[VIDEOS] Naseem Shah - A failed experiment? - Page 3


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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacy with wisdom View Post
    Speaking of convinced, seems like Talha 2 has made a bunny out of your favourite player.
    I think the English captain might not agree with his cheerleader's views here.
    What you are exhibiting here is the classic process of how the overhype brigade learns to lower their expectations over time to cope with disappointment.

    So first Naseem was the most talented young bowler in the world who was going to be our top wicket- taker in this series and blow England away.

    Then when reality turned out to be different to fantasy, he is suddenly young and inexperienced (which he wasnít when he was predicted to be the top wicket-taker and blow England away) and the attention shifted to how he was not being helped by the coaching staff.

    Furthermore, in order to cope with the disappointment of him averaging 48 which is not something that the hype brigade anticipated, the saving grace is that he has dismissed Englandís captain twice.

    I have been here for a very, very long time. I have seen dozens of averaging players getting overhyped and I know how the hype brigade works.

    Like the reality of the Pakistan team, I also know the hype brigade like the back of my hand.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacy with wisdom View Post
    Lol, you undermined your own point really.
    He is dismissing a supposed fab 4 batsman inspite of his technical shortcomings which are very easy to rectify.
    Showcases that he has the ability to dismiss the top batsmen, isnt it?
    He is averaging 48 when the hype brigade told us that he will blow England away and be the top wicket-taker.

    An average bowler dismissing a top batsman twice is not a new or a strange phenomenon. Naseemís hype will be justified if his fans will not have to convince others that he is the real deal, because in that situation, his figures will speak for themselves.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Pakistan View Post
    How can a promising teenager, who has already won you 2 tests, be a failed experiment? He has taken some beauties so far.

    The only mistake from the PCB and Misbah has been that they have played him in every single test since his debut. His work load has to be managed more carefully for him to be more effective and bowl 90 + MPH more consistently.

    He has a lot to learn, but failed experiment? Can't believe people even considered it.
    ?

    How is naseem now misbah's fault?

    What workload are you on about?

    He played 1 test in australia, and after 20 days he played 2 test matches in december against Sri Lanka. One of which doesnt count as it rained the whole day. THan after a two months break he played a one off Test match aginst Bangaldesh.


    In this england series this is the first time he is playing 3 test matches with the second match being a wash out and no second innings to bowl at. Plus, this is august, the last test he played was in February.


    "Life is Pain"
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  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    What you are exhibiting here is the classic process of how the overhype brigade learns to lower their expectations over time to cope with disappointment.

    So first Naseem was the most talented young bowler in the world who was going to be our top wicket- taker in this series and blow England away.

    Then when reality turned out to be different to fantasy, he is suddenly young and inexperienced (which he wasnít when he was predicted to be the top wicket-taker and blow England away) and the attention shifted to how he was not being helped by the coaching staff.

    Furthermore, in order to cope with the disappointment of him averaging 48 which is not something that the hype brigade anticipated, the saving grace is that he has dismissed Englandís captain twice.

    I have been here for a very, very long time. I have seen dozens of averaging players getting overhyped and I know how the hype brigade works.

    Like the reality of the Pakistan team, I also know the hype brigade like the back of my hand.
    When you are adressing me, then adress only me and dont pigeon hole my views with what others say.
    Nowhere did I say that he will blow England away. I have enough knowhow to see that he doesn't have the same bowling sense as Amir had at this age, and he is still adjusting to his bowling action that was changed late last year.
    However, apart from that, as I have highlighted in another thread; he has tremendous potential to be an excellent bowler in the years to come, and more importantly, has great character.

    If anyone should be weary about overblown hyperbolic remarks coming to bite him, it is you. You have been calling him talha 2, pointing out attitude issues when there have been none, calling him more ordinary than a piece of white bread.
    So yeah, stop feeding words into my mouth just to prove that stale agenda of yours.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    ?

    How is naseem now misbah's fault?

    What workload are you on about?

    He played 1 test in australia, and after 20 days he played 2 test matches in december against Sri Lanka. One of which doesnt count as it rained the whole day. THan after a two months break he played a one off Test match aginst Bangaldesh.


