[VIDEOS] Naseem Shah - A failed experiment? - Page 4


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  1. #241
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    I won't call him a failure. But it was wrong to bring him onto the international scene at the age of 16/17. He should have been asked to hone his skills in domestic tournaments till he was 20/21 at least. He looks lost sometimes, which is very natural for someone who is 16/17.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharmaji View Post
    I won't call him a failure. But it was wrong to bring him onto the international scene at the age of 16/17. He should have been asked to hone his skills in domestic tournaments till he was 20/21 at least. He looks lost sometimes, which is very natural for someone who is 16/17.
    In an ideal world I would say that unless you are a teenager who is exceptional in skillset for your age and belongs in a manís game like Sachin, Miandad, Wasim, or Saqlain when they started in their teens , then frankly you should be playing with kids in your own age group , ie. U19 level cricket and prove your credentials at that level first, and maybe then first class level.

  3. #243
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    A below average performance by the whole bowling attack and knives are out for the youngest member. If anything, he appeared to be more likely to take a wicket today than his senior partners, one of whom is declared a English wicket specialist and the other one who Naseem's detractors think is miles ahead of him.

    His performance has been uninspiring in this series, ill agree with that. But i would that put that down as his own failure. Hes 19, playing for the first time in SENA and has people like Waqar in the dressing room as their mentor. Hes obviously following the plan that has been given to him. and that plan seems to be bowling from wide of the crease, angle the bowl in from that angle, then attempt to make it move away off the pitch and catch an edge. That has literally been the only thing hes trying to do since the first test. Nothing else, zilch. No coming close to the stumps, no attempted yorkers. and most importantly no short/aggressive stuff from a bowler who can bowl at 90mph and has shown in SA (under 19s) and in Australia last year that he can bowl a mean express bouncer.

    You cant expect a absolute newbie to come into test cricket and have his own plan of attack. Hes obviously been provided that by the Bowling coach and then supported by the captain and senior bowlers on the field. And that plan seems to directed at somehow turning him into Abbas 2.0.

    My hunch is that he will grow leaps and bound under the right guidance. And Waqar has proven time and again that he's not fir for that role no matter how great a bowler he was in his hayday.


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  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharmaji View Post
    I won't call him a failure. But it was wrong to bring him onto the international scene at the age of 16/17. He should have been asked to hone his skills in domestic tournaments till he was 20/21 at least. He looks lost sometimes, which is very natural for someone who is 16/17.
    Agree. Could have waited for a couple of years. Canít expect a 17 year old to run through sides.

  5. #245
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    Interesting how young Naseem is taking all the heat, while the actual disappointment of Shaheen is left relatively unscathed.

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  7. #246
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    Still no alternatives from the haters.

    Don't feed the trolls, especially a user who has than 50 posts.

  8. #247
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    Waqar Younis had a tough first tour of Australia in 1989. What he did afterwards is history. This was Nasim Shah's second major tour against a number 1, 2 ranked side in the world. This ragra was necessary for his development. He now knows where he stands. He is not a finished article yet, he is still only 19-20 years old and his bowling muscles will only get stronger. He will now go back and work on things.

    Even Shami had a tough tour of England, Australia in 2011-12 and now look where he is. The fans need to be balanced and not go overboard with their wrist slitting.

    Shaheen Shah has more experience than Naseem, he should have done more, he looked even more innocuous compared to Naseem at times and in some ways you can tell he actually regressed on this tour where his swing, line length and bowling intelligence were all over the place. But again not to dissapointed as this tour and the lessons he will learn will be vital for his development going forward.

    For me the biggest dissapointment has been Abbass. He proved to be a completely one dimensional one trick pony who England countered beautifully and treated him like Zulfiqar Babar. If the batsmen are coming out of their crease to him, if they are content with defending against him and leaving deliveries outside the off stump, the onus is on Abbass to do something about it i.e. finding a way to add some pace to his bowling, bowling a yorker, finding and working on a heavy bouncer which Shaun Pollock with his limited pace utilized, being more innovative in his field placings.

    Yasir Shah was another major dissapointment for me and i think it is now clear that he is incapable of learning and developing his game any further. He was Pakistan's most experienced bowler and has played enough in SENA conditions to understand his limitations and the things he has to work on, he habitually lets the side down with his ineffective first innings, first days bowling which puts the other bowlers under even immense pressure, Shane Warne knew how to keep things tight and quite even if Day one was not offering much to him but Yasir just never learns. I think Pakistan are better off trying to groom Shadab in the long run as the test spinner.

