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View Poll Results: Should Pakistan follow UAE in opening ties with Israel?

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  • Yes, it's time to establish ties with Israel

    18 46.15%
  • Absolutely not - the boycott of Israel should continue as before

    21 53.85%
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  1. #1
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    Should Pakistan follow UAE in opening ties with Israel?

    as we have heard the news that Israel and UAE have signed a deal to normalize relations.
    KSA is already leaning towards Israel for technology and weapons.
    Rumors are other gulf countries are also leaning the same way. Even Egyptian president gave is nod of approval to Pakistan.
    What next for Pakistan and its diplomacy. How can they counter this move?

  2. #2
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    ?
    Nothing. Continue being allies to the Palestinians and that's about it, we don't have to be proactively involved like the malaysians and indonesians aren't.

  3. #3
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    Who is Egyptian President to give approval to Pakistan?

    Their foreign policy is non existent and dictated by UAE

  4. #4
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    Added poll to this thread.

    Main question is whether Pakistan should change its stance towards Israel or not - follow UAE's lead.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  5. #5
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    Well it doesn’t gain anything by not recognising it...

  6. #6
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    Never....

  7. #7
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    I believe most Muslim states (including Pakistan) will not recognize Israel.

    I voted no as I believe that's the morally right thing to do.

    This is the same Israel that is illegally annexing territories from West Bank.
    Last edited by sweep_shot; 14th August 2020 at 16:32.



  8. #8
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    No. Not until the Palestinians get a just settlement.

  9. #9
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    Pakistan recognizing Israel will be a huge boost for the Jewish nation

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Added poll to this thread.

    Main question is whether Pakistan should change its stance towards Israel or not - follow UAE's lead.
    no we should not recognise it. If we do then we should also recognise India's occupation of Kashmir. The UAE can do what it likes but it should remember that an oppressed persons dua is very powerful. In the 70's Beirut was a city they used to talk about. Today they talk about Dubai. Allah swt can change things in a second.

    Pakistan was a country established for the oppressed Muslims of the subcontinent, if we turn our backs on the men women and children who have stood firm against oppression and have guarded our third holiest site we may aswell abrogate 1947 and the Pakistan resolution!

  11. #11
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    Ummah can Kiss Goodbyeee, if Arabs Can't stand for Kashmir I dont care if pakistan wants a relationship with Israel.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    no we should not recognise it. If we do then we should also recognise India's occupation of Kashmir. The UAE can do what it likes but it should remember that an oppressed persons dua is very powerful. In the 70's Beirut was a city they used to talk about. Today they talk about Dubai. Allah swt can change things in a second.

    Pakistan was a country established for the oppressed Muslims of the subcontinent, if we turn our backs on the men women and children who have stood firm against oppression and have guarded our third holiest site we may aswell abrogate 1947 and the Pakistan resolution!
    So when is Pakistan going to take firm stand against oppressed Uighur muslims and break ties with China?

    Pakistan must do what they think is best for their country but pls dont make it sound like they stand for every oppressed muslims around the world. Pakistan not recognizing Kashmir or Israel makes zero difference to outer world. Both Israel and India is a thriving democracy.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    So when is Pakistan going to take firm stand against oppressed Uighur muslims and break ties with China?

    Pakistan must do what they think is best for their country but pls dont make it sound like they stand for every oppressed muslims around the world. Pakistan not recognizing Kashmir or Israel makes zero difference to outer world. Both Israel and India is a thriving democracy.
    Funny when Indians talk about Uighur Muslims when you lot are killing Indian Muslims and Kashmiris by the dozens.


    People living in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    So when is Pakistan going to take firm stand against oppressed Uighur muslims and break ties with China?

    Pakistan must do what they think is best for their country but pls dont make it sound like they stand for every oppressed muslims around the world. Pakistan not recognizing Kashmir or Israel makes zero difference to outer world. Both Israel and India is a thriving democracy.
    none of them are sthriving democracies. Isreal is an apertheid state that relies on a false demographic to maintain its supremacy. India is a fascist state that hides behind a cloak of "democracy". You are in no position to criticise Pakistan.

    I will be very bold and say the Uighur situation is not comparable to the situation in Palestine. Its like apples and oranges.

    Pakistan's ideological core is to help the oppressed and by and large we have over the years ,e.g. Bosnia for example. We should do more for the uighur and Im sure at some point we will but Palestine is a core issue for us like Kashmir. it hits to the core of the very reason for Pakistan's being, its raison detre.

    and one bot of advice, dont speak to us of our brothers the uighurs when you rape and murder kashmiris, and lynch Muslims in gujrat.
    Last edited by the Great Khan; 14th August 2020 at 19:53.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Added poll to this thread.

    Main question is whether Pakistan should change its stance towards Israel or not - follow UAE's lead.
    Pakistan is against Israel because Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian lands. So basically Pakistan is standing against oppression. Why should Pakistan change its policy and support the Israeli oppression now just because UAE decided to do it? And if Pakistan does change its policy and support the Israeli oppression then on what leg it can stand against Indian oppression against muslims in India?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    none of them are sthriving democracies. Isreal is an apertheid state that relies on a false demographic to maintain its supremacy. India is a fascist state that hides behind a cloak of "democracy". You are in no position to criticise Pakistan.

    I will be very bold and say the Uighur situation is not comparable to the situation in Palestine. Its like apples and oranges.

