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  1. #1
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    What is the reason for the resurgence of young fast bowlers from Pakistan?

    Hasnain , Akif, Shaheen, Naseem, Musa, Hasnain, Muhammad Amir khan, all these under 23 bowlers have emerged in the last 3 years after a drought of consistent 140+ plus young fast bowlers for almost a decade
    Even Haris Rauf who started cricket late now at 26 is over 140

    That means after almost a decade when we were thirsty for 1 fast bowler who could be consistent 140 pakistan has almost 10 at the same time

    What is the reason . Certainly not the pitches which or ball both of which helped medium swingers more than fast bowling or is it just timing and coincidence

  2. #2
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    Fixation on fixer was replaced by giving chance to young bowlers.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  3. #3
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    Thank God the days of likes of Anwar Ali, Bilawal Bati, Sohail Khan opening the bowling is over.

  4. #4
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    Its a natural talent cycle along with obviously different trials and development programs.

    No team in the world can consistantly produce same kind of talent, there will be times of supreme talents and others with much less talent. Yes a good system can definitely give more times of good talent at hand because of less drainage the system.

  5. #5
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    They bothered to start looking.

    There’s 140 k pacers in every corner of Pakistan, and the likes of Rauf are evident of that.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellipsism View Post
    They bothered to start looking.

    There’s 140 k pacers in every corner of Pakistan, and the likes of Rauf are evident of that.
    Thatís true take Dilbar for example from no where to big bash. Even though he got smashed but still 140+ without any professional cricket is impressive

  7. #7
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    you speak of resurgence, i see that you didnot watch our fast bowlers in australia...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by HasanA View Post
    Hasnain , Akif, Shaheen, Naseem, Musa, Hasnain, Muhammad Amir khan, all these under 23 bowlers have emerged in the last 3 years after a drought of consistent 140+ plus young fast bowlers for almost a decade
    Even Haris Rauf who started cricket late now at 26 is over 140

    That means after almost a decade when we were thirsty for 1 fast bowler who could be consistent 140 pakistan has almost 10 at the same time

    What is the reason . Certainly not the pitches which or ball both of which helped medium swingers more than fast bowling or is it just timing and coincidence
    Hasnain, Shaheen, Naseem, Musa and Akif have one thing common. All are products of U16 level.

    Credit goes to Basit Ali who headed Junior selection committee.

    Basit ali was also part of selection committee that selected opener Shahzeb Hasan and the 2009 T20 Pak team that went onto win first T20.

    Basit Ali is a tough cookie but very sincere in his job.

    Then credit goes to PSL teams of Quetta, Lahore and Islamabad who took players from the U16 level in their emerging category.

    Qalandars also arranged player development camps and sent them to play clubs in Australia. From there Dilber and Harris were discovered.

  9. #9
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    There is a difference between fast bowling and good bowling.

    We can talk about resurgence if the likes of Naseem, Rauf, Hasnain, Musa etc. are among the leading bowlers in the world in 4-5 years time.

    Letís not forget how we would rave about the so-called resurgence of Pakistan cricket back in 2017-2018 because of Sarfrazís captaincy, and the emergence of players like Fakhar, Hasan, Shadab, Faheem etc.

    We all know what happened to that resurgence, and if our history is anything to go by, we will be lucky if even one of these young bowlers sustain their place in the team in a few years time.

    So far, only Shaheen has looked like a bowler who has the skills to have a decade long career for Pakistan.

  10. #10
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    The talent is there its the application and nurturing element which is missing. See what happend to Hasan Ali , Shahdab, Faheem and Fakhar

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    There is a difference between fast bowling and good bowling.

    We can talk about resurgence if the likes of Naseem, Rauf, Hasnain, Musa etc. are among the leading bowlers in the world in 4-5 years time.

    Letís not forget how we would rave about the so-called resurgence of Pakistan cricket back in 2017-2018 because of Sarfrazís captaincy, and the emergence of players like Fakhar, Hasan, Shadab, Faheem etc.

    We all know what happened to that resurgence, and if our history is anything to go by, we will be lucky if even one of these young bowlers sustain their place in the team in a few years time.

    So far, only Shaheen has looked like a bowler who has the skills to have a decade long career for Pakistan.
    you don't rate Rauf at all? The guy looked world class in the BPL and he can bowl reverse swing with that action so easily which means finally we have someone who is capable of bowling at death overs. Also Naseem has all the ingredients to be a successful bowler in next 10 years.He has good control and is fast. Musa is too raw and Hasnain also needs to play more fc cricket.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammad Saad View Post
    The talent is there its the application and nurturing element which is missing. See what happend to Hasan Ali , Shahdab, Faheem and Fakhar
    Shadab and Faheem were never good. Fakher and Hasan had a purple patch or may be they just didn't took cricket professionally and improved their game.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    you don't rate Rauf at all? The guy looked world class in the BPL and he can bowl reverse swing with that action so easily which means finally we have someone who is capable of bowling at death overs. Also Naseem has all the ingredients to be a successful bowler in next 10 years.He has good control and is fast. Musa is too raw and Hasnain also needs to play more fc cricket.
    Rauf can very easily turn out to be Wahab Riaz 2.0.