  9. #248
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    Needs to play a full season of FC which starts in a month and shouldn't be played in the T20 series against England.

    As we know, Pakistani players rarely get a chance to play County cricket in England as not many perhaps think they're a viable option or just have pretty bad PR teams/representations.

    Naseem could learn a heck of a lot by playing a full county season in England especially the 4 day game.

    Also if he gets a chance to work on technical things with Ian Pont who can help him in becoming a few kph faster and get him over the 90mph range consistently.

    Whichever way it goes but he needs to be handled very carefully and effectively.

  10. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If a Pakistani player is fast-tracked with the hope of helping Pakistan win the World Cup and he actually delivers the cup, we will build him a statue right next to Minar-e-Pakistan.

    That is the difference between the mindset of England cricket and Pakistan cricket.

    We are masters of overhyping.
    Isnít that exactly what happened with Archer?

  11. #250
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    Amazing that rubbish like this gets 249 replies. Usually, this would be ridiculed and ignored . He is 17 and to deem him failed because he is not getting 5 wickets every innings just shows how poorly people here read the game. 7 matches he has picked 16 wickets with a 5 wicket haul already. He is still raw and needs to be backed for a year or two before deeming him a "failure". Even then, if he has a bad run, he should be sent to domestic to work for a couple of seasons but to call him a failure is embarrassingly silly. Get a grip folks!
    Last edited by MenInG; 23rd August 2020 at 09:33.


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  12. #251
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    He has bowled well in this test match without luck.He would have gotten 4-5 wickets if luck were with him.People can criticise him but he ain't going anywhere he is here to stay and will serve Pakistan for long time.

  13. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invincible Gujjar View Post
    He has bowled well in this test match without luck.He would have gotten 4-5 wickets if luck were with him.People can criticise him but he ain't going anywhere he is here to stay and will serve Pakistan for long time.
    Bowled lot of short balls without any pace.. no real aggression or body language. Looked tired and trundling at 132 kph in third and 4th spell. Sorry but really bad bowling from youngster in helpful bowling conditions in England. Needs to hone his art more but test match is not a place for training bowlers.
    Needs a full first class season of toil.

  14. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Isnít that exactly what happened with Archer?
    Archer won a WC and was the player for England in Ashes..... Naseem so far has won lots of heart (& broken some as well)

  15. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoshiarpurexpress View Post
    Bowled lot of short balls without any pace.. no real aggression or body language. Looked tired and trundling at 132 kph in third and 4th spell. Sorry but really bad bowling from youngster in helpful bowling conditions in England. Needs to hone his art more but test match is not a place for training bowlers.
    Needs a full first class season of toil.
    I don't which match you were watching even in his 27th over he was bowling 138ks consistently.In this series without a shadow of doubt he has been the fastest bowler.In the world he is already the third fastest pacer.

  16. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invincible Gujjar View Post
    I don't which match you were watching even in his 27th over he was bowling 138ks consistently.In this series without a shadow of doubt he has been the fastest bowler.In the world he is already the third fastest pacer.
    Archer bowled 92mph yesterday (148kph).

  17. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    Archer bowled 92mph yesterday (148kph).
    I m talking in terms of average pace.He has been the fastest in this series.

  18. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Archer won a WC and was the player for England in Ashes..... Naseem so far has won lots of heart (& broken some as well)
    I agree. I was just pointing out that Archer winning the world cup for England is exactly the situation that @Mamoon had set up where if a Pakistani bowler won the world cup we would build a statue of him, and implied that England in comparison wouldnít since they have a different mentality.

    Thatís a double standard - someone wins you the world cup, you hype them. Same happened with Archer (and even a tad overhyped)

  19. #258
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    Interesting stats, Naseemís average v Australia was 68 and now 55 against England - That would look pretty good if it was a batting average.

    And in four tests combined with Australia and England, Naseem Shah has taken a total of 4 wickets - one a test.

    If that was Mohammed Sami, you might at least have the consolation that he clocked at 95mph a few times and impressed with serious pace.

    Hopefully he will get better with time and experience but fact is based on the above heís clearly not fit for international cricket right now , as you do have to play teams other than Bangladesh and the weakest Sri Lankan team in decades.

    Is he a failed experiment ? 4 wickets in 4 tests at bowling average close to Sobers batting average , makes me a think the OP might have a point.

    If you disregard age for a minute, you canít hide from the facts - his performances here have been pretty ordinary.

