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  1. #1
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    Pakistan calls for judicial inquiry into killing of 3 Kashmiris in IOK

    Pakistan on Saturday called for a judicial inquiry into the extrajudicial killing of three Kashmiris in Indian-occupied Kashmir (IOK) earlier this year.

    On Friday, the Indian army said it launched disciplinary proceedings against an unspecified number of soldiers following an inquiry into the killing of three suspected fighters in occupied Kashmir.

    A defence spokesman said evidence showed soldiers had exceeded their powers under the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), which grants the army broad authority including shoot-to-kill powers.

    In July the army said it had killed the three men in an operation against militants in the Shopian district of IOK.

    The families of the slain men said security forces had killed them in cold blood. The army said it was still investigating the dead men’s ties to militant groups.

    In a statement, the Foreign Office termed the Indian army's statement an "acknowledgement that Indian occupation forces are guilty of war crimes in IIOJK (Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir)".

    Read | Occupied Kashmir sees 229 killings in first half of 2020: report

    The statement said the three Kashmiri boys — 25-year-old Imtiyaz Ahmed, Mohammad Ibrar, 20, and 16-year-old Abrar Ahmed — had come to Shopian to work in an apple orchard as labourers but were killed in a "so-called 'cordon and search' operation".

    It added that the Indian army had claimed that the three boys were "unidentified terrorists" to cover up their "cold-blooded murder" and had buried them in a graveyard marked for "foreign terrorists" instead of returning their bodies to their families.

    "The Indian occupation army itself has admitted that the three innocent Kashmiri labourers were killed extra-judicially — a hallmark of Indian occupation forces’ state-terrorism in IIOJK. In [its] statement, the Indian army has accepted that the powers vested under the draconian Armed Forces Special Powers Act were exceeded," the FO said.

    "Since its illegal and unilateral actions of Aug 5, 2019, in IIOJK, India has taken its brutalisation of innocent Kashmiris to a new level. More than 300, mostly young, Kashmiris have been extra-judicially killed by the Indian occupation forces in fake 'encounters' and staged 'cordon-and-search' operations in IIOJK during the past one year."

    "The BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party) leadership must realise that they are directly responsible for crimes against the Kashmiri people. No illegal and inhuman [laws] such as Armed Forces Special Powers Act and Public Safety Act (PSA) can provide impunity against the crimes that are being perpetrated in IIOJK," the handout said.

    The Foreign Office called for a "transparent judicial inquiry, under international scrutiny, into the extra-judicial killing" of the three Kashmiris, while urging the international community to take notice of the incident.

    "The international community must take immediate cognisance of the July 18, 2020, episode in IIOJK as well as other acts indicative of the RSS-BJP regime’s genocidal tendencies and hold it accountable for continuing crimes against the Kashmiri people," it stressed.

    "India should be well-aware that use of brutal force, including extra-judicial killings, enforced disappearances, torture in custody, use of pellet guns [and] burning and destruction of Kashmiris’ houses to inflict collective punishment, cannot break the will of Kashmiri people in their just struggle for the inalienable right to self-determination."

    The "fake encounter" in July revived memories of similar incidents across the restive territory where a three-decade-old separatist insurgency has left tens of thousands dead, mainly civilians.

    In 2010, three Indian army officers were found guilty of killing three labourers who had been branded as Pakistani infiltrators near the Line of Control.

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1580526/pa...shmiris-in-iok


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  2. #2
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    Seems Indian army conducting its own inquiry into this as well.


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  3. #3
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    Indian army admits wrongdoing in killing three Kashmiris

    Srinagar, Indian-administered Kashmir - The Indian army says its soldiers exceeded powers under the controversial Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) in the killing of three local civilians in southern Indian-administered Kashmir earlier this year.

    On July 18, Indian armed forces said they killed three unidentified "rebels" in Amshipora village in Shopian.

    An Indian army spokesperson on Friday said the victims were now identified as residents of Rajouri district whose families had filed a complaint accusing soldiers of killing them in a staged gun battle.

