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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Assuming what you are saying is true, then a bit of self-introspection by Muslims to find why this is happening would probably help a bit. Why is everyone, as you say, against Muslims?
    So its ok as long as there is reason? Next you ll say the jews brought it on themselves too during the war

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post
    When the late Mr Flloyd was killed - what emerged was a call to action. There was looting and crime but the overwhelming message was of ‘enough’ and it unified all people in America to really self reflect. Not all but I’d like to think it was for the majority.

    I don’t however recall Black people beheading the police.

    Come to think of it, I cannot recall a LGBT individual beheading anyone because they were on the receiving end of an insult.

    See the difference?
    Not that the two situations are remotely comparable but policemen were shot dead in Dallas a few year ago in a BLM protest after another incident similar to George Floyd. Even right now millions of dollars of business were destroyed and burnt. But thatís fine. Your example is totally wrong.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Where was this uproar and holier than thou attitude when two Arab women were stabbed in Paris last week?


    That is as worthy of condemnation as the beheading of the school teacher.

    The biggest problem with all the religious and political games being played out is that it is the innocents that are getting caught in the crossfire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post
    When the late Mr Flloyd was killed - what emerged was a call to action. There was looting and crime but the overwhelming message was of ‘enough’ and it unified all people in America to really self reflect. Not all but I’d like to think it was for the majority.

    I don’t however recall Black people beheading the police.

    Come to think of it, I cannot recall a LGBT individual beheading anyone because they were on the receiving end of an insult.

    See the difference?
    I dont know how to answer this post because it is pretty much wrong on every level and i hope you read it again and see the tens of problems with it. I'll try to make one simple point though, nobody is justifying the beheadings, catch the killer and punish him. Just stop with humiliating the Islamic faith because it is worse for muslims than mocking holocaust victims or victims of racial abuse.

  5. #85
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    They are perfectly comparable but unsurprisingly it’s lost on you. The bigger picture that emerged was one of self reflection by all - black people, white people etc. And not just confined to the states but many countries.

    What has emerged here? Or after the teacher was beheaded some time back? Do you see the same solidarity with Muslims that we saw with black people in America some time back?

    People, from all walks of life, have done terrible things and no ‘group’ has a monopoly on this. And when there is a real sense of wrongdoing - people do speak up. When Trump tried to push through with the ‘Muslim ban’ on immigration it was met with a loud voice of ‘no’ from Muslim and non Muslim folks and that was great to see.

    The terrible situation in Palestine similarly gets a unified voice (it’s a shame it doesn’t translate into tangible action but that’s another debate).

    But there is no justification, or parallel for what has happened here. And there is subsequently no unified opposition to this from people of different backgrounds. That’s the difference.

  6. #86
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    France has raised the security alert for French territory to the highest level after the knife attack in the city of Nice, Prime Minister Jean Castex said.

    Castex also told French National Assembly that the government’s response to the attack would be firm and implacable.

    Streets were sealed at the site of the attack and near the Notre Dame church, Al Jazeera’s David Chater reported from Nice.

    “Armed police are still here despite catching the attacker 12 minutes later. The feeling here is still one of great shock.”

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...hurt-live-news

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post
    They are perfectly comparable but unsurprisingly it’s lost on you. The bigger picture that emerged was one of self reflection by all - black people, white people etc. And not just confined to the states but many countries.

    What has emerged here? Or after the teacher was beheaded some time back? Do you see the same solidarity with Muslims that we saw with black people in America some time back?

    People, from all walks of life, have done terrible things and no ‘group’ has a monopoly on this. And when there is a real sense of wrongdoing - people do speak up. When Trump tried to push through with the ‘Muslim ban’ on immigration it was met with a loud voice of ‘no’ from Muslim and non Muslim folks and that was great to see.

    The terrible situation in Palestine similarly gets a unified voice (it’s a shame it doesn’t translate into tangible action but that’s another debate).

    But there is no justification, or parallel for what has happened here. And there is subsequently no unified opposition to this from people of different backgrounds. That’s the difference.
    You are in a world of your own and talking to yourself. Who is asking anyone to support the beheading?

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    I dont know how to answer this post because it is pretty much wrong on every level and i hope you read it again and see the tens of problems with it. I'll try to make one simple point though, nobody is justifying the beheadings, catch the killer and punish him. Just stop with humiliating the Islamic faith because it is worse for muslims than mocking holocaust victims or victims of racial abuse.
    1) I haven’t humiliated any faith or individual so choose your words carefully

    2) What gives Muslims a special privilege over people from other faiths? Or values?

    Just because an aspect of ones faith is considered important to an individual group doesn’t mean others have to hold it in the same regard or value.

    To be clear, I believe that what CH and subsequent action by the French president was not appropriate and should not have been done, only because it’s a tasteless act. We are, globally, wrestling with a pandemic - the last thing we need is a course of action that risks an undesirable outcome.

    But creating a line in the sand and expecting everyone to respect it or else is equally frivolous.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    France was peaceful until the locals were toeing with what some radical Muslims wanted. CH exposed the underlying anger and fanaticism in the radical Muslim population.
    Yes, blame the victim. There were radical muslims and hebdo only exposed them by publishing those cartoons. Also Macron displayed the cartoons because he wanted to weed out the radical muslims.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post

    2) What gives Muslims a special privilege over people from other faiths? Or values?
    Muslims should not have any special privilege, but what is the need, or the value in publishing derogatory images about someone's faith? Why not do something constructive? the death of these people is as much on macron and charlie hebdo as it is on the killer.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Muslims should not have any special privilege, but what is the need, or the value in publishing derogatory images about someone's faith? Why not do something constructive? the death of these people is as much on macron and charlie hebdo as it is on the killer.
    Would you use a similar logic when mob lynchings are done by cow vigilantes?

    Why did someone hurt the Hindu sentiments by killing a cow?

