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  1. #1
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    Its time to prefer the likes of Mohammad Musa over Mohammad Amir

    I saw Musa practising in a warm up match i went to. He looked the most focussed and eager to train hard, despite knowing he would be carrying the drinks for most of the tour. With him, i see a young player eager to improve and get a chance to wear the star with pride.

    Whilst, on the other hand a 30 year old has-been in Amir with more ability, but who from the looks of it is was high-fiving and having a good laugh with some of the assistant coaches during the practice session.

    The time is right in my opinion to give young players like Musa with fire in their belly a chance.

  2. #2
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    Musa gets a lot of hate on here but he is willing to bend his back, work hard and improve. He has the right attitude and deserves to be persevered with.

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    Fully agree. I want Musa to work on his batting. Not sure if any of the coaches or player management can spot it, but he has good hand-eye with the bat and like you said has the fire in his belly. If a little work can be done on him, his utility will double as a number 9 bowler.

    A lot of people talk about his height, but Sam Curran is more or less the same size. Yes it puts him at a disadvantage but there are skills he can learn to compensate for it, and especially so in limited overs. It comes down to work ethic, and what he wants from himself and his career.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Fully agree. I want Musa to work on his batting. Not sure if any of the coaches or player management can spot it, but he has good hand-eye with the bat and like you said has the fire in his belly. If a little work can be done on him, his utility will double as a number 9 bowler.

    A lot of people talk about his height, but Sam Curran is more or less the same size. Yes it puts him at a disadvantage but there are skills he can learn to compensate for it, and especially so in limited overs. It comes down to work ethic, and what he wants from himself and his career.
    He has natural hitting ability with the bat and his a hard worker. Could even become a no 7/8 limited overs batsman. In terms of his height, yes he is short but i seen him swing it around corners and ofcourse he has pace and aggression. His a matchwinner in my opinion.

  5. #5
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    Amir bowling right handed would probably win you more games than Musa Khan ever will, regardless of his fantastic attitude. Having said that, neither should have a future in the Pakistan cricket team.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loralai View Post
    Musa gets a lot of hate on here but he is willing to bend his back, work hard and improve. He has the right attitude and deserves to be persevered with.
    The hate is because of his performance. Definitely with someone like him who wants to work hard, let him work hard and prove in domestic before selecting him. His selection in the national squad is a waste of space at the moment.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    Amir bowling right handed would probably win you more games than Musa Khan ever will, regardless of his fantastic attitude. Having said that, neither should have a future in the Pakistan cricket team.
    Funny because even left handed Amir was so much worse than Musa in the National T20 Cup.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Fully agree. I want Musa to work on his batting. Not sure if any of the coaches or player management can spot it, but he has good hand-eye with the bat and like you said has the fire in his belly. If a little work can be done on him, his utility will double as a number 9 bowler.

    A lot of people talk about his height, but Sam Curran is more or less the same size. Yes it puts him at a disadvantage but there are skills he can learn to compensate for it, and especially so in limited overs. It comes down to work ethic, and what he wants from himself and his career.
    Sam Curran is at least 2 inches taller than Musa Khan. Musa would have to work astronomically hard to overcome the massive disadvantage his height places on his ability to control the scoring rate off his bowling.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    Amir bowling right handed would probably win you more games than Musa Khan ever will, regardless of his fantastic attitude. Having said that, neither should have a future in the Pakistan cricket team.
    ...is the right answer. Neither of them should be in the team. Amir is just a medium pace bowler these days, and Musa just gets a phainty every time he comes up against proper batsmen.


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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    Funny because even left handed Amir was so much worse than Musa in the National T20 Cup.
    Alright maybe I was exaggerating But yeah look, I like Musa's attitude and he's got good pace, I just don't think he's worth the investment of being included in just about every squad and touring party. The boy needs to learn the art of bowling in first class cricket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    Alright maybe I was exaggerating But yeah look, I like Musa's attitude and he's got good pace, I just don't think he's worth the investment of being included in just about every squad and touring party. The boy needs to learn the art of bowling in first class cricket.
    Agreed.

