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  1. #1
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    Who is the best politician of all time?

    My candidates:

    FDR - Four-time president and led during WWII and the Great Depression.

    Lincoln- Kept the Union intact.

    Bismarck- Masterminded the unification of Germany through three tumultuous wars in rapid succession.

    Metternich- Devised the diplomatic downfall of Napoleon and the Metternich System (which led to the Age of Metternich (1815-1848)), ensuring the extension of conservatism in radical Europe and lasting peace (with brief interruptions, such as the Crimean War, Franco-Prussian, and Austrian-Prussian) in Europe for 100 years.

    Talleyrand- A duplicitous French powerhouse who served under five different regimes of various kinds and had the Pope and King at his deathbed.

    Augustus- Laid the foundations for the Roman Empire after coming into power at a tender age, just eighteen and ruled for about 40 years. His rule ensured the beginning of Pax Romana, which lasted for 200 years.

    (I’m tempted to add Gladstone but since I do not know much about British history, I will leave it to those who do).

    Honorable mention goes to LBJ and Henry Kissinger.

    Anyways, those are my nominations. Tell em yours.


    "Preventive war is like committing suicide for fear of death" ~ Otto Von Bismarck

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    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Deng Xiaoping - his policies of opening china up to foreign investment and taking a much softer approach to tolerance of private ventures have arguably alleviated more people from poverty than any other politician.

  4. #4
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    Hitler was a master politician making Germany great within 5 years of his reign. Too bad He became a crack head

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    Are you talking about "politicions" (who can be a negative and positive character or both) or "leaders"

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    Presidant Nixion was a genius, abolishes the bretton woods agreement, so US can print money at will and when it was about to lose its status as the worlds reserve currecy, sets up a deal with king faisal to loan the us army to saudi and making sure, all oil is trading in dollars, keep its currency as the most demanded, however i do believe most of it was masterminded by henry kissinger.

    With the petrodollar system under threat, US will need another genius otherwise the dollar will fall, clearly trumps not capable here, nor is biden.


    If you want to destroy a country, just create enmity between its people and their army - Salahuddin

  7. #7
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    Winston Churchill?

    Perhaps Bill Clinton among more recent names.

    My definition of a great politician is someone who can make deals with the opposition, unite their party, win the favour of the public, move the State forward. Not necessarily someone with the best policies, etc. Thats highly subjective

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    I am a big fan of Erdogan. Also, I admire Vladimir Putin's personality (even though I don't support his interference in Syria). Both are men of their words and I respect that.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  9. #9
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    FDR for sure. If only he hadnt died before enacting the second bill of rights.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishtiaq_ctg View Post
    Hitler was a master politician making Germany great within 5 years of his reign. Too bad He became a crack head
    I think he was a terrible politician; a one-trick pony.

    Too unstable, in policy, practice, and personal matters.

    Merely tied by his obligations to the German industrialists such as Alfred Krupp.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetroDollars View Post
    Presidant Nixion was a genius, abolishes the bretton woods agreement, so US can print money at will and when it was about to lose its status as the worlds reserve currecy, sets up a deal with king faisal to loan the us army to saudi and making sure, all oil is trading in dollars, keep its currency as the most demanded, however i do believe most of it was masterminded by henry kissinger.

    With the petrodollar system under threat, US will need another genius otherwise the dollar will fall, clearly trumps not capable here, nor is biden.
    Kissinger is a strategist but a slightly overrated one.

    As much as Nixon would ramble and Kissinger take credit for them in confidence to the press or at Georgetown dinner parties, I believe in foreign matters, Nixon was the master. He also predicted Russia’s return to one-man rule shortly before his death.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by coy0607 View Post
    Winston Churchill?

    Perhaps Bill Clinton among more recent names.

    My definition of a great politician is someone who can make deals with the opposition, unite their party, win the favour of the public, move the State forward. Not necessarily someone with the best policies, etc. Thats highly subjective
    Churchill was a horrendous politician.

    Changing political parties, enforcing WWI, routed after Gallipoli, choosing the wrong side in the abdication crisis, and gullibly believing Stalin after WWII not to extend eastwards.

    His war-time leadership has erased his ineptitude in peace-time throughout the annals of history.
    Last edited by ManFan; 30th July 2020 at 06:48.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensiblePakFan View Post
    FDR for sure. If only he hadnt died before enacting the second bill of rights.
    What was contained in his idea of a second bill of rights?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    I am a big fan of Erdogan. Also, I admire Vladimir Putin's personality (even though I don't support his interference in Syria). Both are men of their words and I respect that.
    Putin and to a lesser extent Erdogan have achieved a stronghold on power firmly.

