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  1. #1
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    Who were the best of the SENAW pacers in Asia?

    Curlly did talk to man, but he also only took 18 test wickets in Asia at a mediocre SR of 53!

    To put things in perspective, Mohammad Shami's SR here is 41. Only Waqar has a better SR than Shami in Asia. Thats how good Shami is over here.


    The 3 stand out pacers in Asia based on what i saw growing up as a cricket fan were :-

    1. Allan Donald - Just unplayable at peak during early 1990s. Have never seen a bowler generate that much pace off the wicket in Asia.

    2. Dale Steyn - Bowled his heart out and dominated quality batting line-ups of India, Pakistan.

    3. Courtney Walsh - Relentless and skillful


    Honorable mentions to McGrath who was a poor man's Courtney Walsh, to Shaun Pollock who was an even poorer man's Courtney Walsh, Darren Gough, who was a fighter to the core for Nasser Hussein's England

    Thats about it!!

    Really, thats about it.

    That's pretty much all that the poor SENAW, with their 200+ fast bowlers have top show for in #AsianBloc, the grave yard of fast bowlers.

    Would have to go way to find some performers in Asia, but given the quality of batting in SENAS as an overall 8 men unit was not up to modern day standards, i would take statistics of older generation SENAW fast bowlers in #AsianBloc with a pinch of salt. Having said that, Denniss Lillee is still a nobody in this part of the world.
    Last edited by freelance_cricketer; 29th June 2020 at 22:21.

  2. #2
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    Where are the two greatest fast bowlers in 150 years of cricket history?

    Malcolm Marshall

    Sir Richard Hadlee

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Where are the two greatest fast bowlers in 150 years of cricket history?

    Malcolm Marshall

    Sir Richard Hadlee
    I mentioned the bowlers i saw live brother.

    Both the legends you.mentioned obviously are up there, even though they played much inferior #AsianBloc batting line-ups.

  4. #4
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    I'd go with Steyn and Mcgrath. Top bowlers in Asia.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  5. #5
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    Jason Holder. Averages 17 in Asia with an economy of 2.2 and he's just entering his peak years. Yet to see any Subcontinent spinner with figures half as good as these in SENAW.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Jason Holder. Averages 17 in Asia with an economy of 2.2 and he's just entering his peak years. Yet to see any Subcontinent spinner with figures half as good as these in SENAW.
    Yes but it means nothing because West Indies have only managed a series win against Afghanistan and that too was a one-off test. Among other Asian sides they won one test against Pakistan. Lost both to Sri Lanka and only played a single test against India which Windies lost badly

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Jason Holder. Averages 17 in Asia with an economy of 2.2 and he's just entering his peak years. Yet to see any Subcontinent spinner with figures half as good as these in SENAW.
    An honest trier.

    But he's as good as the figure suggest. Saurav Ganguly bowled faster than him in his prime.

  8. #8
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    Dale Steyn.

    He has to be the best in Asia (from SENA countries).
    Last edited by sweep_shot; 30th June 2020 at 01:41.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  9. #9
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    Steyn for me stands-out because he has played the most Test matches in Asia among these bowlers and has a pretty outstanding average. What's more he was the biggest reason South Africa drew in India at a time when India was practically unbeatable at home. He won them a series in Sri Lanka. Was amazing in Pakistan during one of his early tours (another series win) and I'm guessing he has amazing numbers in Bangladesh too.

    Donald has not played that many matches in Asia so he should not even be in the cut. Walsh for me was and always will be one of the most overrated bowlers of all-time. Another James Anderson. Despite having good numbers in India and Pakistan he could never lead the Windies to a series win in either country.

    A case could be made for McGrath but his numbers in Pakistan are not that great and he hasn't played as many matches as Steyn who has done something substantial in every Asian country.
    Last edited by RedwoodOriginal; 30th June 2020 at 01:49.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    I mentioned the bowlers i saw live brother.

    Both the legends you.mentioned obviously are up there, even though they played much inferior #AsianBloc batting line-ups.
    much inferior wut. Marshall is the goat, ripped a strong Indian batting line-up to shreds. Amarnath, Vengsarkar and Gavaskar all class, especially in India. Obvs the Pak lineup was also very strong with Saleem Malik, Miandad, Nazar, Abbas and Majid Khan all playing against Marshall. The 80's is probably the main decade where both Ind and Pak had decent batting averages

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    An honest trier.

