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  1. #1
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    Pervez Hoodhbhoy: Coronavirus is Pakistanís debt for lifelong rejection of Darwin

    Charles Darwin is a name Pakistanis are taught to hate. School teachers and university professors tasked with teaching his evolutionary theory usually skip the subject or, if they go ahead, first soften it with a ton of scorn. A commonly used biology school textbook rubbishes the theory, claiming that evolution of species is tantamount to assuming that “a motor car is evolved” when two rickshaws collide. Imran Khan, in his 2002 article, blamed the West’s follies upon, “Philosophers like Darwin, who with his half-baked theory of evolution had supposedly disproved the creation of men and hence religion, were read and revered”.

    With the corona apocalypse looming ahead, it doesn’t matter that Darwin was a naturalist, biologist and geologist rather than philosopher. It also doesn’t matter that Darwin gets lashed regularly by Christian, Jewish and Hindu fundamentalists as well. Yet every hope for dealing with today’s rogue virus rests squarely upon Darwin’s 200-year-old discovery of the principle of natural selection.

    In a nutshell: natural selection says that life on Earth didn’t come pre-purposed and pre-formed, as tradition insists. Instead, it holds that, whether for man or microbe, only those forms of life best adapted to a specific environment survive while all others die away. Most crucially, evolution maintains that new kinds of life and new molecules randomly appear. A few — like coronavirus — will chance upon some suitable animal or human cell and thrive.

    Not convinced? Then get yourself some slides and a powerful microscope — actually, a million-dollar electron microscope would work best. Then wait and watch as cells reproduce. You will soon see some that are imperfect copies. While most bad ones die away, a few survive and then proliferate.

    This, for example, is how cancerous cells form. Experiments at the Sloan-Kettering Cancer Centre show exactly how certain common species of bacteria respond when their environment is changed. This led distinguished molecular biologist, Harmit Malik, to remark that natural evolution is “the world’s definitive game of cat and mouse. Viruses evolve, the host adapts, proteins change, viruses evade them. It never ends”.

    Darwinian selection is as fundamental to biology as Newton’s Law is to physics. Denying the theory of gravity will not cause gravity to disappear. However, it will certainly destroy our ability to do physics. Similarly, not teaching evolutionary theory won’t stop brand new forms of viruses from emerging. But then forget about any scientific approach to diseases and epidemics.

    Without Darwinian selection one can’t even begin to understand microbial-host interaction, the evolution of pathogens, or start developing drug and vaccines. So go ahead and blame Darwin for inventing the notion that only the fittest survive. But then also punish Newton because apples insist on falling downward rather than rising upward.

    Now the good news: most educated people are beginning to understand why scientific approaches work and unscientific ones don’t. Better still, even ultra-conservative and science-rejecting world leaders are now begging scientists to speed up the rescue work. For all their talks about faith and calls to bang utensils or clap from balconies, they end up pleading for anti-coronavirus vaccines and drugs. Bluff, bluster and bombast have limits.

    Take Narendra Modi and his claims of ancient India’s vast medical expertise. For years he and his Hindutva crew have dwelt upon the therapeutic powers of gaumutra (cow urine) while also extolling ayurveda and yoga. But India is not calling for emergency dispatches of ‘Cow-ka-Cola’ and dung to India’s most affected areas.

    On our side of the border we have yet to order a shipload of Ajwa-Khajoor (dates from Ajwa in Saudi Arabia) touted as cure for all diseases by Maulana Tariq Jameel, Pakistan’s most popular preacher and a staunch Imran Khan ally. Nor is the government arranging sacrifices of a million kala bakras or mass importing olive oil and kalonji.

    Instead, the mood is sober and reflective in all power centres. Last Saturday, Pope Francis held a dramatic, solitary prayer service at the Vatican. Speaking to an eerily empty square, he urged the world to see the Covid-19 pandemic as a test of solidarity. Three hundred years ago, the Church finally gave up attributing plagues and natural catastrophes to divine punishment.

    Iran has learned a bitter lesson as well. Last month, its religious authorities recognised they had made a colossal blunder by initially allowing pilgrims to visit shrines in Qom and Mashhad. This permission was later rescinded but Iran has reported over 3,000 dead and the disease has spilled over into Pakistan and Afghanistan.

    The shocker, however, was Saudi Arabia’s suspension of umrah, followed by an announcement that a decision on Haj will be taken soon. This is very wise. Getting millions together — who would subsequently spread the virus in their home countries — could be just as serious as dropping an atomic bomb on each Muslim capital. Consider, for example, that in the middle of the 14th century more than half the population of England died, and that 25m perished in various parts of Europe.

    What if this year’s Haj was under Imran Khan rather than Mohammad bin Salman? Would he have waffled there as indeed he has in Pakistan? The PTI government has seriously downplayed the seriousness of the situation. Although Tablighi Jamaat congregations have finally been banned, the damage has already been done. Shrine visits still continue.

    Fortunately, the Sindh and Balochistan governments have shown more resolve. Moreover, the military seems to be taking orders from somewhere other than the government and is forcibly shutting down possible infection hotspots. Checkpoints now dot cities across Pakistan, somewhat inhibiting the free flow of people and the viruses they carry. Whether this will suffice remains to be seen.

    Thanks to biological science — the foundation of which was laid by Charles Darwin — the coronavirus will eventually turn out to be a deadly but controllable affair. Its final worldwide death toll may run into many tens, or perhaps hundreds, of thousands. Still, compared to the toll exacted by pre-scientific era plagues, this will be small. Your life may well be saved by some yet to be invented drug or vaccine. All beneficiaries of modern medicine should surely forgive Darwin for his supposed transgressions.

    https://theprint.in/opinion/coronavi...darwin/395478/
    Last edited by MenInG; 6th April 2020 at 13:34.

  2. #2
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    valid points made by Pervez.. religion has always taken precedence over science.. may be this crisis can teach people that Science is foremost.

  3. #3
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    Quite an absurd article.

    Evolution is just one aspect of science. Rejecting this theory doesn't mean you are suddenly rejecting all of science.

