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  1. #1
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    How good is Joe Root as a Test captain?

    Let me kick off this thread with quotes from Nasser Hussain, speaking on Sky Cricket


    NASSER HUSSAIN says cricket captaincy is a unique challenge - his record as England captain reading P 45, W 17, L 15. By way of comparison, Joe Root's record currently reads P 42 W 23 L 15. So Root's win percentage is better but currently Hussain is probably regarded as the better captain (so far). Nasser says results are the most important thing...

    "Fans who pay money to watch don't want to leave grounds saying 'Joe Root had a good day as captain but we lost'. They want their team to win.

    "Root's win-percentage is currently the fourth best of all England Test captains. If he was losing games we'd be sure to bring that up, so he should be judged on his wins too. I think he's doing a fine job; he's won all six of the last six games he's captained.

    "But obviously you are judged by more than that. You've got to try to make the team better as a leader; the whole has to be greater than the sum of its parts."


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  2. #2
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    He is doing a good job as captain. His record as OP mentioned is very good. His batting form has been a worry but I think he has done a good job as a leader and in terms of results.

  3. #3
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    Will be decided after test series against India. He has already lost against Australia in Australia and won in South Africa. If he wins in India, would count as of the great captains alongside Cook.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    He is doing a good job as captain. His record as OP mentioned is very good. His batting form has been a worry but I think he has done a good job as a leader and in terms of results.
    Think he has good respect from the team and looks more like a friend then a overbearing leader.

    May help that when he has seniors playing for him.


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    He is doing a good job as captain. His record as OP mentioned is very good. His batting form has been a worry but I think he has done a good job as a leader and in terms of results.
    Think he has good respect from the team and looks more like a friend then a overbearing leader.

    May help that when he has seniors playing for him.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Think he has good respect from the team and looks more like a friend then a overbearing leader.

    May help that when he has seniors playing for him.
    Buttler said Joe Root spoke to him before he went out to bat in the OT 2nd innings and it helped him a lot.

    Needs to be more consistent in getting big scores.

  7. #7
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    Joe seems like a very likable guy. His captaincy is decent so far. I expect him to captain for another 4-5 atleast. He needs to get his confidence in batting though

  8. #8
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    He is a very underrated captain, but the problem for England is that captaincy is harming his batting.

  9. #9
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    He is a nice guy but not a good captain. England have had better captains.


    Bangladeshi Fan || [B]

  10. #10
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    Think he's getting better and better with time, he's been fairly impressive since the South African tour. Believe he's already surpassed Cook as a leader, though some way to go to reach the level of someone like Strauss or Vaughan.

  11. #11
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    Any past England captain would have the same record as h with this bowling line up.
    Ie struggle in India and Aus, batting a bit of a toss up on NZ conditions and win mostly elsewhere


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  12. #12
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    Not a good captain tactically and has been quite average in terms of run scoring since he took over the captaincy.

    Like most England batters, he will again regain somewhat of that form post captaincy end and end with a test career average of 47-48.
    Last edited by Ab Fan; 14th August 2020 at 16:16.

  13. #13
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    Looked ordinary when he was first given captaincy but, he definitely has grown as captain since then.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoshiarpurexpress View Post
    Will be decided after test series against India. He has already lost against Australia in Australia and won in South Africa. If he wins in India, would count as of the great captains alongside Cook.
    What makes you think Cook was a good skipper? He just scored a lot of runs that series, KP and Bell has crucial innings, and he had two good spinners.

    I think Swann was the brains trust of that side, advising the skipper from slip and setting fields for Monty.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smudger View Post
    Joe seems like a very likable guy. His captaincy is decent so far. I expect him to captain for another 4-5 atleast. He needs to get his confidence in batting though
    Not confidence, concentration.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoshiarpurexpress View Post
    Will be decided after test series against India. He has already lost against Australia in Australia and won in South Africa. If he wins in India, would count as of the great captains alongside Cook.
    Cook is by no means a great captain. Strauss gave him a top two team in the world and he slowly ran it downhill

  17. #17
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    Weak captain. His captaincy during Smithís innings at edgebaston was embarrassing

  18. #18
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    No proof needed - but NASSER HUSSAIN (for Sky Sports) has some in the third man's chair anyway. Check out the difference in these two graphics...

    "I could give you 10 examples of England going past Rizwan's bat by bowling a full length and why should they change?

