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  1. #1
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    Ertugrul: Turkish TV serials are a big hit in Pakistan

    After gaining sweeping popularity in the Middle East, South Africa and surprisingly in South America, action-packed Turkish television series Dirilis: Ertugrul has taken over Pakistan.

    So much so, that Prime Minister Imran Khan recently ordered that all its five seasons be dubbed in Urdu, to make it easy for the general public to watch and understand.

    It is not only the Ertugrul, but other Turkish TV serials have also earned huge popularity in the country.

    Often described as a Turkish Game of Thrones, the serial is woven around 13th century Anatolia and tells the story prior to the establishment of the Ottoman Empire. It illustrates the struggle of Ertugrul Gazi, father of the empire's first leader.
    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/culture/tur...kistan/1637289
    Last edited by Lonewarrior; 8th November 2019 at 06:05.


    The Griffins ....

  2. #2
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    with english subtitles



    The Griffins ....

  3. #3
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    There were Turkish serials in India too if i recall, my parents used to watch em , was boring to me but i guess desis find something interesting.
    Fatmagul Or something was big..

  4. #4
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    My mom and khala have been hooked on to a few Turkish dramas themselves

  5. #5
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    Turkish tv

    I watched one named kiralik ask. Absolutely enjoyed throughout. Fantastic music have it as my ringtone.
    Last edited by jaisan; 8th November 2019 at 13:06. Reason: Add

  6. #6
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    superb series. The dialogues, music, execution, everything is amazing. I am still on season 1. It has 75 episodes!!!

  7. #7
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    I can't watch poorly or foreign dubbed programmes or films when the lips move a year ahead before the words are said!!


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  8. #8
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    If you want to boost your imaan this is the series for you. I have watched all 5 seasons so far. Top acting. Of course it can be felt as biased at times because it is about Turkish history and the rise of the Otthoman empire but over all it is very good, I loved it!


    Ki Mohammad (saw) sey wafa tu ney tou hum terey hain
    Yeh jahaan cheez kya hai Loh-o-Qalam tere hain

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    I can't watch poorly or foreign dubbed programmes or films when the lips move a year ahead before the words are said!!
    But here you will be surprised. I watched season 1 with Urdu dubbing and it was done very professionally.


    Ki Mohammad (saw) sey wafa tu ney tou hum terey hain
    Yeh jahaan cheez kya hai Loh-o-Qalam tere hain

  10. #10
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  11. #11
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    Will this be aired in the UK as well?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    If you want to boost your imaan this is the series for you. I have watched all 5 seasons so far. Top acting. Of course it can be felt as biased at times because it is about Turkish history and the rise of the Otthoman empire but over all it is very good, I loved it!
    How will this boost Iman is it Islamic or something?
    I thought it was historical

  13. #13
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    My mom was into it before I made her watch GOT after which there was no going back. Plus I think it’s way too long


    Hard to get a handle on this double edged sword

  14. #14
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    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliasad1998 View Post
    My mom was into it before I made her watch GOT after which there was no going back. Plus I think it’s way too long
    GOT is not a family show.

    Ertugul is a long but superb series, can be watched with family and has great moral and religious lessons.

  16. #16
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    Apparently its banned in Saudi Arabia, UAE and other Arab nations. How salty can they get

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    Apparently its banned in Saudi Arabia, UAE and other Arab nations. How salty can they get
    Its watched all the time in the Middle East.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    There were Turkish serials in India too if i recall, my parents used to watch em , was boring to me but i guess desis find something interesting.
    Fatmagul Or something was big..
    When? I don't recall watching any serials other than star Plus or zee as a child. Sony at times. All those were made in India.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    Apparently its banned in Saudi Arabia, UAE and other Arab nations. How salty can they get
    Hmmm because it's from Turkey?

  20. #20
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    I have one question as ramadan has started can i still watch this i mean isn't gonna be haraam and may be can break my fast because of its music and actress with no face covering


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Its watched all the time in the Middle East.
    On illegal streaming services sure.

    https://www.yenisafak.com/en/news/fo...series-3511681

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AamchiMumbaikar View Post
    When? I don't recall watching any serials other than star Plus or zee as a child. Sony at times. All those were made in India.
    There was this Zindagi channel or sth in India which used to air foriegn shows incl Pakistani, Turkish, Irani shows etc. I remember it being forced to not air Pak dramas after uri thing happened.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    On illegal streaming services sure.

    https://www.yenisafak.com/en/news/fo...series-3511681
    As you know in todays world there is no such thing. If you have internet, you watch it - no Govt can hold anyone back.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    As you know in todays world there is no such thing. If you have internet, you watch it - no Govt can hold anyone back.
    That's what I meant ;) Officially they're banned, unofficially ofcourse people will watch it. My comment was more aimed at the governments.

  25. #25
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    Makers of Turkish series 'Ertuğrul' overwhelmed by sweeping response in Pakistan

    The makers of world-famous Turkish drama “Diriliş: Ertuğrul” have said that the team is overwhelmed by the sweeping response after the series garnered heaps of praises with its Urdu-dubbed version currently being aired in Pakistan on Prime Minister Imran Khan’s recommendation.

    The director of the digital for Turkish Radio & Television (TRT), Riyaad Minty spoke to BBC Urdu about the success of the drama in the South Asian nation. Minty is the head of the TRT team working with Pakistan Television to broadcast this show in Pakistan.

    “Ertuğrul has gone viral in Pakistan and its episodes are trending on YouTube in Pakistan every day,” Minty said, adding that there are more than 30 million views and over 600,000 subscribers on Youtube channel.

    “However, with growing popularity, these numbers are expected to climb up in the coming days,” he hoped.

    Originally produced by the Turkish state-owned media company TRT in collaboration with a private company, the historic drama was later dubbed into various languages and was streamed online around the world.

    Created by Mehmet Bozdağ, the popular TV series features Engin Altan Düzyatan in the lead role.

    The series depicts the pre-history of the Ottoman Empire, chronicling around the plight of the nomadic Kayi Oghuz Turkic tribe, led by Ertugrul, the father of Osman I, the founder of the Ottoman Empire.

    “Diriliş: Ertuğrul” is also available with English subtitles on Netflix and YouTube which has contributed to its popularity beyond Turkey.

    PM Imran had shared his views on Turkish series and recommended Pakistani youth to watch it.

    During a recent media interaction, the prime minister said, “Pakistani youth can learn about Islamic history and ethics by watching the Turkish drama.”

    https://www.geo.tv/latest/287012-mak...se-in-pakistan

  26. #26
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    Trending #1 in Pakistan from last 10 days .....
    everyday new episode is uploaded ..... in Urdu dubbing .....



    The Griffins ....

  27. #27
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    Ertugral's Halime Sultan's Instagram account comes under fire from some in Pakistan

    Turkish model and actress Esra Bilgiç, who is popularly known as Halime Sultan for her role in trending Turkish series, Diriliş: Ertuğrul, has been in the news lately. Over the weekend, the fragile egos of few entitled Pakistani men got hurt when they discovered a picture of Esra (posted in March) and what followed was an onslaught of condescending remarks.

    As Halime Sultan, Esra played a poised woman who is always clad in yards of clothes, and perhaps that’s what initially triggered entitled Pakistani men, who found out her Instagram account and bombarded it with their myopic thoughts. Firstly, they failed to comprehend that she is NOT Halime Sultan in real life and can dress up however she wants. However in hindsight, the problem behind this obnoxious meltdown is more deep rooted because even Halime Sultan (the character) has the freedom to wear what she likes.

