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  1. #1
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    6 players (including Hafeez) clear ECB organized Covid-19 tests & have joined Pak squad in Worcs

    Following advice from leading sports science experts and as per the UK government regulations, players who have tested positive during the PCB testing process will be unable to travel on Sunday.

    However, they will be sent to England as soon as their two tests return negative.

    Amongst the four reserves players, who were tested on Wednesday, only Imran Butt has tested positive, while the tests of Bilal Asif, Mohammad Nawaz and Musa Khan were negative.

    Out of the 10 players and one official, who had earlier tested positive during the PCB testing programme, six players have tested negative in the retests. They are: Fakhar Zaman, Mohammad Hasnain, Mohammad Hafeez, Mohammad Rizwan, Shadab Khan and Wahab Riaz.

    Players who have again tested positive are: Haider Ali, Haris Rauf, Kashif Bhatti and Imran Khan, along with Malang Ali (masseur).

    The six players who have now tested negative will undergo third round of testing at some stage next week and if their tests remain negative, then the PCB will make arrangements to send them to England.

    The five players and the masseur, who have are positive, have been advised by the PCB medical panel to observe strict quarantine to protect their families and friends from the contagion. As in the past, the PCB medical panel will provide them complete support and continue to monitor their progress. These players will undergo tests following the completion of the quarantine period and will be sent to England following two negative tests.

    PCB Chief Executive Wasim Khan: “This was a challenging and unprecedented process that we have conducted and I am pleased that following a second round of testing, we are able to confirm 20 players and 11 player support personnel will travel to Manchester on Sunday.

    “Due to the increasing number of national cases and availability of testing labs in some players’ hometowns, I think the PCB medical panel have done a good job to get us through this process. Based on the national spread of players, there were always going to be some logistical challenges; we have taken a number of learnings from the process that we will take forward with us.

    “With the Test series being played first in August, Misbah is satisfied with the group of players that are traveling on Sunday as the focus will be on red-ball preparation. Misbah understands that flexibility and adaptability will be needed with his training and practice schedule while operating under various guidelines.’

    “I want to reassure the players and the official left behind that the PCB will provide them best support and look after them during the quarantine period. It needs to be remembered that these players were asymptomatic, which means their chances of regaining complete fitness are higher and brighter than most. As soon as these players test negative twice through the PCB testing process they will be flown to England to join the squad.

    “I am aware Mohammad Hafeez and Wahab Riaz took personal tests outside of our process prior to the second PCB testing. While their results came up negative, as per the PCB testing programme, they are deemed to have one negative test following a positive test. Therefore, once they are retested and receive a second negative result under the PCB testing programme, they will be available to join the squad in England.

    “Lastly, on behalf of the PCB, I want to once again urge the Pakistan cricket fans and followers to support the government in their fight against coronavirus by strictly following its instructions. Only through taking personal responsibility can we begin to eradicate this virus.”
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 27th June 2020 at 17:21.


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  2. #2
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    What to believe?


    If there is a better batsman than Sachin then he hasn't arrived yet: Viv Richards

  3. #3
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    At different stages of virus progression I think. Same point which I raised in Hafeezís Covid-19 test. Someone can be in his 12th day with when he first tests positive and there is no way to tell how many days someone has been with the virus.

    Hopefully these 6 can get a negative again and other 3 also recover by the next round.

  4. #4
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    Entirely plausible to be clear of the disease between having the two tests, but could also be some false negatives in there. Can't say I'm thrilled about Hafeez being one of the negatives.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    What to believe?
    Thing is when one gets tested positive it doesnt mean he only had one day with the virus. So when the players were tested first nobody could have said how many days they were into the virus progression as none of them had much symptoms.

  6. #6
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    I feel sorry for Haider Ali

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    Entirely plausible to be clear of the disease between having the two tests, but could also be some false negatives in there. Can't say I'm thrilled about Hafeez being one of the negatives.
    That is why second test is needed

  8. #8
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    So Hafeez has the last laugh.

    PCB deserves this humiliation.

    @Rana

  9. #9
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    What about the players who tested negative in the first round of testing? What happened to their second tests? Were they all negative again?

  10. #10
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    The level of ignorance that some so-called doctors have exhibited on this forum is baffling.

    It is hard to understand how you guys managed to get your license in the West and are actually allowed to work with COVID patients.

    No wonder the death rate is so high if this is how you guys operate.

    It is clear to me that your knowledge, first hand experience and the understanding of gap between theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge are woefully inadequate.

    You have blind faith in theoretical protocol and make sweeping statements.