    "They had him in all sorts of trouble with lavish movement - he was going nowhere - and they were absolutely brilliant at targeting the top of off-stump after lunch but then it became a scattergun approach for his last 50 deliveries.

    "All eyes will be on Joe Root but surely Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad and Chris Woakes must say to Joe 'give me the ball, give me the field, I'm bowling as if I'm bowling to an opening batsman and I will get them out'."


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  19. #19
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    Speaking at tea, MICHAEL ATHERTON (for Sky Sports) said England had made a bad tactical change after reducing Pakistan to 176-8…

    "England were very good in the opening 40 minutes after lunch when they bowled fuller but I'm afraid that in the last 45 minutes before tea, they completely lost the plot. As a former captain, you understand it is complicated and the game can run away from you slightly. But they had a second new ball in the hands of Stuart Broad in the most peachy bowling conditions you can imagine and there were six men out on the boundary. There are often decisions that are 50- 50 but I think most people would say, including England, that that was palpably wrong.”

    ==

    Seems England bowlers all over the place to Rizwan - Root captaincy disappointing in this area

    Last edited by MenInG; 14th August 2020 at 22:51.


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  20. #20
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    Anderson and Broad bowled well post lunch getting the wickets of Babar and Yasir but once they had Curran and Woakes as bowling change, they allowed Rizwan to get easy runs and on several occasions bowled him on pads with a couple of bowls left in the over allowing him to keep the strike.

    Broad and Woakes were quite average with the new bowl as well. Woakes has surprisingly been quite average throughout this match.

    In contrast, Rizwan batted like a street fighter with very smart game awareness and strokeplay.
    Last edited by Ab Fan; 14th August 2020 at 23:00.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Cook is by no means a great captain. Strauss gave him a top two team in the world and he slowly ran it downhill
    To be fair, his players aged as a unit and retired under cumulative physical and psychological injury. Not many top guys came up to replace them, only Root and Stokes.

  22. #22
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    I think Joe Root is a poor captain. Tactically, he is not sharp at all. His batting has gone downhill considerably as captain. But the England players seem to rally around him and I don't see his place in the side in question until the twilight years of his career. Therefore he is a reasonable, safe choice. But I don't think its right attribute England's recent form to his captaincy.

    I think Williamson is probably the best captain going around. Very sharp tactically and has very good cricketing sense. Morgan is one of the best if you looked at limited-overs only. Kohli is not bad, very much in the Ponting mold of captaincy. And that's pretty much it.
    Last edited by RedwoodOriginal; 14th August 2020 at 23:47.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    I think Joe Root is a poor captain. Tactically, he is not sharp at all. His batting has gone downhill considerably as captain. But the England players seem to rally around him and I don't see his place in the side in question until the twilight years of his career. Therefore he is a reasonable, safe choice. But I don't think its right attribute England's recent form to his captaincy.

    I think Williamson is probably the best captain going around. Very sharp tactically and has very good cricketing sense. Morgan is one of the best if you looked at limited-overs only. Kohli is not bad, very much in the Ponting mold of captaincy. And that's pretty much it.
    I feel that he is blessed with a good team. People like Broad/Anderson etc can always cover for his mistakes with their performances.


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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    I feel that he is blessed with a good team. People like Broad/Anderson etc can always cover for his mistakes with their performances.
    Don't forget Stokes. One wonders where England and Joe Root would be without these three.

  25. #25
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    Joe Root in the last two years has Asad Shafiq-like stats. He's been averaging 38 which is slightly over Shafiq who has been averaging 37 something.

    Ludicrous to think he is still mentioned in the Fab 4. It should be clear by now that he is nowhere near Smith, Kohli, Williamson.

  26. #26
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    His win percentage as captain is quite decent, and he has won his last 6 tests as captain. He's not as bad as everyone says as captain.


    Arsenal all the way!! (and Pakistan, of course!)

  27. #27
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    Joe Root after the 2nd Test vs Pakistan:

    “They’ve coped with it the best that they can. We were really excited about this week, a new challenge for us, and it’s disappointing not to get in as much cricket as we’d have liked - but nice to be stood here still 1-0 up in the series.

    “Potentially, in England, we may be able to start half an hour earlier - if we lose time - I think you want to protect the crux of Test cricket as much as you can, in terms of the ball, but it is something to look at it I suppose.