    "The inquiry ordered by the Army authorities into op Amshipora has been concluded. The inquiry has brought out certain prima facie evidence indicating that during the operation, powers vested under the AFSPA 1990 were exceeded," Colonel Rajesh Kalia, the army spokesperson, said in a statement.

    "The evidence collected by the inquiry has prima-facie indicated that the three unidentified terrorists killed in Op Amshipora were Imtiyaz Ahmed, Abrar Ahmed and Mohd Ibrar, who hailed from Rajouri. Their DNA report is awaited. Their involvement with terrorism or related activities is under investigation by the police," the statement said.

    The statement by police claimed army personnel were shot at during a search operation.

    Days after the incident, a photograph of the three people killed went viral on social media following which the three families identified them and filed the complaint.

    After the army's rare admission of guilt on Friday, Muhammad Naseeb Khatana, cousin of Muhammad Ibrar told Al Jazeera the three men, all of them cousins, left Rajouri for Shopian to work as labourers.

    "They reached Shopian on July 17 and that evening was the last time we talked to them. It was during the coronavirus lockdown and we thought they might have been quarantined. We kept waiting but there was no news," said Khatana.

    "When we saw the photograph, we filed a report in which we identified our relatives who were dubbed militants by the army. What more injustice could they do to the innocent people."

    Another family member said they have been deliberately denied DNA reports "for too long".

    "On August 3, our samples were taken and there is no report until now," the relative said.

    "Today, they called one member of each family and admitted that the three were killed in a fake encounter. We want them to bring those people who killed them in front of us and punish them. We want the bodies of our family members."

    Ibrar, the youngest of the trio, worked as a labourer to save money for his education, his family told Al Jazeera.

    Human rights activists in Kashmir see the encounter as a gun battle in which civilians were dubbed "rebels" and killed by the army to claim monetary benefits and medals.

    In May 2010, large scale protests erupted in Kashmir after a police investigation revealed the army killed three civilians in a staged gun battle at Machil area near the Line of Control in the frontier Kupwara district.

    The three labourers were lured to Machil and killed there before being labelled "militants" by the army to claim a reward.

    'Widespread impunity'
    Under AFSPA, a counterterrorism law with sweeping provisions, security forces enjoy "widespread impunity".

    It grants "powers" to members of the armed forces in "disturbed areas" like Kashmir to shoot-to-kill or arrest suspected people.

    Section 7 of the AFSPA provides virtual impunity for human rights violations by security forces personnel, as any civilian prosecution can only proceed after obtaining prior sanction from the central government.

    In the 30 years this law has been in force in Jammu and Kashmir, that authorisation has never been granted.

    Parvez Imroz, a noted human rights lawyer in the region, told Al Jazeera: "This incident cannot be taken in isolation.

    "They were civilians, the statement doesn't mention it. It mentions them as terrorists.

    "This incident cannot be taken in isolation, the culture of the army in 30 years needs to be looked at. The history is that the army has complete impunity, they cannot be prosecuted and punished.

    "They might try to silence families unofficially which they have done in many cases in Kashmir."

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...173047540.html

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Seems Indian army conducting its own inquiry into this as well.
    They have done this always. The criminal investigates his own crime. Mostly nothing comes off it but once in a while they admit there is something fishy just to show that they are also capable of unbiased investigation. However, that also doesnt culminate into any serious action.

    A couple of days back a man was killed in custody and then declared an over ground worker of militants. The official story was something like this, "The police arrested an 23 year old OGW and were transporting him to another location at night when he escaped. Police then looked for him and found him dead after a couple of hours".

  5. #5
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    Condemn the killings, but don't call for judicial enquiries. This suggests that Pakistan acknowledges the HM judicial system's jurisdiction over Kashmir, which is totally at odds with our official stance.

    By the way @Madplayer, these three boys were from Rajouri, right? Does that mean they were Gujjars? There have been other atrocities committed against Gujjars recently, especially in Eastern Jammu where they are a minority. Not sure if that is making them question the pro-HM stance they have been notorious for.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    They have done this always. The criminal investigates his own crime. Mostly nothing comes off it but once in a while they admit there is something fishy just to show that they are also capable of unbiased investigation. However, that also doesnt culminate into any serious action.

