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  1. #1
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    More experience is needed in the pace bowling attack

    I mostly blame the defeat due to lack of experience in the pace attack. The youngsters couldn't deal with the counter attack and didn't have the bowling IQ to choke up the runs, bowl a negative line and make it difficult for the batsman to accelerate. And for gods sake why were they not bowling bouncers into Woakes?

    This can all be solved with experience. We need one of Wahab or Sohail in for the next test, this will shore.up the tail, and give one of the youngsters a rest.

    Naseem really.needs a rest so I think he should sit out next test.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    I mostly blame the defeat due to lack of experience in the pace attack. The youngsters couldn't deal with the counter attack and didn't have the bowling IQ to choke up the runs, bowl a negative line and make it difficult for the batsman to accelerate. And for gods sake why were they not bowling bouncers into Woakes?

    This can all be solved with experience. We need one of Wahab or Sohail in for the next test, this will shore.up the tail, and give one of the youngsters a rest.

    Naseem really.needs a rest so I think he should sit out next test.
    Sohail Khan's fitness is terrible and he doesn't last the full test. Reflected in his record where he averages below 25 in the first innings and around 80 something in the second one.

    Wahab has been away from the game for too long and is retired. No point playing him for two matches when we aren't even sure he can get back into the groove of test cricket.

    These guys are the best we have at the moment and have loads of potential. Their inexperience can be frustrating to deal with but they are still the best options we have.

  3. #3
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    Wahab is the one I'll go for if he's fit to last five days. Wahab, Shaheen, Abbas and Yasir/Naseem depending on the conditions.

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    No, this is the way forward. There’s no good bowlers who are experienced, the youngsters we have right now should have been groomed when Wahab Riaz and others were playing for a blend of experience and new talent.

    That ship has sailed, and we must persist with the new guys instead of forcing in old past its who won’t make a difference and aside from experience are inferior players.

  5. #5
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    Our current three pacemen are the best and they will only gain experience if they play. I personally feel our bowling was excellent throughout the match and if everyone is fit it should be retained. Naseem can be rested if required. It is actually our batting which is the problem that is not performing even with experience. One thing people are forgetting that our pace attack bowled more than half of the 3rd Day's Play and by the end of the day they were batting. They had to ball early in the 4th day which means that they did not get any rest which was apparent on Shaheen and Naseem. Another reason was Azhar managed bowling as if we had 4 bowlers not 5 and that is why everyone overbowled in the 1st innings. There are small things that matter and these are some mistakes that should be highlighted.

  6. #6
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    Ideally Mohammad Abbas, a more seasoned seamer coming off strong recent FC performances like Sameen Gul or Ehsan Adil, and one of Shaheen Afridi and Naseem Shah would form your seam trio.

    That way Shaheen and Naseem can learn the intricacies of international cricket at their own pace.

    Instead we've already loaded the burden of winning Tests away in England and Australia on their shoulders. Pakistan cricket for you.

  7. #7
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    This same team would have won had Mickey still been coach and Azhar wasn't the captain. Heck the much maligned Sarfaraz would have won comfortably.


    You people wanted this shameless buddha Misbah as czar of Pakistan cricket. Now suffer. I'm just glad he is being heckled and abused from all sides. He deserves it and more.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Ideally Mohammad Abbas, a more seasoned seamer coming off strong recent FC performances like Sameen Gul or Ehsan Adil, and one of Shaheen Afridi and Naseem Shah would form your seam trio.

    That way Shaheen and Naseem can learn the intricacies of international cricket at their own pace.

    Instead we've already loaded the burden of winning Tests away in England and Australia on their shoulders. Pakistan cricket for you.
    I hope they give ehsan adil another chance. The guy is good and deserves it.


    Pakistan has the option of sohail khan but i wonder if he has the fitness to last in second innings

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    This same team would have won had Mickey still been coach and Azhar wasn't the captain. Heck the much maligned Sarfaraz would have won comfortably.


