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  1. #1
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    Why do some Muslims not look at women while talking to them?

    I see a lot of Muslim cricketers especially not looking to women when they are being interviewed by women? Isn't it a bit rude for women to be talking to someone who's not even looking at them.

    I remember once I demonstrated this and the girl got angry at me for not looking at her while talking to her.

  2. #2
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    It's a gheerah thing

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    It's a gheerah thing
    So non-Muslims don't have ghairat?

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    We are supposed to lower our gazes. We shouldn't look unless we really have to. It is difficult but we should try our best.

    Nothing rude about it.


    Bangladeshi Fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by minamino View Post
    So non-Muslims don't have ghairat?
    Naah, religious muslim men don't look women in the eyes whether they're muslim or not - it's out of respect not arrogance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    Naah, religious muslim men don't look women in the eyes whether they're muslim or not - it's out of respect not arrogance.
    I think it's rather disrespectful for women that they are talking to someone who is not even looking at them.

  7. #7
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    Key is moderation and clean intention.

    If you look too much unnecessarily, you may end up with perverted thoughts.

    Play it cool and use common sense. Don't go overboard.


    Bangladeshi Fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Key is moderation and clean intention.

    If you look too much unnecessarily, you may end up with perverted thoughts.

    Play it cool and use common sense. Don't go overboard.
    So it's black and white for you. Nothing in between? Ogling is ugly but so is not even looking at someone who is talking to you, it's very rude.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by minamino View Post
    So it's black and white for you. Nothing in between? Ogling is ugly but so is not even looking at someone who is talking to you, it's very rude.
    I am being realistic here.

    If you look at an attractive lady long enough, you are very likely going to feel chemistry. That chemistry often results in perverted thoughts. One thing can lead to another and you can end up with a bad situation. Devil is always trying to lure us in.

    Key here is to not look too much. Just look enough to not appear rude.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    I am being realistic here.

    If you look at an attractive lady long enough, you are very likely going to feel chemistry. That chemistry often results in perverted thoughts. One thing can lead to another and you can end up with a bad situation. Devil is always trying to lure us in.

    Key here is to not look too much. Just look enough to not appear rude.
    This actually happens to you?.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    I am being realistic here.

    If you look at an attractive lady long enough, you are very likely going to feel chemistry. That chemistry often results in perverted thoughts. One thing can lead to another and you can end up with a bad situation. Devil is always trying to lure us in.

    Key here is to not look too much. Just look enough to not appear rude.
    What about unattractive ladies? Do you look at them while talking? Because perverted thoughts won't come if she is "unattractive" enough I supposed.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    This actually happens to you?.
    I am sure it happens with majority of the straight males. It is not unnatural.

    Problem with many women is, they wear revealing clothes and then they complain when males harass them. Women need to be responsible.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  13. #13
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    Interaction with woman is like hitting a juicy full-toss. You can hit it for a six but also can get caught at the boundary. You have to find the right balance and you have to be careful.


    Bangladeshi Fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    This actually happens to you?.
    That was just lust(and that's what he meant) and it happens to every man
    I am all for looking women in the eye especially in professional settings and it's wierd if you don't
    But what imo what's wrong is staring a woman down on the street or something where she doesn't even know you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    What about unattractive ladies? Do you look at them while talking? Because perverted thoughts won't come if she is "unattractive" enough I supposed.
    Well, unattractive ones of course will not generate the same chemistry as attractive ones. This is just brutal truth.


    Bangladeshi Fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    That was just lust(and that's what he meant) and it happens to every man
    I am all for looking women in the eye especially in professional settings and it's wierd if you don't
    But what imo what's wrong is staring a woman down on the street or something where she doesn't even know you
    It does not happen to every man, I never get perverted thoughts when talking to an attractive woman. And staring at anybody down the street regardless of gender or attractiveness is wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Well, unattractive ones of course will not generate the same chemistry as attractive ones. This is just brutal truth.
    Supposing that's the truth, do you look at them while talking? Because no way these girls will generate any kind of perverted thoughts on your mind.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Supposing that's the truth, do you look at them while talking? Because no way these girls will generate any kind of perverted thoughts on your mind.
    Well, I am quite introverted and I haven't interacted with many women outside of college/workplace. I respect women and I don't bother them unnecessarily (doesn't matter whether attractive or not).


