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  1. #1
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    England vs Pakistan | 2nd Test | Southampton | August 13-17, 2020 | Pre-Match Discussion Thread

    Hard to come back from this for the remainder of the series. The batsmen should have batted England out of the game with a hundred more. Losing Shan Masood to a strangle cost the team the anchor and the run out was perhaps costly. However the tail got us enough runs. 275 was definitely a defendable total. The inexperience of the attack shown up here. But ultimately a fantastic innings by Buttler & Woakes.

    Disappointing as England will only get better and we may lose the toss in the next 2 games. Those 50 runs the last 2 wickets put on for England in the first innings proving vital too.
    Last edited by The Viper; 8th August 2020 at 22:54.

  2. #2
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    to airport .


    I am going to name my son "Intikhab Alam" so that he will never lose his job.

  3. #3
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    277 was defendable. Eng were 117/5!!!


    ...

  4. #4
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    Need to replace Abid Ali and rest one of Shaheen or Naseem


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  5. #5
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    Do you want a blunt answer?

    Do not have high expectations for this team. They are not capable of extended focus (barring a few outliers like Masood). They can play brilliant cricket one day and terrible cricket the next. Its what they have been doing in my 20 years of watching them play.

    They will never change. They will never fully dedicate themselves and become a great team. They would rather play 4-5 brilliant games a year and play mediocre cricket the rest of the year.

    Follow other sports, do not have high expectations for this team (or this country for that matter), and just enjoy whenever they do win.

  6. #6
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    If they are serious about winning they need to drop Asad and Azhar for Fawad and Imam.

  7. #7
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    Not gonna be watching this.
    Should be the end of Asad's test career and Azhars captaincy stint.
    Give the new ball to Naseem along with Abbas.

  8. #8
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    I am not interested in actually taking time to watch the remaining matches. I will watch a session here and there. But i would rather spend more time following other sports.

  9. #9
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    Need to get Amir, Wahab in if they want to have a chance. Can't survive with 3 nr 11's. It's criminal in the UK where our batting more than often will flop.

    Also it seems all a bit too much for the young talented fast bowlers. Abbas is the only experienced guy who knows his art and keeps performing consistently.

    Also Asad and Azhar are a curse and we will never move ahead with them in the team. When will the torment end?


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  10. #10
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    The issue isnít just Asad and Azhar. The other main issue is that our number 8-11 are walking wickets. You canít expect the batsmen to always score big and there will be times you need your lower order to help out just like how Englandís did today. Itís like England only needed the wickets of Masood, Abid, Babar, Rizwan and Shahab.

    I have absolutely no issues with our bowling. I blame absolute pathetic captaincy and a shambolic batting performance albeit Masoodís 1st innings.

  11. #11
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    England probably have the psychological advantage after winning the first Test.



  12. #12
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    Ideally we lose the next match and try out Haider Ali and Imam from the bench in place of Abid and Asad...

  13. #13
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    England will not make the same mistakes going forward. I don't see Pakistan winning many sessions, let alone a test.

    Won't bother tuning for the rest of the series after this shocker. Shameful

  14. #14
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    Management can't afford to wallow in despair like us fans. They need to rally the boys and focus on the positives (that they were ahead for much of the game).

    Come back harder in the next two games and try to win at least one test.

  15. #15
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    Don't bother wasting more energy on this lot.

    Come on England, make it 3-0 so this proven failed management combination of Misbah/Azhar/Waqar, and their golden boy Shafiq can be discarded once and for all.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azrim_91 View Post
    The issue isn’t just Asad and Azhar. The other main issue is that our number 8-11 are walking wickets. You can’t expect the batsmen to always score big and there will be times you need your lower order to help out just like how England’s did today. It’s like England only needed the wickets of Masood, Abid, Babar, Rizwan and Shahab.

    I have absolutely no issues with our bowling. I blame absolute pathetic captaincy and a shambolic batting performance albeit Masood’s 1st innings.
    Exactly. It's criminal to have three nr 11's in the UK. Mickey saw it well and had great success last time.

    Pakistan needs to talk to M. Amir and think about Wahab as well.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Ideally we lose the next match and try out Haider Ali and Imam from the bench in place of Abid and Asad...
    Itís so frustrating because you cannot play a team with no batting experience and especially when you have a potential ATG in Babar whoís recently just found his place in test match cricket. It just puts unnecessary pressure on the guy and put all those years of effort go to waste. The Fab Four have always settled into a team with experience around them.

    Iím all for just dropping all the seniors and putting in young blood, but itís a recipe for disaster.

    Asad and Azhar are going nowhere till Babar doesnít get solid runs and experience of test cricket under him.