    I work with nurses who are more knowledgeable and have the capacity to keep an open mind which is essential in this field.

    None of you guys will be allowed to work in any government hospital in Pakistan.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    So Hafeez has the last laugh.

    PCB deserves this humiliation.

    @Rana
    Please educate yourself on how the test works.

    Hafeez was positive and could still be until the second PCB test. What did was not just wrong, it was downright pathetic. The only thing that stunt proved was how ignorant he is.

    PCB has handled this whole scenario as well as they could have.
    Last edited by Arsal_AK; 27th June 2020 at 17:48.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    So Hafeez has the last laugh.

    PCB deserves this humiliation.

    @Rana
    Im not sure what your stance is, do you now trust the PCB's Test?

  13. #13
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    No matter what, Hafeez has tested Positive for being a selfish old man.

    At least Miandad was an ATG who was clinging on until 2006, and Misbah was averaging 40+ in ODIs and near 50 in Tests.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The level of ignorance that some so-called doctors have exhibited on this forum is baffling.

    It is hard to understand how you guys managed to get your license in the West and are actually allowed to work with COVID patients.

    No wonder the death rate is so high if this is how you guys operate.

    It is clear to me that your knowledge, first hand experience and the understanding of gap between theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge are woefully inadequate.

    You have blind faith in theoretical protocol and make sweeping statements.

    I work with nurses who are more knowledgeable and have the capacity to keep an open mind which is essential in this field.

    None of you guys will be allowed to work in any government hospital in Pakistan.
    How many people who test positive for COVID-19 are false positive?


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  15. #15
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    I donít want to hear any further mediocre arguments by people with inadequate knowledge and who think the human body comes with a user manual and that there is no possibility of a false positive result.

    Please do not try to Ďeducateí me. I am already educated beyond your capacity.

    PCB conducted two botched tests with the same sample and declared Hafeez positive twice when he never had COVID.

    End of story.

  16. #16
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    An absolute mess of a situation.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    How many people who test positive for COVID-19 are false positive?
    The chances of false positive are low. They are not zero.

    Earlier this month, more than 20 people produced false positive results in Taunton UK and it was down to machine error.

    When such mass-scale testing happens as is the case in this pandemic, the probability of machine error also increases.

    In plan English, the test compares the genetic material in the same with the genetic material of COVID. This detection process is not 100% accurate.

    The number of false positive results are higher than people think, and the extent can only be realized once a patient tries to challenge the result.

    The vast majority of people do not challenge the results and they accept the notion that they are asymptomatic.

    There is a great chance that a good number of asymptomatic people have produced false positive results.

    If every single person around the world decides to challenge the results unless they have clear symptoms, the number of false positive tests will rise.

  18. #18
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    False positive results have been reported in the U.S. as well, and the patients came back with a negative result after getting tested with a new sample within an hour.

    But leave it to PP WebMD experts to tell you that you can only have a positive result if there are traces of COVID in your body.

    One can only laugh at this assertion.

  19. #19
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    The idea that you cannot have false positive result is a theoretical assertion, not a practical one. Theoretical assertion doesnít account for errors.

    That is why people here are adamant that there is no possibility of false positive results. These people are either non-doctors who only have access to theoretical knowledge found on the internet, or they are doctors with woefully inadequate practical, first-hand experience.

  20. #20
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    Not questioning the accuracy of these tests, but seems a coincidence that all the Ďfirst choiceí players like Hafeez, Wahab get negatives and the young kids who many of us looked forward to seeing but we all know most likely Misbah would have left then on the bench are the ones who are positive.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    PCB conducted two botched tests with the same sample and declared Hafeez positive twice when he never had COVID.
    There was only one test with the first sample and PCB declared him positive. The second sample was done by the lab of its own accord and a media outlet reported it. PCB didn't.

    Hafeez and the five others who tested negative today still can't travel with the squad. "Hiding" the results would have served no purpose because people would have known which players tested positive based on the squad traveling to England.

    Please do not try to ‘educate’ me. I am already educated beyond your capacity.
    OK sir


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  22. #22
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    Hafeez clearly did not isolate himself from his family after the PCB test and none of his family members have experienced symptoms.

    Furthermore, the chances of his entirely family being asymptomatic are unlikely, which means that it is a reasonable conclusion to assert that Hafeez produced a false positive result through the sample PCB collected from him for the first test and which was reused for the second test.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    There was only one test with the first sample and PCB declared him positive. The second sample was done by the lab of its own accord and a media outlet reported it. PCB didn't.