    Bangladeshi Fan

  19. #19
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    Women are temptation and lead to men causing sin. All men, not just muslims, should avoid looking at them. But liberals would call it misogynist as they want a society where impure thoughts and actions are normalized.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Women are temptation and lead to men causing sin. All men, not just muslims, should avoid looking at them. But liberals would call it misogynist as they want a society where impure thoughts and actions are normalized.
    Its not misogynistic, its stupidity, looking at women does not lead men to sin. Someone is leading you up the garden path.

    It sounds like someone who lacks the ability to control their own thoughts has convinced you that it is normal for a man not to be able to control their own mind.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Its not misogynistic, its stupidity, looking at women does not lead men to sin. Someone is leading you up the garden path.

    It sounds like someone who lacks the ability to control their own thoughts has convinced you that it is normal for a man not to be able to control their own mind.
    There are so many cheating stories in our societies. All these cheating could've been prevented if males and females respected boundaries of each other.

    It starts with looking in the eye and often finishes with catastrophe.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    There are so many cheating stories in our societies. All these cheating could've been prevented if males and females respected boundaries of each other.

    It starts with looking in the eye and often finishes with catastrophe.
    Does woman have the ability to hypnotise in your opinion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    It does not happen to every man, I never get perverted thoughts when talking to an attractive woman. And staring at anybody down the street regardless of gender or attractiveness is wrong.
    So you are saying that talking to Kim K or Hally Barry or someone attractive you would have no feeling of lust and it would be the same as talking to your female boss or subordinate

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    There are so many cheating stories in our societies. All these cheating could've been prevented if males and females respected boundaries of each other.

    It starts with looking in the eye and often finishes with catastrophe.
    Has this actually happened to you or have you been informed to think this way?.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Does woman have the ability to hypnotise in your opinion?
    I would say yes. I think a lot of women love to be flashy and they love to lure men in. It is alright but it becomes a problem when they start to ruin male lives.

    I am very careful nowadays when it comes to dealing with women. I don't want to be an innocent victim of MeToo movement.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Has this actually happened to you or have you been informed to think this way?.
    Are you saying cheating is not widespread in our societies? I am sure you can do a research on this and let me know what you find.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    So you are saying that talking to Kim K or Hally Barry or someone attractive you would have no feeling of lust and it would be the same as talking to your female boss or subordinate
    I have sufficient self control of my own thoughts to be able to comfortably talk to a woman regardless of her looks. I can interact with respect and maintain self control and have no need for any woman to adjust their behavior to prevent me from losing self control. I control myself and I'm responsible for my actions regardless of what anyone else has done or continues to do.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Are you saying cheating is not widespread in our societies? I am sure you can do a research on this and let me know what you find.
    My question was have you cheated on someone or been cheated on, that way I can see if you are talking from experience or if you are talking from what someone has told you.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    My question was have you cheated on someone or been cheated on, that way I can see if you are talking from experience or if you are talking from what someone has told you.
    I never had a girlfriend and hence I could never cheat technically. But, I have read stories on the internet and I have also seen folks around me who were victims of cheating partners. It is not a good feeling and it really can be prevented.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    My question was have you cheated on someone or been cheated on, that way I can see if you are talking from experience or if you are talking from what someone has told you.
    Maybe ask Michael Clarke what it feels like to be betrayed by a cheating partner.
    Last edited by sweep_shot; 15th February 2020 at 10:00.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    I never had a girlfriend and hence I could never cheat technically. But, I have read stories on the internet and I have also seen folks around me who were victims of cheating partners. It is not a good feeling and it really can be prevented.
    Of course it can be prevented, I have been married for more than 35 years and never had a problem with fidelity. Not because I expected others to change their behavior to keep me from straying but because I adapted my behavior to build an unbreakable trust with my wife.