  18. #18
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    Can Amir and Wahab play?

  19. #19
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    This loss is really going to test the mood in the bio secure bubble over the next few days.

    How is Azhar supposed to marshall the troops for this one? The team lost largely because of his non performance.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azrim_91 View Post
    The issue isn’t just Asad and Azhar. The other main issue is that our number 8-11 are walking wickets. You can’t expect the batsmen to always score big and there will be times you need your lower order to help out just like how England’s did today. It’s like England only needed the wickets of Masood, Abid, Babar, Rizwan and Shahab.

    I have absolutely no issues with our bowling. I blame absolute pathetic captaincy and a shambolic batting performance albeit Masood’s 1st innings.
    I can't see Naseem getting back to back tests at this stage of his career so whoever we pick will lengthen the tail a bit. Probably Sohail Khan.


  21. #21
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    At this point, I lowkey want a whitewash. Team needs to be revamped.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    I can't see Naseem getting back to back tests at this stage of his career so whoever we pick will lengthen the tail a bit. Probably Sohail Khan.
    Heíll strengthen the batting and weaken our bowling. Lol. Pakistani cricket! Donít we love it!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Don't bother wasting more energy on this lot.

    Come on England, make it 3-0 so this proven failed management combination of Misbah/Azhar/Waqar, and their golden boy Shafiq can be discarded once and for all.
    I think Anderson will be dropped for the next test and Crawley come back in. Assuming Stokes cannot bowl. Otherwise I would bring in Curran. I would feel braver if he was at #8.

  24. #24
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    The kind of batsmen Pakistan have now , I do not think Pakistan can make a come back. Pakistan need Test specialists like Usman Sallahuddin , Fawad Alaam , Saud Shakil etc.

  25. #25
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    I would surely bench Asad for Fawad and bring in Imam for Shadab if there is not much spin at Southampton. Further as Azhar is the captain he has to play probably but, I wont play him with his reflexes at no 3 now. Shan and Fawad can contribute as 5th bowler. Abid deserves another go I think.

    I still think Shaheen and Naseem are much better than the lot on the bench but, if anything they should assess fitness and rest one by replacing him with Sohail Khan or Shinwari if necessary.

    Shan
    Abid
    Imam
    Babar
    Azhar
    Fawad
    Rizwan
    Yasir
    Naseem/ Sohail Khan/ Shinwari
    Shaheen
    Abbas

    If they want to rest Naseem, they will have to use Shaheen in short spells and full throttle.
    Last edited by Titan24; 8th August 2020 at 23:52.

  26. #26
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    Asad should be "rested". But then it is Misbah we are talking about here

  27. #27
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    I like this team better. Pak should go with this for 2nd test.


    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    I would surely bench Asad for Fawad and bring in Imam for Shadab if there is not much spin at Southampton. Further as Azhar is the captain he has to play probably but, I wont play him with his reflexes at no 3 now. Shan and Fawad can contribute as 5th bowler. Abid deserves another go I think.

    I still think Shaheen and Naseem are much better than the lot on the bench but, if anything they should assess fitness and rest one by replacing him with Sohail Khan or Shinwari if necessary.

    Shan
    Abid
    Imam
    Babar
    Azhar
    Fawad
    Rizwan
    Yasir
    Naseem/ Sohail Khan/ Shinwari
    Shaheen
    Abbas

    If they want to rest Naseem, they will have to use Shaheen in short spells and full throttle.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk031992 View Post
    Do you want a blunt answer?

    Do not have high expectations for this team. They are not capable of extended focus (barring a few outliers like Masood). They can play brilliant cricket one day and terrible cricket the next. Its what they have been doing in my 20 years of watching them play.
    They will never change. They will never fully dedicate themselves and become a great team. They would rather play 4-5 brilliant games a year and play mediocre cricket the rest of the year.

    Follow other sports, do not have high expectations for this team (or this country for that matter), and just enjoy whenever they do win.
    This will happen. Pak will lose 3-0 but that was the expectation from anyone who follows cricket (and isn’t ridiculously partisan) before the series started. I will be watching (the last thing to die is hope) but the batting will be under the cosh for the rest of the series.

  29. #29
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    The posts on here are hilarious — if we win we are a reincarnation of Lloyd’s West Indians or Waugh’s Australians and if we lose we are the worst side in the world.
    I am particularly disappointed by the “well, I’m not watching this lot any more” brigade.