    I personally reject evolution theory but I embrace all other scientific theories.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazam View Post
    Charles Darwin is a name Pakistanis are taught to hate. School teachers and university professors tasked with teaching his evolutionary theory usually skip the subject or, if they go ahead, first soften it with a ton of scorn. A commonly used biology school textbook rubbishes the theory, claiming that evolution of species is tantamount to assuming that “a motor car is evolved” when two rickshaws collide. Imran Khan, in his 2002 article, blamed the West’s follies upon, “Philosophers like Darwin, who with his half-baked theory of evolution had supposedly disproved the creation of men and hence religion, were read and revered”.

    With the corona apocalypse looming ahead, it doesn’t matter that Darwin was a naturalist, biologist and geologist rather than philosopher. It also doesn’t matter that Darwin gets lashed regularly by Christian, Jewish and Hindu fundamentalists as well. Yet every hope for dealing with today’s rogue virus rests squarely upon Darwin’s 200-year-old discovery of the principle of natural selection.


    In a nutshell: natural selection says that life on Earth didn’t come pre-purposed and pre-formed, as tradition insists. Instead, it holds that, whether for man or microbe, only those forms of life best adapted to a specific environment survive while all others die away. Most crucially, evolution maintains that new kinds of life and new molecules randomly appear. A few — like coronavirus — will chance upon some suitable animal or human cell and thrive.

    Not convinced? Then get yourself some slides and a powerful microscope — actually, a million-dollar electron microscope would work best. Then wait and watch as cells reproduce. You will soon see some that are imperfect copies. While most bad ones die away, a few survive and then proliferate.

    This, for example, is how cancerous cells form. Experiments at the Sloan-Kettering Cancer Centre show exactly how certain common species of bacteria respond when their environment is changed. This led distinguished molecular biologist, Harmit Malik, to remark that natural evolution is “the world’s definitive game of cat and mouse. Viruses evolve, the host adapts, proteins change, viruses evade them. It never ends”.

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    Also read: Mecca to Vatican — COVID-19 proves when human beings are in peril, gods flee first

    Darwinian selection is as fundamental to biology as Newton’s Law is to physics. Denying the theory of gravity will not cause gravity to disappear. However, it will certainly destroy our ability to do physics. Similarly, not teaching evolutionary theory won’t stop brand new forms of viruses from emerging. But then forget about any scientific approach to diseases and epidemics.

    Without Darwinian selection one can’t even begin to understand microbial-host interaction, the evolution of pathogens, or start developing drug and vaccines. So go ahead and blame Darwin for inventing the notion that only the fittest survive. But then also punish Newton because apples insist on falling downward rather than rising upward.

    Now the good news: most educated people are beginning to understand why scientific approaches work and unscientific ones don’t. Better still, even ultra-conservative and science-rejecting world leaders are now begging scientists to speed up the rescue work. For all their talks about faith and calls to bang utensils or clap from balconies, they end up pleading for anti-coronavirus vaccines and drugs. Bluff, bluster and bombast have limits.

    Take Narendra Modi and his claims of ancient India’s vast medical expertise. For years he and his Hindutva crew have dwelt upon the therapeutic powers of gaumutra (cow urine) while also extolling ayurveda and yoga. But India is not calling for emergency dispatches of ‘Cow-ka-Cola’ and dung to India’s most affected areas.


    On our side of the border we have yet to order a shipload of Ajwa-Khajoor (dates from Ajwa in Saudi Arabia) touted as cure for all diseases by Maulana Tariq Jameel, Pakistan’s most popular preacher and a staunch Imran Khan ally. Nor is the government arranging sacrifices of a million kala bakras or mass importing olive oil and kalonji.

    Instead, the mood is sober and reflective in all power centres. Last Saturday, Pope Francis held a dramatic, solitary prayer service at the Vatican. Speaking to an eerily empty square, he urged the world to see the Covid-19 pandemic as a test of solidarity. Three hundred years ago, the Church finally gave up attributing plagues and natural catastrophes to divine punishment.

    Iran has learned a bitter lesson as well. Last month, its religious authorities recognised they had made a colossal blunder by initially allowing pilgrims to visit shrines in Qom and Mashhad. This permission was later rescinded but Iran has reported over 3,000 dead and the disease has spilled over into Pakistan and Afghanistan.

    The shocker, however, was Saudi Arabia’s suspension of umrah, followed by an announcement that a decision on Haj will be taken soon. This is very wise. Getting millions together — who would subsequently spread the virus in their home countries — could be just as serious as dropping an atomic bomb on each Muslim capital. Consider, for example, that in the middle of the 14th century more than half the population of England died, and that 25m perished in various parts of Europe.

    Also read: Vedic plastic surgery to test-tube Karna — non-science claims flowed from Modi downwards

    What if this year’s Haj was under Imran Khan rather than Mohammad bin Salman? Would he have waffled there as indeed he has in Pakistan? The PTI government has seriously downplayed the seriousness of the situation. Although Tablighi Jamaat congregations have finally been banned, the damage has already been done. Shrine visits still continue.

    Fortunately, the Sindh and Balochistan governments have shown more resolve. Moreover, the military seems to be taking orders from somewhere other than the government and is forcibly shutting down possible infection hotspots. Checkpoints now dot cities across Pakistan, somewhat inhibiting the free flow of people and the viruses they carry. Whether this will suffice remains to be seen.

    Thanks to biological science — the foundation of which was laid by Charles Darwin — the coronavirus will eventually turn out to be a deadly but controllable affair. Its final worldwide death toll may run into many tens, or perhaps hundreds, of thousands. Still, compared to the toll exacted by pre-scientific era plagues, this will be small. Your life may well be saved by some yet to be invented drug or vaccine. All beneficiaries of modern medicine should surely forgive Darwin for his supposed transgressions.

    Source : Dawn and the pri Written by : Pervez Hoodboy
    https://theprint.in/opinion/coronavi...darwin/395478/
    what is the connection of darwin's theory with corona virus

  5. #5
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    Random assumptions from a guy who seems to be a believer in scientism as a belief system

  6. #6
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    Some valid points but the title and whole Darwin reference is clickbait.

  7. #7
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    As expected, Pervez Hoodhbhoy is using corona to peddle his usual anti religion, anti Imran, anti military rhetoric.

    Law/Theory of evolution makes sense and philosophers like Rumi, Iqbal(our national poet) believed in it. But obviously, Pervez won't tell us that.