    Pakistan's ideological core is to help the oppressed and by and large we have over the years ,e.g. Bosnia for example. We should do more for the uighur and Im sure at some point we will but Palestine is a core issue for us like Kashmir. it hits to the core of the very reason for Pakistan's being, its raison detre.

    and one bot of advice, dont speak to us of our brothers the uighurs when you rape and murder kashmiris, and lynch Muslims in gujrat.
    As I said, Pakistan must do what they think is best for their country. If that means not recognizing Israel and maintaining status quo on Kashmir, so be it. However, being a country with very little global significance, geo-political situation of Israel and Kashmir will have little change irrespective of Pakistan's stance.

    However, when you say Pakistan's ideology is to help oppressed muslims around the world, then the question of Uighur muslims will always be raised. They will never speak against Uighurs because the oppressor is China, a country on which Pakistan depends and cant afford to upset.

    As far as our treament of Kashmiris or Gujrat riots are concerned, open a thread on those topics and I am happy to debate in details like Stone peltings or Godhra train burning etc.

  17. #17
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    Pakistan should not recognize Israel. Pakistan is a democratic country, and to take such a unpopular move will be a disaster for the PTI government. There is not much benefit that Pakistan will get but it could very well result in PTI losing the next election.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    As I said, Pakistan must do what they think is best for their country. If that means not recognizing Israel and maintaining status quo on Kashmir, so be it. However, being a country with very little global significance, geo-political situation of Israel and Kashmir will have little change irrespective of Pakistan's stance.

    However, when you say Pakistan's ideology is to help oppressed muslims around the world, then the question of Uighur muslims will always be raised. They will never speak against Uighurs because the oppressor is China, a country on which Pakistan depends and cant afford to upset.

    As far as our treament of Kashmiris or Gujrat riots are concerned, open a thread on those topics and I am happy to debate in details like Stone peltings or Godhra train burning etc.
    Im sorry did you just say Pakistan has very little global significance? hahahaha..ok..you know all we have to do is provide a country in the middle east a nuclear umbrella and you'll realise what Pakistan is and how significant.

    With CPEC and further outreach to central and west asia our significance is increasing. When you are offering a billion people an out and a route to the Indian ocean i would say thats globally significant. As for Kashmir, we will see. We have already seen your impotence in Ladakh and your inability to provide any form of policeman role to the west after the 27th of feb. Our role is significant enough.

    With regards to Gujrat, im sorry was that all the Muslims fault for getting their women and men burnt to death? im sure a RSS fanatic like you will blame the victims. You have zero legs to stand on when it comes to these issues.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Added poll to this thread.

    Main question is whether Pakistan should change its stance towards Israel or not - follow UAE's lead.
    What is your personal view?

    Imo we are not like the Arab dictatorships of the middle east like UAE, Qatar, Saudi, Oman, Bahrain. We are an independent nation which doesnt need others for security. Pakistan was created on the basis of justice for Muslims, so now we should accept a tryant nation which is brutal towards other Muslims?

    PPers can bump this in 50 years, Pakistan will NEVER recognise Israel unless Israel gives back the land it has stolen, accept East Jeruslam is not theirs, allows Palestinian refugees to return and it recognises Palestine as a nation. So NEVER.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  20. #20
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    I think it should now.

    This talk about oppression and muslim ummah is poor mans talk, countries dont love other countries, they just have strategic alliances. Some people on this forum are even fooled by erdogans extreme actions while at the same time being the only muslim country in recognising Israel.

    Pakistan commends and praised Chinas actions in Uighur not because there love for the communists is greater than for the muslims but because Uighurs can not give anything to us while the communists have investments, trade and economic/political relations for us.
    The same is the case in Kashmir, its not about what the indian army is doing there, its about standing up for kashimir otherwise you lose the respect in politics and there are economic gains there.
    The case for not recognising israel now is one that makes no sense, we gain nothing, but give india an open field to go and acquire israeli tech - which is some of the best in the world, and also gain through other trade relations. By recognising them it also gives Pakistan a leading role in diffusing the israel-palestine conflict.


    If you want to destroy a country, just create enmity between its people and their army - Salahuddin


  21. #21
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    Pakistan on Friday said that its approach to the agreement between UAE and Israel will be guided by how Palestinian's rights and aspirations are upheld.

    "Pakistan’s approach will be guided by our evaluation of how Palestinians’ rights and aspirations are upheld and how regional peace, security and stability are preserved," said a statement by the Foreign Office.

    It noted that the development has "far-reaching implications".

    "Pakistan has an abiding commitment to the full realisation of the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people, including the right to self-determination," the statement highlighted.

    It added: "Peace and stability in the Middle East region is also Pakistan’s key priority."

    The statement also stressed that Pakistan has "consistently supported a two-state solution in accordance with the relevant UN and OIC resolutions as well as international law" so that a "comprehensive and lasting peace" in the region can be established.

    US-brokered deal
    In the deal announced on Thursday by the US, Israel pledged to suspend its planned annexation of Palestinian lands in exchange for a normalisation of ties with the UAE.

    The agreement was the product of lengthy discussions between Israel, the UAE and the United States that accelerated recently, White House officials said.

    A joint statement issued by the three nations said US President Donald Trump, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Abu Dhabi’s Crown Prince Sheikh Mohammed Bin Zayed had “agreed to the full normalisation of relations between Israel and the United Arab Emirates”.

    The statement said that “as a result of this diplomatic breakthrough and at the request of President Trump with the support of the United Arab Emirates, Israel will suspend declaring sovereignty” over areas of the West Bank that were envisioned in a US plan announced by Trump in January.