    He has zero first-class experience and I generally find him unlikable. He seems arrogant and someone who overrated himself.

    There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance, and I think he blurs the line.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    you don't rate Rauf at all? The guy looked world class in the BPL and he can bowl reverse swing with that action so easily which means finally we have someone who is capable of bowling at death overs. Also Naseem has all the ingredients to be a successful bowler in next 10 years.He has good control and is fast. Musa is too raw and Hasnain also needs to play more fc cricket.
    Naseem looks talented, but it doesnít guarantee that he will succeed in the long-term. Letís not forget that a major reason for his hype is his fake age.

    If PCB didnít market him as a bowling version of Tendulkar who is Test class at the age of 16, no one would be hyping him so much.

    In truth, he is roughly the same age as Shaheen who is streets ahead in terms of development.

  15. #15
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    Waqar & Misbah happened.

    They're not afraid to experiment and pick new players. Plus, the fast bowlers being mentored by Waqar have shown some excellent results till now.

    Massive improvements in Naseem and Hasnain.

    Shaheen already was doing good, now even better.

    Amir dropped so they can give a chance to Rauf. Even after the backlash for dropping Amir.

    The most exciting thing about this team is now our fast bowling. Will be one heck of a sight at World T20.

  16. #16
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    Quality is needed not quantity.

  17. #17
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    It could be a natural talent cycle as Titan24 mentioned. I also feel that PSL - and the excitement it created amongst Pakistani's - has a lot do to with this crop of bowling talent.

    Selectors are also fortunately starting to give the younger bowlers more of a go and deferring from experienced bowlers.
    The same can't be said for batsmen

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The reason I am barking is because we have been through this a dozen times. Every two years or so, there is a so-called resurgence of some element of Pakistan cricket but it turns out to be a false dawn.

    If people want to set themselves up for disappointment it is there choice. I will continue to bark for as long as I have the energy or the desire. It is up to other people what they make of my woof woof.
    There is a time to bark and a time to encourage. You bark non stop. Please send me a post where you have been positive. I suspect that when Pakistan won their last trophy (CL), you were probably criticising the victory speech or the white jackets.

    As I said, you are generally ignored and ridiculed which is a shame because you clearly have a lot to offer.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Waqar & Misbah happened.

    They're not afraid to experiment and pick new players. Plus, the fast bowlers being mentored by Waqar have shown some excellent results till now.

    Massive improvements in Naseem and Hasnain.

    Shaheen already was doing good, now even better.

    Amir dropped so they can give a chance to Rauf. Even after the backlash for dropping Amir.

    The most exciting thing about this team is now our fast bowling. Will be one heck of a sight at World T20.
    Shaheen was our best bowler in the WC and that was before Misbah and Waqar were appointed.

    Stop lying.

  20. #20
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    No need to hype them up to the moon right now. Pakistan should look to make sure that Naseem, Shaheen, Haris and Hasnain realize their potential. All four have the potential to be lethal in world cricket, with Shaheen obviously head and shoulders above the other three.

    Hasnain should be developed into a tearaway quick. Give him the license to go all guns blazing, and encourage him to bowl as fast as he can.

    Naseem could be someone who can nip the ball around at high speed. Possibly the most exciting out of all the prospects we have thus far.

    Haris could be a LOI specialist, but no reason he doesn't develop into an all-format pace bowler with that wonderful shape he gets away from the right handers.

    These four couldn't have found a better coach than Waqar Younis. Consider it a fluke or stars aligning, but if this ends up in a disaster, there's really not much that can be done in our broken system.

    Exciting times ahead, and I hope these guys live up to their potential. Finally, we don't have to endure 78-82 MPH trundlers opening the bowling for Pakistan
    Last edited by Usman Chadda; 26th January 2020 at 19:00.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    No need to hype them up to the moon right now. Pakistan should look to make sure that Naseem, Shaheen, Haris and Hasnain realize their potential. All four have the potential to be lethal in world cricket, with Shaheen obviously head and shoulders above the other three.

    Hasnain should be developed into a tearaway quick. Give him the license to go all guns blazing, and encourage him to bowl as fast as he can.

    Naseem could be someone who can nip the ball around at high speed. Possibly the most exciting out of all the prospects we have thus far.

    Haris could be a LOI specialist, but no reason he doesn't develop into an all-format pace bowler with that wonderful shape he gets away from the right handers.

    These four couldn't have found a better coach than Waqar Younis. Consider it a fluke or stars aligning, but if this ends up in a disaster, there's really not much that can be done in our broken system.

    Exciting times ahead, and I hope these guys live up to their potential. Finally, we don't have to endure 78-82 MPH trundlers opening the bowling for Pakistan
    The tour against SA in SA was hard to watch.

  22. #22
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    The raw materials are there, let's hope they have the passion to work hard and take wickets.

