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  1. #1
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    Yorkshire racism: Pakistan-born English cricketer Azeem Rafiq says racism left him close to suicide

    Yorkshire have been accused of being “institutionally racist” by Azeem Rafiq, with the former England Under-19s captain saying it left him close to taking his own life.

    Rafiq, 29, spent 10 seasons at Headingley in two spells before his release in 2018 and, in a wide-ranging interview, has said his aim now is to prevent other players from the same experience.

    Rafiq said: “I know how close I was to committing suicide during my time at Yorkshire. I was living my family’s dream as a professional cricketer, but inside I was dying. I was dreading going to work. I was in pain every day.

    “There were times I did things to try and fit in that, as a Muslim, I now look back on and regret. I’m not proud of it at all. But as soon as I stopped trying to fit in, I was an outsider. There were no coaches on the staff from a similar background who understood what it was like. Look at the facts and figures. Look at a squad photograph. Look at the coaches. How many non-white faces do you see?

    “Despite the ethnic diversity of the cities in Yorkshire, despite the love for the game from Asian communities, how many people from those backgrounds are making it into the first team? It’s obvious to anyone who cares that there’s a problem. Do I think there is institutional racism? It’s at its peak in my opinion. It’s worse than it’s ever been. My only motivation now is to prevent anyone else feeling the same pain.”

    Rafiq has also detailed his experiences in recent interviews with Wisden.com and The Cricket Badger Podcast and said he regrets not challenging comments made in the dressing room during his rise up the ranks; one time he did speak out, he claims his “life was made hell” as a result.

    Yorkshire, having declined to comment previously, issued a statement on Thursday. “The club has an equality and diversity committee, chaired by board member Hanif Malik. Hanif is in contact with Azeem about the allegations and will report back to the committee.”

    This response comes in the same week Ian Watmore began his role as the new chairman of the England and Wales Cricket Board with an admission that a lack of ethnic diversity on the governing body’s board – and across leadership positions in the sport generally – is “not acceptable”.

    Rafiq said: “When I first spoke about this subject, to Wisden.com, I didn’t mention the club by name. As a result, Yorkshire claimed I might not have been talking about them. So let me make it really clear: I am talking about Yorkshire.

    “I believe the club is institutionally racist and I don’t believe they are prepared to acknowledge the fact or willing to change.”

    Rafiq, who was born in Pakistan but moved to Barnsley as a child, came through the club’s academy and battled back to win a second contract in 2016 after being released two years earlier. His final season at Yorkshire in 2018 was struck by personal tragedy when his son was stillborn.

    Rafiq said: “I took my son straight from the hospital to the funeral. Nothing can be harder than that. Yorkshire told me they would look after me professionally and personally. But all I heard after that was a short email. I was told I was being released. I felt it was used against me, really. The way it was done was horrible. It killed me for a while.

    “I lost all trust in anything and anyone. I’d spent the best part of a decade around those people. I thought they had my best interests at heart. I lost faith in humanity.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ionally-racist
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 3rd September 2020 at 22:29.


    "Life is Pain"
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  2. #2
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    Feel bad for him that he says he had to do stuff to fit in.

    Is yorkshire a place where racism exists alot? Or was it just the team


    "Life is Pain"
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    I've read the full interview with Azeem Rafiq and the stories he describes are clear cut racism. They are malicious and no way can be described as banter or mickey taking.

    Yorkshire is my county, and I'm thoroughly ashamed of Yorkshire CCC today. The only person who comes out of Rafiq's story well is Joe Root.

    Rafiq said his Yorkshire captain, who went unnamed, was openly racist though the other lads found him funny. I believe he's referring to Andrew Gale.

    He describes how he was walking onto the field with Rana Naved, Adil Rashid, and Ajmal Shehzad - and a player, a PLAYER - comes up to them and says "there's too many of your lot. We need to have a word about that."

    Yorkshire CCC did not investigate other incidents Rafiq mentions in the interview which I implore PPers to read.

    And how did Yorkshire CCC give him his release ? A short email soon after his son was delivered stillborn. There must be a thorough investigation and proper changes at Board level.

  4. #4
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    Damn that's rough. Hope he is ok.
    Unfortunately most people have to develop thick skin to survive overseas hey.

    People are racist everywhere to be honest. If not racist it's usually bigotry. India are no exception and pakistan is no different. You guys look down upon Afghanis for example or people in general who have different religious beliefs.

    You are telling me an English kid who plays in pakistan won't be racially abused? It's all the same.

    When you are a minority, you will get picked on. It's up to you to fight back and stand up for yourself.
    Last edited by tyron_woodley; 3rd September 2020 at 20:43.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Damn that's rough. Hope he is ok.
    Unfortunately most people have to develop thick skin to survive overseas hey.

    People are racist everywhere to be honest. If not racist it's usually bigotry. India are no exception and pakistan is no different. You guys look down upon Afghanis for example or people in general who have different religious beliefs.

    You are telling me an English kid who plays in pakistan won't be racially abused? It's all the same.

    When you are a minority, you will get picked on. It's up to you to fight back and stand up for yourself.
    poor post.

    Stop generalizing racism. There are people who are patheic and act racists, dont make it acceptable by saying that in so and so culture you treat him the same if you were in majority and the other was in minority.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    Feel bad for him that he says he had to do stuff to fit in.

