Opposition’s problem is that it ‘can't control ISI’ like other institutions, says PM Imran Khan


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    Opposition’s problem is that it ‘can't control ISI’ like other institutions, says PM Imran Khan

    Prime Minister Imran Khan on Friday said the opposition parties' real issue with the military was that unlike other institutions, they were unable to "control" the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) after the agency "found out" about their alleged corruption.

    Addressing a ceremony organised by the Insaf Lawyers Forum (ILF) in Islamabad, he said PML-N supremo and former prime minister Nawaz Sharif "fought with every army chief" because he wanted to turn the military into Punjab police.

    Nawaz in recent weeks has levelled serious allegations of political interference against the armed forces.

    "They (opposition parties) control all the institutions whose job it is to keep checks and balances, except one. They know the ISI is aware of all their theft. They try to control it and that's where the conflict starts," he added.

    Prime Minister Imran once again mocked Nawaz over his claim that ex-ISI chief Zaheerul Islam had asked him to resign as the prime minister, saying: "Why did he (Islam) say that? And why did you (Nawaz) silently hear that? Because Zaheerul Islam knew how much money you had stolen."

    Referring to what he termed Nawaz's "attacks" on the Pakistan Army, he said "if anyone is going around with India's agenda, it is the [opposition]."

    Also read: 'India gets happy when votes are stolen in Pakistan,' Maryam responds to PM's allegation against Nawaz

    He added that if the Pakistani military was weakened, the country would see similar turbulence as in other Muslim countries such as Libya, Syria and Yemen.

    "We are safe today because of the sacrifices rendered by our armed forces," the premier stressed.

    Imran said the reason he did not have any "problems" with the army and the military supported every agenda of his government was because of his clean record.

    He said if he too "started laundering money" out of the country, the ISI would find out about it before anyone else "because it is the world's top agency".

    'I am democracy'
    Prime Minister Imran said Nawaz's real cause was not democracy but protecting his financial interests.

    "I am democracy," he declared. "I was elected after bagging the most votes in Pakistan and won from five constituencies."

    Referring to the opposition's allegation of the vote having been stolen in the 2018 elections, the premier said if there had been rigging, his party would not need a coalition to form a government.

    He said the opposition was abusing all institutions to exert pressure to be given an NRO-like (National Reconciliation Ordinance) concession, adding that "the day they get an NRO would be the downfall of Pakistan."

    "You can do as many rallies as you want," he told the opposition, who have planned a series of anti-government protests under the Pakistan Democratic Movement banner in the coming weeks. "The moment you break the law, you will go straight to jail — and not to a VIP jail, but where the poor are sent."

    The prime minister said all the "employed" opposition politicians had united on one platform because "they consider themselves above the law" and "unanswerable".

    Referring to Nawaz's call to his supporters to take to the streets against the government, Imran said PML-N workers "will not come out" even if they are bribed with money and "keemay kay naan".

    The prime minister also scoffed at PML-N leader Mohammad Zubair comparing Nawaz's life abroad to the time spent in exile by Iranian revolutionary leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, saying while Khomeini was sent abroad on "gun-point", Nawaz had gone abroad after his party's repeated pleas regarding his health.

    "The Iranian public used to love Ayatollah Khomeini; when he left the world he had a small house ... he and his children didn't have properties worth billions in London."

    He said the opposition had tried to "blackmail" the government over the passage of legislation concerning the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) and now wanted to oust the government because the country was emerging out of crisis.

    On the occasion, the prime minister promised health cards for all lawyers and said the government would facilitate them in obtaining houses through the Naya Pakistan Housing Programme.

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1584125/op...-says-pm-imran


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    The Sharifs wanted all institutions to be loyal to them and not PK. The ISI thankfully stayed free of their malignant influence.

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    "They (opposition parties) control all the institutions whose job it is to keep checks and balances, except one. They know the ISI is aware of all their theft. They try to control it and that's where the conflict starts," he added.

    ISI is responsible for external intelligence. There is no way they should be investigating any corruption by politicians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    "They (opposition parties) control all the institutions whose job it is to keep checks and balances, except one. They know the ISI is aware of all their theft. They try to control it and that's where the conflict starts," he added.

    ISI is responsible for external intelligence. There is no way they should be investigating any corruption by politicians.
    Almost every intelligence agency in the world keeps an eye on politicians. It is their job to make sure that their leaders are not compromised like NS's 'secret' meeting with Jindal in Murree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    Almost every intelligence agency in the world keeps an eye on politicians. It is their job to make sure that their leaders are not compromised like NS's 'secret' meeting with Jindal in Murree.
    So for Pakistan, should that not be the IB? Or the FIA?

    I dont get why the ISI is involved in this. There job should be restricted to external activities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    So for Pakistan, should that not be the IB? Or the FIA?

