Wisden Cricket Monthly

Sohail Speaks Yasir's Blog Fazeer's Focus

User Tag List

Results 1 to 80 of 80
  1. #1
    Debut
    Oct 2009
    Venue
    West Ridings
    Runs
    3,494
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Sikhs sue UK Government over refusal to treat them as ethnic group in census

    A long-running campaign to have Sikhs listed as an ethnic group in the UK census has reached the High Court.

    The Sikh Federation UK argues it would be "unlawful" if the 2021 census did not include the option for people to record themselves as being of Sikh ethnicity. Lawyers for the federation told a hearing on Tuesday that not everyone who identifies as an ethnic Sikh would also identify as being Sikh by religion.
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/c...-a4285236.html
    This is absurd. sikhs have long tried emulating Jews. I also believe their number in UK equal Pakistanis. They have sizeable population in London, Midlands, Yorkshire and North East.

  2. #2
    Debut
    Feb 2007
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    3,700
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    But then indians get annoyed..

    Sikhs deserve there own state.

  3. #3
    Debut
    May 2010
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    29,739
    Mentioned
    273 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Why is it important that they are classified as Sikhs? At the moment they are classified as simply Indians I take it?


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  4. #4
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Why is it important that they are classified as Sikhs? At the moment they are classified as simply Indians I take it?
    Because many british sikhs want their own independent country(khalistan) and do not consider themselves as indians.
    If it was good enough for pakistanis ....

    ""Apna punjan hoga, apna sarab hoga""

  5. #5
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain caveman View Post
    Because many british sikhs want their own independent country(khalistan) and do not consider themselves as indians.
    If it was good enough for pakistanis ....

    ""Apna punjan hoga, apna sarab hoga""
    Independent Khalistan where? UK?

  6. #6
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Why is it important that they are classified as Sikhs? At the moment they are classified as simply Indians I take it?
    Are all Sikhs from India? Many are from Pakistan.

  7. #7
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Independent Khalistan where? UK?
    No.
    In indian occupied east punjab!

  8. #8
    Debut
    Jun 2017
    Venue
    Manchester
    Runs
    3,868
    Mentioned
    88 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Lawyers for the federation told a hearing on Tuesday that not everyone who identifies as an ethnic Sikh would also identify as being Sikh by religion.

    I thought Sikhism was a religion though?

  9. #9
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    12,561
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    How can a religion be an ethnicity. They're Asian...

  10. #10
    Debut
    May 2010
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    29,739
    Mentioned
    273 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Are all Sikhs from India? Many are from Pakistan.
    So I guess they could identify as Pakistanis.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  11. #11
    Debut
    Nov 2019
    Runs
    149
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain caveman View Post
    No.
    In indian occupied east punjab!
    Who do you think makes that Khalistan call? A handful of Sikhs in UK or East/West Punjabis?

  12. #12
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arya View Post
    Who do you think makes that Khalistan call? A handful of Sikhs in UK or East/West Punjabis?
    If it was a free vote with no danger of reprisals, i would think the majority of punjabi sikhs would choose indepedence.

    Anyway, not what the thread is about, its about sikhs in britain wanting sikh option in the census.

    So don't get so defensive!

  13. #13
    Debut
    Nov 2019
    Runs
    149
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain caveman View Post
    If it was a free vote with no danger of reprisals, i would think the majority of punjabi sikhs would choose indepedence.

    Anyway, not what the thread is about, its about sikhs in britain wanting sikh option in the census.

    So don't get so defensive!
    I am not getting defensive, there is no need to. Sikh representation in Indian army or other patriotic activities suggests otherwise, but you can keep your opinion, that's fine.

    My point however is whether or not these Sikhs in UK have reasonable grounds for this demand. They want to be treated differently because of an imaginary country that only they demand, not people inhabiting that land. Unlike Kashmiris, it makes their case weak.

    I think what it boils down to in the end is an embarrassment associated with an ethnic connect to a 3rd world country. I would distance myself from India too if poverty, Apu or PewDiePie diss-tracks are people's first thoughts when they hear the word India.

  14. #14
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    6,600
    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Independent Khalistan where? UK?
    No, on the lands in India where they make up the majority.

