Rest of the world XI vs West Indies under Clive Lloyd in the same era - Who will win?


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  1. #1
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    Rest of the world XI vs West Indies under Clive Lloyd in the same era - Who will win?

    Pitting a rest of the world test XI against Clive Lloyd's West Indies from 1979-85. Arguably West Indies XI of that period was the best test side ever.



    West Indies XI -1979-85

    Greenidge

    Haynes

    Viv Richards

    Kalicharan

    Lloyd (C)

    Larry Gomes

    Dujon (W)

    Marshall

    Roberts

    Garner

    Holding




    World test XI from 1979-1985


    Gavaskar

    Boycott

    Border

    Amarnath

    Vengsarkar

    Wasim Raja

    Rodney Marsh (W)

    Imran Khan (C)

    Richard Hadlee

    Dennis Lillee

    Abdul Qadir


    World XI from 1979-85 playing exclusively in era of Clive Lloyd has a devastating bowling attack but not as explosive as West Indies with the bat or as fiery pace.World team has 3 great allrounders with West Indies having none ,but still the Calypsos had more match-winners.

    Chose Border ,Amarnath and Vengsarkar for great statistical performances with David Gower and Alan Lamb just missing out .Kapil Dev missed out by a whisker to Richard Hadlee who was more of a fast bowler than a genuine allrounder.Wasim Raja chosen because he could also bowl spin in addition to his great record against the Calypsos.


    In most conditions I would back West Indies,though by the slenderest of margins.It would be very close on the sub-continent or in England.On fast tracks the Calypsos clear favourites.

  2. #2
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    You'd want Allan Lamb in there. He got five centuries against that attack.

    Also you could have Alan Knott who played for some of that period and was a better bat than Marsh.

  3. #3
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    Stephen Fleming should be there in ROW XI.

  4. #4
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    When Clive LLoyd was Captain

    Best Batsman (min 200 runs)
    Player Mat Runs Ave 100 50
    Wasim Raja (PAK) 4 246 61.5 0 2
    BA Edgar (NZ) 3 241 60.25 1 1
    P Willey (ENG) 8 495 49.5 2 2
    GA Gooch (ENG) 8 785 49.06 3 2
    KC Wessels (AUS) 6 529 48.09 1 4
    GP Howarth (NZ) 3 239 47.8 1 0
    G Boycott (ENG) 8 612 43.71 1 4
    AJ Lamb (ENG) 5 386 42.88 3 0
    DB Vengsarkar (INDIA) 10 704 41.41 2 4
    SM Gavaskar (INDIA) 11 745 41.38 3 1
    AR Border (AUS) 14 1015 40.6 1 8
    M Amarnath (INDIA) 8 599 39.93 2 4
    BM Laird (AUS) 5 373 37.3 0 4
    RJ Shastri (INDIA) 11 572 35.75 1 2
    BC Rose (ENG) 3 208 34.66 0 2
    Javed Miandad (PAK) 4 230 32.85 0 3
    WB Phillips (AUS) 6 390 32.5 1 2
    DI Gower (ENG) 10 568 31.55 1 2
    Imran Khan (PAK) 4 204 29.14 1 0
    Yashpal Sharma (INDIA) 6 247 27.44 0 2
    J Dyson (AUS) 5 243 27 1 0
    GM Wood (AUS) 9 425 26.56 0 3
    G Fowler (ENG) 5 260 26 1 1
    N Kapil Dev (INDIA) 11 438 25.76 1 2
    SMH Kirmani (INDIA) 11 333 25.61 0 1
    DW Hookes (AUS) 4 204 25.5 0 1
    RMH Binny (INDIA) 6 270 24.54 0 2
    GM Ritchie (AUS) 5 217 24.11 0 2
    KJ Hughes (AUS) 13 584 23.36 1 2
    IT Botham (ENG) 13 545 22.7 0 4
    MW Gatting (ENG) 5 202 22.44 0 1
    PR Downton (ENG) 8 258 19.84 0 1
    AD Gaekwad (INDIA) 11 374 18.7 0 2
    GF Lawson (AUS) 10 231 16.5 0 0