    A couple of days back a man was killed in custody and then declared an over ground worker of militants. The official story was something like this, "The police arrested an 23 year old OGW and were transporting him to another location at night when he escaped. Police then looked for him and found him dead after a couple of hours".
    Pathetic really. No justice here.

    Pakistan, if it is serious about caring for Kashmir should completely end all relations with HM. No exceptions.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
    Condemn the killings, but don't call for judicial enquiries. This suggests that Pakistan acknowledges the HM judicial system's jurisdiction over Kashmir, which is totally at odds with our official stance.

    By the way @Madplayer, these three boys were from Rajouri, right? Does that mean they were Gujjars? There have been other atrocities committed against Gujjars recently, especially in Eastern Jammu where they are a minority. Not sure if that is making them question the pro-HM stance they have been notorious for.
    Yes. However the gujjars dont all feel the same. Its true however that many of them join forces and inflict pain on Kashmiris but it has more to do with a lack of ideology rather than actually having one. They are thoughtless mercenaries who just care about money and it's a shame because they were the ones masscared in the ethnic cleansing of Jammu muslims by dogra hindutva terrorists, circa 1947-48. However, i still maintain that they aren't all the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msaaim89 View Post
    Pathetic really. No justice here.

    Pakistan, if it is serious about caring for Kashmir should completely end all relations with HM. No exceptions.
    There needs to be a lot more done than this. Its going nowhere at the moment.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Yes. However the gujjars dont all feel the same. Its true however that many of them join forces and inflict pain on Kashmiris but it has more to do with a lack of ideology rather than actually having one. They are thoughtless mercenaries who just care about money and it's a shame because they were the ones masscared in the ethnic cleansing of Jammu muslims by dogra hindutva terrorists, circa 1947-48. However, i still maintain that they aren't all the same.
    Speaking of Rajouri, do they have many Sudhan Pashtuns in those two districts, or are they predominantly Gujjar? The reason I ask is that the old Poonch jageer was the first to rebel against the Dogras, and it was the Sudhans who were at the forefront, and they are today the most prominent community in AJK, proud of having liberated themselves. I think initially AJK/Pakistan held most of Poonch and Rajouri (the Jhelum Valley if you will) before they were lost, but even today there’s a Poonch district in AJK. They are also just across the LoC, the place most likely to have ethnic kin across the line, so I wonder why separatism never caught on there like it did in the valley.

  10. #10
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    By two districts I meant Poonch and Rajouri.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
    Speaking of Rajouri, do they have many Sudhan Pashtuns in those two districts, or are they predominantly Gujjar? The reason I ask is that the old Poonch jageer was the first to rebel against the Dogras, and it was the Sudhans who were at the forefront, and they are today the most prominent community in AJK, proud of having liberated themselves. I think initially AJK/Pakistan held most of Poonch and Rajouri (the Jhelum Valley if you will) before they were lost, but even today there’s a Poonch district in AJK. They are also just across the LoC, the place most likely to have ethnic kin across the line, so I wonder why separatism never caught on there like it did in the valley.
    I think the Pathans are just scattered here and there in Rajouri & Poonch. The Gujjars and Bakerwals are more in number there as far as i know. In Kashmir, we have a sizeable community of pathans in Gandarbal district with Gutlibagh area having a dense population of them. They are really nice people who have maintained their identity over the years.

  12. #12
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    The Foreign Office called for a "transparent judicial inquiry, under international scrutiny, into the extra-judicial killing" of the three Kashmiris, while urging the international community to take notice of the incident.

    "The international community must take immediate cognisance of the July 18, 2020, episode in IIOJK as well as other acts indicative of the RSS-BJP regime’s genocidal tendencies and hold it accountable for continuing crimes against the Kashmiri people," it stressed.
    How many times does the “international community” have to embarrass us for us to realize that they do not care?

    We make a plea to the “international community” every few months and what do we get in return? Humiliation.

    We did bhangra after Imran’s bombastic speech at the UNGA last September and what did that lead to? Nothing.