  15. #15
    Debut
    Jun 2017
    Venue
    Manchester
    Runs
    3,868
    Mentioned
    88 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arya View Post
    I think what it boils down to in the end is an embarrassment associated with an ethnic connect to a 3rd world country. I would distance myself from India too if poverty, Apu or PewDiePie diss-tracks are people's first thoughts when they hear the word India.
    How can you say such things about shining India?

  16. #16
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arya View Post
    I am not getting defensive, there is no need to. Sikh representation in Indian army or other patriotic activities suggests otherwise, but you can keep your opinion, that's fine.

    My point however is whether or not these Sikhs in UK have reasonable grounds for this demand. They want to be treated differently because of an imaginary country that only they demand, not people inhabiting that land. Unlike Kashmiris, it makes their case weak.

    I think what it boils down to in the end is an embarrassment associated with an ethnic connect to a 3rd world country. I would distance myself from India too if poverty, Apu or PewDiePie diss-tracks are people's first thoughts when they hear the word India.
    Brother, you seem a reasonable chap, so i will be reasonsble too.
    I guess many sikhs in india are ok with the status quo and are not too fussed about independence, but if they were given a free choice without any reprisals, i believe they would choose independence. This is just my opinion of course, but it comes from speaking to both british sikhs and indian sikhs visiting the uk

    As for joining the army, the sikhs, like the pathans are a warrior race and joining the army is a natural choice for them.

    The fact remains, both pakistan and india are artificially made countries, which are huge and are made up of many different ethnicities and religions. You will always get a ethnicity or religion or region dominating and the other religions or regions or ethnicities feeling powerless. When this goes too far, thats when the rise of independence occurs.

  17. #17
    Debut
    May 2016
    Runs
    10,234
    Mentioned
    229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Sikhs are not a race. Sikhs are as diverse as the Indians from rest of India.

  18. #18
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    Sikhs are not a race. Sikhs are as diverse as the Indians from rest of India.
    Silly argument!
    There is only one race - the human race!
    All these sudivisions of races are artificial, so if the sikhs want to call themselves a race, then thats their right. They are as much as a race as all the other accepted artificial races.

  19. #19
    Debut
    Feb 2019
    Runs
    3,431
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The precedence has been set. If Jews can claim they are a race, then why not Sikhs? Both have roughly 25M in term of population; both base their ancestry on religion, and their history and race confined to a specific region.

  20. #20
    Debut
    Oct 2013
    Runs
    1,014
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOf1903 View Post
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/c...-a4285236.html
    I also believe their number in UK equal Pakistanis.
    No, they have about a third of the British Pakistani population according to the 2011 census.


  21. #21
    Debut
    May 2014
    Venue
    chennai
    Runs
    25,118
    Mentioned
    641 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    Only the indian disinformation version includes lmaoo. Under the formula of partition, only the Sikh majority would form an independent Khaalistan. There are barely Sikhs in Lahore, so Lahoris wouldn't even vote to join Khaalistan in a referendum so it's hilarious how indian nationalists ignore the demographics and how a referendum is supposed work.
    Their % is reducing in Punjab too , coz so many have immigrated.
    Even officially they have only 58% right now , every year many leaving .

    Even if 75% of the 58% vote in favr it would not be a majority.
    Irrespective India would never set a precedent by giving a referendum, so your referendum is kind of moot, Khalistan would only hold value if all the youngsters donít leave but they donít want to stay in Punjab, in another 10 years I see 5% increase in Biharis and they are nearing to get domicile.

    The other reasons why Khalistan is not really spoken about in Punjab:

    1. Caste violence, Punjab has one of the highest percentage of backward caste, that have a massive dislike for Jatts and have different problems.
    2. Army families donít care and neither will older generations, and older generations are majority in most villages.

  22. #22
    Debut
    May 2014
    Venue
    chennai
    Runs
    25,118
    Mentioned
    641 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Census should include them, its anyway going to benefit Brit-Indians, they will probably have a jump in education and low crime stats.

    Also weren't Sikhs a race in UK? I thought that was already granted..

  23. #23
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    No, on the lands in India where they make up the majority.
    How can citizens of UK decide what will happen in India?