    You people wanted this shameless buddha Misbah as czar of Pakistan cricket. Now suffer. I'm just glad he is being heckled and abused from all sides. He deserves it and more.
    Wow you were a big critic of Mickey so reading that statement from you really shows your frustration with Misbah.

    Look Mickey lost a couple of close Tests himself that we should've won, but I know his heart was in the right place. He was not afraid of giving the seniors a dressing down like he did after the 2nd innings of the Centurion Test vs South Africa.

    Misbah is too loyal towards the guys he invested in. Azhar should never have been appointed Test captain given his record in the last three years, and Shafiq was never the right investment ahead of guys like Fawad, Saud or Salahuddin in the first place.

  10. #10
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    Need to get Faheem Ashraf in to shore up the bowling and to have the bowlers capable to running in at full steam in all their spells. You only need one proper spinner in England

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Wow you were a big critic of Mickey so reading that statement from you really shows your frustration with Misbah.

    Look Mickey lost a couple of close Tests himself that we should've won, but I know his heart was in the right place. He was not afraid of giving the seniors a dressing down like he did after the 2nd innings of the Centurion Test vs South Africa.

    Misbah is too loyal towards the guys he invested in. Azhar should never have been appointed Test captain given his record in the last three years, and Shafiq was never the right investment ahead of guys like Fawad, Saud or Salahuddin in the first place.
    We have had this convo before. I was a big critic of Mickey but rather than finding someone better we went ten steps back and appointed Misbah.

    That's like drinking bleach to cure sore throat.


    Mein inko rolaonga

  12. #12
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    The bowling group is not to blame, they performed well , they lacked the competitive edge of not playing for a while, a combo of poor captaincy, excellent partnership by woakes/buttler and a second innings collapse in a dominant position.

  13. #13
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    For God's sake solve two problems as quick as possible:

    1. Need more experience and skill; this level is too much for both Shaheen, Naseem together
    2. Three nr 11's in the UK is a sin.

    Solution?

    Talk to Mohammad Amir even if he features in one test it could set the series up for us. Also need Wahab Riaz so that we can add at the least 50-60 runs to the total.

    We avoided humiliation in World Cup 2019 by adding these two to the squad. Remember? Their experience with the ball and skill with the bat could make a difference.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  14. #14
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    you cant seriously even consider dropping naseem
    Dont be ridiculous. This is just typical post-game knee-jerk schizophrenia. Drop asad for fawad. That's all you can really do. This performance doesn't warrant a lot of changes, despite the 2nd innings batting meltdown
    Last edited by majiz; 9th August 2020 at 01:52.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Wow you were a big critic of Mickey so reading that statement from you really shows your frustration with Misbah.

    Look Mickey lost a couple of close Tests himself that we should've won, but I know his heart was in the right place. He was not afraid of giving the seniors a dressing down like he did after the 2nd innings of the Centurion Test vs South Africa.

    Misbah is too loyal towards the guys he invested in. Azhar should never have been appointed Test captain given his record in the last three years, and Shafiq was never the right investment ahead of guys like Fawad, Saud or Salahuddin in the first place.
    Misbah has made some selection errors for sure. But Mickey new nothing about first class cricket, 0 chance he'd picked Ehsan or sameen.

    If I was selector, I'd get Yamin as the all rounder at 7, Zafar at 8, then Abbas/Ehsan/Shaheen as pacers. Would provide pace, angle and height options. I hope Misbah picks somethiny like this some day.

  16. #16
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    Keep the dinosaurs at bay, pakistan have a very good attack currently, you got greats like warne , akram full of praise yet wrist slitters here are so impatient

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by majiz View Post
    you cant seriously even consider dropping naseem
    Dont be ridiculous. This is just typical post-game knee-jerk schizophrenia. Drop asad for fawad. That's all you can really do. This performance doesn't warrant a lot of changes, despite the 2nd innings batting meltdown
    You need to think about Naseem Sha's work load management as well. Three tests in 3 weeks after 6 months is too much for him.