    But their economic strangulation of their respective nations has led to a stagnation that may very well spell doom for their tenures.

    Ultimately, they will be between a rock and hard place when deciding where to find enough money to give to their power brokers and backers when the country will be at a standstill. Like Gorbachev in the late 80’s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    Kissinger is a strategist but a slightly overrated one.

    As much as Nixon would ramble and Kissinger take credit for them in confidence to the press or at Georgetown dinner parties, I believe in foreign matters, Nixon was the master. He also predicted Russia’s return to one-man rule shortly before his death.
    Nixon is severely underrated as a politician tbh but some of it has to do with his own stupidity with the whole Watergate scandal and he also changed republican party to cater to southern votes so he must be smart as a politician to sense an opportunity (which republicans are still using)

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    Quote Originally Posted by PetroDollars View Post
    Presidant Nixion was a genius, abolishes the bretton woods agreement, so US can print money at will and when it was about to lose its status as the worlds reserve currecy, sets up a deal with king faisal to loan the us army to saudi and making sure, all oil is trading in dollars, keep its currency as the most demanded, however i do believe most of it was masterminded by henry kissinger.

    With the petrodollar system under threat, US will need another genius otherwise the dollar will fall, clearly trumps not capable here, nor is biden.
    Kissinger takes credit for a lot of Nixon’s moves. I will rate Kissinger second after Bismarck.

    My personal opinion is that no one tops Bismarck, who not only united Germany (as excellently explained in the OP) but was directly the mastermind for all international relations across Europe from 1871-1889 (influencing all alliances, pacts, as well as economics and country dynamics leading up to WW1).

    The impact of Bismarck’s politicking is still felt today and is famous for being the primary exponent of Realpolitik, a method of international policy exercised later by Henry Kissinger. He also coined the term balance of power - something he delicately set up in Europe and without which Germany, Britain, France, and Russia fell at each others’ throats after his death. In effect, by WW1 in 1914-1918 it was realized that this man had singlehandedly maintained order in Europe for almost 43 years between the unification of Germany in 1871 and 1914, a decade and a half after his death.

    In the modern day, very few politicians match this level of politicking or Machiavellianism. Xi Jinping is perhaps the most effective.

  17. #17
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    In response to other figures in the OP — Lincoln and FDR were great leaders, perhaps some of the greatest ever, but they were good not great politicians. Strategy, policymaking, creating alliances and strongarming both friends and enemies, selling lies as honey and maintaining power for themselves, even LBJ and Putin qualify as more clever in this regard.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    Churchill was a horrendous politician.

    Changing political parties, enforcing WWI, routed after Gallipoli, choosing the wrong side in the abdication crisis, and gullibly believing Stalin after WWII not to extend eastwards.

    His war-time leadership has erased his ineptitude in peace-time throughout the annals of history.
    Isn't that exactly what makes him a great politician? Every politician makes mistakes / blunders, especially prominent ones. But the fact that people don't remember Churchill's mistakes to the point that he was re-elected years after the war... that by definition is a what politics is all about

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by coy0607 View Post
    Isn't that exactly what makes him a great politician? Every politician makes mistakes / blunders, especially prominent ones. But the fact that people don't remember Churchill's mistakes to the point that he was re-elected years after the war... that by definition is a what politics is all about
    Sure which is why he’s a decent politician. But even Nawaz Sharif can do that. You do need to actually accomplish significant things to go a milestone further and lay claim to an elite tier of policy makers and strategists.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by coy0607 View Post
    Isn't that exactly what makes him a great politician? Every politician makes mistakes / blunders, especially prominent ones. But the fact that people don't remember Churchill's mistakes to the point that he was re-elected years after the war... that by definition is a what politics is all about
    The thing is Churchill’s war-time accomplishments are so great that they render his domestic peace-time ones rather, quiet.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    In response to other figures in the OP — Lincoln and FDR were great leaders, perhaps some of the greatest ever, but they were good not great politicians. Strategy, policymaking, creating alliances and strongarming both friends and enemies, selling lies as honey and maintaining power for themselves, even LBJ and Putin qualify as more clever in this regard.
    Lincoln has a picture of the backwoods politician but he was anything but. His mastery of people which led him to rise to power (laying the seeds for the division of the Democratic nomination in 1860, two years before during the Senate race with Douglas) and handling insurmountable egos and pressure with his cabinet are quite impressive feats.

