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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    everyone in india clamored for shami over chahal. We don't need chahal for that game. shami bhuvi and bumrah should have played.
    Point is it wasn't India's best team vs n.z and it wasn't even a odi game lmao.
    chahal was the best bowler in nz seines from india

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    yea you can't juxtapose the combination of a pre prime fab 4 from the indian batting unit into the 90s era and claim that wasim would have got the better of them. Wasim nor waqar never faced the prime versions of India's fab 4.

    waqar has always been a dud in australia. He is useless in those conditons. I can't rate a guy who doesnt perform against the best team. He had a 4 year prime where he dominated weak batsmen. Not to mention he failed against india. Don't think he would ever had success vs india in Asian conditions. I rate shoaib above him because he has the x factor ability to run through sides.
    So I canít compare a pre-prime Fab-4 (which is not completely true because Sachin was in his prime and Laxman would go on to perform well in Australia during the same year) but you can compare a post-prime Waqar? And you ignore everything I mentioned about a decade of no-Indian tours between his debut and his second tour?

    I canít spell it out for you any clearer.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesozoic View Post
    Thread is about emerging bowlers and people here discussing Waqar, Asif , Shami and Ishant...

    Anyways..if you compare both the current test bowling attacks, I think India are comfortably infront in terms of both experience and skillset. Odis , it could go either ways. T20s doesn't matter.

    But once you bring in the word "emerging" , I think it becomes quite subjective. If we are talking about bowlers who're either on the fringes of the national team or are very new to int'l cricket, I think Pakistan are comfortably ahead. But if you talk about potential future int'l bowlers toiling in the domestics, then it could again go either way.

    So, for now I think Pakistan is slightly ahead in emerging fast bowling resources.
    Not slightly, we have four bowlers who can bowl 90+ MPH in the setup right now.

    India has a few who can do the same but the way their system works, they struggle to do so in the international arena.

    Their current bowlers have been excellent though but are on their way out.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingpin786 View Post
    chahal was the best bowler in nz seines from india
    that pitch for semis was not conducive for spin bowling. I don't care about his bilateral performances. Shami also destroyed them in2018 bilaterals which india won 4-1

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    So I can’t compare a pre-prime Fab-4 (which is not completely true because Sachin was in his prime and Laxman would go on to perform well in Australia during the same year) but you can compare a post-prime Waqar? And you ignore everything I mentioned about a decade of no-Indian tours between his debut and his second tour?

    I can’t spell it out for you any clearer.
    laxman was definitely pre prime. prime laxman was post 2004 to 2009.

    tenda is hard to say. tenda is overrated by nostalgic idiots anyway. tenda was at his peak post 04 as well to be fair.

    wasim I agree is an ATG. waqar just fed off him.When he faced better teams in difficult so within a he failed.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    waqar averages 40 plus vs india and australia. That too a weak 90s india. He struggled to make an impact vs the best teams.
    India was a minor team during the 90s so performance against them should not count anyway specially for a subcontinent player as they dont have to test themselves in Asian conditions. Every players will have a team he wouldnt perform against just like Sachin who has poor stats against Pakistan one of the better teams during his peak era.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    that pitch for semis was not conducive for spin bowling. I don't care about his bilateral performances. Shami also destroyed them in2018 bilaterals which india won 4-1
    Then how jaspritbumrah got outbowled by two spinners santner 2for 34 and jadeja 1for 34

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Waqar is a test legend. In ODIs, he is a lot overrated. His ER is very high for his own era.

    However, all the three bowlers are certainly better than anyone Pakistan produced in last 20 years.
    He was a genuine wicket taker in odi and attacking bowler who can go for runs. 13 5 wickets haul and many 4 wickets. Does not need your approval for that.0

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRsohail View Post
    He was a genuine wicket taker in odi and attacking bowler who can go for runs. 13 5 wickets haul and many 4 wickets. Does not need your approval for that.0
    Approval for what?

  10. #90
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    Lmao now this is shamelessly defending your own reasoning.... I was going through this thread and you literally said that waqar was the sole reason for losing a match yet your not accepting the fact bumrah is a yesterday's kid who lost 2 crucial matches in tournaments in such short career span and hasn't played many matches to be considered better than waqar LOL

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkness View Post
    Lmao now this is shamelessly defending your own reasoning.... I was going through this thread and you literally said that waqar was the sole reason for losing a match yet your not accepting the fact bumrah is a yesterday's kid who lost 2 crucial matches in tournaments in such short career span and hasn't played many matches to be considered better than waqar LOL
    Plz quote whoever you respond.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingpin786 View Post
    Then how jaspritbumrah got outbowled by two spinners santner 2for 34 and jadeja 1for 34
    You don't understand. Bunrah does a containment job because people are afraid to play shots vs him. Look at his performance vs a rampant English side when india lost. Bumrah was the best bowler for india. His death bowling was insane.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    India was a minor team during the 90s so performance against them should not count anyway specially for a subcontinent player as they dont have to test themselves in Asian conditions. Every players will have a team he wouldnt perform against just like Sachin who has poor stats against Pakistan one of the better teams during his peak era.
    india was strong at home. nighty Aussies got a phainta there in 97 98.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    You don't understand. Bunrah does a containment job because people are afraid to play shots vs him. Look at his performance vs a rampant English side when india lost. Bumrah was the best bowler for india. His death bowling was insane.
    if a bowler on friendly pitches perform contain job then then it means bowler is mediocre if mat henry or boult had done containment instead of picking wickets they would have lost match