    Hafeez and the five others who tested negative today still can't travel with the squad. "Hiding" the results would have served no purpose because people would have known which players tested positive based on the squad traveling to England.



    OK sir
    The PCB conducted two tests with the same sample. After Hafeez got his own private test done, they used the same sample for the second test and said he was positive and that the PCB testing protocols are authentic.

    The PCB messed up and obviously tried to hide face.

  24. #24
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    Wasim Khan has stated that 9 of the 10 players who initially tested positive had anti-bodies.

    Wonder who the one person was who didn't.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sher Khan View Post
    The PCB conducted two tests with the same sample. After Hafeez got his own private test done, they used the same sample for the second test and said he was positive and that the PCB testing protocols are authentic.

    The PCB messed up and obviously tried to hide face.
    Please read the report again.

    ============

    Lahore: Veteran all-rounder Mohammad Hafeez has once again tested positive after the laboratory which is linked with the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) decided to retest his first sample, ARY News reported.

    According to sources, the professor tested positive and the laboratory management has informed PCB about the second report.

    We decided to retest the sample to maintain the credibility of the laboratory,” said laboratory official.

    “Hafeez’s act has raised questions on the testing process of Pakistan,” official added.

    ============

    The lab did the test of its own accord. PCB had nothing to do with it and didn't comment on its outcome.


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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Wasim Khan has stated that 9 of the 10 players who initially tested positive had anti-bodies.

    Wonder who the one person was who didn't.
    Probably one from the people who still are positive. Antibodies develop later.

    So Hafeez most probably is positive for antibodies, meaning he had the virus.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The level of ignorance that some so-called doctors have exhibited on this forum is baffling.

    It is hard to understand how you guys managed to get your license in the West and are actually allowed to work with COVID patients.

    No wonder the death rate is so high if this is how you guys operate.

    It is clear to me that your knowledge, first hand experience and the understanding of gap between theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge are woefully inadequate.

    You have blind faith in theoretical protocol and make sweeping statements.

    I work with nurses who are more knowledgeable and have the capacity to keep an open mind which is essential in this field.

    None of you guys will be allowed to work in any government hospital in Pakistan.
    Chalo o chal phai, we all know the repute of Western doctors and Asian doctors. Stop discrediting our doctors, they are competent, hard working and humane.

  28. #28
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    Where are they who want hafeez to be jailed now ask for Fine to PCB or wasim khan.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by the eslah View Post
    Where are they who want hafeez to be jailed now ask for Fine to PCB or wasim khan.
    Either way he shouldn't have gone against the pcb decision

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I donít want to hear any further mediocre arguments by people with inadequate knowledge and who think the human body comes with a user manual and that there is no possibility of a false positive result.

    Please do not try to Ďeducateí me. I am already educated beyond your capacity.

    PCB conducted two botched tests with the same sample and declared Hafeez positive twice when he never had COVID.

    End of story.
    Sorry, but you clearly donít understand what is going on.

    There are three reasons why a person under 40 years of age may test negative after originally testing positive.

    Reason 1 is statistically 90% likely to be the case, and is that the first test took place late in the 10 day period of infection, and detected the infection just before antibodies cleared it from the body.

    Reason 2 is that the first test was a False Positive, and the second test was a True Negative, and there is a 0.01% chance of this happening. So this is roughly 1% likely to have happened with Hafeez or the others.

    Reason 3 is that the first test was a True Positive and the second was a False Negative, with is 30% likely to happen.

    You are seeing incompetence and failure where there is none.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by the eslah View Post
    Where are they who want hafeez to be jailed now ask for Fine to PCB or wasim khan.
    Right here.

    What he did was reckless and stupid.

    All that has happened is that he tested positive late in his infection, which then cleared.

    He knew only that he had tested positive. To leave quarantine and take his family with him was outrageously selfish and reckless. I donít believe in imprisoning people who act like that during a pandemic, I believe in shooting them.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Hafeez clearly did not isolate himself from his family after the PCB test and none of his family members have experienced symptoms.

    Furthermore, the chances of his entirely family being asymptomatic are unlikely, which means that it is a reasonable conclusion to assert that Hafeez produced a false positive result through the sample PCB collected from him for the first test and which was reused for the second test.
    I wonder what has happened, is everything okay?

    Itís no secret that you often go against the popular opinion - but you have always been someone who backs up your opinions with sound logic and are willing to engage in discussion with anyone who challenges you. However your recent posts are completely unlike this. They seem to be having a few fixed agendas - ie criticise Imran Khan and Wasim Khan no matter what the news - and then you desperately try and fit your narrative to support that.