  8. #8
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    Yeh janab apni dukaan chamka rahay hain..... May we ask if rejection of science is the reason we have corona in Pakistan then what is the reason for 300,000+ cases in the US?

  9. #9
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    I think he is a scientist who believes in science. Getting the he deserves obviously

  10. #10
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    ĒThe military is taking orders from somewhere elseĒ.

    Um what? First they say that the army controls Pakistan and now this.
    Last edited by AdamM97; 6th April 2020 at 18:35.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazam View Post
    Charles Darwin is a name Pakistanis are taught to hate. School teachers and university professors tasked with teaching his evolutionary theory usually skip the subject or, if they go ahead, first soften it with a ton of scorn. A commonly used biology school textbook rubbishes the theory, claiming that evolution of species is tantamount to assuming that “a motor car is evolved” when two rickshaws collide. Imran Khan, in his 2002 article, blamed the West’s follies upon, “Philosophers like Darwin, who with his half-baked theory of evolution had supposedly disproved the creation of men and hence religion, were read and revered”.

    With the corona apocalypse looming ahead, it doesn’t matter that Darwin was a naturalist, biologist and geologist rather than philosopher. It also doesn’t matter that Darwin gets lashed regularly by Christian, Jewish and Hindu fundamentalists as well. Yet every hope for dealing with today’s rogue virus rests squarely upon Darwin’s 200-year-old discovery of the principle of natural selection.

    In a nutshell: natural selection says that life on Earth didn’t come pre-purposed and pre-formed, as tradition insists. Instead, it holds that, whether for man or microbe, only those forms of life best adapted to a specific environment survive while all others die away. Most crucially, evolution maintains that new kinds of life and new molecules randomly appear. A few — like coronavirus — will chance upon some suitable animal or human cell and thrive.

    Not convinced? Then get yourself some slides and a powerful microscope — actually, a million-dollar electron microscope would work best. Then wait and watch as cells reproduce. You will soon see some that are imperfect copies. While most bad ones die away, a few survive and then proliferate.

    This, for example, is how cancerous cells form. Experiments at the Sloan-Kettering Cancer Centre show exactly how certain common species of bacteria respond when their environment is changed. This led distinguished molecular biologist, Harmit Malik, to remark that natural evolution is “the world’s definitive game of cat and mouse. Viruses evolve, the host adapts, proteins change, viruses evade them. It never ends”.

    Darwinian selection is as fundamental to biology as Newton’s Law is to physics. Denying the theory of gravity will not cause gravity to disappear. However, it will certainly destroy our ability to do physics. Similarly, not teaching evolutionary theory won’t stop brand new forms of viruses from emerging. But then forget about any scientific approach to diseases and epidemics.

    Without Darwinian selection one can’t even begin to understand microbial-host interaction, the evolution of pathogens, or start developing drug and vaccines. So go ahead and blame Darwin for inventing the notion that only the fittest survive. But then also punish Newton because apples insist on falling downward rather than rising upward.

    Now the good news: most educated people are beginning to understand why scientific approaches work and unscientific ones don’t. Better still, even ultra-conservative and science-rejecting world leaders are now begging scientists to speed up the rescue work. For all their talks about faith and calls to bang utensils or clap from balconies, they end up pleading for anti-coronavirus vaccines and drugs. Bluff, bluster and bombast have limits.

    Take Narendra Modi and his claims of ancient India’s vast medical expertise. For years he and his Hindutva crew have dwelt upon the therapeutic powers of gaumutra (cow urine) while also extolling ayurveda and yoga. But India is not calling for emergency dispatches of ‘Cow-ka-Cola’ and dung to India’s most affected areas.

    On our side of the border we have yet to order a shipload of Ajwa-Khajoor (dates from Ajwa in Saudi Arabia) touted as cure for all diseases by Maulana Tariq Jameel, Pakistan’s most popular preacher and a staunch Imran Khan ally. Nor is the government arranging sacrifices of a million kala bakras or mass importing olive oil and kalonji.

    Instead, the mood is sober and reflective in all power centres. Last Saturday, Pope Francis held a dramatic, solitary prayer service at the Vatican. Speaking to an eerily empty square, he urged the world to see the Covid-19 pandemic as a test of solidarity. Three hundred years ago, the Church finally gave up attributing plagues and natural catastrophes to divine punishment.

    Iran has learned a bitter lesson as well. Last month, its religious authorities recognised they had made a colossal blunder by initially allowing pilgrims to visit shrines in Qom and Mashhad. This permission was later rescinded but Iran has reported over 3,000 dead and the disease has spilled over into Pakistan and Afghanistan.

    The shocker, however, was Saudi Arabia’s suspension of umrah, followed by an announcement that a decision on Haj will be taken soon. This is very wise. Getting millions together — who would subsequently spread the virus in their home countries — could be just as serious as dropping an atomic bomb on each Muslim capital. Consider, for example, that in the middle of the 14th century more than half the population of England died, and that 25m perished in various parts of Europe.

    What if this year’s Haj was under Imran Khan rather than Mohammad bin Salman? Would he have waffled there as indeed he has in Pakistan? The PTI government has seriously downplayed the seriousness of the situation. Although Tablighi Jamaat congregations have finally been banned, the damage has already been done. Shrine visits still continue.

    Fortunately, the Sindh and Balochistan governments have shown more resolve. Moreover, the military seems to be taking orders from somewhere other than the government and is forcibly shutting down possible infection hotspots. Checkpoints now dot cities across Pakistan, somewhat inhibiting the free flow of people and the viruses they carry. Whether this will suffice remains to be seen.

    Thanks to biological science — the foundation of which was laid by Charles Darwin — the coronavirus will eventually turn out to be a deadly but controllable affair. Its final worldwide death toll may run into many tens, or perhaps hundreds, of thousands. Still, compared to the toll exacted by pre-scientific era plagues, this will be small. Your life may well be saved by some yet to be invented drug or vaccine. All beneficiaries of modern medicine should surely forgive Darwin for his supposed transgressions.

    https://theprint.in/opinion/coronavi...darwin/395478/
    Really disappointed in Imran, an Oxford graduate who should know better. Guess he never read science.

  12. #12
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    What a joke of an article. It boggles the mind how this man is viewed as an intellectual.