    Esra’s Instagram comments section is a testament to the hypocrisy of Pakistani men, who should shed off their sense of entitlement and stop women’s moral policing. A woman’s attire, whether on screen or off screen, is none of their business. We are done with this toxic masculinity where men expect a woman to dress according to their parameter of decency (which by the way starts and finishes at women’s attire), but the same masculinity gives free rein to men.

    Dear Pakistani men, it is high time you realize that you are not the master of the universe who can name, shame and control women as and when you like. Unfortunately, the society is biased and you enjoy a certain privilege and it is far-fetched and quite idealistic (utopian perhaps) to expect you to understand it.

    All we can say is that we are sorry, Esra!

    Source: https://www.somethinghaute.com/*****...agram-account/


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

  28. #28
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    Ganji Swag covered it really well!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2yGpBYF3jU


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

  29. #29
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    Fatway baazi aur batoon may awaal, aur amal may sifar!


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

  30. #30
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    One rarely expects the prime minister of a nation to become a cheerleader for a television show. But, in October 2019, that is exactly what Pakistani leader Imran Khan did. And with it, he unleashed a phenomenon that has since gripped his nation and become the talking point among fans and critics alike.

    That the drama series in question is Turkish and not Pakistani only adds to the intrigue.

    Dirilis: Ertugrul is a big-budget series that depicts the prehistory of the Ottoman Empire. It is based on the life of the 13th-century Muslim Oghuz Turk leader, who was the father of Osman I, the founder of the Ottoman Empire.

    The show takes the name of the father and presents his tribe as a band of plucky rebels caught between Christian crusaders, Byzantine warriors, and fearsome Mongols. The scene is set for his tribe to invoke Islam and triumph against all odds. The premise is set, historical facts are manipulated for dramatic effect, and the production values are suitably overblown.

    Since the show first launched in Turkey in 2014, it has become a hit and a money-spinner for all involved, also airing on Netflix, with Turkish and English subtitles, since 2018.

    Perhaps that should have been the end of it. The very nature of our insatiable appetite for TV drama means fans move on to the next big thing. In this case, they did not.

    In praising the show and ordering Pakistan's national broadcaster to dub it into Urdu, Prime Minister Khan unwittingly became, if not the show's executive producer, certainly something close.

    His move made Ertugrul accessible to a far bigger audience and subsequently helped make it even more of a hit TV show internationally. It was instantly popular when it aired with Urdu translation on the first day of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, and it only continues to get bigger.

    Pakistan's contradictory identity
    It was not money that drove the prime minister's decision, but concern that Islamic values were being eroded in Pakistan, and the fact that Pakistan has always paid respect to leaders of the Muslim world.

    Deference to the ancient leaders of the Islamic world has always been part of Pakistan's identity and often the root of its contradictory nature.

    Is Pakistan South Asian Muslim? Or is it based in Arab roots as some leaders have pushed? Or is it closer to Turkish culture in origin?

    Imran Khan blog ertugrul
    Pakistan's Prime Minister Imran Khan, right, and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan [Reuters]
    Ertugrul in many ways speaks to the identity of Muslim Pakistan, but does it speak to a void in that identity that requires affirmation from something that happened in a faraway land, a long time ago?

    "Turkish history and South Asian history are not 'faraway' by any stretch of the imagination," says Mosharraf Zaidi, senior fellow at Pakistani think-tank Tabadlab.

    "For decades, modern secular Turkey and modern Pakistan have been extremely close allies. The bonds are historic, military and strategic and since the emergence of AKP under Turkish leader Erdogan, they have increasingly taken on cultural dimensions. Ertugrul's popularity marks an engagement of Pakistanis with the notion of a glorious Muslim past. It marks neither the affirmation of such a past, nor any crisis of identity. It's just a popular TV show."

    That it is a popular TV show is beyond doubt. The YouTube channel has millions watching. It is seen as a genuine cultural phenomenon that sparks internet memes, countless social media posts and even Pakistani fans getting upset that the actors in the show are not as Islamic as they would like them to be. Comments on the actors' Instagram pages have seen Pakistani fans show ire that some of the female stars wear non-conservative dress and that one actor is seen petting his dog.

    But perhaps even that is a part and parcel of the phenomenon. On the one hand, Pakistani fans are exposed to Islamic history, on the other they are exposed to the culture of modern-day, urban, secular Turkey.

    Ertugrul and male viewers
    This is not the first time that Turkish programmes have become popular outside of Turkey.

    Turkish soap operas set in modern times and based - as soap operas are - around family drama, betrayal and over-the-top acting have also been incredibly popular. But no one has ever referred to them as a cultural phenomenon, perhaps in part because the target audience for soap operas is overwhelmingly female?

    Ertugrul offers an alternative narrative to a country with a majority population of under-35s to connect with a past empire associated with conquest rather than fighting against colonialism.

    Laaleen Sukhera writes extensively on Pakistan and is based in Lahore.

    "Turkish period drama has been popular across the region for a while now," she says.

    "Magnificent Century was dubbed in Urdu too with a predominantly female viewership varying in age. Ertugrul marks the first time that young men make up a significant number of viewers of Turkish programming and that's why it suddenly feels more mainstream and significant in patriarchal Pakistan.

    "Ertugrul offers an alternative narrative to a country with a majority population of under-35s to connect with a past empire associated with conquest rather than fighting against colonialism. It's a soapy period drama but whether it inspires big-budget depictions of subcontinental heroes like Razia Sultan and Chand Bibi remains unclear," she adds.

    Soft power and the Muslim historical narrative
    The fact the prime minister has backed the show with words and action may also speak to his own agenda in establishing Pakistan as a pre-eminent player in the Muslim world.

    He has not been shy in saying that Pakistan, Turkey and Indonesia should establish themselves as leaders. His first front in establishing that goal seems to be cultural and taking control of the Muslim historical narrative. But in doing so, has he played into Turkey's hands and the soft power it wields? By pushing a TV show based around Turkish Ottoman history, is he doing the Turks' bidding for them?

    Ahmer Naqvi is a freelance cultural writer who sees Ertugrul as part of a wider agenda.

    "There is definitely an element of the Pakistani state pushing a certain idea of Islamic history, that focuses on conquest and expansionism and that has a long history of being used as propaganda," he says.

    "This push has come at the expense of even acknowledging the history of what is now settled Pakistan. So you would know about Muslim general Salahuddin but not about Chanakya, who lived in settled Pakistan, so yes, there is valid concern that the state is pushing a wider history and not its own. In general I would love to see the Pakistani state invest in its own cultural industries."

    At its heart, what Ertugrul represents in this scenario is a battle for the soul of the Islamic narrative and for Pakistan's own self-image.

    Does the country have a unique Muslim identity forged via Muslim India, or is it part of the wider history of the Muslim world? The answer to that is what informs its current self-image.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...072503067.html


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  31. #31
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    Maryam Nawaz has leadership qualities similar to Ertuğrul: MPA Hina Pervaiz Butt


    https://tribune.com.pk/story/2221313...a-parvez-butt/



    Everybody is jumping on the hype train now.

