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  1. #1
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    "A cricketer’s life is very short; the five year gap did a lot of damage to my body" : Mohammad Amir

    Watched this very good interview where Mushtaq Ahmed interviews Amir.
    The part where he explains the test retirement between 44 and 56 minutes is particularly interesting with all the criticism he got after it. Listening to this makes me wonder whether this was another case of player mismanagement?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RffHaZy2NSc

    I've done my best to write out his quotes on test retirement but it may be a little too detailed:

    “A cricketer’s life is very short, especially a fast bowler’s career and the 5 year gap did a lot of damage to my body. I couldn’t play club cricket or use the pcb’s facilities. My body just sorta shut down.”

    “When I returned in 2015, I played regularly in the 2015-2018 period without any training or practise, I had only played 4 first class matches before my comeback and 3 or 4 grade 2 matches, that after a gap of 5 years returning to international cricket in 3 formats.”

    “In 2018 from what I remember there was a survey that Rabada played around 30 matches and bowled around 600-650 overs, I played 24 matches and bowled 550 overs across all formats. I started getting niggles in my body, sometimes my shoulder - even today if you ask our phsio Cliffey that in 2018 England test series I was at top of the list of treatments (highest no. of treatements) ,my shoulder was sore, my right ITB and right side of my back.”

    “Because my workload had increased so much, I talked about managing it properly and playing selective matches with Mickey Arthur and he has admitted it himself that he was being selfish. Mickey has said that if he didn’t have good communication with Amir, then I would’ve already taken this step before in 2017 with the condition my body was in. “

    “I told Mickey this is my condition and you guys aren’t able to manage me properly so i will quit from one format. He said the World Cup is coming up and we’ll look into it later. What happened then was my body was in fatigue and physically and mentally I was getting finished. In Asia Cup i couldn’t perform properly and as a result I was dropped for the Australia test series even though in the last test series I was the top bowler in England and Ireland. I couldn’t perform with the white ball so they dropped me with the red ball also.”

    “I then went back to the drawing board again played 4 first class matches and got 24 wickets and I was named for the test series in South Africa. There i played the practise match, all 3 tests, 2-3 ODI’s and T20’s and after that my shoulder said that’s enough and I was getting pain in different parts of my shoulder and my ITB was getting released everyday and I was getting that sorted from Cliffey (physio) daily.”

    “With all this effect on my body the result was that I was dropped from the World Cup, it obviously had to effect my performance as my body wasn’t supporting me and mentally I was falling, my swing and pace were getting lost. You can ask Cliffey (physio) that I got treated the most by him in 2018. In the 2nd test in Headingley, I left the field due to my shoulder injury. If one person hasn’t played cricket in 5 years and then played regular for 3 years and 28/29 is my age now and being a fast bowler somewhere down the line, I had to think that i’m starting to get dropped, my swing is getting lost and pace is decreasing and that there had to be a reason for it and there had to be a way out.”

    “In those 5 years and then 3 years, I never got time to recover and build my body. It’s everyone’s dream to represent their country in the World Cup, if Wasim Akram, you (Mushtaq Ahmed) and Imran khan, etc. get recognition that’s for the 92 world cup. It’s a dream for anyone that if they succeed in the World Cup, people remember it for a lifetime. If people remember the Champions Trophy final it’s only because it’s like the World Cup, otherwise I had other good spells that nobody remembers like the CT final.”

    “The World Cup axe was a big blow for me and I thought I’ve now gotten to a stage where I’m dying to play the tournament and I’m getting dropped so I had to decide about my cricket and how I can keep myself at the top level for the next 5/6 years. Playing is not an issue but staying at the top is and that’s a big challenge. Playing it’s no good if i perform in 1 match out of 3. Where Allah has given one respect they should maintain it, if he made me a good bowler I should stay at that standard and not be like others being happy getting the odd wicket bowling at 130. If I do that it means i’m not able to express my qualities, I know i can bowl 140 but i’m not able to do it so I have to find a way out.”

    “In the first World Cup match against the West Indies, I played with a spasm and you can ask Cliffey about this. (Pointing to his left collar bone) I couldn’t see my collar bone and I had taken 3 pain killers the night before and another 3 in the morning and my shoulder was taped. When bowled the first ball of the match I was screaming on the inside with the pain that’s how much pain I was in. Others wouldn’t have heard the screaming but I was the one who cried. During the World Cup I had told Mickey I am retiring from tests and I will announce it because I need time to build my body and as long as I play the longer format, my body won’t get time to recover because I need a break to build it.”

    “As a fast bowler I know that I only have 5/6 years of cricket and I don’t want to waste it in a year and I’ll be finished if I play all 3 formats and my back or shoulder can be finished at any time. Mickey was happy and said I’m with you and then when I announced it after the World Cup I know people only got angry as they love me. They want me to play because they love me.”