    Pak is taking a great risk with his career.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Need to get Faheem Ashraf in to shore up the bowling and to have the bowlers capable to running in at full steam in all their spells. You only need one proper spinner in England
    Very important point. Playing Shadab was futile honestly.

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    The blame should go to the batsman, for their pathetic score of 169 in the second innings.

  20. #20
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    Wahab and Amir at test level are dam useless, ok they might add a few more runs but both lack quality as bowlers


  21. #21
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    Noone wants imran or sohail khan to bowl
    We have this image of an exciting attacking talented Pakistan cricket full of young and dashing spinners and pacers and master blasters who have cousins who used to be wicket keepers for Pakistan and a captain of quetta waiting on the bench to come and claim his throne

    Not sure where experience medium paced bowlers come into this
    I thought Misbah would tone down on Arthur's adventurism but he seems to have turned it up a notch


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

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    It's there......sat in the hotel at Old Trafford and was watching the match.



  23. #23
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    Amir please change your decision fgs...

    Your country needs you.

  24. #24
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    Why are people calling for Amir’s return? He was useless at test level post ban apart from his last series.

    The current attack is the best we have ATM.

  25. #25
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    The game was lost by the dismal 2nd innings score. Even the 1st innings score was courtesy of some poor bowling by the English and Masood being dropped twice. We are a batsmen short and there's no reason for Shadab AND Yasir to both play. 2nd innings score of 250+ would have been enough, as long as Azhar kept attacking once we had them 5 down.

    If we don't get the batting line up changed next couple of games you can bet we will struggle to get 220+.

    Misbah's mindset of tactics is mirrored in Azhar Ali. Just went with the overs and allowed Butler and Woakes to dictate the game.

    Our bowling is on point, we just need the batsmen to stand up.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mueez View Post
    Amir please change your decision fgs...

    Your country needs you.
    No it doesn't. Every game doesn't need a knee jerk reaction.
    We were winning most of the way through the game.
    We just needed a sharper captain. Something we don't have right now.
    Let these guys get experience.
    Current bowling attack is fine. May want to play faheem/Sohail for Yasir and get shadab to bowl more.
    Won't mind a few changes to the batting, but they won't be knee jerk,


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  27. #27
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    Other than Abbas the other bowlers did not have plans.

    Naseem good prospect but direction in bouncer and Yorker not perfected.

    Shadab used too late when no pressure.

    Yasir got two wickets by good balls, Woakes first innings and Outside first innings.
    All other wickets were more luck than plan.
    No Googly or variation..... he is going to cost more games than he wins.
    Shame he has no decent variation.

  28. #28
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    Sameen Gul should have been selected. Is Misbah or the selectors even watching domestic cricket?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    No it doesn't. Every game doesn't need a knee jerk reaction.
    We were winning most of the way through the game.
    We just needed a sharper captain. Something we don't have right now.
    Let these guys get experience.
    Current bowling attack is fine. May want to play faheem/Sohail for Yasir and get shadab to bowl more.
    Won't mind a few changes to the batting, but they won't be knee jerk,

    There will be no knee jerk reaction.
    What we have currently is the bowlers are waiting for a wicket not taking a wicket.
    Pakistan with 277 on board with there bowling hardly ever lose a game.
    Its just bowlers don't know how to bowl a bouncer then Yorker.

    Currently the England bowlers look like they are going to get a wicket every ball but Pakistan
    bowlers don't due to negative plans and skills.

  30. #30
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    If we had competent options on the bench, then maybe this would be ideal. However, since we have the likes of Imran Khan, Wahab Riaz and Sohail Khan, I would persist with the current trio. You have to be patient - these guys are young and they will make mistakes, but their upside is huge. If Naseem is having fitness issues, then rest him, otherwise he should play the second Test.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Viper View Post
    If we had competent options on the bench, then maybe this would be ideal. However, since we have the likes of Imran Khan, Wahab Riaz and Sohail Khan, I would persist with the current trio. You have to be patient - these guys are young and they will make mistakes, but their upside is huge. If Naseem is having fitness issues, then rest him, otherwise he should play the second Test.
    Really need to manage Naseem's work load. It's big risk to play him in the next two tests in a few weeks time after not having bowled for 6 months.