    I personally haven't been able to watch more than a few minutes of the Urdu dubbing, might have to look for the original with English subtitles.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirris View Post
    Maryam Nawaz has leadership qualities similar to Ertuğrul: MPA Hina Pervaiz Butt


    https://tribune.com.pk/story/2221313...a-parvez-butt/



    Everybody is jumping on the hype train now.

    I personally haven't been able to watch more than a few minutes of the Urdu dubbing, might have to look for the original with English subtitles.
    What in the world....

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post

    Ahmer Naqvi is a freelance cultural writer who sees Ertugrul as part of a wider agenda.

    "There is definitely an element of the Pakistani state pushing a certain idea of Islamic history, that focuses on conquest and expansionism and that has a long history of being used as propaganda," he says.

    "This push has come at the expense of even acknowledging the history of what is now settled Pakistan. So you would know about Muslim general Salahuddin but not about Chanakya, who lived in settled Pakistan, so yes, there is valid concern that the state is pushing a wider history and not its own. In general I would love to see the Pakistani state invest in its own cultural industries."
    I think there is a long history of ambivalence of place amongst some Muslims of South Asia.

    It is an ambivalence noted in Intizar Hussain’s novel, Basti, when one character states:

    “Yaar, you Muslims are wonderful! You're always looking toward the deserts of Arabia, but for your graves you prefer the shade of India.”

    Or take two of Iqbal’s line from a quatrain:

    Koi dekhe to meri nai-navazi
    Nafs hindi maqam-e-naghma tazi

    We might consider, too, in the nineteenth century the Urdu speaking elite of North India. Many that belonged to this group took pride in their foreign ancestry. Listen to Sayyid Ahmad Khan: “Our nation is of the blood of those who made not only Arabia, but Asia and Europe, to tremble. It is our nation which conquered with its sword the whole of India.”

    Yet at the same time, many of the elite had become attached to their northern Indian homelands. As the historian Chris Bayly noted, especially with respect to qasbah towns, “these elites often sought out a more secure base and tradition within India. As they embellished their small rural seats with mosques, wells and groves, a definite sense of pride in home (watan) and urban tradition began to emerge.”

    As a final example of ambivalence we turn to Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and his idea of Pakistan. On the one hand he steered Pakistan more firmly towards West Asia and emphasised a unity based on Islam. The 1973 constitution for the first time recognised Islam as the ‘State religion of Pakistan’. Yet, at the same time more room was made for a vision of Pakistan as a nation grounded in historic and regional cultures. Concomitant with this the Bhuttos had worshiped regularly at the shrine of Lal Shabaz Qalandar, in Sehwan Sharif. Folk culture was given far more attention, than hitherto had been the case by elite Pakistani leadership.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirris View Post
    Maryam Nawaz has leadership qualities similar to Ertuğrul: MPA Hina Pervaiz Butt


    https://tribune.com.pk/story/2221313...a-parvez-butt/



    Everybody is jumping on the hype train now.

    I personally haven't been able to watch more than a few minutes of the Urdu dubbing, might have to look for the original with English subtitles.
    Is she watching Ertrugal or Money Heist?
    Maybe she meant the character of Saadetin Kopek.

  35. #35
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    I haven't seen the show but is it true that Ertugrul ki London mein kya Pakistan mein bhi koi property nahi hai?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    One rarely expects the prime minister of a nation to become a cheerleader for a television show. But, in October 2019, that is exactly what Pakistani leader Imran Khan did. And with it, he unleashed a phenomenon that has since gripped his nation and become the talking point among fans and critics alike.

    That the drama series in question is Turkish and not Pakistani only adds to the intrigue.

    Dirilis: Ertugrul is a big-budget series that depicts the prehistory of the Ottoman Empire. It is based on the life of the 13th-century Muslim Oghuz Turk leader, who was the father of Osman I, the founder of the Ottoman Empire.

    The show takes the name of the father and presents his tribe as a band of plucky rebels caught between Christian crusaders, Byzantine warriors, and fearsome Mongols. The scene is set for his tribe to invoke Islam and triumph against all odds. The premise is set, historical facts are manipulated for dramatic effect, and the production values are suitably overblown.

    Since the show first launched in Turkey in 2014, it has become a hit and a money-spinner for all involved, also airing on Netflix, with Turkish and English subtitles, since 2018.

    Perhaps that should have been the end of it. The very nature of our insatiable appetite for TV drama means fans move on to the next big thing. In this case, they did not.


    In praising the show and ordering Pakistan's national broadcaster to dub it into Urdu, Prime Minister Khan unwittingly became, if not the show's executive producer, certainly something close.

    His move made Ertugrul accessible to a far bigger audience and subsequently helped make it even more of a hit TV show internationally. It was instantly popular when it aired with Urdu translation on the first day of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, and it only continues to get bigger.


    Pakistan's contradictory identity
    It was not money that drove the prime minister's decision, but concern that Islamic values were being eroded in Pakistan, and the fact that Pakistan has always paid respect to leaders of the Muslim world.

    Deference to the ancient leaders of the Islamic world has always been part of Pakistan's identity and often the root of its contradictory nature.

    Is Pakistan South Asian Muslim? Or is it based in Arab roots as some leaders have pushed? Or is it closer to Turkish culture in origin?

    Imran Khan blog ertugrul
    Pakistan's Prime Minister Imran Khan, right, and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan [Reuters]
    Ertugrul in many ways speaks to the identity of Muslim Pakistan, but does it speak to a void in that identity that requires affirmation from something that happened in a faraway land, a long time ago?

    "Turkish history and South Asian history are not 'faraway' by any stretch of the imagination," says Mosharraf Zaidi, senior fellow at Pakistani think-tank Tabadlab.

    "For decades, modern secular Turkey and modern Pakistan have been extremely close allies. The bonds are historic, military and strategic and since the emergence of AKP under Turkish leader Erdogan, they have increasingly taken on cultural dimensions. Ertugrul's popularity marks an engagement of Pakistanis with the notion of a glorious Muslim past. It marks neither the affirmation of such a past, nor any crisis of identity. It's just a popular TV show."

    That it is a popular TV show is beyond doubt. The YouTube channel has millions watching. It is seen as a genuine cultural phenomenon that sparks internet memes, countless social media posts and even Pakistani fans getting upset that the actors in the show are not as Islamic as they would like them to be. Comments on the actors' Instagram pages have seen Pakistani fans show ire that some of the female stars wear non-conservative dress and that one actor is seen petting his dog.

    But perhaps even that is a part and parcel of the phenomenon. On the one hand, Pakistani fans are exposed to Islamic history, on the other they are exposed to the culture of modern-day, urban, secular Turkey.

    Ertugrul and male viewers
    This is not the first time that Turkish programmes have become popular outside of Turkey.

    Turkish soap operas set in modern times and based - as soap operas are - around family drama, betrayal and over-the-top acting have also been incredibly popular. But no one has ever referred to them as a cultural phenomenon, perhaps in part because the target audience for soap operas is overwhelmingly female?

    Ertugrul offers an alternative narrative to a country with a majority population of under-35s to connect with a past empire associated with conquest rather than fighting against colonialism.

    Laaleen Sukhera writes extensively on Pakistan and is based in Lahore.

    "Turkish period drama has been popular across the region for a while now," she says.

