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  1. #1
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    Is Pakistan's Test cricket in irreversible decline?

    5 wins, 1 draw and 17 losses in 23 matches in the last 3 years against top 8 test teams. In this period , there have been 2 runs of 6 consecutive losses(2016-17 and the current run) and I don't think any Pakistani test team has been as low as 80 points in the rankings. Discuss!


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  2. #2
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    They are missing MisYou and Amir big time and in a regrouping phase. Once the team is settled, they will come good.

  3. #3
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    But but Pak fought under Mickey and Sarfraz.

    On a serious note nothing in sports is irreversible except age.

  4. #4
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    Well with Misbah in charge expect three more years of losses. So I expect us to be associates level in the next 3 years.

  5. #5
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    Pakistan fought bravely against Australia in Australia

    Babar Azam,Shan Masood,Asad Shafiq,Mohammed Rizwan were all among runs. In Pakistan/UAE,Haris Sohail and Iftikhar will surely come good. The pace bowling talent they have is world class. Yasir has already won them so many games in UAE and with the support of another spinner,the results are going to only get better. Mickey made a huge mistake by not playing 2 spinners against SL which was the reason behind their embarrassment.Misbah won't commit such mistake. Pakistan will whitewash both Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and we all know how dangerous Pakistan team can be once they have momentum on their side.

  6. #6
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    we have been in worse positions and bounced back, this is pakistan.

  7. #7
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    Nope, just need to clean up that middle order of batsmen averaging in the range of 35-40 in FC, to guys averaging 45+ in FC and Pakistan's fortunes will change drastically.

  8. #8
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    Just need to find one more batsman like Babar and develop Shaheen and Naseem. Pakistan cricket will be back on track in the next 2 years.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    But but Pak fought under Mickey and Sarfraz.

    On a serious note nothing in sports is irreversible except age.
    You go on about Mickey in every thread

    The reason for our decline is not Mickey it's the retirement of misbah and Younis

    Proper to that we had Saeed ajmal who gave us an advantage in UAE

    So could you care to explain how is it Mickey's fault that Saeed ajmal got dropped for chucking and misbah and Younis retired?

    Another question I have is why didn't misbah groom anyone he well knew he and Younis will be retiring

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    But but Pak fought under Mickey and Sarfraz.

    On a serious note nothing in sports is irreversible except age.
    Spot on. Mickey and Sarfraz were absolutely clueless in Tests. ODIs too post the CT fluke.

    Who in their right mind wouldn't play proper spinners on the home grounds? Lack of any cricketing sense and tactics.
    @emranabbas would go to any lengths to defend Mickey Arthur. He ignores how clueless Mickey was in Test cricket, didn't play the right players nor with the right strategy. Losses at home are inexcusable.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Spot on. Mickey and Sarfraz were absolutely clueless in Tests. ODIs too post the CT fluke.

    Who in their right mind wouldn't play proper spinners on the home grounds? Lack of any cricketing sense and tactics.
    @emranabbas would go to any lengths to defend Mickey Arthur. He ignores how clueless Mickey was in Test cricket, didn't play the right players nor with the right strategy. Losses at home are inexcusable.
    You do realise, Misbah was in charge of our ODI team from 2011-2015.

    He played in two tournaments.

    Champions Trophy 2013, we lost all of our games.

    World Cup 2015, we exited in the quarter final.

    2 years after he retires from ODI's, we win the Champions Trophy with YOUNG players. The ones he never selected during his tenure.

    He wasted years of Babar Azam's, Haris Sohail's, and Zafar Gohar's career.

    He is the WORST man to lead Pakistan. Pakistan cricket will be dead in a few years with him in charge.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    On a serious note nothing in sports is irreversible except age.
    This. Nothing is irreversible or constant in sports.

  13. #13
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    Cornered tiger time, boys!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet Drive View Post
    He is the WORST man to lead Pakistan. Pakistan cricket will be dead in a few years with him in charge.
    On the contrary, I think Misbah will revive Pakistan in test format, especially at home. He knows how to win in subcontinent and Pakistan team's success and rise to #1 was during the tenure of Misbah. He was also responsible in setting up the UAE fortress and was an amazing captain of spinners.

  15. #15
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    @Bullet Drive

    You have this habit of posting selective things just to build an argument in your favor. You're doing it again.