    Best Bowler (min 10 wickets)
    Player Mat Wkts Ave Econ SR 5W 10W
    Mohammad Nazir (PAK) 4 16 17.68 2.31 45.7 1 0
    Iqbal Qasim (PAK) 4 17 17.94 2.21 48.5 1 0
    Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ) 3 19 19 2.23 51 2 1
    PJW Allott (ENG) 3 14 20.14 2.68 44.9 1 0
    GB Troup (NZ) 3 18 20.61 2.28 54 1 1
    N Kapil Dev (INDIA) 11 46 20.89 2.68 46.6 2 1
    B Yardley (AUS) 3 20 22.3 3.12 42.8 2 1
    Imran Khan (PAK) 4 10 23.6 2.62 54 1 0
    DK Lillee (AUS) 5 24 23.95 2.73 52.6 2 1
    G Dymock (AUS) 2 11 26.27 3.11 50.6 1 0
    CJ McDermott (AUS) 2 10 27.3 3.95 41.4 0 0
    RG Holland (AUS) 3 14 28.85 3.09 55.9 1 1
    GR Dilley (ENG) 6 17 32.58 3.06 63.7 0 0
    IT Botham (ENG) 13 46 32.89 3.59 54.8 2 0
    GF Lawson (AUS) 10 34 34.08 3.23 63.2 2 1
    BL Cairns (NZ) 3 12 34.91 2.7 77.4 1 0
    RGD Willis (ENG) 7 20 38.7 3.96 58.5 1 0
    JE Emburey (ENG) 6 12 39.75 2.18 109.2 1 0
    RM Hogg (AUS) 8 19 42.05 3.44 73.3 1 0
    Maninder Singh (INDIA) 7 12 43.83 2.21 119 0 0
    RJ Shastri (INDIA) 11 22 47.22 2.77 102.2 0 0
    TM Alderman (AUS) 7 16 50.75 3.32 91.6 1 0
    S Venkataraghavan (INDIA) 5 10 58.6 3.08 114 0 0


    Aaj ka kaam kal karo, Kal ka kaam parson. Aisi bhi jaldi kya hai, Jab jeena hai barson.

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    West Indies players stats when Clive LLoyd was captain (1979-1985)

    Batsman (min 200 runs)
    Player Mat Runs Ave 100 50
    CH Lloyd 45 2921 52.16 8 17
    CG Greenidge 40 2819 51.25 6 16
    HA Gomes 33 1999 51.25 7 7
    IVA Richards 42 2832 50.57 9 14
    PJL Dujon 28 1478 43.47 3 6
    RB Richardson 10 566 40.42 3 1
    DL Haynes 45 2567 37.75 7 12
    LG Rowe 5 288 32 1 1
    AME Roberts 19 526 27.68 0 3
    EAE Baptiste 9 224 24.88 0 1
    AI Kallicharran 13 445 23.42 1 1
    AL Logie 8 230 23 1 1
    DA Murray 10 273 21 0 1
    MD Marshall 31 692 19.77 0 4
    DL Murray 9 253 19.46 0 1
    SFAF Bacchus 10 257 17.13 0 1
    MA Holding 37 506 13.67 0 4
    J Garner 37 379 10.82 0 0

    Bowlers (min 10 wickets)
    Player Mat Wkts Ave Econ SR 5W 10W
    MD Marshall 31 151 21.16 2.75 46 12 1
    ST Clarke 5 15 21.2 2.44 52 0 0
    J Garner 37 156 21.41 2.34 54.7 5 0
    MA Holding 37 161 22.39 2.71 49.4 9 1
    CEH Croft 18 75 23.74 2.65 53.6 2 0
    AME Roberts 19 65 27.01 2.63 61.6 2 0
    WW Daniel 4 17 28.11 3.48 48.3 1 0
    RA Harper 13 32 28.56 2.35 72.8 1 0
    EAE Baptiste 9 15 32.4 2.38 81.6 0 0
    CA Walsh 5 13 33.23 2.95 67.5 0 0
    WW Davis 9 22 40.63 3.12 78.1 0 0
    IVA Richards 42 11 56.27 2.16 156.1 0 0
    HA Gomes 33 11 58 2.26 153.9 0 0


    Aaj ka kaam kal karo, Kal ka kaam parson. Aisi bhi jaldi kya hai, Jab jeena hai barson.

  6. #6
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    @MMHS @Robert @Junaids please come here

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    I would have gone for this lineup for ROW
    1. Gooch
    2. Boycott
    3. Wessels
    4. Gavaskar
    5. Alan Lamb
    6. Wayne Phillips (WK)
    7. Imran
    8. Kapil
    9. Hadlee
    10. Lillee
    11. Iqbal Qasim

    Against West Indies lineup of
    1. Greenidge
    2. Haynes
    3. Richards
    4. Gomes
    5. LLoyd
    6. Richardson
    7. Dujon
    8. Roberts
    9. Marshall
    10. Holding
    11. Garner

    Gavaskar scored a 200+ at No.4 so he gets in on technicality. Wayne Phillips was decent keeper but was much better batsman then other WK of the era. Iqbal Qasim was underated spinner who performed well against west indies.