    Yes heís 17, and has time on his side - agree , letís hope he gets better , but heís looked like a kid playing against men ( as have some of his senior team mates also, to be fair) and the stats confirm the same.

  20. #259
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    Oh my apologies , Naseemís average v England is even higher now, itís not 3 wickets at 55 as I mentioned above but now 3 wickets @ 69.

    Averaging 68 and 69 v Aus and Eng, and getting a 100 too - would have been great if these stats belonged to a young Pakistani batsman.

  21. #260
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    What’s more worrying is his pace has dropped also. Maybe overworked and affecting his form.
    Needs rest and some lower level experience.
    Bad captaincy from azhar to use 3 pacers and one spinner. Too much workload


  22. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    I agree. I was just pointing out that Archer winning the world cup for England is exactly the situation that @Mamoon had set up where if a Pakistani bowler won the world cup we would build a statue of him, and implied that England in comparison wouldnít since they have a different mentality.

    Thatís a double standard - someone wins you the world cup, you hype them. Same happened with Archer (and even a tad overhyped)
    Thatís the point.

    Archer deserves the hype because he has looked like a world class bowler from his first game, he immediately performed against big sides, and carries the aura of a binaries superstar.

    By no means has he looked like a bowler who is just a year old in international cricket.

    Naseemís hype is based on PCB lying about his age. He has played two series against top sides and he has failed miserably against both.

    In a top team, he would be nowhere near selection at this point. However, Pakistani fans are acting as if he is the second coming of Waqar and Steyn and were expecting him to blow England away and be the top wicket-taker.

    Judging by his statements such as I like to see fear in batsmenís eyes, if England take me lightly it will be their loss etc., it is clear that his head is in the clouds and he is a talker. However, he does not have the ability to walk the talk.

    Leave it to Pakistani fans to overhype mediocre players and do bhangra, but when these mediocre players fall flat on their faces, then they act surprised and make excuses.

    Now they will thunder about how Archer is older etc., but I can guarantee you that he will never be as good. He is not the bowler that he and his fans think.

  23. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitee786 View Post
    What’s more worrying is his pace has dropped also. Maybe overworked and affecting his form.
    Needs rest and some lower level experience.
    Bad captaincy from azhar to use 3 pacers and one spinner. Too much workload
    Guy bowled constantly around 85mph mark for most of the day.


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  24. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Guy bowled constantly around 85mph mark for most of the day.
    And thatís pretty ordinary pace for someone whoís contribution on this tour has been 1 wicket per test, and his USP for selection was that he offered the bowling some extreme pace.

    Heís bowled at Ajit Agarkar pace for the most of the game.

  25. #264
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    Why can't people accept that he underperformed?

    At the beginning of this test match I was told I was going to be eating humble pie which i gladly would have done.

    All 3 pitches have yeilded results for England so there is no excuse.

    It is the biggest cop out to state he is young and still learning. Well I'm sorry but i thought Pakistan came to win not practice!!

  26. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    Why can't people accept that he underperformed?

    At the beginning of this test match I was told I was going to be eating humble pie which i gladly would have done.

    All 3 pitches have yeilded results for England so there is no excuse.

    It is the biggest cop out to state he is young and still learning. Well I'm sorry but i thought Pakistan came to win not practice!!
    He wasnít young and inexperienced when they were predicting him to blow England away and be the highest wicket-taker.

    Naseem also did not consider himself young and inexperienced when he talked about seeing fear in batsmenís eyes and how he will hurt England if they take him lightly.

    Now his delusional fans will throw punches at Waqar and dump all the blame on his head. Eventually, they will realize that Naseem is a nothing bowler and then they will do bhangra over some other mediocre young fast bowler.

    The cycle continues.

  27. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by leatherface58 View Post
    Amazing that rubbish like this gets 249 replies. Usually, this would be ridiculed and ignored . He is 17 and to deem him failed because he is not getting 5 wickets every innings just shows how poorly people here read the game. 7 matches he has picked 16 wickets with a 5 wicket haul already. He is still raw and needs to be backed for a year or two before deeming him a "failure". Even then, if he has a bad run, he should be sent to domestic to work for a couple of seasons but to call him a failure is embarrassingly silly. Get a grip folks!
    The post suggested he was a failed experiment i.e. The decision to bring him in at 17 was a bad move.

    No one is saying he can't bowl or won't eventually come good.

    You plan your team to win. It is crystal clear that he has been unable to deliver in this test series.