    Need to address this before we come to regret it ...


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suleiman View Post
    No, this is the way forward. There’s no good bowlers who are experienced, the youngsters we have right now should have been groomed when Wahab Riaz and others were playing for a blend of experience and new talent.

    That ship has sailed, and we must persist with the new guys instead of forcing in old past its who won’t make a difference and aside from experience are inferior players.
    Probably your best option. Remember also that Pakistan players haven't even played a single proper FC match for over 6 months. Need to run some games into them before you can judge. It is worse for a players development to pick & drop them 6 times for single games.

    There were some excellent sessions where the quicks maintained discipline even without many wickets for 2 hours. That is a good sign. Give them the chance to repeat that more consistently & find their groove & confidence.

    If there is one thing Pakistan knows already it is that Wahab & Sohail Khan are not the answer to a question.

  33. #33
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    Yes, what's needed is another 35-year old. Wahab, who has an average of 35 and SR of 60, and hasn't taken a Test wicket in almost 3 years will be perfect!

  34. #34
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    Even Rahat, Amir and Wahab defended 280 in 2016 on a pitch that was doing much less than this. Shows why experience is important.

  35. #35
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    For God sake give them time please even if they lose series don't drop them these losing will make them more stronger and you actually get more inspiration when you lose and you work even more harderthis was Shaheen and naseeem's first match in England and in such situation give them time please don't be so impatient you guys are no better than misbah one thing i can sayy because if you guys were coaches players would be dropped after every match

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    Even Rahat, Amir and Wahab defended 280 in 2016 on a pitch that was doing much less than this. Shows why experience is important.
    The ball reversed like crazy in that match
    So you cant compare. Give that ball to Naseem and shaheen and they would have ended this innings very easily.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrongun View Post
    Probably your best option. Remember also that Pakistan players haven't even played a single proper FC match for over 6 months. Need to run some games into them before you can judge. It is worse for a players development to pick & drop them 6 times for single games.

    There were some excellent sessions where the quicks maintained discipline even without many wickets for 2 hours. That is a good sign. Give them the chance to repeat that more consistently & find their groove & confidence.

    If there is one thing Pakistan knows already it is that Wahab & Sohail Khan are not the answer to a question.
    But see the issue is that management especially Misbah who is selector/coach/emir of the team these days does not traditionally give young or new players a long rope, they panic after a “failure” (quotations because as said pacers did a p decent job given their experience) and call in the seniors again who instill assurance with 125 Kph pies With excessive grunting and huffing, or Off target and brainless 140 kph deliveries.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    I mostly blame the defeat due to lack of experience in the pace attack. The youngsters couldn't deal with the counter attack and didn't have the bowling IQ to choke up the runs, bowl a negative line and make it difficult for the batsman to accelerate. And for gods sake why were they not bowling bouncers into Woakes?

    This can all be solved with experience. We need one of Wahab or Sohail in for the next test, this will shore.up the tail, and give one of the youngsters a rest.

    Naseem really.needs a rest so I think he should sit out next test.
    I donít mind the experience of a 30íish year old like Mohammad Amir.

    But absolutely definitely emphatically not a mid-thirties Grandpa like Sohail or Wahab.

    Everything that is wrong with this team is too many veterans, too many kids, nobody aged 22-29 except for Babar and Rizwan who are the best two players.

    No more Grandpas!

