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  1. #1
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    Was Adam Gilchrist the worst thing to have happened to wicket keeping?

    Ever since Adam Gilchrist happened value of a specialist wicket keeper has diminished so so much that even guys like Kamran Akmal and Rishabh Pant who were horrible keepers got to play a lot of international cricket ahead of many otherwise natural keepers from their respective countries.

    The standard of keeping has gone down drastically.

    To think of it for a while, most of the last class of great keepers of every country belong to the 1990s era, ever since Gilchirst most countries have had very average keepers who are nowhere near the best from their countries

    For this specialist job, my verdict is that Gilchrist has been a curse.

    This must for many people a shocker because Gilchrist is considered to have revolutionized keeping but I claim otherwise

    What has Gilchrist revolutionized really? It wasn't that the game lacked great batsmen, it had plenty, it has plenty and it would continue to have plenty.

    What the game lacks ever since Gilchrist happened, is great specialist wicket keepers. It's an extinct breed now because of one man.

    Discuss

  2. #2
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    I am extremely disappointed to see this article. Adam Gilchrist has changed the definition of a Wicket Keeper Batsman. Before Gilchrist every team had wicket keepers who could do nothing with the bat apart from scoring 20 or 30 odd runs and sometimes in single digits. Gilchrist was a very good Wicket Keeper if not great. I have rarely seen him dropping catches or missing stumpings. Gilchrist being compared with Pant and Kamran Akmal is absolute disgraceful. He made no.7 position in test cricket important. He could change the momentum of the innings by scoring rapidly and disturbing the rhythm of the bowlers. The person who has written this article has no idea about the impact of Adam Gilchrist on Australian Cricket and World Cricket in general.I would say Adam Gilchrist had a massive role in the Golden Era of Aus from 1999 to 2007 in both Tests and Odi's.

  3. #3
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    Nope.

    If anything, Gilchrist has raised the standard.


    Bangladeshi Fan

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    Gilchrist was a mighty fine wicket keeper.


    If there is a better batsman than Sachin then he hasn't arrived yet: Viv Richards

  5. #5
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    Australia never replaced Gilchrist, someone who came in at 90/5 and changed the entire complexion of the game. It took a while for Brad Haddin to start scoring runs but he was no Gilchrist.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Australia never replaced Gilchrist, someone who came in at 90/5 and changed the entire complexion of the game. It took a while for Brad Haddin to start scoring runs but he was no Gilchrist.
    Agreed, but no keeper since Gilchrist has compared to him. De Kockbis inconsistent and prior only did for a brief time. Watling is the best keeper bat since gilly but completely different players

    Haddin actually ranks quite highly compared to many others

  7. #7
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    Op has a point The standard of keeping has fallen dramtically since a keeper that can bat become more important than keeping itself

    Even pakistan suffered with the likes of akmal because he could supposedly bat

    The fact is he played for so long on the basis that he avged a few more runs than the next man when his keeping was awful was a travesty in itself
    Last edited by Zaz; 31st May 2020 at 20:36.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Op has a point The standard of keeping has fallen dramtically since a keeper that can bat become more important than keeping itself

    Even pakistan suffered with the likes of akmal because he could supposedly bat

    The fact is he played for so long on the basis that he avged a few more runs than the next man when his keeping was awful was a travesty in itself
    Thanks @Zaz bro for understanding the point.

    This is not an attack on Gilchrist. He is a legend of the game.

    He did change the game!

    But the arguement here is that did Gilchrist change the game for the good or for the bad?

    I say for the bad.

    You have a great example of Kamran. Jist imagine Pakistan cricket's fortune during the 2000s with a competent wicket keeper. The Sydney test, The match vs NZ in world cup to name a few.

    Hundreds of kids from the 1990s who trained as wicket keepers, Gilchrist stole their bread literally because suddenly the game did not need competent wicket keepers anymore. It needed a batsman who could keep 'a bit'

    All the specialist keepers went out of job because Gilchrist happened.

    Keeping standards today are worse than ever before, it's at its lowest point.

  9. #9
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    I'd blame for the selectors for not ensuring glovework is a keeper's first priority.

  10. #10
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    Adam Gilchrist would walk in as a wk in any side in any era. Only MSD is a competition in LOIs.

    And we have played 100 years of test cricket.

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    specialist wicket keeper has diminished so so much that even guys like Kamran Akmal and Rishabh Pant who were horrible keepers got to play a lot of international cricket ahead of many otherwise natural keepers from their respective countries.
    Be careful there what you wish for.
    Pakistan have lost test series (with s), key test matches and world cup ODI games thanks to Kami's keeping.

    Likes of Sami, Kaneria and Akhtar's career averages are higher thanks to this joke of a wicket keeper.

    Pant hasn't lost a single game yet (afaik).

    Gilchrist was a once a lifetime kinda player. It is unfair to compare random wks with him.

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    90's lacked great AR who could provide great balance to the team like the decade before. When Andy Flower , Gilchrist compensated for that. Rest of the countries tried to follow the that trend.


    Aaj ka kaam kal karo, Kal ka kaam parson. Aisi bhi jaldi kya hai, Jab jeena hai barson.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Thanks @Zaz bro for understanding the point.

    This is not an attack on Gilchrist. He is a legend of the game.

    He did change the game!

    But the arguement here is that did Gilchrist change the game for the good or for the bad?

    I say for the bad.

    You have a great example of Kamran. Jist imagine Pakistan cricket's fortune during the 2000s with a competent wicket keeper. The Sydney test, The match vs NZ in world cup to name a few.

    Hundreds of kids from the 1990s who trained as wicket keepers, Gilchrist stole their bread literally because suddenly the game did not need competent wicket keepers anymore. It needed a batsman who could keep 'a bit'

    All the specialist keepers went out of job because Gilchrist happened.