    My only caution for you is that real life experiences may clash with what you have been told on the internet or by friends.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Maybe ask Michael Clarke what it feels like to be betrayed by a cheating spouse.
    You dont need my permission to ask Clarke anything, you are free to do that all on your own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Well, unattractive ones of course will not generate the same chemistry as attractive ones. This is just brutal truth.
    Beauty is in the eye (no pun intended on the thread topic) of the beholder isnít it?

    So either you lower your gaze when talking to someone who looks like a supermodel or you donít when you are talking to the bearded lady or a woman who looks like yoda.

    Now if you are looking at a lady and your first thought is is she attractive enough for me to get perverted thoughts than you have serious issues. You shouldnít be having a conversation with her in the first place unless she is a doctor. You can obviously have your gaze anywhere then because she is only diagnosing you and not thinking of you are being disrespectful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Of course it can be prevented, I have been married for more than 35 years and never had a problem with fidelity. Not because I expected others to change their behavior to keep me from straying but because I adapted my behavior to build an unbreakable trust with my wife.

    My only caution for you is that real life experiences may clash with what you have been told on the internet or by friends.
    That's good. I salute you for having a successful marriage life for 35 years. Boomer generation generally have long marriage lives.

    I am actually concerned about Generation Z and Millennial generation. As a Millennial myself, I have seen many of my fellow Millennial cheating on each other. I just hope that Generation Z will take it easy.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local.Dada View Post
    Beauty is in the eye (no pun intended on the thread topic) of the beholder isnít it?

    So either you lower your gaze when talking to someone who looks like a supermodel or you donít when you are talking to the bearded lady or a woman who looks like yoda.

    Now if you are looking at a lady and your first thought is is she attractive enough for me to get perverted thoughts than you have serious issues. You shouldnít be having a conversation with her in the first place unless she is a doctor. You can obviously have your gaze anywhere then because she is only diagnosing you and not thinking of you are being disrespectful.
    Anyway. We are going in circles. I hope I have gotten my point across.
    Last edited by sweep_shot; 15th February 2020 at 10:27.


    Bangladeshi Fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I have sufficient self control of my own thoughts to be able to comfortably talk to a woman regardless of her looks. I can interact with respect and maintain self control and have no need for any woman to adjust their behavior to prevent me from losing self control. I control myself and I'm responsible for my actions regardless of what anyone else has done or continues to do.
    No one said anything about losing self-control all I am saying is you are bound to be attracted to someone attractive and you will have impure thoughts about tham and as a Muslim one should try to stay away from those thoughts that's all but I never said that in a professional settings you shouldn't look at a woman my point was in the street or somewhere a Muslim should try not to look at other woman because there is no reason too
    I feel like you're getting triggered for no apparent reason

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Supposing that's the truth, do you look at them while talking? Because no way these girls will generate any kind of perverted thoughts on your mind.
    No.
    You donít.
    Because at the end of the day itís still a woman. You should respect them

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    Now people have a problem with others lowering their gaze too?

  39. #39
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    Is it Muslims or sub continent folks? Not just sub continent I guess conservative upbringing folks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronaldo7 View Post
    No.
    You donít.
    Because at the end of the day itís still a woman. You should respect them
    Is lowering gaze is a sign of respect? Or is it a facade which you are wearing so that your inner animalistic nature doesn't go out of control?


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by minamino View Post
    Am a nominal Muslim if that means anything. Praying on occasions here and there
    In that case it Is an injunction from Allah in the Quran, close thread.

  42. #42
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    I try to avoid or ignore them when they are near me,I only have a word when I need some help or vice versa.
    Last edited by andy0204; 15th February 2020 at 18:08.

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    I wrote Muslims because I was watching an interview where Moeen Ali was not looking at the female interviewer and it looked very weird

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by minamino View Post
    I wrote Muslims because I was watching an interview where Moeen Ali was not looking at the female interviewer and it looked very weird
    I was taught to not look at women as a mark of respect - not as a way of looking down at them!


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

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    It is merely out of respect. And men are supposed to guard their gaze, saves them from unnecessary temptations
    Last edited by Omer.Sandhu; 15th February 2020 at 20:06.