    Although I don't think his height will really hold him too far back. Obviously it would be nicer for him to be taller, the reason he isn't a good bowler right now isn't because he's short, it's because he doesn't have good control over his seam position, meaning he can't swing the ball or get it to nip off the seam consistently. If he can get that seam upright, and bowl on average between 140-145, he can be a handful. Still though I don't think he'll ever be a mainstay in the Pakistan team, could be a useful reserve and a good domestic player though, which are also important.

  12. #12
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    While Muhammad Musa is no world beater and havent shown anything extraordinary as of now however, it really surprises me how much criticism some 20-21 year old players get. I still remember how Musa was being hyped after his 3 wicket match against Indian in U19 and just because he couldnt perform upto the expectations of some in his limited career he is criticized like no tmw.

    I guess we fans need to calm down with regards to hyping players and then suddenly putting them down to dust.

  13. #13
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    Why can i ask musa gets special treatment and has been fast tracked into the team?

    What has he ever done to deserve such special priviledge?

    Ive got no personal issues with the lad but throwing him in before hes ready is just gonna hamper his development not make him better

    He needs to earn his spurs otherwise he will be subject to criticism

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    While Muhammad Musa is no world beater and havent shown anything extraordinary as of now however, it really surprises me how much criticism some 20-21 year old players get. I still remember how Musa was being hyped after his 3 wicket match against Indian in U19 and just because he couldnt perform upto the expectations of some in his limited career he is criticized like no tmw.

    I guess we fans need to calm down with regards to hyping players and then suddenly putting them down to dust.
    Rauf, Husnain and Naseem are also not finished article, but they have a bit more potential than Musa. They should be ahead in the queue for international spots.


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    even a lazy fat 50 year old Amir in his sleep is better than young, eager Musa

    One was suppose to be Wasim or an ATG if he worked hard but with Musa first thing people said was become an allrounder to become a regular member of the team

    that tells the difference in class (coming from an Amir hater...)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    While Muhammad Musa is no world beater and havent shown anything extraordinary as of now however, it really surprises me how much criticism some 20-21 year old players get. I still remember how Musa was being hyped after his 3 wicket match against Indian in U19 and just because he couldnt perform upto the expectations of some in his limited career he is criticized like no tmw.

    I guess we fans need to calm down with regards to hyping players and then suddenly putting them down to dust.
    what's the point of being a fan if you cant be a hater

    I would literally stop watching sports in general if I am not allowed to hate on players I dislike

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    Amir bowling right handed would probably win you more games than Musa Khan ever will, regardless of his fantastic attitude. Having said that, neither should have a future in the Pakistan cricket team.
    Amir has declined massively and bowls around 80 mph even shahid afridi would bowl faster than that

  18. #18
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    Good to see amir dropped for the Zimbabwe series he should call it a day his attitude is horrible

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    what's the point of being a fan if you cant be a hater

    I would literally stop watching sports in general if I am not allowed to hate on players I dislike
    Fair enough.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Rauf, Husnain and Naseem are also not finished article, but they have a bit more potential than Musa. They should be ahead in the queue for international spots.
    Naseem is recovering from an injury while Hasnain and Rauf are already in the probables.


  21. #21
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    For t20s you can get away with anyone , in ODis and tests you need tall pacemen.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    While Muhammad Musa is no world beater and havent shown anything extraordinary as of now however, it really surprises me how much criticism some 20-21 year old players get. I still remember how Musa was being hyped after his 3 wicket match against Indian in U19 and just because he couldnt perform upto the expectations of some in his limited career he is criticized like no tmw.

    I guess we fans need to calm down with regards to hyping players and then suddenly putting them down to dust.
    You are right. If a player performs well they get over hyped. But also if a player performs badly, they are labelled as rubbish or another name.

    I don't think our fans and Pakistan management in general know how to develop players correctly.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sher Khan View Post
    I saw Musa practising in a warm up match i went to. He looked the most focussed and eager to train hard, despite knowing he would be carrying the drinks for most of the tour. With him, i see a young player eager to improve and get a chance to wear the star with pride.