    Is yorkshire a place where racism exists alot? Or was it just the team
    No. I've never experienced it myself thankfully. Although there's been race riots in the past and the major cities do tend to be fairly segregated on ethnic lines, ordinary folks generally get on well.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Damn that's rough. Hope he is ok.
    Unfortunately most people have to develop thick skin to survive overseas hey.

    People are racist everywhere to be honest. If not racist it's usually bigotry. India are no exception and pakistan is no different. You guys look down upon Afghanis for example or people in general who have different religious beliefs.

    You are telling me an English kid who plays in pakistan won't be racially abused? It's all the same.

    When you are a minority, you will get picked on. It's up to you to fight back and stand up for yourself.
    And this is part of fighting back
    When he comes out with his story and hopefully something happens that's part of fighting back

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    I've read the full interview with Azeem Rafiq and the stories he describes are clear cut racism. They are malicious and no way can be described as banter or mickey taking.

    Yorkshire is my county, and I'm thoroughly ashamed of Yorkshire CCC today. The only person who comes out of Rafiq's story well is Joe Root.

    Rafiq said his Yorkshire captain, who went unnamed, was openly racist though the other lads found him funny. I believe he's referring to Andrew Gale.

    He describes how he was walking onto the field with Rana Naved, Adil Rashid, and Ajmal Shehzad - and a player, a PLAYER - comes up to them and says "there's too many of your lot. We need to have a word about that."

    Yorkshire CCC did not investigate other incidents Rafiq mentions in the interview which I implore PPers to read.

    And how did Yorkshire CCC give him his release ? A short email soon after his son was delivered stillborn. There must be a thorough investigation and proper changes at Board level.
    Too many of your lot

    Jokes aside, Rashid and Ajmal both play for the county right, how come they haven't said anything ?


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    Feel bad for him that he says he had to do stuff to fit in.

    Is yorkshire a place where racism exists alot? Or was it just the team
    I believe Ajmal Shahzad was the first ever brown guy to represent them in 2007. That says a lot about their culture and selection process

  10. #10
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    Where is Mamoon now claiming Asians use the race card to their advantage? A man saying he was close to suicide is using it for what advantage?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Too many of your lot

    Jokes aside, Rashid and Ajmal both play for the county right, how come they haven't said anything ?
    Lol the funny thing is these Asian lads have over the years been a vital part of the bowling attack.

    People weren't queuing up to see Anthony McGrath's 70mph thunderbolts.

    As for the other lads, I don't know. Rashid is on a central contract so could be limited in what he can say publicly, but I'd be interested to hear his experiences.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Too many of your lot

    Jokes aside, Rashid and Ajmal both play for the county right, how come they haven't said anything ?
    Depends on your mentality. I grew up in a mainly white environment where you came into contact with racist comments fairly often, this was before racism was really considered a bad thing, you had racist comedians like Jim Davidson and Bernard Manning appearing on tv. Back then you just gave as good as you got and got on with it.

    Probably similar to a lot of black footballers who were quiet for so long, and now they are all piping up since the BLM movement went mainstream. Before that they would have been labelled troublemakers and accused of damaging the dressing room atmosphere.


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    STATEMENT BY ROGER HUTTON, CHAIR OF YORKSHIRE COUNTY CRICKET CLUB

    Any allegation of this nature is hugely concerning to everyone from the board to the playing staff here, and we take the reports very seriously.

    On Monday this week the club took the decision to launch a formal investigation into the specific allegations made by Azeem Rafiq, and a wider review of YCCC’s policies and culture. We are in the process of finalising the structure of this investigation and we will be approaching impartial external parties to be part of the review to ensure complete transparency. Further announcements will be made to detail this process in the coming days.

    We fully acknowledge that just as in many walks of life, sport, including cricket and Yorkshire as a club, must do better to fully promote a culture of zero tolerance to racism or any form of prejudice. We accepted a long time ago that change was needed at Headingley to improve diversity, especially in terms of racial inclusivity. Since 2014 we’ve prioritised community engagement with numerous groups right across the county, and across many cultures and ethnicities. While as an organisation we’ve made real efforts to that end, we are not perfect and it’s a work in progress.

    As a player and former captain, Azeem was extremely highly respected and well regarded by the club and its supporters alike. Azeem was a gifted bowler and a respected leader of our team, and that was why he became the first British South Asian captain of the Yorkshire T20 side, and the youngest ever captain of the team.

    We have tried to make contact with Azeem this week to discuss his experiences, and will make further contact in the weeks ahead as its important that we hear his grievances in as much detail as possible.

    The future direction of our organisation’s culture will be best-shaped with the understanding and the input of players, staff and supporters from all minorities and genders, and we will continue this process with the formal investigation that will start in a matter of days and be conducted thoroughly, impartially, and with urgency.

    https://yorkshireccc.com/news/view/8...y-cricket-club


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  14. #14
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    If it was so bad why did he stay at the club for 10 years?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    If it was so bad why did he stay at the club for 10 years?
    Why did Sterling play so many years at Liverpool and Man City before suddenly calling out racists and lack of opportunities for black people in football after the BLM movement took hold?