    True fans follow their teams through thick and thin and are not just glory seekers

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justcrazy View Post
    The kind of batsmen Pakistan have now , I do not think Pakistan can make a come back. Pakistan need Test specialists like Usman Sallahuddin , Fawad Alaam , Saud Shakil etc.
    Batsmen with sound techniques flourish in England unless they are an absolute freak (like Steve Smith). Prodding outside off stump will always find you out

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibsyhesperis View Post
    Batsmen with sound techniques flourish in England unless they are an absolute freak (like Steve Smith). Prodding outside off stump will always find you out
    thats nonsense. Cook, Smith, Elgar, Brathwaithe etc are all players with limited techniques who have done well in England.

    It's not a sound technique that you need in England, it's temperament and knowing your game to know what to play and what to leave. Masood showed that in the 1st innings. He's so average when it comes to his technique and he's so limited with the shots he can play. You need mentally strong players.

  32. #32
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    Do we not have any batsmen who can replace our failed ones. The bowling seems okay unless we play an extra batsman.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  33. #33
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    One positive is that Yasir looked threatening for the first time in a while. I think because of that, we can have more confidence in him.

    The team management need to define what they want from Shadab. If he's playing as a batsman, he should know his role and be judged on that. If he's to play as an allrounder, then he needs to he given an opportunity to showcase his bowing

    If only Faheem could actually bat- he would add a bit of value then and would prevent us with such a long tail and give us an extra fast bowling option

  34. #34
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    Not many changes for PAK - to be honest, there are not many options left. Shadab did score 50+ runs in this Test and I am not sure if Imam or Fawad could have matched that; Fakhar may be but his not there. Azhar can't be dropped while Rizwan kept well, no reason to be axed.

    I think, only serious change I can think is Sohail for Shadab or Yasir (depending on wicket, but I don't think it'll be green top). There won't be much of a loss with bat, but Sohail can use new ball much better. Probably PAK will go with same XI - I'll, unless the wicket or weather is completely different.

    Two changes for Poms - Dom Bess out and Moeen in; Foakes in and one of Jofra or Jimmy rested. Butler is in excellent form, should be persisted with but his keeping was atrocious which kept PAK in the game (had Shan been caught/stumped on first morning, this Test won't have gone to Day 4) - they should play him as specialist bat and keep with Foakes who is a far better WK than JB and a probably a better batsman than both Rizwan & Butler. If the wicket is faster and they want to keep four pacers (5 actually, Stokes should get more overs) in XI, may be they can bring Foakes for Bess - Root can bowl 10-12 overs of offie, if required and he won't do much worse.

    1. Burns
    2. Dom
    3. Pope
    4. *Root
    5. Stokes
    6. JB
    7. +Foakes
    8. Woakes
    9. Jofra/Moeen
    10. Broad
    11. Anderson/Moeen

    2-0 to the hosts unless it rains off for last 2 days (first two days' rain won't work - they'll make up some of it and 294 overs should be enough....)

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibsyhesperis View Post
    The posts on here are hilarious ó if we win we are a reincarnation of Lloydís West Indians or Waughís Australians and if we lose we are the worst side in the world.
    I am particularly disappointed by the ďwell, Iím not watching this lot any moreĒ brigade.

    True fans follow their teams through thick and thin and are not just glory seekers
    True, alot of the guys on here seem very prone to knee jerk reactions and outlandish statement. Apparently Sarfaraz Ahmed is the next saviour now in some other thread.
    Last edited by ahmed16; 9th August 2020 at 00:57. Reason: Spell mistake

  36. #36
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    Wasim Akram

    “Southampton pitch is very different than this one, so 2 spinners are out of the game there in my opinion; Sohail Khan has been in good nick, he’s not express likeNaseem Shah and Afridi but he can swing the ball - outswing to the right handers and he has 5 wickets in the Intra-Squad game, so probably he will come in for the next game; The only problem I have is that I dont want them to go down mentally, because they have to go harder because England love playing in Southampton, there is a bit of spongy bounce there and our batsmen are not use to it; Is our batting strong enough? not really”


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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azrim_91 View Post
    thats nonsense. Cook, Smith, Elgar, Brathwaithe etc are all players with limited techniques who have done well in England.

    It's not a sound technique that you need in England, it's temperament and knowing your game to know what to play and what to leave. Masood showed that in the 1st innings. He's so average when it comes to his technique and he's so limited with the shots he can play. You need mentally strong players.
    Actually incorrect — Cook knew his game inside out, knew where his off stump was and played to his limitations. Smith and Elgar also. If you don’t know where your off stump is and you prod away all day you will never succeed in England.
    Sorry but you are quite simply wrong

  38. #38
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    Abid, Shan, Azhar*, Babar, Asad, Rizwan+, Faheem, Yasir, Sohail, Abbas, Shaheen

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Not many changes for PAK - to be honest, there are not many options left. Shadab did score 50+ runs in this Test and I am not sure if Imam or Fawad could have matched that; Fakhar may be but his not there. Azhar can't be dropped while Rizwan kept well, no reason to be axed.