    “But I do think it has been a week of strange circumstances. It’s not very often that you see bad light play such a part over a five-day game. Everyone has coped with it as best they can.”

    “I thought he played excellently today. I spoke to the batting group before we started play today about making sure that we were very professional in how we approached this session - and for what is a very young top order, in particular, it was a great experience for us.

    “All the guys are in contention for the next Test; thankfully, we have got some fantastic options to choose from, we can take the surface into account and see where everyone is at physically - we haven’t played a lot this week, but it’s still important to do that.”

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    Joe Root in the last two years has Asad Shafiq-like stats. He's been averaging 38 which is slightly over Shafiq who has been averaging 37 something.

    Ludicrous to think he is still mentioned in the Fab 4. It should be clear by now that he is nowhere near Smith, Kohli, Williamson.
    His record is still better than Williamson in most conditions, who is actually the most overrated batsman out of the four. He gets away with it because New Zealand is a very neutral team.

    Root has certainly fallen away though. He was almost on par with Kohli and Smith until 2016-17 but that is not the case anymore. Williamson though was never in that league.

  29. #29
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    Joe roots stats as captain are decent at the moment, but overall he will be judged against Australia where he's already been hammered away and failed to regain the ashes on home soil last year. Also India will be a acid test away and currently lacks the tools in his armour to get anything from there, also his batting has badly declined with leadership responsibilities

  30. #30
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    Joe Root urges England to finish Test summer on a high

    England captain Joe Root has called on his side to seize the moment in their series decider against Pakistan, with uncertainty over when and where they will next get the chance to play Test cricket.

    The third Test at the Ageas Bowl represents their sixth in just seven weeks as part of a packed fixture list caused by the coronavirus lockdown, but the feast is about to turn to famine for the country’s red-ball stars.

    Their next scheduled series is a trip to India in the new year but the ongoing uncertainty caused by the pandemic means all future tours are shrouded in a degree of doubt.

    It seems likely that contest could still go ahead in the United Arab Emirates but, having seen widespread cancellations and postponements around the world, Root has reminded his players that the next five days is all they bank on.

    England go into the match 1-0 up, having already seen off the West Indies 2-1, and the skipper wants to see a big performance to finish.

    “My message to the guys today was quite simple really: we don’t know when the next time is that we’ll play Test cricket so let’s make sure we throw everything into this week,” said Root.

    “Let’s make sure we leave no stones unturned and we give everything to each other and the badge going into this last game. We feel extremely lucky to have got the opportunity to play right now. At the start of the summer, we were dreading the thought of not seeing any international cricket.

    “Credit to both touring teams for coming over and giving us that opportunity to play, and to both boards, it’s been amazing to be a part of this experience. Hopefully we can have a great finish to it.

    “There’s been some really exciting games and I think it’s made for some entertaining viewing at times. I fully expect everyone to give everything over the next five days and make sure we give ourselves the best chance of finishing the series 2-0.”

    The only real lowlight thus far came during the previous Test in Southampton, a rare draw that was ruined by persistent bad light and rain. There was enough frustration on all sides to force through a short-notice change to the playing conditions, with match referee Chris Broad empowered to pull play forward by half-an-hour to 10.30am should any play be lost during the game.

    There was a consensus among all parties on the new flexible arrangement, with both teams, the International Cricket Council and various broadcast partners all seeing the value in opening up more potential playing time.

    In addition there is a commitment from the match officials to “maximise playing time while it is still safe to do so”, a recognition of the fact that umpires Richard Kettleborough and Michael Gough may have been too eager to lead the sides off last time around.

    Gough will be in the middle again this time, while Kettleborough swaps third umpire duties with Richard Illingworth.

    “It seems a sensible way of doing it. For the environment we find ourselves in and the times that we’re in as well, it seems a really good way of maximising hours of play,” said Root.

    “I felt for the umpires last week. They did everything they could by the letter of the law to keep us out there when possible, and I think this will enable us to play a little bit more cricket.”

    https://www.bt.com/sport/news/2020/a...mmer-on-a-high

  31. #31
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    Some smart thinking from Root to bring Pope in front of BA to let him know!


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    Quite mediocre.

    It becomes increasingly difficult to support non performing captain. He's batting has fallen apart, completely ever since he became captain.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Quite mediocre.