    Age breakdown for the First Test

    Over 30: 6
    22-29: 2
    21 and under: 3

    In other words:
    - 2 players at their peak.
    - 6 geriatric players in decline
    - 3 kids who are still developing

  39. #39
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    call me crazy but hasan ali would have been useful in these conditions.

    hasan - he is injured though right?
    amir ? hope he can play

    wahab is a no but he would be my very last option.

    actually why not bring in usman shinwari ?

    shinwari
    naseem
    Abbas?

  40. #40
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    Wahab would've cleaned up the tail in no time. He's done it many times. Plus he bowls accurate yorkers and bouncers. Handy with the bat too. Having said that, current pace attack is brilliant if lacking in experience but if Naseem is sore don't play him in 2nd test. Need to manage Naseem's workload. He surely shouldn't play all 3 tests. I would've played Wahab instead of Shadab for this game tho.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suleiman View Post
    No, this is the way forward. There’s no good bowlers who are experienced, the youngsters we have right now should have been groomed when Wahab Riaz and others were playing for a blend of experience and new talent.

    That ship has sailed, and we must persist with the new guys instead of forcing in old past its who won’t make a difference and aside from experience are inferior players.
    Exactly there is no exp fast bowlers in the camp. If they want to give youngsters a chance then they should have taken Ehsan adil, Sameen gul as well. Naseem when roped in didn’t have played enough FC matches and if he is only 17 then still he is very young to play test matches. Pak always have this issue of selecting players very early in their career in 20s and below, if they fail They forget them forever. Earlier I was vouching for Haider Ali’s inclusion in tests as no.6 when people talk about the inconsistency towards these youngster beauties when they fail as it happened in the past to Usman Salahuddin, Sami Aslam, Umar Amin etc.

    persist with these youngsters and they will definitely come good with experience. In foresight give rest and rotate their workloads.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadi Rizvi View Post
    Wahab would've cleaned up the tail in no time. He's done it many times. Plus he bowls accurate yorkers and bouncers. Handy with the bat too. Having said that, current pace attack is brilliant if lacking in experience but if Naseem is sore don't play him in 2nd test. Need to manage Naseem's workload. He surely shouldn't play all 3 tests. I would've played Wahab instead of Shadab for this game tho.
    Many here in PP like you forget the inns of Shadab in the first inns. His inns gave the impetus to the slow and sluggish going on the 2nd day. It was 187-5 at lunch and after lunch there was 6 overs before they can take the new ball , Shadab attacked and quickly got the score to 210 and the 80 run partnership helped Shan get to his 100 and after that he looked more assured on the crease and played really well to get 156 and the team score to 326 which made the match sway Pakistanís way.. Iím pretty sure without Shadabs inns there Pak would be 80- 90 runs short and wouldnít have had that 100+ lead.
    Last edited by ask_analyse_act; 10th August 2020 at 13:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadi Rizvi View Post
    Wahab would've cleaned up the tail in no time. He's done it many times. Plus he bowls accurate yorkers and bouncers. Handy with the bat too. Having said that, current pace attack is brilliant if lacking in experience but if Naseem is sore don't play him in 2nd test. Need to manage Naseem's workload. He surely shouldn't play all 3 tests. I would've played Wahab instead of Shadab for this game tho.
    Just because he could do it as a 30 year old in 2016 doesnít mean he could do it as a 34 year old now.

  44. #44
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    We finally have a potentially great pace attack and people already wanna poke holes...Any other captain in the world would've won this match with that bowling attack. If the bowlers are inexperienced Azhar as a captain, and a veteran of 75+ tests, should be guiding them in field setting, plan of attack, encouragement etc. Instead he himself was more lost than the bowlers when it came to a gameplan and so reactive that it no doubt put more pressure on the bowlers. He took out a slip after the first boundary in a chase of 277! that immediately set the tone. He started a crucial third session with his fifth bowler instead of a quick or even Yasir. After an edge fell short of first, who was far too deep, he still didn't move up the slips. He had no sense of calm about him and often looked like the most rattled figure on the field. The bowlers can ultimately only do so much when they're hamstrung by the captain. This pace attack just needs patience and experience playing together. Under better leadership I've no doubt they'll win many matches for Pakistan in the future.
    Last edited by shady; 10th August 2020 at 13:11.