    I give ROW slight edge because they have no holes in XI and could bat deep.
    For WI , Haynes was not at his best during this era (He got better and better in ODI's though). Also lack of 5th bowler would hurt WI as Gomes/Richards were not good bowlers.


    Aaj ka kaam kal karo, Kal ka kaam parson. Aisi bhi jaldi kya hai, Jab jeena hai barson.

  8. #8
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    West Indies should win easily. It doesn't matter which players you select for World XI.


    Bangladeshi Man

  9. #9
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    1. Jimmy Cook
    2. Sunil Gavaskar
    3. Peter Kirsten
    4. Martin Crowe
    5. Allan Border
    6. Clive Rice
    7. Imran Khan (c)
    8. Ray Jennings (wk)
    9. Ian Botham
    10. Sir Richard Hadlee
    11. Abdul Qadir

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    1. Jimmy Cook
    2. Sunil Gavaskar
    3. Peter Kirsten
    4. Martin Crowe
    5. Allan Border
    6. Clive Rice
    7. Imran Khan (c)
    8. Ray Jennings (wk)
    9. Ian Botham
    10. Sir Richard Hadlee
    11. Abdul Qadir
    Why Ian Botham and no Kapil Dev ?Kapil was the best allrounder against West Indies,even ahead of Imran.Who no Gooch,who was the best opener against the great pace quartet?

  11. #11
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    Please come @MMHS I apologize for forgetting Graham Gooch who should replace Geoff Boycott.IMO the best opener against great pace of his era.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Thakor View Post
    Pitting a rest of the world test XI against Clive Lloyd's West Indies from 1979-85. Arguably West Indies XI of that period was the best test side ever.



    West Indies XI -1979-85

    Greenidge

    Haynes

    Viv Richards

    Kalicharan

    Lloyd (C)

    Larry Gomes

    Dujon (W)

    Marshall

    Roberts

    Garner

    Holding




    World test XI from 1979-1985


    Gavaskar

    Boycott

    Border

    Amarnath

    Vengsarkar

    Wasim Raja

    Rodney Marsh (W)

    Imran Khan (C)

    Richard Hadlee

    Dennis Lillee

    Abdul Qadir


    World XI from 1979-85 playing exclusively in era of Clive Lloyd has a devastating bowling attack but not as explosive as West Indies with the bat or as fiery pace.World team has 3 great allrounders with West Indies having none ,but still the Calypsos had more match-winners.

    Chose Border ,Amarnath and Vengsarkar for great statistical performances with David Gower and Alan Lamb just missing out .Kapil Dev missed out by a whisker to Richard Hadlee who was more of a fast bowler than a genuine allrounder.Wasim Raja chosen because he could also bowl spin in addition to his great record against the Calypsos.


    In most conditions I would back West Indies,though by the slenderest of margins.It would be very close on the sub-continent or in England.On fast tracks the Calypsos clear favourites.
    Sorry I apologize for selecting Boycott instead of Gooch .Gooch was the best exponent of the great pace quartet of his era.Please bear with me.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Thakor View Post
    Why Ian Botham and no Kapil Dev ?
    Because of the Jubilee Test at Bombay!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Stephen Fleming should be there in ROW XI.
    Didn’t play until 1994.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Thakor View Post
    Please come @MMHS I apologize for forgetting Graham Gooch who should replace Geoff Boycott.IMO the best opener against great pace of his era.

    Hmm, Boycott missed them in 1976 as he was in self-exposed exile at Yorkshire CCC.

    He played ten tests in a row against them in 1980-81, opening with Gooch. The latter missed them in 1984 as he was banned (and how we needed him!).

  16. #16
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    World test XI from 1979-1985


    Gavaskar

    Gooch

    Border

    Vengsarkar

    Lamb

    Imran Khan (C)

    Richard Hadlee

    Knott (w)

    Dennis Lillee

    Abdul Qadir


    Gooch and Border can bowl a bit if need me. Lillee and Imran can bowl really long spells.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    World test XI from 1979-1985


    Gavaskar

    Gooch

    Border

    Vengsarkar

    Lamb

    Imran Khan (C)

    Richard Hadlee

    Knott (w)

    Dennis Lillee

    Abdul Qadir


    Gooch and Border can bowl a bit if need me. Lillee and Imran can bowl really long spells.

    Oops, a player light! Stick Kapil Dev in.