    (On the County Cricket First Class matches):
    “I’ll make it clear that I only played because that was signed as part of my contract beforehand. People don’t know what happens behind the scenes. My counter question to people criticising my decision is do they want to see me play for a year or for 7 years
    I know that if i play 3 formats especially test cricket, my body won’t let it happen. My body was so broken that people on social media started saying Amir’s swing is gone and pace is low and he’s not getting rhythm. So they should know Amir is not a machine and human and there has to be a reason that the pace fell, swing got lost and I wasn’t getting rhythm. I came back after a 5 year gap and I don’t want my career finished in 2 years.”

    “Whatever format I play in I wear the Pakistan flag on my chest, white ball or red ball. If I take 500 wickets in ODI’s and T20’s what’s the problem with it? And then people think that I did this to play leagues, tell me when have I said that I don’t want to play for Pakistan and let me play a league instead. We are only allowed to play 2-3 leagues in our contracts and even that when not on international duty. Most intl cricket is white ball cricket so when will I go to play leagues. The 2/3 leagues I play, all players play it Pakistanis as well as from other nations. If i just wanted to play leagues I would’ve quit ODI’s as well and then the criticism would’ve been justified. I didn’t do that as I want to play for Pakistan and I don’t get the same enjoyment out of taking wickets in league cricket.”

  2. #2
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    Thanks for the quotes @kirkut fan.


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  3. #3
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    Fair enough Amir

    He made the right decision. He has got the swing back in the recent PSL
    Last edited by shah_1; 21st July 2020 at 21:45.

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    The reasons seem fine but I think what has annoyed the fans is the lack of humility. I understand that he wouldnt want to reminisce on such a bad memory but the 5 years 'gap' was fully self inflicted.

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    Fair enough.

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    Amazing that he has to explain the obvious.

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    Overloading him, poor Amir has to bear all this. I have wrote in the past and writing it again, PCB have to set certain number of overs per season for fast bowlers just like ECB. Amir we are sorry #MohammadZahid

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    The arguments are:

    5 years away from cricket did a lot of damage to his body

    Or

    5 years away from cricket meant that he has actually had 5 years rest from cricket

    Tough to call. The medics will probably know best.
    Last edited by Saj; 21st July 2020 at 22:35.



  9. #9
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    The issue here is that after 5 years and what the pcb did for him it just didnt seem like he did his absolute utmost in coming to some sort of arrangement so he could play all formats for pakistan

    True we dont know what was going on with the chats back stage and all his fitness and injury issues but from the outside it just felt as tho he couldve done a lot more before he came to such a final decision
    Last edited by Zaz; 21st July 2020 at 22:29.

  10. #10
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    The hate he gets is ridiculous. Despite the 5 years ban, he’s been the best bowler we’ve had over the last 15 years.

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    PCB made a mistake by playing Amir in all formats after his return. Should have looked after him.

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    I understand Amir, but they could have handled it better. Why quit tests all together? Could have played selectively on wickets that suit him (outside Asia).

    Same goes for the ODI/T20 games. He could have ignored less important games as Pak plays a lot of minnows in these formats.

    Why couldn't it be managed this way? Just poor communication between Amir and the board (or selector). Or maybe he does prefer the limited overs formats? I don't know and it remains a pity.

    People would have understood and would have been happy seeing Amir play the more important games across the formats. That way he could have achieved his dream to be remembered for the more important games.
    Last edited by Prince of Pakistan; 21st July 2020 at 22:48.


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    I feel that the change in management around the time he announced his retirement made the decision seem more selfish than it was. While Mickey probably would've backed him publicly, Waqar termed his retirement a 'dhoka' if I remember correctly and even today mentioned how much the decision hurt at the time.
    Misbah was also concerned about the example quitting test cricket sets for youngsters and that was why Amir missed out on the Bangladesh T20 series as well as a central contract. Whether he was overloaded or didn't give it enough effort, I'm convinced that he didn't do it for financial reasons anyway

    Hope he actually sits down and discuss this with management if he hasn't already and Mushy can play a key role having conducted this interview.
    Now that he's had a long break hope they try to convince him to play maybe 2nd or 3rd test as a one-off to surprise England and also as a way of resting Naseem if needed without compromising on wicket taking ability.
    Last edited by kirkut fan; 21st July 2020 at 22:49.

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    The World Cup axe was a big blow for me and I thought I’ve now gotten to a stage where I’m dying to play the tournament and I’m getting dropped so I had to decide about my cricket
    This is the key quote.

    He obviously thought that by playing all 3 formats he was risking his entire career after being dropped for the World Cup.