  45. #45
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    Stick with the young guns. This is how they will get experience. However, after first test defeat its a stark reminder that Amir’s test retirement was really selfish.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    call me crazy but hasan ali would have been useful in these conditions.

    hasan - he is injured though right?
    amir ? hope he can play

    wahab is a no but he would be my very last option.

    actually why not bring in usman shinwari ?

    shinwari
    naseem
    Abbas?
    Shaheen is way better than Shinwari in any format of the game.


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  47. #47
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    In this regard the pace bowling lineup should be Wahab Riaz, Sohail Khan and Imran Khan snr.

  48. #48
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    Problem for Pak in the last decade has been to find that perfect mix and to be honest some of the wounds during this period are self inflicted.

    Interestingly Sohail Khan at 36 years of age has same number of test matches under his belt as Shaheen Shah who is 20. Ofcourse Sohail has tons of FC experience and I personally like his skillset but, question comes in that why wasnt he selected regularly when he was at his peak. Peak for fast bowler is is around that mid to late 20s age.

    I dont mind if he is selected but, as many posters have asked why is it that we either have teenagers or pacers on the wrong side of their 30s. Skillset aside, Abbas and Shinwari in the whole squad are only pacers with age of under 30 and have reasonable FC experience as well which to be honest is unlike any other team in test cricket at the moment.

    I personally think when Amir retired and Hassan got injured it was high time to get couple of pacers in their mid 20s who have done decently in domestic cricket over the years and have good experience could have been brought in but, we went with Imran Khan Snr in Aus and now requested Wahab to be available and selected Sohail Khan along with them.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Problem for Pak in the last decade has been to find that perfect mix and to be honest some of the wounds during this period are self inflicted.

    Interestingly Sohail Khan at 36 years of age has same number of test matches under his belt as Shaheen Shah who is 20. Ofcourse Sohail has tons of FC experience and I personally like his skillset but, question comes in that why wasnt he selected regularly when he was at his peak. Peak for fast bowler is is around that mid to late 20s age.

    I dont mind if he is selected but, as many posters have asked why is it that we either have teenagers or pacers on the wrong side of their 30s. Skillset aside, Abbas and Shinwari in the whole squad are only pacers with age of under 30 and have reasonable FC experience as well which to be honest is unlike any other team in test cricket at the moment.

    I personally think when Amir retired and Hassan got injured it was high time to get couple of pacers in their mid 20s who have done decently in domestic cricket over the years and have good experience could have been brought in but, we went with Imran Khan Snr in Aus and now requested Wahab to be available and selected Sohail Khan along with them.
    I think an ideal time to start inducting players is in the 21-24 range. This way you can get a good number of years of service from the player at their peak. Not everyone will have the motivation or the required performance to play well into their thirties.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    I think an ideal time to start inducting players is in the 21-24 range. This way you can get a good number of years of service from the player at their peak. Not everyone will have the motivation or the required performance to play well into their thirties.
    I agree, that is the ideal time to induct in fast bowlers. However, I have no issues if they wanted to groom Naseem and Shaheen early considering their potential but, when that was the case I think it would have been better to have some experienced mid 20s (24-28) pacers to provide the much needed support and balance to the team.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    I agree, that is the ideal time to induct in fast bowlers. However, I have no issues if they wanted to groom Naseem and Shaheen early considering their potential but, when that was the case I think it would have been better to have some experienced mid 20s (24-28) pacers to provide the much needed support and balance to the team.
    exactly. Only need one of them plus abbas and one of hasan or shinwari

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    I agree, that is the ideal time to induct in fast bowlers. However, I have no issues if they wanted to groom Naseem and Shaheen early considering their potential but, when that was the case I think it would have been better to have some experienced mid 20s (24-28) pacers to provide the much needed support and balance to the team.
    Agreed, if younger and have the skill and potential that's even better. With this squad at the moment, there isn't a good balance. The main bowlers are either uncles or kids.

