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  1. #1
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    Pakistan need five full-time bowling options for the Tests in Australia

    Atleast 3 full time pacers, one pacer who is also an all rounder and one full time spinner.

    Have seen it far too many times where we played 3 pacers and a spinner and because the spinner was ineffective in England, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, we ended up over bowling the pacers to the ground and eventually they declined badly from their second spells onwards.

    Everytime Pakistan has played Faheem Ashraf in tests, our four pacers including Faheem have had the capacity to come hard at the batsmen in all their spells and to keep the pressure up and we have ended up bowling out teams for decent totals.

    Am not sure if the ommission of Faheem was wise or if Misbah indeed intends to go into the tests with 4 pacers and Yasir as the spinner which will lengthen the tail. Atleast with Faheem and Shadab in the team, the team benefitted on both fronts with having 5 full time bowling options and a deep batting line up as well.

    My personal opinion is that Pakistan needs to consider Faheem and Shadab for SENA conditions as Yasir will be ineffective in those conditions and therefore the remaining pacers will be bowled into the ground and will eventually be ineffective as the tour goes on.

  2. #2
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    Shan
    Azar
    Harris
    Babar
    Shafiq
    Rizwan
    Iftikhar
    Abbas
    Shaheen
    Musa
    Naseem

    4 quick bowlers
    1 batting all rounder ifti
    Harris can bowl 10 overs a day

  3. #3
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    Spinners are effective in Australia but their role is very different.

    They need to bowl long spells and hold one end up while being extremely economical. This is what Lyon does, eats up a huge chunk of the overs giving the Aussie skipper flexibility with his pace attack while ensuring the fast bowlers are not over bowled.

    More than their skill with the bat, preference should be for a spinner with a calm head who is capable of bowling long spells economically. This gives the captain a control over proceedings.

    Rest assured the Aussie batsmen will attack whoever is the touring spinner in home conditions and not let him settle. Misbah and the boys should have their game plan spot on. Attacking with a spinner in order to prize wickets will back-fire in my opinion.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    Spinners are effective in Australia but their role is very different.

    They need to bowl long spells and hold one end up while being extremely economical. This is what Lyon does, eats up a huge chunk of the overs giving the Aussie skipper flexibility with his pace attack while ensuring the fast bowlers are not over bowled.

    More than their skill with the bat, preference should be for a spinner with a calm head who is capable of bowling long spells economically. This gives the captain a control over proceedings.

    Rest assured the Aussie batsmen will attack whoever is the touring spinner in home conditions and not let him settle. Misbah and the boys should have their game plan spot on. Attacking with a spinner in order to prize wickets will back-fire in my opinion.
    The question is then is Yasir or Kashif Bhatti, are they up for the job? Can Harris, Iftikhar chip in and be effective? The pacers especially Nasim, Musa should not bowl more than 12-15 overs a day and need to be used in short sharp bursts, Abbas should be the work horse.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    Spinners are effective in Australia but their role is very different.

    They need to bowl long spells and hold one end up while being extremely economical. This is what Lyon does, eats up a huge chunk of the overs giving the Aussie skipper flexibility with his pace attack while ensuring the fast bowlers are not over bowled.

    More than their skill with the bat, preference should be for a spinner with a calm head who is capable of bowling long spells economically. This gives the captain a control over proceedings.

    Rest assured the Aussie batsmen will attack whoever is the touring spinner in home conditions and not let him settle. Misbah and the boys should have their game plan spot on. Attacking with a spinner in order to prize wickets will back-fire in my opinion.
    Good post. You don't need five bowlers in Australia. India played 3 seamers and a spinner and won last year. What you do need is a spinner who offers control and doesn't get flogged at 4 an over. Pakistan also have plenty of part time options to support the attack. No need to compromise batting strength to play the extra bowler.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Good post. You don't need five bowlers in Australia. India played 3 seamers and a spinner and won last year. What you do need is a spinner who offers control and doesn't get flogged at 4 an over. Pakistan also have plenty of part time options to support the attack. No need to compromise batting strength to play the extra bowler.
    You do need 5 bowlers if you don’t want to run your 3 teenage fast bowlers in to the ground. If pitches are flat and we play only 4 bowlers with one being Yasir that will be a recipe for disaster for the likes of Musa, Shaheen and Naseem.