    "Magnificent Century was dubbed in Urdu too with a predominantly female viewership varying in age. Ertugrul marks the first time that young men make up a significant number of viewers of Turkish programming and that's why it suddenly feels more mainstream and significant in patriarchal Pakistan.

    "Ertugrul offers an alternative narrative to a country with a majority population of under-35s to connect with a past empire associated with conquest rather than fighting against colonialism. It's a soapy period drama but whether it inspires big-budget depictions of subcontinental heroes like Razia Sultan and Chand Bibi remains unclear," she adds.

    Soft power and the Muslim historical narrative
    The fact the prime minister has backed the show with words and action may also speak to his own agenda in establishing Pakistan as a pre-eminent player in the Muslim world.

    He has not been shy in saying that Pakistan, Turkey and Indonesia should establish themselves as leaders. His first front in establishing that goal seems to be cultural and taking control of the Muslim historical narrative. But in doing so, has he played into Turkey's hands and the soft power it wields? By pushing a TV show based around Turkish Ottoman history, is he doing the Turks' bidding for them?

    Ahmer Naqvi is a freelance cultural writer who sees Ertugrul as part of a wider agenda.

    "There is definitely an element of the Pakistani state pushing a certain idea of Islamic history, that focuses on conquest and expansionism and that has a long history of being used as propaganda," he says.

    "This push has come at the expense of even acknowledging the history of what is now settled Pakistan. So you would know about Muslim general Salahuddin but not about Chanakya, who lived in settled Pakistan, so yes, there is valid concern that the state is pushing a wider history and not its own. In general I would love to see the Pakistani state invest in its own cultural industries."

    At its heart, what Ertugrul represents in this scenario is a battle for the soul of the Islamic narrative and for Pakistan's own self-image.

    Does the country have a unique Muslim identity forged via Muslim India, or is it part of the wider history of the Muslim world? The answer to that is what informs its current self-image.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...072503067.html

    So its ok for Ertugul to air in English, but these clowns have a problem if it airs in Urdu.

    And to them Watching a tv show from Turkey is a challenge to Pakistan's identity, but its completely ok for these elites to watch Hollywood, where western clothes.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KB View Post
    I think there is a long history of ambivalence of place amongst some Muslims of South Asia.

    It is an ambivalence noted in Intizar Hussain’s novel, Basti, when one character states:

    “Yaar, you Muslims are wonderful! You're always looking toward the deserts of Arabia, but for your graves you prefer the shade of India.”

    Or take two of Iqbal’s line from a quatrain:

    Koi dekhe to meri nai-navazi
    Nafs hindi maqam-e-naghma tazi

    We might consider, too, in the nineteenth century the Urdu speaking elite of North India. Many that belonged to this group took pride in their foreign ancestry. Listen to Sayyid Ahmad Khan: “Our nation is of the blood of those who made not only Arabia, but Asia and Europe, to tremble. It is our nation which conquered with its sword the whole of India.”

    Yet at the same time, many of the elite had become attached to their northern Indian homelands. As the historian Chris Bayly noted, especially with respect to qasbah towns, “these elites often sought out a more secure base and tradition within India. As they embellished their small rural seats with mosques, wells and groves, a definite sense of pride in home (watan) and urban tradition began to emerge.”

    As a final example of ambivalence we turn to Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and his idea of Pakistan. On the one hand he steered Pakistan more firmly towards West Asia and emphasised a unity based on Islam. The 1973 constitution for the first time recognised Islam as the ‘State religion of Pakistan’. Yet, at the same time more room was made for a vision of Pakistan as a nation grounded in historic and regional cultures. Concomitant with this the Bhuttos had worshiped regularly at the shrine of Lal Shabaz Qalandar, in Sehwan Sharif. Folk culture was given far more attention, than hitherto had been the case by elite Pakistani leadership.
    He was talking about the Muslim Ummah. There was no concept of an Indian nation until the British conquered the subcontinent. But there has been a concept of the Muslim Ummah since 7th century.

  38. #38
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    Turkish actress Esra Bilgic has thanked her Pakistani fans for their love and said that she was waiting excitedly to meet them in Pakistan.

    Esra essays the lead role of Halime Sultan, the wife of Ertugrul in the historic drama Diriliş: Ertuğrul or Ertugrul Ghazi that has won the hearts of millions of Pakistani fans with her outstanding performance.

    She turned to Instagram and shared an adorable photo of her on Saturday and Pakistani fans showered love on the endearing post with their appreciatory messages in the comments.

    Responding to one of the comments, Esra wrote, “I would like to say thank you will all my heart for your precious compliments. Your support makes me really happy.”

    She went on to say, “I’m waiting excitedly to meet you all in Pakistan after this period. Take good care of yourselves. Stay in peace and health.”

    To another comment, She said, “lots of love from me to Pakistan.”

    Turkish drama series Ertuğrul has swept over Pakistan with its Urdu-dubbed version airing on small screens and its episodes are trending on YouTube every day.

    The drama series started airing on the state-run Pakistan Television (PTV) on the directives of Prime Minister Imran Khan in Ramadan.

    https://www.geo.tv/latest/288394-ert...ns-in-pakistan
    Last edited by MenInG; 17th May 2020 at 13:35.


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  39. #39
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  40. #40
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    This show is a massive hit in Pakistan. everyone on social media has been posting clips from it.

  41. #41
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    Am hooked on it as well. It's quite fascinating


    "And [remember] when your Lord proclaimed, 'If you are grateful, I will surely increase you [in favor]; but if you deny, indeed, My punishment is severe" - Surah Ibrahim (14:7)

  42. #42
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    Watched few episodes, it's very good tbh but can't commit myself to watch it bcz of it's length, 400+ eps is no joke and then you will have to watch Osman as well as that's the real game

    Btw PTV getting lots of abuses online as they have decided to have only 3 episodes/week rather Episode/Day, it will take centuries for TV audience to watch it

  43. #43
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    Mehmet Bozdag, producer and screen-writer of popular Turkish TV series "Dirilis: Ertugrul", has expressed interest in working with Pakistan on joint projects, according to Turkish media.

    Speaking to state-run Anadolu news agency, Mehmet said Muslims should not only work together in politics and trade but also in culture and the arts.

    “I am surprised that we did not make any collaborations till this day… we call each other brother countries,” he was quoted as saying.

    “However, we have never signed a deal in the field of culture and arts. So then where is the fellowship?” Bozdag said.

    He stressed the need to launch joint projects where producers and actors come together.

    "Dirilis: Ertugrul" is currently being aired on Pakistan Television in Urdu dubbing on the directives of Prime Minister Imran Khan.

    The drama was an instant hit in Pakistan and has set new viewership records on YouTube.

    https://www.geo.tv/latest/290102-ert...-with-pakistan


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  44. #44
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    Turkish actress Esra Bilgic on Friday expressed the hope that she would soon visit Pakistan.

    Taking to Instagram, the "Ertugrul Ghazi" actress shared a video message dedicated to frontline workers fighting the pandemic.

    Esra who plays Halime Sultan in the popular Television series captioned the video which read, "To all my friends and fans from my country and #Pakistan, a beautiful message from a beautiful country. Let’s share this with all frontline workers we know! Hoping to visit soon".

    https://www.geo.tv/latest/290425-ert...utiful-country


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  45. #45
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    It’s probably a good show and I have somehow managed to avoid it even though it is being forced down our throats, but it was embarrassing to see our PM promote it just because he wanted to please his war criminal friend Erdogan.