    He is young. He is learning. He is developing are all silly excuses for bad management decision. If someone is not ready to deliver you don't pick him for the first 11 and especially not in a 3 man pace attack.

  28. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He wasnít young and inexperienced when they were predicting him to blow England away and be the highest wicket-taker.

    Naseem also did not consider himself young and inexperienced when he talked about seeing fear in batsmenís eyes and how he will hurt England if they take him lightly.

    Now his delusional fans will throw punches at Waqar and dump all the blame on his head. Eventually, they will realize that Naseem is a nothing bowler and then they will do bhangra over some other mediocre young fast bowler.

    The cycle continues.
    How long do we continue to use youngsters as an excuse? One only need to look at the discourse surrounding "young" in the top test playing nations and they will see thatbsilly excuses just dont fly if you want to make it to the top.

  29. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    @Bhaag_Viru_Bhaag - I remember we were having discussion regarding this prior to the series. Your opinion was if Pakistan can give chances to young seamers like Naseem and Shaheen, what is stopping India from picking likes of Mavi & Nagarkotti. Hope you got the answer now.

    Test cricket bachon ka khel nehi hai...neither its the arena where you learn your art. There is no substitute for experience and the reason why India waits patiently before pushing a player in international stage.

    Many players will show talent and spark in U19 cricket. But you throw them in test cricket and most often the result will be what Shaheen and Naseem is getting now (avg 51 and 55 respectively).
    So the series ends with Shaheen avg 52 and Naseem 69.33. Not sure if we (Indian team) still need to follow Pakistan and pick undercook cricketers from U19s

  30. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    How long do we continue to use youngsters as an excuse? One only need to look at the discourse surrounding "young" in the top test playing nations and they will see thatbsilly excuses just dont fly if you want to make it to the top.
    This age thing is just an excuse. When you are good you show your ability.

    Rabada was tearing up world class lineups at 20-21.

    The issue is that Naseem fans are in denial.

  31. #270
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    what an utter useless flop. looks like a wahab so far.

    shaheen is ok. but naseem? get rid of him. replace him with sameen gul.

  32. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoshiarpurexpress View Post
    Looked tired and trundling at 132 kph in third and 4th spell.
    Speeds in his last over (27th) were 142, 139, 139, 138, and two slower balls.

    That’s pretty much what his speeds were throughout the innings. Most balls between 138-142.

    Don’t think a drop in speed was the issue.

  33. #272
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    he can bowl just doesnt know where


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    Quote Originally Posted by Majid Khan View Post
    Interesting stats, Naseem’s average v Australia was 68 and now 55 against England - That would look pretty good if it was a batting average.

    And in four tests combined with Australia and England, Naseem Shah has taken a total of 4 wickets - one a test.

    If that was Mohammed Sami, you might at least have the consolation that he clocked at 95mph a few times and impressed with serious pace.

    Hopefully he will get better with time and experience but fact is based on the above he’s clearly not fit for international cricket right now , as you do have to play teams other than Bangladesh and the weakest Sri Lankan team in decades.

    Is he a failed experiment ? 4 wickets in 4 tests at bowling average close to Sobers batting average , makes me a think the OP might have a point.

    If you disregard age for a minute, you can’t hide from the facts - his performances here have been pretty ordinary.

    Yes he’s 17, and has time on his side - agree , let’s hope he gets better , but he’s looked like a kid playing against men ( as have some of his senior team mates also, to be fair) and the stats confirm the same.
    There's two points here and I want to preface them by saying Naseem with some technical tweaks has the potential to become a top bowler. However:

    1) How many teams in world cricket field two bowlers aged 20 and below in their Test attack ?

    This is NOT an argument for Wahab Riaz, Sohail Khan or Imran Khan but ideally you want two seasoned pros between age of 22-30, with one of Shaheen and Naseem.

    2) I don't understand why Pakistanis have such disregard for the idea of youngsters playing domestic cricket to hone their skills.

    Every skill in life is perfected through repetition. Regardless of our perception of the quality of Pak domestic cricket (improved with the new format), it's through playing full seasons of domestic cricket you develop the ability to bowl long spells, set up batsmen, adjust your bowling strategies to different conditions and learn from your peers.

    Naseem was excellent in last year's QEA Trophy as I stated earlier, however he only played a small sample of 4 matches. Why the rush to take him to Australia and England, and not let him play a full season of QEA first ? I certainly wouldn't have pressed him to make a Test debut after his mother died either for god's sake.

