants of the game, by all means he is The giant of the game.

    Let Smith, Kohli, Babar, Root,Williamson retire. Let's see what their final numbers and accomplishments are. There is no hurry.

    People ca themselves true fans of the game and yet they show no awareness of what it takes to play 150+, 200 test matches. It's 24 years if cricket at the highest level. If you can't say anything good, just stay quiet and stop embarrassing yourselves.

  40. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mueez View Post
    Sachin > Smith.

    Smith hasn’t even faced 10% of the fast bowlers which Sachin had faced.
    Bumrah, Rabada, Holder will all be ATG's in the future. Steyn is a top tier ATG. Ashwin, jadeja, Herath, Anderson in home conditions are ATG's. The world batting average these days is as low as ever, showing the strength of bowlers.

    What people do not reliase is that these bowlers are not yet seen as ATG's as they are early in their career. In 1990 nobody would have said Ambrose, Waqar and Wasim are ATG's. In 1995 nobody would have said Donald and McGrath were ATG's


  41. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    It's a weird debate.

    I admire Smith, a lot.

    But the guy's career is not finished and most current and ex cricketers openly put Kohli ahead of him as an overall batsman. With that in mind, why is there a hurry to put him ahead of Sachin? I mean not even ahead of Ponting, Lara and so many other greats with 150 tests but you're putting him over a guy with 200 tests. I think it's insane and rather unfair on Smith and not on Sachin.

    It makes guys like me ridicule Smith just for the sake of it even though I hate to.

    Sometimes it feels like rather than admiration for good batsmen like Smith, Sangakkara, Kallis etc, people just have an urge to put Sachin down by their desperate attempts.

    Whether you like it or hate it, Tendulkar is not just one of the giants of the game, by all means he is The giant of the game.

    Let Smith, Kohli, Babar, Root,Williamson retire. Let's see what their final numbers and accomplishments are. There is no hurry.

    People ca themselves true fans of the game and yet they show no awareness of what it takes to play 150+, 200 test matches. It's 24 years if cricket at the highest level. If you can't say anything good, just stay quiet and stop embarrassing yourselves.
    I completely agree that Tendulkar is a giant of the game and >> Every batsmen today as an all format player. I rate him as a top 10 test bat of all time and a legitimate contender for the best since Bradman, which very few ATG's have a claim. I compare Smith to him as he is the greater competition. I rate Sachin >> Ponting, Kallis, Sangakarra etc and >Lara.

    The reason why I rate Smith above him is that I just view him as a better test batsmen. If I had to pick a player to score a 100 in tough conditions, I would pick Smith over just about anyone. I don't really care a whole lot about longevity as long as a player has proved himself in all conditions and influenced many series. I am not rating Labu > ATG's just because of his average as he has not shown to be great in all conditions. I mean no disrespect to Sachin and consider him a greater test cricketer than Smith due to his longevity and influence in India, but just not a better one understanding the difference between the 'best' and the 'greatest'. I also rate peak > longevity, and it is a fact that Smith has had a better peak than Sachin. This rating is also shown by me rating Imran very highly as a fast bowler for example, igher than Wasim, Lillee, Donald, he obtained a level that the others did not, while they might have had more consistent careers. THis is how i rate cricketers, and I have no issues with people rating longevity highly

    The one thing that does frustrate me is people rating him higher due to the fact that he is aesthetically better. I do a bit of coaching, and I ask teach and people to look at Sachin's technique as he is the textbook, especially for his driving and defense. However this does not affect his quality as a test batsman, as the most important factor is mental determination and stamina which Smith has mastered more than anyone since Bradman, and all I care about is how many runs they score. When people use this as a reason for rating Smith higher I do tend to get a bit mad so sorry guys.

  42. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Bumrah, Rabada, Holder will all be ATG's in the future. Steyn is a top tier ATG. Ashwin, jadeja, Herath, Anderson in home conditions are ATG's. The world batting average these days is as low as ever, showing the strength of bowlers.

    What people do not reliase is that these bowlers are not yet seen as ATG's as they are early in their career. In 1990 nobody would have said Ambrose, Waqar and Wasim are ATG's. In 1995 nobody would have said Donald and McGrath were ATG's
    To be fair smith hasn't faced bumrah in a test yet. And hasn't scored a century against rabada in 6 tests.

  43. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by anikrc1 View Post
    To be fair smith hasn't faced bumrah in a test yet. And hasn't scored a century against rabada in 6 tests.
    Yep good point, didn't realise. Quite confident he will improve that though, even Sachin/Lara started slowly against the top bowlers. 2016 smith wasn't the player he is now and while the 2018 series was torried, that is his worst series ever and likely the rest of fatigue over an ashes series. Still admit that this is an issue in his record, slightly countered by his outstanding series vs Steyn, Morkel and Philander in 2014

  44. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    I completely agree that Tendulkar is a giant of the game and >> Every batsmen today as an all format player. I rate him as a top 10 test bat of all time and a legitimate contender for the best since Bradman, which very few ATG's have a claim. I compare Smith to him as he is the greater competition. I rate Sachin >> Ponting, Kallis, Sangakarra etc and >Lara.