  53. #53
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    I guarantee had amir played this game along with maybe hasan, pakistan would have won the first test. Inexperience definitely cost pakistan. What about sameen gul? he has good first class experience and last i recall had quite a good FC average.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Just because he could do it as a 30 year old in 2016 doesn’t mean he could do it as a 34 year old now.
    I'm pretty sure a 4 year gap without injuries could only decrease your pace at most, not your skillset or ability to bowl yorkers/bouncers.

    Regardless, I still feel captaincy easily cost us this game. I'm very sure Shaheen/Naseem can bowl yorkers and bouncers but the tactics weren't on point.

  55. #55
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    It seems when you blindly follow Misbah after several years, you end up believing picking oldies is the way forward. What a surprise that is!

  56. #56
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    Correct our inexperienced pace attack is the problem not the coach or captain.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    In this regard the pace bowling lineup should be Wahab Riaz, Sohail Khan and Imran Khan snr.
    You being serious

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    Correct our inexperienced pace attack is the problem not the coach or captain.
    Who would you have in the team

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    It seems when you blindly follow Misbah after several years, you end up believing picking oldies is the way forward. What a surprise that is!
    Nah, this is out of our squad options. If I was the selector/coach I'd have Ehsan Adil as a must for th squad. I'd also consider the likes of Mir Hamza and Sameen Gul.

    I do agree Misbah made some selection errors this time around.

    I meant experience as in not oldies, but mid 20s pacers who have at least 30-40 FC games.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Who would you have in the team
    Iíd keep Shaheen drop Naseem for someone like Wahab in the current set up. Naseem had a poor showing for a bowler that was overhyped. And plus near the end he looked like he had a lot of fatigue. If Pakistan want any future with him they gotta manage him better.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    I’d keep Shaheen drop Naseem for someone like Wahab in the current set up. Naseem had a poor showing for a bowler that was overhyped. And plus near the end he looked like he had a lot of fatigue. If Pakistan want any future with him they gotta manage him better.
    I wouldnt drop him that would dent his confidence I no wahab can bat but can he bowl long spells and keep his speed up high not to sure tbh.i dont think Pakistan have a tour coming up within a month so enough time for him to get rest

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    I wouldnt drop him that would dent his confidence I no wahab can bat but can he bowl long spells and keep his speed up high not to sure tbh.i dont think Pakistan have a tour coming up within a month so enough time for him to get rest

    Its not really dropping its managing his workload. He looks very fragile as a bowler compared to the others. Needs time to develop those muscles. One of the biggest issues with Pakistan is them over working there bowlers. That is why we must develop a rotating policy. Build competition amongst five bowlers.

    When it comes to Wahab. I am aware he cant bowl longer spells. With him you get a bowler who can run in hard to give you express deliveries. If you want lethal bouncers he is your guy. He can bat a bit too. Has loads of experience in helping Naseem and Shaheen.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    Its not really dropping its managing his workload. He looks very fragile as a bowler compared to the others. Needs time to develop those muscles. One of the biggest issues with Pakistan is them over working there bowlers. That is why we must develop a rotating policy. Build competition amongst five bowlers.

    When it comes to Wahab. I am aware he cant bowl longer spells. With him you get a bowler who can run in hard to give you express deliveries. If you want lethal bouncers he is your guy. He can bat a bit too. Has loads of experience in helping Naseem and Shaheen.
    That's were the development of the young bowlers come in
    For example I belive akif javed should be in and around the test side and husnain,rauf ehsan adil,sameen gull.

    I dont think they will go with wahab if he was couple years younger and can bowl them long spells then yes defo should be in the team.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    That's were the development of the young bowlers come in
    For example I belive akif javed should be in and around the test side and husnain,rauf ehsan adil,sameen gull.