    IMO if you're playing Test cricket - your learning is close to completion. Test cricket is not a bloody Academy. Only in Pakistan we have these romantic delusions about teenagers (replete with faked ages) taking the world by storm. Not everyone is Wasim Akram !

  35. #274
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    How Archer is bowling right now, is exactly how Shah shouldve been bowling throughout this test series. JA doesnt have a legendary bowling coach to mentor him yet he knows what to do and the team management gives him a simple plan '' bowl as fast as you can and scare them. Wickets will come automatically"

    Before somebody comes in and tells us Shah is too short to do that, height isnt the only thing that matters when bowling a short delivery. He has shown in Australia that he is more than capable of bowling a decent bouncer


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  36. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunge101 View Post
    How Archer is bowling right now, is exactly how Shah shouldve been bowling throughout this test series. JA doesnt have a legendary bowling coach to mentor him yet he knows what to do and the team management gives him a simple plan '' bowl as fast as you can and scare them. Wickets will come automatically"

    Before somebody comes in and tells us Shah is too short to do that, height isnt the only thing that matters when bowling a short delivery. He has shown in Australia that he is more than capable of bowling a decent bouncer
    Archer certainly is causing problems with his pace.

    I dont remember any problems from Naseems spell.

  37. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunge101 View Post
    How Archer is bowling right now, is exactly how Shah shouldve been bowling throughout this test series. JA doesnt have a legendary bowling coach to mentor him yet he knows what to do and the team management gives him a simple plan '' bowl as fast as you can and scare them. Wickets will come automatically"

    Before somebody comes in and tells us Shah is too short to do that, height isnt the only thing that matters when bowling a short delivery. He has shown in Australia that he is more than capable of bowling a decent bouncer
    kind of agree, Waqar was an awesome bowler but i am not impressed the way he coaching these guys


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  38. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpachi View Post
    Archer certainly is causing problems with his pace.

    I dont remember any problems from Naseems spell.
    Archer's average speed is certainly not any quicker than Naseem's. Both would be around 88 mph. Archer has a better effort ball.

    The reason behind the difference in impact of the two players is down to their attitude. Archer is bowling with aggression, looking to hit the batsman and then trap them with a full delivery. Naseem was told to become Abbas 2.0. You cant expect a 19 year old to come in and have his own plan, Hes obviously doing what hes been told to do by our legendary bowling coach. Archer is bowling 2-3 overs at full throttle and then getting breaks. Shah was bowling 5 to 6 over spells and trying to hit that good length 6 balls out of 6.


    ''Asif is the scariest bowler I've faced. I deemed him unplayable.'' KP

  39. #278
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    Get archer under Waqar and Misbah's wings and tell him to do what they want him to. I assure you he will not perform any differently than Naseem. Its like trying to make a Broad 2.0 out of Archer.


    ''Asif is the scariest bowler I've faced. I deemed him unplayable.'' KP

  40. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunge101 View Post
    How Archer is bowling right now, is exactly how Shah shouldve been bowling throughout this test series. JA doesnt have a legendary bowling coach to mentor him yet he knows what to do and the team management gives him a simple plan '' bowl as fast as you can and scare them. Wickets will come automatically"

    Before somebody comes in and tells us Shah is too short to do that, height isnt the only thing that matters when bowling a short delivery. He has shown in Australia that he is more than capable of bowling a decent bouncer
    That's fine but who has the best average speed and who bowled the fastest speed all series ?

  41. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunge101 View Post
    Get archer under Waqar and Misbah's wings and tell him to do what they want him to. I assure you he will not perform any differently than Naseem. Its like trying to make a Broad 2.0 out of Archer.
    Archer and naseem havent been that good tbh

  42. #281
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    Biggest failed experiment ever.

  43. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Biggest failed experiment ever.
    He needs sometime in domestics. He looks very crude at the moment. Bowls too many hit me balls.

  44. #283
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    he will improve once he plays in domestic. He wasnt ready for international cricket yet


    Yesterday is the past.Tomorrow is the future.Today is a gift.That's why it's called the "present"

  45. #284
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    This naseem is just as average as talha ,khalil and abdur rauf they were discarded in no time.

    Don't know the persistence with this naseem shah he is no where near intl level .

  46. #285
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    Until Naseem gets proper coaching from a coach who knows what needs to be fixed I cannot say he is rubbish. Waqar doesn’t have any ability to teach others. PCB wasting money on 2 wanna be coaches.