    I think, only serious change I can think is Sohail for Shadab or Yasir (depending on wicket, but I don't think it'll be green top). There won't be much of a loss with bat, but Sohail can use new ball much better. Probably PAK will go with same XI - I'll, unless the wicket or weather is completely different.

    Two changes for Poms - Dom Bess out and Moeen in; Foakes in and one of Jofra or Jimmy rested. Butler is in excellent form, should be persisted with but his keeping was atrocious which kept PAK in the game (had Shan been caught/stumped on first morning, this Test won't have gone to Day 4) - they should play him as specialist bat and keep with Foakes who is a far better WK than JB and a probably a better batsman than both Rizwan & Butler. If the wicket is faster and they want to keep four pacers (5 actually, Stokes should get more overs) in XI, may be they can bring Foakes for Bess - Root can bowl 10-12 overs of offie, if required and he won't do much worse.

    1. Burns
    2. Dom
    3. Pope
    4. *Root
    5. Stokes
    6. JB
    7. +Foakes
    8. Woakes
    9. Jofra/Moeen
    10. Broad
    11. Anderson/Moeen

    2-0 to the hosts unless it rains off for last 2 days (first two days' rain won't work - they'll make up some of it and 294 overs should be enough....)
    Very good line up but I don't think we will take the gloves of Butler, if one of the fast bowlers are rested then Mark Wood will come in unless they play 2 spinners. Bess is likely to continue, Leach could potentially replace him as there is no Moeen in the reserves, I would like to think they are punishing for the 'sabbatical' but he is in the limited over squads even though Tests are his best format, especially at home


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Very good line up but I don't think we will take the gloves of Butler, if one of the fast bowlers are rested then Mark Wood will come in unless they play 2 spinners. Bess is likely to continue, Leach could potentially replace him as there is no Moeen in the reserves, I would like to think they are punishing for the 'sabbatical' but he is in the limited over squads even though Tests are his best format, especially at home


    This Test was one of the worst in PAK's history in terms of result - almost every thing went in favor. That's the closest "home" wicket that PAK will find outside home, won the toss, ENG bowled rubbish on Day 1 and dropped catches, then their top order got blown away and finally PAK had 275+ to defend on last innings, got them down to 117/5 - still it wasn't enough. Individually, ENG had hardly any contribution from their top players Stokes, Root, Burns, Jimmy, Archer while PAK got bonus runs from Yasir and the all-rounder, Shan played the innings of his life. I see ENG going strength to strength while PAK fading away.

    I am sure ENG had their scare in this Test - they won't take any risk. Whatever experiment to be done, they'll keep it for 3rd Test. I have a bad feeling that ENG is going to crash PAK in 2nd Test before releasing the gas paddle for 3rd one. PAK better prepare well, otherwise ENG might not bat twice at a much, much faster and bouncier track.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Wasim Akram

    “Southampton pitch is very different than this one, so 2 spinners are out of the game there in my opinion; Sohail Khan has been in good nick, he’s not express likeNaseem Shah and Afridi but he can swing the ball - outswing to the right handers and he has 5 wickets in the Intra-Squad game, so probably he will come in for the next game; The only problem I have is that I dont want them to go down mentally, because they have to go harder because England love playing in Southampton, there is a bit of spongy bounce there and our batsmen are not use to it; Is our batting strong enough? not really”
    Lol, Waz refraining from the usual hyperbole cos he knows the batting is poos.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    This Test was one of the worst in PAK's history in terms of result - almost every thing went in favor. That's the closest "home" wicket that PAK will find outside home, won the toss, ENG bowled rubbish on Day 1 and dropped catches, then their top order got blown away and finally PAK had 275+ to defend on last innings, got them down to 117/5 - still it wasn't enough. Individually, ENG had hardly any contribution from their top players Stokes, Root, Burns, Jimmy, Archer while PAK got bonus runs from Yasir and the all-rounder, Shan played the innings of his life. I see ENG going strength to strength while PAK fading away.