  23. #23
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    Itís only Shaheen that we really know anything about, given his time in the national setup. He looks to have all ingredients to be a skilled, tall, fast medium bowler ala Morkel.

    The other three - Naseem, Rauf, Hasnain, are still to figure out - key is for them to keep developing with hard work and of course support from this new look PCB.

    Hasnain looks much better than the bowler who was taken to the World Cup, even if it is still very straight bowling - his height and action give him advantages. A 90mph yorker is still just that - England even manage to utilise Mark Wood, Hasnain can be higher pedigree than that surely.

    Rauf is skilful, his variations at high speeds are very good, brings a lot of dismissal into play - how heís managed to do this outside of solid setups is quite a feat.

    Naseem is 19/20 yrs of age and a very bright bowler, which showed in the SL series. Low key opposition maybe but he managed to get it to move both ways - pinning them on the knee roll.

    Whatever we think long term - itís an exciting quartet - with Abbas/Amir making it a good crop of 6 to take forward.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    No need to hype them up to the moon right now. Pakistan should look to make sure that Naseem, Shaheen, Haris and Hasnain realize their potential. All four have the potential to be lethal in world cricket, with Shaheen obviously head and shoulders above the other three.

    Hasnain should be developed into a tearaway quick. Give him the license to go all guns blazing, and encourage him to bowl as fast as he can.

    Naseem could be someone who can nip the ball around at high speed. Possibly the most exciting out of all the prospects we have thus far.

    Haris could be a LOI specialist, but no reason he doesn't develop into an all-format pace bowler with that wonderful shape he gets away from the right handers.

    These four couldn't have found a better coach than Waqar Younis. Consider it a fluke or stars aligning, but if this ends up in a disaster, there's really not much that can be done in our broken system.

    Exciting times ahead, and I hope these guys live up to their potential. Finally, we don't have to endure 78-82 MPH trundlers opening the bowling for Pakistan
    Excellent post, as we see presently quick bowlers are like gold dust in modern day cricket

  25. #25
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    We're giving chances to specialists rather than pseudo all rounders like Faheem Ashraf, Hasan Ali

  26. #26
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    Naseem and Afrdi will certainly be torch bearer for Pakistan this decade.

    Not sure of Rauf and Hasnain as yet. Rauf is picked straight from league performance. Such players do not last long ( like Hasan Ali or Faheem Ashraf).

    Overall the situtaion is much better at start of new decade for Pakistan pace bowling. There is hope.

  27. #27
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    The interesting thing about a few of them is that they were born in areas that have not historically been tapped by Pakistan cricket. Hasnain was born in Hyderabad, Shaheen in Landi Kotal and Naseem in Lower Dir. This perhaps reflects a further wave of democratisation of the game in Pakistan.

  28. #28
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    Because Pakistan has always had natural, raw talent. It's as simple as that. But if we continue to lack the kind of structure needed to turn these players into elite world-class bowlers then what's the point of it all?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by KB View Post
    The interesting thing about a few of them is that they were born in areas that have not historically been tapped by Pakistan cricket. Hasnain was born in Hyderabad, Shaheen in Landi Kotal and Naseem in Lower Dir. This perhaps reflects a further wave of democratisation of the game in Pakistan.
    Don't forget Musa who hails from Chitral.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KB View Post
    The interesting thing about a few of them is that they were born in areas that have not historically been tapped by Pakistan cricket. Hasnain was born in Hyderabad, Shaheen in Landi Kotal and Naseem in Lower Dir. This perhaps reflects a further wave of democratisation of the game in Pakistan.
    That is a very positive sign.

    Less nepotism

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    Don't forget Musa who hails from Chitral.
    Akif from Kohat, Amir Khan from Swat.



  32. #32
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    It is good to remember that after speed gun machismo is put aside the best fast bowler in last 4-5 yrs for Pak has been Abbas.

    Let us hope youngsters look at topping wkt charts rather than speed contests

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    They are exciting young talents sure, but how can this be considered resurgence when they haven't achieved anything for their country yet? Have your standards seriously gone this far down? Thread like this should pop up when you have a proven and tested bowling attack, some of them haven't even debuted yet for crying out loud.
    Last edited by Hyperion66; 27th January 2020 at 00:22.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    There is a difference between fast bowling and good bowling.

    We can talk about resurgence if the likes of Naseem, Rauf, Hasnain, Musa etc. are among the leading bowlers in the world in 4-5 years time.

    Letís not forget how we would rave about the so-called resurgence of Pakistan cricket back in 2017-2018 because of Sarfrazís captaincy, and the emergence of players like Fakhar, Hasan, Shadab, Faheem etc.

    We all know what happened to that resurgence, and if our history is anything to go by, we will be lucky if even one of these young bowlers sustain their place in the team in a few years time.

    So far, only Shaheen has looked like a bowler who has the skills to have a decade long career for Pakistan.
    Mamoon I get your point but there is certainly a resurgence of genuinely quick bowlers in Pakistan. Obviously they have raw ingredients, whether they become world class or not is another matter

    To give some perspective letís dive into a bit of history

    I have been watching pakistan cricket since early 90s. I donít remember Pakistan having a line of 4-5 teenagers bowling such speeds after atleast in last 20 years.