    It becomes increasingly difficult to support non performing captain. He's batting has fallen apart, completely ever since he became captain.
    It's a good job the team is stil winning otherwise he could have got the axed

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    It's a good job the team is stil winning otherwise he could have got the axed
    Winning teams don't sustain non performing captains for too long. I'm afraid to say times running out of his hands. His average is already down to 45, it could be 40 within an year or two if the trend continues.

    How far would England carry him on the back of wins against minnow nations while his batting is falling apart

  35. #35
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    A bit flat now that the wicket not doing that much - guess he is lucky to have some good wicket-takers.


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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Quite mediocre.

    It becomes increasingly difficult to support non performing captain. He's batting has fallen apart, completely ever since he became captain.
    I can see this being said about Babar if he gets the test captaincy one day. Don't think he's cut out for it.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    I can see this being said about Babar if he gets the test captaincy one day. Don't think he's cut out for it.
    Agreed - but shouldnt the best batsman/bowler be made captain?


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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Agreed - but shouldnt the best batsman/bowler be made captain?
    Ideally but you are also looking for certain traits best suited to the cricket set up.

    Joe Root finds himself in a set up, he can sit back and let the system and the talent around him continue the winning tradition But if his non performing streak with the bat continues the same system will quietly replace and dump him very soon.

    It's like that for England in all formats.

    If Joe Root was to be captain of Pakistan from tomorrow, I can't imagine how hard things would get for him. A guy who's used to the system around him deliver without much intervention, a perfect automated assembly line with no manual intervention. He'd resign after a couple of months.

    Pakistan is used to leaders like Imran, Wasim, Inzamam who have to literally baby sit their squad and shield them from media, fans scrutiny by taking all pressure on themselves.

    Babar from what I have seen looks more like Root. He could be a captain with a 70% win rate in Australia, NZ, England where the system will deliver on his behalf , but not in Pakistan.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Winning teams don't sustain non performing captains for too long. I'm afraid to say times running out of his hands. His average is already down to 45, it could be 40 within an year or two if the trend continues.

    How far would England carry him on the back of wins against minnow nations while his batting is falling apart
    I agree but does that mean he should he sacked now he will proberly be captain for atleast 1 more year.england rarely play minnows in tests

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    We don’t know what the future holds for Test cricket, admits Joe Root

    England captain Joe Root has no idea what the immediate future holds for his Test team but stands ready to guide his side through an uncertain international calendar.

    Having just wrapped up back-to-back series wins over the West Indies and Pakistan, contests which took place in cricket’s first ‘bio-secure bubble’ in response to the coronavirus pandemic, England now face a period where they cannot be certain when or where they will play red-ball cricket again.

    At some stage their abandoned tour to Sri Lanka must be rearranged and they have a commitment to visit India in the new year, but the ongoing health crisis has already forced this autumn’s T20 World Cup to be postponed, meaning nothing can be taken for granted.

    One possible scenario involves several months of inactivity, followed by a backlog of games that could stretch the resources of the squad and the resilience of the players, but Root understands the challenge.


    “We don’t know what the future looks like in terms of Test cricket right now, we have nothing set in stone,” said Root.

    “When it does happen it could come thick and fast and there could be a lot of games. I like to think I’m very grateful of getting the opportunity to play cricket for a living anyway, but it really hit home at the start of the summer that we could potentially not play a game and that was quite a fright really.

    “Its important that whenever we do get the chance to play again that we have some form of cricket before that. There are plans starting to come together, but until things are slightly more settled in terms of a schedule we’ll have to wait and see.

    “There will be a lot of responsibility put on individual players to make sure they’re managing themselves and their own games as well as possible until then.”

    England have chopped and changed their bowling resources somewhat over the past seven weeks, but the bulk of the work fell to their most experienced trio – player of the summer Stuart Broad, Chris Woakes and James Anderson, who became the first seamer in history to reach 600 Test scalps on the final day of action against Pakistan.

    All will remain key components of the side but, with Jofra Archer still searching for his ideal role, Mark Wood sorely under-worked with one appearance from six Tests and Sam Curran always an attractive all-round option, more rotation could be on the cards as time goes on.

    “We have to be a quite smart and quite shrewd about how we do manage the player workloads,” Root explained.

    “It’s about making sure they are able to perform at their best as often as possible and we’ll need to balance that with picking the best XI for any given conditions and surface.”