    The agreement envisions giving Muslims greater access to the Al-Aqsa Mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem by allowing them to fly from Abu Dhabi to Tel Aviv, White House officials said.

    Trump said, “This deal is a significant step towards building a more peaceful, secure and prosperous Middle East. Now that the ice has been broken, I expect more Arab and Muslim countries will follow the United Arab Emirates’ lead .... and normalise relations with Israel.”

    “We are already discussing this with other nations, very powerful, very good nations that want to see peace in the Middle East so you will probably see others of these,” Trump added. “Things are happening that I can’t talk about, but they’re extremely positive.”

    https://www.geo.tv/latest/302798-pak...lestine-israel


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  22. #22
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  23. #23
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    Absolutely.

    We shouldn’t recognize the Palestinian cause. It is not our problem and also there is no solution in sight. Moreover, good terms with Israel will help us considerably.

    Unfortunately, it will not happen and that is why we will keep lagging behind the rest of the world.

    Ummah concept does not exist anymore after the emergence of the nation-state system and the decline of the Ottoman Empire.

    But you can trust Pakistan to live in its own delusional world in spite of the fact that we are repeatedly shown the door by other Muslim countries such as KSA.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetroDollars View Post
    I think it should now.

    This talk about oppression and muslim ummah is poor mans talk, countries dont love other countries, they just have strategic alliances. Some people on this forum are even fooled by erdogans extreme actions while at the same time being the only muslim country in recognising Israel.

    Pakistan commends and praised Chinas actions in Uighur not because there love for the communists is greater than for the muslims but because Uighurs can not give anything to us while the communists have investments, trade and economic/political relations for us.
    The same is the case in Kashmir, its not about what the indian army is doing there, its about standing up for kashimir otherwise you lose the respect in politics and there are economic gains there.
    The case for not recognising israel now is one that makes no sense, we gain nothing, but give india an open field to go and acquire israeli tech - which is some of the best in the world, and also gain through other trade relations. By recognising them it also gives Pakistan a leading role in diffusing the israel-palestine conflict.
    Palestinians and Kashmiris are occupied, Uyhgurs are not.

    Nations which base policies on their own interests end up with no credibility or friends in the long run.

    Read above Pakistan's statement, it's simple. Pakistan will do what is in the in the interests of Palestinians, not their own or the interest of Arab dictators.

    Besides Pak would look very foolish if and when the Jews decided to build their temple again.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    What is your personal view?

    Imo we are not like the Arab dictatorships of the middle east like UAE, Qatar, Saudi, Oman, Bahrain. We are an independent nation which doesnt need others for security. Pakistan was created on the basis of justice for Muslims, so now we should accept a tryant nation which is brutal towards other Muslims?

    PPers can bump this in 50 years, Pakistan will NEVER recognise Israel unless Israel gives back the land it has stolen, accept East Jeruslam is not theirs, allows Palestinian refugees to return and it recognises Palestine as a nation. So NEVER.
    We are already doing that. That country is called China.

    And you support and pay money to Liverpool FC who bought an Israeli footballer. So you have already recognized Israel at a personal level.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Absolutely.

    We shouldn’t recognize the Palestinian cause. It is not our problem and also there is no solution in sight. Moreover, good terms with Israel will help us considerably.

    Unfortunately, it will not happen and that is why we will keep lagging behind the rest of the world.

    Ummah concept does not exist anymore after the emergence of the nation-state system and the decline of the Ottoman Empire.

    But you can trust Pakistan to live in its own delusional world in spite of the fact that we are repeatedly shown the door by other Muslim countries such as KSA.
    You support Indian jets bombing Pakistan schoolchildren in case they grow up to be terrorists. All your posts even in cricket are the posts of an enemy of Pakistan. Azhar Ali as captain has more credibility than you, so stop boring yourself.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    We are already doing that. That country is called China.

    And you support and pay money to Liverpool FC who bought an Israeli footballer. So you have already recognized Israel at a personal level.
    Try reading Int law, China is not occupying them.

    LFC is anti racist and anti aparthied, we dont have any Israeli players, we have greats who are Muslim, Mane and Salah.

    Try debating with some intelligence.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Try reading Int law, China is not occupying them.

    LFC is anti racist and anti aparthied, we dont have any Israeli players, we have greats who are Muslim, Mane and Salah.

    Try debating with some intelligence.
    There is nothing intelligent about your justification.

    Liverpool does not support the Palestinian cause and you support and pay money to Liverpool. So either walk the talk and abandon your support for the team and don’t pay them a dime, or accept the fact that you recognize Israel.

    If your anti-Israel stance had a shred of credibility, you would have abandoned your support for Liverpool after they paid £5m for Benayoun in 2007.

    I am sure you would have celebrated the title win in 2009 when Liverpool nearly clinched the league and Benayoun played an instrumental role.

    So at a personal level, you have recognized Israel by giving your money to a football club that bought and paid wages to an Israeli player.

    Hence, your assertion that Pakistan government/establishment should continue to reject Israel’s existence is nothing but hypocritical.

    Giving up your support for Liverpool is not convenient so you are happy to undermine your moral standing. In the same way, some people are happy to undermine their moral standing by suggesting that Pakistan should develop diplomatic ties with Israel, since it will greatly benefit Pakistan.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    There is nothing intelligent about your justification.

    Liverpool does not support the Palestinian cause and you support and pay money to Liverpool. So either walk the talk and abandon your support for the team and don’t pay them a dime, or accept the fact that you recognize Israel.

