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  1. #1
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    French President Macron says Islam ‘in crisis’, prompting backlash from Muslims

    President Emmanuel Macron has unveiled a plan to defend France’s secular values against what he termed as “Islamist radicalism”, saying the religion was “in crisis” all over the world, prompting a backlash from Muslim activists.

    In a long-awaited address on Friday, Macron insisted “no concessions” would be made in a new drive to push religion out of education and the public sector in France.

    “Islam is a religion that is in crisis all over the world today, we are not just seeing this in our country,” he said.

    He announced that the government would present a bill in December to strengthen a 1905 law that officially separated church and state in France.

    The measures, Macron said, were aimed at addressing a problem of growing “radicalisation” in France and improving “our ability to live together”.

    “Secularism is the cement of a united France,” he insisted, but added that there was no sense in stigmatising all Muslim believers.

    The law permits people to belong to any faith of their choosing, Macron said, but outward displays of religious affiliation would be banned in schools and the public service.

    Wearing the hijab is already banned in French schools and for public servants at their workplace.

    Yasser Louati, a French Muslim activist, tweeted: “The repression of Muslims has been a threat, now it is a promise. In a one hour speech #Macron burried #laicite, emboldened the far right, anti-Muslim leftists and threatened the lives of Muslim students by calling for drastic limits on home schooling despite a global pandemic.”

    Rim-Sarah Alaoune, a French academic, tweeted: “President Macron described Islam as ‘a religion that is in crisis all over the world today’. I don’t even know what to say. This remark is so dumb (sorry it is) that it does not need any further analysis … I won’t hide that I am concerned. No mention of white supremacy even though we are the country that exported the racist and white supremacist theory of the ‘great replacement’, used by the terrorist who committed the horrific massacre in #Christchurch.”

    Iyad el-Baghdadi, Norway-based writer and activist, simply wrote on Twitter; “F*** you, @EmmanuelMacron.”

    In his speech, Macron also claimed he is seeking to “liberate” Islam in France from foreign influences by improving oversight of mosque financing.
    There would also be closer scrutiny of schools and associations exclusively serving religious communities.

    France is once again evaluating its relationship with its Muslim minority, the largest in Europe.

    Last month alone saw a French parliamentarian from Macron’s La Republique En Marche party stage a walkout over the presence of a hijab-clad student union leader at a parliamentary inquiry.

    That incident was preceded a week earlier by another polemic, involving a French journalist who retweeted a young Muslim influencer’s post about cooking on a budget with the caption “11 September,” in reference to the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center in New York.

    Macron on Friday was speaking one week after a man attacked two people with a meat cleaver outside the former Paris offices of the Charlie Hebdo satirical weekly, an assault condemned by the government as an act of “Islamist terrorism”.

    Staff at Charlie Hebdo were killed in January 2015 by armed gunmen seeking to avenge its publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

    Members of the Muslim community in France have consistently denounced the acts, describing them as going against the precepts of their religion.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2...mpression=true


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  2. #2
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    Macron is correct. Muslims have wrecked havoc in Europe by carrying out numerous terror attacks. Not to forget that Muslims are also involved in crime throughout Europe.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Macron is correct. Muslims have wrecked havoc in Europe by carrying out numerous terror attacks. Not to forget that Muslims are also involved in crime throughout Europe.
    Its Western nation that caused wreckage in Muslim countries and Muslims retaliated but unfortunately chose the wrong measures.

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    I think he's used the wrong terminology. When I read that a people are in a crisis I immediately think they need aid and support, I think from his actions he means secularism is in crisis, hence the need to crack down on the threat of Islam rising in France and defend secular dress codes in all public places.


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Macron is correct. Muslims have wrecked havoc in Europe by carrying out numerous terror attacks. Not to forget that Muslims are also involved in crime throughout Europe.
    You can’t make a blanket statement like that, especially for such a diverse group.

    Crime isn’t only the domain of Muslims either.


    Better luck next time

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakPremi View Post
    Its Western nation that caused wreckage in Muslim countries and Muslims retaliated but unfortunately chose the wrong measures.
    And we go to the other extreme.