    There was Akhtar in late 90s, then Sami who were express quicks but there was not much other than them pacewise

    Then from 2000-10 only Amir and Wahab emerged as 140+ bowlers. Wahab was garbage but express and Amir gets banned in 2010. The cupboard was completely bare. Junaid had some early success but pace was 135-140 even when he was at his best.

    Amir came back as a trundler. Hasan Ali another good 138-142 bowler emerges but nothing much pace wise from 2010-2018 when shaheen emerges

    2019/2020 Naseem shah, Hasnain, Rauf, Akif, Amir khan even Musa 140+ consistent and some can hit up to 152-153


    Yes you can doubt there talent and skill but pace wise a certain resurgence

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    They are exciting young talents sure, but how can this be considered resurgence when they haven't achieved anything for their country yet? Have your standards seriously gone this far down? Thread like this should pop up when you have a proven and tested bowling attack, some of them haven't even debuted yet for crying out loud.
    Identifying 8 140-145+ fast bowlers off the streets in the span of just two years IS the achievement and I believe the intention of the original post. It is to gratify a system long known for nepotism for now finally opening its doors through better scouting and talent identification. 2 of these new finds are now even touching the 150s. The others are getting good movement in the air, and some off the ground. Thatís a crazy amount of talent that has been identified, whether or not even one of them ends up becoming a solid bowler. Chances are that at least one, if not more than one, of them will be. But thatís not the point. Even if all of them turn out to be utter failures, the democratization->identification->selection system is getting better, because Pakistan has always had the talent to be world beaters but have consistently been let down by incompetent management.

    What these kids need right now is good coaching and temperament which are the last and most important stages of the process, and Iím hoping Waqar can leave a legacy with them.
    Last edited by The Viper; 27th January 2020 at 01:12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Identifying 8 140-145+ fast bowlers off the streets in the span of just two years IS the achievement and I believe the intention of the original post. It is to gratify a system long known for nepotism for now finally opening its doors through better scouting and talent identification. 2 of these new finds are now even touching the 150s. The others are getting good movement in the air, and some off the ground. Thatís a crazy amount of talent that has been identified, whether or not even one of them ends up becoming a solid bowler. Chances are that at least one, if not more than one, of them will be. But thatís not the point. Even if all of them turn out to be utter failures, the democratization->identification->selection system is getting better, because Pakistan has always had the talent to be world beaters but have consistently been let down by incompetent management.

    What these kids need right now is good coaching and temperament which are the last and most important stages of the process, and Iím hoping Waqar can leave a legacy with them.
    Nice read but I will have to disagree. What you explained is building a talent pool but the thread title talks about resurgence which hasn't happen yet.

    Of course you should celebrate your young talents but I just couldn't help but point out my issue with that word. I hope you don't mind. I honestly think this thread is gonna be one of the most bumpable threads in the future, for positive or negative only time will tell.
    Last edited by The Viper; 27th January 2020 at 01:13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    Nice read but I will have to disagree. What you explained is building a talent pool but the thread title talks about resurgence which hasn't happen yet.

    Of course you should celebrate your young talents but I just couldn't help but point out my issue with that word. I hope you don't mind. I honestly think this thread is gonna be one of the most bumpable threads in the future, for positive or negative only time will tell.
    Donít make it complicated. Resurgence here means a big group of 140+ quicks is now available and that has happened after 15-20 years for Pakistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    Don’t make it complicated. Resurgence here means a big group of 140+ quicks is now available and that has happened after 15-20 years for Pakistan.
    Cool then, happy resurgence to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    Cool then, happy resurgence to you.
    Thanks

    Resurgence: an increase or revival after a period of little activity, popularity or occurrence


    Little activity: literally no 140+ bowler in last 10 years bar wahab. No consistent 140+ bowler from 2005 after Sami turned out garbage and Shoaib played very little

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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    Little activity: literally no 140+ bowler in last 10 years bar wahab. No consistent 140+ bowler from 2005 after Sami turned out garbage and Shoaib played very little
    Wasn't that because of a fixation with Amir?


    And I don't know if we can call any of them a consistent 140+ bowler. Need to see that happen in a few test series first instead of a 4-over spell at max.
    Last edited by The Viper; 27th January 2020 at 01:55.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Nombre View Post
    Wasn't that because of a fixation with Amir?