    Anyone with a medical background such as yours knows that the most likely reason for whatís taken place is that Hafeez was at the end of infection during the initial test and so had subsequently cleared it. However his actions were incredibly unprofessional. There is a small likelihood of a mistake but that could happen anywhere in the world. Itís certainly not PCBs fault.

    You instead are focussing on why the PCB released the names of the players. As if it would be possible to keep something like that secret with the Pakistan media and secondly as if they could just casually announce that only 20 members of the squad are going to England tomorrow.

  33. #33
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    For once I agree with inzamam
    To announce a 34 man squad undermines the players resolve to stay negative immediately
    To then test them the way they have and already send in reinforcements again undermines the players ambition to become negative
    The whole operation has been a shambles


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

  34. #34
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    I have been on this forum for almost 11 years now (previously as a lurker). Never have I seen posters support PCB to this extent. If these tests were conducted a few years ago, most wouldn't have fully trusted the results - because of PCB administering the whole thing.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    I have been on this forum for almost 11 years now (previously as a lurker). Never have I seen posters support PCB to this extent. If these tests were conducted a few years ago, most wouldn't have fully trusted the results - because of PCB administering the whole thing.
    Right, so PCB is getting do number ki kits according to you?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The chances of false positive are low. They are not zero.

    Earlier this month, more than 20 people produced false positive results in Taunton UK and it was down to machine error.

    When such mass-scale testing happens as is the case in this pandemic, the probability of machine error also increases.

    In plan English, the test compares the genetic material in the same with the genetic material of COVID. This detection process is not 100% accurate.

    The number of false positive results are higher than people think, and the extent can only be realized once a patient tries to challenge the result.

    The vast majority of people do not challenge the results and they accept the notion that they are asymptomatic.

    There is a great chance that a good number of asymptomatic people have produced false positive results.

    If every single person around the world decides to challenge the results unless they have clear symptoms, the number of false positive tests will rise.
    Almost a third of the players and staff tested were COVID positive.
    They claim to be asymptomatic and were surprised by the results.
    A few of them had private testing by Laboratories of unknown ability and quality. In my opinion that is true for the testing conducted by the PCB also, unless there is further explanation of methodology by the laboratory employed by the PCB. It is obvious that there is a conflict in the results. How can one be sure of who is correct. It is very unlikely that they spontaneously reverted to being negative in a few days. It would be interesting if those who tested positive by the PCB now are negative on testing by the same laboratory.
    I feel that the testing is suspect and not validated. There are many variables in the testing that can result in false results if the process is not standardized and meticulously monitored!

  37. #37
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    How can you come to the conclusion " that he tested positive late in his infection, which then cleared."If a third of those tested are truly positive, what does it tell us about the prevalence of disease in the general population. This is a scary thought . Even if 1% ( I am being extremely conservative in my estimation) of the population harbors the COVID 19 virus that is 2200000 people . The mortality is anywhere from 2-10%. If we go with the lower number of 2%, it calculates a total of almost 45,000 deaths . I fear that the numbers are actually much higher. The mortality in the US is over 120,000. The lesson is to standardize testing, wear masks, social distance and contact tracing. There are more serious issues at stake than a few players testing positive. Pakistan cannot afford a Health crises of this magnitude. It has a rudimentary Health care system that is dysfunctional at best. Please focus on the fundamentals of preventing spread and you have to be confident of the integrity of the testing process. From what I have seen so far I have no confidence in the testing .

  38. #38
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    @zamana
    The infection rate of 30% in the squad is a clear indicator that that is the approximate infection rate in Pakistan.

    There have obviously been tens of thousands of Coronavirus deaths in Pakistan but a combination of non-existent testing and there being nothing unusual about premature deaths in the country means that the deaths have been obscured.

    I would add too that thereís another issue: the cohort of low social class 80+ year olds who live in nursing homes in the west mainly died years earlier in urban areas of Pakistan.

    The risk now is to the parents and aunts and uncles and grandparents of the asymptomatic players like Hafeez and Imran who tested positive. Those players caught the virus by not exercising adequate precautions in a pandemic, and are likely to have infected vulnerable older relatives.

    Whether the virus was acquired in England or Pakistan, the risk of death or disability was never for the players. It was for older relatives, but also older members of the entourage such as Mushtaq, Waqar, Younis and Misbah.

    The physical fitness of Misbah and Waqar and Younis is partially protective, but is outweighed by their ethnicity and age. While Mushtaq is in a pretty high risk category due to his age, race and BMI.
    Last edited by Junaids; 28th June 2020 at 12:08.

