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  1. #1
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    For those calling for Azhar Ali’s head…

    Who do you want to captain?

    Abid Ali
    Naseem Shah
    Mohammed Asif
    Showboy Actor
    Noor Jehan

    There is no alternative.....now get behind a decent man and support the team.


    Bad Boys, Bad Boys....What you gonna do when the ICC come for you

  2. #2
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    It was because of azhar that the opposition lost 5 wickets for 115 runs. That itself was magnificent.

    It was the first time azhar was captaining in such a run chase.

    Problem is, everyone was celebrating that they had won and didnt expect this. Thus they are after azhar for ruining their own celebrations. They blame Azhar for getting relaxed when in reality it was the fans themselves.

    Anyways, there isn't any replacement captain. Shan Masood doesn't have a permanent spot in the team. He could do bad in the next four innings and find himself out of the team. Guy makes 150 runs and people want him captain.

    Babar Azam is the only candidate but i wonder if he has enough game knowledge to captain in test.


    "Life is Pain"
    ~House~

  3. #3
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    Shan Masood.

  4. #4
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    Look, this excuse has been run into the ground for every mediocre captain in Pakistan.

    Either you keep mediocrity or take a risk to begin a new path.

    You cannot move forward unless you try. If that means a few losses, so be it. This is a team where a majority of the key players are youthful. You simply have to invest.

    I can remember people calling for Babarís head because he failed to find his feet in Test cricket for the first two years. Now what? He has proved his backing was well worth it in the end.

    Hasnít Pakistan always been a nation that performs due to blooding youth? What has experience and seniority garnered in the last decade. Look at the numbers!

  5. #5
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    Its not just the fact that pakistan lost from a winning position but the fact that he doesnt merit a place in the team

    I hope he proves me wrong and gets a ton in the next game but his avge has been in a free fall for 2 yrs now

    A pakistam team as poor as this doesnt have the luxury of carrying a non performing captain Simple

  6. #6
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    Age old problem in Pakistan cricket of no succession planning. Then when a captain steps down or is kicked out there is no suitable replacement.



  7. #7
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    Shan Masood any day of the week.

  8. #8
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    Where do I begin.

    The entire premise is a flawed one.

    I post few and far between due to simply being busy with my own life but I felt the need to post with regard to Azhar Ali and looking at the entire team as a whole from coaching to management.

    Azhar Ali (I will also include Shafiq in this as they are the same to me) is the biggest waste of time, money, and energy in the history of Pakistan cricket.

    Although others have had long and disappointing careers, at least those players (Afridi) have had their moments of brilliance. Thatís not to say they deserved the long leash they had gotten, but there was a period of about 2-3 years where Afridi was a world class bowler who was dangerous with the bat and actually had some brains as captain.

    With Azhar what do we have? He showed great promise despite clear limitations in his ability. He wasnít a special shot maker, a classy player, he was a grit and determination player who had a career due to keeping value on his wicket. We could take those 30-40SR matched because in a fairly weak Pakistan batting lineup, he would score big runs and at least put a value on his wicket and stay at the crease. This confidence was only there because he had two of the best test batsmen Pakistan had ever had.

    I have rarely if ever seen such a weak mental capacity as I have from Azhar who went from mid to high 40s average player, to a duck every other innings.

    I donít even have the energy to look up the stats but heís I think a sub 25 average since the departure of YK and Misbah, and heís rewarded with test captaincy?

    This is honestly comedy.

    This ďthere is no better option for captainĒ is a hilarious concept at its base. The first thing a player must be able to do is one of two things, either be a high level batsmen or a high level bowler, then you have WKs and the all-rounders who are a combination of the two.

    Currently Azhar (and Asad) are neither.

    The audacity for us to talk about how we require Azharís brain, the same brain that lost a match that was in your hand is unbelievable.

    I donít care if we have someone with no captaincy ability, or is not a cricketing brain if they cannot bat or bowl or are an elite keeper. Azhar isnít some premier tactician, this we all know, so to have him as a full time captain while being a walking wicket is madness.

    The captain is to be a role model and lead by example, and if you have your leader being a walking wicket, well then youíve already lost the mental battle.

    Make Shan captain, make Yasir captain, make anyone captain (except Babar unless he feels confident and ready to want it, I donít want it to interfere with his batting), but do not select a player to be the captain, select a player to perform on the pitch.

    The problem isnít just Azhar or Asad, this stems from the constant nepotism and cronyism from the top of Misbah selecting his guys who he had a relationship with.

    The green is all that matters. You select the best 11, as flawed as they may be and lacking in talent by comparison to the top 6.

    I like Abid Ali but we selected him a bit late and it looks like he might have been a flash in the pan. Players like Imam should be getting chances over Ali. Heís flawed sure but I will take a young player with promise over a walking 0 who we have no other option as captain for.

    Captaincy is important, but no good team has a full time captain and therein lies the issue.

    Performances have become secondary, putting your friends and pushing narratives are more important.

    It seems as though every decision made is always the wrong one, and even the casual fan could seemingly make better decisions than our national selector.

    The same song over and over and over again for decades now.

    Itís exhausting and sad.

  9. #9
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    No sane person will want him to be a part of the team right now let alone captain


    Hard to get a handle on this double edged sword

  10. #10
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    Shan Masood is the greatest captaincy candidate we have had after Wasim Akram.
    How do people not see this?
    So should we still stick with Azhar? A big fat No
    Last edited by MenInG; 11th August 2020 at 08:31.