    FDR managed to save a country from revolt (Soldiers March), economic depression (1/4 jobless) which resulted from allowing Japan to carry on their attack to go into wartime production, to being elected a third time despite his own VP plotting against him and public stigma, wartime diplomacy with UK and then USSR, is no easy feat.

    I think because he did it so well we forget what a burden it all must have been.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Kissinger takes credit for a lot of Nixon’s moves. I will rate Kissinger second after Bismarck.

    My personal opinion is that no one tops Bismarck, who not only united Germany (as excellently explained in the OP) but was directly the mastermind for all international relations across Europe from 1871-1889 (influencing all alliances, pacts, as well as economics and country dynamics leading up to WW1).

    The impact of Bismarck’s politicking is still felt today and is famous for being the primary exponent of Realpolitik, a method of international policy exercised later by Henry Kissinger. He also coined the term balance of power - something he delicately set up in Europe and without which Germany, Britain, France, and Russia fell at each others’ throats after his death. In effect, by WW1 in 1914-1918 it was realized that this man had singlehandedly maintained order in Europe for almost 43 years between the unification of Germany in 1871 and 1914, a decade and a half after his death.

    In the modern day, very few politicians match this level of politicking or Machiavellianism. Xi Jinping is perhaps the most effective.
    Yes but many find Bismarck at fault for creating an alliance system only he and his officer’s staff could maintain.

    When he and then they were gone, it all fell apart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    Yes but many find Bismarck at fault for creating an alliance system only he and his officer’s staff could maintain.

    When he and then they were gone, it all fell apart.
    The system wasn’t that complicated. The reason it fell apart was because there was no one left making an active push for alliances, pacts, and peace. Germany, France, Britain, and Russia all got caught up in a struggle for power that had consequences when they found an excuse to go to arms over archduke ferdinand. This tells us a lot about the hold he had over europe.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    The system wasn’t that complicated. The reason it fell apart was because there was no one left making an active push for alliances, pacts, and peace. Germany, France, Britain, and Russia all got caught up in a struggle for power that had consequences when they found an excuse to go to arms over archduke ferdinand. This tells us a lot about the hold he had over europe.
    I think Wilhelm I ignored one of the key facets of Bismarck’s diplomacy; be in the party of three in Europe. Thus. he aligned himself with Austria and Russia to isolate France as England wished not to interfere.

    Wilhelm allowed France to align with Russia (1894; a mere 4 years after Bismarck was fired from office) and England by 1904.

    Such is the subtle and difficult art of diplomatic maneuvering that Bismarck created that the seeds of its downfall were laid four years after his governmental departure.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    What was contained in his idea of a second bill of rights?
    Name:  fdrr.jpg
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    Stuff that most of Europe and developed Asia had already implemented decades ago now.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    I think Wilhelm I ignored one of the key facets of Bismarck’s diplomacy; be in the party of three in Europe. Thus. he aligned himself with Austria and Russia to isolate France as England wished not to interfere.

    Wilhelm allowed France to align with Russia (1894; a mere 4 years after Bismarck was fired from office) and England by 1904.

    Such is the subtle and difficult art of diplomatic maneuvering that Bismarck created that the seeds of its downfall were laid four years after his governmental departure.
    Hence why I give Bismarck so much credit!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Hence why I give Bismarck so much credit!
    Too shay.

    But the mark of a genius is also how well he lays the future he cannot see.

    Although, Bismarck could clearly see when (Balkans) and where (20 years after his death), he did and or could not set up a system to prevent after him what he worked two decades to avoid, total war.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensiblePakFan View Post
    Name:  fdrr.jpg
Views: 125
Size:  35.5 KB

    Stuff that most of Europe and developed Asia had already implemented decades ago now.
    Seems awfully broad. I mean, not very detailed.

    Are you sure this is not fabricated?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    Seems awfully broad. I mean, not very detailed.

    Are you sure this is not fabricated?
    Feel free to watch the video on any public forum.

  30. #30
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    Nelson Mandela.

  31. #31
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    Britons
    ———-
    Lloyd George introduced civil reforms, gave women the vote and got his nation through WW1.

    Attlee set up the welfare state and transformed British society.

    Americans
    ————-

    Lincoln repaired the fractured USA.