  24. #24
    Debut
    Oct 2009
    Venue
    West Ridings
    Runs
    3,494
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    The precedence has been set. If Jews can claim they are a race, then why not Sikhs? Both have roughly 25M in term of population; both base their ancestry on religion, and their history and race confined to a specific region.
    They've heavily based their identity on Jews. Jews have been around as a race for 4000 yeras. There's a clear difference between Jewish ethnicity and Judaism.

    sikhs however generally are from the Punjab buy don't have a distinct ethnicity. It's a joke. Is there a'Budhhist' ethnicity?

  25. #25
    Debut
    Jan 2015
    Runs
    697
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    How can citizens of UK decide what will happen in India?
    They are Khalistanis living abroad due to fear of persecution from the Indian authorities.

  26. #26
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by msaaim89 View Post
    They are Khalistanis living abroad due to fear of persecution from the Indian authorities.
    They are UK citizens. They have no rights in India.

  27. #27
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    How can citizens of UK decide what will happen in India?
    They can't but what they can do is start a movement which will spread to indian punjab and that movement is for the independence of sikhs and the creation of khalistan.
    Can this happen, can a free khalistan be created? Probably not, but the indian govt is so bothered that it routinely complains to the uk govt about this groups activities. So if the indian govt is that concerned, then who knows?

  28. #28
    Debut
    Jan 2015
    Runs
    697
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    They are UK citizens. They have no rights in India.
    You can't just revoke their citizenship.

  29. #29
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    Lawyers for the federation told a hearing on Tuesday that not everyone who identifies as an ethnic Sikh would also identify as being Sikh by religion.

    I thought Sikhism was a religion though?
    In the west alot of asians(sikhs, hindus, muslims) do not believe in religion and see religion as "fictional", they believe more in science and evolution.
    So these people no longer believe in the religion but are still proud of their heritage i.e. sikh punjabi heritage or muslim punjabi heritage etc.

    So they are ethnic sikhs, muslim etc but do not believe in the religion
    Last edited by Captain caveman; 14th November 2019 at 02:36.

  30. #30
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Down2Earth View Post
    How can a religion be an ethnicity. They're Asian...
    On uk census forms the asian classification is further divided into pakistani, indian , bangladeshi etc.

  31. #31
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Venue
    Jurassic Park.
    Runs
    10,521
    Mentioned
    117 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sikh's are not an ethnic but religious group. Almost all of them are of Indian ethnicity like it or not.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  32. #32
    Debut
    Jun 2017
    Venue
    Manchester
    Runs
    3,868
    Mentioned
    88 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain caveman View Post
    In the west alot of asians(sikhs, hindus, muslims) do not believe in religion and see religion as "fictional", they believe more in science and evolution.
    So these people no longer believe in the religion but are still proud of their heritage i.e. sikh punjabi heritage or muslim punjabi heritage etc.

    So they are ethnic sikhs, muslim etc but do not believe in the religion
    Nah brother, I don't think this is true, a lot of Asians in the UK (be it Sikh, Hindu, Muslim or something else) identify with religion, don't think it's significantly less than elsewhere.

    Believing in science doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be less religious.

  33. #33
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    6,600
    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    They are UK citizens. They have no rights in India.
    That's like saying since Pandits have left Kashmir and are now citizens of other states in India thus they have no rights in Kashmir.

  34. #34
    Debut
    May 2016
    Runs
    10,234
    Mentioned
    229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    That's like saying since Pandits have left Kashmir and are now citizens of other states in India thus they have no rights in Kashmir.
    Kashmir is also India and you are free to move to any state.

  35. #35
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by msaaim89 View Post
    You can't just revoke their citizenship.
    Indian law doesnot allow dual citizenship.

  36. #36
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    That's like saying since Pandits have left Kashmir and are now citizens of other states in India thus they have no rights in Kashmir.
    There is no states citizenship in India.

  37. #37
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain caveman View Post
    They can't but what they can do is start a movement which will spread to indian punjab and that movement is for the independence of sikhs and the creation of khalistan.
    Can this happen, can a free khalistan be created? Probably not, but the indian govt is so bothered that it routinely complains to the uk govt about this groups activities. So if the indian govt is that concerned, then who knows?
    If any country allows its citizens to interfere and try start a separatist movement in another country, ofcourse the other country will raise that issue.

    If UK govt is so interested in Khalistan, they can make one in UK.