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    I get it's in scripture so many of you can't say anything bad about it, but it just portrays men as primal. In no way is simply looking at a woman a precursor for lust unless there's an underlying issue. By the same logic, looking at items in a shopping centre that you don't own is a temptation to steal (and no, I am not comparing women to objects, simply stating how merely looking at something isn't a path to 'sin').

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubs View Post
    I get it's in scripture so many of you can't say anything bad about it, but it just portrays men as primal. In no way is simply looking at a woman a precursor for lust unless there's an underlying issue. By the same logic, looking at items in a shopping centre that you don't own is a temptation to steal (and no, I am not comparing women to objects, simply stating how merely looking at something isn't a path to 'sin').
    Agreed. What more astonishing is, they claim it is out of respect but when they mention the reason, it's always that "so that they don't fall into list". Which begs the question, IS IT REALLY RESPECT?

    Respect is when you give value to the core principles of a person. But here what you are doing is, you are just creating a facade in order to hide your inner animalistic instincts. This isn't respect. This has nothing to do with respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Well, unattractive ones of course will not generate the same chemistry as attractive ones. This is just brutal truth.
    amazing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Agreed. What more astonishing is, they claim it is out of respect but when they mention the reason, it's always that "so that they don't fall into list". Which begs the question, IS IT REALLY RESPECT?

    Respect is when you give value to the core principles of a person. But here what you are doing is, you are just creating a facade in order to hide your inner animalistic instincts. This isn't respect. This has nothing to do with respect.
    So, how do you think we should offer respect? Do you consider checking women out top to bottom as showing respect? You are being quite confusing.


    Bangladeshi Fan

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    At my present workplace, there is this attractive married lady (around my age) with whom I work daily. I absolutely don't have any conversation with her unless it is an absolute necessity. I don't even ask her how she is doing.

    At my previous workplace, one guy tried to hit on a married lady. I was shocked. No man should hit on a married lady as it is just pure degeneracy. Any man who steals woman from another man is a coward. Period.

    People should be classy. Prevention is better than cure.


    Bangladeshi Fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    So, how do you think we should offer respect? Do you consider checking women out top to bottom as showing respect? You are being quite confusing.
    Just learn the difference between looking at someone and staring/glaring at someone.

    Then learn the difference between respect and courtesy.

    An unknown woman has done nothing in my eyes to earn my respect. How I will behave isn't upon respect but out of courtesy.

    You are getting confused because as I feel it, you have limited experience with different types of human contact. When you write, it's always from one extreme to another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    At my present workplace, there is this attractive married lady (around my age) with whom I work daily. I absolutely don't have any conversation with her unless it is an absolute necessity. I don't even ask her how she is doing.

    At my previous workplace, one guy tried to hit on a married lady. I was shocked. No man should hit on a married lady as it is just pure degeneracy. Any man who steals woman from another man is a coward. Period.

    People should be classy. Prevention is better than cure.
    In case of a pervert like that guy you just mentioned, if he is not staring at the womenís eyes and looking down that makes things even more creepy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Just learn the difference between looking at someone and staring/glaring at someone.

    Then learn the difference between respect and courtesy.

    An unknown woman has done nothing in my eyes to earn my respect. How I will behave isn't upon respect but out of courtesy.

    You are getting confused because as I feel it, you have limited experience with different types of human contact. When you write, it's always from one extreme to another.
    I give you one example.

    Mika Brzezinski is a pretty well known US news presenter. This lady actually cheated on her hubby and ended up marrying her coworker. This could have been prevented if both had clear boundaries.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    I give you one example.

    Mika Brzezinski is a pretty well known US news presenter. This lady actually cheated on her hubby and ended up marrying her coworker. This could have been prevented if both had clear boundaries.
    As I said earlier, from one extreme to another.

    I'll advice this. Try to have conversations with different people and learn about different interactions. From your posts, it's clear that you have opted to remain in a closed isolated environment so that nothing bad will occur. It's same as not coming out of a house because you might ran to an accident. It might happen but then again, if it remain like this, that life will counter productive.