    In this england series this is the first time he is playing 3 test matches with the second match being a wash out and no second innings to bowl at. Plus, this is august, the last test he played was in February.
    There is a reason Eng rested Anderson after the first test having played cricket after a long lay off. Naseem has a past of back injuries and should be taken care of more carefully, also one of our few 90 + mph bowlers who can't bowl at that speed if he has to turn up to the occasion every week on a tour.

    Naseem hadn't played cricket for almost 6 months and then straight away bowled a lot of overs during the three practice games in July. In August he got lucky in a way that the rain ruined the 2nd test otherwise he would have bowled 120+ overs in just three weeks time.

    Point remains that Pak management needs to handle Naseem better and not repeat what they did to Amir after he came back. Considering Naseem's past injuries and his inexperience the consequences could be worse if he breaks down. Now he will be playing T20's as well, which isn't much compared to test cricket, but means he is becoming a regular part of the team playing more and more cricket in a short period.
    Last edited by Prince of Pakistan; 21st August 2020 at 20:32.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

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  7. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Pakistan View Post
    There is a reason Eng rested Anderson after the first test having played cricket after a long lay off. Naseem has a past of back injuries and should be taken care of more carefully, also one of our few 90 + mph bowlers who can't bowl at that speed if he has to turn up to the occasion every week on a tour.

    Naseem hadn't played cricket for almost 6 months and then straight away bowled a lot of overs during the three practice games in July. In August he got lucky in a way that the rain ruined the 2nd test otherwise he would have bowled 120+ overs in just three weeks time.

    Point remains that Pak management needs to handle Naseem better and not repeat what they did to Amir after he came back. Considering Naseem's past injuries and his inexperience the consequences could be worse if he breaks down. Now he will be playing T20's as well, which isn't much compared to test cricket, but means he is becoming a regular part of the team playing more and more cricket in a short period.
    naseem played cricket in march. In july they had practise games.

    2-3 months rest period usually comes be it covid or no covid


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  8. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    naseem played cricket in march. In july they had practise games.

    2-3 months rest period usually comes be it covid or no covid
    It still could have been a lot of overs in a short time span after a long lay off. He is to become a regular in T20's as well now. In general we need to be more careful with a teenager who bowls 90+ MPH and has a past of a back injury. I would rather have that he missed one test than that he is out for 6-9 months.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  9. #168
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    Fors:

    Wicket was a beauty
    He has changed the position where his bowling arm finishes - side of hip now rather than between his legs as was pointed out by holding in 1st test.
    This is try to and get more swing but not seen a lot from him.

    Against:

    Erratic at times
    No game plan due to inexperience
    He has been uneconomical with 45 runs in 10 overs. England targetting him because they realise he's overhyped too?

  10. #169
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    I think he is an excellent talent and I think he is too aware of expectations. He just needs to relax and bowl, he will take wickets.

  11. #170
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    Yes he wasn't overly thrilled after the wicket. More so relieved which would indicate that he is aware he's not been up to par.

    He can still redeem himself by going after the tail

  12. #171
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    LOL what does people want him to do? Pick up 5fers every innings? He has bowled well with consistently good pace.On average he is already the fastest pacer in asia and only behind the likes of starc and few others it's not easy to bowl 145+ in tests.He is here to stay for long time.

  13. #172
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    Haha his average pace is 88-89 if that! That's 2-3 mph more than Shaheen...

    Please don't call him the fastest bowler in Asia as this is simply not true.

    Wahab Riaz is known for consistently bowling over 90 mph not to mention Bumrah and Yadav who can hit 150kmh

  14. #173
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    He shut his haters up by getting the wicket of Joe Root, popularly known as Joey.

    A talent of rare class and calibre.

    His pace is particularly impressive because it is raw.

  15. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    Haha his average pace is 88-89 if that! That's 2-3 mph more than Shaheen...

    Please don't call him the fastest bowler in Asia as this is simply not true.

    Wahab Riaz is known for consistently bowling over 90 mph not to mention Bumrah and Yadav who can hit 150kmh
    LOL bumrah and Yadav show me their average pace of the tests they have played recently.He has been the fastest pacer in Asia before this series his average pace was 141.5 or something like that all other Asian pavers were much slower than him.