  38. #38
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    6,600
    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    Kashmir is also India and you are free to move to any state.
    but then pandits shouldn't be allowed to vote in a Kashmir referendum since they're no longer residents of Kashmir.

  39. #39
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    6,600
    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    There is no states citizenship in India.
    Except in a referendum only a residents of an area can participate. Of course states don't have citizenship laws but they do in fact have domicile laws e.g somebody living another city can't just go to your neighborhood and vote in your constituency. If British-Indian Sikhs shouldn't have a right to vote in a referendum in their ancestral state then Pandits should also not be allowed to vote a Kashmir referndum if they're residents of another state. Periodt.



    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    If any country allows its citizens to interfere and try start a separatist movement in another country, ofcourse the other country will raise that issue.

    If UK govt is so interested in Khalistan, they can make one in UK.
    As if India didn't support a separatist insurgency in East Pakistan and later Sri Lanka

  40. #40
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    If any country allows its citizens to interfere and try start a separatist movement in another country, ofcourse the other country will raise that issue.

    If UK govt is so interested in Khalistan, they can make one in UK.
    Always defensive. If the sikh immigrants, who have seeked assylum in the uk because of indian aggression.and persecution, want to protest against india, then they have every right to.
    What you don't understand is that in a free and democratic country, peaceful protests are allowed. Obviously, india is not a free country and a fake democracy.

  41. #41
    Debut
    Jan 2016
    Runs
    929
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Are they the only warrior race among punjabis

  42. #42
    Debut
    Oct 2009
    Venue
    West Ridings
    Runs
    3,494
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornbill View Post
    Are they the only warrior race among punjabis
    It's ironic that having claimed to eradicated 'caste', sikhs, who were khatri elevated 'jatt' status. Suddenly, rural farmers were given an elite status whereas Brahmin, Rajput etc are traditionally the highest classes. I find the whole notion of sikhism contradictory. Its empire desecrated mosques, its founder insulted Islam and the Kaba, it seekes to attack Islam at every opportunity, goes directly against Halal. If anything, a person of sikh heritage may still harbor the core beliefs but not act on them.

  43. #43
    Debut
    Oct 2009
    Venue
    West Ridings
    Runs
    3,494
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornbill View Post
    Are they the only warrior race among punjabis
    They've cultivated a perfect persona. Claim to be marginalised but are the stock image of a minority. Appear in almost every advert, have a global music presence even getting a Punjabi song in the mainstream music scene. Which is absurd but they've got traction.

    The sikh empire used European mercenaries to enforce its power. Avitabile is the most famous .

  44. #44
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    Except in a referendum only a residents of an area can participate. Of course states don't have citizenship laws but they do in fact have domicile laws e.g somebody living another city can't just go to your neighborhood and vote in your constituency. If British-Indian Sikhs shouldn't have a right to vote in a referendum in their ancestral state then Pandits should also not be allowed to vote a Kashmir referndum if they're residents of another state. Periodt.





    As if India didn't support a separatist insurgency in East Pakistan and later Sri Lanka
    1.Who made these laws on Kashmir? You? There is diff between moving to another state and taking citizenship of another country.

    2. I dont see Bangladesh making any compaints? Show me one.

    India banned LTTE long before Sri lanka did.

  45. #45
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain caveman View Post
    Always defensive. If the sikh immigrants, who have seeked assylum in the uk because of indian aggression.and persecution, want to protest against india, then they have every right to.
    What you don't understand is that in a free and democratic country, peaceful protests are allowed. Obviously, india is not a free country and a fake democracy.


    There is a difference between protest and fanning separatism.

    Ofcourse you have no idea since pakistani origin people think terrorists in kashmir are freedom fighters.

  46. #46
    Debut
    Jan 2015
    Runs
    697
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    There is a difference between protest and fanning separatism.

    Ofcourse you have no idea since pakistani origin people think terrorists in kashmir are freedom fighters.
    Maybe it's got to the point were peaceful protests and requests for equal rights are being completely ignored?

    If they want seperatism, it just shows how much of a sham India is when it comes to rights.

  47. #47
    Debut
    Apr 2019
    Runs
    3,208
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punjabi Hindus and Punjabi Muslims belong to the same ethnic group as 95% of all Sikhs around the globe, and since Punjabi Hindus and Muslims are referred to as Asians, it would make no sense for Sikhs to have their own ethnic group.