  7. #7
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    I thought secularims was in crisis in France, hence government curbing rights for Muslims only.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Macron is correct. Muslims have wrecked havoc in Europe by carrying out numerous terror attacks. Not to forget that Muslims are also involved in crime throughout Europe.
    Any stats that show that "Muslims" commit more crimes than other groups in Europe? I mean there are millions of Muslims in Europe, I am sure some are criminals but are there any stats to show that the percentage of criminals in Muslims is higher than in any other group?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by miandadrules View Post
    You can’t make a blanket statement like that, especially for such a diverse group.

    Crime isn’t only the domain of Muslims either.
    Unfortunately, muslims do have a disproportionately higher rate of crime than other ethnic and religious groups not only in France but also in other European countries. So it is not a blanket statement. It is a factual one.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by miandadrules View Post
    And we go to the other extreme.
    Difference is its some Muslim fundamentist caused terrorism but the Muslim countries were destroyed by the governments of so called civilised Western coeauntries for their own interests.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gani999 View Post
    Unfortunately, muslims do have a disproportionately higher rate of crime than other ethnic and religious groups not only in France but also in other European countries. So it is not a blanket statement. It is a factual one.
    Interesting, can you post a link from a credible source to back up your "factual" claim?

  12. #12
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    Islam isnt to be blamed. Its the followers who have been involved in terrorist activities. France has had its unfortunate share, the latest being the stabbings in Paris.

    While i dont support the mocking of a religion, the disproportionate response from few muslims, who believe that medieval style justice of killing people is the way has created this muslim phobia.

    Then we have some nutjobs who will say things like, Islam is the fastest-growing religion soon we will have the numbers in europe to implement sharia. These comments will only further create phobia in the mind of people.

    The moderate majority needs to not defend these guys, rather shun them.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Islam isnt to be blamed. Its the followers who have been involved in terrorist activities. France has had its unfortunate share, the latest being the stabbings in Paris.

    While i dont support the mocking of a religion, the disproportionate response from few muslims, who believe that medieval style justice of killing people is the way has created this muslim phobia.

    Then we have some nutjobs who will say things like, Islam is the fastest-growing religion soon we will have the numbers in europe to implement sharia. These comments will only further create phobia in the mind of people.

    The moderate majority needs to not defend these guys, rather shun them.
    Then why did you vote for the honorable PM, Modi "Ji"?

  14. #14
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    I am really surprised to see Macron saying this. Damn!

    Disappointing.



  15. #15
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    He needs the votes lmao.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Generico View Post
    Any stats that show that "Muslims" commit more crimes than other groups in Europe? I mean there are millions of Muslims in Europe, I am sure some are criminals but are there any stats to show that the percentage of criminals in Muslims is higher than in any other group?
    Don’t know about the rest of Europe but France does have an over representation of Muslims in prison however some of those numbers will include people converting to Islam after they have committed their crime and thrown in prison.

    https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/are-7...nmates-muslims

    The figure is clearly not 70% however it’s still several times the Muslim population in France (8-10%).

    In fact they are over represented in UK prisons too but nowhere near the levels of France.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31794599

    Of course that doesn’t answer your specific question as not all criminals go to prison.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh View Post
    Don’t know about the rest of Europe but France does have an over representation of Muslims in prison however some of those numbers will include people converting to Islam after they have committed their crime and thrown in prison.

    https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/are-7...nmates-muslims

    The figure is clearly not 70% however it’s still several times the Muslim population in France (8-10%).

    In fact they are over represented in UK prisons too but nowhere near the levels of France.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31794599

    Of course that doesn’t answer your specific question as not all criminals go to prison.
    I am not an expert on this but often innocent people can end up in prison cause they might not have the knowledge or resources required to be able to defend themselves in court. Also Muslims in France normally seem to be from new immigrant groups who likely do not have the financial resources that others have to defend themselves in court. Not saying this is the only reason for the supposed high prison rate but this does play a part. In most countries people who are part of "poorer" communities always tend to be overrepresented in prisons. This is a socio-economic thing nothing to do with religion.


    Anyways even in the article you posted the real rate of Muslims in French prisons is an estimate and also consists of people converting. This is no where near "factual" proof that @gani999 was talking about Muslims disproportionately committing crimes all over Europe.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Macron is correct. Muslims have wrecked havoc in Europe by carrying out numerous terror attacks. Not to forget that Muslims are also involved in crime throughout Europe.
    What religion do you follow? OR you an athiest?