    Keeping standards today are worse than ever before, it's at its lowest point.
    I like the sensibility of the thread but the blame must not go to Gilchrist for this. He simply set the benchmark higher by averaging in 50s with bat during his playing days and still being an excellent keeper.

    It's the evolution of the game and influence of LOI cricket that forced the selectors, team management, captain and coach that post-Gilchrist, they started looking for keepers who must average over 35 with the bat even if their keeping skills are nothing more than decent.

    International cricket don't produce Warne and Murali today, they don't produce Marshall, Lillee, Garner, Donald and Waqar today which is why we no longer need Alan Knott, Ian Healy, Mark Boucher as our wicket keeper batsmen. Rather we want a Kumar Sangakkara, MS Dhoni,AB de Villiers, BJ Watling, Quinton de kock and Brad Haddin who are good keepers as well as don't become a liability with bat also.

    Adam Gilchrist taught the world that you can be a good keeper and bat well enough as well, an idea which was alien to cricketers before 90s. Now the blame goes to the selectors, team management and lower level set up on whether they groove youngsters as keeper batsmen or batsmen keeper and whom they give that extra push.

    Because of influence of LOI cricket, generally batsmen keeper are given that extra push today and hence we see a QDk and Buttler rather than a Healy or Boucher in current era.
    Last edited by Ab Fan; 31st May 2020 at 23:03.

  14. #14
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    I can understand playing someone like a gilly even if he was a half decent keeper because he was as good as most batters out there

    But kamran wasnt even a half decent batter His batting stats are very very avge for someone who was supposedly in the team because he could bat Truly astounding he played for as long as he did and theres so much noise wanting him back too inspite of everything


    If pakistan cricket is to move forward they need to stop going back

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    No he wasn't. Watching him bat was entertaining.

  16. #16
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    He has raised their expectations and responsibilities and therefore, of the game itself.

    Only two other persons have done that in the last 50 years; Richards and Warne.

  17. #17
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    Pakistan should have kept playing Adnan Akmal in tests, he was such a good pure WK. It's very important to make sure the keeper can catch well. OP is right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Agreed, but no keeper since Gilchrist has compared to him. De Kockbis inconsistent and prior only did for a brief time. Watling is the best keeper bat since gilly but completely different players

    Haddin actually ranks quite highly compared to many others
    Sangakkara, MSD, Butler, Bairstow??

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    Point of the thread has gone over most peoples heads it seems.

    OP isn’t blaming Gilchrist personally but the fact that batting skills over keeping skills are being given first preference.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    Sangakkara, MSD, Butler, Bairstow??
    lmao putting a mediocrity like Bairstow in the same setence as those legends


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    lmao putting a mediocrity like Bairstow in the same setence as those legends
    Bairstow might be an average keeper but an absolute gun ODI batsman..

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Point of the thread has gone over most peoples heads it seems.

    OP isn’t blaming Gilchrist personally but the fact that batting skills over keeping skills are being given first preference.
    Good luck selecting a “specialist” WK in this era of 400-450 par scores in ODI’s..

  23. #23
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    Gilly was a great keeper, if anything he improved standards. Now keepers are expected to offer something with the bat.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    I like the sensibility of the thread but the blame must not go to Gilchrist for this. He simply set the benchmark higher by averaging in 50s with bat during his playing days and still being an excellent keeper.

    It's the evolution of the game and influence of LOI cricket that forced the selectors, team management, captain and coach that post-Gilchrist, they started looking for keepers who must average over 35 with the bat even if their keeping skills are nothing more than decent.

    International cricket don't produce Warne and Murali today, they don't produce Marshall, Lillee, Garner, Donald and Waqar today which is why we no longer need Alan Knott, Ian Healy, Mark Boucher as our wicket keeper batsmen. Rather we want a Kumar Sangakkara, MS Dhoni,AB de Villiers, BJ Watling, Quinton de kock and Brad Haddin who are good keepers as well as don't become a liability with bat also.

    Adam Gilchrist taught the world that you can be a good keeper and bat well enough as well, an idea which was alien to cricketers before 90s. Now the blame goes to the selectors, team management and lower level set up on whether they groove youngsters as keeper batsmen or batsmen keeper and whom they give that extra push.

    Because of influence of LOI cricket, generally batsmen keeper are given that extra push today and hence we see a QDk and Buttler rather than a Healy or Boucher in current era.
    Very good point. Also the pitches. Flat pitches and the T20 format coming along during/after Gilchrist also meant that a batsman who can catch is good enough to be the WK.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    Sangakkara, MSD, Butler, Bairstow??
    Sangakarra isn’t a true keeper

    Dhoni hasn’t got a century outside the subcontinent and averages sub 30 in sena. ATG ODI bat, vastly overrated in test

    Bairstow and Buttler lolloll

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    The likes of Misbah and Waqar dropped their full-time keeper during a wC and went with a part-timer in Junior to strengthen batting. We all know how that worked out. Same thing in the early 2000s was done IN the Indian team when David was forced to put on the gloves. We all know it doesn't work. A keeper should be a good keeper first and a decent bat after.

  27. #27
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    I think that Gilchrist and Sangakkara are very, very similar.

    Both are decent but unexceptional wicketkeepers who had a huge batting talent.

    Bairstow and Buttler lack any of their keeping ability, but are excellent batsmen.

    I would actually rank recent keepers as follows in TEST cricket:

    Dhoni: Batting 5/10, Keeping 6/10
    Gilchrist: Batting 7/10, Keeping 7/10
    Sangakkara: Batting 8/10, Keeping 6/10
    Rizwan: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Sarfraz: Batting 3/10, Keeping 7/10
    Watling: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Bairstow: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Buttler: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Paine: Batting 3/10, Keeping 8/10
    Healy: Batting 3/10, Keeping 9/10
    Pant: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Knott: Batting 5/10, Keeping 9/10
    Evans: Batting 4/10, Keeping 10/10
    Wasim Bari: Batting 1/10, Keeping 9/10
    Last edited by Junaids; 1st June 2020 at 07:58.