    1. "Military is taking orders from somewhere other than govt". LOL
    2. "Newton's Law is fundamental of physics". Not really. It was debunked by the General theory of relativity.
    3. Compares Darwinian selection to a Law.
    4. A Law makes specific predictions. Darwinian selection describes phenomenon. It cannot be represented as an equation.
    5. The guy also happens to be stuck in:"evolution is random & so defeats cosmic purpose". Evolution proceeds through a careful pattern which we can see but can't predict

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Yeh janab apni dukaan chamka rahay hain..... May we ask if rejection of science is the reason we have corona in Pakistan then what is the reason for 300,000+ cases in the US?
    Too many fundo Christians.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Really disappointed in Imran, an Oxford graduate who should know better. Guess he never read science.
    Being an Ivy leaguer is not always the benchmark of being smart. Most if not all rich and influential kids end up going to these big named schools.

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    What a stupid thing to say! Is it Europes and the rest of the worlds debt too? I guess Darwin is very popular in Antarctica as there are no chorona cases there. Absurd statement.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazam View Post
    valid points made by Pervez.. religion has always taken precedence over science.. may be this crisis can teach people that Science is foremost.
    what irritates me is that Muslims were the first ones to embrace science and in fact their golden period consisted of some great discoveries in physics, Astronomy and Chemistry. Our Caliph system used to fund and protect scientists and their researches. Muslims were so good at scince and advanced that even the westerners were influenced by it when they first met Muslim civilization. Where did we go wrong?

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    Complete stupidity to say the least.
    Darwin's theory of evolution states that humans have evolved from apes.
    This theory is based on multiple assumptions such as homology and is based on a probabilistic framework.
    Even if true how does it help Pakistan at all.

  18. #18
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    Something I read online today:

    Did you know that the Persian scholar of medicine, Ibn Sina (980-1037) suspected that some diseases were spread by microorganisms? To prevent human-to-human contamination, he came up with the method of isolating people for 40 days. He called this method al-Arba'iniya ("the forty").
    Traders from Venice heard of his successful method and took this knowledge back to contemporary Italy. They called it "quarantena" ("the forty" in Italian). This is where the word "quarantine" comes from. The origin of the methods currently being used in much of the world to fight pandemics have their origins in the Islamic world.


    Mein inko rolaonga

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Really disappointed in Imran, an Oxford graduate who should know better. Guess he never read science.
    I assume IK was referring to evolution of man from apes, which is a half baked theory with no real proof of being correct.

    The article is laughable, Muslims were the pioneers in science and led the way in medicine.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I assume IK was referring to evolution of man from apes, which is a half baked theory with no real proof of being correct.
    Depends what you call real proof. There is a mountain of evidence supporting evolution including human evolution. We did not evolve from apes - that is a common misunderstanding. The apes and humans evolved from a common ancestor species.

    “Half-baked theories” are not theory in the scientific sense. Science is self-correcting as everything is peer-reviewed. Evolution would have been discarded by now like the Phlogiston Theory if it were “half-baked”, but more evidence keeps piling up.

    The article is laughable, Muslims were the pioneers in science and led the way in medicine.[/QUOTE]

    Between 800 and 1200 CE I agree but then their society stagnated. Liturgy became more important than discovery, but Europe went the other way and took over most of the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Depends what you call real proof. There is a mountain of evidence supporting evolution including human evolution. We did not evolve from apes - that is a common misunderstanding. The apes and humans evolved from a common ancestor species.

    ďHalf-baked theoriesĒ are not theory in the scientific sense. Science is self-correcting as everything is peer-reviewed. Evolution would have been discarded by now like the Phlogiston Theory if it were ďhalf-bakedĒ, but more evidence keeps piling up.

    The article is laughable, Muslims were the pioneers in science and led the way in medicine.

    Between 800 and 1200 CE I agree but then their society stagnated. Liturgy became more important than discovery, but Europe went the other way and took over most of the world.
    Very good post. I think every culture prides in their scientific past but there comes a time when you have to move on or get stuck in the rut.

    To be fair every culture has gone through that be it Indians ,Greeks,Romans,Persians back in the day to even Europe in recent times . Most if not all the innovation seems to happen in America now.

    surprisingly though most people take pride in their nations past or achievements. May be taking pride in the achievements of a religion as a whole is a different level.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Depends what you call real proof. There is a mountain of evidence supporting evolution including human evolution. We did not evolve from apes - that is a common misunderstanding. The apes and humans evolved from a common ancestor species.

    “Half-baked theories” are not theory in the scientific sense. Science is self-correcting as everything is peer-reviewed. Evolution would have been discarded by now like the Phlogiston Theory if it were “half-baked”, but more evidence keeps piling up.

    The article is laughable, Muslims were the pioneers in science and led the way in medicine.
    Between 800 and 1200 CE I agree but then their society stagnated. Liturgy became more important than discovery, but Europe went the other way and took over most of the world.[/QUOTE]

    Which anscestor and from which location?


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

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    This guy is the other extreme of the spectrum, just like the religious fundamentalists he believes this is some kind of punishment.

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    Evolution is a theory which is widely accepted. I don't think anyone can refute it. Islam also gonna accept it, Maybe Parvez is making theories himself about a religion.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoredFromLifeXi View Post
    Evolution is a theory which is widely accepted. I don't think anyone can refute it. Islam also gonna accept it, Maybe Parvez is making theories himself about a religion.
    Humans evolving from other animals is not a widely accepted theory.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  26. #26
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    i dont see the big deal, no one has to believe in anything.

    i know many muslims who have done medicine and their ways of reconciling evolution to their own belief system varies, it is what it is, antagonising religious people is a negative sum game.

    there's more than enough people to do the science, and there always will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Humans evolving from other animals is not a widely accepted theory.
    sorry. it is a widely accepted theory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I assume IK was referring to evolution of man from apes, which is a half baked theory with no real proof of being correct.