    And I don't know if we can call any of them a consistent 140+ bowler. Need to see that happen in a few test series first instead of a 4-over spell at max.
    They are all 140+ bowlers and all teenagers bar rauf who is also young enough

    No cupboard was bare Amir wasnít there for 5 years no one emerged
    Last edited by The Viper; 27th January 2020 at 01:56.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by HasanA View Post
    Hasnain , Akif, Shaheen, Naseem, Musa, Hasnain, Muhammad Amir khan, all these under 23 bowlers have emerged in the last 3 years after a drought of consistent 140+ plus young fast bowlers for almost a decade
    Even Haris Rauf who started cricket late now at 26 is over 140

    That means after almost a decade when we were thirsty for 1 fast bowler who could be consistent 140 pakistan has almost 10 at the same time

    What is the reason . Certainly not the pitches which or ball both of which helped medium swingers more than fast bowling or is it just timing and coincidence
    Misbah stopped captaining Pakistan

    Sarfraz took over and introduced the likes of Shaheen, Hasan, Hasnain etc.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    Thanks

    Resurgence: an increase or revival after a period of little activity, popularity or occurrence


    Little activity: literally no 140+ bowler in last 10 years bar wahab. No consistent 140+ bowler from 2005 after Sami turned out garbage and Shoaib played very little
    I understand, thanks again.

  44. #44
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    A lot of it is also pure luck. I doubt Pakistan had too many bowlers bowling at such speeds around 8 years ago . Now you have found a good crop of genuine quicks all at once . Australia went through something similar before they managed to get their current set of quicks . You can't find that kind of talent all the time I suppose.

  45. #45
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    Thereís no resurgence.

    Shaheen Shah Afridi is the only one tall enough to make it in international cricket - the rest are just nobodies.

    You can pick one of the short guys in each format, and Naseem Shah and Haris Rauf look better than the others.

    But Musa Khan was totally exposed in Australia. There are at least 10,000 Aussies aged 15-30 who are better fast bowlers than he is, possibly more.

    The continuing selection of Musa Khan proves EITHER that there is no resurgence in Pakistan OR that Misbah is subnormal in terms of his selection competence.

    Hasnain is borderline tall enough, and so why hasnt he been fast tracked into First Class Cricket?
    Last edited by Junaids; 27th January 2020 at 02:10.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Thereís no resurgence.

    Shaheen Shah Afridi is the only one tall enough to make it in international cricket - the rest are just nobodies.

    You can pick one of the short guys in each format, and Naseem Shah and Haris Rauf look better than the others.

    But Musa Khan was totally exposed in Australia. There are at least 10,000 Aussies aged 15-30 who are better fast bowlers than he is, possibly more.

    The continuing selection of Musa Khan proves EITHER that there is no resurgence in Pakistan OR that Misbah is subnormal in terms of his selection competence.
    But hasnain is 6'2" and has clocked 155. How is he not test class?

  47. #47
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    It really is a breath of fresh air and gives one hope for the future.

    Now only if a similar resurgence can be seen in the batting department beyond Babar.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    But hasnain is 6'2" and has clocked 155. How is he not test class?
    Thatís my point.

    Itís obvious that Hasnain has a higher Test ceiling than the others because of his height, and Iím baffled as to why they arenít grooming him in red ball cricket.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Thatís my point.

    Itís obvious that Hasnain has a higher Test ceiling than the others because of his height, and Iím baffled as to why they arenít grooming him in red ball cricket.
    Misbah said he not fit enough. Be said they are working on him and want him to play some first class cricket next season.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Thatís my point.

    Itís obvious that Hasnain has a higher Test ceiling than the others because of his height, and Iím baffled as to why they arenít grooming him in red ball cricket.
    He is a teenage tearaway with a fragile body. They need to be patient with him and I donít think heís a test prospect as of now. Others are much better than him

  51. #51
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    Encouraging signs but the Hassan Ali situation scares me, in that we lose these promising bowlers in the blink of an eye.

    Patience is the key. Rotating them too and ensuring they are not over-played and over-bowled.

    Waqar may not be the best technically, but he is a good mentor for these young men.



  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    Mamoon I get your point but there is certainly a resurgence of genuinely quick bowlers in Pakistan. Obviously they have raw ingredients, whether they become world class or not is another matter

    To give some perspective letís dive into a bit of history

    I have been watching pakistan cricket since early 90s. I donít remember Pakistan having a line of 4-5 teenagers bowling such speeds after atleast in last 20 years.

    There was Akhtar in late 90s, then Sami who were express quicks but there was not much other than them pacewise

    Then from 2000-10 only Amir and Wahab emerged as 140+ bowlers. Wahab was garbage but express and Amir gets banned in 2010. The cupboard was completely bare. Junaid had some early success but pace was 135-140 even when he was at his best.

    Amir came back as a trundler. Hasan Ali another good 138-142 bowler emerges but nothing much pace wise from 2010-2018 when shaheen emerges

    2019/2020 Naseem shah, Hasnain, Rauf, Akif, Amir khan even Musa 140+ consistent and some can hit up to 152-153


    Yes you can doubt there talent and skill but pace wise a certain resurgence
    In terms of pace yes, but I would wait before they achieve something. As I said, if they are among the leading bowlers in the world in 4-5 years time, we can be excited and call it a resurgence.

    However, every so-called resurgence or golden era of Pakistan cricket in the last few years has fallen flat on its face for some reason. That is why I have absolutely no hope that things will be different this time.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Shaheen was our best bowler in the WC and that was before Misbah and Waqar were appointed.