    I'm disappointed.

    Misbah took us to #1 Test ranking.

    We became the only Asian nation to beat SA in SA. First time in the history.

    Beat IND in IND.

    Won the Asia Cup. Where Mickey got humiliated soon after the CT fluke. He has nothing to show apart from that CT fluke.

    Took us on our longest losing streak in ODIs. We forgot how to win. He kept repeating we're a proud team that hates losing.

    We forgot how to win Test matches! We for the time in years started losing home Tests.

    SL whitewashed us. At our home. Became #7 in Tests.

    All inexcusable.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forward Defensive Push View Post
    On the contrary, I think Misbah will revive Pakistan in test format, especially at home. He knows how to win in subcontinent and Pakistan team's success and rise to #1 was during the tenure of Misbah. He was also responsible in setting up the UAE fortress and was an amazing captain of spinners.
    Good things are ahead brother.

    Just wait. They'll come. He has the time on his side to implement some good tactics.

    We will start winning Tests again. A lost art since Mickey.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forward Defensive Push View Post
    On the contrary, I think Misbah will revive Pakistan in test format, especially at home. He knows how to win in subcontinent and Pakistan team's success and rise to #1 was during the tenure of Misbah. He was also responsible in setting up the UAE fortress and was an amazing captain of spinners.
    Yes, anyone can captain when you have a chucking Saeed Ajmal at your disposal, alongside a chucking Hafeez!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet Drive View Post
    Yes, anyone can captain when you have a chucking Saeed Ajmal at your disposal, alongside a chucking Hafeez!
    Ajmal was tested multiple times before 2015 and his action was deemed legal at that time. Take your untruthfulness and whining elsewhere.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Good things are ahead brother.

    Just wait. They'll come. He has the time on his side to implement some good tactics.

    We will start winning Tests again. A lost art since Mickey.
    If we win the Sri Lanka series, the same posters who are mocking Misbah would come back and make appreciation threads for him.

  20. #20
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    Apart from Babar we have a very limited number of quality young batsmen but since Misbah took over as head coach and selector with no one to answer its safe to say their career will be wasted. Misbah will bring useless Shehzad, or oldies like Farhat, Butt... in the team again and again. Our team will continue loose but this with much lower teams.
    I might be wrong but under Misbah in charge for 6-8 years there is no way Pakistan team can bounce back. Its finish!!!!! Big thanks to Wasim Khan under whom in England a 2nd division team was last multiple times.
    Misbah's fans are either delusional or just mocking our team.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMSS View Post
    Cornered tiger time, boys!
    How much time does the tiger need to spend in the corner btw?
    How many different corners does the tiger need to occupy before it decides to pounce forth?
    And whats with this tiger and the corners?
    Does it like corners?? A corner-fetish of sorts.
    Odd.
    One wonders if its a tiger afterall??

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by shantanu View Post
    How much time does the tiger need to spend in the corner btw?
    How many different corners does the tiger need to occupy before it decides to pounce forth?
    And whats with this tiger and the corners?
    Does it like corners?? A corner-fetish of sorts.
    Odd.
    One wonders if its a tiger afterall??

  23. #23
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    They have lost interest in tests, so yes could be. I see Junaids posting in 2029 as well making some random scenarios of selection from domestics to make a case as to how PCT can perform in Aus in tests.


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
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  24. #24
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    We need to win few tests and get a settled combination going

    Retirement of Younus and Yasir losing his mojo is taking toll along with some clueless test tactics by Mickey. Hopefully misbah wonít commit similar mistakes in home tests.


    All good teams become good after gaining confidence by performing in home tests. Other than beating a depleted Aussie side in UAE we have lost everything in last few years.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    They have lost interest in tests, so yes could be. I see Junaids posting in 2029 as well making some random scenarios of selection from domestics to make a case as to how PCT can perform in Aus in tests.
    3 years back they got to No 1 ranking so I hope we can revive test cricket and atleast be a mid table team

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    3 years back they got to No 1 ranking so I hope we can revive test cricket and atleast be a mid table team
    Yes with cricketers from an era that loved Test Cricket YK and Misbah, how is PCB going to make bowlers like Amir stick to test cricket?
    Aus and Eng take test cricket seriously, and get paid as well.
    BCCI compensated Shami for missing IPL.