    You can expect anything from Imran Khan, but one would hope that he would have had enough sense to realize that it was not appropriate for someone in his position to cheerlead a foreign tv show.

    It was laughable to see him call it an accurate description of Islamic history.

    However, a lot of actors who are complaining that it will deviate the nation from our roots don’t really have a point.

    Nothing is stopping them from producing similar content and our public deviated from their roots decades ago by forgetting their subcontinent roots identifying with and embracing the Arabic culture.

    Nevertheless, as the ‘nadeeda’ nation that we are, we have found our newly adopted ancestors in these Turks and actors in the show are also milking it now and for good reason.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    It’s probably a good show and I have somehow managed to avoid it even though it is being forced down our throats, but it was embarrassing to see our PM promote it just because he wanted to please his war criminal friend Erdogan.

    You can expect anything from Imran Khan, but one would hope that he would have had enough sense to realize that it was not appropriate for someone in his position to cheerlead a foreign tv show.

    It was laughable to see him call it an accurate description of Islamic history.

    However, a lot of actors who are complaining that it will deviate the nation from our roots don’t really have a point.

    Nothing is stopping them from producing similar content and our public deviated from their roots decades ago by forgetting their subcontinent roots identifying with and embracing the Arabic culture.

    Nevertheless, as the ‘nadeeda’ nation that we are, we have found our newly adopted ancestors in these Turks and actors in the show are also milking it now and for good reason.
    Why do Pakistanis take credit for Ottoman empire ? do you have anything to be proud of on a similar scale?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Why do Pakistanis take credit for Ottoman empire ? do you have anything to be proud of on a similar scale?
    You cannot always be proud of your history. You can be ashamed of it as well. After all, it all depends on your perspective.

    For example, Bin Qasim is a hero to many because he brought Islam to the subcontinent, but for many Sindhis, he was an Arab plunderer who butchered people for personal glory.

    The problem for a lot of Pakistanis is that they suffer from identity crisis. We have been very successful in erasing our non-Muslim history and the thousands of years of civilization that preceded the advent of Islam in the subcontinent.

    As a result, we latch onto Arabs and Turks and identify ourselves with them because (a) we want to forget about our non-Muslim history and (b) the Muslims of subcontinent have no great achievements.

    A tv show about Ottomans that have absolutely nothing to do with Pakistan or our history is being forced down our throats and has taken the country by storm, but if there is a tv show about the Indus Valley Civilization - the ‘real’ history of the region of Pakistan, hardly anyone would bother to watch it.

    It is natural for religion to influence culture but we have decided to go all the way and completely identify and define our culture with religion.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    You cannot always be proud of your history. You can be ashamed of it as well. After all, it all depends on your perspective.

    For example, Bin Qasim is a hero to many because he brought Islam to the subcontinent, but for many Sindhis, he was an Arab plunderer who butchered people for personal glory.

    The problem for a lot of Pakistanis is that they suffer from identity crisis. We have been very successful in erasing our non-Muslim history and the thousands of years of civilization that preceded the advent of Islam in the subcontinent.

    As a result, we latch onto Arabs and Turks and identify ourselves with them because (a) we want to forget about our non-Muslim history and (b) the Muslims of subcontinent have no great achievements.

    A tv show about Ottomans that have absolutely nothing to do with Pakistan or our history is being forced down our throats and has taken the country by storm, but if there is a tv show about the Indus Valley Civilization - the ‘real’ history of the region of Pakistan, hardly anyone would bother to watch it.

    It is natural for religion to influence culture but we have decided to go all the way and completely identify and define our culture with religion.
    Considering Pakistan was formed based on religion wouldn't it be hypocritical not to associate with religion completely.

    Indians are the ones who have that burden or privilege where region and religion matters except for Sindhis obviously who have no ancestral land w.r.t identification.


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
    -Virat Kohli

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    You cannot always be proud of your history. You can be ashamed of it as well. After all, it all depends on your perspective.

    For example, Bin Qasim is a hero to many because he brought Islam to the subcontinent, but for many Sindhis, he was an Arab plunderer who butchered people for personal glory.

    The problem for a lot of Pakistanis is that they suffer from identity crisis. We have been very successful in erasing our non-Muslim history and the thousands of years of civilization that preceded the advent of Islam in the subcontinent.

    As a result, we latch onto Arabs and Turks and identify ourselves with them because (a) we want to forget about our non-Muslim history and (b) the Muslims of subcontinent have no great achievements.

    A tv show about Ottomans that have absolutely nothing to do with Pakistan or our history is being forced down our throats and has taken the country by storm, but if there is a tv show about the Indus Valley Civilization - the ‘real’ history of the region of Pakistan, hardly anyone would bother to watch it.

    It is natural for religion to influence culture but we have decided to go all the way and completely identify and define our culture with religion.
    We don’t know enough about Indus Valley civilization let alone know about any stories within it to have a show though.

  50. #50
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    I just knew it will be big hit in Pakistan after watching full 5 seasons of it.
    Was disappointed with season 5 but overall the show is great.
    Alhumdulilah know few characters not the main ones from the show through my Tours & made friendship with them, sometimes they join my Tours when I go Turkey.
    Insha'Allah planning to take a couple of them to Pakistan after lockdown.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    You cannot always be proud of your history. You can be ashamed of it as well. After all, it all depends on your perspective.

    For example, Bin Qasim is a hero to many because he brought Islam to the subcontinent, but for many Sindhis, he was an Arab plunderer who butchered people for personal glory.

    The problem for a lot of Pakistanis is that they suffer from identity crisis. We have been very successful in erasing our non-Muslim history and the thousands of years of civilization that preceded the advent of Islam in the subcontinent.

    As a result, we latch onto Arabs and Turks and identify ourselves with them because (a) we want to forget about our non-Muslim history and (b) the Muslims of subcontinent have no great achievements.

    A tv show about Ottomans that have absolutely nothing to do with Pakistan or our history is being forced down our throats and has taken the country by storm, but if there is a tv show about the Indus Valley Civilization - the ‘real’ history of the region of Pakistan, hardly anyone would bother to watch it.

    It is natural for religion to influence culture but we have decided to go all the way and completely identify and define our culture with religion.
    True, but that may be explain why Pakistanis are so attached to the Ottomans or Arabs in general; because they feel like they don't have much to brag about in their history besides giving the Indians a couple of wedgies from time to time.

    In terms of your non-Muslim history, what would you say you are most proud off ?

    I suppose there is that link with regards to religion between Pak and the Ottomans; specifically Sufism which was influential in the spread of Islam in the subcontinent but it is a shame that not everyone practices the tenets of Sufism in Pakistan, perhaps it better implemented in Turkey.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    True, but that may be explain why Pakistanis are so attached to the Ottomans or Arabs in general;
    They were Muslim empire’s fighting on behalf of Islam or at least that what many people believe, that’s enough reason to be attached to them. Some of you are acting if there is some rocket science involved behind it.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    True, but that may be explain why Pakistanis are so attached to the Ottomans or Arabs in general; because they feel like they don't have much to brag about in their history besides giving the Indians a couple of wedgies from time to time.

    In terms of your non-Muslim history, what would you say you are most proud off ?