    On OP

    Its France which is in trouble. France demands you wear a mask but will fine you if you're a Muslim women covering your face with a cloth which according to the French is not a mask lol.

    France is a dump, I hate travelling through towards other areas of Europe.


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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    What religion do you follow? OR you an athiest?

    On OP

    Its France which is in trouble. France demands you wear a mask but will fine you if you're a Muslim women covering your face with a cloth which according to the French is not a mask lol.

    France is a dump, I hate travelling through towards other areas of Europe.
    I cant say about france. But spain i know very well as my partner is from spain. Muslims live in a parallel society. Not good in the long run. Especially for the younger ones. If you cant distinguish between a face mask during a pandemic and and niqab then...... I for one though dont believe in the government telling me what i can wear or not. France gets plenty of tourist. I dont think you will be missed much

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    While the statement is unfortunate, it's important to understand the French perspective too.

    They have been dealing with an ongoing influx of Muslim migrants that misbehave, act rowdy, and essentially are a problem for the country. These people aren't welcome but continue to sneak in mostly with a desire to reach the UK. Of course, the terror attacks don't help with this sentiment.

    Even though each of these migrants comes from different nations, there's one identifying factor and that's Islam. When that happens, you see the religion become a target.

    They've also been trying to work with the UK to block the crossing but it's not easy. So, you end up seeing other micro-aggressions such as statements like these or the face covering ban.


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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gani999 View Post
    I know some senior French police officers who told me. I also knew some chaps in the Europol who said the same thing.

    It is difficult to find religion-based crime statistics in Europe as they don't make such data public.
    That isn't a proper source and it also doesn't take into account other factors.

    They just told you more people from certain groups are in jail, it does not explain other factors related to it.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gani999 View Post
    I know some senior French police officers who told me. I also knew some chaps in the Europol who said the same thing.

    It is difficult to find religion-based crime statistics in Europe as they don't make such data public.
    So basically you are just going by what a couple of people supposedly said and have no actual evidence. You really shouldn’t use words like “factual” if the only proof you have to back up your claim is a conversation that you had with someone you know.
    Last edited by El Generico; 3rd October 2020 at 01:32.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    What religion do you follow? OR you an athiest?

    On OP

    Its France which is in trouble. France demands you wear a mask but will fine you if you're a Muslim women covering your face with a cloth which according to the French is not a mask lol.

    France is a dump, I hate travelling through towards other areas of Europe.
    How is france in trouble?

    There is a difference between a proper mask and a piece of cloth.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Macron is correct. Not to forget that Muslims are also involved in crime throughout Europe.
    Christians and Atheists are also involved in committing crime throughout Europe. I guess this means Christianity and Atheism are in crisis in Europe too. Stupid logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Generico View Post
    So basically you are just going by what a couple of people supposedly said and have no actual evidence. You really shouldn’t use words like “factual” if the only proof you have to back up your claim is a conversation that you had with someone you know.
    When those 'couple of people' happen to be top ranking law enforcement officials with more than thirty years of experience, I'll take their word better than anyone else's, thank you.

    And as I said before, it is difficult to get crime statistics based on religion in Europe. Stats based on such potentially sensitive topics are not usually made public.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh View Post
    representation of Muslims in prison however some of those numbers will include people converting to Islam after they have committed their crime and thrown in prison.
    It's not just 'some', it's quite a high proportion in most western countries.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conver...lam_in_prisons

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Macron is correct. Muslims have wrecked havoc in Europe by carrying out numerous terror attacks. Not to forget that Muslims are also involved in crime throughout Europe.
    Didn't know you could reach this level.
    Last edited by sweep_shot; 3rd October 2020 at 09:13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    Didn't know you could reach this level.
    Am I wrong? If you prefer to bury your head in the sand, then I cannot do much.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    What religion do you follow? OR you an athiest?

    On OP

    Its France which is in trouble. France demands you wear a mask but will fine you if you're a Muslim women covering your face with a cloth which according to the French is not a mask lol.

    France is a dump, I hate travelling through towards other areas of Europe.
    Why is my religion relevant here?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Why is my religion relevant here?
    Because your posts are almost exclusively negative about orthodox Islam so would be very helpful to have some context so we could see an alternative path.