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  16. #16
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    I hope he names names. It's not good enough to just allege. He said he was called a **** by a player, that player needs to be hauled over the coals. But I have also seen Desis allege racism in schools, when I know its rubbish because I was an eye witness to the incidents.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Why did Sterling play so many years at Liverpool and Man City before suddenly calling out racists and lack of opportunities for black people in football after the BLM movement took hold?
    Idk I don't watch football. It just seems odd that someone 'dreaded going to work', but decided to go for 10 years straight.

  18. #18
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    Suicide? That's too much.

    Racism needs to be addressed though.



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    He has been treated disgustingly. I hope he names these individuals and this is taken further. Poor guy probably didn't wanna speak up earlier because he thought nothing would get done.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    Idk I don't watch football. It just seems odd that someone 'dreaded going to work', but decided to go for 10 years straight.
    It's more common than you realize. My dad spent his whole 40 plus year career working somewhere he knew he would face racist abuse and put downs. He kept working there because he knew he had bills and responsibilities.

    It's easy to say why not complain when you are there but when you are made to feel like an outsider, there is always the fear that no one will believe you and it will have been for nothing. So you either keep your head down and accept the abuse or self-deprecate and try to "fit in".


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    If it was so bad why did he stay at the club for 10 years?
    Would he have made the allegations if he still had a career? This is where this whole thing becomes very complex.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka81 View Post
    It's more common than you realize. My dad spent his whole 40 plus year career working somewhere he knew he would face racist abuse and put downs. He kept working there because he knew he had bills and responsibilities.

    It's easy to say why not complain when you are there but when you are made to feel like an outsider, there is always the fear that no one will believe you and it will have been for nothing. So you either keep your head down and accept the abuse or self-deprecate and try to "fit in".
    Desi players will to some extent always feel outsiders, as most cricket clubs have a deeply embedded drinking culture and many of the Desis don't drink.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Desi players will to some extent always feel outsiders, as most cricket clubs have a deeply embedded drinking culture and many of the Desis don't drink.
    Players may drink or choose not to for personal, religious or cultural reasons but an employer has a duty to ensure their employees are not being discriminated against because of this. It looks like Yorkshire CCC have failed in their duty.

    Even the cricket club I played for growing up would discipline any player that was caught being racist to anyone and I grew up in a part of Scotland where racism was very prevalent at the time.

  24. #24
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    He may not be the only one that faced this. I remember Tendulkar not having a good time with the club. That was some 25 years ago. Perhaps for the same reasons?

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    These two incidents are also from Rafiq's interview. Rafiq recalled how a Muslim boy at a county match had a glass of beer thrown in his face by a supporter.

    When the story got back to the players, the dressing room howled with laughter. Yorkshire CCC gave the boy a jumper, but didn't investigate further.

    Another example he mentions is how at a county game in Scarborough a player's grandfather repeatedly barracked the "P*ki" players. The ECB and local police replied to the complaint, Yorkshire CCC didn't.

    Now encouraging the reaction I'm seeing online is mainly of locals threatening to tear up their Yorkshire CCC memberships if this issue is not dealt with. Yorkshire CCC will get hit financially also from sponsors.

  26. #26
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    When I googled it I got an article from
    2004 about racism in YCC , I mean it has never been solved and that incident was discussed in the parliament, so what are they expecting now?
    Last edited by JaDed; 4th September 2020 at 00:45.

  27. #27
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    There is a bigger problem in society, which recently in last ten has become bad again in the UK.

    Yorkshire has had always had this problem and it has been swept under the carpet.
    If you look at the bias in some media personalities there problem is bigger and more deep rooted.

    This is institutional in the county circuit and the media. Look at Asian players treatment in the England over the last 30 years, compared to their peers. By now the stats should the difference and chances and opportunities.

    The truth is its not full on racism but more stealthy racism.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    Idk I don't watch football. It just seems odd that someone 'dreaded going to work', but decided to go for 10 years straight.
    It’s not odd at all. People need to make a living, they can’t just quit their job whenever they want. It’s unfortunate but a lot of people endure abusive workplaces because they are afraid of losing their job and not finding a new one.

  29. #29
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    Racism is common in cricket in England. Specially in club cricket our team mainly asian even experienced it in school cricket while playing other teams.

  30. #30
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    While this may not be an example of clear racism, it is pretty disrespectful to just “rename” someone. This is not the same as giving someone a nickname. Depends on the context but stuff like this can be pretty dehumanizing.
    Last edited by The Viper; 4th September 2020 at 01:16.

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    We desis should be last of the last people to debate regarding racism reforms.

  32. #32
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    ECB statement on the racist abuse that Azeem Rafiq experienced

    “We are deeply troubled to hear of Azeem Rafiq’s experiences and recognise the courage it has taken for him to speak out.

    “The ECB welcomes Yorkshire County Cricket Club’s commitment to thoroughly and urgently investigate this case and the wider review of club policies and culture. We will follow these closely and are in contact with the club and with Azeem. We will consider any further ECB steps which may be appropriate.

    “Azeem’s story is similar to some of the experiences we have heard about during the Black Lives Matter movement and demonstrates how much work is needed across the game, sport and society as a whole to eradicate racism.