    But he's as good as the figure suggest. Saurav Ganguly bowled faster than him in his prime.
    going to assume you made a typo their with the latter part ("he's as good...")
    Pace is just about the least important attribute for a fast bowler. Bounce and control are probably the most important, and Holder has those in spades. Countless bowlers like McGrath, Ambrose, Garner etc have proved that it is not necessary to have shear pace when bounce and control is present, and Holder does that better than anyone else in the world at the moment

  12. #12
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    For me the top two are Marshall and Steyn, due to how they ripped through the batting lineups. Hadlee would be nezt, as well as Walsh, Hall, Davo, Donald, McGrath being very hard to split

  13. #13
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    Min 20 wickets and average under 30
    Player Span Mat Wkts Ave SR 5W 10W
    DR Hadlee (NZ) 1969-1969 6 21 15.9 46.3 0 0
    R Gilchrist (WI) 1958-1959 4 26 16.11 45.7 1 0
    AK Davidson (AUS) 1956-1960 10 44 17.86 58.8 2 1
    JO Holder (WI) 2015-2019 7 22 17.95 47.6 2 0
    BN Schultz (SA) 1993-1997 4 21 18.28 39.7 2 0
    GD McKenzie (AUS) 1964-1969 9 42 18.71 55 4 1
    WW Hall (WI) 1958-1967 11 54 20.05 43.9 3 1
    AA Donald (SA) 1993-2000 9 36 20.33 48.5 1 0
    CA Walsh (WI) 1986-1997 17 77 20.53 45.2 5 0
    BR Taylor (NZ) 1965-1969 9 30 21.03 47.7 2 0
    AME Roberts (WI) 1974-1983 9 49 21.53 47 4 1
    Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ) 1976-1988 13 68 21.58 42.7 5 2
    MA Holding (WI) 1983-1983 6 30 22.1 44.7 1 0
    JJC Lawson (WI) 2002-2005 6 26 22.15 42.7 1 0
    AN Connolly (AUS) 1964-1969 7 23 22.39 68.7 0 0
    JK Lever (ENG) 1976-1981 11 41 22.58 52.1 3 1
    D Gough (ENG) 2000-2001 6 24 22.58 43.2 0 0
    NA Foster (ENG) 1984-1987 6 27 22.96 47.3 3 1
    GD McGrath (AUS) 1994-2004 19 72 23.02 54.8 1 0
    MD Marshall (WI) 1978-1990 19 71 23.05 48.7 3 0
    SM Pollock (SA) 1997-2006 17 60 23.18 56.8 2 0
    RGD Willis (ENG) 1976-1984 15 44 23.22 53.1 2 0
    JN Gillespie (AUS) 1999-2006 14 54 23.75 51 1 0
    DW Steyn (SA) 2006-2018 22 92 24.11 42.9 5 1
    TG Southee (NZ) 2010-2019 11 40 25.12 55.9 2 0
    IR Bishop (WI) 1990-1997 6 20 26.3 51.9 1 0
    IT Botham (ENG) 1980-1984 9 35 26.31 59 3 1
    BA Stokes (ENG) 2015-2018 13 29 26.48 52.7 1 0
    ST Clarke (WI) 1978-1981 9 35 27.22 56.8 1 0
    RR Lindwall (AUS) 1956-1960 8 22 27.59 81.3 1 0
    BP Patterson (WI) 1986-1988 5 20 27.85 44.4 2 0
    MA Starc (AUS) 2013-2018 10 37 27.94 49.2 3 1
    MJ Hoggard (ENG) 2001-2007 14 50 28.22 59.2 1 0
    G Dymock (AUS) 1979-1980 8 25 28.36 63.2 2 1
    CM Old (ENG) 1972-1977 10 26 28.88 65.6 0 0
    SJ Harmison (ENG) 2003-2008 9 33 29.27 62.3 1 0
    A Flintoff (ENG) 2001-2008 14 46 29.58 67.5 0 0


    Aaj ka kaam kal karo, Kal ka kaam parson. Aisi bhi jaldi kya hai, Jab jeena hai barson.

  14. #14
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    Styen played 22 tests in #AsianBloc. Huge respect to him. Without a doubt, South Africa's 2nd greatest bowler ever just ahead of Proctor, Pollock

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Styen played 22 tests in #AsianBloc. Huge respect to him. Without a doubt, South Africa's 2nd greatest bowler ever just ahead of Proctor, Pollock
    What does Donald have that he doesn't

  16. #16
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    Sir Richard Hadlee in India in 1988-89, aged 37.

    18 wickets in 3 Tests at an average of 14.00.

  17. #17
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    Thereís three; Hadlee, Marshall, and Walsh.

  18. #18
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    From the stats it's definitely Hadlee. Insane stats. Also Walse has great stats.Mcgrath & Marshal has identical average wih marshal having couple of more 5 wicket hauls with a lower SR. Obviously I've watched Steyn, who was just breath-taking.
    The three best I've seen are
    1. Steyn
    2. Mcgrath(Mcgrath was great in India but strangely wasn't that good in Pakistan)
    3. Gillespie (He was truly amazing in that 04 India tour)

  19. #19
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    Bob Willis did surprisingly well in Asia.

  20. #20
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    Malcolm Marshall took 33 wickets in 6 tests in 1983 in India - best performance by any pace bowler in Asia in 1 series

    Overall best - Dale Steyn. His 10 wicket haul against India at Nagpur 2010 on a flat pitch was legendary ( probably with some help of zipper given how the bowl started reversing )

  21. #21
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    As I say again, Stuart Broad remains the greatest SENAW bowler of all-time in my opinion. The bloke is about to get to 600 test wickets now and he can actually take wickets not just with Duke bowl unlike one of his contemporary.