  28. #28
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    good list @Junaids but Gilchrist underrated there for me. He was the #1 rated batsmen in the world in the early 2000's. Has more ATG innings than a lot of players, including Sachin, Kallis, Inzamam, Miandad, Williamson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I think that Gilchrist and Sangakkara are very, very similar.

    Both are decent but unexceptional wicketkeepers who had a huge batting talent.

    Bairstow and Buttler lack any of their keeping ability, but are excellent batsmen.

    I would actually rank recent keepers as follows in TEST cricket:

    Dhoni: Batting 5/10, Keeping 6/10
    Gilchrist: Batting 7/10, Keeping 7/10
    Sangakkara: Batting 8/10, Keeping 6/10
    Rizwan: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Sarfraz: Batting 3/10, Keeping 7/10
    Watling: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Bairstow: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Buttler: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Paine: Batting 3/10, Keeping 8/10
    Healy: Batting 3/10, Keeping 9/10
    Pant: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Knott: Batting 5/10, Keeping 9/10
    Evans: Batting 4/10, Keeping 10/10
    Wasim Bari: Batting 1/10, Keeping 9/10
    Rizwan Cheema never kept wickets. And he never played tests. You've rated him almost as good as Gilly.

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    @Junaids according to u sarfraz keeping 7/10 is equal to gilly and better than dhoni 6/10🤣🤣🤣

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srtfan View Post
    @Junaids according to u sarfraz keeping 7/10 is equal to gilly and better than dhoni 6/10🤣🤣🤣
    Definitely. Sarfraz was actually a good keeper.

    Nobody has ever claimed that Gilchrist was an excellent keeper. He was an average keeper who was a terrific batsman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Definitely. Sarfraz was actually a good keeper.

    Nobody has ever claimed that Gilchrist was an excellent keeper. He was an average keeper who was a terrific batsman.
    Are you serious? Gilchrist was a terrific wicket keeper! He has the highest dismissals for an Austalian in test cricket, highest in the world in ODIs history. Gilchrist was an extremely safe pair of hands (around 900 international dismissals). You really cant ask for more from a glove man. The reason his keeping doesn't get mentioned is actually a testament to how good a keeper he was. Usually when keepers get mentioned, its for howlers.

    On the others, Buttler and Bairstow are probably better bats than rizwan. I do agree though with Sarfraz being a very good keeper.

    On the overall point of the post, Test cricket still prefers a higher quality of keeper than LOIs, like with a specialist keeper being played leaving sanga to bat, Bairstow being played leaving buttler to bat. Tim Paine, a better keeper than a bat. BJ and QDK are probably among the more talented keepers in their respective countries. Liton Das being played to let Musfiq bat. So teams do still value a good gloveman.

    A bad keeper whose a good batsman is more an exception than the rule in test cricket. And Kamran made sure of it. That's why he still remains the primary example of what not to do, despite his last test appearance being in 2010, a decade ago. There aren't many examples of teams going down that road since, or we'd have had more examples. With Pant, its still too early. He might actually improve his keeping, or India might keep him as a batsmen and bring in a keeper. Lets see.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I think that Gilchrist and Sangakkara are very, very similar.

    Both are decent but unexceptional wicketkeepers who had a huge batting talent.

    Bairstow and Buttler lack any of their keeping ability, but are excellent batsmen.

    I would actually rank recent keepers as follows in TEST cricket:

    Dhoni: Batting 5/10, Keeping 6/10
    Gilchrist: Batting 7/10, Keeping 7/10
    Sangakkara: Batting 8/10, Keeping 6/10
    Rizwan: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Sarfraz: Batting 3/10, Keeping 7/10
    Watling: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Bairstow: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Buttler: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Paine: Batting 3/10, Keeping 8/10
    Healy: Batting 3/10, Keeping 9/10
    Pant: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Knott: Batting 5/10, Keeping 9/10
    Evans: Batting 4/10, Keeping 10/10
    Wasim Bari: Batting 1/10, Keeping 9/10
    Please rate Saha too bro.

    I guess he's an 8 with the gloves going by this list.

    Please delete Pant, it's a request. Don't embarrass us Indians bro.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Point of the thread has gone over most peoples heads it seems.

    OP isn’t blaming Gilchrist personally but the fact that batting skills over keeping skills are being given first preference.
    Thanks my brother.

    Problem with this generation, people don't like to read the paragraphs.

    Gilchrist is unanimously respected.

    We are not targetting or even disrespecting a legend.

    But it is evident from selections since 2000s, that Gilchrist emergence has been a bad news for specialist wicket keepers like Adnan, Saha etc who have lived on thin ice, few bad outings with the bat and people would bring guys like Pant back who is a disgrace to keeping.

    All those who trained to be wicket keepers , their training went tk waste and theh became jobless because some batsman was asked to handle the gloves.

    Hence, Gilchrists emergence has been a bad news for wicket keepers.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Please rate Saha too bro.

    I guess he's an 8 with the gloves going by this list.

    Please delete Pant, it's a request. Don't embarrass us Indians bro.
    I haven't seen Saha for a while, but when I last did I had him roughly 3-4/10 as a batsman but almost as good as Paine with the gloves - so arguably 8/10.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Thanks my brother.

    Problem with this generation, people don't like to read the paragraphs.

    Gilchrist is unanimously respected.

    We are not targetting or even disrespecting a legend.

    But it is evident from selections since 2000s, that Gilchrist emergence has been a bad news for specialist wicket keepers like Adnan, Saha etc who have lived on thin ice, few bad outings with the bat and people would bring guys like Pant back who is a disgrace to keeping.