    “The ECB is opposed to discrimination of any form and remains committed to making the changes needed to make cricket a game for everyone.’’

  33. #33
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    So disappointing after Tendulkar played for Yorks 28 years ago, and Leeds-Bradford being so multicultural.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka81 View Post
    Players may drink or choose not to for personal, religious or cultural reasons but an employer has a duty to ensure their employees are not being discriminated against because of this. It looks like Yorkshire CCC have failed in their duty.

    Even the cricket club I played for growing up would discipline any player that was caught being racist to anyone and I grew up in a part of Scotland where racism was very prevalent at the time.
    I am not disagreeing but he was talking about being an outsider, and that has nothing to do with racism. The other problem is that in this environment white players prefer to be with other white players as one wrong word could end your career. They rather just stay away from any players that could perceive racism or any sort of prejudice.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    So disappointing after Tendulkar played for Yorks 28 years ago, and Leeds-Bradford being so multicultural.
    ??
    from 2004
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ricket.comment

  36. #36
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    Well to be honest cricket in general in England is a upper class sport and the higher you get in the ladder the more apparent it is so these allegations are not surprising, if you look at the current test team 8-9 players in the side are former private school educated guys.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    I am not disagreeing but he was talking about being an outsider, and that has nothing to do with racism. The other problem is that in this environment white players prefer to be with other white players as one wrong word could end your career. They rather just stay away from any players that could perceive racism or any sort of prejudice.
    Yes but cricket is a team environment sport, you have to build a strong group relationship, commitment etc

  38. #38
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    Having lived in 11 different countries and 12 cities in my life..the only experience of explicit and in your face racism I have faced was in Yorkshire when I was doing my A Levels in Leeds. So I am not a bit surprised by this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asadee View Post
    Having lived in 11 different countries and 12 cities in my life..the only experience of explicit and in your face racism I have faced was in Yorkshire when I was doing my A Levels in Leeds. So I am not a bit surprised by this.
    Which was the least among foreign countries?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manunited18 View Post
    Yes but cricket is a team environment sport, you have to build a strong group relationship, commitment etc
    That's what should happen but in reality people gravitate towards people that are like themselves.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    Which was the least among foreign countries?
    Definitely Home Sweet Home Canada!

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    Going to wait until the proper investigation before I say anything. There's a history of minority players in sports lying about hate incidents.

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    Why did he continue to try to fit in? Why did he not relocate and change his club? One must continue to make changes in life for the betterment. No place is perfect. Sure, questions must he asked of Yorkshire CC, but questions must also be asked of Azeem.
    Last edited by gazza619; 4th September 2020 at 05:48.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    Why did he continue to try to fit in? Why did he not relocate and change his club? One must continue to make changes in life for the betterment. No place is perfect. Sure, questions must he asked of Yorkshire CC, but questions must also be asked of Azeem.
    I am not a big fan of my job for very different reasons, it is hard to just leave. People have their reasons like I do.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by UP View Post
    We desis should be last of the last people to debate regarding racism reforms.
    Yes, lets self hate and let potential racism slide under the carpet. This is the type of Asians that bring the whole community down.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    Going to wait until the proper investigation before I say anything. There's a history of minority players in sports lying about hate incidents.
    Please quote some recent lying from minority players about sych matter. I am interested.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    Going to wait until the proper investigation before I say anything. There's a history of minority players in sports lying about hate incidents.
    Yorkshire has a history of it..if you google, it would be surprising if it was all of a sudden..

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manunited18 View Post
    Well to be honest cricket in general in England is a upper class sport and the higher you get in the ladder the more apparent it is so these allegations are not surprising, if you look at the current test team 8-9 players in the side are former private school educated guys.
    same in india too. It is an elitist sport.

    In Australia it's a bit more diverse but yes if you have the right connections through your parents etc anything is possible even if you are an average player.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by asadee View Post
    Definitely Home Sweet Home Canada!
    lol racism is rife in hockey leagues. Desi Canadians live in their little bubble in the GTA and other metro areas. You'll get a different experience when you're sharing a locker room with the Logan's and Austin's of the world.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    So disappointing after Tendulkar played for Yorks 28 years ago, and Leeds-Bradford being so multicultural.
    Means nothing, I think Zayn Malik spoke about the race riots in Bradford he experienced as a mixed kid.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    If it was so bad why did he stay at the club for 10 years?
    Typical victim blaming . You'll probably be that guy asking why a woman came forward with rape allegations years after the incident.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    Please quote some recent lying from minority players about sych matter. I am interested.
    Bubba Wallace recently in NASCAR. LeBron James alleged that there was a hate crime committed against him (N word painted on the gate to his home), but there is no evidence of the crime ever happening. Not sports but still relevant, American actor Jussie Smollet elleged he was attacked by racist Trump supporters but that ended up being a hoax. It's entirely possible Azeem is lying, we shouldn't blindly believe anybody.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    Typical victim blaming . You'll probably be that guy asking why a woman came forward with rape allegations years after the incident.
    I never blamed Azeem of doing anything, just simply asked a question. Either he's lying, exaggerating greatly, or weak/dumb for not standing up for himself/changing clubs. It's unusual for someone to willingly stay in the same environment for 10 years where their life is unbearable and they ponder suicide.