    If Mika brezensky case was so common, you would have seen divorces at the rate of 1:1 against marriage. Because one or the other way, a woman has to face multiple men at their work place or other places. The solution to this is, lock up your women at home and forbid her from interacting with any men so that no men even realise that she exists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Agreed. What more astonishing is, they claim it is out of respect but when they mention the reason, it's always that "so that they don't fall into list". Which begs the question, IS IT REALLY RESPECT?

    Respect is when you give value to the core principles of a person. But here what you are doing is, you are just creating a facade in order to hide your inner animalistic instincts. This isn't respect. This has nothing to do with respect.
    I agree entirely. I simply think it's a view which made more 'sense' when it was conceived (ancient/early medieval Arabia). Although I will say it's mostly harmless in the grand scheme of things. But when I think of it from a woman's point of view, it can easily be seen as her being an 'object' which I'm sure most wouldn't take kindly to.

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    https://www.instagram.com/p/BzafpGagGkz/

    This is the interview in question. A very weird interview. Almost feel bad for the lady.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by minamino View Post
    https://www.instagram.com/p/BzafpGagGkz/

    This is the interview in question. A very weird interview. Almost feel bad for the lady.
    Since it was a light hearted interview, it doesn't seem that weird. It's just feels he knew what was coming and hence decided to avoid eye contact not to make a cringe moment. She also has a giggly personality in this interview and herself faces away knowing what she is asking. It isn't THAT big deal in this case.

    If it was a serious interview, it would have been very difficult to conduct for the interviewer.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by minamino View Post
    https://www.instagram.com/p/BzafpGagGkz/

    This is the interview in question. A very weird interview. Almost feel bad for the lady.
    You are making a mountain out of a molehill. This is a non-issue really.


    Bangladeshi Fan

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    I have noticed that Pakistani cricketers are not like that. Only players who are young or inexperienced act like that which is a good thing.

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    Imagine making this into an issue. Lol, people are just desperate to find something to criticize about at this point.

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    It could be due to lack of self confidence as well. I have seen this happening this to many wannabe macho guys, they are very dominant when it comes to subcontinent women but in front of a confident white girl or westernized brown girl all machoness fizzles out. These guys lack social skills to talk to a bold girl.
    Last edited by Tera Gawaandi; 16th February 2020 at 22:47.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tera Gawaandi View Post
    It could be due to lack of self confidence as well. I have seen this happening this to many wannabe macho guys, they are very dominant when it comes to subcontinent women but in front of a confident white girl or westernized brown girl all machoness fizzles out. These guys lack social skills to talk to a bold girl.
    interesting, i always thought desi machos would have too big egos to succumb to western girls. i think the majority of men are students, such as myself, who generally dont approach girls even in pakistan. And the only macho ones are the poorer shop keepers or laborers etc. Those guys are barely literate and know no english, so thats why they cant talk to western girls.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sindhiboy View Post
    interesting, i always thought desi machos would have too big egos to succumb to western girls. i think the majority of men are students, such as myself, who generally dont approach girls even in pakistan. And the only macho ones are the poorer shop keepers or laborers etc. Those guys are barely literate and know no english, so thats why they cant talk to western girls.
    I didn't understand the relationship between being a macho and talking with a girl. Why you need to be a macho men to talk with a girl?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    I didn't understand the relationship between being a macho and talking with a girl. Why you need to be a macho men to talk with a girl?
    That is "Tera Gawandi"s assumption, not mine. That so called machos can't talk to a confident girl. Which is false

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    Its a cultural thing I guess. Aankhon aankhon mein pyar hojata hai

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    Eye contact is polite and it builds trust. I wouldnít feel comfortable talking to a woman and not making eye contact with her. It would feel rude and unnatural.

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    They are shy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by minamino View Post
    I wrote Muslims because I was watching an interview where Moeen Ali was not looking at the female interviewer and it looked very weird
    He obviously didn't want to make fresh wudhu

    There's some very strong men on this thread who sound like they have an inbuilt umbrella in their genes
    I'm not a perfect human myself so do the same as moeen
    Nice to see evolution is alive and kicking though


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"


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