  48. #48
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by msaaim89 View Post
    Maybe it's got to the point were peaceful protests and requests for equal rights are being completely ignored?

    If they want seperatism, it just shows how much of a sham India is when it comes to rights.
    UK citizens demanding rights in India? How does that work?

    How difficult it is to understand that UK citizens have no right to demand anything in India, and their attempts to fan any separatist movement is againist laws.

  49. #49
    Debut
    Jan 2015
    Runs
    697
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    UK citizens demanding rights in India? How does that work?

    How difficult it is to understand that UK citizens have no right to demand anything in India, and their attempts to fan any separatist movement is againist laws.
    Just because they they had to flee abroad due to Indian persecution, doesn't change the fact that they are Khalistanis.

  50. #50
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    There is a difference between protest and fanning separatism.

    Ofcourse you have no idea since pakistani origin people think terrorists in kashmir are freedom fighters.
    Seriously!
    Dude people can hold protests for the liberation of their homeland.
    The protests must be peaceful.

    I don't speak much on kashmir, because no one will like what i say. Basically, i am a firm believer that the UN should force both pakistan and india to give up their occupied kashmiris land and let the kashmiris form their own country.
    This country should be for all kashmiris including the kashmiri pandits.

    But this is a pipedream and will never happen.
    The kashmiri people have a right for peaceful protest , without the indian army and indian security forces usng violence against them and gang raping kashmiri women and girls!
    Anyway, i don't want to derail this thread.

    I told you before, we are proud british pakistanis, but our heritage is from indian punjab, jalundhar and my mothers family is from mumbai.
    Both my parents were born in india AFTER partition and all 4 of my granparents were born in india before partition.
    After that i guess theres only one thing to say








    PAKISTAN ZINDABAD!!!

  51. #51
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by msaaim89 View Post
    Just because they they had to flee abroad due to Indian persecution, doesn't change the fact that they are Khalistanis.
    They dont hold indian citizen ship. That ends it. Thats the law.They can demand their whatever in the country of their citizenship.

    Persecution? Lol. Sikhs are among the most well off community in India. There isnt a high post India sikhs havent held.

  52. #52
    Debut
    Jan 2015
    Runs
    697
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    They dont hold indian citizen ship. That ends it. Thats the law.They can demand their whatever in the country of their citizenship.

    Persecution? Lol. Sikhs are among the most well off community in India. There isnt a high post India sikhs havent held.
    If the indian authorities decide to revoke citizenship after forcing peaceful protesters to flee the country, that is a stain on India. Don't presume everyone ignores their plight.

    One Indian joining BNP doesn't make it an all inclusive party.

    If you were to allow a referendum, you know damn well, Sikhs would rather go it alone.

  53. #53
    Debut
    Oct 2009
    Venue
    West Ridings
    Runs
    3,494
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    They dont hold indian citizen ship. That ends it. Thats the law.They can demand their whatever in the country of their citizenship.

    Persecution? Lol. Sikhs are among the most well off community in India. There isnt a high post India sikhs havent held.
    I find Pakistanis supporting 'khalistan' absurd. They'll be marching through kartar trying to regain Lahore and Rawalpindi... Pakistanis dislike o Indian and by extension Hindus has warped their thinking. sikhs are not Pakistan's friend.

    What next BTW, surely British Pakistanis of Kashmiri extraction have more claim?.

  54. #54
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by msaaim89 View Post
    If the indian authorities decide to revoke citizenship after forcing peaceful protesters to flee the country, that is a stain on India. Don't presume everyone ignores their plight.

    One Indian joining BNP doesn't make it an all inclusive party.

    If you were to allow a referendum, you know damn well, Sikhs would rather go it alone.
    Who did India forced to flee?

    Whenever any Indian citizen takes citizenship of another country, he or she automatically lose Indian citizenship. India doesnot allow dual citizenship. It is applicable on everyone.

    Who is this everyone? What another country does for its citizens in its territory, without interfering in India, is between that country and its citizen.

    The last Indian PM was sikh. Sikhs have been army chiefs, presidents, Chief justice of India etc etc.