    The article is laughable, Muslims were the pioneers in science and led the way in medicine.
    yes 1000 years ago. societies have moved on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadeemp View Post
    sorry. it is a widely accepted theory.
    I fail to be associated with animals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    I fail to be associated with animals.
    it's not your choice. denying it is like saying earth is flat.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 7th April 2020 at 15:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Humans evolving from other animals is not a widely accepted theory.
    It is among scientists. Homo sapiens has been around for about 250,000 years. Homo neaderthalensis was around too but they appear to have gone extinct around 40,000 years ago. Before them were Homo erectus, and Australopithecus, looking gradually more ape like. There was also Gigantopithecus who was ten feet tall and weighed half a ten. All in the fossil record.

    Back further than that and our ancestors and the chimps split off from a common ancestor.
    Last edited by Robert; 7th April 2020 at 02:10.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    I fail to be associated with animals.
    We are all animals. Just smart ones with complex language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    It is among scientists. Homo sapiens has been around for about 250,000 years. Homo neaderthalensis was around too but they appear to have gone extinct around 40,000 years ago. Before them were Homo erectus, and Australopithecus, looking gradually more ape like. There was also Gigantopithecus who was ten feet tall and weighed half a ten. All in the fossil record.

    Back further than that and our ancestors and the chimps split off from a common ancestor.
    The bipedal gene is still up for debate as no real evidence of this has been in 'human' evolution. Every year new evidences are apprearing. Now its said Europe not Africa is the place this 'evolution' took place.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    We are all animals. Just smart ones with complex language.
    There are millions of species on the planet, but none are like humans. We are not like animals at all.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

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    humans evolving from monkeys and monkeys from worms and worms from minerials is actually an islamic idea from the 8-10th century, darwinism is quite different.

    Muslims just stopped believing in it because it became associated with atheism and we know our scholars and mullahs are among the worlds biggest fools.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    This guy is the other extreme of the spectrum, just like the religious fundamentalists he believes this is some kind of punishment.
    My thoughts exactly. When the whole world is having a hard time fighting the virus, it's the wrong time to show your superior scientific understanding. It's not going to make the people listen to you more and rethink their stance.

    Besides, average Pakistani might deny the theory of Evolution but they never denied the need for modern medicine.

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    Rejecting evolution doesn't mean you are suddenly anti-science. This is an inaccurate assumption.

    Just because a crazy old man called Charles Darwin claims something doesn't make it true.

    Here's one video showing scientists disagreeing with evolution theory:

    Last edited by sweep_shot; 7th April 2020 at 03:29.


    Bangladeshi Fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Yeh janab apni dukaan chamka rahay hain..... May we ask if rejection of science is the reason we have corona in Pakistan then what is the reason for 300,000+ cases in the US?
    Rejection of science.

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    I think it’s our overall approach to science that’s the problem. Most metric pass Pakistanis will tell you that moon has no gravity. And that’s all you need to know about our approach to science.

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    I don't understand the whole theory of evolution in full detail yet and only reading books on it can fill the gaps. I find this video to be thought provoking and the concepts explained make sense:



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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Rejecting evolution doesn't mean you are suddenly anti-science. This is an inaccurate assumption.

    Just because a crazy old man called Charles Darwin claims something doesn't make it true.

    Here's one video showing scientists disagreeing with evolution theory:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQgOjHsMEeE
    Bro, your video had zero content. They only express their skepticism and call for a thorough examination. It would have been better if there were some arguments presented for some food for thought.

    Here is another video on the subject I find to be thought provoking


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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Rejecting evolution doesn't mean you are suddenly anti-science. This is an inaccurate assumption.

    Just because a crazy old man called Charles Darwin claims something doesn't make it true.

    Here's one video showing scientists disagreeing with evolution theory:

    Shocking level of cognitive dissonance.


    Better luck next time

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Rejecting evolution doesn't mean you are suddenly anti-science. This is an inaccurate assumption.

    Just because a crazy old man called Charles Darwin claims something doesn't make it true.

    Here's one video showing scientists disagreeing with evolution theory:

    science discovery

    This is a hardcore christian institute, there not scientists there priests.

    Atleast know what your posting before posting it and accepting it blindly.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PetroDollars View Post
    science discovery

    This is a hardcore christian institute, there not scientists there priests.

    Atleast know what your posting before posting it and accepting it blindly.
    Oh are these the 'doctors' who get their 'doctorates' from Bible belt colleges in US who amongst them don't even have 12 peer reviewed articles compared to thousands from an average scientist? Ala Ken Ham and Kent Hovind who got their PhD's from Bible colleges, who are little bigger than a shack and who sell them for money and such people then have the audacity to call themselves doctors

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Rejecting evolution doesn't mean you are suddenly anti-science. This is an inaccurate assumption.

    Just because a crazy old man called Charles Darwin claims something doesn't make it true.

    Here's one video showing scientists disagreeing with evolution theory:

    i am sure they are the same people who don't believe in climate change

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    Quote Originally Posted by PetroDollars View Post
    science discovery

    This is a hardcore christian institute, there not scientists there priests.

    Atleast know what your posting before posting it and accepting it blindly.
    Yeah I recognized the guy @0:48. He is Frank Turek a Christian apologetic. I was surprised by the claim in the video that he has a PhD in Biochemistry. Couldn't find any evidence for this claim, whether on Wikipedia nor on his missionary website.

    On Wikipedia this is what's said about his views on Evolution:

    He is an advocate of intelligent design and a critic of macroevolution but believes that changes within species occur over time.
    A classic strategy by such people. I bet 99% of the people in that video have the same view.

    They split evolution in "microevolution" and "macroevolution". In simple terms, microevolution is the change within a species, like a mutation of a virus, since that happens over a small time period, it can be easily observed in a lab and hence only a fool would deny it. While with macroevolution, they refer to changes above the level of species. This could be like two new species evolving from a single common ancestor over time. But since this is a long scale process requiring millions of years of evolution, it can't be easily observed in a lab. Therfore these intellectually dishonest people pretend to find fault in it. When in reality both micro- and macroevolution follow the same underlying principle of Evolution, just on a different time scale.

    Clearly this guy's expertise is preaching the Christian faith. I found this video on his site:



    Some phony online course for $300. According to them there seems to be some conspiracy going on in the American universities, which turn God believing Christians into atheists. These people are not much different than molvis in Pakistan.

    I don't know if I can trust this guy to examine scientific findings in an unbiased way. After all Christian church was famously reluctant to accept Galileo's findings, when he presented that contrary to Bible, the Earth was not flat.