    I am sure ENG had their scare in this Test - they won't take any risk. Whatever experiment to be done, they'll keep it for 3rd Test. I have a bad feeling that ENG is going to crash PAK in 2nd Test before releasing the gas paddle for 3rd one. PAK better prepare well, otherwise ENG might not bat twice at a much, much faster and bouncier track.
    I don't know much about the Rose Bowl ground. But in the In the Windies test it didn't seem that bouncy. Just quick

  43. #43
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    If Pakistan dont drop asad for fawad alam then I'll probably just force myself to stop following and enjoying Pakistani cricket. For me, it would just be an absolute joke. A final statement of crookedness and idiocy

    None of the bowlers should be dropped. Definitely not naseem

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakFan2010 View Post
    Can Amir and Wahab play?
    Wahab has agreed, but they haven't yet spoken to Amir. Another question is if Amir is match fit.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    I don't know much about the Rose Bowl ground. But in the In the Windies test it didn't seem that bouncy. Just quick
    It's South East England doubt there will be much bounce or movement after day 1 and maybe 2.

    Expect it to be a dry wicket with reverse swing and spin coming into play. It should suit Pakistan.

    Wouldn't surprise me if Misbah brings Wahab Riaz into play for his reverse swing skills.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  46. #46
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    The way bowlers were bowled by Azhar, we actually went with 4 bowlers and Shadab was treated as a batsman. The purpose of playing 5 bowlers is to provide rest to pace bowlers. But all of our pacers over-bowled in the first innings. Now, the worst was that our 2nd innings folded in less than 2 sessions and our pace men were back again. They did not get any rest and there tiredness showed up as the match progressed and went deep.
    If Pakistan wants to play 4 bowlers then they really need to bat long in both innings to expect good things from the bowlers otherwise they should play 5 bowlers and use them as well. But currently the batting is so weak that they might go with 4 bowlers. Therefore, they should drop Asad for Fawad and play Imam upfront at No3 for Shadab. Dropping Abid Ali after one test will be injustice to him although I think he will fail in the next test too but he deserves another test. My Playing XI
    Shan Masood
    Abid Ali
    Imam ul Haq
    Azhar Ali (C)
    Babar Azam
    Fawad Alam
    Rizwan (WK)
    Yasir
    Shaheen
    Abbas
    Naseem

  47. #47
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    We aint winning any test this time around. This was our best chance to put eng under pressure and we blew it. Misbah can look for excuses starting now...

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    Faheem needs to play.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DandyFellow View Post
    The way bowlers were bowled by Azhar, we actually went with 4 bowlers and Shadab was treated as a batsman. The purpose of playing 5 bowlers is to provide rest to pace bowlers. But all of our pacers over-bowled in the first innings. Now, the worst was that our 2nd innings folded in less than 2 sessions and our pace men were back again. They did not get any rest and there tiredness showed up as the match progressed and went deep.
    If Pakistan wants to play 4 bowlers then they really need to bat long in both innings to expect good things from the bowlers otherwise they should play 5 bowlers and use them as well. But currently the batting is so weak that they might go with 4 bowlers. Therefore, they should drop Asad for Fawad and play Imam upfront at No3 for Shadab. Dropping Abid Ali after one test will be injustice to him although I think he will fail in the next test too but he deserves another test. My Playing XI
    Shan Masood
    Abid Ali
    Imam ul Haq
    Azhar Ali (C)
    Babar Azam
    Fawad Alam
    Rizwan (WK)
    Yasir
    Shaheen
    Abbas
    Naseem
    Not really - PAK pacers bowled 18, 15 & 16 overs in first innings; that too splited in two days (28 overs bowled in day 2, with the 3 pacers bowling 20 of their 49 on day 2) & Englandís second innings started on day 4, that too beautifully poised with 80 minutes before lunch.

    Four pacers wonít work much if batsmen bat like second innings and pacers bowl like that in 4th innings. Yasir shared more than enough load while Abbas did his job - itís the two young pacers that let team down.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Not really - PAK pacers bowled 18, 15 & 16 overs in first innings; that too splited in two days (28 overs bowled in day 2, with the 3 pacers bowling 20 of their 49 on day 2) & Englandís second innings started on day 4, that too beautifully poised with 80 minutes before lunch.

    Four pacers wonít work much if batsmen bat like second innings and pacers bowl like that in 4th innings. Yasir shared more than enough load while Abbas did his job - itís the two young pacers that let team down.
    Actually I agree with that and I should re-phrase my words to convey the message. So basically, in the first innings the pace bowlers bowled the right amount of overs. But the Pakistan's 2nd Innings lasted 46.4 overs of which last 5-6 overs were played by the tail. The 2nd innings bowling came too early and as the match went deep Shaheen and Naseem showed tiredness. Abbas is medium pacer so he is different. In that sense, we should not be over-critical of Naseem and Shaheen. Also my team for 2nd test has 3 pace bowlers and 1 spinner so my point was if Shadab is going to be treated as a batsman only why not go with pure batsmen like Fawad and Imam and drop Asad and rest Shadab. What do you think?