    If your anti-Israel stance had a shred of credibility, you would have abandoned your support for Liverpool after they paid £5m for Benayoun in 2007.

    I am sure you would have celebrated the title win in 2009 when Liverpool nearly clinched the league and Benayoun played an instrumental role.

    So at a personal level, you have recognized Israel by giving your money to a football club that bought and paid wages to an Israeli player.

    Hence, your assertion that Pakistan government/establishment should continue to reject Israel’s existence is nothing but hypocritical.

    Giving up your support for Liverpool is not convenient so you are happy to undermine your moral standing. In the same way, some people are happy to undermine their moral standing by suggesting that Pakistan should develop diplomatic ties with Israel, since it will greatly benefit Pakistan.
    lol. You're wasting your precious time.

    You support Indian occupation of Kashmir, killing of Pakistani children. Stop digging.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    lol. You're wasting your precious time.

    You support Indian occupation of Kashmir, killing of Pakistani children. Stop digging.
    No answer as expected.

  31. #31
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    Pakistan doing the right thing, there is no point in being vocal at the current stage.

    Pakistan is also doing it right by getting along with Turkey, Iran and Malaysia. Pakistan should also get better relations developed with Qatar. Once this nexus is formed the power of Gulf countries would automatically diminish. Icing on the cake would be to throw Indonesia in this nexus too.

  32. #32
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    I dont understand the argument about arabs not recognising the Kashmir issue hence Pakistan should not recognise the Palestinian issue. Firstly, the arab world is a huge area comprising various governments and points of view.

    If the gulf arabs don't recognise Kashmir its no fault of the poor Palestinian people is it?

    Secondly there is no equivalence with China and Uighurs at a diplomatic level. We have existing diplomatic relations with China, none with Israel. Its a lot harder to roll back diplomatic relations than it is to initiate them. Similar to why Turkey is unable to break ties with the Israelis.

    The normalisation of the gulf countries ties with Israel is a huge attempt to really put the final boot into the Iranian/Turk influence in the ME. Lets forget the Palestinian people for the sake of argument....Pakistan should still NOT join the Gulf Arabs in the normalisation of ties as it will bring us into direct conflict with Iranian neighbours.

    The hypocrisy of some posters here is staggering. At times they want to cut ties with Arabs and here they want to join them in the fire that they are going to start in the ME.

    Pakistan has no stake in the oncoming conflict with Iran and Turkey. In fact, for its own sake Pakistan should NEVER recognise Israel, slowly wean itself off ties with gulf countries and build up ties with former Gun Powder empire territories plus Qatar.

    The only other option is being drawn inti a catastrophic conflict with friendly countries and at the same time losing the small moral high ground it has on the Palestinian issue.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extra_Cover View Post
    Pakistan doing the right thing, there is no point in being vocal at the current stage.

    Pakistan is also doing it right by getting along with Turkey, Iran and Malaysia. Pakistan should also get better relations developed with Qatar. Once this nexus is formed the power of Gulf countries would automatically diminish. Icing on the cake would be to throw Indonesia in this nexus too.
    I didnt read this post before posting but completelt agree. This isnt just about recognising Israel....this is about fighting Iranian influence in the ME

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Palestinians and Kashmiris are occupied, Uyhgurs are not.

    Nations which base policies on their own interests end up with no credibility or friends in the long run.


    Read above Pakistan's statement, it's simple. Pakistan will do what is in the in the interests of Palestinians, not their own or the interest of Arab dictators.

    Besides Pak would look very foolish if and when the Jews decided to build their temple again.
    USA and China say hi


    If you want to destroy a country, just create enmity between its people and their army - Salahuddin

  35. #35
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    It’s pretty idiotic if Pakistan to advocate for a two state solution at this point. The two state solution has no practical future.

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    We recognize India who are oppressing Kashmiris and are in direct conflict with us.

    We are at more disadvantage for not recognizing Israel. Trade with Israel would help the economy. Pakistan has maitained ties with Israel when Zia was in power.
    Infact Zia was involved in buying arms from Israel, but it was never made public.


    "Life is Pain"
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  37. #37
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    My guess is that the establishment realises that the Palestinians have no practical pathway for an independent state. But what they also realise is that recognising Israel will come at a cost that no government can afford. There’ll be strife at a level never seen before. So essentially they are just fine with the status quo.

  38. #38
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    what has pakistan gained from not recognising israel. israel exists, its not going anywhere anytime soon. pak will however not recognise israel becuase it would be political suicide for any leader who chose to do so, therefore both countries will continue to maintain covert relations.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElRaja View Post
    what has pakistan gained from not recognising israel. israel exists, its not going anywhere anytime soon. pak will however not recognise israel becuase it would be political suicide for any leader who chose to do so, therefore both countries will continue to maintain covert relations.
    Pakistan has nothing to gain either, you dont make friends with the devil or in this case Jewish extremists and expect them to have your back.

    Which covert relations does Pak have with Israel RIGHT NOW? Please dont make up stories.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    There is nothing intelligent about your justification.

    Liverpool does not support the Palestinian cause and you support and pay money to Liverpool. So either walk the talk and abandon your support for the team and don’t pay them a dime, or accept the fact that you recognize Israel.

    If your anti-Israel stance had a shred of credibility, you would have abandoned your support for Liverpool after they paid £5m for Benayoun in 2007.