    We should all question when people come out as victims of crimes years, and sometimes even decades after the alleged incident, especially when it is against someone who is now in a position of power. However everybody has a right to a free trial. If they can provide evidence showing that the person in question is guilty, good on them. If they can't, their likely lying, just looking to slander and get their 15 minutes of fame. don't expect me to label someone a rapist without any evidence. Innocent until proven guilty.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    I believe Ajmal Shahzad was the first ever brown guy to represent them in 2007. That says a lot about their culture and selection process
    Yorkshire? That was SRT I think. Oh you mean as a local? Ok.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Damn that's rough. Hope he is ok.
    Unfortunately most people have to develop thick skin to survive overseas hey.

    People are racist everywhere to be honest. If not racist it's usually bigotry. India are no exception and pakistan is no different. You guys look down upon Afghanis for example or people in general who have different religious beliefs.

    You are telling me an English kid who plays in pakistan won't be racially abused? It's all the same.

    When you are a minority, you will get picked on. It's up to you to fight back and stand up for yourself.
    You are probably too young to really understand a complex issue like racism. Yours is a typical response of someone who has been fortunate enough not to have been subjected to racism and/or has very superficial knowledge of the subject.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    Typical victim blaming . You'll probably be that guy asking why a woman came forward with rape allegations years after the incident.
    This. Posts,like the one you quoted, make me feel like most Pakistanis should not even be allowed to comment on issues like racism and sexual abuse. With limited understanding of these subjects, it's better that they keep quiet instead of saying dumb things like these. So frustrating!

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    Means nothing, I think Zayn Malik spoke about the race riots in Bradford he experienced as a mixed kid.
    It means something as it was the first step toward a multicultural YCCC side.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Where is Mamoon now claiming Asians use the race card to their advantage? A man saying he was close to suicide is using it for what advantage?
    If you are looking for sympathy you should look in another direction.

    He is yet another Asian cricketer whinging about racism after failing to make a mark because he was not good enough.

    This Azeem guy was touted as a future England player once upon a time, but he failed to make the step because he didn’t prove to be good enough or didn’t work hard enough. Now of course he is going to blame racism.

    If this guy would have been good enough and would have been an England star, he wouldn’t be complaining. It is that obvious.

    Besides, anyone who is sympathizing with him needs to look at this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...banned-twitter

    When he was dropped from the U-19 team in 2010, he called the U-19 coach a “useless w*nker”.

    That is how big a loser he is and was. Always trying to find a way to blame others instead of taking responsibility for the fact that he was not performing on the pitch.

    People like him will always look for reasons to blame others. First, ECB was incompetent, second the U-19 coach was a useless w*nker and third Yorkshire CCC is the home of racism all because this guy turned out to be a rubbish cricketer.

    ECB actually let him off easily by fining him for £500 and banning him for a month. He should have been booted out for good because this type of behavior and attitude are not acceptable.

    Adil Rashid has been at Yorkshire CCC since 2006. He has basically grown up in the environment this failure is talking about. But yet, you will not see him whinge about racism.

    Simply because he is actually a good cricketer who let his skill with the ball do the talking and had no reason to blame racism because he could hold his own as a cricketer. Today, he is England’s premier spinner in Limited Overs cricket while this guy is a complete nobody.

    This story of him walking alongside Rashid and Ajmal Shahzad. You would never have heard it from Rashid. Why? Because he doesn’t need it; he is secure and successful.

    But there is a good chance Ajmal Shahzad will latch onto it and claim his two minute of fame because like Rafiq, he is also a failure who couldn’t cut it in international cricket. However, I heard he is a coach for ECB now, so perhaps will keep it quiet to save his job.

    Rafiq had everything going for him 10 years back. Captained Yorkshire CCC T20 side and became the youngest ever to do so. So how come such a racist club didn’t have a problem with making Rafiq captain?

    He was also handed the England U-19 captaincy but once he stopped performing and got rightfully dropped, he labeled ECB incompetent. Where was this incompetence when he was made captain?

    Another racism story that has been gulped up by gullible folks who have no capacity to look at the bigger picture. This is nothing new.

    Does racism exist in English cricket? Of course. It exists everywhere. Do people use racism to deflect their own failures? Sadly, it happens quite frequently as well. This is no different.

  59. #59
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    Funny how the Guardian article carefully omitted the part that he was given the opportunity to become Yorkshire CCC’s youngest ever T20 captain when he stepped in for a march against Durham in 2012.

    Why? Because it clearly doesn’t go with the theme of the article and doesn’t fit the narrative that they are peddling.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    I believe Ajmal Shahzad was the first ever brown guy to represent them in 2007. That says a lot about their culture and selection process
    Let’s be honest - most Asian players are not good enough. 8 out of 10 Asian players that play for England turn out to be below par and are chucked out of the team because of poor performances.

    The most celebrated Asian player in recent times, Moeen Ali, is also on his last legs and seems to be finished at the highest level at 32-33.

    So do we expect Yorkshire CCC and other teams to select Asian players just because they are Asian? Please provide a list of the Asian players that they rejected, the players were deserved to be selected on cricketing merit?