    A true icon of the game and the best ever England test bowler in their long history of 150 years.

  22. #22
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    I actually doubt steyn's best spells in india. SA surely tampered with condition of ball which helped him to gain reverse swing. He ran away on 2015 tour and retired just before indian tour of 2019. Donald hasn't faced best india batting lineup (under ganguly's captaincy till 2004/05) & same goes for walsh.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    What does Donald have that he doesn't
    Slightly inferior skill set and longevity

    Whereas a limping Donald made Australia bend the knee in 1999 world cup, Steyn was a nobody once his peak ended. Still a legendary test bowler. Like I said, 2nd best ever from.South Africa which is a huge achievement given Polly and Procty are also up there.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam99 View Post
    Donald hasn't faced best india batting lineup (under ganguly's captaincy till 2004/05) & same goes for walsh.
    Trust me, most Indians are glad Indian batting peak did not come face to face to peak Donald.

  25. #25
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    Curtly, Lillee just skipped playing in the subcontinent

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Trust me, most Indians are glad Indian batting peak did not come face to face to peak Donald.
    India did play peak Donald in 1997. Sachin & Azhar blasted him all over Cape Town in an epic batting performance. Also Dravid scored 148 in next test at Wanderers

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam99 View Post
    I actually doubt steyn's best spells in india. SA surely tampered with condition of ball which helped him to gain reverse swing. He ran away on 2015 tour and retired just before indian tour of 2019. Donald hasn't faced best india batting lineup (under ganguly's captaincy till 2004/05) & same goes for walsh.
    To be fair he also skittled India for 76 in first innings in 2008 tour at Ahmedabad ! Lowest total by India in first innings in my living memory

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Slightly inferior skill set and longevity

    Whereas a limping Donald made Australia bend the knee in 1999 world cup, Steyn was a nobody once his peak ended. Still a legendary test bowler. Like I said, 2nd best ever from.South Africa which is a huge achievement given Polly and Procty are also up there.
    Steyn was fantastic until the age of 33/34 (2016). Donald was fantastic until 2000, also 33/34
    Longevity isn't a point. Steyn did better in an age of flatter pitches. Donald was also comparatively average against the top test side of his time

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Trust me, most Indians are glad Indian batting peak did not come face to face to peak Donald.
    That answer doesn't have anything to do with the question. It is a fact that Donald didn't play the peak lineup of Sehwag, Dravid, Tendu, VVS, Ganguly

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Trust me, most Indians are glad Indian batting peak did not come face to face to peak Donald.
    Lol bring peak donald today on indian pitches and i will bet on even rohit & kl rahul scoring double tons on indian pitches against him.

  31. #31
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    Not Donald but peak Stuart Broad will wrek havoc and retire a couple of Indians who are 30+.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Steyn was fantastic until the age of 33/34 (2016). Donald was fantastic until 2000, also 33/34
    Longevity isn't a point. Steyn did better in an age of flatter pitches. Donald was also comparatively average against the top test side of his time
    Alan Donald is very over rated. He was fire and brimstone against weaker opposition but allways looked tame when he came under pressure.He lacked mental toughness. One reason he never delivered against Australia or in crunch matches like World Cup

    Dale steyn won 2 series against Australia on their own turf

  33. #33
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    Actually, there's no such thing as a peak Indian batting in India for most of the cricket played here since the dawn of the 1990s.

    Sidhu, Manjrekar, Azhauddin, Kambli, Kapil, Prabhakar etc made a very decent home batting line up for us in early 1990s and by mid 1990s, Ganguly and Dravid had already arrived.

    Most of the posters clearly did not watch peak Donald bowl in India in early 1990s. There's never been a better sight than that as far as fast bowling is concerned.


    Phainty here and there in one odd game should not count.

    Random fact, Curtly's overall
    test bowling average vs India is 38+. In 9 tests , Ambrose played against India he has less than 20 wickets.

    Also Steyn was part of the bowling line ups who suffered phainty in Sri Lanka (600+partnership, Mahela 374) and vs India when Sehwag blasted a 300. I think Gayle also has a triple vs Steyn.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by NishanKonar View Post
    Alan Donald is very over rated. He was fire and brimstone against weaker opposition but allways looked tame when he came under pressure.He lacked mental toughness. One reason he never delivered against Australia or in crunch matches like World Cup

    Dale steyn won 2 series against Australia on their own turf
    Which world cup did you watch. Donald had Australia on the matt in 1999 wc semi final. That was on the verge of retirement Allan Donald..

    You sure you didn't mistake him for Andrew Hall during this whole discussion?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Which world cup did you watch. Donald had Australia on the matt in 1999 wc semi final. That was on the verge of retirement Allan Donald..

    You sure you didn't mistake him for Andrew Hall during this whole discussion?
    He retired like 2 years later, thatís not on the verge of retirement

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    He retired like 2 years later, thatís not on the verge of retirement
    Major point to address there was about performance. Donald had figures of 32/4 in the same match where McGrath got taken apart.

    Steyn isn't half the ODI bowler Donald was.


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