  16. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He is averaging 48 when the hype brigade told us that he will blow England away and be the top wicket-taker.

    An average bowler dismissing a top batsman twice is not a new or a strange phenomenon. Naseem’s hype will be justified if his fans will not have to convince others that he is the real deal, because in that situation, his figures will speak for themselves.
    Why has Archer been so rubbish after everything you said about him being the best in the world?

    Your double standard and bias is ridiculous.

    Archer averages like 50 since the ashes. He’s been a burden on summer this whole summer and because of him the likes of Broad, Woakes and Curran sat on the bench. The selectors seem to have been fooled by him too.

    Vs Naseem who’s outbowled him in conditions that are new to him, has bowled faster and is clearly a lot more inexperienced. Even if he’s 20 that’s 5 years behind Archer.

    Stop this bias rubbish and start being fair.

  17. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    He shut his haters up by getting the wicket of Joe Root, popularly known as Joey.

    A talent of rare class and calibre.

    His pace is particularly impressive because it is raw.
    He shut the whole pakistani team up with his high economy rate too. Crawley can't get enough of him.

    But at least he got root out, makes him the best in the world 🤣

  18. #177
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    Other teams try out players in T20s first then transition them to ODI's and then tests. But we.....

  19. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum363 View Post
    Why has Archer been so rubbish after everything you said about him being the best in the world?

    Your double standard and bias is ridiculous.

    Archer averages like 50 since the ashes. He’s been a burden on summer this whole summer and because of him the likes of Broad, Woakes and Curran sat on the bench. The selectors seem to have been fooled by him too.

    Vs Naseem who’s outbowled him in conditions that are new to him, has bowled faster and is clearly a lot more inexperienced. Even if he’s 20 that’s 5 years behind Archer.

    Stop this bias rubbish and start being fair.
    I'm not a big fan of archer but...

    Archer vs Naseem wickets per innnings :

    Archer: 3, 1, did not bowl
    Naseem: 1, 1, 0 and now 1

    Naseem didn't outbowl Archer at all 😂

    If anything your blind bias has just been exposed LoL

  20. #179
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    I haven't seen any reverse swing from him. Maybe being unable to shine the ball is a problem

  21. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    I haven't seen any reverse swing from him. Maybe being unable to shine the ball is a problem
    Ball is not reversing in England. That is one reason for Naseem's lack of wickets.


  22. #181
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    From the hype heís getting on this thread it seemed like he took 5 wickets.

  23. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    Ball is not reversing in England. That is one reason for Naseem's lack of wickets.
    Naseem Shah in domestic cricket bowls with the new ball. Pakistani is missing the trick by not giving him the new ball where he is most effective and instead giving it to Abbass. Abbass can do a holding job in all his spells but getting the most out of the new ball is vital and Naseem swings, seams the ball away from the right hander. A trick missed by the team management

  24. #183
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    Amir is a better bowler than him.

    Naseem is looking flat.


    Bangladeshi Man

  25. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    He shut the whole pakistani team up with his high economy rate too. Crawley can't get enough of him.

    But at least he got root out, makes him the best in the world 🤣
    He is averaging 50+ with the ball, but his fans are doing victory laps because he bowled a great delivery to a quality batsman.

    Sums up the state of Pakistan cricket.

  26. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He is averaging 50+ with the ball, but his fans are doing victory laps because he bowled a great delivery to a quality batsman.

    Sums up the state of Pakistan cricket.
    And we had many of those today?


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  27. #186
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    Failed? Heís 17 for God sake!

  28. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum363 View Post
    Why has Archer been so rubbish after everything you said about him being the best in the world?

    Your double standard and bias is ridiculous.

    Archer averages like 50 since the ashes. He’s been a burden on summer this whole summer and because of him the likes of Broad, Woakes and Curran sat on the bench. The selectors seem to have been fooled by him too.

    Vs Naseem who’s outbowled him in conditions that are new to him, has bowled faster and is clearly a lot more inexperienced. Even if he’s 20 that’s 5 years behind Archer.

    Stop this bias rubbish and start being fair.
    Not this again.

    There is virtually no comparison between the two and what they have achieved so far.