    I dont get why the ISI is involved in this. There job should be restricted to external activities.
    It is very hard to specify domains of intelligence agencies due to the nature of their work as everything is interlinked. ISI also keeps an eye on external players and their activities in Pakistan.

    IB and FIA were already controlled by civilian leaders/politicians and were inherently compromised. IK is mentioning ISI (and by extension MI) because traitors like NS could not control them hence he had to secretly meet with the Indians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    "They (opposition parties) control all the institutions whose job it is to keep checks and balances, except one. They know the ISI is aware of all their theft. They try to control it and that's where the conflict starts," he added.

    ISI is responsible for external intelligence. There is no way they should be investigating any corruption by politicians.
    So whose job is it, when the government at the time controlled both NAB(remember what the then chairman of NAB told the SC when asked to investigate) and the FIA. Corruption is a national security issue and they have every right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    So whose job is it, when the government at the time controlled both NAB(remember what the then chairman of NAB told the SC when asked to investigate) and the FIA. Corruption is a national security issue and they have every right.
    It should be a domestic agency. Like in the US CIA is responsible for external intelligence gathering, and the FBI is responsible for domestic intelligence, including public corruption.

    So for Pakistan ISI should focus on external intelligence, like CIA, RAW, Mosad, MI6, etc. And another agency, whether its IB, FIA, NAB, needs to focus on public corruption. These agencies need to be empowered and made independent to investigate corruption.

    All while these agencies should be independent, they still need to report directly to either the PM of Pakistan or one of his/her ministers, regardless of who that person may be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    It should be a domestic agency. Like in the US CIA is responsible for external intelligence gathering, and the FBI is responsible for domestic intelligence, including public corruption.

    So for Pakistan ISI should focus on external intelligence, like CIA, RAW, Mosad, MI6, etc. And another agency, whether its IB, FIA, NAB, needs to focus on public corruption. These agencies need to be empowered and made independent to investigate corruption.

    All while these agencies should be independent, they still need to report directly to either the PM of Pakistan or one of his/her ministers, regardless of who that person may be.
    In theory you are right but in practice every institution is destroyed except the army and ISI. Until we get the institutions that are independent and effective, its the ISI that is saving PK from these crooks.

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    Bump. And now Imran Khan is trying to control a person by giving extension to Faiz and not letting the institution operate on its self.

    Apnay moo per joti


    "Life is Pain"
    ~House~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    Bump. And now Imran Khan is trying to control a person by giving extension to Faiz and not letting the institution operate on its self.

    Apnay moo per joti
    When the PPP and the Nooras looked to appoint the ISI chief- were they (A)concerned with the national security and wanted the best guy for the security situation at the time or (B) wanted a guy that allowed them loot the country freely and put the security of the country at risk? Take a wild guess

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    When the PPP and the Nooras looked to appoint the ISI chief- were they (A)concerned with the national security and wanted the best guy for the security situation at the time or (B) wanted a guy that allowed them loot the country freely and put the security of the country at risk? Take a wild guess
    Its about the principle. Do we take as IK doesn't have principles when he states any words?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    When the PPP and the Nooras looked to appoint the ISI chief- were they (A)concerned with the national security and wanted the best guy for the security situation at the time or (B) wanted a guy that allowed them loot the country freely and put the security of the country at risk? Take a wild guess
    you do know that ISI is an institution and not a single person?

    WHoever you choose as the head doesnt effect the national security(which doesnt even exist lol), because ISI is an institution. This is what Bajwa probably scolded Imran about that it doesnt really matter who becomes DG as the institution operates as a whole.

    For PM what matters is they have to choose someone who doesn't try to interfere with the politics and govt.

    Even Imran would be careful with bringing in a person who could help him to win the next elections.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Its about the principle. Do we take as IK doesn't have principles when he states any words?
    Imran is a liar. The title of amin and sadiq doesnt even apply to him now.

    Imran had said that he would make institutions strong and shouldn't revolve around one man. He has contradicted himself with this many times as he changes the man in power be it NAB, ISI or even PCB.

    The PCB constitution is one of the biggest jokes ever. Basically, only a BOG member can be made chairman. So what happens is that the Patron in chief can select any gully mohalla wala for chairman by making him a BOG member and letting the others know he should be voted for Chairman. If not, other BOG members could lose their position.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    you do know that ISI is an institution and not a single person?

    WHoever you choose as the head doesnt effect the national security(which doesnt even exist lol), because ISI is an institution. This is what Bajwa probably scolded Imran about that it doesnt really matter who becomes DG as the institution operates as a whole.

    For PM what matters is they have to choose someone who doesn't try to interfere with the politics and govt.