    The ideas prestend in the theory of evolution clearly contradict the story of Genesis in the Bible, at least how Christians understood the story for 2000 years. Hence, the Christian apologetics come up with all sort of goofy claims, which are then also taken as a source of inspiration by Islamic scholars, when they attempt to provide arguments against evolution. On this matter both, normally opposing groups, seem to be friends.

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    Religion/religious ppl have played major part in spreading the virus thru out the world. In fact they were called 'Super Spreaders'


    Shincheonji church in S Korea,
    A sikh gurudwara head (who returned abroad) went on party with a village,
    Tablighi jamat guys in malaysia, india & pakistan was etc,.


    When was china was suffering from this virus few muslim maulvis/mullahs in iran, india, pakistan were saying 'Corona is a punishment from allah to china for troubling uighur muslims'

    Now when virus started spreading in muslim countries they say 'Corona is a test from allah & we have to pass this test'

    This is the level of thinking we have in asia
    Last edited by IndianHero; 7th April 2020 at 08:14.

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    If Hoodboy believes in Darwin's Natural Selection, then the best way to handle this virus should be through
    "Survival of the fittest". He should advocate for herd immunity, and those who are to weak to survive, well evolution passed them by.

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    @sweep_shot bro you are telling Darwin as crazy old man. I know you don't understand things/science but please have respect for his work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoredFromLifeXi View Post
    @sweep_shot bro you are telling Darwin as crazy old man. I know you don't understand things/science but please have respect for his work.
    I have no respect for scam artist Darwin. This crazy old man has scammed the whole world.

    I love science but evolution theory is complete horseshit.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    If Hoodboy believes in Darwin's Natural Selection, then the best way to handle this virus should be through
    "Survival of the fittest". He should advocate for herd immunity, and those who are to weak to survive, well evolution passed them by.
    You know that's kinda what they're doing right?
    That's why there's quarantine so hospitals don't get overwhelmed and when in hospital doctors are saying they are struggling in helping everyone so they will give preference to younger people

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    You know that's kinda what they're doing right?
    That's why there's quarantine so hospitals don't get overwhelmed and when in hospital doctors are saying they are struggling in helping everyone so they will give preference to younger people
    In true Survival of the fittest we would not need any lockdown, or quarantine, if you get the virus you should be able to fight back, and if not well too bad. I dont support this, but if we go by Darwin this should be the way to go.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    I have no respect for scam artist Darwin. This crazy old man has scammed the whole world.

    I love science but evolution theory is complete horseshit.
    You might love science but you clearly have not understood science any better than Imran.

    Evolution theory is a most elegant explanation for the changing plant and animal forms over geological time.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    In true Survival of the fittest we would not need any lockdown, or quarantine, if you get the virus you should be able to fight back, and if not well too bad. I dont support this, but if we go by Darwin this should be the way to go.
    You might as well say that if we go by Newton we should all jump off cliffs and if we go by Faraday we should all get electrocuted!

    Medicine improves our chances in the survival of the fittest.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    There are millions of species on the planet, but none are like humans. We are not like animals at all.
    And none are like amoebas and none are like spiders and none are like orcas. But all are animals. We are merely clever monkeys with complex language and opposable thumbs so we can use tools. The evolution of opposable thumbs and a larger brain case was what really kickstarted us 400k years ago.

    There is an hypothesis that our numbers bottlenecked about 75,000 years ago and we nearly went extinct as did the dinosaurs and the terror birds and sabre-toothed cats, but our numbers recovered.

    Going back far earlier, there is evidence that Jupiter began spiralling in toward the Sun in which case the Earth would have been torn apart before life appeared, but Saturn came into being and stabilised Jupiterís orbit.

    I love reading all this stuff. Nature is so wonderful.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetroDollars View Post
    humans evolving from monkeys and monkeys from worms and worms from minerials is actually an islamic idea from the 8-10th century, darwinism is quite different.

    Muslims just stopped believing in it because it became associated with atheism and we know our scholars and mullahs are among the worlds biggest fools.
    Fascinating! The Muslim scientists of that time were brilliant in so many fields.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    what irritates me is that Muslims were the first ones to embrace science and in fact their golden period consisted of some great discoveries in physics, Astronomy and Chemistry. Our Caliph system used to fund and protect scientists and their researches. Muslims were so good at scince and advanced that even the westerners were influenced by it when they first met Muslim civilization. Where did we go wrong?
    Mongol invasion and crusades forced us to have narrower a world view. This is one reason among many.

    Good thing is that Europeans continued working from where Muslim scientists left off and as a result humanity benefited from it.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    Mongol invasion and crusades forced us to have narrower a world view. This is one reason among many.

    Good thing is that Europeans continued working from where Muslim scientists left off and as a result humanity benefited from it.
    My understanding is that there was a cultural shift so that being pious and learning scripture by rote because more important than intellectual discovery.

    And as you say, the Mongol invasions destroyed the city state libraries and much science was lost.

    Just as the fire at Alexandria set back Greco-Roman civilisation and also destroyed Christian scripture, which changed the evolution of that faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Something I read online today:
    He called this method al-Arba'iniya ("the forty").
    Which apparently evolved into ridiculous rituals like the 'Chaleeswan' for the Muslims. While Europe became more enlightened after the plague, and made progress in the field of science, we became more dogmatic and entrenched in religion and developed a fixed mind set.


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    It's useless to continue denying evolution,it's like claiming that the Earth is flat or that climate change isn't real.

    That being said, it's a ridiculous claim from Hoodhboy given that the ENTIRE world, including secular, first-world countries are suffering from the virus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    I have no respect for scam artist Darwin. This crazy old man has scammed the whole world.

    I love science but evolution theory is complete horseshit.
    the only reason you don't believe in it is because it contradicts your religious beliefs. same reason some christians don't believe how old the world is because to them it can't be more than 5000!years old. the belief in darwin's theory is accepted by the scientific community. nobody argues about it anymore. like nobody argues about the shape of the earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    In true Survival of the fittest we would not need any lockdown, or quarantine, if you get the virus you should be able to fight back, and if not well too bad. I dont support this, but if we go by Darwin this should be the way to go.
    That's not how it works. The clock of evolution is very slow. Most of the species go extinct. Those who survive go through a very long and slow process of evolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    If Hoodboy believes in Darwin's Natural Selection, then the best way to handle this virus should be through
    "Survival of the fittest". He should advocate for herd immunity, and those who are to weak to survive, well evolution passed them by.
    Hoodhboy's article wasn't really about Darwin or evolution, it was more of a pants down mooning piece aimed at religion in general, and more specifically Pakistan as it is officially Islamic, which he doesn't like at all.