    On a personal level Root has expressed no desire for rest and has instead thrown his name into the hat for the opening game of Yorkshire’s Vitality Blast campaign on Thursday – just 48 hours after signing off from over two months in the England camp.

    None of England’s Test contingent have been considered for the imminent T20 series against Pakistan, with no overlap between the squads, but Root’s move suggests he is keen to get back into the limited-overs set-up to face rivals Australia in 20 and 50-over series next month.

    “That is completely out my hands, I just want to make the most of this summer,” he said.

    “It will be lovely to play some T20 cricket, whether that’s for Yorkshire or England, I just want to play the most cricket I can from what is available. I’m already looking forward to getting back out there and hopefully scoring some runs.”

    https://www.bt.com/sport/news/2020/a...dmits-joe-root

  41. #41
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    A lot is said about how weak Englandís batting has been over the last 2-3 years and the fact that Root, as Englandís best batsman, is going through a prolonged slump as well, he has still managed the best winning percentage among England captains over the last 30 years.

    He is only 3 short of equaling Vaughan as Englandís most prolific captain.

    Clearly a very underrated captain and certainly one of the finest England have ever had.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    A lot is said about how weak Englandís batting has been over the last 2-3 years and the fact that Root, as Englandís best batsman, is going through a prolonged slump as well, he has still managed the best winning percentage among England captains over the last 30 years.

    He is only 3 short of equaling Vaughan as Englandís most prolific captain.

    Clearly a very underrated captain and certainly one of the finest England have ever had.
    Joe root is a very fine player. Most people now underestimate him and maybe rightfully so. Since being captain his average has gone from 52 to 47.9. But he still averages more than any England batsman since 1970. Thatís how good he is. Any Runs in England are tough runs. Nobody has averaged over 50 since the 60s when the bowling was weaker. I still believe in joe root to become englands greatest batsman since 1970. He has a few rivals. Boycott, pietersen, gooch are all arguably better at the moment. But joe is only 30. He will pass them all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    What makes you think Cook was a good skipper? He just scored a lot of runs that series, KP and Bell has crucial innings, and he had two good spinners.

    I think Swann was the brains trust of that side, advising the skipper from slip and setting fields for Monty.
    For me its about winning overseas. Under Cook, after losing the first test in 2012 in India, he inspired the comeback with second innings hundred and then another one in the next test.
    So he inspired his teams apart from runs.

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    Joe Root 24 wins as England test captain.

    Today's win for England against Sri Lanka was Joe Roots 24th as test match captain for England. Only Michael Vaughan as more. Vaughan has 26 so Root should surpass this number.

    Joe Root is destined to finish his career as one of England's best batters and one of their best test match captains.

  45. #45
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    I think Root is a good captain but his batting has suffered due to the captaincy. Let's see if this changes.

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    No one can overtake Mike Brearly and Nasser Hussain as the best English skippers.

  47. #47
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    Root is an average captain. Vaughan, Hussain and Strauss are great captains.

    These days everyone win 80% of their matches at home and draws are rare, so the total wins are higher for the captains of this era compared to past one.

    Win % of active modern era batters:-

    Williamson 60%
    Kohli 58%
    Root 53.33%
    Smith 52.94%

  48. #48
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    He is a very underrated captain. Doesnít get enough credit because his own form has been patchy.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Root is an average captain. Vaughan, Hussain and Strauss are great captains.

    These days everyone win 80% of their matches at home and draws are rare, so the total wins are higher for the captains of this era compared to past one.

    Win % of active modern era batters:-

    Williamson 60%
    Kohli 58%
    Root 53.33%
    Smith 52.94%
    Nasser and Vaughan sure. They had good pace attacks and robust batting.

    Strausser's success was based on his gun top seven piling runs on quickly, and then hoping that Anderson or Swann would take five wickets, supported by an excellent slip cordon.

    Root won all three tests on the last tour of SL, three our of four in SA and now another in SL.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Nasser and Vaughan sure. They had good pace attacks and robust batting.

    Strausser's success was based on his gun top seven piling runs on quickly, and then hoping that Anderson or Swann would take five wickets, supported by an excellent slip cordon.

    Root won all three tests on the last tour of SL, three our of four in SA and now another in SL.
    Strauss was the leader among the men. He was smart, astute and authoritative. Won his team an Ashes in Australia, while Root has an awful record as captain in Ashes.