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    I tend to agree with Macron's remarks. Personally, I have no issues if people choose to follow a religion however, Muslims need to adapt to the country they live in and learn to abide by the rules of the country. Religion is a personal matter which should be kept personal.

    For example, if the Hijab is banned in France than so be it. Follow the rules. If you have problems with the rules of the country and are unable to follow these then relocate somewhere else. It's as simple as that. Why do Muslims in France (and other countries) choose to cause havoc and resort to violence and terrorism rather than living peacefully and adapting to the culture and country they have chosen to live in.




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  32. #32
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    Pakistanis shouldn't be rattled about this.

    Most Muslims in France are from Algeria/Tunisia and other French African colonies - Pakistanis have nothing to do with them.

    It's time to be selfish and throw them under the bus if they're causing trouble. If Pakistanis are not, their flag should still fly high - in France or elsewhere.


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    Macron was the toast of liberals when he became the president. Maybe him having a spouse who was 25 years older had something to do with the perception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Pakistanis shouldn't be rattled about this.

    Most Muslims in France are from Algeria/Tunisia and other French African colonies - Pakistanis have nothing to do with them.

    It's time to be selfish and throw them under the bus if they're causing trouble. If Pakistanis are not, their flag should still fly high - in France or elsewhere.
    Nicely done..

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    France is one of the worst western countries a true dump and I think this kind "liberal" ideology is the reason

    Fix that dump of a country first!

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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    I tend to agree with Macron's remarks. Personally, I have no issues if people choose to follow a religion however, Muslims need to adapt to the country they live in and learn to abide by the rules of the country. Religion is a personal matter which should be kept personal.

    For example, if the Hijab is banned in France than so be it. Follow the rules. If you have problems with the rules of the country and are unable to follow these then relocate somewhere else. It's as simple as that. Why do Muslims in France (and other countries) choose to cause havoc and resort to violence and terrorism rather than living peacefully and adapting to the culture and country they have chosen to live in.
    Don't you think hijab is a freedom of choice and the state is trampling down on it by banning it

    I know it's unconstitutional in the states but france has a totally different ideology

    and if you're muslim and you're born in france that's your country but if the state can't tolerate your religion and choice than that toxic ideology should be kicked out not the people born there

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    Absolute garbage statement, and is obviously aimed at wooing back his lost voters who are drifting to the right wing and have a current preference for M. Le Pen.

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    Islam-bashing to get left-wing votes... what's new there?

    Uncalled for from Macron as there are many other ways to categorise criminals and trouble-mongers but he took the easy route to avoid outrage from the hypocritical "woke" generation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    Don't you think hijab is a freedom of choice and the state is trampling down on it by banning it

    I know it's unconstitutional in the states but france has a totally different ideology

    and if you're muslim and you're born in france that's your country but if the state can't tolerate your religion and choice than that toxic ideology should be kicked out not the people born there
    The Hijab is banned in public schools and government jobs. Nowhere else. The Niqab, which is the full face covering, is however banned in France and you can probably imagine why.

    The state tolerates religion just fine.




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    For those who think Macron was wrong. I'll just leave this here:





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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    I tend to agree with Macron's remarks. Personally, I have no issues if people choose to follow a religion however, Muslims need to adapt to the country they live in and learn to abide by the rules of the country. Religion is a personal matter which should be kept personal.

    For example, if the Hijab is banned in France than so be it. Follow the rules. If you have problems with the rules of the country and are unable to follow these then relocate somewhere else. It's as simple as that. Why do Muslims in France (and other countries) choose to cause havoc and resort to violence and terrorism rather than living peacefully and adapting to the culture and country they have chosen to live in.
    Agree with you that Muslims need to adapt and learn to live and abide by the rules of the country they live in. But of course they also have the same right as the rest of the French to protest and voice their opinion if they feel oppressed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Agree with you that Muslims need to adapt and learn to live and abide by the rules of the country they live in. But of course they also have the same right as the rest of the French to protest and voice their opinion if they feel oppressed.
    Yes, definitely. I don't think those rights have been revoked though.




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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    Yes, definitely. I don't think those rights have been revoked though.
    Agreed. So there is no problem. Muslims are fine and so is France.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    The Hijab is banned in public schools and government jobs. Nowhere else. The Niqab, which is the full face covering, is however banned in France and you can probably imagine why.