    The cricket world is harsh. Many deserving and talented cricketers slip under the radar or don’t get a chance. It happens in every country in the world. You obviously need some luck to make it as well, it is not just talent and hard work.

    However, when an Asian cricketer is neglected in a white team, then it is obviously because of racism. On the other hand, when a white player is neglected in a white team or when an Asian player in neglected in an Asian team, then he doesn’t have the luxury of playing the racism card.

  61. #61
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    Not to mention Guardian also conveniently omitted the part where he called ECB incompetent and the England U-19 coach a “useless w*nker” when he was dropped in 2010 because he wasn’t performing.

    This is the same incompetent ECB that made him captain in the first place.

    The aim of this publication is not to present a balanced, genuine story. The aim is to make Rafiq look like a saint who has been mistreated and wronged throughout his career.

    Guardian published the story of his outburst in 2010 but apparently it is not important now.

    Pathetic.

  62. #62
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    racism point is moot unless you can answer this question. Will an English born player who goes on to play in Pakistan be racially abused or not?

    people love to trumpet the race card to mask their own failures. That's very true. I am trying to be empathetical but people have to accept that racism exists everywhere. Most ethnic groups will stick with their own communities.

    If you move to a new country, you have to learn the language, the accent and attitude to fit in. You can't change tour personality but you need to adapt to your new environment. It s a big ask but that's life. life isn't fair.

  63. #63
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    If you want to argue your point - do so by countering arguments - no need for personal abuse.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Damn that's rough. Hope he is ok.
    Unfortunately most people have to develop thick skin to survive overseas hey.

    People are racist everywhere to be honest. If not racist it's usually bigotry. India are no exception and pakistan is no different. You guys look down upon Afghanis for example or people in general who have different religious beliefs.

    You are telling me an English kid who plays in pakistan won't be racially abused? It's all the same.

    When you are a minority, you will get picked on. It's up to you to fight back and stand up for yourself.
    The racism towards Afghans was due to Punjabis (Jatts) being at war with them a long time back, the Afghans failed miserably and rightly so as they usually started the tribal war. The racism issue still exists today because a lot of Afghan parents instil racist views about Jatts to their children from a young age. Nowadays in the real world you can see Afghans getting along with a lot of Pakistanis but will act wild with Jatts. Racism is wrong and cannot be justified but sometimes you have to put the racist in his place, not by being racist back however.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    racism point is moot unless you can answer this question. Will an English born player who goes on to play in Pakistan be racially abused or not?

    people love to trumpet the race card to mask their own failures. That's very true. I am trying to be empathetical but people have to accept that racism exists everywhere. Most ethnic groups will stick with their own communities.

    If you move to a new country, you have to learn the language, the accent and attitude to fit in. You can't change tour personality but you need to adapt to your new environment. It s a big ask but that's life. life isn't fair.
    No they would not. In fact, they would be celebrated and given honorary citizenship.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreePalestine View Post
    No they would not. In fact, they would be celebrated and given honorary citizenship.
    no you wouldn't. you would segregate him instead.

  67. #67
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    Yorkshire has had a problem with racism for many years.
    The Western Terrace was notorious — Pakistan's team played in 1992, a pig's head was paraded there as a taunt to Muslim players and then thrown towards the Pakistani supporters.

    This is despite, or maybe because of, the large Asian conurbations in Yorkshire (Bradford etc).

    As for why he didn’t speak out earlier — this is a classical example of people not feeling they have what is know and the “psychological safety” to do so. They put up with their lot.
    Ebony talked about this on Sky in the piece with Holding.

    And contrary to what some posters (who perhaps should know better or make themselves better informed) it is not just players who are not up to scratch who make these comments.
    Many of the West Indian stars faced awful racism — Gordon Greenidge has talked eloquently about this. And he was a great player.

    I think some folk perhaps need to be better informed.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If you are looking for sympathy you should look in another direction.

    He is yet another Asian cricketer whinging about racism after failing to make a mark because he was not good enough.

    This Azeem guy was touted as a future England player once upon a time, but he failed to make the step because he didn’t prove to be good enough or didn’t work hard enough. Now of course he is going to blame racism.

    If this guy would have been good enough and would have been an England star, he wouldn’t be complaining. It is that obvious.

    Besides, anyone who is sympathizing with him needs to look at this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...banned-twitter

    When he was dropped from the U-19 team in 2010, he called the U-19 coach a “useless w*nker”.

    That is how big a loser he is and was. Always trying to find a way to blame others instead of taking responsibility for the fact that he was not performing on the pitch.

    People like him will always look for reasons to blame others. First, ECB was incompetent, second the U-19 coach was a useless w*nker and third Yorkshire CCC is the home of racism all because this guy turned out to be a rubbish cricketer.

    ECB actually let him off easily by fining him for £500 and banning him for a month. He should have been booted out for good because this type of behavior and attitude are not acceptable.

    Adil Rashid has been at Yorkshire CCC since 2006. He has basically grown up in the environment this failure is talking about. But yet, you will not see him whinge about racism.

    Simply because he is actually a good cricketer who let his skill with the ball do the talking and had no reason to blame racism because he could hold his own as a cricketer. Today, he is England’s premier spinner in Limited Overs cricket while this guy is a complete nobody.