    Root is neither a leader among the men, nor smart, aggressive or ruthless. He is not tactically as good as a Williamson or an aggressive leader like Kohli.

  51. #51
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    Brilliant batting and captaincy to convincingly outplay the greatest Asian Test team of all time in their own backyard.

    About time he gets respect and recognition for his leadership.

    Everyone is too busy pampering the overrated Kane Williamson.

  52. #52
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    The strategy post tea on Day 4 was absolutely shocking and timid.

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    Still not sure. Lol

    On one hand he is leading from the front with bat in hand and is playing in God Mode, but then again it has taken him a number of years and many failures at the crease to reach this level.

    And on one hand he is making some fantastic bowling changes and managing his guysí mental health really well in the Covid bubble (particularly Leach), but then again he is making a number of other tactical decisions out on the field which I have disagreed with.

    Still, six consecutive Test wins away from home and two home series wins in the English summer canít particularly be argued with.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    The strategy post tea on Day 4 was absolutely shocking and timid.
    There is more to captaincy than tactics. And I don't think Root is bad tactically. He is clearly do something right when he has won 26 wins as captain.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    There is more to captaincy than tactics. And I don't think Root is bad tactically. He is clearly do something right when he has won 26 wins as captain.
    In this test, he was brilliant in his field setting and giving confidence to his bowlers. The way he kept his faith on Jack Leach after he was taken apart by Rishabh Pants and made sure he was brought back at right time and then used him more effectively in the second inning, giving him a go ahead of Bess in the second inning and using both his pacers with the old ball was brilliant.

    But the strategy of going for "how not to lose" instead of "going for win" post tea on Day 4 was a blasphemy and rightly ridiculed by a lot of ex-cricketers. Rather than blocking 5-6 overs, if they would have hit out those overs for 25-30 runs, the target would have been 450 instead of 420 and if there was even a 0.01% chance of chasing, that would have also gone had they gone for runs in those extra overs rather than blocking.

  56. #56
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    I adore him as a batsman,indeed a class act but don't think he's a great captain

    Today when gill was get going against english spinners he suddenly spread the field when 320 odd runs were needed,he's lucky that jimmy save his day with a jaffa

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    In this test, he was brilliant in his field setting and giving confidence to his bowlers. The way he kept his faith on Jack Leach after he was taken apart by Rishabh Pants and made sure he was brought back at right time and then used him more effectively in the second inning, giving him a go ahead of Bess in the second inning and using both his pacers with the old ball was brilliant.

    But the strategy of going for "how not to lose" instead of "going for win" post tea on Day 4 was a blasphemy and rightly ridiculed by a lot of ex-cricketers. Rather than blocking 5-6 overs, if they would have hit out those overs for 25-30 runs, the target would have been 450 instead of 420 and if there was even a 0.01% chance of chasing, that would have also gone had they gone for runs in those extra overs rather than blocking.
    The pitch wasn’t easy to score on. Even Buttler was struggling. In hindsight they should have declared earlier, but I think they had Indias run chase in Australia and West Indies chase against Bangladesh in mind. Furthermore in the end, it doesn’t really matter as England got the job done comfortably.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protea Fan View Post
    I adore him as a batsman,indeed a class act but don't think he's a great captain

    Today when gill was get going against english spinners he suddenly spread the field when 320 odd runs were needed,he's lucky that jimmy save his day with a jaffa
    He has now won 24 tests, as many as Vaughan. One more and his passes the record. He has returned to batting form and his position is now unassailable. I think he will set a record for England test wins that will never be passed.

    Thatís a lot of ďluckĒ.

  59. #59
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    Both Kohli and Root have the opportunity to surpass G. Smith as the most prolific Test captain of all time.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protea Fan View Post
    I adore him as a batsman,indeed a class act but don't think he's a great captain

    Today when gill was get going against english spinners he suddenly spread the field when 320 odd runs were needed,he's lucky that jimmy save his day with a jaffa
    He saw the ball reversing and brought Anderson on who did his job. It is called good captaincy.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    But the strategy of going for "how not to lose" instead of "going for win" post tea on Day 4 was a blasphemy and rightly ridiculed by a lot of ex-cricketers. Rather than blocking 5-6 overs, if they would have hit out those overs for 25-30 runs, the target would have been 450 instead of 420 and if there was even a 0.01% chance of chasing, that would have also gone had they gone for runs in those extra overs rather than blocking.
    Or.... if they had got out, India would have had another ten overs, charged to 80-0 before the close, and the target would have looked far easier to Kohli with Pant in reserve.