    I suppose there is that link with regards to religion between Pak and the Ottomans; specifically Sufism which was influential in the spread of Islam in the subcontinent but it is a shame that not everyone practices the tenets of Sufism in Pakistan, perhaps it better implemented in Turkey.
    Pakistan was founded as a country for Muslims and Islam, without those Muslim invasions the creation of Pakistan would never have occurred so of course Pakistanis will feel a sense of camaraderie with Muslim empires and caliphates. If the Islamic invasions never happened we would've been hindus or buddhists thus no Pakistan so I don't know why people ask such asinine rhetorical questions.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    We don’t know enough about Indus Valley civilization let alone know about any stories within it to have a show though.
    Yes and we don't even know if the modern populations are even all that related to the people that inhabited moenjo-daro some 5000 years ago, Pakistani pseudo-intellectuals read a few articles off dawn and then parrot the same lines lmao. History is very complex and shouldn't be oversimplified, unfortunately history is a field of study that everyone thinks they're an expert on because of the emotions tied to the subject.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    He was talking about the Muslim Ummah. There was no concept of an Indian nation until the British conquered the subcontinent. But there has been a concept of the Muslim Ummah since 7th century.
    To provide some context to what I wrote: in Sayyid Ahmad Khan’s life we see different expressions of qaum. Here I focus on two particular meanings. One was an idea of qaum based on social class that revolved around the ruling class culture, with the other being based more widely on the sense of religious fellowship that transcended class.

    In the first view, solidarity was based on an aristocratic sharif culture. It was a culture which put a premium on a particular form of comportment. Part of this culture was also a sense of noble, often foreign, descent. The lives of the Urdu speaking elite in Sayyid Ahmad Khan’s time were linked to government service as many that belonged to this culture were descendants of Mughal service classes. They had particular ideas of what constituted good governance, believing this entailed obtaining counsel from those wise and respectable men of good social standing. In that well known speech in 1887 at Lucknow, Sir Sayyid spoke about adna qaum (‘low community’) and sharif qaum (‘respectable community’) and how degrading it would be to the latter if the former became part of the ruling administration. He continued that “it is very necessary that for the Viceroy's Council the members should be of high social position. I ask you — Would our aristocracy like that a man of low caste or insignificant origin, though he be a B.A. or M.A., and have the requisite ability, should be in a position of authority above them and have power in making laws that affect their lives and property? Never! Nobody would like it.”

    It is in the context that I, rightly or wrongly, interpreted Sir Sayyid’s comments that I quoted earlier, which also came from the same Lucknow speech.

    At the same time it is also clear that Sayyid Ahmad Khan was interested and spoke more widely about the Muslim community as a whole. Though he clearly valued the aristocratic culture to which he belonged, there was also a deep commitment to Islam which went well beyond the concern of an elite class. In his words, as translated by Christian Troll. “It was my duty, as far as it could be done by me, I should do, rightly or wrongly, whatever was in my power to protect Islam and to show forth to people the original luminous face of Islam. My conscience (iman) told me that if I failed to do so I should be a sinner before God.”

    This was a man who belonged to a family that was dedicated to leading figures of Islam at the time, who had grown up immersed in a particular intellectual climate shaped by religious thought. He had spent a great deal of his life writing on matters pertaining to Islam. He highlighted the moral qualities of the Prophet. He wrote on the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians believing them to be relevant when read in the context of the Qur’anic message of tauhid. He wrote extensively on the reliability of Hadith. He expended considerable energy to argue that the divine message could be reconciled to science and that it was wholly within the ambit of reason.

    His contemporary Hali labelled his piety as “terrifying.” For historian David Lelyveld, Sayyid Ahmad Khan was “motivated by a religious passion, a familiar one in the history of Islam, to make the ideal inspired by God’s revelation come alive in the actual experience of the Muslim community.”

    It is no wonder then that a sense of Islamic universalism also formed part of his ideas. It is a universalism revealed in the following quotation that I take from Ayesha Jalal:

    “On April 16, 1869, six days after boarding the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company’s ship Baroda from Bombay, on his way to London, Sayyid Ahmad Khan was enthralled by his first glimpse of the Hejaz. He marveled at God’s grace, which had turned a barren land into the birthplace of the final prophet. Sayyid Ahmad was still in reverie when his fellow English traveler and friend, Major Dodd, the Director of Public Instruction at Nagpur, asked, “Did you see the Prophet’s land?” “Yes,” Sayyid Ahmad replied, “this is Arabia the blessed.” When Dodd commented on a well-traveled Pathan Muslim maid, who was traveling on the ship, as belonging to Sayyid Ahmad’s qaum , he retorted: “Yes, no doubt, our qaum , our qaum , without doubt all human beings are our brothers because they are born of the same father and all Muslims are our religious brothers who believe in one God.”

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    You cannot always be proud of your history. You can be ashamed of it as well. After all, it all depends on your perspective.

    For example, Bin Qasim is a hero to many because he brought Islam to the subcontinent, but for many Sindhis, he was an Arab plunderer who butchered people for personal glory.

    The problem for a lot of Pakistanis is that they suffer from identity crisis. We have been very successful in erasing our non-Muslim history and the thousands of years of civilization that preceded the advent of Islam in the subcontinent.


    As a result, we latch onto Arabs and Turks and identify ourselves with them because (a) we want to forget about our non-Muslim history and (b) the Muslims of subcontinent have no great achievements.

    A tv show about Ottomans that have absolutely nothing to do with Pakistan or our history is being forced down our throats and has taken the country by storm, but if there is a tv show about the Indus Valley Civilization - the ‘real’ history of the region of Pakistan, hardly anyone would bother to watch it.

    It is natural for religion to influence culture but we have decided to go all the way and completely identify and define our culture with religion.
    There are accomplishments which deserve some recognition for example to science and also the efforts of Sufi missionaries who helped spread Islam in the Punjab and maybe Sindh as well unlike the invaders you speak of who actually had ulterior motives, however when the Pak Government aligned with Deobandi organisations they erased the contributions of those missionaries and instead presented the invaders as the regions heroes, it may also have been to push their Hardline exclusivist version of Islam which ultimately contributed to the rise in extremism and deobandi militancy, I only became aware of this because when I was in my boarding school in Pak as a kid in the library I barely could find any books on the regions History prior to the 12th century. However, I think that deobandi movement wasn't so extreme until the Saudis infused their seminaries with Wahabi ideology while they were radicalising Pakistanis and Pathans to fight the soviets because they saw themselves as the superior Muslims and also wanted to blow up Barelvis basically, this may have potentially contributed to origin of the Afghan and Pak Taliban when it came to the radical inspirations and their way to enforce Sharia Law.

    And people have a problem when I have a dislike for all the sucking up Pakistani's and British Pakistani's do towards the Arabs even if we ignore how Asians in general are treated in the ME. While Pak ultimately do need to take accountability, if they did research their own history and the reasons behind the damage caused by extremism in the region they may not be so friendly with certain groups.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    I haven’t seen it but I personally find it hilarious that people think there is a problem with Pakistanis watching and enjoying it


    Hard to get a handle on this double edged sword

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliasad1998 View Post
    I haven’t seen it but I personally find it hilarious that people think there is a problem with Pakistanis watching and enjoying it
    I don't have a problem with them watching and enjoying it, you seem to whinge about what others watch more then anyone on this forum so a bit rich coming from you really I find that most hilarious and I say that as someone who doesn't have the same taste as them.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    I don't have a problem with them watching and enjoying it, you seem to whinge about what others watch more then anyone on this forum so a bit rich coming from you really I find that most hilarious and I say that as someone who doesn't have the same taste as them.
    My post wasn’t even targeted at you.... I largely agree with what you said above. I criticize Saudi Arabia and Pakistanis’ view of it more than most


    Hard to get a handle on this double edged sword

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    True, but that may be explain why Pakistanis are so attached to the Ottomans or Arabs in general; because they feel like they don't have much to brag about in their history besides giving the Indians a couple of wedgies from time to time.