    This story of him walking alongside Rashid and Ajmal Shahzad. You would never have heard it from Rashid. Why? Because he doesn’t need it; he is secure and successful.

    But there is a good chance Ajmal Shahzad will latch onto it and claim his two minute of fame because like Rafiq, he is also a failure who couldn’t cut it in international cricket. However, I heard he is a coach for ECB now, so perhaps will keep it quiet to save his job.

    Rafiq had everything going for him 10 years back. Captained Yorkshire CCC T20 side and became the youngest ever to do so. So how come such a racist club didn’t have a problem with making Rafiq captain?

    He was also handed the England U-19 captaincy but once he stopped performing and got rightfully dropped, he labeled ECB incompetent. Where was this incompetence when he was made captain?

    Another racism story that has been gulped up by gullible folks who have no capacity to look at the bigger picture. This is nothing new.

    Does racism exist in English cricket? Of course. It exists everywhere. Do people use racism to deflect their own failures? Sadly, it happens quite frequently as well. This is no different.
    He wasn't good enough but he doesn't deserved to be racially abused. He isn't blaming racism for his shortcomings. He is highlighting racism.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Let’s be honest - most Asian players are not good enough. 8 out of 10 Asian players that play for England turn out to be below par and are chucked out of the team because of poor performances.
    This part of your post I actually agree with. I think the ECB have actually gone out of their way to try to include Asian players, many of whom have turned out to be good, but probably not good enough to hold down a regular spot in what is a very strong England side at present.

    But that has nothing to do with racism, you can experience racism whether you are an ordinary player or world class. Your usual 'playing the racism card' was predictable, but just more assumption to fit your preconceived ideas. Unless you actually know the ins and outs of his experience you are not really in a position to pass such judgements.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  70. #70
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    It filled me with great sadness to read this. Azeem Rafiq is genuinely great guy, from how he comes across and from what I've heard about him.

    The problem goes well beyond county cricket. A notable and recent example of this was Moeen Ali's experience of being called a terrorist during the Australia Ashes tour. Even then @Mamoon was in no hurry to mock him for "using the race card".

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    no you wouldn't. you would segregate him instead.
    ?? How do you know? Have you ever been to Pakistan?

    When foreigners, especially from Europe, come to Pakistan, they are treated like kings and queens. I am not saying this is good, but it is the exact opposite of what you said, that if an English person played cricket in Pakistan, they would be racially abused. These things are much more complex than that.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreePalestine View Post
    ?? How do you know? Have you ever been to Pakistan?

    When foreigners, especially from Europe, come to Pakistan, they are treated like kings and queens. I am not saying this is good, but it is the exact opposite of what you said, that if an English person played cricket in Pakistan, they would be racially abused. These things are much more complex than that.
    I'm glad somebody pointed that out. It gets tiresome people pointing out false narratives just to try to sound clever.


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  73. #73
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    @Mamoon

    Give it a rest. If this was about a non-Muslim player for the Pakistan team, you would have been sympathising for them. A case in point was when Shoaib Akhtar claimed that Kaneria had been mistreated and on the thread corresponding to this discussion, you said:

    "There is no doubt that his religion has contributed to the lack of respect and recognition from the Pakistani fans and players". If I need to jog your memory, the thread is here:

    http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...n-his-religion

    This is in spite of the fact you don't even find Mr Akhtar even close to being credible as per your views on him when you've repeatedly said "When Shoaib talks you don't listen". But it it took you no time to support his claim because it was a convenient opportunity to bring up your far left narrative.

    Now contrast your words of sympathy for the match fixer Kaneria with the way you're ridiculing Rafiq. As Hasan pointed out, we all know he wasn't good enough but that doesn't mean he shouldn't highlight the institutional racism that is clearly rampant in English cricket.

    But you would never understand nor comprehend the ground realities because you're not even based in the UK, which means you could never relate to these issues faced by British Asian cricketers especially as you're from a privileged background in Pakistan.

    Last year, you also foolishly decided to target Liverpool's Salah, I say foolishly because you called him out for a diving in a PL game even though every pundit/analyst disputed this to have been the case. When you were being exposed for your ignorance you decided to bring up Salah's religion as the reason for posters being "overly defensive" of him. Again to jog memory, see the relevant thread below:

    http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...yer&p=10599787

    You did yourself no favours by doing that because you just came across as someone who was picking on Salah for being Muslim. Perhaps it's the reason why you have been ridiculing Moeen Ali for "playing the race card" and now Azeem Rafiq - and yes I agree Moeen Ali isn't good enough to play for England.

    Yes there are plenty of Pakistanis and Muslims who use their race/religion card to their advantage/garner sympathy but I guess it's difficult for a far left wing nutcase like yourself to not paint a certain group of people with the same brush right?

    Your hypocrisy and double standards is there for everyone to see and I will conclude by saying that your views epitomise why the far left are just as toxic (and in some cases more dangerous) as those who are far right.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    This part of your post I actually agree with. I think the ECB have actually gone out of their way to try to include Asian players, many of whom have turned out to be good, but probably not good enough to hold down a regular spot in what is a very strong England side at present.

    But that has nothing to do with racism, you can experience racism whether you are an ordinary player or world class. Your usual 'playing the racism card' was predictable, but just more assumption to fit your preconceived ideas. Unless you actually know the ins and outs of his experience you are not really in a position to pass such judgements.