    FDR held USA together through the Great Depression, and liberated Western Europe and the Far East from tyranny in WW2.

    LBJ got the Civil Rights Act through.

    South Africans
    ———————

    Mandela prevented race war and brought about an equal society.

    Germans
    ————-

    Bismarck reunified Germany.

    Merkel - the de facto leader of Europe and bastion of liberalism.

    France
    —————
    De Gaulle repaired a shattered nation after WW2.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    The thing is Churchill’s war-time accomplishments are so great that they render his domestic peace-time ones rather, quiet.
    But then he killed 300,000 black Kenyans in the early 1950s.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishtiaq_ctg View Post
    Hitler was a master politician making Germany great within 5 years of his reign. Too bad He became a crack head
    Too bad he murdered millions and started the bloodiest war in history.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Too bad he murdered millions and started the bloodiest war in history.
    My favourite is Sir Winston Churchill. Rare to see such an intellectual leader with the spirit of a british bulldog. Also agree on his opinion on indians.

  35. #35
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    Gandhi

  36. #36
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    1) Abraham Lincoln
    2) Adolf Hitler
    3) Franklin Roosevelt
    4) Winston Churchill
    5) Nelson Mandela
    6) George Washington
    7) Narendra Modi
    8) Margaret Thatcher
    9) Ronald Regan
    10) Vladimir Lenin

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    1) Abraham Lincoln
    2) Adolf Hitler
    3) Franklin Roosevelt
    4) Winston Churchill
    5) Nelson Mandela
    6) George Washington
    7) Narendra Modi
    8) Margaret Thatcher
    9) Ronald Regan
    10) Vladimir Lenin
    Great list. Give it another term or so and I reckon Modi will be competing near the top of that list along with FDR and Lincoln.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensiblePakFan View Post
    Name:  fdrr.jpg
Views: 125
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    Stuff that most of Europe and developed Asia had already implemented decades ago now.
    Britain certainly hadn't, and Europe had been smashed so I don't know what nations you are referring too.

  39. #39
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    Dear lord. Most of you are just basing your views on history books written by the winners, on leaders, not politicians, of yesteryear. You might as well claim Pharoah was a great politican, and Hitler was a God send because he was the only politican to pull a nation out of hyperinflation towards global supremacy.

    For me, in my life time, if there is one politican who started small and ended up at the empyrean level of politics, then it's none other than - Vladimir Putin.

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    Ayotollah Khomeini.
    Nelson Mandela
    Winston Churchill( hate him personally)
    Jyoti Basu( not a fan but he was a great politician)


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
    -Virat Kohli

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    Salvador Allende gets an honourable mention here.

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    Surprised no has mentioned Quaid-e-Azam. He's my favourite all-time politician.

    Don't be surprised if some cult follower brings up Imran Khan

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    Chanakya was the greatest politician ever . He was political genius.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    Lincoln has a picture of the backwoods politician but he was anything but. His mastery of people which led him to rise to power (laying the seeds for the division of the Democratic nomination in 1860, two years before during the Senate race with Douglas) and handling insurmountable egos and pressure with his cabinet are quite impressive feats.

    FDR managed to save a country from revolt (Soldiers March), economic depression (1/4 jobless) which resulted from allowing Japan to carry on their attack to go into wartime production, to being elected a third time despite his own VP plotting against him and public stigma, wartime diplomacy with UK and then USSR, is no easy feat.

    I think because he did it so well we forget what a burden it all must have been.
    Churchill’s greatest ambition was to keep India as a colony and he failed. He did not have the intelligence to understand Indians and reach an accommodation with them. He had stupid ideas like the Muslims and North Indians would conquer the rest of the country if the British left. Actions such as his indifference to the Bengal Famine made it impossible for the British to reach any sort of compromise and remain as rulers of India.

    He gave a well received speech at the beginning of his WW2 leadership, but his actions were quite inept. He had no clue about the strength of the Wehrmacht when he sent the BEP to fight in France where they were promptly routed. He was saved by the even greater ineptness of Hitter who believed about the Soviets “We have only to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down”, and made the crucial mistake of starting the second front without finishing off Britain first. Right after WW2 he lost the elections.

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    @cricketjoshila will tell you it's BJP's Modi and his party's local representative in West Bengal. The latter once claimed that cow urine is yellow because it's made of gold
    Last edited by topspin; 3rd August 2020 at 18:38.


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