    All those who trained to be wicket keepers , their training went tk waste and theh became jobless because some batsman was asked to handle the gloves.

    Hence, Gilchrists emergence has been a bad news for wicket keepers.
    Gilly was a phenomenon with the bat, and worth selecting even though his keeping was significantly inferior to Healy or Paine.

    Until the last couple of years he was such a hard trainer that he dropped very little. But he didn't have the footwork to be a top keeper - he struggled somewhat with Warne and a lot with MacGill.

    Like anyone else I would pick Gilchrist for my team ahead of Paine, but only because like Kallis and De Villiers he gave you an extra batsman. But Paine is a far superior keeper and has really strong leadership skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I think that Gilchrist and Sangakkara are very, very similar.

    Both are decent but unexceptional wicketkeepers who had a huge batting talent.

    Bairstow and Buttler lack any of their keeping ability, but are excellent batsmen.

    I would actually rank recent keepers as follows in TEST cricket:

    Dhoni: Batting 5/10, Keeping 6/10
    Gilchrist: Batting 7/10, Keeping 7/10
    Sangakkara: Batting 8/10, Keeping 6/10
    Rizwan: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Sarfraz: Batting 3/10, Keeping 7/10
    Watling: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Bairstow: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Buttler: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Paine: Batting 3/10, Keeping 8/10
    Healy: Batting 3/10, Keeping 9/10
    Pant: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Knott: Batting 5/10, Keeping 9/10
    Evans: Batting 4/10, Keeping 10/10
    Wasim Bari: Batting 1/10, Keeping 9/10
    Dhoni: Batting 8/10, Keeping 8/10
    Gilchrist: Batting 8/10, Keeping 7/10
    Sangakkara: Batting 8.5/10, Keeping 6/10
    Rizwan: Batting 4/10, Keeping 6/10
    Sarfraz: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Watling: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Bairstow: Batting 7/10, Keeping 4/10
    Buttler: Batting 6/10, Keeping 4/10
    Paine: Batting 3/10, Keeping 8/10
    Healy: Batting 3/10, Keeping 9/10
    Pant: Batting 3/10, Keeping 4/10
    Knott: Batting 5/10, Keeping 9/10
    Evans: Batting 4/10, Keeping 10/10
    Wasim Bari: Batting 1/10, Keeping 9/1

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    Dhoni: Batting 8/10, Keeping 8/10
    Gilchrist: Batting 8/10, Keeping 7/10
    Sangakkara: Batting 8.5/10, Keeping 6/10
    Rizwan: Batting 4/10, Keeping 6/10
    Sarfraz: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Watling: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Bairstow: Batting 7/10, Keeping 4/10
    Buttler: Batting 6/10, Keeping 4/10
    Paine: Batting 3/10, Keeping 8/10
    Healy: Batting 3/10, Keeping 9/10
    Pant: Batting 3/10, Keeping 4/10
    Knott: Batting 5/10, Keeping 9/10
    Evans: Batting 4/10, Keeping 10/10
    Wasim Bari: Batting 1/10, Keeping 9/1
    Gilchrist battting >>> MS ‘no SENA centuries’ Dhoni. Gilchrist has match winning knocks in almost every nation. Saying Dhoni is a better keeper is also crap

  39. #39
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    To add, Sanga should be two higher than MS. Putting them the same is huge davouritism

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Gilchrist battting >>> MS ‘no SENA centuries’ Dhoni. Gilchrist has match winning knocks in almost every nation. Saying Dhoni is a better keeper is also crap
    Maybe you are right as far as batting is concerned. So lets make Gilly 8.5 on par with Sanga.

    But I disagree that Gilchrist was better than Dhoni with gloves. MS is much more agile keeper and had better game sense than Gilly had.

  41. #41
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    Gilchrist was a really good keeper. He just happened to be a world class bat as well, the likes of which had not been seen since LEG Ames and arguably before him even.

    It makes me cross to see England trying to make batters like Bairstow into keepers when we have an excellent glove man in Foakes (and he can bat).

    But prior to Gilchrist, England messed up world-class bat Stewart but making him keep because there was no all rounder, wasting a strength to plug a weakness.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Gilchrist was a really good keeper. He just happened to be a world class bat as well, the likes of which had not been seen since LEG Ames and arguably before him even.

    It makes me cross to see England trying to make batters like Bairstow into keepers when we have an excellent glove man in Foakes (and he can bat).

    But prior to Gilchrist, England messed up world-class bat Stewart but making him keep because there was no all rounder, wasting a strength to plug a weakness.
    You right robert, Stewart avged 47 as a batter only and 35 when keeping

    For that era an avge of 47 playing mostly in england conditions was truly a world class effort

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    Maybe you are right as far as batting is concerned. So lets make Gilly 8.5 on par with Sanga.

    But I disagree that Gilchrist was better than Dhoni with gloves. MS is much more agile keeper and had better game sense than Gilly had.
    You are incredibly biased for Dhoni. Gilchrist significantly better keeper. Sangakkara should be a 9 bat, Gilly a 8 .5 and Dhoni a 6.5. He should be above Watling def. His batting is not 3 ranks higher than Knott as well

  44. #44
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    Nice thread. The biggest loss because of this was that a gem like James Foster didnt get a fair chance. In my book he was the best ever wicketkeeper in the history of the game.

  45. #45
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    He hard is wicket keeping as a skill?

    I guess it takes a lot of training and efforts from a young age to become a good natural wicket keepers.

    Also western analysts seem to be biased about what they think makes a good wicket keeper, the guys who dive around taking athletic catches.