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Muslims should not have any special privilege, but what is the need, or the value in publishing derogatory images about someone's faith? Why not do something constructive? the death of these people is as much on macron and charlie hebdo as it is on the killer.
    No it is not. It is firmly with the vile individual(s) and those that may have had a hand in leading g to this outcome.

    I am not Muslim, but you can hurl all manner of abuse at me for my faith, family - anything - verbal, pictures - you name it. But I would never raise a hand in violence because of it. Because I choose not to act that way. That’s the difference.

  13. #93
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    Church sexton had throat slit while preparing for mass, police say

    The suspect in the Nice attack entered the Notre Dame church at around 9am and slit the throat of the sexton, partially beheaded an elderly woman, and badly wounded a third woman, according to a police source.

    The sexton and the elderly woman died on the spot.

    The third woman managed to make it out of the church into a nearby cafe, but she died from her wounds, Nice mayor Christian Estrosi told reporters at the scene.
    None of the victims has so far been named.

    ==

    Man arrested after preparing to carry out 'similar attack to Nice' - French media reports

    Police have arrested a suspect in Sartrouville who said they planned to carry out an attack similar to the killings in Nice, Le Parisien reports.

    The man had told his father he "wanted to do as in Nice" before leaving the home, the French news site added.
    The father reportedly warned the police who rushed to the scene.

    Officers are said to have been able to stop the suspect without incident while he was driving near the Saint-Martin church.

    One of the three victims 'escaped to a cafe before dying of their injuries'

    Sky's Europe correspondent Adam Parsons has provided a summary of the attack that took place this morning and how the three victims were killed.

    He said: "One person was killed in a way that was described as virtually beheaded and another person was killed in the church.

    "A third person suffered appalling wounds. They managed to escape to a cafe before dying there of their injuries.

    "Police shot the attacker and he has been apprehended.

    "France has been reeling from this and a subsequent attack that happened near Avignon.

    "Police shot a person dead there who had threatened them with a handgun."

    ==

    Pope says French people can 'respond to evil with good'

    The Pope has tweeted after the Vatican said he was praying for the victims of the attack.
    The pontiff said in a comment written in French: "I am close to the Catholic community of #Nice , in mourning after the attack which sowed death in a place of prayer and consolation. I pray for the victims, for their families and for the beloved French people, so that they can respond to evil with good."


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Would you use a similar logic when mob lynchings are done by cow vigilantes?

    Why did someone hurt the Hindu sentiments by killing a cow?
    Beef consumption and drawing derogatory images of a religion are not comparable. try again.

  15. #95
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    RIP... What gives them an idea of beheading someone though.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Would you use a similar logic when mob lynchings are done by cow vigilantes?

    Why did someone hurt the Hindu sentiments by killing a cow?
    Mob lynchings are a different level to individual acts. Mobs need mobilising and organising. It is difficult to legislate for one or two lunatics, but when you get organised mobs then the state is dealing with pre-meditated violence, and usually there will be ringleaders involved, sometimes backed at a high level.


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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post
    No it is not. It is firmly with the vile individual(s) and those that may have had a hand in leading g to this outcome.

    I am not Muslim, but you can hurl all manner of abuse at me for my faith, family - anything - verbal, pictures - you name it. But I would never raise a hand in violence because of it. Because I choose not to act that way. That’s the difference.
    I don't care what you are, so stop using this to glorify yourself. Both the action and the reaction is responsible for the outcome. If you ignore one, then you are part of the problem.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Muslims should not have any special privilege, but what is the need, or the value in publishing derogatory images about someone's faith? Why not do something constructive? the death of these people is as much on macron and charlie hebdo as it is on the killer.
    CH have made satirical cartoons on Jews and Christians as well. They are vile and tasteless and mostly should be ignored, condemned or at most legal action maybe taken against them.

    But to claim that there actions have led to radicals coming out and murdering people is beyond ridiculous.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Beef consumption and drawing derogatory images of a religion are not comparable. try again.
    Who decides that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldWarHorse View Post
    CH have made satirical cartoons on Jews and Christians as well. They are vile and tasteless and mostly should be ignored, condemned or at most legal action maybe taken against them.

    But to claim that there actions have led to radicals coming out and murdering people is beyond ridiculous.
    Theres plenty of white christians committing hate and murder and the less said about the killings and appartied going in occupied palestine by israeli jews so lets not make it out so called muslims only commit these sort of crimse


  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Who decides that?
    What do you think? Are both the same?

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldWarHorse View Post
    CH have made satirical cartoons on Jews and Christians as well. They are vile and tasteless and mostly should be ignored, condemned or at most legal action maybe taken against them.

    But to claim that there actions have led to radicals coming out and murdering people is beyond ridiculous.
    I agree, that they should be fought legally and I am not supporting the killing of innocents, as you are making it out to be.

    but to ignore the provocateur and focusing only on the ones who reacted violently, is missing the picture. The provocateur is more to blame here, as the state is supposed to be more mature than individual loonies.

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post
    1) I haven’t humiliated any faith or individual so choose your words carefully

    2) What gives Muslims a special privilege over people from other faiths? Or values?

    Just because an aspect of ones faith is considered important to an individual group doesn’t mean others have to hold it in the same regard or value
    By "you" i didnt mean you personally but people in general. I thought that is understood.