    Test cricket is very different, so many spells,discipline , look at Archer he assumed it would be easy.
    Not saying cricket would decline but test cricket defn coz T20 and PSL.


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
    -Virat Kohli

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forward Defensive Push View Post
    On the contrary, I think Misbah will revive Pakistan in test format, especially at home. He knows how to win in subcontinent and Pakistan team's success and rise to #1 was during the tenure of Misbah. He was also responsible in setting up the UAE fortress and was an amazing captain of spinners.
    By looking at your name I can tell why you would like Misbah. Let me tell you no one whose named a attacking shot would agree with your line of thinking. We are in a losing streak. Since Misbah has taken over we have lost badly against teams. So this notion that this man will automatically win us at home is a nice fairy tale.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    Yes with cricketers from an era that loved Test Cricket YK and Misbah, how is PCB going to make bowlers like Amir stick to test cricket?
    Aus and Eng take test cricket seriously, and get paid as well.
    BCCI compensated Shami for missing IPL.

    Test cricket is very different, so many spells,discipline , look at Archer he assumed it would be easy.
    Not saying cricket would decline but test cricket defn coz T20 and PSL.
    Amir was nothing special in test cricket. TBH part of him knew he was going nowhere in tests and he had lost like 10 kph in pace. It was a matter of time before he would have lost his place.

    You are assuming that Guys like babar, Naseem and shaheen wonít love test cricket. Maybe they wonít but for now itís an assumption.

    Even Asad and Azhar loved test cricket and had a decent career.

    Itís just that Pakistan have forgotten how to win tests even at home and players are either over the hill or are very young into their test careers. You maybe right but as a test cricket fan I hope we can instill love for test cricket in this new generation and I Believe things will get better. They wonít become a top table team but they hopefully will start to win few games

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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    Amir was nothing special in test cricket. TBH part of him knew he was going nowhere in tests and he had lost like 10 kph in pace. It was a matter of time before he would have lost his place.

    You are assuming that Guys like babar, Naseem and shaheen won’t love test cricket. Maybe they won’t but for now it’s an assumption.

    Even Asad and Azhar loved test cricket and had a decent career.

    It’s just that Pakistan have forgotten how to win tests even at home and players are either over the hill or are very young into their test careers. You maybe right but as a test cricket fan I hope we can instill love for test cricket in this new generation and I Believe things will get better. They won’t become a top table team but they hopefully will start to win few games
    Yeah hope so, test cricket is much better as I'm ageing and PCT has always made it interesting.


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
    -Virat Kohli

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    Yeah hope so, test cricket is much better as I'm ageing and PCT has always made it interesting.
    Sadly the current lot are boring besides Babar.

  31. #31
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    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  32. #32
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    People need to stop bringing up the retirement of Misbah as an equal thing to the retirement of YK.

    They are not equal. One is an ATG Pak batsman, one is a decent one.

    Stop equating the two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emranabbas View Post
    You go on about Mickey in every thread

    The reason for our decline is not Mickey it's the retirement of misbah and Younis

    Proper to that we had Saeed ajmal who gave us an advantage in UAE

    So could you care to explain how is it Mickey's fault that Saeed ajmal got dropped for chucking and misbah and Younis retired?

    Another question I have is why didn't misbah groom anyone he well knew he and Younis will be retiring
    Look bro, don't judge based on a light hearted one liner, you are clearly better than that.

    I am not saying Misbah is without faults, my point is since Mickey and Sarf got more than two years to build and complete the transition phase why not same amount of time and leeways be given to Misbah? So Mickey is untouchable even after a disastrous tenure in test cricket but why people are so quick to judge Misbah based on a tour that had defeat written all over it even before Misbah took charge? You are blaming Misbah for not grooming proper replacements but cool with Mickey who actually got ample time and authority to do the same but couldn't!!

    Trolling and banters aside, it actually pained me for purely cricketing reason to see a once formidable side
    getting humiliated at home partly due to ridiculous selections and decision making. At least let Misbah go through the home season before jumping guns? Now I do not support your team nor ever will but as a neutral observer I can't help but exposing hypocrisy when I see it. Thing is even if Misbah brings Pak to a respectable position again some people will just keep on hating him still and that ain't right.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Spot on. Mickey and Sarfraz were absolutely clueless in Tests. ODIs too post the CT fluke.