    In subcontinent, a keeper has to be particularly good keeping to spin.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    Dhoni: Batting 8/10, Keeping 8/10
    Gilchrist: Batting 8/10, Keeping 7/10
    Sangakkara: Batting 8.5/10, Keeping 6/10
    Rizwan: Batting 4/10, Keeping 6/10
    Sarfraz: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Watling: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Bairstow: Batting 7/10, Keeping 4/10
    Buttler: Batting 6/10, Keeping 4/10
    Paine: Batting 3/10, Keeping 8/10
    Healy: Batting 3/10, Keeping 9/10
    Pant: Batting 3/10, Keeping 4/10
    Knott: Batting 5/10, Keeping 9/10
    Evans: Batting 4/10, Keeping 10/10
    Wasim Bari: Batting 1/10, Keeping 9/1
    AB de Villiers Batting 9/10, keeping 8/10

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I think that Gilchrist and Sangakkara are very, very similar.

    Both are decent but unexceptional wicketkeepers who had a huge batting talent.

    Bairstow and Buttler lack any of their keeping ability, but are excellent batsmen.

    I would actually rank recent keepers as follows in TEST cricket:

    Dhoni: Batting 5/10, Keeping 6/10
    Gilchrist: Batting 7/10, Keeping 7/10
    Sangakkara: Batting 8/10, Keeping 6/10
    Rizwan: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Sarfraz: Batting 3/10, Keeping 7/10
    Watling: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Bairstow: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Buttler: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Paine: Batting 3/10, Keeping 8/10
    Healy: Batting 3/10, Keeping 9/10
    Pant: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Knott: Batting 5/10, Keeping 9/10
    Evans: Batting 4/10, Keeping 10/10
    Wasim Bari: Batting 1/10, Keeping 9/10
    why Rodney Marsh and Syed Kirmani didn't make this list.

    On the other hand this is not a new phenomenon, Knott is always played ahead of Taylor.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    AB de Villiers Batting 9/10, keeping 8/10
    Sanga is a better bat than ABdV tho, and gilly is a better keeper

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I think that Gilchrist and Sangakkara are very, very similar.

    Both are decent but unexceptional wicketkeepers who had a huge batting talent.

    Bairstow and Buttler lack any of their keeping ability, but are excellent batsmen.

    I would actually rank recent keepers as follows in TEST cricket:

    Dhoni: Batting 5/10, Keeping 6/10
    Gilchrist: Batting 7/10, Keeping 7/10
    Sangakkara: Batting 8/10, Keeping 6/10
    Rizwan: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Sarfraz: Batting 3/10, Keeping 7/10
    Watling: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Bairstow: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Buttler: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Paine: Batting 3/10, Keeping 8/10
    Healy: Batting 3/10, Keeping 9/10
    Pant: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Knott: Batting 5/10, Keeping 9/10
    Evans: Batting 4/10, Keeping 10/10
    Wasim Bari: Batting 1/10, Keeping 9/10
    No way on the planet is Sarfraz Ahmed in the same league as a pure keeper as Adam Gilchrist. I'd wager he's at the same level as Bairstow or Buttler.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    No way on the planet is Sarfraz Ahmed in the same league as a pure keeper as Adam Gilchrist. I'd wager he's at the same level as Bairstow or Buttler.
    I actually think that Sarfraz at his peak was a better keeper than Gilchrist.

    Gilchrist was a superb Number 7. And he wasn’t a goalkeeper like Bairstow - he was a proper wicketkeeper, just a very average proper wicketkeeper who happened to be a world class batsman too. A lot like AB De Villiers in that respect.

    But he couldn’t keep to MacGill to save his life. Gilchrist wouldn’t have coped as a keeper in Asia.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    No way on the planet is Sarfraz Ahmed in the same league as a pure keeper as Adam Gilchrist. I'd wager he's at the same level as Bairstow or Buttler.
    My issue with Sarfraz was that he wouldn’t bat properly outside Asia: he just wouldn’t leave balls outside off-stump.

    But as a keeper he was better than Gilchrist.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    My issue with Sarfraz was that he wouldn’t bat properly outside Asia: he just wouldn’t leave balls outside off-stump.

    But as a keeper he was better than Gilchrist.
    Why Sarfaraz in past tense?

  53. #53
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    India once played Deep DasGupta as a keeper because he could bat a bit. Probably the worst ever WK in history of the game.


    Aaj ka kaam kal karo, Kal ka kaam parson. Aisi bhi jaldi kya hai, Jab jeena hai barson.

  54. #54
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    WK's with 1000+ runs and 30+ average
    Highlighted players made test debut before Gilchrist.
    Player Span Mat Runs Avg 100 50
    AB de Villiers (SA) 2004-2015 24 2067 57.41 7 7
    A Flower (ZIM) 1992-2002 55 4404 53.7 12 23
    AC Gilchrist (AUS) 1999-2008 96 5570 47.6 17 26
    LEG Ames (ENG) 1929-1939 44 2387 43.4 8 7
    LD Chandimal (SL) 2011-2017 24 1602 41.07 5 7
    Q de Kock (SA) 2014-2020 45 2884 40.61 5 21
    KC Sangakkara (SL) 2000-2008 48 3117 40.48 7 11
    BJ Watling (NZ) 2012-2020 62 3266 40.32 7 17
    MJ Prior (ENG) 2007-2014 79 4099 40.18 7 28
    DT Lindsay (SA) 1964-1970 15 1000 40 3 4
    MS Dhoni (INDIA) 2005-2014 90 4876 38.09 6 33
    JM Bairstow (ENG) 2013-2019 48 3028 37.85 5 15
    Mushfiqur Rahim (BDESH) 2007-2019 55 3515 37 6 16
    Sarfaraz Ahmed (PAK) 2010-2019 49 2657 36.39 3 18
    AJ Stewart (ENG) 1991-2003 82 4540 34.92 6 23
    BB McCullum (NZ) 2004-2013 52 2803 34.18 5 15
    BJ Haddin (AUS) 2008-2015 66 3266 32.98 4 18
    APE Knott (ENG) 1967-1981 95 4389 32.75 5 30
    JM Parks (ENG) 1960-1968 43 1876 32.34 2 9
    N Dickwella (SL) 2014-2020 36 1915 31.91 0 15
    TD Paine (AUS) 2010-2020 31 1330 31.66 0 7
    PJL Dujon (WI) 1982-1991 79 3146 31.46 5 16
    FM Engineer (INDIA) 1961-1975 46 2611 31.08 2 16
    WP Saha (INDIA) 2012-2019 36 1202 30.82 3 5
    Kamran Akmal (PAK) 2002-2010 53 2648 30.79 6 12
    SO Dowrich (WI) 2016-2019 29 1342 30.5 3 7
    Imtiaz Ahmed (PAK) 1952-1962 38 2010 30.45 3 11
    JHB Waite (SA) 1951-1965 49 2336 30.33 4 16
    MV Boucher (ICC/SA) 1997-2012 147 5515 30.3 5 35
    HB Cameron (SA) 1927-1935 26 1239 30.21 0 10