    I am sure you would have celebrated the title win in 2009 when Liverpool nearly clinched the league and Benayoun played an instrumental role.

    So at a personal level, you have recognized Israel by giving your money to a football club that bought and paid wages to an Israeli player.

    Hence, your assertion that Pakistan government/establishment should continue to reject Israel’s existence is nothing but hypocritical.

    Giving up your support for Liverpool is not convenient so you are happy to undermine your moral standing. In the same way, some people are happy to undermine their moral standing by suggesting that Pakistan should develop diplomatic ties with Israel, since it will greatly benefit Pakistan.
    Benayoun instrumental in 09?!

    You're obviously also a young lad as anyone with any history of what you're insinuating would have raised Ronnie Rosenthal rather than Yossi.

    Furthermore,LFC are renowned anti racist, they boycott right wing media etc. As a city
    Last edited by The Viper; 15th August 2020 at 05:23.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waqar's inswinging yorker View Post
    Benayoun instrumental in 09?! Lol, I see your footy knowledge is on par with your cricket.

    You're obviously also a young lad as anyone with any history of what you're insinuating would have raised Ronnie Rosenthal rather than Yossi.

    Furthermore,LFC are renowned anti racist, they boycott right wing media etc. As a city
    Firstly, I gave Benayoun’s example in the context of KKWC and his hypocrisy with respect to the Palestinian cause.

    Rosenthal played for Liverpool in the early 90’s and KKWC wasn’t old enough to spend money on Liverpool back then.

    But he spends money on Liverpool now and had no issues supporting them and buying match tickets when they bought Benayoun.

    And yes Benayoun was a key player for Liverpool in 2008-09. He scored some important goals in both league and Europe including winner at Madrid, and played over 40 matches that season.

    If you watched matches instead of reading stats, you would have understood his importance to that Liverpool side.

    Here is a good read to brush up your knowledge and what Benayoun brought to Benitez’s side:

    https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool-...nsfer-18100522

    Liverpool’s stance against racism is irrelevant to the point of discussion here. The fact is that they recognize Israel and clearly do not give a toss about the Palestinian cause, and thus it is hypocritical for a Liverpool fan who pretends to be a Palestine supporter to continue supporting the club and paying them money after they bought Benayoun.

    As usual, these fake causes and sympathies are only relevant when convenient. It is inconvenient to stop supporting your club, so in this instance, it is fine to ignore the Palestinian cause. That is what keyboard warriors and activists do.
    Last edited by The Viper; 15th August 2020 at 05:24.

  42. #42
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    Yes, Pakistan should recognize Israel. Time to move on and accept it.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Pakistan has nothing to gain either, you dont make friends with the devil or in this case Jewish extremists and expect them to have your back.
    friends, having you back? you make it sound like we talking about some teenage boys hanging out after school. countries only interact with other countries to serve their own motives, there are no permanent friendships, just common interests, or relationships of force and leverage.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Which covert relations does Pak have with Israel RIGHT NOW? Please dont make up stories.
    israel has had its hand in nearly every american sponsored military venture pakistan has been a part of, the bcci was moving mossad money, pakistan and israels paths have crossed numerous times without having to establish formal relations.

    of course you are smart enough to know by highlighting "right now" you are creating a theoretical paradox, if i know about it, its not covert, and if its covert, how could i know about it... but no your right, lets assume pakistan tells israel to take a hike every time it tags along with any american foreign policy relating to Pakistan.... oh look at the time, that pbly would make for a decent bed time story.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElRaja View Post
    what has pakistan gained from not recognising israel. israel exists, its not going anywhere anytime soon. pak will however not recognise israel becuase it would be political suicide for any leader who chose to do so, therefore both countries will continue to maintain covert relations.
    There was talk about recognising israel during Musharrafs tenure, however it caused a media racket for no more than 2 days and then went under the rug.

    If it happens it needs to be handled properly, political suicide only results through terrible execution, pakistan can use the palestinian card while recognising israel like erdogan does, it even fools people on this forum.


    If you want to destroy a country, just create enmity between its people and their army - Salahuddin

  45. #45
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    55% of folks on this forum have voted 'NO'.

    It's like a glacier - let's come back and see the situation in 10 years time.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreakCricket View Post
    Ummah can Kiss Goodbyeee, if Arabs Can't stand for Kashmir I dont care if pakistan wants a relationship with Israel.
    The Palestinians don't even like the Gulf Arabs for being rats, don't throw a stateless people under the bus cause of some rich Sheikhs.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    55% of folks on this forum have voted 'NO'.

    It's like a glacier - let's come back and see the situation in 10 years time.
    4 of those 9 people that voted in favor of recognizing Israel are Indians

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    4 of those 9 people that voted in favor of recognizing Israel are Indians
    Alright - then the number is lower. Still it will only climb over any 10-year period.

    I would wager that Pakistan is the most anti-Israel nation out there. The rest have already shaken hands (Egypt, Turkey) or don't care (Malaysia, Indonesia).

    Not that Pakistan's stance means anything for the Palestinians, mind. It's basically all talk and zero action. I have a suspicion that the stance on the Israel-Palestine issue is one of the many ways to keep the nation's social fabric together. Always pays off to drum up an issue that everybody agrees on, if and when the going gets tough.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Alright - then the number is lower. Still it will only climb over any 10-year period.
    Based off what exactly? Pro-Israeli sentiment isn't going to increase in Pak especially if another armed conflict breaks out like in Gaza 2014, 2009 and Lebanon 2006. A few votes on this forum means nothing.