    In terms of your non-Muslim history, what would you say you are most proud off ?

    I suppose there is that link with regards to religion between Pak and the Ottomans; specifically Sufism which was influential in the spread of Islam in the subcontinent but it is a shame that not everyone practices the tenets of Sufism in Pakistan, perhaps it better implemented in Turkey.
    This is pure propaganda that they are attached to Ottomans or Arabs. Pakistanis are attached to the Muslim history of the subcontinent. However since those are fellow Muslims they are interested in learning more of there history since most Pakistanis already have a decent knowledge about Muslim history of the subcontinent.

    There is a lot to be proud of the Muslim history about the subcontinent. From architecture, to poetry, cuisine, clothing, music, etc. Its a rich culture.

  61. #61
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    The prophet
    Khalifa abu Bakr
    Khalifa umar
    Khalifa usman
    Khalifa ali

    All arabs.

    Yet they are heroes to pakistanis as well. Due to religious reasons it's not possible to portray them in a tv show like ertugrul.

    But let's say it was allowed, it would most certainly be a even bigger hit in Pakistan.

    You cant be a non arab muslim and be a ethno nationalist.

    Simply due to the fact that our biggest heroes as mentioned above are arabs.

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    Seems like interest in it has dipped recently.

    Can be a few reasons:
    1) Ramzan over so no lazy days esp with lockdown
    2) Worsening covid situation in the country. Early ramzan when this became a hit, Pakistan had under 10k cases for a while


    #MPGA

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    The prophet
    Khalifa abu Bakr
    Khalifa umar
    Khalifa usman
    Khalifa ali

    All arabs.

    Yet they are heroes to pakistanis as well. Due to religious reasons it's not possible to portray them in a tv show like ertugrul.

    But let's say it was allowed, it would most certainly be a even bigger hit in Pakistan.

    You cant be a non arab muslim and be a ethno nationalist.

    Simply due to the fact that our biggest heroes as mentioned above are arabs.
    there are shows on Caliph Umar (big hit in Arab world) and I believe Ali too,

    There was also a movie "The Message" about the Prophet.


    #MPGA

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    The prophet
    Khalifa abu Bakr
    Khalifa umar
    Khalifa usman
    Khalifa ali

    All arabs.

    Yet they are heroes to pakistanis as well. Due to religious reasons it's not possible to portray them in a tv show like ertugrul.

    But let's say it was allowed, it would most certainly be a even bigger hit in Pakistan.

    You cant be a non arab muslim and be a ethno nationalist.

    Simply due to the fact that our biggest heroes as mentioned above are arabs.
    Not to mention countless sufis of the subcontinent are of Arab origin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Seems like interest in it has dipped recently.

    Can be a few reasons:
    1) Ramzan over so no lazy days esp with lockdown
    2) Worsening covid situation in the country. Early ramzan when this became a hit, Pakistan had under 10k cases for a while
    The show is really long is another reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    You cannot always be proud of your history. You can be ashamed of it as well. After all, it all depends on your perspective.

    For example, Bin Qasim is a hero to many because he brought Islam to the subcontinent, but for many Sindhis, he was an Arab plunderer who butchered people for personal glory.

    The problem for a lot of Pakistanis is that they suffer from identity crisis. We have been very successful in erasing our non-Muslim history and the thousands of years of civilization that preceded the advent of Islam in the subcontinent.

    As a result, we latch onto Arabs and Turks and identify ourselves with them because (a) we want to forget about our non-Muslim history and (b) the Muslims of subcontinent have no great achievements.

    A tv show about Ottomans that have absolutely nothing to do with Pakistan or our history is being forced down our throats and has taken the country by storm, but if there is a tv show about the Indus Valley Civilization - the ‘real’ history of the region of Pakistan, hardly anyone would bother to watch it.

    It is natural for religion to influence culture but we have decided to go all the way and completely identify and define our culture with religion.
    The person with an identity crisis is you, and other "Muslim" liberals. You are not sure if you want to Identify with Islam, and since you live in a Muslim majority country, the idea of being a secular or cultural or liberal Muslim is alien too you. So you think that others must be confused. And therefore anyone who is religious is deemed "Arab". And liberals will mention Sufis even though they have very little knowledge of what they actually preached, and they will mention civilizations like the Indus even though they have zero knowledge about them and would not be able to mention one King of that civilization or what they actually contributed to modern day Pakistan, and the worst thing is you hold Muslims to different standards than every other group.

    Your second problem is that you like right wing Indians have deemed Muslims who came and settled in the subcontinent from Central Asia, Afghanistan, and to a lesser degree Iran and Arabia, as perpetual foreigners. This is why you made the absurd statement that Muslims of Subcontinent have no achievements. So the architecture, the poetry, the cuisine, the literature, art, etc that all the various Muslim empires produced is foreign. You cant accept the idea that Muslims who settled in the subcontinent assimilated the other local Muslims into there culture, and together they created a new civilization, which had elements from both Islamic culture, Persian culture, as well as local subcontinent culture.

    This would be the equivalent of people in England saying that because Anglo-Saxons invaded, Westminster Abbey and Palace of Westminster is not part of there heritage. Or because the Normans invaded the Tower of London and Canterbury Cathedral is not part of there heritage. Or because the Romans invaded Hardians Wall and Bath is not part of there heritage. And that they want to go back to the culture that existed before the Romans arrived. And they want to rename England, which is a name from the Anglo Saxons, and get rid of the English language and go back to the language before they all came.

    But people in England like all sane people, don't view invaders and settlers as perpetual foreigners. They accept that there culture has many influences.


    Last point one is forcing anyone to watch Etrgul. You are free to make your own show about the Indus Valley Civilization. However you are not entitled to stop others from watching what they want because you don't like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Seems like interest in it has dipped recently.

    Can be a few reasons:
    1) Ramzan over so no lazy days esp with lockdown
    2) Worsening covid situation in the country. Early ramzan when this became a hit, Pakistan had under 10k cases for a while
    The TRT Ertugrul by PTV channel is still getting around 15 million views daily on the Urdu-dubbed episodes. https://socialblade.com/youtube/chan...QJBEr0PItkbXgw

    People were quite upset when PTV announced that they won't be releasing episodes daily any more after Ramadan. It will take quite a long time for the whole series to be uploaded at this rate. But the interest still seems to be there.

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    Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the UAE banned Ertugrul long ago, calling it an attempt by Erdogan to portray himself as the Caliph of the Ummah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the UAE banned Ertugrul long ago, calling it an attempt by Erdogan to portray himself as the Caliph of the Ummah.
    Of course they would, they have major political differences with Turkey.

    People still watch it all over the Arab world though.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    there are shows on Caliph Umar (big hit in Arab world) and I believe Ali too,

    There was also a movie "The Message" about the Prophet.
    I didn't know that about that show. But it would never be able to be shown in pakistan. If anything is shown as inaccurate people would get too angry.