    The state tolerates religion just fine.
    This is 100% religious discrimination cause you're prohibiting people from wear their religious garments in public places just think if a sikh is asked to stop wearing his turban this would and should create a big discrimination case I am sure if this happened in US any court would dismissed the gov rulings in seconds "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

    Hell even burqa isn't banned and 9/11 happened here how much trauma are the french facing so they have to ban hijab? They seem scared of muslims for some reason

    Uk or US would never do something like that cause this is basic religious freedom and if you're not doing that than no you're incorrect about "The state tolerates religion just fine."

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    Lol, they pretend they want to stop radicalization and funding of salafi mosques.

    The British govt and the govt of all Western Europeon countries exactly know what they're doing. They invite Saudi funding of mosques and the rampant spread of Wahabism.

    Western agencies have been promoting terrorists in the past and still are

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    You are talking about freedom of choice for muslims in a western country, do muslims extend the same courtesy to others in theirs?

    French will live by the french culture,their native way of life. Non natives should try and adjust.
    What kind of dank logic is this

    We are talking about western principles of democracy and freedom and we are judging france by those principles

    If they want sharia in France than we'll judge tham by that logic meanwhile according to western laws and principles I can tell this is unlawful in several western countries and it's plain and simple an attack on religious freedom (cornerstone of western ideals and principles)

    And no "non natives" (funny word but I guess it can work in Europe) shouldn't adjust because in any other western nation this is unconstitutional than it shows thier is something wrong with france's laws or constitution they're not matching the western ideals of religious freedom

    I don't know why you're comparing muslim countries and western countries tbh

    West operating on different philosophy than other and I am judging by the standards they chose for themselves

  48. #48
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    Just as French Muslim Footballers would say: “if you score you are French, if you don’t you are a Muslim”.
    Hate has no limit there

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    This is 100% religious discrimination cause you're prohibiting people from wear their religious garments in public places just think if a sikh is asked to stop wearing his turban this would and should create a big discrimination case I am sure if this happened in US any court would dismissed the gov rulings in seconds "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

    Hell even burqa isn't banned and 9/11 happened here how much trauma are the french facing so they have to ban hijab? They seem scared of muslims for some reason

    Uk or US would never do something like that cause this is basic religious freedom and if you're not doing that than no you're incorrect about "The state tolerates religion just fine."
    France is not the only country to have done this so not sure what all the fuss is about. Morocco, Tunisia, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan are basically Muslim countires that have also banned the Burqa.




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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    France is not the only country to have done this so not sure what all the fuss is about. Morocco, Tunisia, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan are basically Muslim countires that have also banned the Burqa.
    Firstly its Hijab I am talking about (ban in public educational facilities and gov jobs)


    And Muslim or non Muslim is it the right thing to do?
    Don't you think this act (done by any country) is crushing religious freedoms and its these basic stuff that should guaranteed by any constitution especially the western one's?

    I see this as a bad precedence just as a law

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    A community is crisis is one which is getting weaker. Islam, more than say Christians or Atheists is actually getting stronger as the number of followers of Islam is increasing while those of Christians or Atheists are declining.

    Macron has it backwards, of course given that he chose not to have children himself it is understandable that he has it backwards!

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    France has a very authoritarian approach to domestic policy and personal preference that is foreign to America. I don't why they're obsessed with how their citizens dress.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    France has a very authoritarian approach to domestic policy and personal preference that is foreign to America. I don't why they're obsessed with how their citizens dress.
    Because one is a citizen of the Republique first, and adherent to a religion second.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Because one is a citizen of the Republique first, and adherent to a religion second.
    There's no republic without the people. The government shouldn't tell people how live their lives.

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    Is France punishing activists for condemning crackdown on Muslims?

    The president of the NGO BarakaCity, Idriss Sihamedi, was arrested by armed officers in a raid broadcast online on Wednesday. Sihamedi had criticised President Macron’s recent comments on supposed ‘Islamic separatism’.
    French Muslims are in uproar after armed police targeted a critic of President Emmanuel Macron in a raid that was broadcast live online.

    Idriss Sihamedi, the founder and president of the NGO BarakaCity, says he was beaten and forcibly restrained by officers who pressed his head against the floor during the raid at his home on Wednesday.