    I would wager that Pakistan is the most anti-Israel nation out there.
    You're conflating nations with governments, perhaps Pakistan's government is anti-Israeli however in terms of nations, the Arabs and a lot of other non-Arab Muslim countries have a very unfavorable opinion of Israel. Pakistani people as a nation are anti-Zionism and therefore Israel but there's no real ranking, if you were familiar with the other Muslim countries you would know how anti-Israel they are but I understand as Indian you're almost only exposed to Pakitanis. Also even in terms of governments, Pakistan isn't exactly the most Israeli- in fact they rarely give anti-Israeli statements and under Musharraf (good riddance) were even covertly considered "close, the most anti-Israel country in the world according to both Israel and the west is none other than Iran - perhaps you aren't well attuned to global affairs but Iran is considered Israel's biggest enemy right now and unlike in Pakistan, Al Quds day is actually a national holiday in Iran and they're actively involved in conflict zones around Israel (Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen etc) whereas Pakistan is notably absent in these theaters of war.

    The rest have already shaken hands (Egypt, Turkey) or don't care (Malaysia, Indonesia).

    Not that Pakistan's stance means anything for the Palestinians, mind
    I don't know what you even mean by this. Yes, a statement means nothing to Palestinians just like a statement from Algeria and Turkey and Oman and Bosnia are just words and no action. Governments issue statements out of solidarity, it's better than silence and apathy. I just don't get your point.
    It's basically all talk and zero action.
    95% of most foreign policy.
    I have a suspicion that the stance on the Israel-Palestine issue is one of the many ways to keep the nation's social fabric together. Always pays off to drum up an issue that everybody agrees on, if and when the going gets tough.
    That shows your poor understanding of Muslims and Pakistan. Pakistan stance is pro-Palestine and anti-Israel because the people overwhelmingly want that. Changing the position with regards to Palestine-Israel is basically suicide for any government or even army chief, it's like the blasphemy law. No govt would ever even explicitly support Israel and disavow Palestine. I don't think you understand Muslim sensibilities with regards to Palestine and Al Quds.

    Also it's laughable you think Pakistan "social fabric" is so fragile it's dependent on a Pro-Palestine/Anti-Zionism foreign policy It's barely even a feature in Pakistani politics and current affairs and usually comes up during flare ups in violence or UN speeches, otherwise Pakistan main foreign policy centered around Indian occupied Kashmir and lately the Hindutva threat and no Pakistan does need conflict with India or any country to keep the "social fabric" together, it's considerably more homogenous than India and can be travelled across much easier and in shorter amount of time - even according to a lot of Western travel vloggers they've notice a lot more national pride and unity in Pakistan than in India, so I'd suggest learning more about Pakistan before spinning your baseless theories.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElRaja View Post
    what has pakistan gained from not recognising israel. israel exists, its not going anywhere anytime soon. pak will however not recognise israel becuase it would be political suicide for any leader who chose to do so, therefore both countries will continue to maintain covert relations.
    They have not lost much either. Pakistan also does not recognize Armenia. No loss from that either.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Alright - then the number is lower. Still it will only climb over any 10-year period.

    I would wager that Pakistan is the most anti-Israel nation out there. The rest have already shaken hands (Egypt, Turkey) or don't care (Malaysia, Indonesia).
    Palestine is the most anti-Israel nation out there.

    As far as other Muslim countries go, if they had democracy most would break off relations with Israel if they had it in the first place.


    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post

    Not that Pakistan's stance means anything for the Palestinians, mind. It's basically all talk and zero action. I have a suspicion that the stance on the Israel-Palestine issue is one of the many ways to keep the nation's social fabric together. Always pays off to drum up an issue that everybody agrees on, if and when the going gets tough.
    In Pakistan the Israel/Palestine issue is rarely mentioned unless their is major violence going on.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Absolutely.

    We shouldn’t recognize the Palestinian cause. It is not our problem and also there is no solution in sight. Moreover, good terms with Israel will help us considerably.

    Unfortunately, it will not happen and that is why we will keep lagging behind the rest of the world.

    Ummah concept does not exist anymore after the emergence of the nation-state system and the decline of the Ottoman Empire.

    But you can trust Pakistan to live in its own delusional world in spite of the fact that we are repeatedly shown the door by other Muslim countries such as KSA.
    How will it help considerably? If we recognize Israel we wont lag behind the world anymore?

    Get a grip on a reality.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElRaja View Post
    friends, having you back? you make it sound like we talking about some teenage boys hanging out after school. countries only interact with other countries to serve their own motives, there are no permanent friendships, just common interests, or relationships of force and leverage.
    Firstly you cant be friends if you dont recognise their existance, Pakistan doesnt recognise Israel as a legitimate state. The premise of this thread is wrong to start with. Exactly Israeli self interests are ALL Muslim nations either do what they are told or they are enemies, Pakistan can be neither.



    israel has had its hand in nearly every american sponsored military venture pakistan has been a part of, the bcci was moving mossad money, pakistan and israels paths have crossed numerous times without having to establish formal relations.

    of course you are smart enough to know by highlighting "right now" you are creating a theoretical paradox, if i know about it, its not covert, and if its covert, how could i know about it... but no your right, lets assume pakistan tells israel to take a hike every time it tags along with any american foreign policy relating to Pakistan.... oh look at the time, that pbly would make for a decent bed time story.
    Mossad isn't involved in every CIA venture even though it may be given intel esp in the middle east/Pakistan. There are views of old contacts and working together but to say both nations HAVE covert relations is simply not true.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  54. #54
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    If Pakistan can have diplomatic relations with India, Pakistan's traditional enemy, then why can't Pakistan have relations with Israel?