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    To put things in perspective, Amir played 10 test matches in his comeback year between mid July and December. That is damn too much for a bowler on his return after 5 years. Seems like the team management didnt give a toss:


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Good work OP.
    Thanks Saj, just felt more people needed to hear his perspective after the stick he's been getting here as well as by the media

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    The arguments are:

    5 years away from cricket did a lot of damage to his body

    Or

    5 years away from cricket meant that he has actually had 5 years rest from cricket

    Tough to call. The medics will probably know best.
    A lot of it depends on what he did during those 5 years. If he didn't do any form of training, then it was unrealistic to expect him just to come straight back to international cricket in all 3 formats. PCB should've had a plan, maybe just limited overs cricket for a year and build up to longer formats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkut fan View Post
    I feel that the change in management around the time he announced his retirement made the decision seem more selfish than it was. While Mickey probably would've backed him publicly, Waqar termed his retirement a 'dhoka' if I remember correctly and even today mentioned how much the decision hurt at the time.
    Misbah was also concerned about the example quitting test cricket sets for youngsters and that was why Amir missed out on the Bangladesh T20 series as well as a central contract. Whether he was overloaded or didn't give it enough effort, I'm convinced that he didn't do it for financial reasons anyway

    Hope he actually sits down and discuss this with management if he hasn't already and Mushy can play a key role having conducted this interview.
    Now that he's had a long break hope they try to convince him to play maybe 2nd or 3rd test as a one-off to surprise England and also as a way of resting Naseem if needed without compromising on wicket taking ability.
    You'll need a pro-active Misbah for that. At the moment it seems that Misbah has moved on. But the fact remains that Abbas, Naseem and Shaheen can't play all tests in a year so you need at the least five bowlers. Need Amir to play a few tests outside Asia to balance it out.

    Misbah has to show some man management skills here ala Zidane and talk to Amir about his future and how they both can get the best out of the situation.

    Look if Amir says he doesn't care about Test cricket then that's it. Game over. But from his interview it seems like he did enjoy Tests and panicked after being dropped from the WC which made him think about his bowling performances.


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  20. #20
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    There definitely seems to have been massive communication gaps since amir re entry

    Initially amir is obviously keen to get back in asap and quietly goes about playing all the games he can from 2015 onwards

    Then down the line issues start and they arent discussed properly and a clear plan isnt laid out In that time arthur leaves and the new coaches misbah and waqar arent privy to the ongoing issues and discussions and feel betrayed

    This all couldve been handled a lot better and cleanly if the relevant people just talked to each other properly


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    So Mickey Arther and Inzi didnt manage the workload particularly well? He came back in 2016 and then regularly started playing every format till 2019 under Mickey. Anybody remember when Mickey played Amir and full strength team vs Zimbabwe in 2018? Workload management wasnt a strength of Mickey by the looks of it.

    As per Amir: “ with Mickey Arthur and he has admitted it himself that he was being selfish”.

    Now you dont want to hear that from a bowler or any coach. There can always be a conflict of interest when coach’s career is at stake he can overburden his star players so that there is a more chance of team performing well.

    I think there should be an impartial medical professional or physiotherapist assigned by PCB with in the team who develops a threshold for workload so that coaches cant push their players to their bodily limits for the sake of their careers.

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    Everything aside, its now upto Amir if he wants to discuss anything with the management regarding test cricket. Workload management is not rocket science, if Amir wants to play tests definitely a better communication can be formed with new management and if he doesnt want to play test at all or he thinks his body wimply cant take it then thats another matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    So Mickey Arther and Inzi didnt manage the workload particularly well? He came back in 2016 and then regularly started playing every format till 2019 under Mickey. Anybody remember when Mickey played Amir and full strength team vs Zimbabwe in 2018? Workload management wasnt a strength of Mickey by the looks of it.

    As per Amir: “ with Mickey Arthur and he has admitted it himself that he was being selfish”.

    Now you dont want to hear that from a bowler or any coach. There can always be a conflict of interest when coach’s career is at stake he can overburden his star players so that there is a more chance of team performing well.

    I think there should be an impartial medical professional or physiotherapist assigned by PCB with in the team who develops a threshold for workload so that coaches cant push their players to their bodily limits for the sake of their careers.
    Quotes from Mickey Arthur previously to back this up:

    “Amir spoke to me about it and he kept me in the loop on his decision. We discussed it many times. But maybe I was too hard on him playing him in every Test I could. I could see he was losing his hunger for Test cricket and his body was not able to handle the pressure of three formats.”

    “I loved Amir because of his ability to bowl and his ability to win games. I played Amir in every test I possibly could and that was selfish from me as a coach because I pushed him through a lot.”

    "Amir is a top class bowler and a match-winner. I love to watch him bowl. But by deciding to leave Test cricket I think he has given himself a chance of extending his white ball career.”

  24. #24
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    Obviously a fast bowler knows his own body, but still, Misbah ul-Haq is being whiny and petty when referring to Wahab and Amir's retirements.