  47. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Biggest failed experiment ever.
    Not really. Our management doesn’t know where to start in terms of coaching. Whatever our bowlers achieve it’s due to their own hard work with no support from Con artist Waqar.

  48. #287
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    Naseem should spend a few seasons playing English county

    Naseem Shah should play more first class cricket and improve before making an International comeback, this most agree on.

    Naseem has the basics, young, fast and spirited. But I worry in domestics he will be lost in the grind, churn and mediocrity of the set up. The system can slowly and gradually turn him into a trundler in domestic cricket, albeit a successful one on paper.

    County exposure can help him improve in a much better environment. Plus he will be among peers who have a better understanding of fitness, diet, discipline as well as access to top coaching infrastructure. I think two seasons of English county can really polish him.

  49. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    Naseem Shah should play more first class cricket and improve before making an International comeback, this most agree on.

    Naseem has the basics, young, fast and spirited. But I worry in domestics he will be lost in the grind, churn and mediocrity of the set up. The system can slowly and gradually turn him into a trundler in domestic cricket, albeit a successful one on paper.

    County exposure can help him improve in a much better environment. Plus he will be among peers who have a better understanding of fitness, diet, discipline as well as access to top coaching infrastructure. I think two seasons of English county can really polish him.
    Why should counties pick him though? He doesnít benefit them. They have better local bowlers to work with it.

  50. #289
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    Yet another thread on this. This is not the 70's, 80's, 90's or even early 2000 any more. You cannot just request the county to pick you, the counties have to demand you and you have to be world class enough for it. Even then counties are only interested in players for the T-20 format. What good has county cricket done for Abbass, it is not everything for everyone.

    You need a tough unforgiving first class structure where you really have to earn your wickets to be ready for international cricket

  51. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunge101 View Post
    Archer's average speed is certainly not any quicker than Naseem's. Both would be around 88 mph. Archer has a better effort ball.

    The reason behind the difference in impact of the two players is down to their attitude. Archer is bowling with aggression, looking to hit the batsman and then trap them with a full delivery. Naseem was told to become Abbas 2.0. You cant expect a 19 year old to come in and have his own plan, Hes obviously doing what hes been told to do by our legendary bowling coach. Archer is bowling 2-3 overs at full throttle and then getting breaks. Shah was bowling 5 to 6 over spells and trying to hit that good length 6 balls out of 6.
    Agree except the short spells part. Root has been widely criticized for bowling Archer to the ground and constantly giving him 7 to 10 over spells on a trot in every match

  52. #291
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    Such experiments seldom come off. When was the last time it came off? Amir can be called some what a successful teenage experiment before he blew it but he had much more skill than Nasim. Even his wicketless spells looked threatening

  53. #292
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    He is rubbish right now

    Club level bowler right now. I don't care where he goes but he shouldn't be play international cricket. I doubt with his decrease in pace, and lack of skills he will be effective anymore in domestic cricket.

  54. #293
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    He has regressed , he wasnt that bad when he came onto the scene. He could bowl a few jaffas here and there with a lot of pace.

    I dont want to poin fingers but is waqar younis devenomizong our bowlers?He hasnt learny any new tricks and lost the ones he had in his bag


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  55. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    Such experiments seldom come off. When was the last time it came off? Amir can be called some what a successful teenage experiment before he blew it but he had much more skill than Nasim. Even his wicketless spells looked threatening
    Naseem doesn't have 1% skill of Amir had in 2010.

  56. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    He is rubbish right now

    Club level bowler right now. I don't care where he goes but he shouldn't be play international cricket. I doubt with his decrease in pace, and lack of skills he will be effective anymore in domestic cricket.
    He would struggle in domestics. The only bowler who has looked good enough this season was Hasan Ali and he seemed in very good form.

    Naseem would have really struggled to make an impact even in domestics this season.

  57. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    He has regressed , he wasnt that bad when he came onto the scene. He could bowl a few jaffas here and there with a lot of pace.

    I dont want to poin fingers but is waqar younis devenomizong our bowlers?He hasnt learny any new tricks and lost the ones he had in his bag
    Waqar Younis is probably responsible for Naseem's shortened runup, which has taken away his best traits as a bowler. When he came with a longer runup, he'd get naturally more pace and with that pace would come a decent height for bounce, which he was used to all his life.

    At this pace, he doesn't get the same bounce, and so he has to adjust almost every aspect of his bowling, which is too much for a 17 year old. Waqar Younis is gone now, so Naseem needs to go back to his old runup because Waqar has not added any skillset to the current bowlers. No seam movement, no well-directed bouncers, no swing skills either.