    I don't really have a problem with people who have this point of view, but it is in poor taste to be linking Coronavirus as some sort of divine punishment for Muslims, and somewhat ironic given who the article is aimed at.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Hoodhboy's article wasn't really about Darwin or evolution, it was more of a pants down mooning piece aimed at religion in general, and more specifically Pakistan as it is officially Islamic, which he doesn't like at all.

    I don't really have a problem with people who have this point of view, but it is in poor taste to be linking Coronavirus as some sort of divine punishment for Muslims, and somewhat ironic given who the article is aimed at.
    He also named Modi, the Pope and Iran

    Sensible article imo, he also congratulated Saudi which is a bit of a weird step for most Pakistani intellectuals


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    Quote Originally Posted by chacha kashmiri View Post
    He also named Modi, the Pope and Iran

    Sensible article imo, he also congratulated Saudi which is a bit of a weird step for most Pakistani intellectuals
    He gets hate from people for some reason not all of it is justifiable

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    So a virus is affecting almost all the countries in the World yet it is Pakistan who is paying the price for turning a blind eye towards science?


    Whenever Nawaz wins, he divides PMLN equally. He keeps PM for himself and gives L N to the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    And none are like amoebas and none are like spiders and none are like orcas. But all are animals. We are merely clever monkeys with complex language and opposable thumbs so we can use tools. The evolution of opposable thumbs and a larger brain case was what really kickstarted us 400k years ago.

    There is an hypothesis that our numbers bottlenecked about 75,000 years ago and we nearly went extinct as did the dinosaurs and the terror birds and sabre-toothed cats, but our numbers recovered.

    Going back far earlier, there is evidence that Jupiter began spiralling in toward the Sun in which case the Earth would have been torn apart before life appeared, but Saturn came into being and stabilised Jupiter’s orbit.

    I love reading all this stuff. Nature is so wonderful.
    I wasnt talking from a physical pov. Never Mind Robert, we will wait to see new evidence , either way it discount the idea of a powerful God. He can do what he likes at any time, land new species or send souls into already living creatures.

    On topic, athiests using this virus to further their propaganda is no different to religous extremists using incidents to further their own extremisim.


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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I wasnt talking from a physical pov. Never Mind Robert, we will wait to see new evidence , either way it discount the idea of a powerful God. He can do what he likes at any time, land new species or send souls into already living creatures.

    On topic, athiests using this virus to further their propaganda is no different to religous extremists using incidents to further their own extremisim.
    Can you give an example on how atheists are using the corona to further their agenda

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    Quote Originally Posted by chacha kashmiri View Post
    He also named Modi, the Pope and Iran

    Sensible article imo, he also congratulated Saudi which is a bit of a weird step for most Pakistani intellectuals
    Yes, which is why I said it was more of a pants down, mooning piece aimed at religion in general, his emphasis on Pakistan was more to do with him being Pakistani himself.

    But again, Covid-19 wasn't sent by some avenging atheist angel to punish Pakistan or the Pope, the virus doesn't give a toss what your religion is. It will just as happily infect an atheist as a believer, so I don't see any point in disbeliever grandstanding here.


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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I wasnt talking from a physical pov. Never Mind Robert, we will wait to see new evidence , either way it discount the idea of a powerful God. He can do what he likes at any time, land new species or send souls into already living creatures.

    On topic, athiests using this virus to further their propaganda is no different to religous extremists using incidents to further their own extremisim.
    Evolution doesn't discount God. It suggests that he is a bit more remote than religious people might like, though. Maybe he kicked off evolution 3.5 billion years ago and watched so see what would happen. Sentient life might have evolved up from the velociraptors but they all died after the asteroid strike in Yucatan, and we evolved up instead. If we wipe ourselves out with nukes, maybe some other sentient life will emerge in our place a few million years hence. And they will find our fossil records and the nuke craters, and laugh at us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Yes, which is why I said it was more of a pants down, mooning piece aimed at religion in general, his emphasis on Pakistan was more to do with him being Pakistani himself.

    But again, Covid-19 wasn't sent by some avenging atheist angel to punish Pakistan or the Pope, the virus doesn't give a toss what your religion is. It will just as happily infect an atheist as a believer, so I don't see any point in disbeliever grandstanding here.

    https://www.subboorahmad.com/post/de...debt-to-darwin

    That's the response from suboor ahmed

    I think most the criticism is levelled because e of his previous outlandish behaviour and not on the basis of this article where he'd basically just talking about mutations of COV


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I wasnt talking from a physical pov. Never Mind Robert, we will wait to see new evidence , either way it discount the idea of a powerful God. He can do what he likes at any time, land new species or send souls into already living creatures.

    On topic, athiests using this virus to further their propaganda is no different to religous extremists using incidents to further their own extremisim.
    To me, the theory of Evolution in no way discounts the idea of a God and the insecurity about it shouldn't hinder the understanding of the theory.

    As someone who is open to the idea of a "God", I find the principles behind the theory of Evolution to be far more poetic and beautiful than the idea of "intelligent design". As our understanding of the world around us has increased, we have discovered countless laws behind countless natural phenomena.

    For example, in ancient times humans would believe that a God of thunder himself is throwing lightening on those he is displeased with. We now know there are certain well-defined physical processes behind how thunderstorms develop and no matter where on Earth the same physical processes are at play and create a strom. It's never a random occurrence out of nowhere, as if some great being had suddenly willed for there to be a strom.

    Humans used to believe that the Sun was carried by thousands of angels or god-like creatures and moved from East to West. Now we know that Earth is rotating around the Sun due to the gravitational forces. There is no one actively forcing the movement to happen. On top of that, we are now able to send our own Satellites into space and have them orbit the earth due to our understanding of the laws behind it.