    Pakistan's coach and chief selector has to open his eyes for once because at the moment, not only is he treating their best bowler (Amir) poorly, he is also playing Shaheen and Naseem Shah way too often.


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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkut fan View Post
    “I loved Amir because of his ability to bowl and his ability to win games. I played Amir in every test I possibly could and that was selfish from me as a coach because I pushed him through a lot.”
    Thanks for sharing.

    What can I say.. wow just wow. Not sure what Mickey was trying to achieve here. Every coach wants to form a winning team but that shouldnt be done at the expense of the careers of players. Its not the first time such thing has happened but I expected more professionalism and modern techniques of workload management from Mickey rather then this.

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    This also begs the question, was he pushed too far too quickly after his return to international cricket?



  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Thanks for sharing.

    What can I say.. wow just wow. Not sure what Mickey was trying to achieve here. Every coach wants to form a winning team but that shouldnt be done at the expense of the careers of players. Its not the first time such thing has happened but I expected more professionalism and modern techniques of workload management from Mickey rather then this.
    This is a Pakistani problem.

    Shoaib Akhtar, Umar Gul, Junaid Khan, Mohammad Amir, Hasan Ali, these guys are Pakistan's best fast bowlers in the past 15 years and all of them could have been better had it not been due to injuries.

    Other countries (especially AUS. and S.A.) manage their bowler's workloads better.

    Heck, Pakistani doctors nearly ended Haris Sohail who is a batsman.

    The workload management and medical staff along with the selectors, have to do a better job with this. Nowadays, most top countries have a similar level of talent and as the recent WC showed, luck matters a lot. When players are similar in skill level, whichever team manages them better will win.


    "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." --Aristotle

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    Workload management is becoming more and more important in all sports now, as teams play more often.

    This is a huge problem in soccer. Who are the best players? Messi and Ronaldo. And these guys play every game despite being in their mid 30s. Messi is very carefully managed by Barca yet even he has started to get injured now due to age and the sheer volume of matches played. Ronaldo is arguably the best athlete in the world and spends billions of dollars on just maintaining his body. Otherwise he would not survive.

    Now what is wrong with the young players who were supposed to replace them? Gareth Bale, Eden Hazard, Neymar, etc. All of these guys struggle big time with injuries.

    This has been going on in the NBA as well. A few years back Gregg Popovich got fined for resting his players when they were perfectly healthy. His team when on to win the championship against a limping Dwyane Wade and a cramped LeBron James in the Finals. After that Golden State dominated the playoffs for a few years mainly because they stayed healthy. But last year all of their games took a toll as Durant tore his Achilles and Thompson tore his ACL. Who beat them? Kawhi Leonard and the Raptors. Kawhi is the new king in the NBA and he is known for missing games. He barely played half of the season and then annihilated every team in the playoffs. He left his former team because they did not manage his injuries correctly. That year LeBron got injured too and this current season he is sitting on the bench a lot in preparation for the games that matter more.

    The point is that you do not play your players in meaningless games. Coaches and management have to listen to the guys who know their bodies best.


    "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." --Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    The arguments are:

    5 years away from cricket did a lot of damage to his body

    Or

    5 years away from cricket meant that he has actually had 5 years rest from cricket

    Tough to call. The medics will probably know best.
    It should be the later. It can be argued the 5 year break saved him from potential career threatening injury as fast bowler's bodies and bones are weak from 19 to early 20's. Look at Pat Cummins, he had so many back injuries in his early 20's but now he is able to bowl loads and loads of overs without injuries.

    Amir's lack of strength and conditioning is his own fault. It was his responsibility to fill up and become stronger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    This is a Pakistani problem.

    Shoaib Akhtar, Umar Gul, Junaid Khan, Mohammad Amir, Hasan Ali, these guys are Pakistan's best fast bowlers in the past 15 years and all of them could have been better had it not been due to injuries.

    Other countries (especially AUS. and S.A.) manage their bowler's workloads better.

    Heck, Pakistani doctors nearly ended Haris Sohail who is a batsman.

    The workload management and medical staff along with the selectors, have to do a better job with this. Nowadays, most top countries have a similar level of talent and as the recent WC showed, luck matters a lot. When players are similar in skill level, whichever team manages them better will win.
    Agreed. I was just surprised that Mickey went with the historical culture of Pakistan cricket rather than using modern ways of workload management. If it would have been a Pakistani coach we could have said that they dont have much exposure of how workload management is done in other countries however, Mickey has coached SA and even Aus though it was a short stint.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    This is a Pakistani problem.

    Shoaib Akhtar, Umar Gul, Junaid Khan, Mohammad Amir, Hasan Ali, these guys are Pakistan's best fast bowlers in the past 15 years and all of them could have been better had it not been due to injuries.

    Other countries (especially AUS. and S.A.) manage their bowler's workloads better.