    What referendum? Non indian citizenship Sikhs holding any referendum in UK or US has nothing to do with India.

  55. #55
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOf1903 View Post
    I find Pakistanis supporting 'khalistan' absurd. They'll be marching through kartar trying to regain Lahore and Rawalpindi... Pakistanis dislike o Indian and by extension Hindus has warped their thinking. sikhs are not Pakistan's friend.

    What next BTW, surely British Pakistanis of Kashmiri extraction have more claim?.
    Why?
    I am pure punjabi, my mother and father and all 4 of my grandparents and there parents etc are from punjab. Our family was spread all over what is modern day pakistan punjab and indian punjab.
    Punjab has always been majority muslim, for at least the last 1000 years, sikhs have only existed in punjab for approx 500 years. And most of these sikhs are originally from punjabi muslims heritage.
    Moreso, sikhs in punjab are what 25 million and muslims punjabis are at least 100 million. So sikhs can only claim there half of punjab, they cant claim lahore(where most of my extended family now reside) or any part of pakistani punjab!

    By the way, i dont accept rawalpindi as a part of punjab, it is a part of the pothwari plateau and those people are potwaris, not punjabis, the british extended the boundaries of punjab, but this doesnt make them ethnically punjabi.

  56. #56
    Debut
    Nov 2019
    Runs
    157
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    If any country allows its citizens to interfere and try start a separatist movement in another country, ofcourse the other country will raise that issue.

    If UK govt is so interested in Khalistan, they can make one in UK.
    I am an Indian, live in Central London. Trust me, except Brexit and geo political issues in United States, this (British) govt don't give a two hoots about anything else...let alone third world issues like Khalistan and Kashmir. LMAO.

    As far as protest is concerned, there are some sort of protest in Britain everyday. Just go out of Westminster station, you will find some group from some random country is protesting about something. Some goes peacefully abd few turns violent, like the protest in front of Indian embassy in Aldwich on 15th Aug where police needed to fire tear gas since protestors turned violent and were throwing eggs/coke cans on innocent women/children who came to celebrate Independence day peacefully.

    But overall, British govt has no stance on any of these protests and looks into them as perks of a democratic country. Good thing is Indian govt understands these (harmless overseas protests) too and dont get swayed away by what is happening in Britain or America. They do what is correct for the nation as any democratic nation should.

  57. #57
    Debut
    Feb 2005
    Venue
    OZtRaLeYah
    Runs
    16,501
    Mentioned
    109 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    but then pandits shouldn't be allowed to vote in a Kashmir referendum since they're no longer residents of Kashmir.
    But, Pakistan aint getting Indian Kashmir nor are they getting independence from India


    "You want Philly, Philly ? " Nicholas Edward Foles

  58. #58
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bel_Homme View Post
    I am an Indian, live in Central London. Trust me, except Brexit and geo political issues in United States, this (British) govt don't give a two hoots about anything else...let alone third world issues like Khalistan and Kashmir. LMAO.

    As far as protest is concerned, there are some sort of protest in Britain everyday. Just go out of Westminster station, you will find some group from some random country is protesting about something. Some goes peacefully abd few turns violent, like the protest in front of Indian embassy in Aldwich on 15th Aug where police needed to fire tear gas since protestors turned violent and were throwing eggs/coke cans on innocent women/children who came to celebrate Independence day peacefully.

    But overall, British govt has no stance on any of these protests and looks into them as perks of a democratic country. Good thing is Indian govt understands these (harmless overseas protests) too and dont get swayed away by what is happening in Britain or America. They do what is correct for the nation as any democratic nation should.
    I agreed with everything you said til the last paragraph. The indian govt definetly gets hot under the collar and bothered by theses protests and tries to get the uk to ban these protests. The uk government justs ignores india's request.

  59. #59
    Debut
    Oct 2013
    Runs
    1,014
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain caveman View Post
    Why?
    I am pure punjabi, my mother and father and all 4 of my grandparents and there parents etc are from punjab. Our family was spread all over what is modern day pakistan punjab and indian punjab.
    Punjab has always been majority muslim, for at least the last 1000 years, sikhs have only existed in punjab for approx 500 years. And most of these sikhs are originally from punjabi muslims heritage.
    Moreso, sikhs in punjab are what 25 million and muslims punjabis are at least 100 million. So sikhs can only claim there half of punjab, they cant claim lahore(where most of my extended family now reside) or any part of pakistani punjab!
    No, Punjab only became majority Muslim around 100 years ago. The vast majority of Sikhs are descended from Punjabi Hindus.