    All I've seen Waqar Younis do was help Shaheen and Haris Rauf nail the yorkers and act as if he'd just saved Pakistan Cricket, but if someone disagrees, feel free to tell me what else he has done with our bowlers.

  58. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    He would struggle in domestics. The only bowler who has looked good enough this season was Hasan Ali and he seemed in very good form.

    Naseem would have really struggled to make an impact even in domestics this season.
    He did well in the 2019 season because our domestic batsmen are sitting ducks anything over 145kph but I just don't see it happening again with him bowling gentle fast medium pace

  59. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    Waqar Younis is probably responsible for Naseem's shortened runup, which has taken away his best traits as a bowler. When he came with a longer runup, he'd get naturally more pace and with that pace would come a decent height for bounce, which he was used to all his life.

    At this pace, he doesn't get the same bounce, and so he has to adjust almost every aspect of his bowling, which is too much for a 17 year old. Waqar Younis is gone now, so Naseem needs to go back to his old runup because Waqar has not added any skillset to the current bowlers. No seam movement, no well-directed bouncers, no swing skills either.


    All I've seen Waqar Younis do was help Shaheen and Haris Rauf nail the yorkers and act as if he'd just saved Pakistan Cricket, but if someone disagrees, feel free to tell me what else he has done with our bowlers.
    No wonder we have seen him overstepping in search of pace , never tweak with the run up.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  60. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    No wonder we have seen him overstepping in search of pace , never tweak with the run up.
    Exactly, never change what you are accustomed to.

    Had Naseem been on his old runup, he'd have to only develop his seam and swing skills as opposed to figuring out how to bowl with a new runup.

    This is basic cricket, so whoever told him to change his runup is clearly uneducated.

  61. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    Exactly, never change what you are accustomed to.

    Had Naseem been on his old runup, he'd have to only develop his seam and swing skills as opposed to figuring out how to bowl with a new runup.

    This is basic cricket, so whoever told him to change his runup is clearly uneducated.
    Waqar Younis for you in a nutshell, deserves to be fired

  62. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    No wonder we have seen him overstepping in search of pace , never tweak with the run up.
    What I think happened with the decision to shorten his runup was how he wasn't getting wickets in England, conditions where there is a lot to offer for fast bowlers.

    Waqar Younis probably thought that because of the one session (you should remember that session where Naseem was bowling low 130kph), Naseem should change his runup.

    The fact of the matter is that all Naseem had to do at the time was change his line/length, not his runup.

    I'd like to see if we can get a reason for this change in an interview, maybe just a hint to tell us why.

    That's my theory.

  63. #302
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    Need better bowling n fielding coaches

  64. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by naseem View Post
    Need better bowling n fielding coaches
    You need better bowlers first and foremost.

  65. #304
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    Please send this kid back to domestic. He needs to stay there till he becomes good enough to play international cricket.

  66. #305
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    Send Naseem back to domestic. And keep waqar younis far away from the team

  67. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    You need better bowlers first and foremost.
    Waqar as bowling coach? Even any Ranji team or 2nd division English county team has better bowling coach than Waqar and better head coach than Misbah. These guys don't know anything but boasting.
    Only in Pakistan unfit people like Misbah, Waqar get top jobs.

  68. #307
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    He was the fastest pacer in asia before this series but now he has lost pace and looks even more toothless.He was not a world beater before but he had the pace even in the psl he bowled most 145ks plus deliveries but now he has got nothing although I think he should be persisted with he will come good eventually

  69. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by sindhiboy View Post
    Send Naseem back to domestic. And keep waqar younis far away from the team
    This. Was criminal from Misbah to retain Naseem for the 2nd Test. He's mentally shot and has no idea how to bowl at this level.

    As for Waqar, I warned folks before his appointment that every time he's been appointed to a coaching role he's been a disaster. Seems to learn nothing between his stints and thinks simply being a former great entitles him to the job.

  70. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    As for Waqar, I warned folks before his appointment that every time he's been appointed to a coaching role he's been a disaster. Seems to learn nothing between his stints and thinks simply being a former great entitles him to the job.
    Where is the proof that Waqar Younis has destroyed Naseem Shah vs the more convincing argument that Naseem Shah never had it in the first place?


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  71. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Where is the proof that Waqar Younis has destroyed Naseem Shah vs the more convincing argument that Naseem Shah never had it in the first place?
    Its too early to say if he has it in him or not. He needs to go to domestic cricket and learn the art for 2/3 years.