    The reason why I rate Smith above him is that I just view him as a better test batsmen. If I had to pick a player to score a 100 in tough conditions, I would pick Smith over just about anyone. I don't really care a whole lot about longevity as long as a player has proved himself in all conditions and influenced many series. I am not rating Labu > ATG's just because of his average as he has not shown to be great in all conditions. I mean no disrespect to Sachin and consider him a greater test cricketer than Smith due to his longevity and influence in India, but just not a better one understanding the difference between the 'best' and the 'greatest'. I also rate peak > longevity, and it is a fact that Smith has had a better peak than Sachin. This rating is also shown by me rating Imran very highly as a fast bowler for example, igher than Wasim, Lillee, Donald, he obtained a level that the others did not, while they might have had more consistent careers. THis is how i rate cricketers, and I have no issues with people rating longevity highly

    The one thing that does frustrate me is people rating him higher due to the fact that he is aesthetically better. I do a bit of coaching, and I ask teach and people to look at Sachin's technique as he is the textbook, especially for his driving and defense. However this does not affect his quality as a test batsman, as the most important factor is mental determination and stamina which Smith has mastered more than anyone since Bradman, and all I care about is how many runs they score. When people use this as a reason for rating Smith higher I do tend to get a bit mad so sorry guys.
    Bro this is a very different take from some of your trollish and utterly idiotic comments in the other thread where you clearly claimed Sachin cannot score on tricky pitches.

    You need to stop beating about the bush and clearly state your intentions.

    It's perfectly fine for you to have a favorite but you praise Sachin here, call him.a contender for best since Bradman whole some of your other posts seem to portray Sachin as some Shane Watson.

    I am honestly confused if you are taking the mickey or having a serious debate

  45. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Bro this is a very different take from some of your trollish and utterly idiotic comments in the other thread where you clearly claimed Sachin cannot score on tricky pitches.

    You need to stop beating about the bush and clearly state your intentions.

    It's perfectly fine for you to have a favorite but you praise Sachin here, call him.a contender for best since Bradman whole some of your other posts seem to portray Sachin as some Shane Watson.

    I am honestly confused if you are taking the mickey or having a serious debate
    I did not state that. I say he is worse than Smith and I would prefer to have Smith score a hundred on a tricky pitch. I stand by that. I would pick Sachin over just about any other batsmen. I was not the person comparing him with Stokes, Watson etc as i believe that is idiotic. Please do not portray me like that, just as I do not see you as someone who blindly follows every player Indian, calls Dhoni the greatest player etc

  46. #206
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    Just adding on to that, I have not responded to posts saying that Hussey > Sachin and stuff like that.

    The only things re Sachin I have said are (please quote me if there are others):
    1. I would pick Smith on tricky pitches
    2. Smith is mentally tougher
    3. Sachin gets worshipped and it is ok to criticise him

    All of those three are reasonable at the very least, not tearing Sachin down. Especially the 3rd one, we are on a forum and welcome to criticise anybody player we like

    Also the ICC rankings, I do not totally agree with them as they only look at peak (Sachin >>> Hussey, Harvey, May) but i had to object to using them to say Warne << Ashwin when it is a commonly noted flaw of the rankings that they do not account home/away

    Also please post when I compared him to watto, seems you are getting me confused with FDP

  47. #207
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    how does #star power make your team score more runs. Looks at size of player audience rather than quality

  48. #208
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    Highest Test Average among Current players

    S Smith - 62.84
    Kohli - 53.62
    Kane - 50.99
    Warner - 48.94
    Pujara - 48.66
    Root - 48.40

  49. #209
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    No, S Smith is not the best batsman

    Sachin
    Lara
    Dravid
    Ponting
    Kohli
    AB de Villiers

    Are easily better than him that I have seen playing.

  50. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianG00se View Post
    No, S Smith is not the best batsman

    Sachin
    Lara
    Dravid
    Ponting
    Kohli
    AB de Villiers

    Are easily better than him that I have seen playing.
    In test cricket or all formats?

  51. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    In test cricket or all formats?
    Even in Test cricket. S Smith might displace Kohli if itís only Test, but those batsmen were facing much better bowlers in bowling friendly pitches. Not taking away anything from S Smith, but itís really hard to put him above any of those legendary players. For me, Smith will always be notch below Ponting.

    All formats, Smith isnít even best batsman of his era let alone comparing from previous.

  52. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianG00se View Post
    Even in Test cricket. S Smith might displace Kohli if it’s only Test, but those batsmen were facing much better bowlers in bowling friendly pitches. Not taking away anything from S Smith, but it’s really hard to put him above any of those legendary players. For me, Smith will always be notch below Ponting.

    All formats, Smith isn’t even best batsman of his era let alone comparing from previous.
    So you think that Kohli > Smith

    Smith has also faced much better bowlers on trickier pitches in test cricket and done better than ABdV

  53. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    So you think that Kohli > Smith

    Smith has also faced much better bowlers on trickier pitches in test cricket and done better than ABdV
    Overall,
    Kohli > Smith
    Test
    Smith > Kohli

    As I said, Smith as test batsman is beast, but overall he is nowhere near mentioned legendary players. Those players on their day would take the game away on its own, Smith in LOIs at best would play support role.

  54. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianG00se View Post
    Overall,
    Kohli > Smith
    Test
    Smith > Kohli

    As I said, Smith as test batsman is beast, but overall he is nowhere near mentioned legendary players. Those players on their day would take the game away on its own, Smith in LOIs at best would play support role.
    yep agreed, Smith not an explosive ODI bat

  55. #215
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    debating about a player who has not ended his career yet with stuff like the best batsman you have ever seen is not right, let him complete his career, it is childish to declare him the best but certainly he can be the best if he continues his form but a very long way to go

    looking at his age and current pandemic it will be tough for smith to get to 10k test runs first then we can have the debate of him being the best, the best batsmen should be the one who have batted the same way through out their career in top notch form, smith still has some years into his career and 10k test runs, very childish thread if the idea is to declare or ask is he the best right now


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