  60. #60
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TSA321 View Post
    No, Punjab only became majority Muslim around 100 years ago. The vast majority of Sikhs are descended from Punjabi Hindus.
    Have you any sources for your claim?
    Most hindu panjabis actually converted to the religion of Ravadassi, commonly known as chamars a distortions of the word kumars.
    Sikhs are mostly muslims converts.
    And the punjab region has not been hindu majority for centuries.
    Last edited by Captain caveman; 14th November 2019 at 14:58.

  61. #61
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain caveman View Post
    Have you any sources for your claim?
    Most hindu panjabis actually converted to the religion of Ravadassi, commonly known as chamars a distortions of the word kumars.
    Sikhs are mostly muslims converts.
    And the punjab region has not been hindu majority for centuries.
    And its debatable whether punjab had ever had a hindu majority.

  62. #62
    Debut
    Oct 2013
    Runs
    1,014
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain caveman View Post
    Have you any sources for your claim?
    Most hindu panjabis actually converted to the religion of Ravadassi, commonly known as chamars a distortions of the word kumars.
    Sikhs are mostly muslims converts.
    And the punjab region has not been hindu majority for centuries.
    See below

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punj...British_India)

  63. #63
    Debut
    Nov 2019
    Runs
    157
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain caveman View Post
    I agreed with everything you said til the last paragraph. The indian govt definetly gets hot under the collar and bothered by theses protests and tries to get the uk to ban these protests. The uk government justs ignores india's request.
    Trust me, it dont. Ofcourse if embassy is attacked, Indian FM will definitely raise the concern with Britain. But Indian govt don't give two hoots about some random protests in Britain...LMAO.

  64. #64
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TSA321 View Post
    Your scorce only goes back to 1881 and has
    muslims 47.6%
    hindus 43.3%
    sikhs 8.2%
    Of the population of british punjab.

    1. No way of knowing when muslims came into majority, 100 years or 1000 years ago.

    2. This is refering to british punjab . The british extended the boundaries of punjab and hence would explain the low sikh population % and the high hindu population %.
    I was referring to the original punjab, before british tampering with the state.

  65. #65
    Debut
    May 2010
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    29,739
    Mentioned
    273 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOf1903 View Post
    I find Pakistanis supporting 'khalistan' absurd. They'll be marching through kartar trying to regain Lahore and Rawalpindi... Pakistanis dislike o Indian and by extension Hindus has warped their thinking. sikhs are not Pakistan's friend.

    What next BTW, surely British Pakistanis of Kashmiri extraction have more claim?.
    Agree, the whole Khalistan drama is a nonsense. If you were going to talk about a separate state it would be Punjab itself, but that spans Pakistan as well.

    Anyway, this isn't even relevant, this topic is about Sikhs wanting to be recognised as a distinct ethnicity in the UK, nothing to do with Khalistan. First make your Khalistan in India, then come back and ask for recognition over here.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  66. #66
    Debut
    May 2014
    Venue
    chennai
    Runs
    25,118
    Mentioned
    641 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOf1903 View Post
    It's ironic that having claimed to eradicated 'caste', sikhs, who were khatri elevated 'jatt' status. Suddenly, rural farmers were given an elite status whereas Brahmin, Rajput etc are traditionally the highest classes. I find the whole notion of sikhism contradictory. Its empire desecrated mosques, its founder insulted Islam and the Kaba, it seekes to attack Islam at every opportunity, goes directly against Halal. If anything, a person of sikh heritage may still harbor the core beliefs but not act on them.
    I donít know how it is in UK, they are much more sensible in India and many Punjabis down south even have Halal restaurants because it makes business sense.
    Jatts do have a notion of superiority but many Punjabis have started calling them up on it.

  67. #67
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Sikhs are not muslim converts. Sikhs were as anti Muslim as it would get. Sikhs were mainly hindu converts.