    Moreover, Palestinians have never supported Pakistan, why should we give a hoot for them? In fact, the Palestinians have always supported India over Pakistan. Israel has no problems with Pakistan, it is always Pakistan which has issues with Israel.

    The Israel lobby is so strong in the U.S., that recognizing Israel will create tons of goodwill for Pakistan in the U.S., Canada, etc. The move will open doors for Pakistan to gain new advanced technology, military equipment and aid. We should be more selfish and think about Pakistan's interests and well-being for a change rather than meddling in other countries' affairs.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shah View Post
    If Pakistan can have diplomatic relations with India, Pakistan's traditional enemy, then why can't Pakistan have relations with Israel?
    Because the Pakistani public does not like Israel, and as Pakistan is a democracy the government has to take public opinion into account.

    Once Saudi Arabia recognizes Israel, then whoever the Pakistan PM is can make the case to the public that look even S. Arabia has recognized Israel so Pakistan should as well.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shah View Post
    If Pakistan can have diplomatic relations with India, Pakistan's traditional enemy, then why can't Pakistan have relations with Israel?

    Moreover, Palestinians have never supported Pakistan, why should we give a hoot for them? In fact, the Palestinians have always supported India over Pakistan. Israel has no problems with Pakistan, it is always Pakistan which has issues with Israel.

    The Israel lobby is so strong in the U.S., that recognizing Israel will create tons of goodwill for Pakistan in the U.S., Canada, etc. The move will open doors for Pakistan to gain new advanced technology, military equipment and aid. We should be more selfish and think about Pakistan's interests and well-being for a change rather than meddling in other countries' affairs.
    That's because the area that comprises modern day India was always India. The people living there aren't usurping or taking over land that doesn't belong to them (minus Kashmir).


    Meanwhile Israel is just a bunch of Polish Jews who got deposited in Palestine and through Western backing and funding took over the country.

  57. #57
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    People keep talking up Israel's technology as if they have some unknown alien tech hidden away


    Pakistan is already best buddies with China that are building everything from satellites, 5th gen stealth fighters (not one but two) and jet engines, submarines and air craft carriers. You think of it and China probably makes it. China dwarves Israel in every single aspect.


    Having relations with Israel will not open Pakistan's doors to any new tech that China cannot provide. Besides even if Pak has relations with Israel it will take decades for relation to build up to the level where military hardware could be bought.


    Needless to say any Pakistani government even thinking of having relations with the Zionists will be political suicide.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shah View Post
    The Israel lobby is so strong in the U.S., that recognizing Israel will create tons of goodwill for Pakistan in the U.S., Canada, etc. The move will open doors for Pakistan to gain new advanced technology, military equipment and aid. We should be more selfish and think about Pakistan's interests and well-being for a change rather than meddling in other countries' affairs.
    Here is a map of countries that recognize israel.Name:  C246E475-9D60-4356-BB9D-D568370AD684.jpg
Views: 689
Size:  35.4 KB.
    How many of them get advanced new technology, military hardware and aid just because they recognize israel? Also how is reliance on a foreign country a good thing? I don’t get the mental gymnastics behind these justifications. As of the existence of earth is tied to israel.

  59. #59
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    ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Imran Khan categorically denied Tuesday that Pakistan would recognise Israel — a few days after the UAE established formal relations with Tel Aviv — stating that Islamabad won't do so until Palestinians are not given their right to a "just settlement".

    PM Imran's comments came during a wide-ranging interview with Kamran Khan on Dunya News.

    “Whichever country wants to do it [recognise Israel], our stance is very clear. Our stance was cleared by Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah in 1947-48," said PM Imran. "Which was that we will never recognise Israel till the Palestinians do not get their rights."

    He said that Pakistan will not establish diplomatic relations with Israel till the Palestinians do not get a separate state of their own, which the people of Palestine accept, based on the Two-Nation Theory.

    The premier said that if Pakistan agreed to recognising Israel and gave up its principled stance then it will have to stop raising the issue of Kashmir as the situation in the disputed area was the same.

    "Hence, Pakistan cannot recognise Israel," he stated.

    https://www.geo.tv/latest/303393-pm-...olitics-of-80s


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  60. #60
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    Don't think this will happen - PM made it pretty clear.


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  61. #61
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    Not sure the streets of Pakistan are ready for this, would be a very risky move to take and that too for an unstable pm in his first term with coalitions with islamist parties in the north West provinces
    Last edited by chacha kashmiri; 21st August 2020 at 04:31.


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by chacha kashmiri View Post
    Not sure the streets of Pakistan are ready for this, would be a very risky move to take and that too for an unstable pm in his first term with coalitions with islamist parties in the north West provinces
    PTI has 2/3 majority in KPK they do not need any coalition.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by chacha kashmiri View Post
    Not sure the streets of Pakistan are ready for this, would be a very risky move to take and that too for an unstable pm in his first term with coalitions with islamist parties in the north West provinces



    In Pakistan its not only Mullahs who dislike Israel. Pretty much the entire country does not like them. From Mullahs to the hardcore feminist. From the Burgers to the Bun Kababs.

    If the Pakistani people had an election between BJP and Likud, BJP would win every seat.