  11. #11
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    Right we should continue with a guy averaging 11 and batting at 3. I think Yasir and Shadab might be averaging more than kaptaan sahab in the last 1-2 years.

  12. #12
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    Either shan masood or babar
    Last edited by MenInG; 11th August 2020 at 08:31.

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    Why Shan Masood
    First of all I don't think he'll survive another year
    Second of all is he that good tactically that we should have him captain a test side

    I think rizwan is a good choice

  14. #14
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    what a thread

  15. #15
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    We canít have a specialist captain thatís a joke and when it comes to ďdecent manĒ if he was decent heíd just step down considering his performances

  16. #16
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    If we donít have any better captain available than this guy we deserve the title of minnow.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    Why Shan Masood
    First of all I don't think he'll survive another year
    Second of all is he that good tactically that we should have him captain a test side

    I think rizwan is a good choice
    You should not have the permission to think if it makes you conclude that Rizwan is a better captaincy candidate than Shan.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    If we donít have any better captain available than this guy we deserve the title of minnow.
    Except that we have, so we aint minnows.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amoeba View Post
    Who do you want to captain?

    Abid Ali
    Naseem Shah
    Mohammed Asif
    Showboy Actor
    Noor Jehan

    There is no alternative.....now get behind a decent man and support the team.
    I am a decent man too.

    And like Azhar Ali, I'm too old, too unfit, and I would only average 11.77 overseas.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I am a decent man too.

    And like Azhar Ali, I'm too old, too unfit, and I would only average 11.77 overseas.
    You might average a couple of decimal points lesser, so i think according to the OP, you'll be an even better choice.


  21. #21
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    You can't debut a captaincy role overseas. Must try shan or babar at home.

    Make rizwan tim paine? Or make fawad captain on his comeback

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    Not performing with the bat, not showing signs of being good tactically, always wants to be on the defensive. There is nothing to get behind and nothing to suggest he deserves more time.

  23. #23
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    The same damn excuse every time.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  24. #24
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    The people calling for Shan were probably questioning why he was in the team a few months ago. He himself is only 4 or 5 bad innings away from being dropped.

  25. #25
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    The thing with Azhar is, not just the non-performance, but the fact that he is just average when it comes to captaincy. We were getting bashed by weaker teams in ODI cricket under his captaincy, not sure why people expected him to be successful at Test captaincy where you need to make things happen aswell.

    But yeah, there is no alternative to Azhar right now. Pretty much the same issue as when Sarfraz was captain. Pakistan fans would want the selectors to play merry-go round all the time, but end of the day, we have to endure this pain till Babar really comes into his own and deserves captaincy.

    To the guy who suggested making Rizwan the captain, do you people just post for the heck of it, or is there some thought process behind that?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amoeba View Post
    The people calling for Shan were probably questioning why he was in the team a few months ago. He himself is only 4 or 5 bad innings away from being dropped.
    Same goes for Azhar in fact his credit bank is even less then Shan givin his form.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amoeba View Post
    The people calling for Shan were probably questioning why he was in the team a few months ago. He himself is only 4 or 5 bad innings away from being dropped.
    Azhar has contributed nothing though. Go look at his last 20-odd innings. Heís been shocking.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amoeba View Post
    The people calling for Shan were probably questioning why he was in the team a few months ago. He himself is only 4 or 5 bad innings away from being dropped.
    Shan has scored 150 in this series what has Azhar done?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Not performing with the bat, not showing signs of being good tactically, always wants to be on the defensive. There is nothing to get behind and nothing to suggest he deserves more time.
    Donít forget not accepting your mistake and blaming the allrounder. A man is a man when he accepts his mistake.

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    The harsh reality is that Azhar Ali's going nowhere.

    This tour will be blanketed to be all about the pandemic and how it was difficult for players to adapt. If it wasn't for the pandemic Azhar would have smashed 300 and Misbah would have done one-handed push-ups on the balcony every session.

    Next tour will be about how the heat-wave from Sahara and the cold-wave from the Arctic have affected player morale.

    The next tour will determine which country has the best scenery to give Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq a farewell series.

    They all take us for a ride, the PCB. Fans forget what happened yesterday and the lacs get deposited in the accounts as normal.

  31. #31
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    I cannot understand the argument that Shan is x matches away from being dropped so he shouldn't be considered for captaincy. He's one of the fittest, hardworking and proactive members of the squad and if you listen to his interviews he's very knowledgable on the game. His form of the past year or two at home and overseas has improved leaps and bounds.

    In contrast Azhar's lackadaisical attitude and defensive mindset is hindering the team's potential. As much as I like Azhar as an individual and believe he should be given a chance to prove himself as a player due to his long-term record, I feel his days as captain should be curtailed.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Bluestone View Post
    Where do I begin.

    The entire premise is a flawed one.

    I post few and far between due to simply being busy with my own life but I felt the need to post with regard to Azhar Ali and looking at the entire team as a whole from coaching to management.

    Azhar Ali (I will also include Shafiq in this as they are the same to me) is the biggest waste of time, money, and energy in the history of Pakistan cricket.

    Although others have had long and disappointing careers, at least those players (Afridi) have had their moments of brilliance. That’s not to say they deserved the long leash they had gotten, but there was a period of about 2-3 years where Afridi was a world class bowler who was dangerous with the bat and actually had some brains as captain.