  39. #39
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    COVID 19 can have a fulminant and progressive course in some cases. It is scary and lonely as those who are sick in the hospital are in isolation and have minimal contact with the outside world. It is an undesirable position to be in. It is also an expensive proposition. People have to take it very seriously as a struggling country cannot afford it! I just saw a selfie of the players in the plane without any of the protective measures. Have they assumed that a solitary negative test has obviated the need for prophylaxis. What are the SOPs ? They seem to be in a bubble of their own creation.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Sorry, but you clearly don’t understand what is going on.

    There are three reasons why a person under 40 years of age may test negative after originally testing positive.

    Reason 1 is statistically 90% likely to be the case, and is that the first test took place late in the 10 day period of infection, and detected the infection just before antibodies cleared it from the body.

    Reason 2 is that the first test was a False Positive, and the second test was a True Negative, and there is a 0.01% chance of this happening. So this is roughly 1% likely to have happened with Hafeez or the others.

    Reason 3 is that the first test was a True Positive and the second was a False Negative, with is 30% likely to happen.

    You are seeing incompetence and failure where there is none.
    Do these data you've offered (per centages, below 40 years etc) have a source?


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryin Out Loud View Post
    Do these data you've offered (per centages, below 40 years etc) have a source?
    Itís based on:

    1. 10 out of 29 testing positive.
    2. The internationally-accepted Coronavirus Testing False Positive Rate of 0.01% and False Negative rate of 30%.

    The under 40 issue is that Hafeez is officially 39 years of age, and almost 99% of males under 40 who are not overweight have few or no symptoms - just like him.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by zamana View Post
    COVID 19 can have a fulminant and progressive course in some cases.

    It is also an expensive proposition. People have to take it very seriously as a struggling country cannot afford it! .
    In every income bracket there are countries which have kept the virus at bay using centuries-old and cheap strategies (closed borders, quarantine and isolation of positive cases, lockdown). Those countries are back to normal activity - including sport.

    And there are other countries which chose not to close borders, isolate and lock down, citing economic harm. And they have had more deaths, more economic damage, and canít return to normal sport

    Successes:
    Rich - Australia, NZ, Israel, Taiwan
    Medium - Costa Rica, Uruguay, China
    Poor - Vietnam

    Failures:
    Rich: USA, UK
    Medium: Brazil, Russia
    Poor: Pakistan

    Even poor countries like Vietnam have prevailed by closing their borders and quarantining all cases in camps (not at home).

    The strange thing about the upcoming tour is that England and Pakistan are both Failed States in terms of Coronavirus, which have done much worse than other countries with similar geography and wealth.

    And itís funny when the British are treated on this forum as professionals or experts in terms of managing the virus, when they and their trans-Atlantic cousins are the laughing stock of the advanced world in terms of Coronavirus. Pakistan touring England during the Coronavirus pandemic is like a Dumb and Dumber remake.

    Which means that this series may well still end up as a farce. I wouldnít trust the players, administrators or the British government to maintain a Biosecure bubble any more than I would trust a chimpanzee. Letís just hope it will be a farce and not a tragedy.
    Last edited by Junaids; 28th June 2020 at 13:17.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Itís based on:

    1. 10 out of 29 testing positive.

    2. The internationally-accepted Coronavirus Testing False Positive Rate of 0.01% and False Negative rate of 30%.

    The under 40 issue is that Hafeez is officially 39 years of age, and almost 99% of males under 40 who are not overweight have few or no symptoms - just like him.
    I'm not sure how assumption # 1 (90% likely because 10/29 tested positiuve) necessarily follows from that data.

    #2 and #3, Interesting, didn't know that. But it seems to me (quick check, I could be wrong) that we need to refine what you said,

    Because, as you outlined them, #2 and #3 come as a multiplication of probabilities because the 2 events happened in succession.. Thus

    # 2 - false positive % X true negative % = 0.01% X71% = 0.71%

    # 3 True Positive % X False negative=. 99.99% X 29% = around 29%

    So not too far from what you said (3 especially). But I'm still not sure how #1 stands alone as a statement.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by zamana View Post
    Almost a third of the players and staff tested were COVID positive.
    They claim to be asymptomatic and were surprised by the results.
    A few of them had private testing by Laboratories of unknown ability and quality. In my opinion that is true for the testing conducted by the PCB also, unless there is further explanation of methodology by the laboratory employed by the PCB. It is obvious that there is a conflict in the results. How can one be sure of who is correct. It is very unlikely that they spontaneously reverted to being negative in a few days. It would be interesting if those who tested positive by the PCB now are negative on testing by the same laboratory.
    I feel that the testing is suspect and not validated. There are many variables in the testing that can result in false results if the process is not standardized and meticulously monitored!
    I will tell you what the problem is. For the first time, or perhaps in a very long time, doctors are getting attention. Unfortunately, some of these doctors are now milking it.