    Aaj ka kaam kal karo, Kal ka kaam parson. Aisi bhi jaldi kya hai, Jab jeena hai barson.

  55. #55
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    Good point, blame lies with the wider cricket fraternity and selection system. In ODIs and T20s we don't need great keepers because of the nature of the bat-ball contest, we might see maximum 10% balls going to keeper. In tests I still prefer to see a pure keeper even if he gives 20 runs less per innings compared to an inferior keeper but better batsman. 540 balls per day, probably half of them going behind the stumps and where the cost of dropping a Smith or Kohli can't be made up by the keeper's batting, give me a specialist please.

    Pant's keeping is not that bad, only that his competitor is Saha who is IMO the best pure keeper of the last 15-20 years. On his own Pant is better than Dhoni against quicks, inferior against spin (MS was a monster there) and a bit erratic, young blood maybe. He has time to improve and is no Parthiv/Karthik, a good investment by our team management.
    Last edited by Swashbuckler; 2nd June 2020 at 12:29.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I think that Gilchrist and Sangakkara are very, very similar.

    Both are decent but unexceptional wicketkeepers who had a huge batting talent.

    Bairstow and Buttler lack any of their keeping ability, but are excellent batsmen.

    I would actually rank recent keepers as follows in TEST cricket:

    Dhoni: Batting 5/10, Keeping 6/10
    Gilchrist: Batting 7/10, Keeping 7/10
    Sangakkara: Batting 8/10, Keeping 6/10
    Rizwan: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Sarfraz: Batting 3/10, Keeping 7/10
    Watling: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Bairstow: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Buttler: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Paine: Batting 3/10, Keeping 8/10
    Healy: Batting 3/10, Keeping 9/10
    Pant: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Knott: Batting 5/10, Keeping 9/10
    Evans: Batting 4/10, Keeping 10/10
    Wasim Bari: Batting 1/10, Keeping 9/10
    Gilchrist batting is 7 and Rizwan is 6.

    They should not even be that close in terms of batting.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeetu View Post
    India once played Deep DasGupta as a keeper because he could bat a bit. Probably the worst ever WK in history of the game.
    Bat a bit sounds like a huge overstatement

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Gilchrist batting is 7 and Rizwan is 6.

    They should not even be that close in terms of batting.
    Omg

    Didn't notice that, just the part where Rizwan>Dhoni, Pant
    Last edited by Swashbuckler; 2nd June 2020 at 14:26.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I actually think that Sarfraz at his peak was a better keeper than Gilchrist.

    Gilchrist was a superb Number 7. And he wasn’t a goalkeeper like Bairstow - he was a proper wicketkeeper, just a very average proper wicketkeeper who happened to be a world class batsman too. A lot like AB De Villiers in that respect.

    But he couldn’t keep to MacGill to save his life. Gilchrist wouldn’t have coped as a keeper in Asia.
    He kept well to Warne. Machill would be the hardest challenge ever for keepers, spin the ball more than anyone ever and never landed them in the same spot

  60. #60
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    There was an English keeper who kept in Ashes 2005. I thought against pace bowling he was one hell of a catcher. The dude used to take some incredible athletic takes

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    There was an English keeper who kept in Ashes 2005. I thought against pace bowling he was one hell of a catcher. The dude used to take some incredible athletic takes
    Gerant Jones I think? @Robert

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Gilchrist batting is 7 and Rizwan is 6.

    They should not even be that close in terms of batting.
    Rizwan is a terrific batsman.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    Good point, blame lies with the wider cricket fraternity and selection system. In ODIs and T20s we don't need great keepers because of the nature of the bat-ball contest, we might see maximum 10% balls going to keeper. In tests I still prefer to see a pure keeper even if he gives 20 runs less per innings compared to an inferior keeper but better batsman. 540 balls per day, probably half of them going behind the stumps and where the cost of dropping a Smith or Kohli can't be made up by the keeper's batting, give me a specialist please.

    Pant's keeping is not that bad, only that his competitor is Saha who is IMO the best pure keeper of the last 15-20 years. On his own Pant is better than Dhoni against quicks, inferior against spin (MS was a monster there) and a bit erratic, young blood maybe. He has time to improve and is no Parthiv/Karthik, a good investment by our team management.
    KL Rahul is also in the picture now I think as possible wicket keeper batsman.

    In last series, his keeping seemed better than Pant actually. But of course by better I mean he didn't seem to miss the easiest of chances. Pant actually looked good in England and Australia.

    All said let's please stick with Saha in tests

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Rizwan is a terrific batsman.
    Never said he isn't. But only 1 point below Gilly? Your having a laugh.

    Rizwan isn't going to get 17 centuries and average 47 after 96 tests.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    Omg

    Didn't notice that, just the part where Rizwan>Dhoni, Pant
    Junaids is creating a theory of Rizwan being an ATG after 10 games. As soon as he hits 30 he will want him dropped regardless of his performances.