    With Azhar what do we have? He showed great promise despite clear limitations in his ability. He wasn’t a special shot maker, a classy player, he was a grit and determination player who had a career due to keeping value on his wicket. We could take those 30-40SR matched because in a fairly weak Pakistan batting lineup, he would score big runs and at least put a value on his wicket and stay at the crease. This confidence was only there because he had two of the best test batsmen Pakistan had ever had.

    I have rarely if ever seen such a weak mental capacity as I have from Azhar who went from mid to high 40s average player, to a duck every other innings.

    I don’t even have the energy to look up the stats but he’s I think a sub 25 average since the departure of YK and Misbah, and he’s rewarded with test captaincy?

    This is honestly comedy.

    This “there is no better option for captain” is a hilarious concept at its base. The first thing a player must be able to do is one of two things, either be a high level batsmen or a high level bowler, then you have WKs and the all-rounders who are a combination of the two.

    Currently Azhar (and Asad) are neither.

    The audacity for us to talk about how we require Azhar’s brain, the same brain that lost a match that was in your hand is unbelievable.

    I don’t care if we have someone with no captaincy ability, or is not a cricketing brain if they cannot bat or bowl or are an elite keeper. Azhar isn’t some premier tactician, this we all know, so to have him as a full time captain while being a walking wicket is madness.

    The captain is to be a role model and lead by example, and if you have your leader being a walking wicket, well then you’ve already lost the mental battle.

    Make Shan captain, make Yasir captain, make anyone captain (except Babar unless he feels confident and ready to want it, I don’t want it to interfere with his batting), but do not select a player to be the captain, select a player to perform on the pitch.

    The problem isn’t just Azhar or Asad, this stems from the constant nepotism and cronyism from the top of Misbah selecting his guys who he had a relationship with.

    The green is all that matters. You select the best 11, as flawed as they may be and lacking in talent by comparison to the top 6.

    I like Abid Ali but we selected him a bit late and it looks like he might have been a flash in the pan. Players like Imam should be getting chances over Ali. He’s flawed sure but I will take a young player with promise over a walking 0 who we have no other option as captain for.

    Captaincy is important, but no good team has a full time captain and therein lies the issue.

    Performances have become secondary, putting your friends and pushing narratives are more important.

    It seems as though every decision made is always the wrong one, and even the casual fan could seemingly make better decisions than our national selector.

    The same song over and over and over again for decades now.

    It’s exhausting and sad.
    This is an excellent post. In fact my post of the week I would say this to add to all azhars fans and this includes myself...azhar for me was the find of the 2010 series. Yes amir asif stole the show for the right and then wrong reasons, saeed ajmal announced his arrival but he was already established in LOI and we were all waiting for Kaneria to fail but the nuggety top order batsman azhar was for me the guy who was the real find. The kind of batsman who puts a price on his wicket and blocks and blocks until he’s ready to take a single or two. Never flashy always solid. Never a high run scorer but enough to blunt an attack.

    But what has he become. A batsman constantly getting squared up looking jittery at every ball. One who looks like he’s happy just be at the ground than to fight for a win. Yes this is misbahs nepotism and is the only significant decision I see as a clear out and out mistake. Azhar has demonstrated no ability to learn. He has not improved his batting technique in ten years, his cricketing nouse is exactly as it has been in the past. He’s a puppet on a string but the tacticians behind the scene don’t help with field placing or weaknesses of batsmen. They give him a script and he follows it to a tee without reading the game situation. He’s star struck by the hype heaped upon his own players when their weaknesses are too obvious to ignore. He fails to understand the weaknesses of the opposition nor does he play to his teams strengths. He emulates misbah in trying to play a slow game but doesn’t understand when it’s time to hit the pedal.

    He’s a poor captain. He doesn’t deserve to be in the team. There are only two people I’ve ever known to deserve to be captains even if they never contributed a run. Mike Brearley and Michael Vaughn the later time and again proves through his commentary how an incisive mind can slay a giant. Azhar is not in this category. He dithers and is plagued by self doubt. I would take anybody as captain over this.

    Let’s see what Southampton brings but I doubt azhar can change much as a batsman or captain in a few days when he’s been exactly the same for 10 years.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amoeba View Post
    The people calling for Shan were probably questioning why he was in the team a few months ago. He himself is only 4 or 5 bad innings away from being dropped.
    You are normally a very good poster and always have something interesting to point out. You’re not afraid to go against the grain. But on this point your whole premise is wrong. There is another very average player out there in the Pakistani team that will prove my point.

    Do you remember 2000/2001 when Shohaib Malik made his debut..he became the spinner to oust saqlain but could bat. He batted in all positions against all opponents was dropped made a come back, fought for his place improved regressed became captain was ousted etc etc. There is a long history but he was once one of the best in the world. In about 2004/2005 I think.

    Look at how much flak Shan got after his initial performances. Was dropped and then became Shan 2.0 who I think performed admirably in saf and now England.

    The point being that being dropped allows a batsman to work on his deficiencies and take a good hard look at their goals and role in the team. otherwise they can stay in a rut forever. Sm and sm above demonstrated real learning and battles. They may still be mediocre in the eyes of the world but you can respect the fact that sifarish or not at one point they’ve punched above their meagre talent.