  64. #64
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    I voted no. Israel is an important ally for us, and probably best for us that Pakistanis and Israelis have no beneficial (or better yet, an adversarial) relation.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    PTI has 2/3 majority in KPK they do not need any coalition.
    Maybe now it does, it didn't prior to the last elections


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by chacha kashmiri View Post
    Maybe now it does, it didn't prior to the last elections
    The last elections were in 2018 and he won 2/3rd majority in KPK. Update your knowledge before acting like an expert.

  67. #67
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    Pakistan should wait and watch. No need to take a knee-jerk reaction-based decision.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    The last elections were in 2018 and he won 2/3rd majority in KPK. Update your knowledge before acting like an expert.
    You're right, Ik seems to have his own ideas now and hopefully he manages to do something for the palestinians


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

  69. #69
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    Ignoring the potential economic benefit, it could be ill advised national diplomacy from Pakistan given the publics selective outrage and infatuation for specific causes, however if there are oppourtunities behind closed doors then they should be considered

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Pakistan should wait and watch. No need to take a knee-jerk reaction-based decision.
    Seems like too late for that now

  71. #71
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    Pakistan’s stance on Palestine ‘has not changed’

    The Foreign Office has reiterated that Pakistan’s stance on Middle East peace process and Palestine has not changed as US President Donald Trump on Friday announced a peace deal between Israel and Bahrain.

    “Pakistan’s position on Palestine remains the same,” spokesperson Zahid Hafeez Chaudhri said while commenting on the Bahrain and Israel peace deal, on Saturday.

    The news was announced by Trump after Bahrain’s King Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the US president held a telephonic conversation.

    “Another historic breakthrough today! Our two great friends Israel and the Kingdom of Bahrain agree to a peace deal – the second Arab country to make peace with Israel in 30 days!” Trump had tweeted.

    According to the joint statement of the US, the Kingdom of Bahrain and Israel, Bahrain has agreed to formalise the deal with Israel at a ceremony to be held on September 15 at the White House.

    The FO spokesperson said, “Peace and stability in the Middle East is Pakistan’s priority. There has been no change in Pakistan’s principled position on Palestine.

    “We are committed to recognising all the rights of the Palestinian people, including the right to vote.”

    Chaudhri reiterated that Pakistan always supported a two-state solution for a long-lasting peace.

    “This two-state solution is in line with the relevant UN and OIC resolutions as well as international law.

    “According to this solution, the borders will be in accordance with the conditions before 1967 and Al-Quds Al-Sharif will be the capital of Palestine.

    “In the current situation, Pakistan’s position will be in the context of the aspirations and rights of the Palestinians. This position will also depend on maintaining regional peace, security and stability.”

    https://tribune.com.pk/story/2263730...as-not-changed

  72. #72
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    Pakistan is doing absolutely the right thing by staying away from this development. There is absolutely no call for Pakistan to be involved in here. Pakistan never had a diplomatic relation and have a valid reason to continue not to have one.

    In past Pakistan got involved in America's war on terror for greater good. What good was that? The voices right now were similar to the voices then. Although the both are completely different issue the fundamental is the same which is that Pakistan has nothing to do with it so shouldn't get involved.

  73. #73
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    Imran will never do it and rightly so.

    Pakistan has been consistent on its stance towards Israel and that won't change.

  74. #74
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    As a Pakistani, if it benefits us I wouldn’t have a problem normalizing ties with Israel. There’s no reason not to have good ties with them.

    Although I sympathize with the people of Palestine, this is not my battle.

    As Pakistanis we should not be stuck fighting other people’s battles. We’ve done that for years for the Saudis and Americans. Now we’re going to have Palestine dictate our foreign policy? This is why they don’t respect Pakistanis because we act as their subservients.

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    Nations should have diplomatic relations based on mutual benefits. If Pakistan thinks any relationship with Israel as a benefit..then they should go ahead.
    In my personal opinion, they will benefit on having relations with Israel. But since i have no stake in Pakistan and its peoples wish.. its up to them..

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    Lol at the people in this thread propagating lies like Palestine supports India over Pakistan and that they couldn't be bothered about our issues like Kashmir. All the Palestinians I have ever met were some of the most passionate and upright people especially regarding concerns of Muslim Ummah. I am a Kashmiri and the bond with my Palestinian friends has been as strong as blood brothers. Palestinians have nothing to do with puppet governments of Arabic nations.

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    Yes of course we should. Can anyone explain why we shouldn't? There is no justification for not recognising Israel. Issue of Palestine is not Pakistan's responsibility. Lets do what we can to benefit Pakistan instead of fighting other peoples battles.

    Pakistan Zindabad.

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    It's a shame a poll like this has even been added in a Pakistani forum. Muslims today have reached the worst point in their history and all these neo pseudo secular libtards without shame have been the principal reason. They will sell their sisters and mothers too if it benefits them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrhandsome View Post
    It's a shame a poll like this has even been added in a Pakistani forum. Muslims today have reached the worst point in their history and all these neo pseudo secular libtards without shame have been the principal reason. They will sell their sisters and mothers too if it benefits them
    Okay. I'll bite.

    Why should Pakistan not recognize Israel? What are your justifications from an Islamic perspective?




    Sua cuique voluptas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrhandsome View Post
    It's a shame a poll like this has even been added in a Pakistani forum. Muslims today have reached the worst point in their history and all these neo pseudo secular libtards without shame have been the principal reason. They will sell their sisters and mothers too if it benefits them
    This post is a reminder of why we need a secular, liberal Pakistan.


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