    They are all promoting themselves as COVID experts and then you have non-doctors who are also over excited and making blanket statements because they have read on google and other websites like WebMD that it is impossible to have a false positive result, because apparently, they do not seem to understand that errors happen.

    The problem with these western doctors is that they have blind faith in the system. That is what they have been taught in medical school. As a result, they cannot handle when the unexpected happens.

    In spite of the fact that false positive results have been reported in UK, USA, Japan and several other countries, they continue to be in deal because they have learned that theoretically, you can only be positive if you have the virus inside you. That is not the case, because you can still be declared positive if the detection is faulty.

    Thousands of people around the world have been declared as asymptomatic and they have accepted the results with closed eyes. These people have been told that their entire families are positive but somehow, the entire household has no symptoms whatsoever.

    The more people challenge the system, the more false positive cases will emerge.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum363 View Post
    I wonder what has happened, is everything okay?

    Itís no secret that you often go against the popular opinion - but you have always been someone who backs up your opinions with sound logic and are willing to engage in discussion with anyone who challenges you. However your recent posts are completely unlike this. They seem to be having a few fixed agendas - ie criticise Imran Khan and Wasim Khan no matter what the news - and then you desperately try and fit your narrative to support that.

    Anyone with a medical background such as yours knows that the most likely reason for whatís taken place is that Hafeez was at the end of infection during the initial test and so had subsequently cleared it. However his actions were incredibly unprofessional. There is a small likelihood of a mistake but that could happen anywhere in the world. Itís certainly not PCBs fault.

    You instead are focussing on why the PCB released the names of the players. As if it would be possible to keep something like that secret with the Pakistan media and secondly as if they could just casually announce that only 20 members of the squad are going to England tomorrow.
    Hafeez was asymptomatic, he didnít isolate himself from his family and none of his family members developed any symptoms.

    This story that Hafeez was at the end of this infection and thus got a negative result is incorrect. The test is designed to detect even the slightest of traces of the virus, so if there is no malfunction and you are positive, you virus will be detected even if you are in the latter stages.

    Considering the fact that Hafeez tested negatively immediately after the PCB test, he didnít isolate himself and none of his family members tested positive, there is a very high chance that the mistake happened on PCBís part.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    This story that Hafeez was at the end of this infection and thus got a negative result is incorrect. The test is designed to detect even the slightest of traces of the virus, so if there is no malfunction and you are positive, you virus will be detected even if you are in the latter stages.
    Amazing, so an infinite loop? If Hafeez had the virus asymptomatically he would never test negative ever in his life?

  47. #47
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    Youíre trolling yourself at this point haha

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Amazing, so an infinite loop? If Hafeez had the virus asymptomatically he would never test negative ever in his life?
    Hafeez tested positive in the PCB Test and then tested negative in the test conducted by Chughtai labs which was conducted almost immediately after Hafeez got the results of the first test and was declared positive.

    Could the Chughtai labs have produced a false negative result? Certainly, but Hafeez did not isolate himself from his family and none of his family members caught the virus.

    This is how the false positive cases were determined in the UK, USA and Japan. Entire families tested positive but not a single member had symptoms. In some cases, people were tested again within 30 mins and gave negative results.

    COVID transmission is very aggressive. If a positive person does not isolate himself, he/she will surely infect others around him unless they are wearing full PPE kits which people donít wear at home.

    If even a single member of Hafeezís family would have tested positive, it would have validated PCBís results, but that isnít the case.

    In summary: Hafeez does not have symptoms, Hafeezís family members do not have symptoms, Hafeez did not test positive in the Chughtai lab tests, Hafeez did not test positive in the new test conducted by PCB.

    The issue is clearly with the first test that PCB conducted due to which they threw him under the bus and informed the whole country that he had COVID.

    PCB should have conducted multiple tests with different samples before publicizing the names.

  49. #49
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    @Mamoon
    Hafeez and everyone else was tested with the same level of rigour and privacy used in English football and both Australian football codes.

    We all agree that the PCB is hopeless, but in this case they have acted perfectly. Itís a miracle!

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Hafeez tested positive in the PCB Test and then tested negative in the test conducted by Chughtai labs which was conducted almost immediately after Hafeez got the results of the first test and was declared positive.