    Whilst, on the other hand a 30 year old has-been in Amir with more ability, but who from the looks of it is was high-fiving and having a good laugh with some of the assistant coaches during the practice session.

    The time is right in my opinion to give young players like Musa with fire in their belly a chance.
    Sadly it does not matter how hard Musa trains, he is still going to be 5'7 tall and as unsuited to being a Test or ODI fast bowler as if he was a double amputee in a wheelchair.

    Somebody needs to take him to one side and tell him that he is living in a fantasy world if he thinks he can be an international fast bowler, but that his attitude is great and that he should try to become a spinner or a wicketkeeper instead.

  24. #24
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    I don't think Musa and Hasnain are on that level yet. They both are bound to be major components of Pakistan's pace-attack in the future. But right now I think Shaheen, Amir, Wahab and Haris Rauf are our best pacers in limited-overs cricket, and should be the first-choice picks.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Sadly it does not matter how hard Musa trains, he is still going to be 5'7 tall and as unsuited to being a Test or ODI fast bowler as if he was a double amputee in a wheelchair.

    Somebody needs to take him to one side and tell him that he is living in a fantasy world if he thinks he can be an international fast bowler, but that his attitude is great and that he should try to become a spinner or a wicketkeeper instead.
    This is a very reductive take. There are plenty of examples of short fast-bowlers who have succeeded on the international level such as; Malinga (5'7), Steyn (5'10), Kemar Raoch (5'6), Darren Gough (5'11), Ryan Harris (5'11), Shami (5'11)

    If you are one-dimensional you will fail no matter how tall you are. But to say short height is akin to a death sentence for a fast-bowler is just not true. If anything, it allows bowlers a chance to rely on factors. And bowlers with slingy actions are no less easier to face than those who generate alot of bounce. Musa needs to refine his bowling a little bit but that doesn't change what everyone already knows; that he is bound to have a bright future for Pakistan
    Last edited by RedwoodOriginal; 20th October 2020 at 05:31.

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    I think it's time to close the door on Amir and while I think Musa is far from international material at the current moment, it's best to give him a few years before writing him off completely

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    This is a very reductive take. There are plenty of examples of short fast-bowlers who have succeeded on the international level such as; Malinga (5'7), Steyn (5'10), Kemar Raoch (5'6), Darren Gough (5'11), Ryan Harris (5'11), Shami (5'11)

    If you are one-dimensional you will fail no matter how tall you are. But to say short height is akin to a death sentence for a fast-bowler is just not true. If anything, it allows bowlers a chance to rely on factors. And bowlers with slingy actions are no less easier to face than those who generate alot of bounce. Musa needs to refine his bowling a little bit but that doesn't change what everyone already knows; that he is bound to have a bright future for Pakistan
    You are literally saying that two men in world history in the last 60 years have made a successful bowling career at such a low height. And Musa is so good that he could be a third?

  28. #28
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    Cant write Amir off, still offers a lot more than some pacers we have. The emergence of so many new players is best for Amir as he can mobilise some strength till the World Cup I suppose.

    Said that he doesnít seem to get past the mid 130ís and lost his swing ability it seems lately.

  29. #29
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    Musa right now is a spray gun who blindly runs in, bends his back, but all of this is pointless if you don't pick up wickets

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    You are literally saying that two men in world history in the last 60 years have made a successful bowling career at such a low height. And Musa is so good that he could be a third?
    How do you know he's not? Seems awfully premature to write off someone who is 20 years old and has alot of potential.

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    Agree but both Musa and Hasnain needs to improve their control.....first class will definitely help.....Hasnain was quite unlucky in national t20.....Musa showed improvement but in a clutch game he comes under pressure and sprays it... He needs to really work hard till he is in favour of PCB selectors......bcoz if he dont then he would be replaced and discarded for life

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    Wow the consensus on Amir has really changed on this Forum. During the world cup it was completely different. In my opinion it's an overreaction, given his limited overs exploits you have to give him some games before saying he's done

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    Musa has a lot of work to do before we start saying he should start over Amir. I am annoyed at Amir. But I have no doubt he is a better bowler than Musa right now.