    A member of the group, which conducts charitable projects within France and abroad, broadcast the scenes, showing broken surveillance equipment, furniture overturned, and documents strewn across the floor.

    According to BarakaCity, police prevented Sihamedi’s wife from dressing their four-year-old child who had been sleeping covered only in his blanket. When she did anyway, she was insulted by officers who restrained her with handcuffs.

    Armed police also forced the couple’s three other children to keep their hands up in the air, the NGO said.

    Supporters described the raid as an act of ‘intimidation’ and a violation of free speech but while officials have given no explanation for the raid, Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin accused Sihamedi of ‘condoning terrorism’ in a since deleted tweet.

    Darmanin has not provided any evidence to support that assertion.

    Up until the raid, Sihamedi had been a vociferous critic of Macron’s plans to clamp down on practice of Islam.

    In a number of speeches and statements made over the past few months, the French president has claimed Islam is in ‘crisis’ across the world and has pledged to introduce measures to crackdown on what he describes as ‘Islamic separatism’.

    While previous French leaders have implemented measures targeting Muslims, such as the ban on students wearing headscarves in school and the ban on face coverings, none in the modern era have directly criticised Islam as a religion.

    Macron and Islam

    Even before Macron’s declaration of the supposed ‘crisis’ within Islam, France has been cracking down on its Muslims.

    Interior Minister Darmanin has revealed that French authorities have shut down 73 Muslim establishments, including mosques, schools, shops, and coffee houses since the start of 2020.

    The government claims that these establishments either did not have the proper authorisation or that they encouraged ‘extremism’. French Muslims, however, counter that the French definition of extremism is so broad that just about any Muslim entity can fall under its scope.

    Those responding to the raid on Sihamedi’s residence said that the country was witnessing the start of a ‘witch hunt’ targeting Muslims.

    Hashtags sprang up on Twitter announcing their support for Sihamedi and BarakaCity with some activists calling for protests outside police stations on Thursday.

    Macron’s push against the country’s Muslim community comes as polls put him neck-and-neck with Marine Le Pen, the leader of the far-right National Rally party formerly known as the National Front.

    Le Pen has built her popularity around the promise of cracking down on the Muslim presence in France.

    Given Macron’s failure to repair the French economy, the current drive against the Muslim community could be about establishing his credentials on what is likely to be the key issue of the 2022 election.

    https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/is...-muslims-40602

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Because one is a citizen of the Republique first, and adherent to a religion second.
    Fair enough. It seems that France has finally adopted strict dress codes similar to Islamic countries.


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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    There's no republic without the people. The government shouldn't tell people how live their lives.
    Every government does that. Government set legislation to encourage certain behaviours and constrain others depending on what sort of society it wants. The people can change the government if they like.
    Last edited by Robert; 18th October 2020 at 13:02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Every government does that. Government set legislation to encourage certain behaviours and constrain others depending on what sort of society it wants. The people can change the government if they like.
    Nice to see another right winger like me supporting majoritarianism. People (the majority) can change the govt if they like. The minorities should follow the rules set by the majority.

    The happiness of the maximum people should be maximised.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Fair enough. It seems that France has finally adopted strict dress codes similar to Islamic countries.
    Only in public schools where one is not allowed to display prominent Christian iconography either. There is no headscarf ban outside schools.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Only in public schools where one is not allowed to display prominent Christian iconography either. There is no headscarf ban outside schools.
    Public schools are where impressionable children learn their codes of behaviour. Not that dissimilar to madrassas in Islamic countries I suppose which is why I drew the comparison.


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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Public schools are where impressionable children learn their codes of behaviour. Not that dissimilar to madrassas in Islamic countries I suppose which is why I drew the comparison.
    The Muslim student can put her headscarf on, the Sikh his turban and the Christian her crucifix as soon as she leaves the school gate.

    I am not saying I agree with the French policy - there were lads in my school class with turbans and British society did not collapse - but comparison to conservative Muslim nations seems egregious.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    The Muslim student can put her headscarf on, the Sikh his turban and the Christian her crucifix as soon as she leaves the school gate.

    I am not saying I agree with the French policy - there were lads in my school class with turbans and British society did not collapse - but comparison to conservative Muslim nations seems egregious.
    Well let' explore this. Which Muslim nations are we comparing with?