    We know that new stars and Galaxies don't randomly pop up in to existence, rather there is principle behind it. A baby doesn't suddenly appear in the mother's womb, there is a chain of biological process behind it.

    In the same way, theory of Evolution explains the biological processes of how so many different species came into existence and became extinct on Earth. It's either a natural science principle, just like so many other phenomena on earth, or it's the belief that millions of different species popped up in a heartbeat because someone willed it. For me it's far more beautiful to think of a creator setting these principles in place and letting things unfold just like so many other countless processes in the nature.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirris View Post
    To me, the theory of Evolution in no way discounts the idea of a God and the insecurity about it shouldn't hinder the understanding of the theory.

    As someone who is open to the idea of a "God", I find the principles behind the theory of Evolution to be far more poetic and beautiful than the idea of "intelligent design". As our understanding of the world around us has increased, we have discovered countless laws behind countless natural phenomena.

    For example, in ancient times humans would believe that a God of thunder himself is throwing lightening on those he is displeased with. We now know there are certain well-defined physical processes behind how thunderstorms develop and no matter where on Earth the same physical processes are at play and create a strom. It's never a random occurrence out of nowhere, as if some great being had suddenly willed for there to be a strom.

    Humans used to believe that the Sun was carried by thousands of angels or god-like creatures and moved from East to West. Now we know that Earth is rotating around the Sun due to the gravitational forces. There is no one actively forcing the movement to happen. On top of that, we are now able to send our own Satellites into space and have them orbit the earth due to our understanding of the laws behind it.

    We know that new stars and Galaxies don't randomly pop up in to existence, rather there is principle behind it. A baby doesn't suddenly appear in the mother's womb, there is a chain of biological process behind it.

    In the same way, theory of Evolution explains the biological processes of how so many different species came into existence and became extinct on Earth. It's either a natural science principle, just like so many other phenomena on earth, or it's the belief that millions of different species popped up in a heartbeat because someone willed it. For me it's far more beautiful to think of a creator setting these principles in place and letting things unfold just like so many other countless processes in the nature.
    Great post bro.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirris View Post
    To me, the theory of Evolution in no way discounts the idea of a God and the insecurity about it shouldn't hinder the understanding of the theory.

    As someone who is open to the idea of a "God", I find the principles behind the theory of Evolution to be far more poetic and beautiful than the idea of "intelligent design". As our understanding of the world around us has increased, we have discovered countless laws behind countless natural phenomena.

    For example, in ancient times humans would believe that a God of thunder himself is throwing lightening on those he is displeased with. We now know there are certain well-defined physical processes behind how thunderstorms develop and no matter where on Earth the same physical processes are at play and create a strom. It's never a random occurrence out of nowhere, as if some great being had suddenly willed for there to be a strom.

    Humans used to believe that the Sun was carried by thousands of angels or god-like creatures and moved from East to West. Now we know that Earth is rotating around the Sun due to the gravitational forces. There is no one actively forcing the movement to happen. On top of that, we are now able to send our own Satellites into space and have them orbit the earth due to our understanding of the laws behind it.

    We know that new stars and Galaxies don't randomly pop up in to existence, rather there is principle behind it. A baby doesn't suddenly appear in the mother's womb, there is a chain of biological process behind it.

    In the same way, theory of Evolution explains the biological processes of how so many different species came into existence and became extinct on Earth. It's either a natural science principle, just like so many other phenomena on earth, or it's the belief that millions of different species popped up in a heartbeat because someone willed it. For me it's far more beautiful to think of a creator setting these principles in place and letting things unfold just like so many other countless processes in the nature.
    so do you believe in adam and eve story? do you believe how eve was made from the rib? do you believe the world is 5000 years old ( that's if u are christian). or are you not into organized religion and just believe in a higher power.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirris View Post
    To me, the theory of Evolution in no way discounts the idea of a God and the insecurity about it shouldn't hinder the understanding of the theory.

    As someone who is open to the idea of a "God", I find the principles behind the theory of Evolution to be far more poetic and beautiful than the idea of "intelligent design". As our understanding of the world around us has increased, we have discovered countless laws behind countless natural phenomena.

    For example, in ancient times humans would believe that a God of thunder himself is throwing lightening on those he is displeased with. We now know there are certain well-defined physical processes behind how thunderstorms develop and no matter where on Earth the same physical processes are at play and create a strom. It's never a random occurrence out of nowhere, as if some great being had suddenly willed for there to be a strom.

    Humans used to believe that the Sun was carried by thousands of angels or god-like creatures and moved from East to West. Now we know that Earth is rotating around the Sun due to the gravitational forces. There is no one actively forcing the movement to happen. On top of that, we are now able to send our own Satellites into space and have them orbit the earth due to our understanding of the laws behind it.

    We know that new stars and Galaxies don't randomly pop up in to existence, rather there is principle behind it. A baby doesn't suddenly appear in the mother's womb, there is a chain of biological process behind it.

    In the same way, theory of Evolution explains the biological processes of how so many different species came into existence and became extinct on Earth. It's either a natural science principle, just like so many other phenomena on earth, or it's the belief that millions of different species popped up in a heartbeat because someone willed it. For me it's far more beautiful to think of a creator setting these principles in place and letting things unfold just like so many other countless processes in the nature.
    Beautifully put!

  76. #76
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    Pervez is the only beacon of hope in this land of extremism and illiteracy. May you live long, Dr Sahab!

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Pervez is the only beacon of hope in this land of extremism and illiteracy. May you live long, Dr Sahab!
    Well maybe he should actually start making some contributions to science instead. Isnít that his area of expertise?

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamM97 View Post
    Well maybe he should actually start making some contributions to science instead. Isnít that his area of expertise?
    Well maybe if you had done some research, you would know he has contributed a lot to science. Thanks!

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Well maybe if you had done some research, you would know he has contributed a lot to science. Thanks!
    Save me the time, post some links confirming what he has achieved in the field of Science. Surely if he;'s so smart he should be spending his time finding a cure rather than attacking religion day after day?


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Well maybe if you had done some research, you would know he has contributed a lot to science. Thanks!
    If Iím not wrong, I believe the last time he published a paper on science was in 2006. Iím more than happy to be proven wrong though.

    Not saying that heís wrong about ignorance in Pakistan, but shouldnít he focus more on his area of expertise instead?


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