    Archer is literally the only cricketer in history who was fast-tracked to international cricket to help his team win the World Cup, and he delivered.

    He also took 6 fers in the two Tests England won in the Ashes.

    Naseem has done nothing in his career so far except taking a 5 fer against a hapless batting lineup and talking about seeing ďfearĒ in batsmenís eyes.

    Archerís hype is justified because he has proved himself. Naseem has been hyped to the moon by deluded fans based on what their perception of talent is.

    Pakistan has the most deluded fans in the world. They overhype mediocre players and then are surprised when these mediocre players do not deliver.

  29. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He is averaging 50+ with the ball, but his fans are doing victory laps because he bowled a great delivery to a quality batsman.

    Sums up the state of Pakistan cricket.
    we have tried 5 new pace bowlers who lacked any domestic cricket experience.

    -Musa
    -Hasnain
    -Naseem
    -Shaheen
    -Rauf

    The only bowler who has performed well till now is Shaheen. The rest are still being tested while we lose matches because of them.

    Just because Shaheen turned out to be good without having any domestic experience doesnt mean your other 4 bowlers will have same success.

    Even Ehasan Adil, Usman Shinwari and Mohammad Irfan were selected without any experience. Once they got more experience in domestic cricekt did they get better.


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  30. #189
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    If a Pakistani player is fast-tracked with the hope of helping Pakistan win the World Cup and he actually delivers the cup, we will build him a statue right next to Minar-e-Pakistan.

    That is the difference between the mindset of England cricket and Pakistan cricket.

    We are masters of overhyping.

  31. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    we have tried 5 new pace bowlers who lacked any domestic cricket experience.

    -Musa
    -Hasnain
    -Naseem
    -Shaheen
    -Rauf

    The only bowler who has performed well till now is Shaheen. The rest are still being tested while we lose matches because of them.

    Just because Shaheen turned out to be good without having any domestic experience doesnt mean your other 4 bowlers will have same success.

    Even Ehasan Adil, Usman Shinwari and Mohammad Irfan were selected without any experience. Once they got more experience in domestic cricekt did they get better.
    I have been saying it for a while - Shaheen is the only good fast bowler that we currently have.

  32. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    I'm not a big fan of archer but...

    Archer vs Naseem wickets per innnings :

    Archer: 3, 1, did not bowl
    Naseem: 1, 1, 0 and now 1

    Naseem didn't outbowl Archer at all ��

    If anything your blind bias has just been exposed LoL
    Ahh congratulations, you can read a scorecard. Did you watch any of the matches? Archer was bowling rubbish, the majority of his wickets were tail Enders... and not English tail Enders, the Pakistan ones. Anderson was bowling faster then him and he had no swing or seam.

    Naseem was a different level to him though was very inconsistent and clearly lacked experience.

  33. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I have been saying it for a while - Shaheen is the only good fast bowler that we currently have.
    Not sure, if Naseem is getting flak than Shaheen with his extra experience deserves more Flak. He has not delivered as expected in this series.

  34. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Not this again.

    There is virtually no comparison between the two and what they have achieved so far.

    Archer is literally the only cricketer in history who was fast-tracked to international cricket to help his team win the World Cup, and he delivered.

    He also took 6 fers in the two Tests England won in the Ashes.

    Naseem has done nothing in his career so far except taking a 5 fer against a hapless batting lineup and talking about seeing “fear” in batsmen’s eyes.

    Archer’s hype is justified because he has proved himself. Naseem has been hyped to the moon by deluded fans based on what their perception of talent is.

    Pakistan has the most deluded fans in the world. They overhype mediocre players and then are surprised when these mediocre players do not deliver.
    That is such rubbish.

    England is the champion of importing players so it’s no surprise that they changed their rules for a player. They would do anything to get players.

    Archer was brilliant in the World Cup but he didn’t ‘win it’ for them. No single player did that with the exception of Ben Stokes.

    And yes, he was great in the Ashes. So because he’s performed in those two test matches, he remains the best in the world? No matter if his performances get worse and worse.

    Surely you’ve seen the likes of Mendis and even Hassan Ali, start with a bang, perform brilliantly and fade away. Now I know you’ll say oh he has a beautiful action etc but that’s your opinion.