    Heck, Pakistani doctors nearly ended Haris Sohail who is a batsman.

    The workload management and medical staff along with the selectors, have to do a better job with this. Nowadays, most top countries have a similar level of talent and as the recent WC showed, luck matters a lot. When players are similar in skill level, whichever team manages them better will win.
    Workload management goes out of the window when you have people like Wasim, Waqar going about their golden days and how they just kept bowling more and more and that is the only way you get stronger

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    The period of rest these days athletes get is considered a blessing as a way to rebuild their body and keep it strong. If he didn't look after his body in those 5 years, it was his fault. You don't get to work out and build your body on tours, it's the time in between the tours you do that. He even got a relaxation in his ban as he was allowed to return 6 months earlier to domestic cricket before his ban ended, and even when it ended, he was not picked for 3-4 months after that. Should have used it to his advantage. But I guess it's life, and you usually realize it after wasting the opportunity.

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    Mohammad Amir losing 5 years of his career was his fault, he made an appalling error of judgment and was very naive. However since his return he kept his nose clean and helped Pakistan win its first ICC 50 over trophy since 1992.

    Fast bowling is something the body becomes calloused to. You need to be using those bowling muscles on a regular basis. During his ban, Amir was not able to even play club matches, let alone domestic cricket. If you're not using those bowling muscles for 5 years - then it's extremely difficult for the body to withstand the rigours of an international schedule.

    Therefore it was imperative Pakistan managed his workload to ensure his fitness. From what Amir is saying, he repeatedly relayed his concerns to management about featuring in all three formats. Mickey Arthur and Inzamam-ul-Haq understandably were reluctant to bench a bowler who's stepped up in big occasions. However they should've rested him for low-key series such as Zimbabwe, and the occasional UAE series.

    So Amir decided, rightly or wrongly, to preserve his international career he needed to retire from Tests. I'd prefer if he continued playing Tests, but of course the white ball formats are more lucrative. Nevertheless, Amir knows his body better than anyone - and is a better white ball bowler anyway.

    Now Amir's concerns weren't new. There were reports after the 2017 CT about workload management. However Misbah and Waqar upon their appointment in September didn't bother to ask Mickey or Amir about these previous conversations, behaved like jilted lovers terming Amir's statement a "dhoka", and even lied about the timing complaining it came right before the Australia series - actually he announced it in JULY BEFORE Misbah/Waqar's appointment.

    Misbah and Waqar had two months to find a replacement. Their answer was Musa Khan and Imran Khan. They further lashed out at Amir, dropping him from a central contract claiming he was a white ball player only. Yet Imad Wasim, while not formally retired from Test cricket, is primarily a white ball player and was given Category C contract despite being perenially unfit. Amir then was dropped for the Bangladesh T20 series despite being Pakistan's LEADING wicket-taker in T20s since start of 2018. Yet useless Musa found a place in the squad.

    So Amir has every right to be aggrieved at the whispering campaign led by Misbah and Waqar about his commitment. It seems Misbah and Waqar failed to communicate with Amir, and have pursued a policy of liking and disliking, of pursuing grudges instead of Pakistan's interests. Now you see why Pakistani coaches are toxic.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Mohammad Amir losing 5 years of his career was his fault, he made an appalling error of judgment and was very naive. However since his return he kept his nose clean and helped Pakistan win its first ICC 50 over trophy since 1992.

    Fast bowling is something the body becomes calloused to. You need to be using those bowling muscles on a regular basis. During his ban, Amir was not able to even play club matches, let alone domestic cricket. If you're not using those bowling muscles for 5 years - then it's extremely difficult for the body to withstand the rigours of an international schedule.

    Therefore it was imperative Pakistan managed his workload to ensure his fitness. From what Amir is saying, he repeatedly relayed his concerns to management about featuring in all three formats. Mickey Arthur and Inzamam-ul-Haq understandably were reluctant to bench a bowler who's stepped up in big occasions. However they should've rested him for low-key series such as Zimbabwe, and the occasional UAE series.

    So Amir decided, rightly or wrongly, to preserve his international career he needed to retire from Tests. I'd prefer if he continued playing Tests, but of course the white ball formats are more lucrative. Nevertheless, Amir knows his body better than anyone - and is a better white ball bowler anyway.

    Now Amir's concerns weren't new. There were reports after the 2017 CT about workload management. However Misbah and Waqar upon their appointment in September didn't bother to ask Mickey or Amir about these previous conversations, behaved like jilted lovers terming Amir's statement a "dhoka", and even lied about the timing complaining it came right before the Australia series - actually he announced it in JULY BEFORE Misbah/Waqar's appointment.