    I think Root remembered what happened on previous tours and played accordingly.

    And was proven correct.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Both Kohli and Root have the opportunity to surpass G. Smith as the most prolific Test captain of all time.
    Misbah has 26 test wins.
    Imran has 14 test wins.

    Misbah >>>>> Imran as test captain.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Misbah has 26 test wins.
    Imran has 14 test wins.

    Misbah >>>>> Imran as test captain.
    Misbah did not improve Pakistan cricket in any aspect. He did not change the culture of Pakistan cricket, he just managed to produce wins with the resources that he had.

    Imran Khan on the other hand a far bigger influence than Misbah on the future of Pakistan cricket. Pakistan cricket before Imran was different to Pakistan cricket after Imran.

    That is why Misbah cannot be considered a better captain than Imran.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Or.... if they had got out, India would have had another ten overs, charged to 80-0 before the close, and the target would have looked far easier to Kohli with Pant in reserve.

    I think Root remembered what happened on previous tours and played accordingly.

    And was proven correct.
    Although it was a negative mentality, but even if we assume that they wanted to ensure India are left with no chance, why were they blocking out. I mean the lead is almost 400, 4 wickets still left and about 120 overs left. You rather bat those 10 overs and score 45-50 runs, you had one of the great ball strikers out there in Buttler and he was tuk-tuking.

    Good that they ended up winning otherwise even a draw would have been enough to bring all the criticism out regarding the strategy they went with post tea.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Although it was a negative mentality, but even if we assume that they wanted to ensure India are left with no chance, why were they blocking out. I mean the lead is almost 400, 4 wickets still left and about 120 overs left. You rather bat those 10 overs and score 45-50 runs, you had one of the great ball strikers out there in Buttler and he was tuk-tuking.

    Good that they ended up winning otherwise even a draw would have been enough to bring all the criticism out regarding the strategy they went with post tea.
    Or was it positive cricket, correct tactics in the circumstances, considering wickets lost and time left in the game? I think so.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Misbah has 26 test wins.
    Imran has 14 test wins.

    Misbah >>>>> Imran as test captain.
    I dispute that. Pakistan under Imran won in India for the first time, in England for the first time, and gave WI a fright in their yard.

    A lot more tests were draws in Imran’s day because batsmen had tighter defensive techniques, scoring was slower, and grounds took longer to recover from rain breaks.

    Imran also lifted a World Cup.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Or was it positive cricket, correct tactics in the circumstances, considering wickets lost and time left in the game? I think so.
    With a lead of 400 runs in hand, about 3.5 sessions left and 4 wickets still in hand, how is blocking a positive strategy?

    You rather look to further increase the lead, not block to reduce the overs.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I dispute that. Pakistan under Imran won in India for the first time, in England for the first time, and gave WI a fright in their yard.

    A lot more tests were draws in Imran’s day because batsmen had tighter defensive techniques, scoring was slower, and grounds took longer to recover from rain breaks.

    Imran also lifted a World Cup.
    Yeah I know. It was not related to that.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    With a lead of 400 runs in hand, about 3.5 sessions left and 4 wickets still in hand, how is blocking a positive strategy?

    You rather look to further increase the lead, not block to reduce the overs.
    For the reason I gave in #61. Itís chess not draughts.

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    Root has improved his leadership skills alot with experience, I guess his test will come when Anderson and broad are no longer around .

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    Stuart Broad looks like the one bowler who might get a wicket with his pacy legcutters. Had a dropped chance off his first over. And yet, after 63 overs of India's 2nd innings, he's bowled a grand 3 overs.

    3 overs.

    Is this some crafty plan by Root as he saves him up for the next test match or something

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    How is Root as captain?

    Some of the Root's decisions.

    1) 4 pacers on turning tracks where India played 3 spinners.

    2) Played only Anderson on the pitch having plenty of help for the pacers.

    3) Playing just 3 full-time bowlers and packing the side with batsmen. Anderson and Stokes gave it all, but they were visibly tired. If they had one more bowler then the workload would have been less.