    Please tell me when azhar has show real hunger for his place in the last few years. His Sri Lanka performance or vs England performance was a long time ago. He doesn’t show any development of any kind and to boot he has now been rewarded for his poor batting by being made captain. He is not captaincy material. Now there’s no shame in this. Waqar was not captaincy material either. Misbah grew into the role himself very slowly. But one thing you can say for sure about misbah and waqar. They may have started out as bad captains but they could be their own men and they were not afraid to stamp their identity on the team and game.

    Azhar has nothing to offer as a batsman or as a player. He will not improve with time like misbah because misbah struggled after Hamilton 2000 and was cast out in the wilderness till about 2007. Azhar really has been comfortable in the shadow of misyou and once again he’s in the shadow of misyou. This is just wrong. For once I’m thinking we need a really young and raw captain as there appear to be three bad captains sitting on the sidelines dictating terms badly. Azhar is handicapped before he begins. Oh and another thing. His technique has been dissected he will struggle past 10 in every innings from now.

  34. #34
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    Letís get something clear first. We are a very poor side because the vast majority of our players are deeply mediocre.

    Our delusional fans can overhype these mediocre players all they want, but it does not change what they really are - bog average cricketers who would not get into any top side in the world.

    Apart from Babar (and Yasir in some instances), not a single Pakistani player would get anywhere near the Indian, Australian, English etc. lineups.

    So simply changing the captain would not change the fate of this team. However, that does not mean that you can let a non-performing cricketer lead the team.

    Time and time again, we find ourselves in a situation where the captain is using captaincy as a shield to keep his place in the team while in the top teams, the captain is one of the best performers in the side.

    A lot of people are suggesting Shan Masood and this is so typical of Pakistani fans. We get excited easily and our heads are in the clouds before we get a reality check and then we are surprised at the outcome,

    Shan Masood has found run scoring an extremely difficult task at every level. He cannot score a fluent 50 without 2-3 dropped catches even to save his life.

    However, after the 150 in the first Test, people are acting as if we have found our new Saeed Anwar and want to thrust him with captaincy.

    Listen to me carefully so that you donít whine later. You make him captain now and 24 months later, you will find yourself in the exact same situation where the 32-33 year old Masood will not be scoring any runs and the team will be losing, and you will be demanding him to be ousted from the team.

    He has no natural ability and he is in a zone at the moment. Once he finds himself out of this zone, he will have nothing to fall back on and his career will only head one way. He is nothing more than an inferior version of Azhar.

    He is going through the same period Azhar went in 2016-2017 where we thought we had found a world beater. However, that did not last and neither will Masoodís purple patch last. He is not good enough to make it last.

    The only solution is to make Babar captain and we know it will happen eventually but we will delay it for no reason except that we donít understand the game of cricket.

    All this talk of inexperience and overburden is nonsense. He has been part of international cricket for half a decade now and is already leading the white ball formats.

    He will turn 26 in a couple of months. The same age at which Kohli, Smith, Williamson and Root became Test captains.

    As far as the notion that he will be overburdened is concerned, you do not know your capacity to lift weight until you lift it. Babar cannot be kept away from Test captaincy because of the assumption that he will crumble under pressure.

    You need to give him the opportunity and if he struggles to handle the pressure, then and only then do you decide the way forward.

    With Babar leading the side, our fortunes will not change unless you can somehow produce 4-5 world class cricketers. However, with Babar leading the side, you will ensure that your captain is not using his captaincy as a shield to keep himself in the team and will be able to carry his own weight with his individual performances.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Letís get something clear first. We are a very poor side because the vast majority of our players are deeply mediocre.

    Our delusional fans can overhype these mediocre players all they want, but it does not change what they really are - bog average cricketers who would not get into any top side in the world.

    Apart from Babar (and Yasir in some instances), not a single Pakistani player would get anywhere near the Indian, Australian, English etc. lineups.

    So simply changing the captain would not change the fate of this team. However, that does not mean that you can let a non-performing cricketer lead the team.

    Time and time again, we find ourselves in a situation where the captain is using captaincy as a shield to keep his place in the team while in the top teams, the captain is one of the best performers in the side.

    A lot of people are suggesting Shan Masood and this is so typical of Pakistani fans. We get excited easily and our heads are in the clouds before we get a reality check and then we are surprised at the outcome,

    Shan Masood has found run scoring an extremely difficult task at every level. He cannot score a fluent 50 without 2-3 dropped catches even to save his life.

    However, after the 150 in the first Test, people are acting as if we have found our new Saeed Anwar and want to thrust him with captaincy.

    Listen to me carefully so that you donít whine later. You make him captain now and 24 months later, you will find yourself in the exact same situation where the 32-33 year old Masood will not be scoring any runs and the team will be losing, and you will be demanding him to be ousted from the team.

    He has no natural ability and he is in a zone at the moment. Once he finds himself out of this zone, he will have nothing to fall back on and his career will only head one way. He is nothing more than an inferior version of Azhar.

    He is going through the same period Azhar went in 2016-2017 where we thought we had found a world beater. However, that did not last and neither will Masoodís purple patch last. He is not good enough to make it last.

    The only solution is to make Babar captain and we know it will happen eventually but we will delay it for no reason except that we donít understand the game of cricket.

    All this talk of inexperience and overburden is nonsense. He has been part of international cricket for half a decade now and is already leading the white ball formats.