    Misbah and Waqar had two months to find a replacement. Their answer was Musa Khan and Imran Khan. They further lashed out at Amir, dropping him from a central contract claiming he was a white ball player only. Yet Imad Wasim, while not formally retired from Test cricket, is primarily a white ball player and was given Category C contract despite being perenially unfit. Amir then was dropped for the Bangladesh T20 series despite being Pakistan's LEADING wicket-taker in T20s since start of 2018. Yet useless Musa found a place in the squad.

    So Amir has every right to be aggrieved at the whispering campaign led by Misbah and Waqar about his commitment. It seems Misbah and Waqar failed to communicate with Amir, and have pursued a policy of liking and disliking, of pursuing grudges instead of Pakistan's interests. Now you see why Pakistani coaches are toxic.
    Exactly. Some poor man management skills from Misbah and co. They haven't even once spoken to Amir to understand his concerns and to improve the situation for both Amir and Pakistan. Had they managed to convince Amir with a better work load management it would have been beneficial for Pakistan.

    I still maintain that Pakistan at the least needs 5 good pace bowlers to be able to compete everywhere. A fully fit Amir is one of them and he doesn't need to play every other game to have an impact on Pak's results.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  35. #35
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    should have come to an arrangement with the pcb and become a reserve bowler, or announce a temporary break from tests, pak hardly play any tests, and he isnt a front line pick anyway.

    fact is his last 6 test matches came over a span of nearly a year and a half. yes his body may not be able to handle it but his workload could have been reduced without retiring from tests.

    anyway pak seem to have a few decent test seamers going, hopefully wont miss him much.

  36. #36
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    It sounds a bit whiney to be honest. All three of our spot fixers have been surprisingly entitled in it's aftermath.

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    The 5 year gap was the best thing to have happened to his career. It helped spread the myth that he was any good in the first place, after that fluke series on English pitches that resembled the Amazon rainforest.

    In spite of all that I doubt he even averaged below 29 with the ball when his career saw its hiatus.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    It sounds a bit whiney to be honest. All three of our spot fixers have been surprisingly entitled in it's aftermath.
    I was gonna say the same thing. Just a bunch of excuses. He's only got himself to blame, one for spot fixing and two for not keeping himself in shape and training privately while banned. I'm not buying his nonsense.

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    So there was never an agreement between Mickey and Aamir to play selective Tests, where did you get this from @Junaids Right from Aaamir's mouth that is fake news

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    The 5 year gap was the best thing to have happened to his career. It helped spread the myth that he was any good in the first place, after that fluke series on English pitches that resembled the Amazon rainforest.

    In spite of all that I doubt he even averaged below 29 with the ball when his career saw its hiatus.
    18-19 year old guy bowling 145-150 kph taking a 6 fer at lords and 5 fer at Oval and his name appearing on honor's board is not achievable unless you are good. He obviously was a prodigious talent for his age and obviously had a lot of roam to improve as is the case with any young bowler but not all teenage bowlers start at a level he did.

    People dont realize that 5 years didnt only take away time but all that development phase as well. When you stop playing cricket at 19 years of age, suddenly when you start playing back again at 24, it doesnt mean you are gonna be more developed as a bowler just because you are older which one expects in the case of a normal U19 who is gonna keep on playing for years to come and will be much more proficient in his bowling when he is 24 by playing in all conditions.

    My point is when he was being rated he was obviously an exceptional talent for his age but the rating wasnt only because of what he was at that stage rather what that guy could have become. I dont remember many 18-19 year old guys touching 150 kph and taking 5 fers and 6 fers in England. If there are many kindly mention them otherwise saying he wasnt good at the first place is not a valid statement.

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    The guy should thank his lucky stars that he was welcomed back. He has been very mediocre at best with an odd good performances here and there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    18-19 year old guy bowling 145-150 kph taking a 6 fer at lords and 5 fer at Oval and his name appearing on honor's board is not achievable unless you are good. He obviously was a prodigious talent for his age and obviously had a lot of roam to improve as is the case with any young bowler but not all teenage bowlers start at a level he did.

    People dont realize that 5 years didnt only take away time but all that development phase as well. When you stop playing cricket at 19 years of age, suddenly when you start playing back again at 24, it doesnt mean you are gonna be more developed as a bowler just because you are older which one expects in the case of a normal U19 who is gonna keep on playing for years to come and will be much more proficient in his bowling when he is 24 by playing in all conditions.

    My point is when he was being rated he was obviously an exceptional talent for his age but the rating wasnt only because of what he was at that stage rather what that guy could have become. I dont remember many 18-19 year old guys touching 150 kph and taking 5 fers and 6 fers in England. If there are many kindly mention them otherwise saying he wasnt good at the first place is not a valid statement.
    Only other bowlers in recent times that have showed that level of talent as teenagers have been Pat Cummins and Kagiso Rabada, and they're among the best fast bowlers in the world and are likely to finish their careers as ATGs.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    So Mickey Arther and Inzi didnt manage the workload particularly well? He came back in 2016 and then regularly started playing every format till 2019 under Mickey. Anybody remember when Mickey played Amir and full strength team vs Zimbabwe in 2018? Workload management wasnt a strength of Mickey by the looks of it.