    Stop lying.
    And needless to say what Misbah's opinion was on Shaheen's inclusion in the WC squad

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    And needless to say what Misbah's opinion was on Shaheen's inclusion in the WC squad
    Well remembered. Misbah's lack of cricketing intelligence was there for everyone to see. If only the PCB had taken heed to this before appointing him but oh well you reap what you sow, as they say.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    But hasnain is 6'2" and has clocked 155. How is he not test class?
    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Waqar may not be the best technically, but he is a good mentor for these young men.
    Then he is qualified to be a mentor and not the bowling coach.

    The bowling coach is a technical position, not sheltered employment for a glorified mascot.

    Either Waqar is the best technical coach available or he is not.

    If heís not, itís Misconduct In Public Office to appoint him to a job that he lacks the training and skills to undertake.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Encouraging signs but the Hassan Ali situation scares me, in that we lose these promising bowlers in the blink of an eye.

    Patience is the key. Rotating them too and ensuring they are not over-played and over-bowled.

    Waqar may not be the best technically, but he is a good mentor for these young men.
    I'm hopeful that another Hassan Ali type situation doesn't arise again. When Hassan first broke through it was only him, Amir and a rotating wheel of lesser third dealers.

    Pakistan currently have SSA, Hasnain, Rauf, Naseem across various formats. Add to this Shinwari, a sure-to-return Amir, a reduced but still hopefully effective Hassan Ali and a InshAllah successfully debuting Ammad Butt. You have the selectors giving Musa Khan a chance, who despite @Junaids height fixation can still come good, as a young lad. You have Akif Javid, who is getting to train w/ the senior team. You have Amir Khan and the other tall leftie at U19 level. For the first time in nearly a decade, Pakistan has resources and competition for places. I'm hopeful that this management team will be intelligent about managing their bowlers workloads, given Alhamdulillah the variety of options available. To further the point, I think the non selection of Naseem for the T20 team is a good thing. Ideally they bring Amir back in the fold and keep SSA as a bench player for T20, whilst making him your main ODI and test spearhead. Similarly juggle the other bowlers intelligently. A great example to the PCB of this has been the ECBs handling of James Anderson's and Stuart Broads careers.

  57. #57
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    My rankings based on potential:
    1. Shaheen (shows the biggest hunger to learn and grow, and reflects on his improving swing, improving pace, and getting labuschagne and smith out in Aus even while being let down by other bowlers)
    2. Naseem (cleanest action, very smart and very aggressive with potential to nip the ball wherever he wants)
    3. Hasnain (already fast as hell but hasnít hit his peak yet, improving body mass and fitness could get him to Akhtar and Lee speeds. Also improving seam position might mean the ball moving at speeds of 150. Doesnít yet show the smarts of the other two, but heís showed the willingness to improve)
    4. Rauf (already at or near his peak in speed due to age so not much room for improvement there but seems to be developing a killer reverse swing. Older than the rest but can serve for another 5-7 years at the very least as a potential death bowler)

    I really really badly want all four of them to set a legacy (donít want to speak too soon and over hype them as a potential quartet), but would be happy if even two of them could (probably Shaheen and Naseem). The rest arenít international level yet i.e Musa Akif Amir Tahir but they are all 18-20 year olds and have plenty of time to improve

  58. #58
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    Don't forget Sameen Gul (Test) and Shinwari (ODIs) as well , both can be devastating as well in their preferred format.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Then he is qualified to be a mentor and not the bowling coach.

    The bowling coach is a technical position, not sheltered employment for a glorified mascot.

    Either Waqar is the best technical coach available or he is not.

    If heís not, itís Misconduct In Public Office to appoint him to a job that he lacks the training and skills to undertake.
    Well said, unfortunately there is no regard for adhering to meritocracy with Pakistanis. Doesn't matter where you find them.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Well said, unfortunately there is no regard for adhering to meritocracy with Pakistanis. Doesn't matter where you find them.
    As you know or should know as a former fast bowler at the higest level waqar will understand all the technical and mental issues fast bowling requires.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manunited18 View Post
    As you know or should know as a former fast bowler at the higest level waqar will understand all the technical and mental issues fast bowling requires.
    This is like saying being good at Maths by default makes you a good Maths teacher.

    Just like with student/teaching, playing and coaching are not identical skill sets. Being a good player requires you to be a good technician, whereas coaching is actually more analytical than technical.

    If you rate Waqar so much then why did he get turned down by Australia when they had a vacant Bowling Coach position?

    His incompetence can be epitomised by the selection of Musa Khan for the Australia tour. The same bowler who averaged well in excess of 60 in the recently concluded QeA tournament.
    Last edited by topspin; 27th January 2020 at 18:04.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    There’s no resurgence.

    Shaheen Shah Afridi is the only one tall enough to make it in international cricket - the rest are just nobodies.

    You can pick one of the short guys in each format, and Naseem Shah and Haris Rauf look better than the others.

    But Musa Khan was totally exposed in Australia. There are at least 10,000 Aussies aged 15-30 who are better fast bowlers than he is, possibly more.

    The continuing selection of Musa Khan proves EITHER that there is no resurgence in Pakistan OR that Misbah is subnormal in terms of his selection competence.