    A lot of people think Naseems is better. Archer has done more than Naseem but they’re not being compared.

    You’re saying one is rubbish while the other is the best in the world. I’m saying they’re both talented young players. Archer has done more but he’s 5+ years older, part of a stronger team, has had more opportunities.

  35. #194
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    I blame the coaching staff for their incompetence tbh. Against Australia and now England, they have shown to be devoid of any ideas or planning on how to bowl to their batsmen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Not sure, if Naseem is getting flak than Shaheen with his extra experience deserves more Flak. He has not delivered as expected in this series.
    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    I blame the coaching staff for their incompetence tbh. Against Australia and now England, they have shown to be devoid of any ideas or planning on how to bowl to their batsmen.
    first you blame shaheen
    than you balme caoching staff
    now you will blame the captain

    but naseem cant be blamed.

    In international cricket everyone is liable for their own performance.


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  37. #196
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    Pakistan fans have zero patience

  38. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Failed? He’s 17 for God sake!
    People here expect him to take 20 wickets on his own lmao

  39. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Failed? Heís 17 for God sake!
    Neither Waqar was 17 when started and neither Naseem is 17 right now.


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  40. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahson8 View Post
    People here expect him to take 20 wickets on his own lmao
    Misbah said that Naseem can win a whole Test match on his own. So is it wrong to expect that?

  41. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    first you blame shaheen
    than you balme caoching staff
    now you will blame the captain

    but naseem cant be blamed.

    In international cricket everyone is liable for their own performance.
    With an inexperienced attack, the experienced coaching staff is liable to get blame.

  42. #201
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    He is Wahab Riaz 2.0.

    Can bowl a few magical delivery but more often than not bowls a lot of hit-me delivery. It was more prominent today given the runs he leaked.

  43. #202
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    Heís starting to remind me of a pace bowler called Yasir Ali who played many years ago, brought into the team at a young age because of hype about his pace which turned out to be 88/89mph and then he bowled line and length all day to take one beautiful wicket.

  44. #203
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    It takes a bit of experience and I am sure that two young bowlers will bowl better after few years. You have to bowl in a channel for a long period and both young pacers lack that. That allows batsmen to not feel any pressure. It will come with time. Very few bowlers bowl in channel consistently when they are 20 years old.


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  45. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum363 View Post
    Ahh congratulations, you can read a scorecard. Did you watch any of the matches? Archer was bowling rubbish, the majority of his wickets were tail Enders... and not English tail Enders, the Pakistan ones. Anderson was bowling faster then him and he had no swing or seam.

    Naseem was a different level to him though was very inconsistent and clearly lacked experience.
    Archer bowled rubbish? Ok but he still has taken more wickets than Naseem

    Naseem was inconsistent and clearly lacked experience? Ok thanks for confirming what we know and proving my point

  46. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    It takes a bit of experience and I am sure that two young bowlers will bowl better after few years. You have to bowl in a channel for a long period and both young pacers lack that. That allows batsmen to not feel any pressure. It will come with time. Very few bowlers bowl in channel consistently when they are 20 years old.
    Thatís the whole point of this thread. Wait until they come good before playing them! If he played first class games for a few years he would have learned how to deal with situations like today.

  47. #206
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    "The more overs he bowls under difficult conditions, the faster he will become a Test bowler; He does have the talent but this is a big learning process for him; The experience he gained from today where there wasn't much in the pitch and the wind was gusting, he will use that in the future to serve Pakistan"
    so even the team management knows that he is not ready for test cricket as of yet, thus he is not a test bowler.

    Than why play him in a crucial match when you know he isn't ready for the format

    should had played 4 pacers than instead of fawad


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    Itís not his fault that PAK Mgt. and fans hyped him to the moon. And, before that PCB sold him as a baby prodigy ........ yes, for a 16 years old kid, that hype was justified. I have my own assessment of Naseemís actual age, which I would like to keep personal.

    Still, I think PAK should persist with Naseem because there are not many options available & PAK domestics are not really full of promising fast bowlers to choose from. He can develop only through playing at highest level and this is the right age to do so.