    I dont think they will go with wahab if he was couple years younger and can bowl them long spells then yes defo should be in the team.
    Yeah I agree they should pick young bowlers between 20s to 30s to see which ones can develop to be the next star. Instead of having one leader of the pack we need multiple. Kinda like what Australia is doing with Starc, Pattingson etc.

    Out of those you listed do you think Husnain and Rauf have interest in bowling in Test cricket?

    Out of the bowlers we have available I trust Wahab more than someone like Shinwari. Although Sohail Khan is not a terrible choice. He has terrible stamina issues though.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    I’d keep Shaheen drop Naseem for someone like Wahab in the current set up. Naseem had a poor showing for a bowler that was overhyped. And plus near the end he looked like he had a lot of fatigue. If Pakistan want any future with him they gotta manage him better.
    I am not sure which game you saw but Naseem bowled well.

  66. #66
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    Naseem and Shaheen both need to play these tests to gain valuable experience for the next tours. I do not why we think some player will come and do wonders from first day. First tour of any country is tough and Naseem is more of a reverse swing bowler and for that the whole team needs to work on the ball. Our team failed in that in the last innings.

  67. #67
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    What did our experienced batting do?

    Experience accounts for nothing when you simply aren’t good enough.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    Yeah I agree they should pick young bowlers between 20s to 30s to see which ones can develop to be the next star. Instead of having one leader of the pack we need multiple. Kinda like what Australia is doing with Starc, Pattingson etc.

    Out of those you listed do you think Husnain and Rauf have interest in bowling in Test cricket?

    Out of the bowlers we have available I trust Wahab more than someone like Shinwari. Although Sohail Khan is not a terrible choice. He has terrible stamina issues though.
    Am not to sure tbh if they interested in playing test cricket only time will tell

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    Nah, this is out of our squad options. If I was the selector/coach I'd have Ehsan Adil as a must for th squad. I'd also consider the likes of Mir Hamza and Sameen Gul.

    I do agree Misbah made some selection errors this time around.

    I meant experience as in not oldies, but mid 20s pacers who have at least 30-40 FC games.
    In that case I take what I said back. I read your thread opener and had thought it was clear that you wanted the likes Imran Khan and Sohail Khan, but obviously not.

  70. #70
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    In a perfect world Shaheen would be 4th choice and Naseem 5th choice in England. Both learning from the main 3 pace bowlers.

    Sadly Pakistan cricket is far from perfect in many aspects.



  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    In a perfect world Shaheen would be 4th choice and Naseem 5th choice in England. Both learning from the main 3 pace bowlers.

    Sadly Pakistan cricket is far from perfect in many aspects.
    18 and 19 year old be it batsmen or bowler are groomed and are kept in the scheme of things. They should slowly play dead rubbers or replace another injured player or against weaker teams and slowly become regulars. Thatís how transition works.

    Just because someone is talented at the junior level doesnít mean that within an year those guys will be spearheads replacing every other bowler.

    Looking at Naseem Shah you can clearly spot 2 things. The obvious talent and the fact that he is still raw and lacks match fitness. No matter what the jokes about his age are online, he is max not more than 20 so no excuse that on day 3-4 of the test match he is bending down like a grandpa to pick up the ball from the boundary. This isnít one off, wasnít he injured in Aus too after a couple of fast spells?

  72. #72
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    I think there is one disadvantage for Naseem and that's his height.

    Shaheen is very tall and that height gives him an advantage.

    Pakistan probably should continue with Abbas, Shaheen, and Naseem.



  73. #73
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    What's wrong with Naseem height he is as tall as abbas he has smaller legs that gives the illusion of short height but he looks equal to abbas

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local.Dada View Post
    This isn’t one off, wasn’t he injured in Aus too after a couple of fast spells?
    Nope. But he had a serious injury in late 2018/early 2019 after which he made some changes to his bowling action and a minor one earlier this year due to which he missed a couple of matches.


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