    Could the Chughtai labs have produced a false negative result? Certainly, but Hafeez did not isolate himself from his family and none of his family members caught the virus.

    This is how the false positive cases were determined in the UK, USA and Japan. Entire families tested positive but not a single member had symptoms. In some cases, people were tested again within 30 mins and gave negative results.

    COVID transmission is very aggressive. If a positive person does not isolate himself, he/she will surely infect others around him unless they are wearing full PPE kits which people donít wear at home.

    If even a single member of Hafeezís family would have tested positive, it would have validated PCBís results, but that isnít the case.

    In summary: Hafeez does not have symptoms, Hafeezís family members do not have symptoms, Hafeez did not test positive in the Chughtai lab tests, Hafeez did not test positive in the new test conducted by PCB.

    The issue is clearly with the first test that PCB conducted due to which they threw him under the bus and informed the whole country that he had COVID.

    PCB should have conducted multiple tests with different samples before publicizing the names.

    I fear that either the initial testing conducted by the PCB (which tested 10 positive cases) or the subsequent test which showed some of them being negative was flawed! They cannot both be true. The virus will not spontaneous dissipate in such a short interval.

  51. #51
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    It's a huge error margin, 6 out of 10. However I have heard big problems with false negatives in this tests. Some are reporting 20-30% rate. While false positive is lower, we can't rule that out either. It might have been a problem with the actual people hired to tests. There's so many factors really and I don't think these covid tests are incredibly reliable based on the false negative percentages and should not be used to clear people to travel to other countries.

    I'm not surprised by Hafeez's actions, it seems something he would do if he got a bad result from testing. He was previously upset being excluded from Australia by PCB saying he had an injury when Hafeez claimed he had not.

    What is more clear to me is that whether it was 4 cases, or 10 cases, I would never want to travel. You are bringing a squad which may carry covid to another country. UK and Pakistan both don't have a good handle on covid (UK even more so), and it's not the time to have an international tour. Let alone if actual squad members are infected. Delay the tour.

    If sports fixtures are to be played at this present time it should be domestic with no fans. Not between countries, we need to control the spread.

  52. #52
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    I will say of the PCB what Bismarck said of Spain.

    They are the strongest cricket board because they have been trying for decades to self-destruct and yet, they remain standing.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The level of ignorance that some so-called doctors have exhibited on this forum is baffling.

    It is hard to understand how you guys managed to get your license in the West and are actually allowed to work with COVID patients.

    No wonder the death rate is so high if this is how you guys operate.

    It is clear to me that your knowledge, first hand experience and the understanding of gap between theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge are woefully inadequate.

    You have blind faith in theoretical protocol and make sweeping statements.

    I work with nurses who are more knowledgeable and have the capacity to keep an open mind which is essential in this field.

    None of you guys will be allowed to work in any government hospital in Pakistan.
    Sorry to say you have no idea how PCR works.

    Yes there are false positives but they are few in between.

    But to say that most people test false positives is laughable.

    You have no clue how RT-PCR works, about the false positive, false negative, sensitivity, specificity and positive and negative predictive values.

    None at all.
    Last edited by MenInG; 5th July 2020 at 12:33.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    Sorry to say you have no idea how PCR works.

    Yes there are false positives but they are few in between.

    But to say that most people test false positives is laughable.

    You have no clue how RT-PCR works, about the false positive, false negative, sensitivity, specificity and positive and negative predictive values.

    None at all.
    Yes it is laughable, I agree. But where did you infer that? I clearly did not say that most people are false positive.

    My point is that false positive cases happen. The chances of it happening are not 0 as some people here claim.

    It is in fact more common than people think (which is not the same as most people testing false positive). There is a distinction between the two statements.

    The only way false positives cases are determined is if asymptomatic people challenge the result and get themselves tested again immediately.

    But most people do not do that and accept that they are asymptomatic.

    So you are essentially saying the same thing. There are false positives but they are not common.

    That is contrary to what the WebMD and Google experts here claim. They think false positives are as unlikely as the sun rising from the west.
    Last edited by MenInG; 5th July 2020 at 12:33.

  55. #55
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    Six players eligible to join side in Worcester following second negative Covid-19 test

    Fakhar Zaman, Mohammad Hasnain, Mohammad Hafeez, Mohammad Rizwan, Shadab Khan and Wahab Riaz have tested negative for Covid-19 for the second time in three days and, as such, are now eligible to join the Pakistan men’s national cricket team in Worcestershire.

    The players were retested on Monday, 29 June, following a first negative test on 26 June.

    The PCB will now start making their travel arrangements and the departure details will be shared in due course.