  66. #66
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    It is laughable that Kamraan is being quoted as one of the ‘examples’ of bad keeping but good batting.

    I have asked this question many times but never received an answer.

    In the history of Pakistan cricket, can anyone name a batsman with a worse record to play so many games for us?

    He is the WORST player we’ve ever had. A few good innings but then so did Faisal Iqbal and Imran Fargat etc, only they weren’t given HUNDREDS of international games. Awful batsman and atrocious keeper. Terrible fitness and stinking attitude.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeetu View Post
    WK's with 1000+ runs and 30+ average
    Highlighted players made test debut before Gilchrist.
    Player Span Mat Runs Avg 100 50
    AB de Villiers (SA) 2004-2015 24 2067 57.41 7 7
    A Flower (ZIM) 1992-2002 55 4404 53.7 12 23
    AC Gilchrist (AUS) 1999-2008 96 5570 47.6 17 26
    LEG Ames (ENG) 1929-1939 44 2387 43.4 8 7
    LD Chandimal (SL) 2011-2017 24 1602 41.07 5 7
    Q de Kock (SA) 2014-2020 45 2884 40.61 5 21
    KC Sangakkara (SL) 2000-2008 48 3117 40.48 7 11
    BJ Watling (NZ) 2012-2020 62 3266 40.32 7 17
    MJ Prior (ENG) 2007-2014 79 4099 40.18 7 28
    DT Lindsay (SA) 1964-1970 15 1000 40 3 4
    MS Dhoni (INDIA) 2005-2014 90 4876 38.09 6 33
    JM Bairstow (ENG) 2013-2019 48 3028 37.85 5 15
    Mushfiqur Rahim (BDESH) 2007-2019 55 3515 37 6 16
    Sarfaraz Ahmed (PAK) 2010-2019 49 2657 36.39 3 18
    AJ Stewart (ENG) 1991-2003 82 4540 34.92 6 23
    BB McCullum (NZ) 2004-2013 52 2803 34.18 5 15
    BJ Haddin (AUS) 2008-2015 66 3266 32.98 4 18
    APE Knott (ENG) 1967-1981 95 4389 32.75 5 30
    JM Parks (ENG) 1960-1968 43 1876 32.34 2 9
    N Dickwella (SL) 2014-2020 36 1915 31.91 0 15
    TD Paine (AUS) 2010-2020 31 1330 31.66 0 7
    PJL Dujon (WI) 1982-1991 79 3146 31.46 5 16
    FM Engineer (INDIA) 1961-1975 46 2611 31.08 2 16
    WP Saha (INDIA) 2012-2019 36 1202 30.82 3 5
    Kamran Akmal (PAK) 2002-2010 53 2648 30.79 6 12
    SO Dowrich (WI) 2016-2019 29 1342 30.5 3 7
    Imtiaz Ahmed (PAK) 1952-1962 38 2010 30.45 3 11
    JHB Waite (SA) 1951-1965 49 2336 30.33 4 16
    MV Boucher (ICC/SA) 1997-2012 147 5515 30.3 5 35
    HB Cameron (SA) 1927-1935 26 1239 30.21 0 10
    The great man at the top,no surprises.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum363 View Post
    It is laughable that Kamraan is being quoted as one of the ‘examples’ of bad keeping but good batting.

    I have asked this question many times but never received an answer.

    In the history of Pakistan cricket, can anyone name a batsman with a worse record to play so many games for us?

    He is the WORST player we’ve ever had. A few good innings but then so did Faisal Iqbal and Imran Fargat etc, only they weren’t given HUNDREDS of international games. Awful batsman and atrocious keeper. Terrible fitness and stinking attitude.
    Ygm lol

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    KL Rahul is also in the picture now I think as possible wicket keeper batsman.

    In last series, his keeping seemed better than Pant actually. But of course by better I mean he didn't seem to miss the easiest of chances. Pant actually looked good in England and Australia.

    All said let's please stick with Saha in tests
    I admire Saha, he gets a lot of undeserved flack because of his timid appearance and non-flashy batting but he has been a valuable asset to the team since 2015. I am in favor of Pant because of age, Saha will be 36 this October, had he been 32-33 now my vote would have been for him.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    I admire Saha, he gets a lot of undeserved flack because of his timid appearance and non-flashy batting but he has been a valuable asset to the team since 2015. I am in favor of Pant because of age, Saha will be 36 this October, had he been 32-33 now my vote would have been for him.
    Whaaaaaa!!? I neve realised Saha was 35. God damn it he's old and rather for for his age

  71. #71
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    I understand from where OP is coming and he indeed has a point, but the example isn't appropriate. That guy AG is a bonafide ATG and he was actually the guy who made that Aussie team frightening - still on his own right, a brilliant WK.

    These days, what is happening is that teams are prioritizing batting over keeping skills; which I think is logical as well in LO cricket, but for Test cricket specialist WKs should be picked. At the same time, game is evolving - WK's also have to contribute with bat and nothing wrong in backing a young WK with better batting potential (but inferior keeping skills) than another kid with opposite skill set.

    Saha's case is totally different, because guy is extremely unlucky to be hard done by for an IPL star - he is the best glovesman in India by some margin, probably best since Prassanna Jaya and quite handy with bat as well - averages 30+ in Test career, 3 hundreds and more or less balanced stats both home & away; he should have played many more than his 35 some Tests.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    Dhoni: Batting 8/10, Keeping 8/10
    Gilchrist: Batting 8/10, Keeping 7/10
    Sangakkara: Batting 8.5/10, Keeping 6/10
    Rizwan: Batting 4/10, Keeping 6/10
    Sarfraz: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Watling: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Bairstow: Batting 7/10, Keeping 4/10
    Buttler: Batting 6/10, Keeping 4/10
    Paine: Batting 3/10, Keeping 8/10
    Healy: Batting 3/10, Keeping 9/10
    Pant: Batting 3/10, Keeping 4/10
    Knott: Batting 5/10, Keeping 9/10
    Evans: Batting 4/10, Keeping 10/10
    Wasim Bari: Batting 1/10, Keeping 9/1
    What about Andy Flower?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum363 View Post
    It is laughable that Kamraan is being quoted as one of the ‘examples’ of bad keeping but good batting.

