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21st May 2020, 03:30 #1
Pakistan's road to the final of the 2023 World Cup in India
I see that some of us have started putting forward squad names for WC 23. I think this good that we are already looking ahead of this very important tournament.
But just as much as personnel is important, I think the right strategy will help play a key role as in how well we actually do. We stumbled into the last WC and preparations for WC 15 were a disaster.
We need to start preparing now so that when it comes to the start of the tournament, we're ready to fire. As things evolve and we get closer, we'll continue to update this thread.
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21st May 2020, 05:05 #2
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Key factors
— two valuable spinners
— good wicket keeper
— reliable finisher
— reverse swing bowlers
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21st May 2020, 06:14 #3
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Very good points, I think we need only one of Shadab/Imaad and an attacking spinner to compliment them. I think as a pair they won’t be able to do much on those Indian pitches especially against a team like India. They would happily play them around for ones and twos and the odd boundary, we need someone who can break a partnership and can attack the new batsman. In terms of a wicket keeper, our main issue is that all of the potential candidates do not have additional gears so it’s either we play them at 4 like a Rizwan or find someone new i.e Mohammad Haris but whoever it is, they need to be fast tracked and given games in order to see what they are capable of. Our major mistake over the last few world cups is we start the planning too late, we lose a few ODIs and revert back to the old players. I think they should find a nucleus of say 21 players and rotate them to see how they fare in different situations. This is something all the major teams do and this tends to work. We do not have a reliable finisher but I think they should look to at the domestic scene so for example if Misbah-ul-Haq looks at few players, he should speak to the coaches of that domestic team so they can play that player every game even in higher positions so he gets experience. We have talented players but our lack of planning is a big hindrance on our performance, I hope what I said made sense...
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21st May 2020, 07:53 #4
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Agree add to that - we have to find out the best combination for the middle order.
Most probably Shoaib Malik and Hafeez won’t play the WC and even if they do they won’t perform considering their age...
So we have to find proper middle-order bats and groom them properly.
Ideally Saif Badar, Abdullah Shafique, and Rohail Nazir should be groomed so that we have a stable middle-order which is capable of scoring 290+ on spinning pitches.
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21st May 2020, 08:58 #5
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21st May 2020, 09:19 #6
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21st May 2020, 09:39 #7
Pakistan will try to construct a team around Babar Azam and Shaheen Shah Afridi (our most promising players).
Frankly, I don't see any other "world class" player in our current ODI squad. Maybe Amir, but let's see how he wants to end his cricketing career. Will he focus on Pakistan LOIs or become a T20s league mercenary?
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21st May 2020, 12:05 #8
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The WC is meant for Kohli to win farewell WC on home soil
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21st May 2020, 12:25 #9
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21st May 2020, 12:28 #10
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Actually more for Hitman and Babar Azam
Remember he missed out on CWC11 selection even. Virat was part of the winning team in 2011 he still has one world cup to show which is equal or more than most greats except for some lucky Aussies or Windiess cricketers.
2023 is for Hitman and Babar tovhave a world cup trophy in their resume.
Bit yea for Virata its a matter of being even considered a rival to Tendulkar
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21st May 2020, 12:29 #11
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Since it is in India, Babar, Hitman, Kohli should all target at least 600 runs.
Will be interesting to see if 700 run barrier can finally be breached. In IPL I think Warner has already hit more runs within 11 games?
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21st May 2020, 13:13 #12
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Virat hasnt stamped his name on any WC so far so yes he needs one to really cement his legacy. He is THE batsman of this generation all formats combined and his 2011 exploits were minimal.
For eg in ODIs, the 1999 WC and the SA knocks really cemented Steve Waugh's legacy as a world champ eventhough he had won it all the way back in 1987 first.
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21st May 2020, 13:50 #13
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Thanks for your appreciation bro. I think we can agree on him being all formats number 1 batsman of the generation but most Indians will definitely put Tendulkar much ahead at this point and you are right world cup no show is one of the major reasons for it.
Wishing good luck to Babar Azam also.
Although I personally look forward to see Rohit Sharma having a good WC in 2023. If he hits 3 more centuries in 2023 and bosses a 500-600 run tournament would you put him over Kohli in ODIs?Last edited by Bhaijaan; 21st May 2020 at 13:52.