  7. #7
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    If Abbas, Yasir, Iftikhar can keep things tight and Harris can chip in with a few reliable overs, this will allow us to use Nasim Shah, Musa in short sharp bursts.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boi View Post
    You do need 5 bowlers if you don’t want to run your 3 teenage fast bowlers in to the ground. If pitches are flat and we play only 4 bowlers with one being Yasir that will be a recipe for disaster for the likes of Musa, Shaheen and Naseem.
    Good luck trying to score anything over 300 then. That too at the Gabba and in the day night match. Pakistan also have the option of playing 4 quicks and bowling part time spin only. Not sure why there is a need for an all-rounder just for the sake of it .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Good luck trying to score anything over 300 then. That too at the Gabba and in the day night match. Pakistan also have the option of playing 4 quicks and bowling part time spin only. Not sure why there is a need for an all-rounder just for the sake of it .
    What is the guarantee playing an extra batsman will allow Pakistan to score 300 plus consistently? To win test matches you need to be able to get 20 wickets. I would rather Pakistan strengthen their chances to get 20 wickets. The batting will have to take care of its self on its own

  10. #10
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    I think two specialist fast bowlers, 1 fast bowling all rounder, 1 spin bowling all rounder and 1 batting all rounder would have been ideal. But I don't see a single all rounder other than Iftikhar, which is gonna cost us, as we should look to lengthen our batting line up as much as possible. In the end it will come all down to our batting, not bowling.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    The question is then is Yasir or Kashif Bhatti, are they up for the job? Can Harris, Iftikhar chip in and be effective? The pacers especially Nasim, Musa should not bowl more than 12-15 overs a day and need to be used in short sharp bursts, Abbas should be the work horse.
    Kashif Bhatti and generally any decent finger spinner have more control and thus better chance to keep things tight than a leggy.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Kashif Bhatti and generally any decent finger spinner have more control and thus better chance to keep things tight than a leggy.
    And Bhatti is a decent batsmen as well.

  13. #13
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    This is where all rounder like amir yameen would have been very useful. He is imperative for pakistan.

    As Shaheen Naseem and abbas are weak at batting. Shadab khan would have been useful at no 8. He is better than yasir shah Atleast.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    And Bhatti is a decent batsmen as well.
    True.

  15. #15
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    While Aamir Yamin is a decent cricketer but his height and pace would be of no use in Australia. Other than that I cant think of any pace bowling all rounder with batting ability even close to his level. Someone like Amad Butt could have been tried but then he is a bowling all rounder who can not bat at no 7.

    So I know its hard admit but Iftikhar Ahmed is the most feasible 5th bowler and batting all rounder option we have.

  16. #16
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    Yanin's 75mph medium pace bowling would be of no help on hard, flat Australian pitches.

    There's no point playing a spinner for the sake of it. With our feeble batting I'd be shocked if any Test goes 5 days - so we should attack with 4 pacers and use part-time spin to complete our overs.

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    Kashif Bhatti and Iftikhar should play over Yasir and Shafiq. They together need to get through 25 overs a day.


    Does cricket survive off of it's money or does it survive for it's money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Yanin's 75mph medium pace bowling would be of no help on hard, flat Australian pitches.

    There's no point playing a spinner for the sake of it. With our feeble batting I'd be shocked if any Test goes 5 days - so we should attack with 4 pacers and use part-time spin to complete our overs.
    Yamin's actually not that slow, he usually bowls in the 130-135 range and would only bowl 10-15 overs a day, plus his batting is pretty good so I'm sad that he's been overlooked, not surprised though, it seems like the selectors don't know he, and Zafar Gohar exist.


    Does cricket survive off of it's money or does it survive for it's money?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    Yamin's actually not that slow, he usually bowls in the 130-135 range and would only bowl 10-15 overs a day, plus his batting is pretty good so I'm sad that he's been overlooked, not surprised though, it seems like the selectors don't know he, and Zafar Gohar exist.
    Yamin actually is a new ball specialist, he seams and swings the new ball and is always given the new ball by his domestic side and thats understandable given that he is always striking early with the new ball

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    Abbas aside, none of our bowling options will have much impact on this tour.

    Aussies are too strong a team for us! It should be a good experience gaining opportunity for Babar and Shaheen, nothing much.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Abbas aside, none of our bowling options will have much impact on this tour.

    Aussies are too strong a team for us! It should be a good experience gaining opportunity for Babar and Shaheen, nothing much.
    I wont go that far, Australia is still a Steve Smith or nothing team and Warner hasn't made much impact since being back. Their batting line up is still fragile.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Abbas aside, none of our bowling options will have much impact on this tour.

    Aussies are too strong a team for us! It should be a good experience gaining opportunity for Babar and Shaheen, nothing much.
    nah. only need to get smith out and marnus maybe who has improved. Their team is overrated at home. Totally beatable for pakistan.