    Even Imran would be careful with bringing in a person who could help him to win the next elections.
    So we get to your main worry that IK might appoint someone who will help win the election and not who will keep PK safe. Scratch the surface and you get the same badniyaati every time. Its the reason why the appointed Hussain Haqqani, a guy that is actively working to have sanctions imposed on PK.
    If IK puts PK security at risk for an election victory he should be hanged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Its about the principle. Do we take as IK doesn't have principles when he states any words?
    The principle is simple, we have 2 treachous parties led by 2 mafia families who have robbed PK and have 95% + of their assets abroad, mostly in the name of front men, and they have been, are and will be blackmailed by Foreign Security agencies and they should be never allowed within 100 miles of national security.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    So we get to your main worry that IK might appoint someone who will help win the election and not who will keep PK safe. Scratch the surface and you get the same badniyaati every time. Its the reason why the appointed Hussain Haqqani, a guy that is actively working to have sanctions imposed on PK.
    If IK puts PK security at risk for an election victory he should be hanged.
    As usual you ignore the whole post.

    Isi when providing safety(which they dont) does it as an institute not by one individual. This is why coas did a meeting with his selected pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    The principle is simple, we have 2 treachous parties led by 2 mafia families who have robbed PK and have 95% + of their assets abroad, mostly in the name of front men, and they have been, are and will be blackmailed by Foreign Security agencies and they should be never allowed within 100 miles of national security.
    Meanwhile we have a govt in power whose campaigne was funded with corrupt money and its members who dont pay taxes


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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    Meanwhile we have a govt in power whose campaigne was funded with corrupt money and its members who dont pay taxes
    So why weren't these people prosecuted by NAB, an organisation whose head was appointed by AZ and NS? And if they have evaded taxes, why didn't the FBR prosecute them when NS was PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    Meanwhile we have a govt in power whose campaigne was funded with corrupt money and its members who dont pay taxes
    Those arguing that the ISI should be not controlled by the elected government are essentially saying that the ISI is above the people as they are above the elected representatives.

    All this talk about the Army and ISI being the only non-corrupt or working or efficient is hilarious. Their corruption is embedded into the system, where retiring generals are given huge land allotments etc. Also, their grabbing top positions in the corporate sector means that the corporate sector remains non-competitive and doesn't get FDI. Not to forget that their antics led to Pakistan becoming less than half 50 years ago. And that half is now powering ahead economically leaving Pakistan behind because that half now has a civilian leader who has made the Army subservient to her. Bangladesh's GDP in 2020 was $342 billion compared to Pakistan's $264 billion.
    Last edited by Napa; 16th October 2021 at 21:23.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    As usual you ignore the whole post.

    Isi when providing safety(which they dont) does it as an institute not by one individual. This is why coas did a meeting with his selected pm
    And you don't understand the basic point which is that never ever should anyone from the mafia parties be allowed to have any say on security matters. They are traitors to a person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    you do know that ISI is an institution and not a single person?

    WHoever you choose as the head doesnt effect the national security(which doesnt even exist lol), because ISI is an institution. This is what Bajwa probably scolded Imran about that it doesnt really matter who becomes DG as the institution operates as a whole.

    For PM what matters is they have to choose someone who doesn't try to interfere with the politics and govt.

    Even Imran would be careful with bringing in a person who could help him to win the next elections.
    Bajwa took an extension himself, he is the last person who should be mentioning that it doesn't really matter who becomes head, and institution operates as whole. I hope IK said that too him, if he was "scolded" as you say.

    All the people who talk about civilian supremacy should be supporting him, but you can see statements from PML N, PPP, Diesel, where they are criticizing him for trying to choose the replacement or extend Faiz. Hopefully Pakistanis can see them as the two faced liars that they are.

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    Things were building up. Sources have confirmed that it was back in July this year that army chief Gen Qamar Bajwa had asked Prime Minister Imran Khan that he needed to make transfers and postings and Lt Gen Faiz Hameed would have to move out of the ISI as a routine. The PM had deferred the decision. The army chief raised the topic again in August and September and both times the PM said he would discuss the issue soon. In October, Gen Bajwa told the PM he could not wait much longer as three lieutenant generals were retiring and he had to order the transfers. Matters subsequently escalated into the events of the last 10 days. The stand-off continues.
    https://www.dawn.com/news/1652312

    IK was wrong in delaying, but this type of situation can be avoided, by having a retired Army General, Navy Admiral, or Air Force Marshall as the head of ISI. A retired military officer is a civilian, however the establishment should still be ok with the choice since this person will have served 35 years in the military.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    And you don't understand the basic point which is that never ever should anyone from the mafia parties be allowed to have any say on security matters. They are traitors to a person.
    so the elected pm shouldnt select isi chief. Logic and this guys says i dont understand


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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    so the elected pm shouldnt select isi chief. Logic and this guys says i dont understand
    So if Maryam is PM should she select the ISI chief. If the answer is yes, then never never never.

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    If ISI is the most powerful org in Pakistan then how come they allow others to pick them

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