    I saw the message, and it was a very well made movie for the time. But they never showed the prophet.

    Where as with ertugrul you can show him, portray a love story, etc... but people wont mind as he isn't held to the high regard of the prophet or the caliphs.

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    It comes down to personal choice really whether you give precedence to your religious, cultural or national identity.

    India has many different religions and cultures but they are taught from day one that nationalism, being an Indian, trumps being a Muslim, Christian, Hindu (although nowadays being an Indian is synonymous with being a Hindu) Tamil, Maratha, Punjabi etc.

    Similarly in Pakistan, you are Pakistani before you are Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi or Pashtun.

    For me personally, my religious identity takes precedence over everything else. A success of an individual Muslim or a Muslim empire is my success - I can identify with it. It tells me that it is possible to achieve great success by walking the right path despite all the hardships you face.

    In our religion, we Muslims are part of an Ummah. All this concept of nations does is try to divide us rather than unite us under a single banner of Islam.

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    Pakistani's going ga-ga over a fictional religious drama which focuses on the Turkish nostalgia for a long-lost empire. Why am I not surprised. Probably the only nation in the world that glorifies its invaders and takes pride in foreign invasions.

    Unfortunately, Pakistani people are unable to forge an identify of their own. They started off aping Saudi culture and now are trying to ape Turkish culture.




    Sua cuique voluptas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliasad1998 View Post
    My post wasn’t even targeted at you.... I largely agree with what you said above. I criticize Saudi Arabia and Pakistanis’ view of it more than most
    My apologies in that regard, it is great to see there are some who are not blind to the hardline movements origins and how it has affected pak, it is important to note it wasn't always that way nor should it be used to generalise billions of people from a religion or its effectiveness when it comes to conveying views peacefully and with tolerance which was achieved by sufi missionaries in the pubjab and sindh, that is something to be proud of although these people did have to try and avoid persecution at times.
    Last edited by shaz619; 7th June 2020 at 22:12.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    Pakistani's going ga-ga over a fictional religious drama which focuses on the Turkish nostalgia for a long-lost empire. Why am I not surprised. Probably the only nation in the world that glorifies its invaders and takes pride in foreign invasions.

    Unfortunately, Pakistani people are unable to forge an identify of their own. They started off aping Saudi culture and now are trying to ape Turkish culture.
    It is rich coming from an Indian.

    You guys go gaga when an American is appointed CEO of a big company in the West simply because he has Indian parents.

    That man usually has nothing else Indian about him. Had he been brought up and raised in India, he would most likely be a RSS member or a molester or both.

    You can take pride in a person’s success on the basis that he has Indian parents. That’s normal and acceptable

    If we take pride in someone’s success who is of our religion and shares our values, we are suffering from an “identity crisis”.

    I fail to understand how that works.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    Pakistani's going ga-ga over a fictional religious drama which focuses on the Turkish nostalgia for a long-lost empire. Why am I not surprised. Probably the only nation in the world that glorifies its invaders and takes pride in foreign invasions.

    Unfortunately, Pakistani people are unable to forge an identify of their own. They started off aping Saudi culture and now are trying to ape Turkish culture.
    P.S. The whole of India went gaga over fictional surgical strikes and the recent air-strikes.

    They went gaga over shooting down a fictional PAF f-16.

    They still suffer the scars of Muslim domination over them that a programme has been launched to rewrite sub-continental history by making movies full of fictions and pass them off as “true stories”.

    Ottoman Empire was a reality and it’s dominance cannot be denied

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegitto1 View Post
    It is rich coming from an Indian.

    You guys go gaga when an American is appointed CEO of a big company in the West simply because he has Indian parents.

    That man usually has nothing else Indian about him. Had he been brought up and raised in India, he would most likely be a RSS member or a molester or both.

    You can take pride in a person’s success on the basis that he has Indian parents. That’s normal and acceptable

    If we take pride in someone’s success who is of our religion and shares our values, we are suffering from an “identity crisis”.

    I fail to understand how that works.
    Most of Indian origin CEOs in west were born and raised in India many did there bachelors from Indian universities.
    And just like every Pakistani is not a jehadi terrorist every Indian is not a RSS suppoter or molester.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    Pakistani's going ga-ga over a fictional religious drama which focuses on the Turkish nostalgia for a long-lost empire. Why am I not surprised. Probably the only nation in the world that glorifies its invaders and takes pride in foreign invasions.

    Unfortunately, Pakistani people are unable to forge an identify of their own. They started off aping Saudi culture and now are trying to ape Turkish culture.
    Those invaders settled and made the subcontinent there home. They are not foreigners. At max you can say the first generation was foreign, but subsequent generations married with the local population.

    Same way people in England do not view Anglo Saxon and French Kings who ruled for like 1,000 years as invaders. They view them as English. They don't view the name England as foreign. They dont view the English language as foreign.

    Our culture from our language, religion, cuisine, poetry, art, music, clothing, etc comes from the Muslim era.

    The only people who think that Pakistanis have no unique culture our Hindus, and far left "Muslims".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegitto1 View Post
    It comes down to personal choice really whether you give precedence to your religious, cultural or national identity.

    India has many different religions and cultures but they are taught from day one that nationalism, being an Indian, trumps being a Muslim, Christian, Hindu (although nowadays being an Indian is synonymous with being a Hindu) Tamil, Maratha, Punjabi etc.

    Similarly in Pakistan, you are Pakistani before you are Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi or Pashtun.

    For me personally, my religious identity takes precedence over everything else. A success of an individual Muslim or a Muslim empire is my success - I can identify with it. It tells me that it is possible to achieve great success by walking the right path despite all the hardships you face.

    In our religion, we Muslims are part of an Ummah. All this concept of nations does is try to divide us rather than unite us under a single banner of Islam.
    Being a Pakistani and Muslim is almost synonymous so Pakistani Muslims dont have too make that choice.

    And being part of a Muslim empire was beneficial to the Muslims of that empire, so its baffling how some think they should identify with a Hindu King over a Muslim King.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptan View Post
    Most of Indian origin CEOs in west were born and raised in India many did there bachelors from Indian universities.
    And just like every Pakistani is not a jehadi terrorist every Indian is not a RSS suppoter or molester.
    The majority of Indians have the view that Muslim Kings, who were born and bred in the subcontinent, are foreign. It does not matter how many generations that they lived there. And the RSS types are the worst because they view Afghanistan as part of Akhand Bharat, which means that even the majority of first generation Muslim Kings should be viewed as local. Instead they lead the charge in branding them foreigners, and viewing more liberal Hindus as appeasers and viewing Muslims as having an identity crisis.


    Does anyone in England say, because the William the Conqueror invaded all the subsequent kings of England are foreign? Or to take it further because the Anglo Saxons invaded, all the Anglo Saxon Kings were foreign? They view those Kings and the culture they created as part of English heritage. Same way they view both the Christian and Pagan heritage of England part of there culture.


    Majority of educated Pakistanis would have no problem in leaning more about the pre Islamic History of the subcontinent. Including things about Hinduisim, like the Mahabharata. However if you make it a zero sum game, where they have to choose between Pre Islamic Heritage and the Muslim heritage, then 99% of them would choose the Muslim one.


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