    He will turn 26 in a couple of months. The same age at which Kohli, Smith, Williamson and Root became Test captains.

    As far as the notion that he will be overburdened is concerned, you do not know your capacity to lift weight until you lift it. Babar cannot be kept away from Test captaincy because of the assumption that he will crumble under pressure.

    You need to give him the opportunity and if he struggles to handle the pressure, then and only then do you decide the way forward.

    With Babar leading the side, our fortunes will not change unless you can somehow produce 4-5 world class cricketers. However, with Babar leading the side, you will ensure that your captain is not using his captaincy as a shield to keep himself in the team and will be able to carry his own weight with his individual performances.
    Alexander the Great Quotes
    I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion.

  36. #36
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    Listen to me carefully so that you donít whine later. You make him captain now and 24 months later, you will find yourself in the exact same situation where the 32-33 year old Masood will not be scoring any runs and the team will be losing, and you will be demanding him to be ousted from the team.
    this

    and the same lot would be bashing misbah


    "Life is Pain"
    ~House~

  37. #37
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    Are we suggesting Shan? The same guy who a few months ago many wanted kicking out of the team.
    Last edited by Saj; 12th August 2020 at 03:16.



  38. #38
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    Well, we are developing few young players so I dont think its wrong time to start developing our young test captain as well in Babar Azam. He can easily give good number of years in the leadership role if he is ready to captain all three formats.

  39. #39
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    I haven't posted for years probably but our fanbase is very predictable. A few good innings and he is the next Bradman and should be made captain. A 17 year old takes a few wickets and he is the next Wasim Akram and therefore should be captain.


    A captain should be chosen for his leadership skills not necessarily just the best player. I don't have an issue with people going for Shan given he is intelligent and hard working. However he is hardly secure in his batting position right now. If he can continue this form for another year then yes he is captain material. Firstly though he has to made VC before he goes anywhere.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Letís get something clear first. We are a very poor side because the vast majority of our players are deeply mediocre.

    Our delusional fans can overhype these mediocre players all they want, but it does not change what they really are - bog average cricketers who would not get into any top side in the world.

    Apart from Babar (and Yasir in some instances), not a single Pakistani player would get anywhere near the Indian, Australian, English etc. lineups.

    So simply changing the captain would not change the fate of this team. However, that does not mean that you can let a non-performing cricketer lead the team.

    Time and time again, we find ourselves in a situation where the captain is using captaincy as a shield to keep his place in the team while in the top teams, the captain is one of the best performers in the side.

    A lot of people are suggesting Shan Masood and this is so typical of Pakistani fans. We get excited easily and our heads are in the clouds before we get a reality check and then we are surprised at the outcome,

    Shan Masood has found run scoring an extremely difficult task at every level. He cannot score a fluent 50 without 2-3 dropped catches even to save his life.

    However, after the 150 in the first Test, people are acting as if we have found our new Saeed Anwar and want to thrust him with captaincy.

    Listen to me carefully so that you donít whine later. You make him captain now and 24 months later, you will find yourself in the exact same situation where the 32-33 year old Masood will not be scoring any runs and the team will be losing, and you will be demanding him to be ousted from the team.

    He has no natural ability and he is in a zone at the moment. Once he finds himself out of this zone, he will have nothing to fall back on and his career will only head one way. He is nothing more than an inferior version of Azhar.

    He is going through the same period Azhar went in 2016-2017 where we thought we had found a world beater. However, that did not last and neither will Masoodís purple patch last. He is not good enough to make it last.

    The only solution is to make Babar captain and we know it will happen eventually but we will delay it for no reason except that we donít understand the game of cricket.

    All this talk of inexperience and overburden is nonsense. He has been part of international cricket for half a decade now and is already leading the white ball formats.

    He will turn 26 in a couple of months. The same age at which Kohli, Smith, Williamson and Root became Test captains.

    As far as the notion that he will be overburdened is concerned, you do not know your capacity to lift weight until you lift it. Babar cannot be kept away from Test captaincy because of the assumption that he will crumble under pressure.

    You need to give him the opportunity and if he struggles to handle the pressure, then and only then do you decide the way forward.

    With Babar leading the side, our fortunes will not change unless you can somehow produce 4-5 world class cricketers. However, with Babar leading the side, you will ensure that your captain is not using his captaincy as a shield to keep himself in the team and will be able to carry his own weight with his individual performances.
    You always have the glass half empty mentality and very rarely do you see more than quantifiable matter.

    Equating Shan with Azhar's career graph is erroneous to say the least because they are both different people, have different mentalities and intelligence.
    Shan is one of the smartest cricketers you will ever get to know, not just in Pakistan, but internationally.
    He has tremendous focus, work ethic and believes in innovation and modern coaching methods.
    It is this out of the box thinking (hiring Gary Palmer for example) that has got him where he is today, because as you yourself said, he is not very talented.
    4 years ago, the guy couldn't play the short ball to save his life. Admittedly, he didn't have the pull or cut shot then. And look at him now.
    His struggles against Anderson and the moving ball are well documented but the way he overcame them is in front of everyone.
    He will always have troubles but he is someone who will find the answers as well, which makes him a better student of the game and a hence a better tactician.

    To compare him to someone who just puppets Misbah, has no opinion of his own, has been getting dismissed in the same manner for 5 years and is just another run of the mill Pakistani cricketer, is just absurd.