  18. #18
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    How good was Botham's century in Bombay? Because in terms of opposition bowling attack, I think it was India's worst ever bowling attack in Indian conditions. Not a single quality spinner. Kapil Dev a lone man with no support from spinners.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    How good was Botham's century in Bombay? Because in terms of opposition bowling attack, I think it was India's worst ever bowling attack in Indian conditions. Not a single quality spinner. Kapil Dev a lone man with no support from spinners.
    That attack was Kapil, Gavri, Binny, then Doshi who had a pretty good record and Yadav who was competent at test level IIRC. I would describe the attack as workmanlike.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    How good was Botham's century in Bombay? Because in terms of opposition bowling attack, I think it was India's worst ever bowling attack in Indian conditions. Not a single quality spinner. Kapil Dev a lone man with no support from spinners.
    Though consider that Boycott, Gooch, Larkins and Gower got 36 runs between them in the first dig.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    That attack was Kapil, Gavri, Binny, then Doshi who had a pretty good record and Yadav who was competent at test level IIRC. I would describe the attack as workmanlike.
    Barring Kapil, they all are pretty much nobodies in international cricket. in 70s, we hd Bedi, Chandra and Prasanna.

    India's bowling in 80s post retirement of spin quartet was all about Kapil Dev.

    In India, we had a better bowling in 90s than 80s with Kumble and Srinath.

    In 00s, we had Zaheer, Kumble and Harbhajan. They all were world class at home. And in 10s, India had Ashwin and Jadeja and with the fast bowlers doing brilliantly as well.

    That was the weakest Indian attack ever with Kapil the only world class bowler.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Barring Kapil, they all are pretty much nobodies in international cricket. in 70s, we hd Bedi, Chandra and Prasanna.

    India's bowling in 80s post retirement of spin quartet was all about Kapil Dev.

    In India, we had a better bowling in 90s than 80s with Kumble and Srinath.

    In 00s, we had Zaheer, Kumble and Harbhajan. They all were world class at home. And in 10s, India had Ashwin and Jadeja and with the fast bowlers doing brilliantly as well.

    That was the weakest Indian attack ever with Kapil the only world class bowler.
    Interesting that Gavaskar, Vengsarkar, Vishwanath and Kapil didn't get many runs either - Sunny got a 49 in both innings, but other than that it was a low scoring match which England won by ten wickets. Emburey didn't get to bowl either innings, and Underwood barely bowled too - there was a bit of swing and some bounce too, nothing for the spinners. Only Botham scored heavily, rescuing England form 58-5.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...m-stuart-broad

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...-india-1979-80

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Interesting that Gavaskar, Vengsarkar, Vishwanath and Kapil didn't get many runs either - Sunny got a 49 in both innings, but other than that it was a low scoring match which England won by ten wickets. Emburey didn't get to bowl either innings, and Underwood barely bowled too - there was a bit of swing and some bounce too, nothing for the spinners. Only Botham scored heavily, rescuing England form 58-5.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...m-stuart-broad

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...-india-1979-80
    Yes, a great inning no questioning on it but my argument only was that the bowling attack was quite mediocre with Kapil being a lone great bowler. Indian bowling today is miles better than that one.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Barring Kapil, they all are pretty much nobodies in international cricket. in 70s, we hd Bedi, Chandra and Prasanna.

    India's bowling in 80s post retirement of spin quartet was all about Kapil Dev.

    In India, we had a better bowling in 90s than 80s with Kumble and Srinath.

    In 00s, we had Zaheer, Kumble and Harbhajan. They all were world class at home. And in 10s, India had Ashwin and Jadeja and with the fast bowlers doing brilliantly as well.

    That was the weakest Indian attack ever with Kapil the only world class bowler.
    India's 80's bowling lacked a match-winning spinner. Most only performed in 1-2 matches then faded away. As a result India dropped home series to West Indies , England , Pakistan.
    India has better away record away in 80's , then in 90's.
    Kumble was major game changer for India at home in 90's.
    Kapil did have some mediumfast bowler support but they were heavy condition dependent. Ghavri ,Roger Binny , Madanlal , Chetan Sharma comes to mind. India did beat England in England and nearly won in Australia. In ODI's India Won 83 WC with some of these bowlers. Also 85 B&H cup which featured every major team.


    Aaj ka kaam kal karo, Kal ka kaam parson. Aisi bhi jaldi kya hai, Jab jeena hai barson.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Yes, a great inning no questioning on it but my argument only was that the bowling attack was quite mediocre with Kapil being a lone great bowler. Indian bowling today is miles better than that one.
    English bowling today is much worse

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