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21st May 2020, 14:06 #14
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tbh I dont put him very far behind Kohli right now anyway
He already has a better WC record in comparison to Kohli. Rohit averages 65 while Kohli is at 46.
and if you just look at knockouts it becomes embarrassing for Kohli.
Obv Kohli has gone another level in bilaterals and is breaking new grounds which pushes him ahead. But its not like Rohit has not been bossing bilaterals and only showing up in ICC tournaments. Since his switch to an opener (became permanent around 2012-13) he has been averaging ~60 too. Earlier he was played down the order
if Kohli has another stinker in 2023 and Rohit is solid again then clearly there has to be a conversation of them being seen as equals.
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21st May 2020, 14:24 #15
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21st May 2020, 14:32 #16
Quality spinner, opening batsman and WK batsman. There is no doubt that we will be a world class team
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21st May 2020, 14:41 #17
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virat will reign supreme. Legend. ATG. best ever. He will prove it in 2023.
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21st May 2020, 15:34 #18
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21st May 2020, 17:34 #19
Pak made the semis the last time it was in the sub continent. 2011.
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21st May 2020, 18:20 #20
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21st May 2020, 19:20 #21
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22nd May 2020, 07:15 #22
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22nd May 2020, 09:32 #23
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23rd May 2020, 02:52 #24
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23rd May 2020, 03:36 #25
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23rd May 2020, 04:33 #26
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23rd May 2020, 04:34 #27
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Haider Ali has played opener at the u19 level. In t20's a player can just go out in the middle and just smack everything but in Odi aplayer needs to adapt first. Another thing is that you do not hinder around with a batters position. That is because he has played his whole life as a opener ,changing his batting position will not let him perform to his potential. If I was Misbah and he wants Haider ali is the middle oder position, I would do is bring him 1 down and have Babar open but I wouldnt even do that. Babar has been performing exceptional. This move would probably have Babar not perform as exceptional as he has as 1 down batsman. I would have Haider Ali as a opener.
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23rd May 2020, 04:44 #28
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23rd May 2020, 09:25 #29
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@shamaan
My brother, Haider Ali is an attacking batsman who like to attack straight away. He is not a leg side hack or a off side hack. He can hit all over the ground. If you look at PSL this yr, Haider Ali was attacking from ball one. Ahmed shehzad on the hand takes his time. Haider Ali can give you quick starts. I'm not saying he only hits. He knows how to rotate strike and hit the bad balls. Pakistan will need to be patient with him as a opener.
If you look at I believe when Haider Ali played against Multan in one of the matchups, Peshawar Zalmi had him come as a middle order batsman and he struggled. Dont get me wrong he would probably still do good but I believe if they want to get the full potential out of him then they should have him come as a opener.
Let me give you an example. Babar is a good 1 down batsman for Pakistan. Stats back that claim too. Now Babar can probably play 2 or 3 down too but he wont be as effective as he is as a 1 down batsman.
@shamaan
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23rd May 2020, 21:58 #30
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I agree with you he can hit all over the ground .we all know pakistan is impatience espically the fans.but same can be said when Haider came in at number 5 against lohare and that was his best ininings.i dont think he batted opening in any of the t20 matches.
So would you say t20s odis both opening.
And if given a chance what about tests bro
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24th May 2020, 00:22 #31
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@shamaan
Your right that he came at number 5 and that was his best innings. But if you look at the score card Zalmi's top 3 got out quickly. The top three in total faced only 14 balls. So he basically came in the crease quickly as one down batsman. Also all other games that Haider Ali played, he came at the crease early and batted like an opener and faced the opening bowlers.
@shamaan Yes for t20 and Odi I would have him opener. For test it's too early to say where he can bat.
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24th May 2020, 00:24 #32
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Last edited by Thunderbolt14; 24th May 2020 at 00:25.
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24th May 2020, 04:33 #33
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It's TRUE he did come in early but he stil played at number 5 were if you loose wickets he can take a few balls like he did against lohare then explode.if you look at when they played Karachi he played at 1 down and he got bowled becouse opening in international is really tough.
So in t20s u would play babar and haider
And in odis you would play haider and who ever else
What I am is let him bat in the middle for odis and at number 3 in t20s or number 4
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24th May 2020, 04:37 #34
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But the mindset changes then you loose wickets upfront and when you come in you no you can get your eye in then smash it were opening your mindset is to hit everything out of the park.
T20s he can bat at number 3 or 4
In odis let him bat in the middle but if he did bat opening I wouldnt mind but I prefer in the middle
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24th May 2020, 07:08 #35
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24th May 2020, 07:10 #36
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24th May 2020, 10:16 #37
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@shamaan
My brother you cant just look st one game and assume that he cant play as a opener or one down. How about the other games when he played one down, he did good and performed. Not every game Pakistan's top three will lose their wickets early. What if they perform and haider ali comes in the last five. He would struggle because he is not just a power hitter and he would be in too much pressure. As my brother @Thunderbolt14 mentioned that he prefers to play opener and if not that then one down. In many interviews he has said that. In T20 he can come one down, but in odi he should come opener. With any youngster u should always let them play the position they played throughout their career so far.
@shamaan
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24th May 2020, 15:26 #38
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24th May 2020, 15:28 #39
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24th May 2020, 15:35 #40
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I didnt say he cant play at the 1 down position. I am saying he should bat in number 3 or 4 in t20s in odis 4.so the management at fault for not opening with him or playing him 1 down in all matches and bantom is much better oppening ?why did they play some 1 down some lower?
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24th May 2020, 22:12 #41
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24th May 2020, 23:11 #42
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I better not see another one dimensional player like Asif Ali get selected for the WC. His one dimension wasn't even that good to begin with.
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16th December 2020, 11:18 #43
The International Cricket Council (ICC) has today announced the 20 rescheduled series in the pathway to the ICC Men’s Cricket World Cup 2023 in India and the dates for the Men’s Cricket World Cup Qualifier.
All COVID-19 affected series which were postponed in 2020 have been rescheduled in a new look calendar extending to 2023, with the ICC Men’s Cricket World Cup Qualifier confirmed to take place in Zimbabwe between 18 June and 9 July 2023.
The Men’s Cricket World Cup League 2 One Day Internationals (ODI) will return on 19 March 2021 when Oman host USA and Nepal in the sixth series of League 2. Six ODIs will be played in the series with Oman currently sitting top of the table on 16 points with the United States four points behind in the standings. There will be 96 ODIs played across the 14 series that are scheduled to be played in 2021 and 2022 respectively and the remaining two in early 2023.
The Men’s CWC Challenge League A will return between 15 and 28 August 2021 when Canada will host Denmark, Malaysia, Qatar, Singapore and Vanuatu where 15 matches will be played in the second of the three Challenge League A events. Canada lead Singapore on net-run-rate with both teams on eight points in the standings.
Challenge League B will return between 1 and 14 September 2021 with Jersey hosting Bermuda, Hong Kong, Italy, Kenya and Uganda competing in 15 matches. Uganda sit top of the standings with 10 points, followed by Hong Kong with seven. The final Challenge League B event has been scheduled for February 2022 and A for September 2022, with 60 List-A matches due to be played.
After the 21 tri-series in League 2 have been completed the top three teams will confirm their place in the ICC Men’s Cricket World Cup Qualifier 2023. The bottom four teams will drop into the Men’s Cricket World Cup Qualifier Play-Off 2023 – which is a repechage event to the Global Qualifier – and will be joined by the winner of Challenge League A and B. The top two teams from the Play-Off - which has also been rescheduled to 2023 - will keep their hopes alive of participating in India 2023, by qualifying for the Cricket World Cup Qualifier 2023.
The two leagues will run simultaneously with the Men’s Cricket World Cup Super League which started in July 2020. Men’s Cricket World Cup 2023 hosts India and the other top seven Super League teams will qualify automatically for the pinnacle event. The bottom five teams from the Super League will play in the 2023 Cricket World Cup Qualifier, joining the best three teams from League 2.
ICC Head of Events, Chris Tetley said: “When we rescheduled the ICC Men’s Cricket World Cup 2023 to October and November 2023 it enabled us to extend the window for qualification events to take place and thereby ensure we maximise the opportunity for qualification to be decided on the field of play. We have worked very closely with Members and stakeholders to reschedule 96 ODIs and 60 List-A matches and will continue to maintain the safety of participants in our events as our highest priority.”
All events are subject to COVID-19 arrangements if required at that time.
Last edited by MenInG; 16th December 2020 at 11:21.
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16th December 2020, 22:07 #44
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8th June 2022, 23:15 #45
We're currently 10th in the Super League in which only the top 8 teams qualify including India.
If we don't make the cut, then we battle it out with another 9 teams for the remaining two places as it is a 10 team WC. This will be the bottom 5 teams from the Super League, top 3 teams from League 2 and 2 teams from the qualifier play offs.
Don't know about you, but I think we're in a precarious position being outside the cut line.
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8th June 2022, 23:49 #46
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The general make up of this batting line up really worries me . . It's almost as though we're done after Babar . . I don't like Rizwan at 4 in ODIs . . Number 4 is a crucial position . . Number 4 batter more or less determines the pace of the innings from 20th over onwards . . and after Rizwan we just have all rounders who have shown no evidence that they can rebuild an innings/can pace an innings if Pak is 80/3 at the 18th over mark (which is absolutely a regular scenario) . .
We need another proper batter at number 4 . . role that Harris Sohail played for a while . . If Abdullah Shafiq is that batsman, then get him in now . . World Cup is only 1 year away, we don't tend to play many ODIs (completely de prioritized them since 2019) and our planning as always looks completely off!!
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8th June 2022, 23:56 #47
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9th June 2022, 04:09 #48
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9th June 2022, 06:23 #49
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9th June 2022, 07:48 #50
A road to WC in India means getting visas for players as well. Given the current situation in India and sentiment against Pakistan in general you never know, no visas or delay in visa process can put dent into the plans.
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15th November 2022, 16:47 #51
I think we'll still go.
Let's bring it home boys!
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15th November 2022, 16:51 #52
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15th November 2022, 19:51 #53
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15th November 2022, 20:05 #54
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For world cup 2023
Shaan Masood
M.haris
Babar Azam
Abdullah shafiq
Tayyab tahir
Qasim akram
Shahdab
Zafar gouhar
Shaheen
Hassan Ali
Naseem
Reserves
Rizwan
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15th November 2022, 20:11 #55
Going forward we need to build the squad around
Muhammed harris
Shadab khan
M wasim
Harris rauf
Naseem shah
Shaheen afridi
Maybe retain shan masood and no other 30+ player should be involved
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15th November 2022, 20:16 #56
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This is an important tournament. A lot of Pakistani players are at their absolute peak at the moment therefore its pivotal that they win Pakistan a tournament before their peak starts dipping.
Its important for PCB to understand combinations and core players which are absolutely must in this tournament.
I would say the core of Pakistan team is as follows:
1. Babar
2. Rizwan
3. Shadab
4. Shaheen
The other set of players are the ones with enough experience under their belt and they have shown over the course of their career that they are international class hence there are slightly high expectations from the following group as well.
1. Imam
2. Fakhar
3. Haris Rauf
4. Nawaz
5. Faheem Ashraf
The next set of players that PCB needs to identify and potentially pick for this world cup are young players that would be the next set of core long-term for Pakistan.
1. Naseem
2. Mohammad Haris
3. Qasim Akram
4. Hasnain (potentially)
The rest of the squad is made up from impact players who on their day can potentially raise their game.
1. Mohammad Wasim
2. Usman Qadir
3. Haider Ali
Overall the PCB should work with the core and not tinker much in here. We have got good players who has been with the team now for sometime so its best they are empowered and motivated for the upcoming world cup.
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15th November 2022, 20:25 #57
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15th November 2022, 20:28 #58
Imran Farhat
Imran Nazir
Mohammad Hafeez
Shoaib Malik
Fawad Alarm
Kamran Akmal
Saeed Ajmal
Haris Rauf
Naseem Shah
Shaheen
Dahani
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15th November 2022, 20:38 #59
Need to find spinners and batsmen who can play spin well on a war footing.
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15th November 2022, 20:43 #60
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Should they change it to 40 overs?
Many at times, the days are short in Oct/Nov in the extra polluted Indian atmosphere that is too dusty and foggy. And the day games run into bad light issues.
Plus after watching T20, 50 overs now seem long and boring. And in all honesty, we don't seem to have any batsman who has the patience, temperament and technique to play a long and solid innings in an effort to cope with 50 overs. May be Babar? But then who else? Chacha Ifti? Muhammd Harris? Shan Masood? Fakhar Zaman? Haider Ali? Nawaz? Shadab? They are all hit or a miss (mostly miss) type T20 batters.
And for prep wise, I think what we truly need to work on is getting their brains lit up, so that they are proactive and stay on super alert to accurately read the match awareness.
We also seem to have a non-existing ability to read the pitch. We simply react to it after playing half of the innings. Need someone who can accurately read the pitch and help plan the game accordingly.
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15th November 2022, 20:59 #61
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15th November 2022, 21:04 #62
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Pakistani is strong contender for 2023 Wc,You can place them in top 3 favourite for this Wc, Babar Is far better batsman in odi plus they have best pace bowling unit, Two crucial spinning allrounder for these condition .
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15th November 2022, 21:31 #63
You can experiment with Saim Ayub in the opening slot as well. Saim to open with FZ to see if we can score a 100 in the first 10-15 overs. Once you have a good start, then lord Bobby can finish the innings on a high. Set your template from now on and reap the rewards in the World Cup. But knowing Pakistan’s selection policy, I highly doubt they’ll experiment with the tried and tested top 3 of FZ, Imam and Bobby.
My 15
Fakhar
Saim
Babar
Shan
Rizwan
Iftikhar
Nawaz
Shahdab
Rauf
Shaheen
Naseem
Qasim/Imam
Haris
Abrar
Waseem.
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15th November 2022, 21:37 #64
Local Club Captain
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- Aug 2015
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Some radical changes will have to be made if Pakistan have to do well in the tournament. There is not much time left though, even less than a year.
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15th November 2022, 21:38 #65
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16th November 2022, 00:23 #66
Senior T20I Player
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- Feb 2019
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My squad/xi would be for the world cup 2023
Imaam
Fakhar/Harris
Babar
Haris Sohail(If he's fit if not then Shan Masood)
Rizwan
Qasim Akram
Fahim Ashraf
Shadab khan
Shaheen
Naseem
Rauf
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16th November 2022, 00:38 #67
Tape Ball Captain
- Debut
- Jan 2013
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Imam
Fakhar
Babar
Rizwan
Iftikhar
Haris
Shadab
Nawaz
Afridi
Naseem
Haris
Shan
Imad
Hasnain
Dhani/batter
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16th November 2022, 00:49 #68
If Pakistan play this team they will make semis minimum.
Fakhar
Imam
Babar
Rizwan
Harris
Nawaz
shadab
Imad
Shaheen
Rauff
Naseem Shah
3 spinners , 3 fast bowlers
Imad , Nwaz , Shadab all can bat pretty well , even tail can wag if required
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16th November 2022, 00:54 #69
Local Club Captain
- Debut
- Jul 2013
- Venue
- Canada
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Mohd Hafeez has retired and is no longer even available. Shoaib Malik has already been discarded by Ramiz led PCB. I don't see a path for him to make a comeback. Not under this set up. I don't think age is a an issue as Iftikhar according to Waqar is same (actual) age as Shoaib Malik.
However in ODI we have Imam, Abdullah And now Shan Masood in top order. Babar, Rizwan and Mohd Harris. However we need someone in the lower middle order. Iftikhar can he play long innings and stablize the middle order? I don't think Asif Ali will ever become consistent. We also need to find an attacking new spinner.
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16th November 2022, 02:01 #70
Senior T20I Player
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- Feb 2019
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16th November 2022, 02:12 #71
ODI Debutant
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- Jul 2018
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- London, UK
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Haha look at all these teams with Imam as the opening batsman
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16th November 2022, 02:20 #72
Need to find 2 spinners to partner alongside Shadab. Probably one will play alongside him, but need a back up as well. Our LOI spin options have been barren aside from Shadab ever since the attack of Hafeez Afridi Ajmal was broken.
It’s quite clear that Nawaz and Imad aren’t true spinners, they don’t spin the ball at all. Maybe Imad can work as back up because he can bat as well, unless Nawaz recovers mentally. Nawaz is going through what Bale’s Batman went through after Bane broke his back. For him it was that final over Vs India at the hands of Kohli. Kohli broke his spirit and it hasn’t been restored for the entirety of the 2022 t20 WC.
Nawaz needs to take a long break from the game. Long as in a few months at least. Take his mind off cricket and just enjoy life for a bit. He’s still talented but it’s useless as long as he’s feeling dread as a cricketer mentally.
Aside from that we need to find back up openers and reliable men for middle order aside from the usual suspects.
Btw all this I’m saying is not simply to reach semis or reach finals. No, it’s time to prep to lift this cup once and for all.
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16th November 2022, 02:27 #73
You raise an excellent point.
Pakistan is fantastic at wasting the peaks of their best players unlike Australia and WI who lifted the WC multiple times during their respective peaks.
1987 WC- Pak, clear favorites, bottled it whilst playing in familiar conditions with a gun ODI squad
1992 WC- Won
1996 WC- Bottled
1999 WC- Bottled
2003, 2007- Pakistan was favorites in neither, this was a transition period and so the poor showings are understandable
2007 t20 WC- bottled, for sure.
2011- Bottled a winnable game Vs India, giving Sachin 101 chances and spineless batting.
2015- Same as 2003, 2007, but bottled it Vs Australia with a halwa drop catch
2019- Meh, not really favorites
2022 t20 WC- also winnable, bottled.
It’s high time we nailed this 2023 WC before our next transitional phase. Having 2 World Cup trophies given how many times we’ve been favorites is a joke. I didn’t even include 2012, 2014 t20 WCs. 3 t20 WCs in Asia + 1 ODI WC, won noneLast edited by Suleiman; 16th November 2022 at 02:28.
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16th November 2022, 04:53 #74
First Class Star
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- Aug 2017
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Imam
Babar
Shan
Rizwan
With those batsmen in the top 5 Pakistan are not winning high scoring matches against the best teams I don’t expect anything from Pakistan in the next 2 world cups until a new captain is appointed and a new era starts.
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16th November 2022, 05:41 #75
T20I Debutant
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- Jul 2016
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16th November 2022, 05:52 #76
T20I Debutant
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- Jul 2016
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- New Jersey, USA
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50 over cricket requires proper batsmen with positive intent and good technique .
Shafiq Abdulla should be in the squad and also, Babar, Shaan, Rizwan, Imam , Haris and Fakhar ( only if in form ) and a power hitter, if Sahibzada can be developed into that role .
Shadad and another spinner ,
Naseem, Afridi, Husnain, Wasim and Rauf as fast bowler
Need to discard the dead weights like Haider, Asif, Chacha and most pathetic of them all , Khushdil.
Not enough time to make wholesome changes.
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16th November 2022, 06:42 #77
We will do well in this world cup
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16th November 2022, 08:23 #78
Tape Ball Star
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- Jun 2019
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Fakhar / Sharjeel (try both to assess form)
Imam
Babar
Shan Masood
Rizwan
Shadab (c)
Imad (need batting and game awareness)
Abrar Ahmed (must in India)
Shaheen
Rauf
Naseem
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16th November 2022, 09:23 #79
T20I Debutant
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- Aug 2009
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- Terrestrial
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3 fast bowlers, alongside Shadab, Nawaz and a part-timer. Fakhar, Imam and Babar, Rizwan will likely make the first four.
The 2 places left will have to be carefully decided, and on merit.
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16th November 2022, 10:17 #80
First Class Player
- Debut
- Mar 2010
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- Hanover Park
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I am not convinced about a top 4 of Fakhar Imam Babar Rizwan. Will it be good enough to get to 330 to 350 scores against top sides.
Somehow Fakhar doesn't inspire confidence lately. Has been unfit and not sure when will come back to leak fitness and form.
Imam we all know doesn't take advantage of power play and has only 2 release shot of jumping down the track.
Babar is excellent for odi, but must work on weakness against quality spin particularly googlies.
Rizwan is fine but cannot accelerate.
.somehow we should see if either one of Saim or Muhammad Haris can open and if Haris Sohail can have one final hurrah at number 4..