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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Well let' explore this. Which Muslim nations are we comparing with?
    I assumed you mean Saudi Arabia and Iran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Macron is correct. Muslims have wrecked havoc in Europe by carrying out numerous terror attacks. Not to forget that Muslims are also involved in crime throughout Europe.
    Back your statement with facts , or are you in cloud cuckoo land again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I assumed you mean Saudi Arabia and Iran.
    Those are certainly the most fundamentalist Muslim regimes when it comes to dress code, so I suppose them being first ones that come to mind is a good indicator of where France's dress code is heading.


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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    I tend to agree with Macron's remarks. Personally, I have no issues if people choose to follow a religion however, Muslims need to adapt to the country they live in and learn to abide by the rules of the country. Religion is a personal matter which should be kept personal.

    For example, if the Hijab is banned in France than so be it. Follow the rules. If you have problems with the rules of the country and are unable to follow these then relocate somewhere else. It's as simple as that. Why do Muslims in France (and other countries) choose to cause havoc and resort to violence and terrorism rather than living peacefully and adapting to the culture and country they have chosen to live in.
    MAJORITY of the muslims living in western countries are law obiding citizen's, but like in all other aspects of life you get the minority so please stop the over reaction

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manunited18 View Post
    Back your statement with facts , or are you in cloud cuckoo land again.
    Aliens carried out 7/7 attacks, aliens carried out London Bridge Attack, aliened carried out Brussels Airport attacks, and aliens carried out so many attacks throughout Europe.

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    The banning of niqab shouldn't be such a huge deal I think, as it isn't compulsory (though I still disagree with banning it with some caveats- I can understand if a shop owner wants you to remove it so you can be identified, and similar situations).

    Those of you who know me, know that I'm not a big fan of religious orthodoxy. And while I understand the rationale of not wanting hijab forced on girls (which is definitely done in at least some cases, either explicitly or implicitly) banning it (I think in schools and in public office?) takes away the choice element all together. The same goes for crosses, yarmalke, kippah, etc. Are things like turbans and topis banned too? If so, I disagree with that too.

    Secularism is the separation of religion and state, and no more. Going after religious freedom (unless it directly impacts others, such as gay rights, abortion, etc) is not a part of secularism at all, and France is basically the edgy-atheist kid of Europe at the moment. It's unlikely to change, however, but it should.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Aliens carried out 7/7 attacks, aliens carried out London Bridge Attack, aliened carried out Brussels Airport attacks, and aliens carried out so many attacks throughout Europe.
    Aliens must have nuked the Japs as well. Hard to imagine human beings could be so cold hearted to destroy every living being in two cities to win a war.


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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Aliens must have nuked the Japs as well. Hard to imagine human beings could be so cold hearted to destroy every living being in two cities to win a war.
    Cant believe you said that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manunited18 View Post
    MAJORITY of the muslims living in western countries are law obiding citizen's, but like in all other aspects of life you get the minority so please stop the over reaction
    Majority of the muslims living in western countries have failed to assimilate.




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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    Majority of the muslims living in western countries have failed to assimilate.
    Liar.

    Stick to Lahori facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Liar.

    Stick to Lahori facts.
    You can believe what you want but this is in fact. You thinking otherwise doesn't make it a lie.




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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    You can believe what you want but this is in fact. You thinking otherwise doesn't make it a lie.
    Evidence supporting your claim. Where is it?

    Look we all know you fled Pakistan, for obvious reasons, and are under investigation. This doesn't mean you hurl lies due to fustration and jealousy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Evidence supporting your claim. Where is it?

    Look we all know you fled Pakistan, for obvious reasons, and are under investigation. This doesn't mean you hurl lies due to fustration and jealousy.
    Lahore isn't part of Pakistan anymore? When did that happen?




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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    Lahore isn't part of Pakistan anymore? When did that happen?
    Who said it wasn't? Just saying, you don't live in Lahore. You can make all the claims you want, doesn't mean we believe you. Seeking asylum is never easy.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Cant believe you said that.
    Why not? I've said it before, not the first time.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Who said it wasn't? Just saying, you don't live in Lahore. You can make all the claims you want, doesn't mean we believe you. Seeking asylum is never easy.
    lol okay.




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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Why not? I've said it before, not the first time.
    You are free to say what you like.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    You are free to say what you like.
    No I'm not.


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