  72. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Where is the proof that Waqar Younis has destroyed Naseem Shah vs the more convincing argument that Naseem Shah never had it in the first place?
    So where did those 10K’s go?

  73. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellipsism View Post
    So where did those 10K’s go?
    A natural loss. His body couldn't take bowling 40 overs test after test so had to slow down lest it breaks.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  74. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shafi View Post
    Even any Ranji team or 2nd division English county team has better bowling coach than Waqar and better head coach than Misbah. These guys don't know anything but boasting.
    Only in Pakistan unfit people like Misbah, Waqar get top jobs.
    Ehsan Mani opposed the idea of Mickey Arthur coaching Karachi Kings because of xyz reasons but was in favor of Misbah coaching Islamabad United as he would gain coaching experience in the process and would eventually benefit the national side. Such an irony and stupidity can only come from PCB and Pakistan.

  75. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Where is the proof that Waqar Younis has destroyed Naseem Shah vs the more convincing argument that Naseem Shah never had it in the first place?
    Pretty much what Pakhs has said, though much of the hype was around his pace. Now he's down on pace, his lack of control and knowhow of setting up a batsman is really exposed. And I hold Misbah and Waqar accountable for behaving like teenage fangirls and prematurely rushing him into Test cricket in the first place.

    My point was a more general one which's our lack of planning as a bowling unit. The top sides have multiple plans against each batsmen, and know how to adjust to different conditions to take 20 wickets. And Waqar, a multiple times failed bowling coach who never had great game awareness as a captain, must take responsibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    Its too early to say if he has it in him or not. He needs to go to domestic cricket and learn the art for 2/3 years.

  76. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    A natural loss. His body couldn't take bowling 40 overs test after test so had to slow down lest it breaks.
    You cant bring a youngster who has not even played 2/3 full seasons in domestic cricket to international cricket and then burn him by playing every test match you play.

    In any case he should have only played an odd match here and there in his early years just to gain experience. What is most troubling for Pakistan is that youngsters are just thrown into deep end of international cricket which is not a place to learn. Their skills should be horned for 3/4 years in full domestic seasons.

  77. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ucdkee View Post
    Ehsan Mani opposed the idea of Mickey Arthur coaching Karachi Kings because of xyz reasons but was in favor of Misbah coaching Islamabad United as he would gain coaching experience in the process and would eventually benefit the national side. Such an irony and stupidity can only come from PCB and Pakistan.
    This guy is totally unfit for the top job. Lack of any personality. Was Ik that dumb or fooled by Mani to get that big job is beyond my imagination?

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    Naseem is a sensational talent. He still is. Anyone who knows anything about bowling can attest to this. One year ago he had minor technical flaws in his delivery stride, hip alignment, and pivot at the crease which should have been tweaked, but instead of these tweaks taking place, Waqar Younis shortened his runup, causing him to lose pace and rhythm. He loses further pace when he tries to bowl line and length, going down to 135kph, but still can hit 142kph on this shortened runup if he doesnít focus on that. He still can make those tweaks, and increase his runup length- and he should.

    The real issue is technical mismanagement. I pray he gets the attention and advice he needs and deserves, so that one day when heís on top of the world, the people writing him off now will be haply to be proven wrong (and others donít really want to be proven wrong in the interest of seeing Pakistan fail, which is a sorry state of affairs). Bring in Ian Pont is what I say.
    Last edited by Thunderbolt14; 4th January 2021 at 17:58.

  79. #318
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    All the Naseem Shah threads at the top today

    Nothing on Shaheen Shah

    Nothing on Abbas

    I guess Naseem Shah has let down the whole nation with him Cummins+Bumrah+Anderson talent all in one.

  80. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Where is the proof that Waqar Younis has destroyed Naseem Shah vs the more convincing argument that Naseem Shah never had it in the first place?
    the kid bowled 14 no balls in two tests when he shortened his runup at the direction of WY, isnt that enough to suggest ??
    Last edited by PerfectionPersonified; 4th January 2021 at 18:31.


    Yesterday is the past.Tomorrow is the future.Today is a gift.That's why it's called the "present"

  81. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Where is the proof that Waqar Younis has destroyed Naseem Shah vs the more convincing argument that Naseem Shah never had it in the first place?
    the kid bowled 14 no balls in two test when he shortened his runup at the direction of WY, isnt that enough to suggest ??


    Yesterday is the past.Tomorrow is the future.Today is a gift.That's why it's called the "present"

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