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    india was strong at home. nighty Aussies got a phainta there in 97 98.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingpin786 View Post
    if a bowler on friendly pitches perform contain job then then it means bowler is mediocre if mat henry or boult had done containment instead of picking wickets they would have lost match
    India was strong at home but not for Pakistan as they play in similar conditions. Pakistan beat India in India a few times in the 90 and even recently in 20s with much worst side and the obviously they stopped playing. So Waqar did not really have to prove himself against Indians as they were the minor team.

    Bumrah is getting found out for sure - He is containing because he is struggling to take as many wickets. What is going to be interesting is how he adapts to this as all bowlers have to adapt if they are going to have long successful careers.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    India was strong at home but not for Pakistan as they play in similar conditions. Pakistan beat India in India a few times in the 90 and even recently in 20s with much worst side and the obviously they stopped playing. So Waqar did not really have to prove himself against Indians as they were the minor team.

    Bumrah is getting found out for sure - He is containing because he is struggling to take as many wickets. What is going to be interesting is how he adapts to this as all bowlers have to adapt if they are going to have long successful careers.
    waqar had to prove himself vs india because india in Asian conditions are still powerful. Always was. You won 2 tests or 3 at best in 90s. india winning one.

    It was pretty close vs a weak indian team.

    Waqar was trash vs australia the best team. So yes it does matter. You got to have a complete record to be an ATG. Waqar lacked that. I cannot put him above even shoaib who has a better record vs top teams actually. waqar feasted on poor batsmen from a weak era in early 90s. Many people feel he was already past his prime 4 years into his career. He had a major injury which dint help obviously but he was getting figured out prior to getting seriously injured.

    Pakistan never won a test series in india in 2000 era. india won a series in pakistan though.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    waqar had to prove himself vs india because india in Asian conditions are still powerful. Always was. You won 2 tests or 3 at best in 90s. india winning one.

    It was pretty close vs a weak indian team.

    Waqar was trash vs australia the best team. So yes it does matter. You got to have a complete record to be an ATG. Waqar lacked that. I cannot put him above even shoaib who has a better record vs top teams actually. waqar feasted on poor batsmen from a weak era in early 90s. Many people feel he was already past his prime 4 years into his career. He had a major injury which dint help obviously but he was getting figured out prior to getting seriously injured.

    Pakistan never won a test series in india in 2000 era. india won a series in pakistan though.
    Waqar has got 370 wickets at second best strike or even best over a long career that proves everything. Only team he has a bad record is Australia as India he hardly played and didnt matter - Pakistan won more game than they lost during Waqar career span.

    Waqar is definitely above shoaib as he was successful longer where shoaib career span was very small and was injured a lot. Shoaib should have reduced his speed like lee gradually over the course of his career to extend his career but he was obsessed with speed and still bowled at over 90mph even in his last few games.

    By you logic Sachin is not a great as he had poor stats against Pakistan despite playing on roads against them and also feasted on Pakistan poor bowling line-up during transition phase when the greats retired. Actually all 3 Wasim - Waqar - Shoaib got the better of Sachin at their peak and Sachin only started playing better against them during twilight of their careers.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    Waqar has got 370 wickets at second best strike or even best over a long career that proves everything. Only team he has a bad record is Australia as India he hardly played and didnt matter - Pakistan won more game than they lost during Waqar career span.

    Waqar is definitely above shoaib as he was successful longer where shoaib career span was very small and was injured a lot. Shoaib should have reduced his speed like lee gradually over the course of his career to extend his career but he was obsessed with speed and still bowled at over 90mph even in his last few games.

    By you logic Sachin is not a great as he had poor stats against Pakistan despite playing on roads against them and also feasted on Pakistan poor bowling line-up during transition phase when the greats retired. Actually all 3 Wasim - Waqar - Shoaib got the better of Sachin at their peak and Sachin only started playing better against them during twilight of their careers.
    sachin isn't. he really isn't lol. Only nostalgic idiots rate sachin. He is overrated. He never performs in a winning cause particularly in test matches away from home.

    In his so called illustrious career he barely had a handful of match winning innings away from home. Laxman and dravid were the real heroes. Sachin only performed against Australia. You got to have a complete record to be a true Legned.

  19. #99
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    Shaheen Shah Afridi to me is a bowler who will stand head and shoulders above his counterparts in India.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    sachin isn't. he really isn't lol. Only nostalgic idiots rate sachin. He is overrated. He never performs in a winning cause particularly in test matches away from home.

    In his so called illustrious career he barely had a handful of match winning innings away from home. Laxman and dravid were the real heroes. Sachin only performed against Australia. You got to have a complete record to be a true Legned.
    Man you must be very young - Shami is not a great in anyone opinion. He is just a good bowler like many other at any given time in international cricket.


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