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    Amir has regressed quite a bit and at times just fails to turn up. Just compare his performance in the NT20 to Shaheen's.
    Personally however I dont think Musa is good enough for international cricket at this stage (and honestly I'm not sure if he ever will be). He needs to work hard in domestic cricket. He should not have been selected for the Zimbabwe tour.

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    If you want to replace Aamir with someone in future, better option will be Akif Javed.

    The guy is not a finished article yet. But he has higher ceiling than Musa.

    If groomed properly, he will be a better investment.

    It will be very difficult for Musa to be a top bowler.
    Last edited by Kaddy; 20th October 2020 at 17:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    This is a very reductive take. There are plenty of examples of short fast-bowlers who have succeeded on the international level such as; Malinga (5'7), Steyn (5'10), Kemar Raoch (5'6), Darren Gough (5'11), Ryan Harris (5'11), Shami (5'11)

    If you are one-dimensional you will fail no matter how tall you are. But to say short height is akin to a death sentence for a fast-bowler is just not true. If anything, it allows bowlers a chance to rely on factors. And bowlers with slingy actions are no less easier to face than those who generate alot of bounce. Musa needs to refine his bowling a little bit but that doesn't change what everyone already knows; that he is bound to have a bright future for Pakistan
    It's not the height alone though. He would have to be lightning quick to be a threat at 5'6 or whatever he is, and he bowls in the 140's mostly, same as most other fast medium bowlers. 140's would still be okay if he can make the ball move around, but I haven't seen him do that either. Looks like another Bilawal Bhatti at best. Quite zippy, and can hit a few nice boundaries, but will probably concede more runswith the ball than he ever scores with the bat.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    It's not the height alone though. He would have to be lightning quick to be a threat at 5'6 or whatever he is, and he bowls in the 140's mostly, same as most other fast medium bowlers. 140's would still be okay if he can make the ball move around, but I haven't seen him do that either. Looks like another Bilawal Bhatti at best. Quite zippy, and can hit a few nice boundaries, but will probably concede more runswith the ball than he ever scores with the bat.
    Exactly he just seems to come on to the bat nicely And seems easy to hit around

    Hes very flat and straight Reminds me of mohd sami and we all know what happened to him

  38. #38
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    Mohammad Amir would never have played for another self respecting country. This board and fans gave him too much love for what he did. Ignoring the fact that he is a nothing bowler, he should never have had a second chance. It set a very bad precedent for others.

    Time to fully discard him and focus on the exciting pace prospects coming out of Pakistan.

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    Absolutely no comparison with Amir who was MoM in both Tests that PAK won in 2010 UK tour, before that was a crucial member of 2009 T20 WC win at the age of 17..... now his time is over and guy is more focused on his financials than toiling for PAK cricket - BUT, that doesnít mean he should be compared with anybody & everybody.

    Coming to Musa separately, guy has absolutely no future as fast bowler in longer games, probably not even for T20s. He is not fast enough for his height, not even remotely close to the skill of Mo Amir at that age, and donít think he has the bowling intelligence to out fox batsmen either - whenever I have seen, itís gun barrel straight & almost like a net bowler giving batsmen practice. In T20, batsmen are always in a mad rush, therefore figures are often misleading there.

    His only bet to survive as a pro cricketer for 15-16 years career (May be as international as well for sometimes), is to improve batting to the level that he can bat at No. 6 in FC & at least No. 8 in ODI/Test and May be a pinch hitter in T20 - so, basically itís not Mo Amir rather he should be focusing to contest with Faheemís spot. At present, this guy Sohail Khan looks million bucks more than Musa, if we ignore his age...... Mo Amir still is several cloud above.