    Hasnain is borderline tall enough, and so why hasnt he been fast tracked into First Class Cricket?
    Shaheen, hasnain, naseem, rauf are bowlers of Hugh potential and what pakistan have had in recent times this definitely is a resurgence.
    You doubt their credibility because of height issue, well I've been watching cricket for along time and pakistan teams have hardly ever had 6ft5 6ft6 fast bowlers, hasnain and shaeen are on the taller scale of the bracket and rauf and naseem compliment them with being skiddy, sorry but your theory is flawed which ever you look at it, if height was a issue then surely the likes of wasim waqar would have had issues with it, it basically comes down to skill sets

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    This is like saying being good at Maths by default makes you a good Maths teacher.

    Just like with student/teaching, playing and coaching are not identical skill sets. Being a good player requires you to be a good technician, whereas coaching is actually more analytical than technical.

    If you rate Waqar so much then why did he get turned down by Australia when they had a vacant Bowling Coach position?

    His incompetence can be epitomised by the selection of Musa Khan for the Australia tour. The same bowler who is averaged well in excess of 60 in the recently concluded QeA tournament.
    A good coach needs patience and great communication skills to get the message through - itís not about overcoming the language barrier, rather the unique skill to get the message into the players. Different players need different ways to be taught/communicated and thatís the biggest quality of a coach - I think WY lacks in that big time. He has 10+ years of County experience, 15+ years as international... enough technical knowledge & experience to be a good coach, and he definitely was one of the most skilled fast bowlers ever; but his failure as coach has been for his personality traits, his lack of communication skills & may be lack of patience with his players.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    A good coach needs patience and great communication skills to get the message through - it’s not about overcoming the language barrier, rather the unique skill to get the message into the players. Different players need different ways to be taught/communicated and that’s the biggest quality of a coach - I think WY lacks in that big time. He has 10+ years of County experience, 15+ years as international... enough technical knowledge & experience to be a good coach, and he definitely was one of the most skilled fast bowlers ever; but his failure as coach has been for his personality traits, his lack of communication skills & may be lack of patience with his players.
    Agreed. You've hit the nail on the head with this one.

    Unfortunately for Pakistan cricket, Waqar has always lacked temperament. I still remember how he gave up during that 2003 WC contest Australia with those beamers he bowled at Symonds. Indeed, he never had the man management skills to work with players because of his dictatorial style.

  65. #65
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    Whether Pakistan has good upcoming fast bowlers or not will be known when it plays against a few strong teams. In the last match against Australia, a total of 3 wickets were taken in the whole 5 days.


    Hopefully some of these teenagers will become world leading bowlers like Pakistan always had earlier. As of now, none of these are proven but they are more than a match for the weakened SL and BD teams on home grounds. However, SL almost won the first test match and Pakistan batsmen somehow saved the second test. This will give these kids confidence for future matches against top batsmen.

    Pakistan is fast tracking teenagers as thereís a dearth of good experienced fast bowlers. This is a blessing in disguise for Pakistan as they can be moulded properly without getting influenced by duds of the last generation.
    Last edited by Babbar; 27th January 2020 at 18:27.

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    Let these kids actually win a few games against top teams before declaring a resurgence in our fast bowling.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babbar View Post
    Whether Pakistan has good upcoming fast bowlers or not will be known when it plays against a few strong teams. In the last match against Australia, a total of 3 wickets were taken in the whole 5 days.


    Hopefully some of these teenagers will become world leading bowlers like Pakistan always had earlier. As of now, none of these are proven but they are more than a match for the weakened SL and BD teams on home grounds. However, SL almost won the first test match and Pakistan batsmen somehow saved the second test. This will give these kids confidence for future matches against top batsmen.

    Pakistan is fast tracking teenagers as thereís a dearth of good experienced fast bowlers. This is a blessing in disguise for Pakistan as they can be moulded properly without getting influenced by duds of the last generation.
    What? Which series are you talking about?

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    What? Which series are you talking about?
    Apparently not the one in which Shaheen and Naseem got 5fers. Also seems like more than 2 and a half days were played in the first match of this series within which SL almost won, Abid and Babar definitely didnít get centuries in this SL winning match either to basically level scores

  69. #69
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    I'm hopeful that another Hassan Ali type situation doesn't arise again.
    It can and will happen as long as some of the incompetent medical staff are working for PCB.



  70. #70
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  71. #71
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    Sarfraz Nawaz not impressed!

    While Nawaz is full of praise for Kapil Dev and Malcolm Marshall for their effectiveness, he acknowledges the talent of two of his countrymen.

    “Wasim (Akram) was brilliant with the new ball and Waqar (Younis) was lethal with the old ball. His (Younis) in-swinging yorkers with the old ball were a treat for the eyes,” he said of the two Pakistani bowlers who are arguably the greatest exponents of reverse swing.

    Nawaz said that the current Pakistani bowling lineup doesn’t have a single player who gets to play all matches.