  49. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    Archer bowled rubbish? Ok but he still has taken more wickets than Naseem

    Naseem was inconsistent and clearly lacked experience? Ok thanks for confirming what we know and proving my point
    Ah yes because the fact that Naseem got a rampant Pope on 62 in the first innings and got Root when he was set on 42, means nothing against the fact that Archer got the amazing wickets of Abbas, Yasir, Naseem and Abid Ali early in his innings. Yes, your knowledge of cricket is amazing, 4 is greater than 2.

  50. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum363 View Post
    Ah yes because the fact that Naseem got a rampant Pope on 62 in the first innings and got Root when he was set on 42, means nothing against the fact that Archer got the amazing wickets of Abbas, Yasir, Naseem and Abid Ali early in his innings. Yes, your knowledge of cricket is amazing, 4 is greater than 2.
    And how many tail enders did Naseem Shah rattle through?

    Please enlighten me with your amazing knowledge

  51. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    And how many tail enders did Naseem Shah rattle through?

    Please enlighten me with your amazing knowledge
    England's tail is pretty strong tbh.

  52. #211
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    This boy is only 17, you donít impress in Australia without having talent, he needs time and guidance, not criticism. This boy has mentality lurking around, he didnít go to his mumís funeral so he could stay with the team
    Last edited by Thephenom; 22nd August 2020 at 02:13.

  53. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thephenom View Post
    This boy is only 17, you donít impress in Australia without having talent, he needs time and guidance, not criticism. This boy has mentality lurking around, he didnít go to his mumís funeral so he could stay with the team
    According to Azhar he is 18.

  54. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thephenom View Post
    This boy is only 17, you donít impress in Australia without having talent, he needs time and guidance, not criticism. This boy has mentality lurking around, he didnít go to his mumís funeral so he could stay with the team
    Donít play if you donít want criticism.

    He can have all the time he wants in the nets perfecting the art.

    Enter the lionís den then prepare to be eaten

  55. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    It’s not his fault that PAK Mgt. and fans hyped him to the moon. And, before that PCB sold him as a baby prodigy ........ yes, for a 16 years old kid, that hype was justified. I have my own assessment of Naseem’s actual age, which I would like to keep personal.

    Still, I think PAK should persist with Naseem because there are not many options available & PAK domestics are not really full of promising fast bowlers to choose from. He can develop only through playing at highest level and this is the right age to do so.
    No thanks. I'd rather not persist with Naseem for another 8 years before he finally becomes developed enough. Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul just come into the squad,.I think at the moment they are definitely better pacers than Naseem and have experience.

  56. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    And how many tail enders did Naseem Shah rattle through?

    Please enlighten me with your amazing knowledge
    Again - very solid argument there. If one bowler gets tailenders but the other doesn’t, it means the first must be better.

    And ofcourse the English tailenders are the same level as Pakistan’s. Be honest, do you watch the games or have you checked some scorecards and came here to give your opinion?

  57. #216
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    Hate brigade at it again.

    What was Steyns figures when he first toured England?
    He is an investment that might or might not pay off and he is certainly not the reason Pakistan are losing.

    He will be persisted with.

  58. #217
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    Inshallah Naseem will do well, in particular limited overs format.

    As for Mamoon, instead of pointing out his hypocrisies, ask him for alternatives to Naseem. You won't get an answer.

  59. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    And how many tail enders did Naseem Shah rattle through?

    Please enlighten me with your amazing knowledge
    The same number as alternatives you have provided. You're just a hater, a true lover would criticise but also provide alternatives.

    So if Naseem is out, who would you replace him with? Enlighten us with your knowledge. 3..2..1..GO!

  60. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    That’s the whole point of this thread. Wait until they come good before playing them! If he played first class games for a few years he would have learned how to deal with situations like today.
    I am not sure if Pakistan has a good replacement. I think posters may be focusing on Naseem more due to over the top statements by management. I recall Misbah saying that Naseem can win games or series on his own. You don't make such a ridiculous statement for a newbie bowler. It will just put spotlight and add to pressure. You make such statements after few gun performance to give more confidence.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  61. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum363 View Post
    Again - very solid argument there. If one bowler gets tailenders but the other doesn’t, it means the first must be better.