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  56. #56
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    Good news. Will allow there to be enough players to easily play practice games amongst themselves. Also means Rizwan will likely play as first choice keeper.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Six players eligible to join side in Worcester following second negative Covid-19 test

    Fakhar Zaman, Mohammad Hasnain, Mohammad Hafeez, Mohammad Rizwan, Shadab Khan and Wahab Riaz have tested negative for Covid-19 for the second time in three days and, as such, are now eligible to join the Pakistan men’s national cricket team in Worcestershire.

    The players were retested on Monday, 29 June, following a first negative test on 26 June.

    The PCB will now start making their travel arrangements and the departure details will be shared in due course.
    If the PCB had timed the tests correctly, the second negative would have come back in time for all 6 players to travel with the rest of the team on the charter plane. As it happens, the PCB somehow managed to get its timing wrong, leaving a farcical situation where these players are now ready to travel, one day after their charter plane departed.

    Now these players will travel on a commercial airline where other passengers will not have been tested for Covid and therefore there is a real risk they could catch Covid again on the way to the UK.

    Hopefully they will all arrive in the UK safe and sound.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman View Post
    If the PCB had timed the tests correctly, the second negative would have come back in time for all 6 players to travel with the rest of the team on the charter plane. As it happens, the PCB somehow managed to get its timing wrong, leaving a farcical situation where these players are now ready to travel, one day after their charter plane departed.

    Now these players will travel on a commercial airline where other passengers will not have been tested for Covid and therefore there is a real risk they could catch Covid again on the way to the UK.

    Hopefully they will all arrive in the UK safe and sound.
    Lmao. It's not PCBs fault, they have to follow protocol on when to test, it isn't about timing or whatever the hell your saying. Quit your whining and complaining about everything. This is beyond PCB control.

  59. #59
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    Things looking brighter. Almost a full squad now, started practising today as well.

    More recruits on the way.
    Last edited by Saj; 30th June 2020 at 23:35.



  60. #60
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    Don't like this. I would still have them self isolate and wait 2 weeks

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoaibbtt View Post
    Don't like this. I would still have them self isolate and wait 2 weeks
    They won't be allowed to train with the team till the ECB organised test comes back negative. That'll basically be 3 negative tests in a row. Sounds pretty convincing to me

  62. #62
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    The second group of six Pakistan cricketers will depart for Manchester on Friday, 3 July, by the national carrier. The players who will travel by the Pakistan International Airlines are: Fakhar Zaman, Mohammad Hasnain, Mohammad Hafeez, Mohammad Rizwan, Shadab Khan and Wahab Riaz.

    From Manchester, the six players will be transported to Worcester and will integrate with the side after they test negative in the ECB testing programme.


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  63. #63
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    What is the update on haider ali .Can he make it to squad before test series?

  64. #64
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    Dont think he will play the test matches anyways

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    What is the update on haider ali .Can he make it to squad before test series?
    He's having another test in 4 days.



  66. #66
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    I wonder what PCB's game plan is if these players test positive in England?

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by sshakir411 View Post
    I wonder what PCB's game plan is if these players test positive in England?
    They won't be mixing with the players already there before they test negative in England. If they test positive they will either remain in isolation or be sent back to Pakistan I presume

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    They won't be mixing with the players already there before they test negative in England. If they test positive they will either remain in isolation or be sent back to Pakistan I presume
    I hope so. Would be an embarrassing situation if the players who tested positive the first then negative twice en up testing positive in England.

  69. #69
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    The second group of Pakistan cricketers departs for Manchester.

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    Last edited by MenInG; 3rd July 2020 at 02:35.


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  70. #70
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    Infuriating to see Hafeez arrogantly sitting there like heís a king.

    He should have been dropped after his antics. Put the whole tour at risk for his ego.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum363 View Post
    Infuriating to see Hafeez arrogantly sitting there like he’s a king.

    He should have been dropped after his antics. Put the whole tour at risk for his ego.
    Agreed, the way he's posing in that photo is cringe worthy and is a reflection of his arrogance.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    I never claimed I am a spokesperson.

    But in your 3 lines you just did.

    So the irony of your remark is on you.
    Nope, again you're mistaken with your diagnosis as per usual.

  73. #73
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    Mohammad Hasnain is looking pretty lean and fit. Good to see him working hard on fitness, just need to keep on working hard on his bowling as well.

  74. #74
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    Last edited by Abdullah719; 3rd July 2020 at 21:51.

  75. #75
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    Last edited by MenInG; 5th July 2020 at 00:06.


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  76. #76
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    Guys less of personal insults and more facts please.


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