  51. #51
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    Shadab will end up as the scapegoat and the old man wahab will be bought in and have match figures of 0-650

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Not really - PAK pacers bowled 18, 15 & 16 overs in first innings; that too splited in two days (28 overs bowled in day 2, with the 3 pacers bowling 20 of their 49 on day 2) & England’s second innings started on day 4, that too beautifully poised with 80 minutes before lunch.

    Four pacers won’t work much if batsmen bat like second innings and pacers bowl like that in 4th innings. Yasir shared more than enough load while Abbas did his job - it’s the two young pacers that let team down.
    Hey, what areas did you think the young pacers made mistakes in? I'm interested in hearing some of their issues. From what I saw though they didn't have a proper plan and were not bowling into the body especially with Woakes. They were leaking runs and couldn't suffocate them

    I genuinely wonder, would have some experience from one of Wahab or Sohail helped here?

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    Play Faheem, I get that he's no Kapil Dev but he bowled beautifully in the intra games and has the potential of picking up more wickets than the likes of Shaheen, Naseem and Abbas.

    If he can do that, why should he get bashed for his batting and the above three get away with it scot free. They should contribute with the bat as well then if they're not going to pick up many wickets.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by DandyFellow View Post
    Actually I agree with that and I should re-phrase my words to convey the message. So basically, in the first innings the pace bowlers bowled the right amount of overs. But the Pakistan's 2nd Innings lasted 46.4 overs of which last 5-6 overs were played by the tail. The 2nd innings bowling came too early and as the match went deep Shaheen and Naseem showed tiredness. Abbas is medium pacer so he is different. In that sense, we should not be over-critical of Naseem and Shaheen. Also my team for 2nd test has 3 pace bowlers and 1 spinner so my point was if Shadab is going to be treated as a batsman only why not go with pure batsmen like Fawad and Imam and drop Asad and rest Shadab. What do you think?
    I think, which I wrote in series prediction thread that the gap between two sides is too wide - if several things go in favour of PAK, they can compete; which they did in this game after winning toss on a dry surface and catching England sleeping both with bat & ball (& in field) in first Innings - still it wasnít enough and going forward I see PAK team simply crushed by the hosts. Same was true for WIN and they were crushed as well in last two Tests, but most importantly they could strike a killer blow in first Test, catching England off guard; PAK couldnít.

    I felt, Naseem & Shaheen found that Test cricket is tougher than playing SRL & BD at home - people need to manage expectations from them. Shadab as a batsman who can bowl a bit is fine because the other options are even worse. Misbah was foolish to exclude Fakhar from Test squad otherwise I would have played him everyday ahead of Shadab - better batsman and he can also definitely bowl 10-12 overs that Shadab was trusted with. Now, without Fakhar, we have to choose between Shadab & Fawad - for his 46, Shadab can be picked for one more Test. Rest players almost pick themselves bar Azhar, who is captain. People are upset with Asad understandably but he is a safe selection in this PAK line-up; was unfortunate to be run out second time. Abid still averages over 70 and Imam wonít improve the XI. If PAK really wants to strengthen bowling - drop Shadab and play Sohail; otherwise I wonít change the playing XI.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Don't bother wasting more energy on this lot.

    Come on England, make it 3-0 so this proven failed management combination of Misbah/Azhar/Waqar, and their golden boy Shafiq can be discarded once and for all.
    Yep I'll be supporting England as well.

    I was being bashed by Misbah fans when I wanted Mickey's Sri Lanka to beat Pakistan but I knew if Mickey was on the winning side, this would have been suffice for the PCB to smell the coffee and realise they've made a big blunder on appointing Misbah in place of Mickey.

  56. #56
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    Shaheen has been the biggest disappointment. Azhar & Shafiq needs to pull their hamstring and sit out.

    1. Shan
    2. Abid
    3. Imam
    4. Babar
    5. Fawad
    6. Rizwan
    7. Shadab
    8. Yasir
    9. Wahab
    10. Sohail
    11. Naseem

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    Hey, what areas did you think the young pacers made mistakes in? I'm interested in hearing some of their issues. From what I saw though they didn't have a proper plan and were not bowling into the body especially with Woakes. They were leaking runs and couldn't suffocate them

    I genuinely wonder, would have some experience from one of Wahab or Sohail helped here?
    I think PAK got early wickets in first innings which made them think itíll be easier in second time as well - went for over aggression & lost radar. Both pacers went at over 3.5, which is rare in 4th innings. Donít honk short ball would have worked even on Woakes here because when he came to bat, ball was already 40.+ overs old and bowlers were tiered - bouncers could have ended as long hops.