    The only conclusion that we can draw is that we love to get humiliated and be reminded of our place and status.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    How many times does the “international community” have to embarrass us for us to realize that they do not care?

    We make a plea to the “international community” every few months and what do we get in return? Humiliation.

    We did bhangra after Imran’s bombastic speech at the UNGA last September and what did that lead to? Nothing.

    The only conclusion that we can draw is that we love to get humiliated and be reminded of our place and status.
    What is your solution? Just leave the people to their suffering?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by msaaim89 View Post
    What is your solution? Just leave the people to their suffering?
    Don’t ask questions whose answers you will not like.

    Moreover, getting ourselves snubbed by the international community time and time again is not the solution either, but it appears that our state thinks that when you throw enough mud at the wall, some will stick. Well keep throwing then.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Don’t ask questions whose answers you will not like.

    Moreover, getting ourselves snubbed by the international community time and time again is not the solution either, but it appears that our state thinks that when you throw enough mud at the wall, some will stick. Well keep throwing then.
    Try answering the question?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by msaaim89 View Post
    What is your solution? Just leave the people to their suffering?
    Pakistan should focus on the development of its own country rather than interfering in India's internal matter. India never gonna give up Kashmir and now with abrogation of article 370, its an union territory which is directly governed by New Delhi. Pakistan should give up on Kashmir dreams and let India handle the situation. Keeping status quo on Kashmir have done plenty of damage to Pakistan as a country - economically, militarily, FATF grey list, governance, reputation loss etc. Mainland India on the other hand have had zero impact due to the issues in Kashmir. Thats why India has grown leaps and bounds since independence and became one of the largest emerging markets in the world (close 2nd only to Brazil). Pakistan, a country with huge potential remained backwards because it channels its entire focus on a losing cause named Kashmir.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    Pakistan should focus on the development of its own country rather than interfering in India's internal matter. India never gonna give up Kashmir and now with abrogation of article 370, its an union territory which is directly governed by New Delhi. Pakistan should give up on Kashmir dreams and let India handle the situation. Keeping status quo on Kashmir have done plenty of damage to Pakistan as a country - economically, militarily, FATF grey list, governance, reputation loss etc. Mainland India on the other hand have had zero impact due to the issues in Kashmir. Thats why India has grown leaps and bounds since independence and became one of the largest emerging markets in the world (close 2nd only to Brazil). Pakistan, a country with huge potential remained backwards because it channels its entire focus on a losing cause named Kashmir.
    I asked Mamoon.

    Your response is pure rubbish. How can it be internal when India tries to claim Azad Kashmir.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by msaaim89 View Post
    Try answering the question?
    Okay.

    First we need to decide if we support an independent Kashmir or Indian Kashmir merging with Pakistani Kashmir.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    I think the Pathans are just scattered here and there in Rajouri & Poonch. The Gujjars and Bakerwals are more in number there as far as i know. In Kashmir, we have a sizeable community of pathans in Gandarbal district with Gutlibagh area having a dense population of them. They are really nice people who have maintained their identity over the years.
    I read up a bit about the Pashtuns in Kashmir proper just now, and it doesn’t appear like they are the same as the ones in the AJK side of Poonch. I’ll have to ask people from AJK how there aren’t any Sudhans anymore in the IOK part of Poonch and Rajouri. Perhaps they all left for AJK in 1947.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
    I read up a bit about the Pashtuns in Kashmir proper just now, and it doesn’t appear like they are the same as the ones in the AJK side of Poonch. I’ll have to ask people from AJK how there aren’t any Sudhans anymore in the IOK part of Poonch and Rajouri. Perhaps they all left for AJK in 1947.
    So i knew this girl in college who claimed to be a Pashtun. At first i thought she is a gujjar or something because some gujjars do claim to be pathans. But later i came to know about their community in Gandarbal. And she spoke fluent Pashto so that was convincing as well.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Okay.

    First we need to decide if we support an independent Kashmir or Indian Kashmir merging with Pakistani Kashmir.
    Still haven't answered the question.

    Provide a solution for both of the options.


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