    Young bowlers is the issue as you don't want to overwork them. That's why I agree with some posters above, ashraf and sadaf over yasir is essential.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Abbas aside, none of our bowling options will have much impact on this tour.

    Aussies are too strong a team for us! It should be a good experience gaining opportunity for Babar and Shaheen, nothing much.
    Abbas isn’t going to have any impact. He will get exposed once again in these conditions. The standout bowlers will be Shaheen and Naseem.

  24. #24
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    Misbah wonít pick all-rounders.

    Which is why he always overbowled his quicks outside Asia, and wore them out.

    BTW donít forget that Adelaide is a pink ball greentop. He really needed to have Mohammad Amir for that match.

  25. #25
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    Knowing Misbah, it seems like we're going back to the old 4 bowlers strategy where Yasir will be overbowled and the pacers will be poorly utilised.

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    This is where we needed Shadab. Shadab is good enough to bat at 7 and he bowls leg spin. Then with him at 7 we could have had 4 pace bowlers at 8-11. That we we would have had 5 front line bowling options plus Haris, Azhar and Shan Masood. With 4 pacers Pakistan could have attacked and been more aggressive.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Kashif Bhatti and generally any decent finger spinner have more control and thus better chance to keep things tight than a leggy.
    Agree, a spinner with control and accuracy is very important. Plus he must be able to withstand the pressure when batsmen look to attack.

    An offie makes good sense against Australia which has quite a few left handed batsmen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    What is the guarantee playing an extra batsman will allow Pakistan to score 300 plus consistently? To win test matches you need to be able to get 20 wickets. I would rather Pakistan strengthen their chances to get 20 wickets. The batting will have to take care of its self on its own
    100%, aiming for 20 wickets is vital. The current Australian batting line up is quite long, none of the tail-enders are mugs with the bat.

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    People are forgetting about Shaheen Shah here. How will he fare in Australia. His combination with Naseem can be a very good one.

  29. #29
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    I think both Bhatti can be our no.7 he is decent with the bat and then we can unleash 4 pacers with Haris/Ifti our backup spin options.

    My lineup will look like this.


    Abid
    Azhar
    Babar
    Haris
    Rizwan
    Ifti/Asad
    Bhatti
    Shaheen
    Abbas
    Naseem
    Musa

    Bowling look good but batting is thin with tail starting at no.8

  30. #30
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    Even if Pakistan have 7 or 8 bowling options it will not matter unless the batsmen can put up a score on the board.
    That has been our main issue for the past 15 years at least. Batsmen are not scoring enough runs. Occasionally the bowlers have bailed us out and won us a few matches but as soon as the bowlers fail everyone starts talking about how our bowling has declined.
    For me the pattern is straight forward for any observer. Our batsmen simply do not score enough runs consistently to win test matches.

  31. #31
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    Asad has been bowling decent off spin lately too so him and haris along with Yasir should be more than enough...you need to get 20 wickets somehow..has to be attacking mindset

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by re82h View Post
    Even if Pakistan have 7 or 8 bowling options it will not matter unless the batsmen can put up a score on the board.
    That has been our main issue for the past 15 years at least. Batsmen are not scoring enough runs. Occasionally the bowlers have bailed us out and won us a few matches but as soon as the bowlers fail everyone starts talking about how our bowling has declined.
    For me the pattern is straight forward for any observer. Our batsmen simply do not score enough runs consistently to win test matches.
    Hundred percent right..if batters can get something the bowlers have something to go at..dont forget the aussie tracks are getting flatter and flatter now

  33. #33
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    Waqar will have a massive challenge at rotating/managing bowler workloads. Pakistan's batting should do well with true bounce on all surfaces, its the bowling!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalluBalleBaaz View Post
    Waqar will have a massive challenge at rotating/managing bowler workloads. Pakistan's batting should do well with true bounce on all surfaces, its the bowling!
    Remember they are going to Australia early summer, so there will be a bit more live grass on the pitches. Maybe not in Brisbane, but definitely in Adelaide.

  35. #35
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    Brisbane is still one of the most bounciest track in the world, it will be a handful for any batsmen. If Pakistani bowlers do not pitch it up then expect tons of cuts and pulls. Big cracks start developing on 3rd day and this is where Lyon will come in.

    Adelaide offers something for everyone. Seam movement throughout test matches for fast bowlers and good bounce for spinners.

    Pakistan bowlers will have to beat Australia at their own strategy, hold on one end and strike from the other. Lyon can bowl nonstop and hold an end while cummins, starc and hazelwood strike from the other.