    As per Amir: “ with Mickey Arthur and he has admitted it himself that he was being selfish”.

    Now you dont want to hear that from a bowler or any coach. There can always be a conflict of interest when coach’s career is at stake he can overburden his star players so that there is a more chance of team performing well.

    I think there should be an impartial medical professional or physiotherapist assigned by PCB with in the team who develops a threshold for workload so that coaches cant push their players to their bodily limits for the sake of their careers.
    No.

    Misbah managed the workload badly across 9 Tests in 6 months across England, New Zealand and Australia: he insisted on a 3 quick attack where 4 were required, and one of them (Sohail Khan) was incapable of carrying a second innings workload.

    So Amir was massively overbowled on his comeback.

    After Misbah retired, Arthur was able to bring Faheem in as a fourth seamer, and in Amir's final three Test series he had averages of 14.40, 21.28 and 23.58.

  44. #44
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    Cut the bull crape, the only reason Amir is willing to play test matches because there is no league cricket at the moment. He thought he could easily make millions from pajama leagues then corona happened.

    Once a Selfish, always a Selfish... Selfish can be replaced with snake as well...

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    Amir was over bowled in tests. He should have even been rested in odis during the period where he got 3 wickets in 11 matches. He was incredibly lucky to make it to the wc with that form.

    As for test matches, Besides eng, he is not that effective in most countries

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    No.

    Misbah managed the workload badly across 9 Tests in 6 months across England, New Zealand and Australia: he insisted on a 3 quick attack where 4 were required, and one of them (Sohail Khan) was incapable of carrying a second innings workload.

    So Amir was massively overbowled on his comeback.

    After Misbah retired, Arthur was able to bring Faheem in as a fourth seamer, and in Amir's final three Test series he had averages of 14.40, 21.28 and 23.58.
    I always thought coach and chief selector have more power than a captain.

    What do you think about Mickey’s quotes where he admits he was selfish, he wanted Amir to play every test possible and he pushed him through a lot?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    Only other bowlers in recent times that have showed that level of talent as teenagers have been Pat Cummins and Kagiso Rabada, and they're among the best fast bowlers in the world and are likely to finish their careers as ATGs.
    Exactly. Thats my point. Not sure what Amir would have become but he surely was a prodigy when he was young and if he wiuld have kept on playing who knows what he could have become.

  48. #48
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    @Junaids below are the quotes from and for Mickey:

    Mickey: “I loved Amir because of his ability to bowl and his ability to win games. I played Amir in every test I possibly could and that was selfish from me as a coach because I pushed him through a lot.”

    As per Amir: “ with Mickey Arthur and he has admitted it himself that he was being selfish”.

    Why would Mickey say that if he had no role in pushing Amir to his limits. Not to forget in 2018 when Misbah was retired for almost a year Mickey played Amir in Zimbabwe as well.

    Misbah should have spoken up for Amir as well but coach holds the responsibility and final authority of workload management and Mickey’s quotes also endorse that.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    @Junaids below are the quotes from and for Mickey:

    Mickey: “I loved Amir because of his ability to bowl and his ability to win games. I played Amir in every test I possibly could and that was selfish from me as a coach because I pushed him through a lot.”

    As per Amir: “ with Mickey Arthur and he has admitted it himself that he was being selfish”.

    Why would Mickey say that if he had no role in pushing Amir to his limits. Not to forget in 2018 when Misbah was retired for almost a year Mickey played Amir in Zimbabwe as well.

    Misbah should have spoken up for Amir as well but coach holds the responsibility and final authority of workload management and Mickey’s quotes also endorse that.
    I accept those points, but would add - and I’m sorry but I can’t say who told me this - that by the end of the 2018 England tour Mickey Arthur had realised that Amir was not suited to Tests in the UAE, and that they just wore out his body for very little return.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    Only other bowlers in recent times that have showed that level of talent as teenagers have been Pat Cummins and Kagiso Rabada, and they're among the best fast bowlers in the world and are likely to finish their careers as ATGs.
    That's because Australia and South Africa have mature systems that hone these bowlers to their max long term potential.

    Pakistan produce only flashes in the pan - bat or ball. Same thing with Junaid Khan. If he was banned after the Aane Do series for 5 years, a similar myth around him would have prevailed. And countless others.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

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    Can't complain, he bought all this upon himself as a CHEAT.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    That's because Australia and South Africa have mature systems that hone these bowlers to their max long term potential.