    4) I noticed that Eng bowled only 82 overs yesterday. That's the very low number of overs given the opposition lost only 6 wickets. Well, it may work better with bowlers fresh the next day, but Root may miss the next test.

    5) Bess did not bowl that poorly in the first test, but Root immediately dropped him and kept him out of the side in the two most turning tracks of this series. I don't think it will give confidence to any spinner.


    Root did win 3 tosses and allowed Eng the best conditions to bat, but that's very little to do with decisions.


    What do you all think? Results can still go against you, but some very poor decisions in picking teams.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Some of the Root's decisions.

    1) 4 pacers on turning tracks where India played 3 spinners.

    2) Played only Anderson on the pitch having plenty of help for the pacers.

    3) Playing just 3 full-time bowlers and packing the side with batsmen. Anderson and Stokes gave it all, but they were visibly tired. If they had one more bowler then the workload would have been less.

    4) I noticed that Eng bowled only 82 overs yesterday. That's the very low number of overs given the opposition lost only 6 wickets. Well, it may work better with bowlers fresh the next day, but Root may miss the next test.

    5) Bess did not bowl that poorly in the first test, but Root immediately dropped him and kept him out of the side in the two most turning tracks of this series. I don't think it will give confidence to any spinner.


    Root did win 3 tosses and allowed Eng the best conditions to bat, but that's very little to do with decisions.


    What do you all think? Results can still go against you, but some very poor decisions in picking teams.
    All points are valid. Poor selection of final XI throughout the series.
    Won 3 crucial tosses but couldn't utilized properly.
    Team management decision on rotation policy also dented their chances.


    Virat, ABD, KP and Sir Viv.
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    Misbah is a better captain than Root in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Some of the Root's decisions.

    1) 4 pacers on turning tracks where India played 3 spinners.

    2) Played only Anderson on the pitch having plenty of help for the pacers.

    3) Playing just 3 full-time bowlers and packing the side with batsmen. Anderson and Stokes gave it all, but they were visibly tired. If they had one more bowler then the workload would have been less.

    4) I noticed that Eng bowled only 82 overs yesterday. That's the very low number of overs given the opposition lost only 6 wickets. Well, it may work better with bowlers fresh the next day, but Root may miss the next test.

    5) Bess did not bowl that poorly in the first test, but Root immediately dropped him and kept him out of the side in the two most turning tracks of this series. I don't think it will give confidence to any spinner.


    Root did win 3 tosses and allowed Eng the best conditions to bat, but that's very little to do with decisions.


    What do you all think? Results can still go against you, but some very poor decisions in picking teams.
    I don't think he has much say in selections. He has not been helped by consistent rotation as well.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    I don't think he has much say in selections. He has not been helped by consistent rotation as well.
    Not with rotation, but the captain should have a big say when it comes to playing XI.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  77. #77
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    Root, for all his faults, has been hamstrung by Ed Smith's presumptuous selection policies which are skewed heavily in favour of the white ball teams. I can't imagine Eoin Morgan accepting any of the malarkey that Smith and Giles have foisted upon Root.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    Root, for all his faults, has been hamstrung by Ed Smith's presumptuous selection policies which are skewed heavily in favour of the white ball teams. I can't imagine Eoin Morgan accepting any of the malarkey that Smith and Giles have foisted upon Root.
    I somehow get the feeling that they already wrote off this series. After winning the first test, they suddenly thought that they can do well, but it was too late with the rotation policy already in place.

    I would have liked to see Eng putting the fix 14-15 players who were the best suited for Indian conditions and sticking with them for 4 tests.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    I somehow get the feeling that they already wrote off this series. After winning the first test, they suddenly thought that they can do well, but it was too late with the rotation policy already in place.

    I would have liked to see Eng putting the fix 14-15 players who were the best suited for Indian conditions and sticking with them for 4 tests.
    Yes, Smith had written off the whole tour a couple of months before it started. He had planned these ludicrous rest periods last November when the likes of Buttler were playing meaningless T20 games in South Africa. A stronger captain than Joe Root (Hussain, Vaughan, Strauss) would never have allowed Smith to impose such restrictions while the white ball team is given preferential treatment.

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    Formulaic captaincy. After one assault on Leach by Pant in the first test, Root avoided as much as possible to expose him to Pant. So he used the pie chucker Bess and himself more. That was wrong. Leach was the best spinner. Should have been used more against Pant.


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