    Shan, if brought in as captain is going to contribute more than just the sum of his stats. So even if he averages 40 max, I would have him because of the other things he brings to the table.
    He is a leader, an innovator, and has an inspirational presence.
    If you traverse the domestic cricket scene, you will find out that he has a lot of good will and respect among his peers.
    I see him not only being a very good representative for our cricket internationally, but also as someone who can change the paindu culture when it comes to strategy and fitness as well as our shoddy out-cricket.

    And yes, coming on to Babar, I dont believe getting him to captain is going to be anywhere near as great a value as having Shan at the helm.
    He will just be one of those old fashioned great Pakistani batsmen who turned out to be average captains, because he lacks any sort of communication skills or presence in the field.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amoeba View Post
    Who do you want to captain?

    Abid Ali
    Naseem Shah
    Mohammed Asif
    Showboy Actor
    Noor Jehan

    There is no alternative.....now get behind a decent man and support the team.
    Why did not mention either Babar Azam or Shan Masood heck even Rizwan wouldn't do a bad job at this point


    Full credit to Micky Arthur for realizing Babar Azam was born to bat at 3 in all formats.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amoeba View Post
    I haven't posted for years probably but our fanbase is very predictable. A few good innings and he is the next Bradman and should be made captain. A 17 year old takes a few wickets and he is the next Wasim Akram and therefore should be captain.


    A captain should be chosen for his leadership skills not necessarily just the best player. I don't have an issue with people going for Shan given he is intelligent and hard working. However he is hardly secure in his batting position right now. If he can continue this form for another year then yes he is captain material. Firstly though he has to made VC before he goes anywhere.
    It seems as though you haven't watched Pakistan for years either. TBH, I'd probably take Naseem Shah as captain over Azhar right now.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amoeba View Post
    A captain should be chosen for his leadership skills not necessarily just the best player.
    But, do you think its a coincidence that Kohli, Williamson, Root, Smith (Before Tempering), QDK are also the best players of their teams?

    I think in modern day cricket the post of a specialist captain or appointing someone on the basis of just the leadership skills is not possible. You have to shortlist the top performers and permanent fixtures in the team first and then if you have 2-3 such players maybe you can go with the one with better leadership skills.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amoeba View Post
    Who do you want to captain?

    Abid Ali
    Naseem Shah
    Mohammed Asif
    Showboy Actor
    Noor Jehan

    There is no alternative.....now get behind a decent man and support the team.
    Babar azam
    Shan Masood
    Even Haris Sohail would do better than Azhar Ali I guess.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canistani Hero View Post
    Why did not mention either Babar Azam or Shan Masood heck even Rizwan wouldn't do a bad job at this point
    If mentioned then cannot defend Azhar bhai and Misbah bhai.

  46. #46
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    lol a specialist captain.

    Only in Pakistan.

  47. #47
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    Shaan Masood and Babar.

    Any one in the team can be a better captain than Azhar.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Let’s get something clear first. We are a very poor side because the vast majority of our players are deeply mediocre.

    Our delusional fans can overhype these mediocre players all they want, but it does not change what they really are - bog average cricketers who would not get into any top side in the world.

    Apart from Babar (and Yasir in some instances), not a single Pakistani player would get anywhere near the Indian, Australian, English etc. lineups.

    So simply changing the captain would not change the fate of this team. However, that does not mean that you can let a non-performing cricketer lead the team.

    Time and time again, we find ourselves in a situation where the captain is using captaincy as a shield to keep his place in the team while in the top teams, the captain is one of the best performers in the side.

    A lot of people are suggesting Shan Masood and this is so typical of Pakistani fans. We get excited easily and our heads are in the clouds before we get a reality check and then we are surprised at the outcome,

    Shan Masood has found run scoring an extremely difficult task at every level. He cannot score a fluent 50 without 2-3 dropped catches even to save his life.

    However, after the 150 in the first Test, people are acting as if we have found our new Saeed Anwar and want to thrust him with captaincy.

    Listen to me carefully so that you don’t whine later. You make him captain now and 24 months later, you will find yourself in the exact same situation where the 32-33 year old Masood will not be scoring any runs and the team will be losing, and you will be demanding him to be ousted from the team.

    He has no natural ability and he is in a zone at the moment. Once he finds himself out of this zone, he will have nothing to fall back on and his career will only head one way. He is nothing more than an inferior version of Azhar.

    He is going through the same period Azhar went in 2016-2017 where we thought we had found a world beater. However, that did not last and neither will Masood’s purple patch last. He is not good enough to make it last.

    The only solution is to make Babar captain and we know it will happen eventually but we will delay it for no reason except that we don’t understand the game of cricket.

    All this talk of inexperience and overburden is nonsense. He has been part of international cricket for half a decade now and is already leading the white ball formats.

    He will turn 26 in a couple of months. The same age at which Kohli, Smith, Williamson and Root became Test captains.

    As far as the notion that he will be overburdened is concerned, you do not know your capacity to lift weight until you lift it. Babar cannot be kept away from Test captaincy because of the assumption that he will crumble under pressure.

    You need to give him the opportunity and if he struggles to handle the pressure, then and only then do you decide the way forward.

    With Babar leading the side, our fortunes will not change unless you can somehow produce 4-5 world class cricketers. However, with Babar leading the side, you will ensure that your captain is not using his captaincy as a shield to keep himself in the team and will be able to carry his own weight with his individual performances.