    And ofcourse the English tailenders are the same level as Pakistan’s. Be honest, do you watch the games or have you checked some scorecards and came here to give your opinion?
    Lol you're never happy.

    You criticised Archer for taking tail end wickets but Naseem couldn't even get a tail ender out. Your brought tail end into the topic, not me.

    Archer has taken flack for not bowling 100 percent pace in the 1st test, but at the end of the day he took 3 wickets as opposed to Naseem's single wicket.

    The reality, whether you like it or not, whether you admit it or not, is that Naseem has underperformed so far.

  62. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurkishCricketFan View Post
    Hate brigade at it again.

    What was Steyns figures when he first toured England?
    He is an investment that might or might not pay off and he is certainly not the reason Pakistan are losing.

    He will be persisted with.
    Hate brigade? Blimey, take off those rose tinted glasses. Every international cricket player faces criticism when they don't perform.

    Why should Naseem be any different?

  63. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    Lol you're never happy.

    You criticised Archer for taking tail end wickets but Naseem couldn't even get a tail ender out. Your brought tail end into the topic, not me.

    Archer has taken flack for not bowling 100 percent pace in the 1st test, but at the end of the day he took 3 wickets as opposed to Naseem's single wicket.

    The reality, whether you like it or not, whether you admit it or not, is that Naseem has underperformed so far.
    Are you actually able to read my arguments and construct a proper response or do you just make up random things. I said that Naseem outperformed Archer, which you jumped on and said that noooo 4 > 2 so Archer definitely bowled better. I deconstructed that by patiently explaining how it’s not just about the number but the quality of wickets.

    There’s no doubt that Naseem has underperformed in terms of his abilities and potential. But the hate he’s getting is a bit ridiculous. Especially when you have Archer who has underperformed worse and he’s supposed to be the ‘best in the world’, has taken the place of players like Broad / Woakes / Curran vs Naseem who’s 17/20, playing his first couple of matches in England and is ahead of Sohail Khan and Wahab and Imran Khan...

  64. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    Hate brigade? Blimey, take off those rose tinted glasses. Every international cricket player faces criticism when they don't perform.

    Why should Naseem be any different?
    Criticism should be constructive.

    Tell us genius, what are our alternatives? Amir? Wahab? Wasim Akram?

  65. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Criticism should be constructive.

    Tell us genius, what are our alternatives? Amir? Wahab? Wasim Akram?
    Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul.

  66. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul.
    Whoever is on the bench, is always a hero in Pakistan cricket.

    I have watched Sohaib Maqsood, Haris Sohail etc get hyped beyond the moon and get ripped apart by the same people within a couple of months.

    Fawad Alam's bandwagon will suffer severe consequences very soon too.

  67. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Whoever is on the bench, is always a hero in Pakistan cricket.

    I have watched Sohaib Maqsood, Haris Sohail etc get hyped beyond the moon and get ripped apart by the same people within a couple of months.

    Fawad Alam's bandwagon will suffer severe consequences very soon too.
    They have good first class experience and have performed well recently. The process or selecting them is correct. Never good to pick a 17 year old kid with almost no first class experience. Only one of Naseem or Shaheen should play.

    Also, yes I remember Maqaood getting hyped. But it was fine to select him, he had done well in domestics for some time. You should always pick best domestic performers, best chance of success. Look at rizwan now
    Last edited by HappyWarsFan; 22nd August 2020 at 19:22.

  68. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    Hate brigade? Blimey, take off those rose tinted glasses. Every international cricket player faces criticism when they don't perform.

    Why should Naseem be any different?
    The level of criticism meted out by Pakistani “fans” towards their players is irrational. The perspective oscillates between players either being the next Malcom Marshall to being not fit to playing street cricket — often within the same innings.....
    Naseem is young and should be supported. If you don’t think he should have been selected, fine but blame the selectors not him. So much of the criticism seems to descend to the personal — I seldom see that from Englaish fans

  69. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul.
    Bilawal Bhatti or Faheem Ashraf ? Iím sure they could also have taken 3 wickets in 3 tests at an average of 55, with about 6 or 7 balls that looked threatening across the three tests so far - and being all rounders their batting is a bonus.