    I have asked this question many times but never received an answer.

    In the history of Pakistan cricket, can anyone name a batsman with a worse record to play so many games for us?

    He is the WORST player we’ve ever had. A few good innings but then so did Faisal Iqbal and Imran Fargat etc, only they weren’t given HUNDREDS of international games. Awful batsman and atrocious keeper. Terrible fitness and stinking attitude.
    And yet we have certain posters (we know who you are and you know who you are) clamouring for his inclusion for what now seems a certain defunct WC T20 2020 squad.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I think that Gilchrist and Sangakkara are very, very similar.

    Both are decent but unexceptional wicketkeepers who had a huge batting talent.

    Bairstow and Buttler lack any of their keeping ability, but are excellent batsmen.

    I would actually rank recent keepers as follows in TEST cricket:

    Dhoni: Batting 5/10, Keeping 6/10
    Gilchrist: Batting 7/10, Keeping 7/10
    Sangakkara: Batting 8/10, Keeping 6/10
    Rizwan: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Sarfraz: Batting 3/10, Keeping 7/10
    Watling: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Bairstow: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Buttler: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Paine: Batting 3/10, Keeping 8/10
    Healy: Batting 3/10, Keeping 9/10
    Pant: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Knott: Batting 5/10, Keeping 9/10
    Evans: Batting 4/10, Keeping 10/10
    Wasim Bari: Batting 1/10, Keeping 9/10
    Have to say, PAK’s WK options are richest in World now - they have a WK- batsman almost as good as Gilly both with gloves and bat (& better gloves man than Dhoni) as their first choice while the reserve one is better WK than MS, at per with Gilly.

    Also, it’s great to see that both Pakistan & Newzeland has identical WK in their possession.

  75. #75
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    Sanga can't be compared to gilly. Neither he batted at #7 nor he kept in most matches. His role wasn't to play attacking cricket with tailenders he had alot time build an innings.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I think that Gilchrist and Sangakkara are very, very similar.

    Both are decent but unexceptional wicketkeepers who had a huge batting talent.

    Bairstow and Buttler lack any of their keeping ability, but are excellent batsmen.

    I would actually rank recent keepers as follows in TEST cricket:

    Dhoni: Batting 5/10, Keeping 6/10
    Gilchrist: Batting 7/10, Keeping 7/10
    Sangakkara: Batting 8/10, Keeping 6/10
    Rizwan: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Sarfraz: Batting 3/10, Keeping 7/10
    Watling: Batting 6/10, Keeping 6/10
    Bairstow: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Buttler: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Paine: Batting 3/10, Keeping 8/10
    Healy: Batting 3/10, Keeping 9/10
    Pant: Batting 5/10, Keeping 4/10
    Knott: Batting 5/10, Keeping 9/10
    Evans: Batting 4/10, Keeping 10/10
    Wasim Bari: Batting 1/10, Keeping 9/10
    Sanga hardly averaged 40 as keeper that too playing risk free cricket in top order. How are you saying he is better batsman than gilly?

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Have to say, PAK’s WK options are richest in World now - they have a WK- batsman almost as good as Gilly both with gloves and bat (& better gloves man than Dhoni) as their first choice while the reserve one is better WK than MS, at per with Gilly.

    Also, it’s great to see that both Pakistan & Newzeland has identical WK in their possession.
    I know you’re joking, but I’d take a 27 year old Rizwan over a 35 year old Watling every single time.

    We saw in Australia that Watling’s batting is in decline against top quality bowling. And he’s always struggled at the very highest level:

    Averages 17.09 in Australia
    Averages 19.83 in India.

    You can have Watling. I’ll take Rizwan!

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Have to say, PAK’s WK options are richest in World now - they have a WK- batsman almost as good as Gilly both with gloves and bat (& better gloves man than Dhoni) as their first choice while the reserve one is better WK than MS, at per with Gilly.

    Also, it’s great to see that both Pakistan & Newzeland has identical WK in their possession.
    What do you think about Pant?
    Do you think he will have a long career at test level.

  79. #79
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    Sarfaraz doesnt need to bat to play for Pak side(There was a thread also, logically explained).

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I know you’re joking, but I’d take a 27 year old Rizwan over a 35 year old Watling every single time.

    We saw in Australia that Watling’s batting is in decline against top quality bowling. And he’s always struggled at the very highest level:

    Averages 17.09 in Australia
    Averages 19.83 in India.

    You can have Watling. I’ll take Rizwan!
    I’ll definitely take Watling, and leave Rizwan for you. One is SAF born cricketer, officially 34, another is Pakistani (Read South Asian) Cricketer, whose certificate tells that he was born 28 years ago almost to this date (01 June). No wonder, you have reduced age gap one year from both sides to make it big - 8 years ....., you ask me, I see max 2/3 years in it - you’ll see also, wait for couple of years once Rizwan reaches 30+, officially.

    And, one averages 38+ after 70 Tests with 8 hundreds (even better as WK - 40+ in 62 Tests & 7 tons) another one 32+, after 6 Tests, with one mighty fifty. I am not even going to respective gloves-work - by your own rating Sarfraz is a better WK than Rizwan, then imagine BJ Watling. I think, now Rizwan’s two Test’s heroics in Australia is selling well, good coverage for his average of 13 in NZ & 17 in PAK (after three Tests against SRL & BD) - I’ll visit this thread, God willing in two years time, to see where his stats stands.


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