    See how quickly you derailed this thread now everybody thinks this thread is about Shan masood. No it’s about azhars inadequacy as a captain. Azhar has no technique (even azhar mahmood on tms said bowl straight..he keeps falling over or plays across his pads) and the English team know it.
    He has no leadership skills this is evident and is not much of a strategist.

    So please don’t go off topic discussing Shan and yes in this team there are some mediocre players. But then 2001 eng team in pak had some mediocre players. 2005 English team that beat Australia had some mediocre players. 1996 Sri Lanka team had some mediocre players etc etc. It doesn’t explain anything to say a team is mediocre but rather to point out what they must do to win.

    One thing we can do right now is strip azhar of captaincy and give it to anybody because the captains calling the shots are younis misbah and waqar so who is on the field doesn’t matter.

    After that we will see. We can’t immediately make shaheen or Abbas take the old ball away from rhb but we could Make a change or two in the line up.

  49. #49
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    Basically the captain of Pakistan is the perennially changing position. Everyone calls for captain's head as soon as we lose a match. If we sack Azhar and make Babar captain and when he loses, I'm sure people will ask to revert back to Azhar who is actually performing decently. It's his batting that needs improvement not his captaincy. For hell's sake, there have been threads requesting Sarfraz to be reinstated

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by StreetSmart View Post
    Shaan Masood and Babar.

    Any one in the team can be a better captain than Azhar.
    Correction - for blind fans, anyone from Pakistan whose name is not Azhar Ali is a better captain. How fickle are we!

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ask_analyse_act View Post
    Babar azam
    Shan Masood
    Even Haris Sohail would do better than Azhar Ali I guess.
    I mean I know a lot of posters here are after Azhar's head but Haris Sohail? Seriously? This is beyond ridiculousness.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Are we suggesting Shan? The same guy who a few months ago manybwanted kicking out.
    Because he is fresh from 150. If he fails the next match at Southampton, the knowledgeable posters of PakPassion would discard his name too.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forward Defensive Push View Post
    Because he is fresh from 150. If he fails the next match at Southampton, the knowledgeable posters of PakPassion would discard his name too.
    Heís actually more fresh from a zero.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    He’s actually more fresh from a zero.
    Doesn't matter. The 0 would have been more highlighted he was the captain and that enforces my point.

  55. #55
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    Azhar is probably the worst captain we ever had, certainly the worse that I have seen. He inspires mediocrity.

  56. #56
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    I think Azhar should stay until the end of the series.

    If Pakistan get whitewashed, Azhar should be sacked.



  57. #57
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    Difference between Azhar as captain and anyone else in the team as captain is that he has been captain before, albeit in a different format, but a complete failure in the role nonetheless. He is a brain dead captain who tries not to lose than try to win.

    Less said about his batting the better.

  58. #58
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    Azhar until the end of the test series. Hope for the best. Then probably Shan. Reading the posts on this thread has convinced me of it even more.

  59. #59
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    Pakistan fans are largely a fickle bunch . It was a tough loss because of the winning position we were in . That 35 over partnership between butler and woakes undid all the hard work of the previous 4 days . Not going to defend Azhar Ali . But if Azhar was not captain and the following were , we would have the following comments on this forum after this loss. I am just going to name those who have been touted as potential captaincy candidates on this forum from the comments I have read .

    Shan masood- ď Canít believe they made him captain , heís not even guaranteed a place in the team at the moment ď!!

    Babar Azam- ď To much pressure on babar . It was silly of them to burden him with captaincy as well .

    Sarfaraz Ahmed ď He should have been stripped of the captaincy ages ago . ď

    I could go on . Point being that some people
    Just moan and criticise regardless of whether we lose in a close match , get thrashed or draw .

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forward Defensive Push View Post
    Correction - for blind fans, anyone from Pakistan whose name is not Azhar Ali is a better captain. How fickle are we!
    Seems like you are fine with Azhar Aliís captaincy and are ok with Pakistan losing from winning situations.

  61. #61
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    You need someone who performs to be in team first then he can captain the side. Azhar does not warrant a place in XI as a batsman first of all on current form!


    ...

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    Seems like you are fine with Azhar Aliís captaincy and are ok with Pakistan losing from winning situations.
    Sometimes you have to acknowledge the brilliance of the opposition and say well played. Australia lost a test match at Eden gardens after having India on the mat and making them follow on. This does not take anything away from Steve Waugh. It was sheer brilliance from Rahul Dravid and VVS Laxman.

    I'm not at all comparing Azhar with Steve Waugh. I'm trying to say that even better captains had worse days. Azhar is leading a young team with lots of inexperience. Yes, he and the team should have batted a whole lot better than how they did in the second innings. But scapegoating him for the defeat after 1 test match is not right. In fact, he did everything correctly until the fateful partnership came together.

    I'm not ok with us losing from winning positions but understand that it's a very rare occurrence what we've seen and Buttler & Woakes should be applauded for the way they counterattacked more than anything.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Are we suggesting Shan? The same guy who a few months ago many wanted kicking out of the team.
    This, a guy who's had maybe 2-3 good series. When he fails, which he will regardless of his hardwork, we will be back to square one.

  64. #64
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    Its funny how there's no obvious cricketing reason / rationale presented for why Azhar should be captain. Neither performance, neither past record, neither form.