    Who in their right mind wouldn't play proper spinners on the home grounds? Lack of any cricketing sense and tactics.
    @emranabbas would go to any lengths to defend Mickey Arthur. He ignores how clueless Mickey was in Test cricket, didn't play the right players nor with the right strategy. Losses at home are inexcusable.
    There is a Bengali proverb that can be roughly translated to "If you really don't like someone, you will keep on inventing new reasons to hate him". Sad to see a guy as honest and dedicated as Misbah is hated this much here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    There is a Bengali proverb that can be roughly translated to "If you really don't like someone, you will keep on inventing new reasons to hate him". Sad to see a guy as honest and dedicated as Misbah is hated this much here.
    I don't hate him but have absolutely no liking for him ,he has a seniority issue and seems to be biased as well, have not really seen anyone develop under him as such when he was the captain, doesn't take pressure well etc etc.

    PCT might had been losing but they were defn not boring and timid that they become under Misbah in all formats, now I understand that major problem with PCT is talent and development which isn't there but man Misbah makes PCT look so boring that it almost seems he is doing politics.


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
    -Virat Kohli

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    I don't hate him but have absolutely no liking for him ,he has a seniority issue and seems to be biased as well, have not really seen anyone develop under him as such when he was the captain, doesn't take pressure well etc etc.

    PCT might had been losing but they were defn not boring and timid that they become under Misbah in all formats, now I understand that major problem with PCT is talent and development which isn't there but man Misbah makes PCT look so boring that it almost seems he is doing politics.
    I was not talking about you. We have no stake, emotional or otherwise, in their team or it's future, so our views on that topic by and large don't matter. I was just casually pointing out the hypocrisy of the Pakistani fans who loves to hate Misbah.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    I don't hate him but have absolutely no liking for him ,he has a seniority issue and seems to be biased as well, have not really seen anyone develop under him as such when he was the captain, doesn't take pressure well etc etc.

    PCT might had been losing but they were defn not boring and timid that they become under Misbah in all formats, now I understand that major problem with PCT is talent and development which isn't there but man Misbah makes PCT look so boring that it almost seems he is doing politics.
    I mean, you are Indian so that's probably why you have no liking for him. Because we actually won tests under him? You just been super happy to see us lose to NZ and SL at home in embarrassing ways.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    5 wins, 1 draw and 17 losses in 23 matches in the last 3 years against top 8 test teams. In this period , there have been 2 runs of 6 consecutive losses(2016-17 and the current run) and I don't think any Pakistani test team has been as low as 80 points in the rankings. Discuss!
    Ravi Shastri is a specialist....in failure.

  39. #39
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    no. pakistan is still a quality side in home conditions and also in places where swing is possible like England and maybe n.z

    Pakistan's weakness has always been bounce so they have perennially struggled in australia and s.africa. it's a match up issue.

    watch pakistan beat England in England again.

    next series is at home. don't forget. Entirely different matchup.
    However s.lanka has a full strength squad now. Will be tough. I reckon 1-0 pak or 1-1.

  40. #40
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    These things go in cycles. When i first started watching cricket England and India were very weak, England in particular looked like a total no-hoper side, while teams like Windies had some very good and exciting players.

    So just give it another 20-30 years and i am very confident it will be a totally different story. That's why i think Indians need to lap up the Kohli era as much as they can and try not to bottle too many more ICC trophies going forward.


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    Well with Misbah in charge expect three more years of losses. So I expect us to be associates level in the next 3 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    Look bro, don't judge based on a light hearted one liner, you are clearly better than that.

    I am not saying Misbah is without faults, my point is since Mickey and Sarf got more than two years to build and complete the transition phase why not same amount of time and leeways be given to Misbah? So Mickey is untouchable even after a disastrous tenure in test cricket but why people are so quick to judge Misbah based on a tour that had defeat written all over it even before Misbah took charge? You are blaming Misbah for not grooming proper replacements but cool with Mickey who actually got ample time and authority to do the same but couldn't!!