    “Naseem Shah and Mohammed Hasnain are quite effective but they are too young. Taking a look at their frail physiques and considerable heights, I don’t think they would be able to play longer for Pakistan. One has to be well-built for a longer career as a fast bowler. Shaheen Shah Afridi is a medium pacer and lacks sharpness,” he said.

    https://indianexpress.com/article/sp...virus-6419838/


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  72. #72
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    Wasim Akram speaking on a group video chat

    "If any young bowler wants to improve, they need to get into two or three-day cricket at 16, 17 years of age. Nowadays everyone wants to play T20 cricket but that is a very easy format.

    "Any youngster you see who is fast and has potential, stop putting into his mind that he can't get wickets on slow wickets. What happens is, that as a young guy, if you hear all around you that 'I am not going to get wickets', psychologically he will be negative on those wickets. He has to learn how to swing the ball and bowl fuller on slow wickets. I enjoyed bowling on slow wickets, especially in Tests, since you can swing the ball and contain the batsman," Wasim said.


    https://www.thedailystar.net/sports/...-wasim-1904542


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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    No need to hype them up to the moon right now. Pakistan should look to make sure that Naseem, Shaheen, Haris and Hasnain realize their potential. All four have the potential to be lethal in world cricket, with Shaheen obviously head and shoulders above the other three.

    Hasnain should be developed into a tearaway quick. Give him the license to go all guns blazing, and encourage him to bowl as fast as he can.

    Naseem could be someone who can nip the ball around at high speed. Possibly the most exciting out of all the prospects we have thus far.

    Haris could be a LOI specialist, but no reason he doesn't develop into an all-format pace bowler with that wonderful shape he gets away from the right handers.

    These four couldn't have found a better coach than Waqar Younis. Consider it a fluke or stars aligning, but if this ends up in a disaster, there's really not much that can be done in our broken system.

    Exciting times ahead, and I hope these guys live up to their potential. Finally, we don't have to endure 78-82 MPH trundlers opening the bowling for Pakistan
    Waqar was our head coach during the 2015 WC with ATG bowling lineup of Ehsan Adil, Rahat Ali, Sohail Khan and Wahab Riaz

    We all know how that went

    Waqar was a great bowler and nothing else. He added nothing as a captain or coach.

  74. #74
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    Pakistan has always produced great fast bowlers. There is a great fast bowling culture and that helps to find good pacers over and over.



  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    My rankings based on potential:
    1. Shaheen (shows the biggest hunger to learn and grow, and reflects on his improving swing, improving pace, and getting labuschagne and smith out in Aus even while being let down by other bowlers)
    2. Naseem (cleanest action, very smart and very aggressive with potential to nip the ball wherever he wants)
    3. Hasnain (already fast as hell but hasn’t hit his peak yet, improving body mass and fitness could get him to Akhtar and Lee speeds. Also improving seam position might mean the ball moving at speeds of 150. Doesn’t yet show the smarts of the other two, but he’s showed the willingness to improve)
    4. Rauf (already at or near his peak in speed due to age so not much room for improvement there but seems to be developing a killer reverse swing. Older than the rest but can serve for another 5-7 years at the very least as a potential death bowler)

    I really really badly want all four of them to set a legacy (don’t want to speak too soon and over hype them as a potential quartet), but would be happy if even two of them could (probably Shaheen and Naseem). The rest aren’t international level yet i.e Musa Akif Amir Tahir but they are all 18-20 year olds and have plenty of time to improve
    It's quite sad how often Usman Shinwari is overlooked. Guy has been bending his back on UAE dustbowls and nipping the bowl around but even on PP he's quite under rated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadi Rizvi View Post
    It's quite sad how often Usman Shinwari is overlooked. Guy has been bending his back on UAE dustbowls and nipping the bowl around but even on PP he's quite under rated.
    I dunno, I always think of him as a spray gun. Doesnít seem too smart either

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    I dunno, I always think of him as a spray gun. Doesn’t seem too smart either
    His domestic stats are superb. 91 FC wickets at avg 24. 77 List a wickets at avg of 21. Averages 18 in ODIs so far.

    Yes he got spanked many times in the PSL but so did Shaheen and honestly you can't judge a bowler based on T20s.

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    First class was too bowler friendly until this year though, i want to see how he does in first class moving forward

    He was definitely quite decent in the matches he played against Sri Lanka but doesnít seem to ooze talent and havenít seen any magical deliveries either. Iíll go back and rewatch though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadi Rizvi View Post
    His domestic stats are superb. 91 FC wickets at avg 24. 77 List a wickets at avg of 21. Averages 18 in ODIs so far.

    Yes he got spanked many times in the PSL but so did Shaheen and honestly you can't judge a bowler based on T20s.
    Shaheen got spanked what an earth you on about shaheen went at 7runs per over at average of 18

    Shinwari doesnt even come in the top 20 !

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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Shaheen got spanked what an earth you on about shaheen went at 7runs per over at average of 18

    Shinwari doesnt even come in the top 20 !
    Check his first 2 seasons with LQ. He was all over the place. I wasn't talking abt the latest season.


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