    The argument as to why he should be captain is because he has been already appointed and therefore everybody needs to get on with it.

  65. #65
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    Azhar Ali is clearly unable to handle this pressure. We can decide if we want him back as batsman or captain of sorts - both are not possible at the moment.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forward Defensive Push View Post
    Sometimes you have to acknowledge the brilliance of the opposition and say well played. Australia lost a test match at Eden gardens after having India on the mat and making them follow on. This does not take anything away from Steve Waugh. It was sheer brilliance from Rahul Dravid and VVS Laxman.

    I'm not at all comparing Azhar with Steve Waugh. I'm trying to say that even better captains had worse days. Azhar is leading a young team with lots of inexperience. Yes, he and the team should have batted a whole lot better than how they did in the second innings. But scapegoating him for the defeat after 1 test match is not right. In fact, he did everything correctly until the fateful partnership came together.

    I'm not ok with us losing from winning positions but understand that it's a very rare occurrence what we've seen and Buttler & Woakes should be applauded for the way they counterattacked more than anything.
    Its not just his captaincy tho Its his form thats gone off a cliff

    Can pakistan carry a non performing captain? How long will he stay in the team when hes avging 11 on overseas tours?

  67. #67
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    Azhar Ali cannot continue as captain, his batting has fallen off a cliff simultaneously to his captaincy and courage. A lack of alternatives is not an excuse to blindly continue this mediocrity, a captain should already have been being groomed and taught. Azhar Ali at this point in time is a liability to the team in every way.


    Arsenal all the way!! (and Pakistan, of course!)

  68. #68
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    Nobody here could ever justify Azhar as being Test captain, he cannot impose himself as an alpha male and the likes of him and Asad are just squad players, Azhar was pretty decent who had a lot of success in Tests. We've seen how terrible he was as ODI captain and will go down as one of our worst captains to have lead us in ODI's. I honestly cannot think of anyone else who can captain in his place, to me it seems like Misbah is handling match circumstances himself and Azhar is tactically clueless. I'd suggest pushing Azhar back to an opener (he plays better there instead at #3) and give the captaincy to someone else that's worthy of it, so far I can't think of anyone. Start off playing a series against weaker sides and rely on having the strongest possible squad.

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    I still have no clue why Azhar was so desperate to get back to batting at no 3. His career best years all came as an opener and his ability to face a large number of deliveries is always more useful as an opener. In terms of his captaincy, it was a braindead appointment in the first place. Other than his experience as a test match veteran, he has literally no other qualities you would want in a captain. It often seems like he's overwhelmed when one or two things go wrong which is about the worst trait you can have. At this point, it's worth taking a punt on Shan. On paper he has the qualities you want in a captain, and it's not like he can do much worse than Azhar.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amoeba View Post
    Who do you want to captain?

    Abid Ali
    Naseem Shah
    Mohammed Asif
    Showboy Actor
    Noor Jehan

    There is no alternative.....now get behind a decent man and support the team.
    Considering how badly he leads the team and the terrible example he sets with his negative body language on the field anyone with a hint of intelligence and positivity. They don't even need to score a lot of runs to be better than him. Score anything in double figures and they are automatically an improvement!

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Its not just his captaincy tho Its his form thats gone off a cliff

    Can pakistan carry a non performing captain? How long will he stay in the team when hes avging 11 on overseas tours?
    I absolutely agree that Azhar needs to perform with the bat for sure. Pakistan can't really afford to have a non performing captain but right now there are not any better options within the squad.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forward Defensive Push View Post
    I absolutely agree that Azhar needs to perform with the bat for sure. Pakistan can't really afford to have a non performing captain but right now there are not any better options within the squad.
    This is a silly excuse to keep a person in the team who is not performing.




    Sua cuique voluptas.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    This is a silly excuse to keep a person in the team who is not performing.
    Before accusing others of being silly, I'd expect you to name the other options that we have now.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forward Defensive Push View Post
    Before accusing others of being silly, I'd expect you to name the other options that we have now.
    Babar? Shan?

    It is beyond stupid to continue playing someone who has been a non-performer for years just because he is a captain. Drop him and replace him with someone else and stop making silly excuses to keep him in the team.




    Sua cuique voluptas.

  75. #75
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    If you are happy with someone averaging 12 outside the subcontinental conditions over the last couple of years and who is supposedly the leading batsman, that explains Pakistan's embarrassing capitulation and steady decline.
    Last edited by leatherface58; 13th August 2020 at 13:26.


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    Babar? Shan?

    It is beyond stupid to continue playing someone who has been a non-performer for years just because he is a captain. Drop him and replace him with someone else and stop making silly excuses to keep him in the team.
    Shan is just settling in from the last 3 series in the team and Babar is taking big strides as a batsman and captaincy burden will weigh him down. Azhar is just coming from 2 consecutive series wins and deserves at least 2 more series as the captain before you can drop him.

  77. #77
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    Is Shan off the list now?

  78. #78
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    Shan is not a captaincy candidate as he is not guaranteed a spot because he might start failing again, and Azhar is guaranteed one because he consistently fails with the bat?

    I do not follow the logic.

  79. #79
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    This thread was always gonna come back to bite you. Another ugly 20 at a strike rate of around 20


    Hard to get a handle on this double edged sword

  80. #80
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    Misses a well deserved triple hundred by 280 runs


    Meri Awaaz suno....
    Mujhe Azaad karo....


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