    Rose bowl track is much faster than this one and bouncier as well, but the surface isnít that dry therefore itíll be foolish to expect a similar return from Yasir. Not Wahab, but I donít mind Sohail over Shadab - at least heíll keep other four bowlers fresher by sharing work load. Batting gets weaker on paper, it hardly matters - Sohail can add 20-25 easily which is per from Azhar, Asad these days.

  58. #58
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    man after what has happened, how could you guys even think about the next game.

    im still raelly sad, might not be able to tune into the next game.


    "Life is Pain"
    ~House~

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    Why don't we play Sarfraz as a specialist batsmen?

    He can be our Buttler esque player, his counter-attacking style of play is suited to English pitches.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    man after what has happened, how could you guys even think about the next game.

    im still raelly sad, might not be able to tune into the next game.
    To be honest same bro... thinking to not even watch the match and waste my time

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    I would surely bench Asad for Fawad and bring in Imam for Shadab if there is not much spin at Southampton. Further as Azhar is the captain he has to play probably but, I wont play him with his reflexes at no 3 now. Shan and Fawad can contribute as 5th bowler. Abid deserves another go I think.

    I still think Shaheen and Naseem are much better than the lot on the bench but, if anything they should assess fitness and rest one by replacing him with Sohail Khan or Shinwari if necessary.

    Shan
    Abid
    Imam
    Babar
    Azhar
    Fawad
    Rizwan
    Yasir
    Naseem/ Sohail Khan/ Shinwari
    Shaheen
    Abbas

    If they want to rest Naseem, they will have to use Shaheen in short spells and full throttle.
    Serious question: whatever happened to Fawad Alamís bowling? All the c**p I heard from Misbah during the SL and BANG tests was that Haris Lazy Bum Sohail had been selected for his bowling abilities. FA has the same angle, no? Unless FA completely stopped?

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yk313 View Post
    Serious question: whatever happened to Fawad Alamís bowling? All the c**p I heard from Misbah during the SL and BANG tests was that Haris Lazy Bum Sohail had been selected for his bowling abilities. FA has the same angle, no? Unless FA completely stopped?
    He is just s roller/darter. He doesn't have ability with the ball like haris 'I may die if i tour' Sohail.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    Shaheen has been the biggest disappointment. Azhar & Shafiq needs to pull their hamstring and sit out.

    1. Shan
    2. Abid
    3. Imam
    4. Babar
    5. Fawad
    6. Rizwan
    7. Shadab
    8. Yasir
    9. Wahab
    10. Sohail
    11. Naseem
    Hahah nice one. The reality is there is a better chance of seeing Sarfraz and Iftikhar than of AS or AA pulling a hammie.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacy with wisdom View Post
    He is just s roller/darter. He doesn't have ability with the ball like haris 'I may die if i tour' Sohail.
    Aah OK, last saw him so long ago (2014 I think). Fair enough, but I just feel the difference can be bridged using Shan etc. And we know Fawad will give his all.

    Re. Haris Sohail: watched a few clips of our cricketers playing dumb charades on the Youtube channel of PCT. The other player had to guess which player they had in mind. Multiple people had HS in mind. Guess the clues they gave to the other person:

    - Just wants to bat and does not want to do anything else
    - Does not want to train
    - Slow to move (something like that)

    The other person guessed it Lol

  65. #65
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    Team changes:
    Fawad for Azhar Ali.
    Imam or Fakhar for Abid Ali.
    Not sure of spin option, but if Yasir cant do it on this track he will never do it.
    Cant rely on wickets by bad shots. Replace with specialist spinner.

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    One thing is for sure - Babar has learned to not give his wicket cheaply.

    The shots he played were not needed.

    Iím expecting him to bounce back with a hundred.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thephenom View Post
    Shadab will end up as the scapegoat and the old man wahab will be bought in and have match figures of 0-650
    True, king scatter gun

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mueez View Post
    One thing is for sure - Babar has learned to not give his wicket cheaply.

    The shots he played were not needed.

    Iím expecting him to bounce back with a hundred.
    I think you mean has not learnt?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    I think PAK got early wickets in first innings which made them think itíll be easier in second time as well - went for over aggression & lost radar. Both pacers went at over 3.5, which is rare in 4th innings. Donít honk short ball would have worked even on Woakes here because when he came to bat, ball was already 40.+ overs old and bowlers were tiered - bouncers could have ended as long hops.

    Rose bowl track is much faster than this one and bouncier as well, but the surface isnít that dry therefore itíll be foolish to expect a similar return from Yasir. Not Wahab, but I donít mind Sohail over Shadab - at least heíll keep other four bowlers fresher by sharing work load. Batting gets weaker on paper, it hardly matters - Sohail can add 20-25 easily which is per from Azhar, Asad these days.
    Interesting. Yes, I think a more negative line could have helped to bring the run rate down and bring pressure but the youngsters didn't know how to deal with a counter attack.