  40. #40
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    No doubt Musa is a good lad with good work ethics but he is not a international material unless he starts averaging 30-40 with bat...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    I don't think Musa and Hasnain are on that level yet. They both are bound to be major components of Pakistan's pace-attack in the future. But right now I think Shaheen, Amir, Wahab and Haris Rauf are our best pacers in limited-overs cricket, and should be the first-choice picks.
    Amir is passed it he shouldn't be in the squad he bowls as fast as shahid afridi and injury prone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaddy View Post
    If you want to replace Aamir with someone in future, better option will be Akif Javed.

    The guy is not a finished article yet. But he has higher ceiling than Musa.

    If groomed properly, he will be a better investment.

    It will be very difficult for Musa to be a top bowler.
    I think akif should play first class cricket then brought it after a full season he has a good future ahead of him

  43. #43
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    Amir doesnt have the swing or the speed anymore he was good at once but not no more we should invest in the future and get rid of players who are not willing to work hard

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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Amir doesnt have the swing or the speed anymore he was good at once but not no more we should invest in the future and get rid of players who are not willing to work hard
    Agreed. However, Musa Khan does not seem like a player worth investing in for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    While Muhammad Musa is no world beater and havent shown anything extraordinary as of now however, it really surprises me how much criticism some 20-21 year old players get. I still remember how Musa was being hyped after his 3 wicket match against Indian in U19 and just because he couldnt perform upto the expectations of some in his limited career he is criticized like no tmw.

    I guess we fans need to calm down with regards to hyping players and then suddenly putting them down to dust.
    Basically this.

    Always steer clear of the awaam that immediately hypes up young kids who have some great performances.

    They want them selected and given a chance, will always rant about selection policies and why the team xi is not comprised of all debutants or young people.

    Because this is the crowd that also immediately starts abusing such young people when they perform poorly at the international level.

    They're not the kind that understand how huge is the difference between u19/domestic and the international level.

    And that you need consistent chances and backing to make it at the international level. Or to be properly judged.

    Musa Khan is a youngster, who was once hyped, but is now out of favor among this "fill up 11 players with debutants" crowd.

    There's no doubt odds are stacked against Musa because of his height.

    Let's see.

  46. #46
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    Akif Javed>>>>>>>>>>>>> Musa Khan

    Invest in hm. He might be a bit slower than Musa but he can move the ball both ways and is over 6 feets

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Akif Javed>>>>>>>>>>>>> Musa Khan

    Invest in hm. He might be a bit slower than Musa but he can move the ball both ways and is over 6 feets
    Man let him perform in domestics first. Heís barely played first class. People want every other kid fast tracked to the national team. This applies to Musa too but he is someone who can bowl bouncers and slower ones so no issue giving him a few T20s.

    Akif is real class though. Rather than wasting his time against Zimbabwe, let him develop his game in First Class cricket!

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Man let him perform in domestics first. He’s barely played first class. People want every other kid fast tracked to the national team. This applies to Musa too but he is someone who can bowl bouncers and slower ones so no issue giving him a few T20s.

    Akif is real class though. Rather than wasting his time against Zimbabwe, let him develop his game in First Class cricket!
    Invest in him doesn't mean playing for Pakistan. There is a place called NHPC

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Man let him perform in domestics first. He’s barely played first class. People want every other kid fast tracked to the national team. This applies to Musa too but he is someone who can bowl bouncers and slower ones so no issue giving him a few T20s.

    Akif is real class though. Rather than wasting his time against Zimbabwe, let him develop his game in First Class cricket!
    Currently he is injured

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    Agreed. However, Musa Khan does not seem like a player worth investing in for the future.
    Yes thats true but with hardwork we never know what can happen

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Man let him perform in domestics first. He’s barely played first class. People want every other kid fast tracked to the national team. This applies to Musa too but he is someone who can bowl bouncers and slower ones so no issue giving him a few T20s.

    Akif is real class though. Rather than wasting his time against Zimbabwe, let him develop his game in First Class cricket!
    Yes defo he needs a solid season off first class unlucky that hes injured for this touanement definitely one for the future


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