    Pakistan produce only flashes in the pan - bat or ball. Same thing with Junaid Khan. If he was banned after the Aane Do series for 5 years, a similar myth around him would have prevailed. And countless others.
    Junaid Khan was never considered a prodigy in his U19 days even by PCB. Junaid was considered a good bowler who definitely stood up for few years post Amir but in terms of how they were rated there isnt much comparison. Amir obviously had a much higher ceiling and every cricket expert would say the same.

    Just to clear the air the only bowlers rated really highly in the Pakistan's cricket system in the last two decades in terms of potential post 2005 have been Asif, Amir and now Shaheen and Naseem. I am talking about bowlers which everybody (National academies, domestic coaches etc) with consensus believed that they can have a great international career. Two of them finished their own careers and should have served Pakistan for the 2010-2020 decade.

    Same is the case with many other countries where every bowler isnt considered as the next big thing rather a selected few. Take out two best young bowlers of the current generation and then they will have to make it work with the second string where there can be many flash in the pans.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    PCB made a mistake by playing Amir in all formats after his return. Should have looked after him.
    I have been saying this for a long time, did the same thing to Mohammed Irfan , made him bowl in tests in UAE heat What happened he became useless in 2015 CWC. PCB and professionalism doesn’t go hand in hand.

  54. #54
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    I’m happy that Amir voiced this out. His retirement is due to selfish coach, captain and mismanagement of PCB. Yes he did cheat and suffered for it 5 years. I believe that is done, on his return , every captain and coach was greedy enough to play him.

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    What was he doing in the five years he was off though? It's easy for me to say he should have exercised/ kept fit etc, but I'll say it anyway.

    He's an international sportsman, is he himself satisfied with the work he put in in those 5 years he was out of the game? Or did he fail to find a way to do it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryin Out Loud View Post
    What was he doing in the five years he was off though? It's easy for me to say he should have exercised/ kept fit etc, but I'll say it anyway.

    He's an international sportsman, is he himself satisfied with the work he put in in those 5 years he was out of the game? Or did he fail to find a way to do it?
    Part of that time was spent thinking about whether he was going to play cricket again.

    He couldn't play cricket so I can't imagine training was top of his list.
    Last edited by Saj; 23rd July 2020 at 13:02.



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    //my swing is getting lost//
    Lies. He intentionally bowled with scrambled seam with new ball. He deserves to be dropped from all formats. A selfish player, who was in for money and fame. Now he got those and didn't need his country anymore. He lets you believe his audience are gullible, like he did in spot fixing.

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    PCB should test his lies by offering him to play for tests only like Anderson and Broad. He is playing T20 & ODI for money. It's so obvious. Let's play with him using the same tactic. You want a contract and only play limited cricket? How about you play tests.

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    His whole argument is full of contradictions. Wants to play 2-3 leagues per year but runs away from national duty. Man, it is so repulsive reading this. If Shoaib Akhtar had done this, or Wasim, or Waqar, we won't have been anywhere near what we are today. Easy money has corrupted our small minded players
    Last edited by adil79; 23rd July 2020 at 01:16.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Junaid Khan was never considered a prodigy in his U19 days even by PCB. Junaid was considered a good bowler who definitely stood up for few years post Amir but in terms of how they were rated there isnt much comparison. Amir obviously had a much higher ceiling and every cricket expert would say the same.

    Just to clear the air the only bowlers rated really highly in the Pakistan's cricket system in the last two decades in terms of potential post 2005 have been Asif, Amir and now Shaheen and Naseem. I am talking about bowlers which everybody (National academies, domestic coaches etc) with consensus believed that they can have a great international career. Two of them finished their own careers and should have served Pakistan for the 2010-2020 decade.

    Same is the case with many other countries where every bowler isnt considered as the next big thing rather a selected few. Take out two best young bowlers of the current generation and then they will have to make it work with the second string where there can be many flash in the pans.
    I remember reading how Asif had a terrible domestic record and or tournament before he caught Bob Woolmer’s eye for the AUS tour of 2004.

    But yes, the three others have been regarded as the cream of the crop well before their international debuts.


    "Preventive war is like committing suicide for fear of death" ~ Otto Von Bismarck

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    I remember reading how Asif had a terrible domestic record and or tournament before he caught Bob Woolmer’s eye for the AUS tour of 2004.

    But yes, the three others have been regarded as the cream of the crop well before their international debuts.
    True, Asif wasnt in the radar in his teenage but definitely got eyes rolling from all corners when he made his first class entry. His stats were pretty decent but many bowlers had better stats than him at that time, he averaged 25 with the ball in 2004 QAE trophy (The season before his debut) and got two 5 wickets haul and one 10 wickets haul in that season.

    When he was picked at 21 years of age in 2005 (Maybe noticed by Woolmer as you mentioned), everybody in the setup realized that they have got a rare talent at their hands. Even Leicestershire county signed him in the same year despite Asif's test debut being wicketless and just one test under his belt.


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