    Trolling and banters aside, it actually pained me for purely cricketing reason to see a once formidable side
    getting humiliated at home partly due to ridiculous selections and decision making. At least let Misbah go through the home season before jumping guns? Now I do not support your team nor ever will but as a neutral observer I can't help but exposing hypocrisy when I see it. Thing is even if Misbah brings Pak to a respectable position again some people will just keep on hating him still and that ain't right.
    The point you and other misbah cheerleaders are not getting is if you gave the same team to Mickey as the one misbah had prior to misbah retiring Mickey would have won you those same matches aswell
    It's not difficult to understand we had a better pool of players when misbah was winning you those games at home. Now we don't have that same pool anymore so it's nothing to do with Mickey or any other coach

    If you follow Mickey's tenure he has groomed players but you don't get results overnight, under Mickey things were looking to get better but since misbah has taken over he has dropped all those players and took a team of kids and grandpa's to Australia hope you now understand why everyone is angry and are not bias unlike you and the rest of the other cheerleaders

    It's upto you who you support but before writing and essay I suggest you do some research and understand the subject being discussed also just for your information since your banging on about home series
    Under Mickey we played 4 series I think we beat west indies and Australia lost to New Zealand and Sri Lanka
    Yes Mickey made tactical errors it's still a very small sample size to judge him based upon.
    Last edited by sweep_shot; 5th December 2019 at 07:55.

  42. #42
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    Test cricket itself is on a decline. I am sorry but no one wants to see 5 days of extremely boring cricket unless Australia are playing as they have amazing players like Warner.

  43. #43
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    No nation is on a irreversible decline.

    Things are bad, but we can only improve.

    Now that we face SL at home, we should look to establish ourselves as a strong team in home conditions at the very least.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by emranabbas View Post
    The point you and other misbah cheerleaders are not getting is if you gave the same team to Mickey as the one misbah had prior to misbah retiring Mickey would have won you those same matches aswell
    Dude, don't use words like that while addressing me unless you want the same thrown at ya. I don't give two hoots about Misbah or Mickey, was just pointing out my findings as a neutral observer and a member of this board is all. I was at my polite best replying to you and if you can't maintain a civil tone then don't engage.
    Last edited by Hyperion66; 5th December 2019 at 05:40.

  45. #45
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    Jan 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by minamino View Post
    Test cricket itself is on a decline. I am sorry but no one wants to see 5 days of extremely boring cricket unless Australia are playing as they have amazing players like Warner.
    Australia and India are currently the only 2 sides worth watching in tests.

  46. #46
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    Jun 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    I am not saying Misbah is without faults, my point is since Mickey and Sarf got more than two years to build and complete the transition phase why not same amount of time and leeways be given to Misbah?
    Its because Misbah had no prior experience to coaching before he got the position of head coach. He was not only given a head coach role but a chief selector and a batting coach role. Its not hard to see any man whose doing three positions is gonna fail to garner results even if you were to give him the same amount of years as Mickey. Who was given one role of a head coach. So you got a unexperienced guy doing three important jobs in cricket. Team is losing badly. Do you expect the fans to keep quiet and give him time? Especially when we know this same man was picked due to dishonesty.

  47. #47
    Debut
    Aug 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    5 wins, 1 draw and 17 losses in 23 matches in the last 3 years against top 8 test teams. In this period , there have been 2 runs of 6 consecutive losses(2016-17 and the current run) and I don't think any Pakistani test team has been as low as 80 points in the rankings. Discuss!
    Pakistan normally hangs around 100 points. Under Misbah and IK, Pakistan shot around 110 points for some time. With 80 points, they have undershot and I think they will get back to 95-100 points if they don't insist on playing only one spinner in UAE/Pakistan.
    Last edited by Buffet; 5th December 2019 at 09:02.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  48. #48
    Debut
    Nov 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    By looking at your name I can tell why you would like Misbah. Let me tell you no one whose named a attacking shot would agree with your line of thinking. We are in a losing streak. Since Misbah has taken over we have lost badly against teams. So this notion that this man will automatically win us at home is a nice fairy tale.
    For test match cricket, defense is very important. Misbah's best format was test matches. Not ODIs or T20s. I'm sure Pakistan's fortunes would be revived in test matches going forward! At least let's hope for the best. If Pakistan loses to Sri Lanka and Bangladesh also, then there's no option but to sack him.

  49. #49
    Debut
    Mar 2016
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    Sheffield
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    We will be a rubbish test team for a while.


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