  36. #36
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    We don’t have an all rounder who is good enough. So better to go with specialists.

  37. #37
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    Pakistan should have stick with the same combination that worked for them in last tour of England. The combination is pretty simple. Play 4 fast bowlers (1 all-rounder) and one spinning all-rounder. Pakistan has won in England due to significant contributions from Shadab and Faheem if not with ball then with bat. I understand they are out of form at the moment but should have been replaced with similar players rather than specialists. Ideally, Pakistan's test team should have looked like as follows for next SENA international season.

    1. Shan Masood
    2. Azhar Ali
    3. Babar Azam
    4. Asad Shafique
    5. Haris Sohail / Usman Salahuddin
    6. Muhammad Rizwan
    7. Shadab Khan / Nawaz
    8. Faheem Ashraf / Ammad Butt
    9. Shaheen Shah
    10. Muhammad Abbas
    11. Naseem Shah / Musa / Yasir Shah (depending on conditions and fitness)

    Babar and Asad both should bat up the order in new test line-up. Azhar is make shift captain for a year until Babar take reigns in all formats. Till then Babar should score big because he can and we all know that by now.

    I'm not sold on Haris in test lineup. His fitness and mental commitment is questionable at test level, but considering the runs he has scored in recent limited overs fixtures he needs to start first. If doesn't come off then Usman should be give the nod.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extra_Cover View Post
    Pakistan should have stick with the same combination that worked for them in last tour of England. The combination is pretty simple. Play 4 fast bowlers (1 all-rounder) and one spinning all-rounder. Pakistan has won in England due to significant contributions from Shadab and Faheem if not with ball then with bat. I understand they are out of form at the moment but should have been replaced with similar players rather than specialists. Ideally, Pakistan's test team should have looked like as follows for next SENA international season.
    England and Australia have very different Test playing conditions.

    English conditions offer something for the bowlers especially the first two days. Something our pace bowlers put to good use, tough batting conditions.

    Australia after the Kookaburra's shine is off is a batsman's playground, they make merry. If the top order do their job, having a long batting line up is pointless.

    The bowlers on the other hand have a long hard toil ahead of them. So cannot expect Abbas style seam movement and prodigious swing here. On non-responsive pitches guys with pace, bounce and control are needed. Plus very good endurance to deliver long spells from a 5 man bowling attack.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    England and Australia have very different Test playing conditions.

    English conditions offer something for the bowlers especially the first two days. Something our pace bowlers put to good use, tough batting conditions.

    Australia after the Kookaburra's shine is off is a batsman's playground, they make merry. If the top order do their job, having a long batting line up is pointless.

    The bowlers on the other hand have a long hard toil ahead of them. So cannot expect Abbas style seam movement and prodigious swing here. On non-responsive pitches guys with pace, bounce and control are needed. Plus very good endurance to deliver long spells from a 5 man bowling attack.
    They should've gone with Shadab and batted him at 7. That would have allowed 4 pacers to play. Abbas shouldn't be playing imo. He hasn't been performing for a year now, and that's long enough to drop him. The worst play to play Abbas even when he is in form is Australia. They should have gone with Sameen Gul instead, who is suited to Australian conditions. The pace attack should've been Shaheen and Sameen opening, then Naseem Musa as first and second change. Shadab gets through some spin overs.

    I know that is a really inexperienced bowling attack, but it's the best we have and we have to take our best. Musa has a poor domestic record this season, but anyone who watched would know he was unlucky as many of his catches were put down, especially in the slips (probably because the domestic fielders are used to catching off 130 kph trundlers).
    Unfortunately the experienced pacers in Pakistan's domestic circuit are all useless.

    The attack I meantioned would be ruthless and always be attacking and I reckon would have been very successful and a lot more successful than the other attacks we have taken before.

  40. #40
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    You guys can harp over here on what the best combo is, matter of fact is, we have never won in Australia and never will for a little while.

    When our bowling clicks, our batting flops and vice versa.

    Also, are we forgetting we are playing in their home?

    When you have mental midgets like Asad, tuk tuk Azhar Ali, right there is 60% of the batting for the team. We just donít know how to apply pressure and take on the bowlers.


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    Babar and Haris will fire with the bat


    Full credit to Micky Arthur for realizing Babar Azam was born to bat at 3 in all formats.

  42. #42
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    They need 5 bowlers for sure - they need to make sure they keep it tight at all times Aus batting line up apart from smith is not great and if you keep it tight they give chances.

  43. #43
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    Pakistan batting will be weak even if they play 4 bowlers let alone 5.


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