    We dont want our religion to be mocked and humiliated. Its plain and simple. Do it to the people who are fine with it. Rub the one you revere in mud for all we care. We are open to civil dialogue and critique. Moreover by mocking our faith in a world where Islamophobia is real, you are putting our lives at risk. Millions of muslims have been killed by western forces and terrorism alike in last 2 decades and wars have been waged in their lands. The hate against us is a real threat to our lives. You dont mock black people or LGBTQ or the holocaust, why concessions for them? Get out with your hypocrisy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Theres plenty of white christians committing hate and murder and the less said about the killings and appartied going in occupied palestine by israeli jews so lets not make it out so called muslims only commit these sort of crimse
    Iam not calling out just Muslims. I have equated an act such as this to the white supremacists' shooting incidents or cow lynchers earlier on this thread.
    But to shift the blame of these actions over to the instigators is what Iam disagreeing about.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    So? Just like there are Muslims who mocks Hinduism as urine drinkers, you have opposite side. But I can't fathom why some Muslims need constant validation. Why so much insecure about your faith that you need others opinion to justify it?
    Muslims arent nearly as hateful towards Hindus. Cow urine drinking remark isnt same as abusing a revered hindu figure or God. Please dont draw false parallels. And we don't need validation. Just telling you about the unlimited hatred in India for muslims.

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Muslims arent nearly as hateful towards Hindus. Cow urine drinking remark isnt same as abusing a revered hindu figure or God. Please dont draw false parallels. And we don't need validation. Just telling you about the unlimited hatred in India for muslims.
    That's where the issue comes. You justify actions based upon the frame of reference that you've set. But different people follow different set of frame of reference. Just because it is wrong in your perspective doesn't mean another person is forced to go by your definition.

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    That's where the issue comes. You justify actions based upon the frame of reference that you've set. But different people follow different set of frame of reference. Just because it is wrong in your perspective doesn't mean another person is forced to go by your definition.
    This is just ambiguous rhetoric.

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    That's where the issue comes. You justify actions based upon the frame of reference that you've set. But different people follow different set of frame of reference. Just because it is wrong in your perspective doesn't mean another person is forced to go by your definition.
    The framework was pretty much the same for all a century or two ago

    Likewise just because france have moved in a different direction doesnt mean they should expect the rest of the world to do the same

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Likewise just because france have moved in a different direction doesnt mean they should expect the rest of the world to do the same
    They're perfectly entitled to expect at least those who move into France to do so.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    This is just ambiguous rhetoric.
    Actually no. What is offensive for me, may not be offensive for you and vice versa. Many Muslims in the forum itself is so insecure that they have supported the killing. Even killing of people who had done nothing justifying it as repercussion.

    This is insecurities acting at its best and these kind of reactions are overcompensation of those insecurities.

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    The framework was pretty much the same for all a century or two ago

    Likewise just because france have moved in a different direction doesnt mean they should expect the rest of the world to do the same
    It shouldn't. But that doesn't make the law of the land irrelevant. Killing is a crime regardless of religion.

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    There are enough posts in this thread alone to prove that this is not as complete an isolated incident as most of us would like to believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    That's where the issue comes. You justify actions based upon the frame of reference that you've set. But different people follow different set of frame of reference. Just because it is wrong in your perspective doesn't mean another person is forced to go by your definition.
    No one is forcing non-Muslims to follow Muslim frame of reference, feel free to abuse your own religion and holy figures to your heart's content.


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    I think people lack comprehension skills. All criminal acts are wrong, that goes without saying. However, after finishing the formalities of condemning an act of violence we should look at the underlying issues which are causing such acts to take place.

    The underlying issue is that France through its policies and actions has tried to supress Muslims and Muslim practices. The ban in religious symbols is only enforced against Muslims. Sikhs can wear turbans, Jews can wear Kipahs, but God forbid if a Muslim woman wears a headscarf.

    When you discriminate against a whole group it is bound to have unfortunate consequences for everyone. I can only condemn this act based on what I know so far. However, things will only get worse until and unless France allows Muslims the same rights and freedom that other religions enjoy.


    Whenever Nawaz wins, he divides PMLN equally. He keeps PM for himself and gives L N to the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegitto1 View Post
    The underlying issue is that France through its policies and actions has tried to supress Muslims and Muslim practices. The ban in religious symbols is only enforced against Muslims. Sikhs can wear turbans, Jews can wear Kipahs, but God forbid if a Muslim woman wears a headscarf.
    Can't. All of these are banned.

    Rethink the rest of your post with this information.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Actually no. What is offensive for me, may not be offensive for you and vice versa.
    So? We should abuse everyone and everything? What is your point?

    Many Muslims in the forum itself is so insecure that they have supported the killing. Even killing of people who had done nothing justifying it as repercussion.

    This is insecurities acting at its best and these kind of reactions are overcompensation of those insecurities.
    Can you quote such posts from just 5 different muslim posters to prove your claim that "many" muslims justified beheadings?

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    Nice attacker was 21-year-old Tunisian national who entered France via Italy, a police source told Reuters.

    His identity is still under investigation.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Can't. All of these are banned.

    Rethink the rest of your post with this information.
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/50828320.cms

    Rethink your response


    Whenever Nawaz wins, he divides PMLN equally. He keeps PM for himself and gives L N to the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegitto1 View Post
    Woo - I stand corrected.

    Yeah, France are being weirdos if it isn't a uniform ban.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    By "you" i didnt mean you personally but people in general. I thought that is understood.

    We dont want our religion to be mocked and humiliated. Its plain and simple. Do it to the people who are fine with it. Rub the one you revere in mud for all we care. We are open to civil dialogue and critique. Moreover by mocking our faith in a world where Islamophobia is real, you are putting our lives at risk. Millions of muslims have been killed by western forces and terrorism alike in last 2 decades and wars have been waged in their lands. The hate against us is a real threat to our lives. You dont mock black people or LGBTQ or the holocaust, why concessions for them? Get out with your hypocrisy.
    Thatís where you are so very wrong. I donít elevate one type or person above others. And by extension nor do i apply any special concessions for them so the latter part of your post is way off mark.

    This is not about the wider topic of Islamaphobia but a specific part - an expectation that others must respect an aspect considered sacred to Muslims.

    Now this does not imply that I would deliberately seek to provoke, but why should non Muslims hold this with equal reverence under an Ďor elseí guise?

  41. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Woo - I stand corrected.

    Yeah, France are being weirdos if it isn't a uniform ban.
    Any religious symbol is banned in schools be it a hijab, a turban or a cross. It is a uniform ban across all religions.

    The full body veil is banned in public, but that law is there for any religious or non religious face covering. The hijab is perfectly legal even today. I haven't found anything in the French law that states otherwise.

  42. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post
    Thatís where you are so very wrong. I donít elevate one type or person above others. And by extension nor do i apply any special concessions for them so the latter part of your post is way off mark.
    So you are okay with people mocking black slave history and racism, jewish holocaust etc ? You are fine with people doing it?

    This is not about the wider topic of Islamaphobia but a specific part - an expectation that others must respect an aspect considered sacred to Muslims.
    It is about Islamophobia and hatred for muslims when you give concessions to one group of people who associate emotions with a particular part of their history, beliefs or identity and put the burden of taking all of the abuse on muslims in the name of a degenerate version of freedom of expression.

    Now this does not imply that I would deliberately seek to provoke
    Yes you are deliberately seeking to provoke muslims if you support the mockery of their religion even if you arent doing it directly.

    but why should non Muslims hold this with equal reverence under an Ďor elseí guise?
    Because we are asking you to and explaining to you that it hurts us. Go ahead and mock your own gods, your fathers and mothers because thats what you like to do. Dont drag us into your degeneracy because we dont want it.

  43. #123
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    What the heck is going on with the world? We are all going to kill each other. Nowhere in Islam does it say itís ok for an average citizen to kill someone, even if they insult the Holy Prophet (PBUH)

    Charging someone with such a crime, and punishing them if found guilty is the role of the governing authority. Not her aira ghera so called Muslim supposed to go around rendering judgments and punishments like that.

    Why donít our scholars speak up against this? Our religion does not need defending against such people. This will only lead to further killings and stoke the fire of hate for us .. which is why they do such things in the first place.

  44. #124
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    France will not give in to terror, Emmanuel Macron has said in a call for firmness and unity after the country’s latest terrorist attack left three people dead.

    Speaking outside the basilica in Nice where a man armed with a knife killed two women and a man the president said France was under attack.

    He announced that the number of soldiers patrolling the streets would more than double in the coming days and expressed his support for the Catholic community.

    The attack on Thursday morning came just 13 days after an 18-year-old man beheaded Samuel Paty, 47, a history teacher, outside his high school north-east of Paris. The professor had shown pupils caricatures, including one of the prophet Muhammad published in the satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo, during a discussion on freedom of speech.

    After Paty’s murder Macron promised to crack down on Islamist extremism, including shutting down mosques and other organisations accused of fomenting radicalism and violence. His comments sparked angry protests across the Muslim world; pictures of the president were burned and there were calls for a boycott of French goods.

    Macron also made reference on Thursday to the killing in 2016 of Father Jacques Hamel, a Catholic priest whose throat was cut by two men inside his Normandy church.

    “France is being attacked,” the president said. “Three of our compatriots died at the basilica in Nice today and at the same time a French consular site was attacked in Saudi Arabia.

    “I want to express, first and foremost, the nation’s support for the Catholics of France and elsewhere. After 2016, with the killing of Father Hamel, it is the Catholics of our country attacked once more, and just before All Saints Day. We are at their side in order that religion can be freely exercised in our country. People can believe or not believe, all religions can be practised, but today the nation is beside our Catholic compatriots.

    “My second message is to Nice and the people of Nice who have already suffered as a result of the Islamist terrorist folly. This is the third time terrorism has struck your city and you have the support and solidarity of the nation.

    “If we have been attacked once again, it is because of our values, our taste for freedom; the freedom to believe freely and not give in to any terror. We will give in to nothing. Today we have increased our security to deal with the terrorist threat.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ck-macron-says


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  45. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    It shouldn't. But that doesn't make the law of the land irrelevant. Killing is a crime regardless of religion.
    No ones lauded the killing on here Its a consequence of the direction france has gone in but no ones justifed it or said its acceptable

  46. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    France will not give in to terror, Emmanuel Macron has said in a call for firmness and unity after the country’s latest terrorist attack left three people dead.

    Speaking outside the basilica in Nice where a man armed with a knife killed two women and a man the president said France was under attack.

    He announced that the number of soldiers patrolling the streets would more than double in the coming days and expressed his support for the Catholic community.

    The attack on Thursday morning came just 13 days after an 18-year-old man beheaded Samuel Paty, 47, a history teacher, outside his high school north-east of Paris. The professor had shown pupils caricatures, including one of the prophet Muhammad published in the satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo, during a discussion on freedom of speech.

    After Paty’s murder Macron promised to crack down on Islamist extremism, including shutting down mosques and other organisations accused of fomenting radicalism and violence. His comments sparked angry protests across the Muslim world; pictures of the president were burned and there were calls for a boycott of French goods.

    Macron also made reference on Thursday to the killing in 2016 of Father Jacques Hamel, a Catholic priest whose throat was cut by two men inside his Normandy church.

    “France is being attacked,” the president said. “Three of our compatriots died at the basilica in Nice today and at the same time a French consular site was attacked in Saudi Arabia.

    “I want to express, first and foremost, the nation’s support for the Catholics of France and elsewhere. After 2016, with the killing of Father Hamel, it is the Catholics of our country attacked once more, and just before All Saints Day. We are at their side in order that religion can be freely exercised in our country. People can believe or not believe, all religions can be practised, but today the nation is beside our Catholic compatriots.

    “My second message is to Nice and the people of Nice who have already suffered as a result of the Islamist terrorist folly. This is the third time terrorism has struck your city and you have the support and solidarity of the nation.

    “If we have been attacked once again, it is because of our values, our taste for freedom; the freedom to believe freely and not give in to any terror. We will give in to nothing. Today we have increased our security to deal with the terrorist threat.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ck-macron-says
    Hes basically laying it on as us vs them

    Christians vs Muslims

  47. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    France will not give in to terror, Emmanuel Macron has said in a call for firmness and unity after the country’s latest terrorist attack left three people dead.

    Speaking outside the basilica in Nice where a man armed with a knife killed two women and a man the president said France was under attack.

    He announced that the number of soldiers patrolling the streets would more than double in the coming days and expressed his support for the Catholic community.

    The attack on Thursday morning came just 13 days after an 18-year-old man beheaded Samuel Paty, 47, a history teacher, outside his high school north-east of Paris. The professor had shown pupils caricatures, including one of the prophet Muhammad published in the satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo, during a discussion on freedom of speech.

    After Paty’s murder Macron promised to crack down on Islamist extremism, including shutting down mosques and other organisations accused of fomenting radicalism and violence. His comments sparked angry protests across the Muslim world; pictures of the president were burned and there were calls for a boycott of French goods.

    Macron also made reference on Thursday to the killing in 2016 of Father Jacques Hamel, a Catholic priest whose throat was cut by two men inside his Normandy church.

    “France is being attacked,” the president said. “Three of our compatriots died at the basilica in Nice today and at the same time a French consular site was attacked in Saudi Arabia.

    “I want to express, first and foremost, the nation’s support for the Catholics of France and elsewhere. After 2016, with the killing of Father Hamel, it is the Catholics of our country attacked once more, and just before All Saints Day. We are at their side in order that religion can be freely exercised in our country. People can believe or not believe, all religions can be practised, but today the nation is beside our Catholic compatriots.

    “My second message is to Nice and the people of Nice who have already suffered as a result of the Islamist terrorist folly. This is the third time terrorism has struck your city and you have the support and solidarity of the nation.

    “If we have been attacked once again, it is because of our values, our taste for freedom; the freedom to believe freely and not give in to any terror. We will give in to nothing. Today we have increased our security to deal with the terrorist threat.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ck-macron-says
    "France is being attacked"

    What a statement by an inept leader of epic proportions. Perfect for his election campaign though. The tried and tested formula. Same as modi and trump.

  48. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Hes basically laying it on as us vs them

    Christians vs Muslims
    Absolutely.

    He HAS made it into Christian vs Muslim today. Why didnt he say anything when muslim women were stabbed by our friendly white folks a few days ago?

  49. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegitto1 View Post
    I think people lack comprehension skills. All criminal acts are wrong, that goes without saying. However, after finishing the formalities of condemning an act of violence we should look at the underlying issues which are causing such acts to take place.

    The underlying issue is that France through its policies and actions has tried to supress Muslims and Muslim practices. The ban in religious symbols is only enforced against Muslims. Sikhs can wear turbans, Jews can wear Kipahs, but God forbid if a Muslim woman wears a headscarf.

    When you discriminate against a whole group it is bound to have unfortunate consequences for everyone. I can only condemn this act based on what I know so far. However, things will only get worse until and unless France allows Muslims the same rights and freedom that other religions enjoy.
    Can't. All of these are banned.

    Rethink the rest of your post with this information.
    All religious symbols and clothing are banned in public schools. There is no ban on religious clothing including the hijab in public places. The ban is only on the niqab or the burqa for security reasons as it should be. I don't know if the first poster is ignorant or deliberately trying to mislead. Maybe both as he clearly didn't read the article that he posted himself.
    Last edited by The Viper; 30th October 2020 at 00:02.

  50. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    The simple truth is that unlike other countries Macron, the PM, got involved. I think he thought this was an easy lay up to garner some support for his flailing political standing. Only a few years ago when he won the elections, his approval rating was 77% or something and now itís in 27-28% due to his botched handling of coronavirus. There were protests against his economic policies even before coronavirus took hold. So as a leader he is at an all time low. So he played the old, predictable and trusty right wing, fear mongering dog whistle which he had always accused one of his opponents (Marine Le Pen) of. But I think even he couldnít imagine it would have escalated like this.

    Now before anyone jumps at me; I put 100% Blame on the French muslim perpetrators and there is no doubt about that. no matter what macron says such a reaction is not justifiable and is frankly senseless. But I think what Iíve said is the reason why France in under target more.
    I saw Macron specifically brought Christianity into this. Even in a worst case scenario and for people justifying these heinous terrorism acts; Christianity was never in the conversation. Clear to see what Macron doing here. Esp with Another lockdown starting tomorrow, his popularity levels at an all time low.

  51. #131
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    Iran has condemned the knife attack as part of a “cycle of provocations and violence” that must stop.

    “We strongly condemn today’s terrorist attack in #Nice,” Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif tweeted in English.

    “This escalating vicious cycle-hate speech, provocations & violence-must be replaced by reason & sanity. We should recognize that radicalism breads more radicalism, and peace cannot be achieved with ugly provocation.”


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  52. #132
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  53. #133
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    Muslim scholars group denounce ‘heinous barbaric crime’

    A leading global Muslim group has condemned the deadly knife attack.

    In a statement, the International Union for Muslim Scholars (IUMS) based in Doha reiterated its call to fight any tendency towards violence.

    “The Union condemns and denounces this heinous barbaric crime, whoever does it, and whatever his motives and objectives,” the statement said.

    It said that such actions are forbidden and violate the principles and values of Islam.


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  54. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegitto1 View Post
    Unfortunately this is what happens when you push a group of people against the wall. France was forcing its will upon its Muslim population, there were two stabbings of Arab Muslims recently as well.

    Arab Muslims, and Muslims outside of India, tend to have more of a spine and do retaliate when someone attempts to oppress them. France should not expect French Muslims to sit back and be dictated to like their Indian counterparts.
    This is a desperately poor post.

  55. #135
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    French Muslims express ‘anger, sadness’ after Nice attack

    French Muslims reacted with horror at Thursday’s killing of three citizens in the seaside town of Nice, saying the crime is representative of neither their faith nor values.

    The attack, which took place inside a church, is the third of its kind in a little over a month and comes amid heightened tensions between Muslim countries and France.

    Several calls to boycott French goods were made last week after President Emmanuel Macron defended the right to caricature Prophet Muhammad.

    Macron’s comments came after the brutal killing of Samuel Paty, a middle school teacher who showed his pupils drawings of the prophet during a discussion on free speech.

    Yasser Louati, a French civil rights activist, said perpetrators of such crimes make no distinction between Muslims and Christians and subscribed to an ideology alien to Islam.

    “A woman was beheaded inside a church, this means these people have nothing to do with the sacred. There are no moral boundaries for them,” Louati told Al Jazeera.

    “About 750 people were killed in mosques across the world, why can’t we connect the dots and see that this ideology has been spreading that we lost so far the battle of ideas.

    “We deal with these attacks as if they were separate from one another when they are not.”

    ‘Sinking into madness’

    Idriss Sihamedi, an activist whose prominent Barakacity charity was dissolved by authorities on Wednesday over allegations it incited hatred, denounced the knife attack.

    “These attacks are serious, and the fact this is happening in places where people come to seek peace makes it doubly serious,” he said in a tweet.

    “Support for the families of the victims, but also for the faithful. France is sinking into madness, hatred, anger, and revenge.”

    Meanwhile, Faiza Ben Mohammed, a journalist, thought it useful to remind her huge social media following of the prophet’s championing of values such as peace and coexistence.

    “The Prophet Muhammad said: ‘Whoever harms a Jew or Christian will find in me his adversary on the Day of Judgement.”

    Fatima Ouassak of the parents’ syndicate Front de MŤres expressed sympathy for the victims’ families, saying it was important for people to stand in solidarity in these trying times.

    “[We are] against the hate-makers responsible for the infernal cycle and the climate of terror of which we are victims, let’s stick together! Solidarity, equality, justice and respect for human dignity.”

    This was also the case with Sebastien Abdelhamid, a television host, who expressed “anger and disgust” over what happened in Nice.

    “All my thoughts to the victims and their families. What barbarism … these people are not human… It is not possible #nice.”

    Others expressed outrage at how some members of the political establishment were attempting to exploit the event for political ends.

    Reacting to the news in a tweet, far-right leader Marine Le Pen said “the dramatic acceleration of Islamic acts of war against our fellow citizens … requires … a global response aimed at eradicating Islamism” from French soil.

    “You do realise she is using the attack in her political interest … before even showing her support for the victims,” said one Twitter user.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...ust-after-nice

  56. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    This is a desperately poor post.
    Agreed At best its very poorly worded

    Theres no justification for killings It does seem it is the result tho of the ongoing escalation of the cartoon depictions
    Last edited by Zaz; 30th October 2020 at 02:38.

  57. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    French Muslims express ‘anger, sadness’ after Nice attack
    Really feel for the innocent victims of this attack and also the muslims of France. They must be under so much pressure and the fear of retaliation would be growing with many right wingers trying to cash in at their expense. I pray that sanity prevails and this cycle of action-reaction (crazy reaction) breaks.

  58. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegitto1 View Post
    Unfortunately this is what happens when you push a group of people against the wall. France was forcing its will upon its Muslim population, there were two stabbings of Arab Muslims recently as well.

    Arab Muslims, and Muslims outside of India, tend to have more of a spine and do retaliate when someone attempts to oppress them. France should not expect French Muslims to sit back and be dictated to like their Indian counterparts.
    After a long time, I have navigated back to this forum to see the other side of the story with regards to the events in France, and I have to conclude that there is both good and bad news. Your post being bad of course, and the condemnations following it being better for the course.

    Europe has erred by letting in so many Muslims without filter. The Middle East is a breeding ground for extremists and the likes of Merkel and dare I say it - Jacinda - have no idea about ground realities. Australia and New Zealand are 10 or so years behind on this scale but we have already had a sneak peek with the Sydney attack not just a few years ago.


    Enzed.

  59. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshland View Post
    After a long time, I have navigated back to this forum to see the other side of the story with regards to the events in France, and I have to conclude that there is both good and bad news. Your post being bad of course, and the condemnations following it being better for the course.

    Europe has erred by letting in so many Muslims without filter. The Middle East is a breeding ground for extremists and the likes of Merkel and dare I say it - Jacinda - have no idea about ground realities. Australia and New Zealand are 10 or so years behind on this scale but we have already had a sneak peek with the Sydney attack not just a few years ago.
    Add your views to the bad.

    Youíve just peddled a racist trope.

    Judge each person individually.

    Vetting is important.

    What are these ground realities you speak of?

  60. #140
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    France does seem to have brought in the worst kinds of Muslims from all over the world. There are good and bad in all groups but in France it's disproportionately the former.

    Apparently this guy only arrived a few days ago from Tunisia. Why are these people going to a country if they don't agree with the core values of that country?

    You can argue that the cartoons are morally questionable as their only purpose is to provoke and **** off Muslims. That still doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to make the cartoons. But the people killed here weren't even involved here. It's just random senseless killing.

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    France does seem to have brought in the worst kinds of Muslims from all over the world. There are good and bad in all groups but in France it's disproportionately the former.

    Apparently this guy only arrived a few days ago from Tunisia. Why are these people going to a country if they don't agree with the core values of that country?

    You can argue that the cartoons are morally questionable as their only purpose is to provoke and **** off Muslims. That still doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to make the cartoons. But the people killed here weren't even involved here. It's just random senseless killing.
    What do you mean by the worst kind of Muslims?

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    This is outrageous behaviour from these extremists. Religion and religious faith should be just a guidance in your life and not be for complete reliance for your day to day activities.

    If god had this bias for one religion then every Muslim everywhere will be richest person with all good things happening to them only. itís the hard work and perseverance that pays. Sooner they realise this the better for their own good.

    If only showing portraits can cause such violence, france or any country has every right to uphold their freedom of speech and rights.
    No religion can impose on another or expect others to act in certain way.

    If these extremists canít deal with it then just scoot off.

  63. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by miandadrules View Post
    What do you mean by the worst kind of Muslims?
    Generally as all round people. Education, long term career prospects, how they will treat the people of the country they are going to, easily getting triggered, getting way too serious about religion, etc.

  64. #144
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    Surely a person would have to be mentally ill to do something like that to other people. Religion or politics just gives them some kind of personal justification or reasoning for their insanity.

  65. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post




    “France is being attacked,” the president said. “Three of our compatriots died at the basilica in Nice today and at the same time a French consular site was attacked in Saudi Arabia.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ck-macron-says
    He talked about the attack in Nice as well as the one in Saudi but why did he leave out terror incident that happened in Avignon ?

    Also no statement of solidarity for the community threatened in Avignon?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1420399.html

  66. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    Generally as all round people. Education, long term career prospects, how they will treat the people of the country they are going to, easily getting triggered, getting way too serious about religion, etc.
    And what data are you basing this on?


    Better luck next time

  67. #147
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    France attack: Attacker arrived from Tunisia days ago

    The man who stabbed two women and a man to death in a church in France arrived from Tunisia days ago, officials say.

    The suspect, 21, had an Italian Red Cross document, issued after he arrived by a migrant boat to Italy's Lampedusa island last month. He was shot by police and is in a critical condition.

    One of the victims of Thursday's attack at the Notre-Dame basilica in the city of Nice was "virtually beheaded".

    President Emmanuel Macron said it was an "Islamist terrorist attack".

    Mr Macron said the number of soldiers being deployed to protect public places - such as churches and schools - would rise from 3,000 to 7,000. The country's security alert has been raised to the highest level.

    Thursday's stabbings have echoes of another attack earlier this month near a school north-west of Paris. Samuel Paty, a teacher, was beheaded days after showing controversial cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad to some of his pupils.

    That murder has heightened tensions in France. Mr Macron's defence of the right to publish the cartoons and the government's attempts to crack down on radical Islam have angered Turkey and other Muslim-majority countries.

    The suspect in the Nice attack was heard repeatedly shouting "Allahu Akbar" (God is greatest) before being shot by police.

    Anti-terror prosecutors have opened an investigation, and France has raised its national security alert to its highest level.

    A Koran, two telephones and a 30cm (12-inch) knife were found on the attacker, said French chief anti-terrorist prosecutor Jean-FranÁois Ricard.

    "We also found a bag left by the attacker. Next to this bag were two knives that were not used in the attack," he added.

    Police sources named the attacker as Brahim Aouissaoui.

    Speaking after visiting Nice, Mr Macron said: "If we are attacked once again it is for the values which are ours: freedom, for the possibility on our soil to believe freely and not to give in to any spirit of terror.

    "I say it with great clarity once again today: we won't surrender anything."

    Two other attacks took place on Thursday, one in France and one in Saudi Arabia.

    A man was shot dead in Montfavet near the southern French city of Avignon after threatening police with a handgun.

    A guard was attacked outside the French consulate in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia. A suspect was arrested and the guard taken to hospital.

    Who were the victims of the Nice attack?
    All three were attacked inside the basilica on Thursday morning before the first Mass of the day.

    Two died inside the church: a 60-year-old woman who was "virtually beheaded", and a 55-year-old man whose throat was cut.

    The male victim was a lay member of staff responsible for the upkeep of the church. He reportedly had a wife and two children.

    Another woman, aged 44, managed to flee to a nearby cafe after being stabbed several times, but died later.

    It later emerged that a witness had managed to raise the alarm with a special protection system set up by the city.

    Chloe, a witness who lives near the church, told the BBC: "We heard many people shouting in the street. We saw from the window that there were many, many policemen coming, and gunshots, many gunshots."

    Four police officers arrived at the scene at 08:57 local time (07:57 GMT) and the attacker was shot and detained shortly afterwards, the anti-terrorist prosecutor said.

    Four years ago Nice was the scene of one of France's worst jihadist attacks, when a Tunisian drove a truck into crowds celebrating Bastille Day on 14 July, killing 86 people.

    Governments around the world condemned the attack, including France's European neighbours, the US, Turkey, Egypt, Qatar and Lebanon.
    Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54742403.



  68. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by miandadrules View Post
    And what data are you basing this on?
    No data, just my opinion. You hear of this sometimes in the UK as well but basically you hear far more random acts of terrorism or violence by Muslims in France (to slightly less extent in UK) than any countries where Muslims are not majority or large minority.

  69. #149
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    Did any innocent person or police official got hurt in Avignon? How is it in the same category as the other incidents?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Cat View Post
    Surely a person would have to be mentally ill to do something like that to other people. Religion or politics just gives them some kind of personal justification or reasoning for their insanity.
    Stole the words out of my mouth.


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    Feel sorry for Muslims in western countries, they have to face the heat because of these actions.

    Islamophobia on rise

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    So? We should abuse everyone and everything? What is your point?
    My point is, instead of beheading people for actions that are considered by offensive to you and supporting it, you could use the legal framework in order to protest.

    Difference of opinion will always be there. But I have seen that due to some insecurities, Muslims tend to react in extreme ways.


    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Can you quote such posts from just 5 different muslim posters to prove your claim that "many" muslims justified beheadings?
    Those have been reported and deleted along with my replies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    No data, just my opinion. You hear of this sometimes in the UK as well but basically you hear far more random acts of terrorism or violence by Muslims in France (to slightly less extent in UK) than any countries where Muslims are not majority or large minority.
    France has more Muslim immigrants than any other Western European country though.

    It has to do with its African colonies. This guy too turned up from Tunisia some time ago.


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  74. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    My point is, instead of beheading people for actions that are considered by offensive to you and supporting it, you could use the legal framework in order to protest.
    Your point is irrelevant then because nobody has defended the beheadings. What you are saying is already accepted by 99.99% of people.

    Difference of opinion will always be there. But I have seen that due to some insecurities, Muslims tend to react in extreme ways.
    There are no insecurities. If i abuse your family repeatedly in your face, you might ignore me for a couple of times but eventually you will ask me not to do it. Is it because you are insecure?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Cat View Post
    Surely a person would have to be mentally ill to do something like that to other people. Religion or politics just gives them some kind of personal justification or reasoning for their insanity.
    You must ponder, whatís the cause of it? Who are those who turn the people in general public into mentally ill fanatics?
    Itís the JAHIL MULLAHS who continuously ignite this fire in their sermons.

    Instead of giving the right and true message of islam which is patience and forgiveness and making wise choices, these scumbag Jahil mullahs encourage people to take the law in their own hands and do whatís totally unislamic.

    Even today I saw a sermon where the mullah was encouraging the listeners to do whatever it takes to stop the French from doing the cartoons and whatnot.

    When Salman Taseer was murdered, there were hundred and millions of Rs poured in donations, to arrange for his bail and offer Kasaas money to Taseerís family.
    You can imagine how wide spread the ignorance is?

    And then Mr. Kadri was ironic enough to file an appeal against his death sentence. And I was like, SERIOUSLY ??

    You took away Taseerís life in the love of the prophet (saw) and now you are munaafik enough to not give your own life in the love of the prophet (saw)?

    Where did all the slogans of ďAap(saw) pe jaan bi kurban haiĒ go??
    Abhi dona jaan. Moka hai. Why not?

    Why appealing against the death penalty? Donít you believe the prophet (saw) will welcome you with open arms and you will land on your designated spot in heaven?

    Munafikat ki intehaa hai!


    There may be hardly one or two genuine scholars left but I think Muslim countries should introduce a law to hang any Jahil mullah who promotes violence and encourages people to go on extremes and break the law of the land.

    Screaming slogans and taking innocent lives, is not the way to express your love for my prophet (saw). There are other ways to do this. And one of the best ones is to practice patience when such an incident happens - the example of Taif incident is in front of you!

  76. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegitto1 View Post
    I think people lack comprehension skills. All criminal acts are wrong, that goes without saying. However, after finishing the formalities of condemning an act of violence we should look at the underlying issues which are causing such acts to take place.

    The underlying issue is that France through its policies and actions has tried to supress Muslims and Muslim practices. The ban in religious symbols is only enforced against Muslims. Sikhs can wear turbans, Jews can wear Kipahs, but God forbid if a Muslim woman wears a headscarf.

    When you discriminate against a whole group it is bound to have unfortunate consequences for everyone. I can only condemn this act based on what I know so far. However, things will only get worse until and unless France allows Muslims the same rights and freedom that other religions enjoy.
    Will you have the same stand if minorities in islamic countries do something similar?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    France does seem to have brought in the worst kinds of Muslims from all over the world. There are good and bad in all groups but in France it's disproportionately the former.

    Apparently this guy only arrived a few days ago from Tunisia. Why are these people going to a country if they don't agree with the core values of that country?

    You can argue that the cartoons are morally questionable as their only purpose is to provoke and **** off Muslims. That still doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to make the cartoons. But the people killed here weren't even involved here. It's just random senseless killing.
    This guy was a 21 year old Tunisian refugee, the one who beheaded Paty was an 18 year old Chechen refugee. I can't be the only one wondering if there are jihadis who are specifically coming into Europe under the guise of refugees to inflict revenge for Syria.


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    So both attackers were not French yet the French Muslims are demonised by their moronic and rabidly racist PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    This guy was a 21 year old Tunisian refugee, the one who beheaded Paty was an 18 year old Chechen refugee. I can't be the only one wondering if there are jihadis who are specifically coming into Europe under the guise of refugees to inflict revenge for Syria.
    Last i heard Tunisia was a flourishing democracy and is Islamic as well. Why is a guy jumping on boats to come over to Europe for better economic prospects called a Refugee? Europe needs to be stricter with these migrants

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    Another reprehensible attack that continues a dangerous cycle of violence.

    There are some arguing that Macron and Charlie Hebdo have caused these incidents because of their actions. While I think the Charlie Hebdo cartoons are distasteful, and Macron has stoked the fires of a culture war in his response - everyone has a choice in how they respond and responding with violence only serves to marginalise the European Muslim community further in addition to taking innocent life.

    Many Muslims of North African descent in France clearly have issues integrating into the society - whether that's because of discrimination, ultra-conservative religious views, ghettoisation, poverty - nobody fully knows the ground realities sitting outside of France. But clearly given the number of terrorist attacks originating from this group, there's a problem that's needs addressing through tougher security measures or socioeconomic support.

    On Macron's response - his biggest opponent at the last election was not the centre-right or centre-left but the far-right led by Marine Le Pen. His actions are as driven by political interests as the Turkish and Arab Government responses to this issue, who are piping in not because of some love for the Ummah but to pacify domestic audiences.

    As for the cartoons themselves and why they're not censored like Holocaust denial or anti-black caricatures - the difference is unlike the Jewish or Black communities, European Muslims are in no position to dictate terms to Western governments and society. They are often amongst the most marginalised and economically struggling groups with limited political and lobbying power - exacerbated by acts of terror. Some introspection is needed to why that's the case and how to uplift the community as a whole.


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