    Well that sucks about Rose Bowl, but just gotta hope Babar steps up and Pakistan can somehow compete.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mueez View Post
    Faheem needs to play.
    Lol what is he going to do

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    Abid, Shan, Azhar*, Babar, Asad, Rizwan+, Faheem, Yasir, Sohail, Abbas, Shaheen
    This is the weakest batting line up i've seen in a long time, i don't think it's possible to go this weak into the game we just lost largely based on our incapabilities with batting.

    I think for Southampton we'll see 4 bowlers (Sohail, Shaheen, Abbas and Yasir) and the part time seamers will bowl a few overs too.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    This is the weakest batting line up i've seen in a long time, i don't think it's possible to go this weak into the game we just lost largely based on our incapabilities with batting.

    I think for Southampton we'll see 4 bowlers (Sohail, Shaheen, Abbas and Yasir) and the part time seamers will bowl a few overs too.
    I agree that Sohail Khan has to come in for Naseem Shah, but he cannot bowl too many overs so I think Faheem should play as an all-rounder.

    Itís about the same batting as the recent match. Shadab is a slightly better bat than Faheem, but Sohail is way better than Naseem. He has a Test match 50 against Australia.


    "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." --Aristotle

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    Lol what is he going to do
    Iíll take Faheem any day over Shadab in English conditions. Their batting is about the same, but Faheem can bowl okay. Shadab doesnít know how to bowl.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    Iíll take Faheem any day over Shadab in English conditions. Their batting is about the same, but Faheem can bowl okay. Shadab doesnít know how to bowl.
    Faheem did precious little in the practice matches. Can't remember the last time he did anything of note anywhere in the world tbh. PSL was his last major appearance and he didn't really perform there either.

    While he might add much needed balance to the team by virtue of being the only pace all-rounder we've got, unfortunately i feel he just isn't very good at cricket.

    I definitely agree with you regarding Sohail Khan not being able to bowl long spells which weakens the 4 bowler strategy. It's a real tough one and there's negatives to all possible options.

  75. #75
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    Azhar Ali should have no place in the team unless he wants to open.

    Azhar Ali
    Shan Masood
    Asad Shafiq
    Babar Azam
    Fawad Alam
    Mohammad Rizwan
    Shadab Khan / Haider Ali / Sohail Khan
    Yasir Shah
    Mohammad Abbas
    Shaheen Afridi
    Naseem Shah

    I know it's early for Haider to debut but he is an impact player. If he gets going...he will score plenty more than Shadab.

  76. #76
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    Try replacing Asad Shafiq with Fawad Alam and replace Shadab with Sohail Khan.

  77. #77
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    This is Pakistan cricket. They are at their devastating best when they are hurt down and play like cornered Tigers.

    So I expect a comeback win.

    We are going to 3rd test with the series tied 1-1

  78. #78
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    Lots of pessimism above.

    On an emotional level I do understand why, after what happened yesterday, but actually the result was very close and came down to some extremely slender margins. For example, Woakes hit the winning runs with an edged boundary, but if that ball had gone to a fielder for a catch, then Englandís genuine tail-end batters would have still needed four to win with just two wickets left, and who knows what would have happened then.

    I agree that itís difficult to see Pakistan winning the series now ó England rarely, if ever are going to drop two consecutive home Tests ó but I see no reason why Pakistan canít win at least one of the remaining games, and then if the other game were to be affected by rain, the series could even end up shared as a 1-1 tie.

    The most likely result from this series now (imo) is an England win by a minimum 2-1 margin; but anything can happen in the great game of Test cricket and I urge everyone to watch again on Thursday.

  79. #79
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    Abbas has a dodgy ankle and Naseem needs a rest.

    Iíd reluctantly retain the Top Six, but then go for:

    7. Shadab Khan
    8. Yasir Shah or Faheem Ashraf (dependent on the pitch)
    9. Mohammad Amir
    10. Haris Rauf
    11. Shaheen Shah Afridi

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Abbas has a dodgy ankle and Naseem needs a rest.

    I’d reluctantly retain the Top Six, but then go for:

    7. Shadab Khan
    8. Yasir Shah or Faheem Ashraf (dependent on the pitch)
    9. Mohammad Amir
    10. Haris Rauf
    11. Shaheen Shah Afridi
    Not happening.

    Misbah is stupid.

    He will pick Fawad for Shadab.

    Yasir WILL 10000% play

    Amir defo will not

    Michael Jackson has more chance of playing than Haris.

    Give up with this team as long as Misbah is around.


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