    And Faheem too can bowl an effort ball at 89 or 90mph, so we wonít miss anything on that front in terms of pace.

    Yes heís young , so too are Faheem and Bilawal - give them enough games and a proper run and they might develop into decent all rounders.

  70. #229
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    Fans need to chill out, Rome wasnít built in a day.

    This reminds me of Mohammed Asif on his first test match had no wickets and fans here were in crucifixion mode and regardless of his off field antics he became a genius.

    Iím not comparing Naseem to Asif in terms of ability but the point is give him time

  71. #230
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    Holding, who does know a thing or two about fast bowling, being complimentary about Naseem and Shaheen. But I guess a lot of PP posters know better....l

  72. #231
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    Bowled well this morning. Needs to keep working hard and IA things will go his way.

  73. #232
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    In 1974 I saw a 22y old in-slant (not inswing) bowler play for Pakistan against England. Took five wickets in the series @51 a piece. No more than medium pace. He had some high ranking relatives and was at Oxford.
    Based on the assessments of many who post on here, he would have been cast out forever....
    His name, yes that’s right ....Imran Khan....

  74. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul.
    Gul was definitely a better selection over Musa.

  75. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Bowled well this morning. Needs to keep working hard and IA things will go his way.
    Inshallah but my worry is looking at the scorecard that at some point opposition will be 600 + and we will still be saying Naseem, Shaheen and Abbas bowled well - back when I was a kid, bowling well meant fast bowlers ripping apart the oppositionís batting line up and regularly seeing the sight of stumps cart wheeling , but then that might be an old fashioned view of Ďgoodí bowling. These days it seems getting one or two past the edge of the bat per session means you are bowling Pretty well.
    Last edited by Majid Khan; 22nd August 2020 at 19:40.

  76. #235
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    Naseem will be heading to FC cricket after this series and the Pakistan strategy of getting youngsters to
    'learn on the job' will probably be consigned to the scrap heap for a while.

    The hype was fun but his rawness has been rightfully exposed.

  77. #236
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    @Bhaag_Viru_Bhaag - I remember we were having discussion regarding this prior to the series. Your opinion was if Pakistan can give chances to young seamers like Naseem and Shaheen, what is stopping India from picking likes of Mavi & Nagarkotti. Hope you got the answer now.

    Test cricket bachon ka khel nehi hai...neither its the arena where you learn your art. There is no substitute for experience and the reason why India waits patiently before pushing a player in international stage.

    Many players will show talent and spark in U19 cricket. But you throw them in test cricket and most often the result will be what Shaheen and Naseem is getting now (avg 51 and 55 respectively).
    Last edited by Rajdeep; 22nd August 2020 at 19:51.

  78. #237
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    I think Iíll take more notice of people like Michael Holding and heís very impressed with him!

  79. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majid Khan View Post
    Inshallah but my worry is looking at the scorecard that at some point opposition will be 600 + and we will still be saying Naseem, Shaheen and Abbas bowled well - back when I was a kid, bowling well meant fast bowlers ripping apart the oppositionís batting line up and regularly seeing the sight of stumps cart wheeling , but then that might be an old fashioned view of Ďgoodí bowling. These days it seems getting one or two past the edge of the bat per session means you are bowling Pretty well.
    I am not an Abbas fan. For me he offers too little for the pace he bowls, he hasn't bowled rubbish but as soon as the ball gets old he is not a wicket taking threat. Bowlers like Abbas are ten a penny in county cricket. Afridi for me has been the biggest disappointment, again hasn't bowled rubbish and looked threatening to left handers but has no idea how to get right handers out in this series. Naseem has lots of work hard ahead, the basics are there, needs to get the odd one to come in so that they are forced to play at balls outside off stump. The other basic fact is that we don't have any options outside these guys. The other guys are not better
    Last edited by Bewal Express; 22nd August 2020 at 19:57.

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    He is in the same league as Bhatti! A mediocre pacer who lacks any bite!

  81. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    He is in the same league as Bhatti! A mediocre pacer who lacks any bite!
    For everyone who kept talking about pace and how fast he is, this morning he has bowled around 83-86. Nothing special, just like his bowling.

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