    I am comfortable passing judgements because he has a documented history of poor behavior and blaming others for his shortcomings.

    Take a look at his comments on ECB and the England U-19 coach after he was dropped in 2010. So he clearly does not deserve any sympathy or attention.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreePalestine View Post
    ?? How do you know? Have you ever been to Pakistan?

    When foreigners, especially from Europe, come to Pakistan, they are treated like kings and queens. I am not saying this is good, but it is the exact opposite of what you said, that if an English person played cricket in Pakistan, they would be racially abused. These things are much more complex than that.
    I agree tourists are treated well but not those who come to work in Pakistan. A good example is with Pakistan Coaches appointed from overseas. For e.g. Mickey Arthur was onced called an "incompetent gora" which is nothing short of being racist. Whenever an overseas coach is appointed, it's just rinse repeat with all the racist outbursts.

    I'm afraid to say this is a reflection of Pakistani society.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    It filled me with great sadness to read this. Azeem Rafiq is genuinely great guy, from how he comes across and from what I've heard about him.

    The problem goes well beyond county cricket. A notable and recent example of this was Moeen Ali's experience of being called a terrorist during the Australia Ashes tour. Even then @Mamoon was in no hurry to mock him for "using the race card".


    There seems to be a strong correlation between how mediocre an Asian cricketer is and how much he whines about racism/discrimination/scapegoating.

    If Moeen wasn’t get bullied on the pitch by the Australians and would have actually performed, he wouldn’t have complained about crowd behavior.

  77. #77
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    I'm british with Asian background, this is nothing new, so all the deniers are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think the race card validity has no justification in this country, it's a massive issue.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    no you wouldn't. you would segregate him instead.
    How would India treat him under the mohdis clan

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    [/b]

    There seems to be a strong correlation between how mediocre an Asian cricketer is and how much he whines about racism/discrimination/scapegoating.

    If Moeen wasn’t get bullied on the pitch by the Australians and would have actually performed, he wouldn’t have complained about crowd behavior.
    Mamoon if you're going to ridicule him, at least get your story right. It was an Aussie cricketer who called him a terrorist and when he reported it to management they told him to leave it as that and not take it any further. This goes back to my point on how the problem goes well beyond county cricket as ECB were reluctant to back Moeen on this.
    Last edited by topspin; 4th September 2020 at 22:27.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    racism point is moot unless you can answer this question. Will an English born player who goes on to play in Pakistan be racially abused or not?

    people love to trumpet the race card to mask their own failures. That's very true. I am trying to be empathetical but people have to accept that racism exists everywhere. Most ethnic groups will stick with their own communities.

    If you move to a new country, you have to learn the language, the accent and attitude to fit in. You can't change tour personality but you need to adapt to your new environment. It s a big ask but that's life. life isn't fair.
    Hi Tyron, so on your other points:

    ‘Racism exists everywhere’ - Yes, this is broadly right. But all racism or prejudice has context. So, in Pakistan there is discrimination on sectarian; gender; religious; socio-economic grounds and i am sure many others. But that can’t mean that we should just accept racism? After all, crimes happen everywhere in the world, and criminal activity is also a part of human nature, does that mean we should be ok with crime because ‘crime exists everywhere’?

    ‘Most ethnic groups will stick to their own communities’ - Also true. But the divisions between communities are not just because the minorities ‘haven’t learnt the language’, the reasons for these divisions can be widespread, including structural racism, the socio-economic background of the specific migrants (Chinese and Indian migrants are generally from more affluent backgrounds and so do better and often integrate more - people like Rishi Sunak, Priti Patel - are now integrated into the elite stratas of British society, which is predominantly white. So I would say economics more than a person’s laziness about learning a language is more the reason for those divisions. The reason I bring this up is because I don’t want you to think that people don’t want to integrate, or feel part of your community (who wouldn’t want that?) and that’s why there are divisions. I also wouldn’t want you to think you cannot have a deep friendship or connection with someone from a different ethnic group.

    So, the thing I picked up earlier, about your false equivalency ‘English born player in Pakistan...’ Like I said, they would be treated like gods. So if we think about why that is, we will see that structural racism in this context is the context of white supremacy. That may be main reason (apart from general curiosity and friendliness of Pakistani people) why European people are treated so well if they go to Pakistan (people won’t let you pay for stuff; they will want to talk to you; thank you for visiting; be hospitable; invite you for dinner; put you on tv). So, in England as well, especially in cricket, when they call people ‘p***’ or when the grandfather of someone on your team shouts that from the crowd, or a captain of a county cricket team is ‘openly racist’, that also reflects a culture of white supremacy.

    I agree that people need to adapt to the culture in which they live generally, but, in terms of the cricket community, South Asians constitute a huge chunk of revenue from the amateur game. I think they make up about 25% of the amateur cricket playing population. But a very, very, very disproportionately small percentage of those players make it into the professional game. So this is the structural racism problem that English cricket faces. The ECB is very aware of this and is working on it. You can see the benefits of it in your current English cricket team. Unfortunately looks like Yorkshire have not been.
    Last edited by FreePalestine; 4th September 2020 at 22:32.


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