  68. #68
    Debut
    May 2010
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    29,739
    Mentioned
    273 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    It's a weird dynamic between Sikhs and Pakistanis in the UK, I grew up with a few, and on the one hand there was some unspoken religious tension, but at the same time there was also so much similarity in outlook and culture that we quite often ended up in the same circles.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  69. #69
    Debut
    Oct 2013
    Runs
    1,014
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain caveman View Post
    Your scorce only goes back to 1881 and has


    1. No way of knowing when muslims came into majority, 100 years or 1000 years ago.
    It clearly shows that Muslims became a majority between 1901 and 1911. Majority = more than 50%.

  70. #70
    Debut
    May 2014
    Venue
    chennai
    Runs
    25,118
    Mentioned
    641 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Sikhs are not muslim converts. Sikhs were as anti Muslim as it would get. Sikhs were mainly hindu converts.
    Before and during partition , there was custom in many Punjabi Hindu families to make one son a Sikh.

  71. #71
    Debut
    May 2014
    Venue
    chennai
    Runs
    25,118
    Mentioned
    641 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    It's a weird dynamic between Sikhs and Pakistanis in the UK, I grew up with a few, and on the one hand there was some unspoken religious tension, but at the same time there was also so much similarity in outlook and culture that we quite often ended up in the same circles.
    Same culture different religions. Probably the only culture to have 4 different religions.

  72. #72
    Debut
    Mar 2005
    Runs
    1,505
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    It's a weird dynamic between Sikhs and Pakistanis in the UK, I grew up with a few, and on the one hand there was some unspoken religious tension, but at the same time there was also so much similarity in outlook and culture that we quite often ended up in the same circles.
    so true I had similar experience and also because I'm Jat caste we had that connection too, very weird considering 70 years prior we were killing each other.

  73. #73
    Debut
    Mar 2011
    Runs
    32,520
    Mentioned
    1781 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    Before and during partition , there was custom in many Punjabi Hindu families to make one son a Sikh.
    Actually that started during mughal rule. It was basically to create an army againist the muslims..
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 15th November 2019 at 02:47.

  74. #74
    Debut
    Oct 2009
    Venue
    West Ridings
    Runs
    3,494
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    Before and during partition , there was custom in many Punjabi Hindu families to make one son a Sikh.
    https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-or-...s-for-the-same

    Hm

  75. #75
    Debut
    Oct 2009
    Venue
    West Ridings
    Runs
    3,494
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's intriguing. I reckon most Punjabi Muslims swayed by caste are closer to sikhism than sikh are Muslims..

  76. #76
    Debut
    May 2014
    Venue
    chennai
    Runs
    25,118
    Mentioned
    641 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOf1903 View Post
    I have family who are Sikh my maternal grandmother Sikh. If you go to Haridwar the holy place for Punjabi Hindus one would see Sikhs putting Ashes away of their probably one Hindu grand parent.
    The intermixing is not because of intermarriage alone.

  77. #77
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TSA321 View Post
    It clearly shows that Muslims became a majority between 1901 and 1911. Majority = more than 50%.
    We are using different definitions of majority.
    You are using majority as greater than 50% of the total population.

    I am using majority to mean the largest % of the population.

  78. #78
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    6,600
    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TSA321 View Post
    It clearly shows that Muslims became a majority between 1901 and 1911. Majority = more than 50%.
    Muslims were still a plurality long before they formed an absolute majority.

  79. #79
    Debut
    May 2019
    Runs
    3,575
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TSA321 View Post
    It clearly shows that Muslims became a majority between 1901 and 1911. Majority = more than 50%.
    You are using majority in the form of used in ELECTORAL SYSTEMS.

    The actual definition of the word majority is as follows:

    Majority
    noun
    the greater number.

  80. #80
    Debut
    Jun 2017
    Venue
    Manchester
    Runs
    3,868
    Mentioned
    88 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    It's a weird dynamic between Sikhs and Pakistanis in the UK, I grew up with a few, and on the one hand there was some unspoken religious tension, but at the same time there was also so much similarity in outlook and culture that we quite often ended up in the same circles.
    Quote Originally Posted by irfan View Post
    so true I had similar experience and also because I'm Jat caste we had that connection too, very weird considering 70 years prior we were killing each other.
    The other ironic thing is, along with Hindus, we can now all fight as a united group under the same armed forces for the UK.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •