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  1. #1
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    Fawad Chaudhry should be banned: Mufti Muneeb

    The usual Eid moon-sighting drama, but getting more dramatic as time goes by.

    -------------

    Ruet-e-Hilal Committee chairperson Mufti Muneebur Rehman says Federal Science and Technology Minister Fawad Chaudhry should be banned.

    He was speaking to the media in a press conference to announce the committee's decision on the Eid moon sighting Saturday evening.

    Rehman said Chaudhry should stay within his ministry. He said the committee condemns the science minister's interference in religious matters.

    He made a reference to Chaudhry''s comment earlier in the day over moon sighting for Eid and said Eid is the business of those who fast and pray.

    Chaudhry had said the Eid moon will be visible in Pakistan tonight (Saturday night), making Sunday Eid before the committee's announcement.

    He had said the State was trying to accommodate religious groups when it shouldn’t be. The State is and should be above factions, he said.

    Chaudhry’s statements came as no surprise as he has been vocal in his opposition of the Ruet-e-Hilal Committee, Pakistan’s official moon sighting body.

    He rejected statements by people who said science and technology had no place in Islam.

    He also slammed ‘maulvis’ who were fine with wearing glasses to see the moon but not use telescopes. It’s all science and technology, said the minister.

    https://www.samaa.tv/news/2020/05/fa...-mufti-muneeb/


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  2. #2
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    Hahaha typical mullah


    Fawwy 2 - Mullah 0

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Hahaha typical mullah


    Fawwy 2 - Mullah 0
    Both of them are clowns of the highest order.

  4. #4
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post



    Lol, he was mainly focused on iftar.

    That joker Fawad Chaudhry should be banned from any post, what so ever.

  6. #6
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    Banned from what exactly? The government? TV? Life?

    I don’t know much about the minister, but anyone who riles up the maulvis is alright in my book.

  7. #7
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    This mufti and his ruet committee must be banished.

  8. #8
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    What has Dabbu been up to now

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
    Banned from what exactly? The government? TV? Life?

    I don’t know much about the minister, but anyone who riles up the maulvis is alright in my book.
    Do a google search on Fawad Chudharys past, his previous statements on different matters and you will see why he should be banned from any position of responsibility.

    As for the Maulvis, i am not much in their favour either but somethings (like a sharai masla of moon sighting) should be left to them. This is sumnah and a religious matter, hence the Royat-e-Hilal committee has the authority. Fawad Chaudhry has no justification to meddle in this matter.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight_Rider View Post
    Do a google search on Fawad Chudharys past, his previous statements on different matters and you will see why he should be banned from any position of responsibility.
    That sort of answers my question: he should be banned from government. However, there’s this: “Rehman said Chaudhry should stay within his ministry.” It almost sounds like the Mufti wants him banned from being outdoors, which is sagacious advice in this pandemic era.

  11. #11
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    Looking at the majority of the posts here I am not surprised why this country is in a mess. People like you deserve clowns like FC!


    Ki Mohammad (saw) sey wafa tu ney tou hum terey hain
    Yeh jahaan cheez kya hai Loh-o-Qalam tere hain

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    Looking at the majority of the posts here I am not surprised why this country is in a mess. People like you deserve clowns like FC!
    Instead we’ve been blessed with Mufti Muneeb for several decades. Verily, the Lord is Most Merciful, Most Beneficent.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
    Instead we’ve been blessed with Mufti Muneeb for several decades. Verily, the Lord is Most Merciful, Most Beneficent.
    A genuine question; what mistakes or blunders have Mufti sahib made?


    Ki Mohammad (saw) sey wafa tu ney tou hum terey hain
    Yeh jahaan cheez kya hai Loh-o-Qalam tere hain

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    A genuine question; what mistakes or blunders have Mufti sahib made?
    Mufti is a blunder himself, the country needs unity as oppose to celebrating Eid on different days. I support Fawad and his recent contributions have been praise worthy.

  15. #15
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    What did Fawad do wrong this time ?

    For the first time in history of pakistan, Pakistan is celebrating eid with the rest of the world. This is thanks to astronomical calculations and technology used worldwide, including Saudi and other major Islamic countries. That’s how you even determine the prayers timings everyday. Muftis want to sight the moon, but they follow technology when it comes to prayer timings. Why not sight the position of the sun daily 5 times a day to predict the prayer timings as well? The refusal to use technology is the main reason why there is a massive divide between certain organizations worldwide.


    In Toronto, the same ruet hilal committee create confusions every year, major reason being their refusal to use technology. They need to realize we are one ummah, and if it is eid in Mississauga, it is eid in Toronto. If it is eid in Islamabad, it is eid in Lahore too. One worldwide body is there already that has a subset in almost every country. That should be followed.

    This year fawad chaudary informed the ullemas already as to where the moon can be sighted for their satisfaction. He based it on astronomical calculations widely used worldwide and mufti muneeb finally looked in the same direction, proving fawad right.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    A genuine question; what mistakes or blunders have Mufti sahib made?
    I never insinuated that Mufti Sb (Daamat Barakatuhum) made any blunders. I was expressing genuine gratitude that he had graced us with his presence for this long, batting away the occasional barb with trademark stoicism.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedzee View Post
    What did Fawad do wrong this time ?
    Lol, this sums it up pretty much.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    Mufti is a blunder himself, the country needs unity as oppose to celebrating Eid on different days. I support Fawad and his recent contributions have been praise worthy.
    Which ones exactly?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight_Rider View Post
    Which ones exactly?
    Chitrol and pouncing of the journalists 😁

    Only that's one of the few reasons I know him for

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedzee View Post
    What did Fawad do wrong this time ?

    For the first time in history of pakistan, Pakistan is celebrating eid with the rest of the world. This is thanks to astronomical calculations and technology used worldwide, including Saudi and other major Islamic countries. That’s how you even determine the prayers timings everyday. Muftis want to sight the moon, but they follow technology when it comes to prayer timings. Why not sight the position of the sun daily 5 times a day to predict the prayer timings as well? The refusal to use technology is the main reason why there is a massive divide between certain organizations worldwide.


    In Toronto, the same ruet hilal committee create confusions every year, major reason being their refusal to use technology. They need to realize we are one ummah, and if it is eid in Mississauga, it is eid in Toronto. If it is eid in Islamabad, it is eid in Lahore too. One worldwide body is there already that has a subset in almost every country. That should be followed.

    This year fawad chaudary informed the ullemas already as to where the moon can be sighted for their satisfaction. He based it on astronomical calculations widely used worldwide and mufti muneeb finally looked in the same direction, proving fawad right.
    Actually, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh along with several other Muslim nations usually celebrate Eid on the same day. It is a minority of the Muslim world which celebrates at the same time as Saudi.

    Also, there is no obligation of every Muslim to celebrate on the same day, as the lunar calendar is dependent upon geography and according to the sunnah, absolutely nothing wrong with eid being on different days, unless there is a central Khilafah and they announce eid on a particular day, then there can be cause for it being world wide. There is currently no caliphate in charge.

    The use of technology, sightings or calculations is an entirely different matter to the other points you mentioned. You have conflated all 3 points for no reason.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
    I never insinuated that Mufti Sb (Daamat Barakatuhum) made any blunders. I was expressing genuine gratitude that he had graced us with his presence for this long, batting away the occasional barb with trademark stoicism.
    Mullah Sb just dab on them haters and buy a telescope and do sightings of moon slash aunties from your balcony

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    Mullah Sb just dab on them haters and buy a telescope and do sightings of moon slash aunties from your balcony
    I would if I had a balcony.

  23. #23
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    Moon wars are getting boring now


    If you want to destroy a country, just create enmity between its people and their army - Salahuddin

  24. #24
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    This should end the debate. Science wins.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    Looking at the majority of the posts here I am not surprised why this country is in a mess. People like you deserve clowns like FC!
    You calling me clown bro

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    This should end the debate. Science wins.
    Science can, and it should, assist Moon Sighting but it can't be used as a sole criterion. Having said that, I think Maulvis are at fault here.

    Even if science predicts moon sigting on Day-X , there still need to be credible eye witness reports of sighting the moon. If sky is cloudy and vision unclear ( so much so that people can't see moon on 29th) , Hadees tells people of "that area" to continue fasting on next day. ( That I believe is a case when there is no communication between 02 areas).

    With better communication in 21st century, Moon sighted anywhere is equivalent to moon sighted everywhere.

    But Maulvis exploit this whole issue to further their collateral motives.

    More relevant question is how we should define "Moon Regions" ?
    Even between two ends of Map, Gap of One day is a very big difference. Otherwise why would Islamic Calendar start and end on same day across the globe ?

    How is it possible that across the globe Moon year starts on same day, ends on same day but behave differently in between ?

    Indo-Pak culture follows a self-established "Moon Region" , specifically for Ramdhan. It adds to dimensions of Religious Groups who otherwise will not attract much fans on merit.

    I am very Conservative but Maulvis aren't.
    Last edited by last_knight; 24th May 2020 at 15:05.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    This should end the debate. Science wins.
    For this year. Maulvis need the power for the $

  28. #28
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    At the end Fawad Ch won the battle

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    This should end the debate. Science wins.
    What do you mean science win? Over whom or what?

    One thing is clear, science will only follow Islam, not the other way around. Allah SWT has already laid the plattform, and if He wants the human brain will understand certain things today or tomorrow.

    Regarding the moonsighting, there are proper rules for that, the Sunna and you need to follow that. You just can’t use your logic always as that has restrictions.

    Have you ever questioned why Fajr is way shorter than Isha? I mean when you have slept during the night you will have more enery than late in the evening. So according to your logic things should have been other way around maybe? Sometimes it’s better to let the Aql take rest andfollow what we are ordered to by Allah and his Prophet (pbuh)


    Ki Mohammad (saw) sey wafa tu ney tou hum terey hain
    Yeh jahaan cheez kya hai Loh-o-Qalam tere hain

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    The usual Eid moon-sighting drama, but getting more dramatic as time goes by.

    -------------

    Ruet-e-Hilal Committee chairperson Mufti Muneebur Rehman says Federal Science and Technology Minister Fawad Chaudhry should be banned.

    He was speaking to the media in a press conference to announce the committee's decision on the Eid moon sighting Saturday evening.

    Rehman said Chaudhry should stay within his ministry. He said the committee condemns the science minister's interference in religious matters.

    He made a reference to Chaudhry''s comment earlier in the day over moon sighting for Eid and said Eid is the business of those who fast and pray.

    Chaudhry had said the Eid moon will be visible in Pakistan tonight (Saturday night), making Sunday Eid before the committee's announcement.

    He had said the State was trying to accommodate religious groups when it shouldn’t be. The State is and should be above factions, he said.

    Chaudhry’s statements came as no surprise as he has been vocal in his opposition of the Ruet-e-Hilal Committee, Pakistan’s official moon sighting body.

    He rejected statements by people who said science and technology had no place in Islam.

    He also slammed ‘maulvis’ who were fine with wearing glasses to see the moon but not use telescopes. It’s all science and technology, said the minister.

    https://www.samaa.tv/news/2020/05/fa...-mufti-muneeb/
    This raises a few questions more broadly. One of which is, who speaks for Islam?

    The religious establishment zealously guard the religious sphere from encroachments from the state. They consider themselves as experts akin to specialists in other areas such as doctors in the field of medicine. This has frequently led to tensions with modernists who have also often sought to speak on behalf of Islam.

    To go somewhat off topic, historical context is helpful here. We turn first to that remarkable figure in the nineteenth century, Sayyid Ahmad Khan. Sir Sayyid was a pioneer of Islamic modernism in South Asia. He expended considerable energy to argue that the divine message could be reconciled to science and that it was wholly within the ambit of reason. During his life he was attacked mercilessly, especially by the ulama, and even labeled a kafir and representative of the Devil. But in his own defence he stated “I have done this work, for which I am not qualified, out of love for Islam.”

    Crucially, Sir Sayyid rejected the exclusive right of the ulama to express ijma. We should note that Sir Sayyid’s vision was not democratic in the way we would understand it today, but his conception marked a sharp break from traditional ideas on ijma. It paved the way for lay people to speak in the name of Islam and for ideas of ijma that were more sensitive to popular opinion.

    We see this in Iqbal, as we shift to the twentieth century, who states that religious consensus can be arrived through a parliamentary system of government:

    “The transfer of the power of Ijtihad from individual representatives of [classical] schools [of law] to a Muslim legislative assembly which, in view of the growth of opposing sects, is the one possible form Ijma can take in modern times, will secure contributions to legal discussions from laymen who happen to possess keen insight into affairs.”

    The Pakistan movement is of significance too, for it was led not by the religious establishment but by the modernist elite that regularly invoked Islam in their speeches. This is true even of Jinnah in the last decade of his life. In one speech in 1945 to mark Eid al-Fitr, Jinnah spoke of Islam as “not merely confined to the spiritual tenets or doctrine or rituals and ceremonies. It is a complete code regulating the whole Muslim society, every department of life, collectively and individually.” Significantly the modernist thrust was revealed by the statement “every Musalman should possess a copy of the Quran and be his own priest.” This idea of each person being their own ‘priest’ no doubt raised the eyebrows of the ulama and pirs who saw themselves as crucial intermediaries.

    In the early years of Pakistan’s life, the modernist elite, despite pressures from the religious establishment, continued to advance their understanding of Islam. The Constitution of 1956 in fact was largely in accord with modernist orientations. Quoting the legal scholar Dieter Conrad, Matthew Nelson states Pakistan’s first Constituent Assembly took a momentous decision in respect to “the power of interpretation” regarding Islamic law and that, as Conrad wrote “this decision has remained the common basic structure [for every] constitution” thereafter. “The power to ... bring all legislation in accordance with “the injunctions of Islam”, Conrad wrote “was vested in parliament as the final interpreting authority.” “The general disposition" of the state was “to treat Islamic principles as a matter [for] the future’”and “to entrust their realization to the ... political responsibility of the legislature.”

    The Ayub era was the height of the modernist vision and also marked the start of its decline. Ayub was intent on demonstrating the inherent compatibility of development and progress on one hand and Islam on the other. He did not seek to erase Islam from public life, but like the modernists before him, he believed that Islam, ‘properly’ interpreted “alone provides a natural ideology that can save the soul of humanity from destruction.” The Central Institute of Islamic Research set up by the government in 1960 reflected modernist principles, with the government explaining that the purpose of the institute was “to define Islam in terms of its fundamentals in a rational and liberal manner and to emphasise…the basic Islamic ideas of universal brotherhood, tolerance and social justice” as well as to “interpret the teachings of Islam in such a way as to bring out its dynamic character in the context of the intellectual and scientific progress of the modern world.”

    For Ayub, the state rather than the ulama or pirs, was central to this vision of Islamic modernism. This in fact led to controversy in 1967 over the day Eid was to be celebrated. The ‘moon sighting committee’ made up of the defence minister, a naval official and one member of the ulama had declared Thursday, 12 January as the day of Eid. Many religious figures protested. Rumours were circulated that the regime wished to avoid Friday as Eid in the superstitious belief that it bode ill for its future. Five figures of the religious establishment - including prominent figures Maududi and Ehtisham ul-Haq Thanvi - were imprisoned by the state for their displays of dissent.

    Yet far from representing strength, Ayub was increasingly becoming a beleaguered figure. Islamic modernism was coming under considerable stress in the Ayub years. It was in 1968, that the great modernist intellectual, Fazlur Rahman was forced to resign as director of the Institute of Islamic Research, for instance.

    With the decline of modernism the religious establishment has become more determined to defend what it considers its turf. It explains some of the strong reaction to Fawad Chaudhry’s statements.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    What do you mean science win? Over whom or what?

    One thing is clear, science will only follow Islam, not the other way around. Allah SWT has already laid the plattform, and if He wants the human brain will understand certain things today or tomorrow.

    Regarding the moonsighting, there are proper rules for that, the Sunna and you need to follow that. You just can’t use your logic always as that has restrictions.

    Have you ever questioned why Fajr is way shorter than Isha? I mean when you have slept during the night you will have more enery than late in the evening. So according to your logic things should have been other way around maybe? Sometimes it’s better to let the Aql take rest andfollow what we are ordered to by Allah and his Prophet (pbuh)
    If the Maulvis follow Sunnah why do we have 2 Eids in the same country, surely one group is not following the Sunnah.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    What do you mean science win? Over whom or what?

    One thing is clear, science will only follow Islam, not the other way around. Allah SWT has already laid the plattform, and if He wants the human brain will understand certain things today or tomorrow.

    Regarding the moonsighting, there are proper rules for that, the Sunna and you need to follow that. You just can’t use your logic always as that has restrictions.

    Have you ever questioned why Fajr is way shorter than Isha? I mean when you have slept during the night you will have more enery than late in the evening. So according to your logic things should have been other way around maybe? Sometimes it’s better to let the Aql take rest andfollow what we are ordered to by Allah and his Prophet (pbuh)
    Science is just a snapshot of what fact based knowledge we ve at any given point in time. Scientific views may change at any time.

    Where as religion to most part is just blind belief.

    Both aren’t necessarily compatible all the time, so you Choose whatever you want to believe in. Ramadan is a religious event, so how can science justify or specify how the moon should be sighted?

  33. #33
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    Fawad zindabad! I hope Imran Khan had Fawad’s guts when its comes to taking on rabid mullahs!

  34. #34
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    Sack useless mutif Naeem and his equally useless committee. Its 2020 we're still relying on Moulvis for scientific matters like predicting precise timing of moon sighting.

    Good Job Fawad Chaudhry.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by KB View Post
    This raises a few questions more broadly. One of which is, who speaks for Islam?

    The religious establishment zealously guard the religious sphere from encroachments from the state. They consider themselves as experts akin to specialists in other areas such as doctors in the field of medicine. This has frequently led to tensions with modernists who have also often sought to speak on behalf of Islam.

    To go somewhat off topic, historical context is helpful here. We turn first to that remarkable figure in the nineteenth century, Sayyid Ahmad Khan. Sir Sayyid was a pioneer of Islamic modernism in South Asia. He expended considerable energy to argue that the divine message could be reconciled to science and that it was wholly within the ambit of reason. During his life he was attacked mercilessly, especially by the ulama, and even labeled a kafir and representative of the Devil. But in his own defence he stated “I have done this work, for which I am not qualified, out of love for Islam.”

    Crucially, Sir Sayyid rejected the exclusive right of the ulama to express ijma. We should note that Sir Sayyid’s vision was not democratic in the way we would understand it today, but his conception marked a sharp break from traditional ideas on ijma. It paved the way for lay people to speak in the name of Islam and for ideas of ijma that were more sensitive to popular opinion.

    We see this in Iqbal, as we shift to the twentieth century, who states that religious consensus can be arrived through a parliamentary system of government:

    “The transfer of the power of Ijtihad from individual representatives of [classical] schools [of law] to a Muslim legislative assembly which, in view of the growth of opposing sects, is the one possible form Ijma can take in modern times, will secure contributions to legal discussions from laymen who happen to possess keen insight into affairs.”

    The Pakistan movement is of significance too, for it was led not by the religious establishment but by the modernist elite that regularly invoked Islam in their speeches. This is true even of Jinnah in the last decade of his life. In one speech in 1945 to mark Eid al-Fitr, Jinnah spoke of Islam as “not merely confined to the spiritual tenets or doctrine or rituals and ceremonies. It is a complete code regulating the whole Muslim society, every department of life, collectively and individually.” Significantly the modernist thrust was revealed by the statement “every Musalman should possess a copy of the Quran and be his own priest.” This idea of each person being their own ‘priest’ no doubt raised the eyebrows of the ulama and pirs who saw themselves as crucial intermediaries.

    In the early years of Pakistan’s life, the modernist elite, despite pressures from the religious establishment, continued to advance their understanding of Islam. The Constitution of 1956 in fact was largely in accord with modernist orientations. Quoting the legal scholar Dieter Conrad, Matthew Nelson states Pakistan’s first Constituent Assembly took a momentous decision in respect to “the power of interpretation” regarding Islamic law and that, as Conrad wrote “this decision has remained the common basic structure [for every] constitution” thereafter. “The power to ... bring all legislation in accordance with “the injunctions of Islam”, Conrad wrote “was vested in parliament as the final interpreting authority.” “The general disposition" of the state was “to treat Islamic principles as a matter [for] the future’”and “to entrust their realization to the ... political responsibility of the legislature.”

    The Ayub era was the height of the modernist vision and also marked the start of its decline. Ayub was intent on demonstrating the inherent compatibility of development and progress on one hand and Islam on the other. He did not seek to erase Islam from public life, but like the modernists before him, he believed that Islam, ‘properly’ interpreted “alone provides a natural ideology that can save the soul of humanity from destruction.” The Central Institute of Islamic Research set up by the government in 1960 reflected modernist principles, with the government explaining that the purpose of the institute was “to define Islam in terms of its fundamentals in a rational and liberal manner and to emphasise…the basic Islamic ideas of universal brotherhood, tolerance and social justice” as well as to “interpret the teachings of Islam in such a way as to bring out its dynamic character in the context of the intellectual and scientific progress of the modern world.”

    For Ayub, the state rather than the ulama or pirs, was central to this vision of Islamic modernism. This in fact led to controversy in 1967 over the day Eid was to be celebrated. The ‘moon sighting committee’ made up of the defence minister, a naval official and one member of the ulama had declared Thursday, 12 January as the day of Eid. Many religious figures protested. Rumours were circulated that the regime wished to avoid Friday as Eid in the superstitious belief that it bode ill for its future. Five figures of the religious establishment - including prominent figures Maududi and Ehtisham ul-Haq Thanvi - were imprisoned by the state for their displays of dissent.

    Yet far from representing strength, Ayub was increasingly becoming a beleaguered figure. Islamic modernism was coming under considerable stress in the Ayub years. It was in 1968, that the great modernist intellectual, Fazlur Rahman was forced to resign as director of the Institute of Islamic Research, for instance.

    With the decline of modernism the religious establishment has become more determined to defend what it considers its turf. It explains some of the strong reaction to Fawad Chaudhry’s statements.
    Thank you sir for great piece of historical information.


  36. #36
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    My goodness. Everyone please go to your roofs and see the moon. Crystal clear and definitely 2nd day moon.

    I am capturing the video.

    Fawad Ch. actually helped every one.

  37. #37
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    JHELUM: Science and Technology Minister Fawad Chaudhry said Sunday that two moon observatories will be set up by next year to "permanently resolve" moon-sighting conflicts.

    Speaking to the media here in the city, Chaudhry said the plan was to set up moon observatories in Islamabad and Gwadar where anyone would be able to go and see the moon for themselves.

    "Given the debate we observed over moon [sighting] this year, we intend to set up a moon observatory in Islamabad next year and we're also trying to set one up in Gwadar too," the federal minister explained.

    Mufti vs Minister: The annual 'Chaand Raat feud' through the eyes of internet trolls

    "The issue of moon-sighting will be permanently resolved after the moon observatories" are established, he noted. "A common person will be able to go and see the moon and decide for themselves," he added.

    The minister also thanked Central Ruet-e-Hilal Committee Chairperson Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rahman and other members, as well as religious scholars of Pakistan, for their contributions to the country.

    "This Eid was not possible without them. I thank them all," he mentioned.

    Chaudhry noted that the happiness of Eid-ul-Fitr had been dimmed, first due to the coronavirus pandemic and then because of the PIA plane crash when flight PK-8303 plunged into a residential neighbourhood of Karachi, killing all but two of the 99 people aboard.

    "The good thing is that the entire country celebrated Eid together on one day this time. From Pasni to Lahore and from Karachi to Peshawar, one Eid was celebrated throughout the Islamic world," he added.

    Religious festivities, the minister said, should be a reason of unity and agreement and "that happened today".

    https://www.geo.tv/latest/289653-moo...fawad-chaudhry


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  38. #38
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    I may be mistaken but I heard that it's better to have Eid on the same day as the majority of the other muslims so in that sense all the countries in Asia should celebrate it on the same day IMO.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    What do you mean science win? Over whom or what?

    One thing is clear, science will only follow Islam, not the other way around. Allah SWT has already laid the plattform, and if He wants the human brain will understand certain things today or tomorrow.

    Regarding the moonsighting, there are proper rules for that, the Sunna and you need to follow that. You just can’t use your logic always as that has restrictions.

    Have you ever questioned why Fajr is way shorter than Isha? I mean when you have slept during the night you will have more enery than late in the evening. So according to your logic things should have been other way around maybe? Sometimes it’s better to let the Aql take rest andfollow what we are ordered to by Allah and his Prophet (pbuh)
    Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) used swords for fighting, thats the sunnah. Why do our army use guns these days ? He used to ride on horse/camel. Is it against Islam to use cars these days ?

    Prophet and his companions used to observe the position of sun/stars for daily namaz because there were no clocks. Why don't we follow that sunnah these days ?

    Islam actually encourages the use of aql. Muslim scientists during the golden era made great contributions to astronomy i.e phases of moon etc.
    In this case, we don't even need that much aql. Its just common sense.

  40. #40
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    One suspects that the maulvis' vitriol is directed not so much at the fact that science can determine whether there is a new moon or not, but more at the fact that this constitutes an encroachment onto what they consider to be their turf. Its the thin end of the wedge. First this, next what? Will family elders start presiding over nikahs all of a sudden? There goes the trademark insinuation that if there had been no maulvi to do it, we would all have been born illegitimate.


    Silver-tongued seraphim circling the spire...
    Gather in the gallery in their best attire...


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
    One suspects that the maulvis' vitriol is directed not so much at the fact that science can determine whether there is a new moon or not, but more at the fact that this constitutes an encroachment onto what they consider to be their turf. Its the thin end of the wedge. First this, next what? Will family elders start presiding over nikahs all of a sudden? There goes the trademark insinuation that if there had been no maulvi to do it, we would all have been born illegitimate.
    Exactly. This is the issue. Mullahs are losing ground and now they are starting to feel it hence these outbursts. After 2-3 more Eids, people will start questioning the role of this ruet committee.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    Exactly. This is the issue. Mullahs are losing ground and now they are starting to feel it hence these outbursts. After 2-3 more Eids, people will start questioning the role of this ruet committee.
    And it isn't as if membership of the Ruet committee is too lucrative in the monetary sense. But once there's a crack in the dam, what if the leak can't be plugged? They've built up an entire economy reliant upon people's gratuitous veneration of them: from monthly donations to the sacrificial hide racket, from CII to the niaz delivered to their doorsteps on every occasion of significance. What if all of that were to be threatened? The horror.


    Silver-tongued seraphim circling the spire...
    Gather in the gallery in their best attire...

  43. #43
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    Mullah cannot replace technology.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
    One suspects that the maulvis' vitriol is directed not so much at the fact that science can determine whether there is a new moon or not, but more at the fact that this constitutes an encroachment onto what they consider to be their turf. Its the thin end of the wedge. First this, next what? Will family elders start presiding over nikahs all of a sudden? There goes the trademark insinuation that if there had been no maulvi to do it, we would all have been born illegitimate.
    during prophets era there was no clergy class or being a maulvi wasn't a profession but know a days it's a profession but it shows our negligence more than it shows their monopoly tbh hope we get to a point where everyone can do these basic duties

    But I don't have a problem with muftis and high level clergy cause they are needed in society to help better understand Quran, Hadith

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    Ruet-e-Hilal Committee is a waste of space, a waste of the national Exchequer and should be banned


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