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  1. #1
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    Is Jasprit Bumrah overrated in ODIs?

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    Is he even any better then Zaheer and Srinath? If find this 'bowling attack' hyped and overrated because india had finally got see some good pace attack vs wi. During the nz series all three of them were exposed tbh

  2. #2
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    This is exactly why stats don't mean everything. you have to watch him play to see the impact he has.

    Anyway Starc averages 34,33and 34 vs India England and South Africa.



    And Pakistan doesn't really count as top team . Besides look at the sample size. 3 games.

  3. #3
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    He is very good in limited over cricket but overrated in test for sure .He has played grand total of 14 test and yet he is compare to rabada,boult who has played 40+ test.let him consistent for 20 or more test then he can be compared to them.

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    He is not at all overrated in ODIs, these days 300 total are a norm and Bumrah is by far the best death over bowler in the world. His economy is 4.9 vs Australia, 4.7 vs NZ, 3.8 vs SA and 4.9 vs Pak.

    In modern era when you compare that with other bowlers like Starc, Boult, Amir, Rabada, Shami and Cummins, they have an overall economy over 5.

    Take an example, in the World Cup game vs England where they scored 335 odd runs, look at bowling figures of all our bowlers.

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...world-cup-2019

    Bumrah bowled his 5 final overs in death overs and ended up with figures of 44-1(10). Statistically, he averages 44 in that match. Shami feeded with that and ended with figures of 5-69. But fact is Bumrah was the best bowler on show for us in that game.

    Australia and England seem to be happy now taking 45-50 runs from his 10 overs (5 of them in death overs) but not giving him any wicket but what is to be seen is how long this strategy works for them.

  5. #5
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    I can see OP's point but these days ODI bowling (esp fast bowling) is more about restricting the run flow in the PowerPlay and at the death.

    He may not pick too many wickets but he's better than anyone at restricting the scoring as evident by his Economy rate. He is probably only behind Starc in terms of his value to an ODI outfit.

  6. #6
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    Ask any team's coach or captain if they would like to have Bumrah in their team and they will scream yes. That matters more than stats.

    On the other hand I can imagine Bumrah being dismissed as an overrated ODI bowler when people look at his stats 30 years later and label those who rate him as nostalgia stricken.

  7. #7
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    Stats only tell half the story.

    Some players are better than their stats, Bumrah is one of them. He is a genuine match winner in all 3 formats.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesozoic View Post
    I can see OP's point but these days ODI bowling (esp fast bowling) is more about restricting the run flow in the PowerPlay and at the death.

    He may not pick too many wickets but he's better than anyone at restricting the scoring as evident by his Economy rate. He is probably only behind Starc in terms of his value to an ODI outfit.
    Bumrah is far better than starc. no one would trade bumrah for Starc.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Bumrah is far better than starc. no one would trade bumrah for Starc.
    Those who want to win ICC trophies would.


    Tum mujhe bhaga sako aisa ho nahi sakta aur tum mere begair bhaago yeh main hone nahi dunga - Viru

  10. #10
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    He is way too overrated in every format.He has not done anything of note yet and he has the worst action ever.

  11. #11
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    He bowls really well thats why batsmen dont attack him that much. Probably a reason why he recently hasnt been getting many wickets but still has maintained a good economy. Compare that to shami who gets samshed all around the place but still picks up heaps of wickets.

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    Excellent with the new ball and excellent at the death. He is capable at picking up wickets at any stage. He is not overrated

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Bumrah is far better than starc. no one would trade bumrah for Starc.
    You could not have been more wrong.

    Bumrah is not even better than Starc let alone far better. And most would pick Starc over Bumrah in any conditions. Bumrah is great at the death and is good with the new ball whereas Starc is very good at both of em.

  14. #14
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    Bumrah is more of an economical bowler rather than a big wicket taker.

    He won't run through a side but his economy rate makes him a very good option.

    He's up there with the best alongwith Starc, Boult, Rabada and co.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesozoic View Post
    You could not have been more wrong.

    Bumrah is not even better than Starc let alone far better. And most would pick Starc over Bumrah in any conditions. Bumrah is great at the death and is good with the new ball whereas Starc is very good at both of em.
    Bumrah is the better bowler imo. More skilful. Starc is just lucky he gets ample rest before big ICC tournaments. He averages 34 plus vs all 3 top sides too.

    Bumrah doesn't get he benefit of added rest. His schedule is way more rigorous and yet he is easily a top 3 bowler in all formats. Not to mention he plays IPL too. Starc chooses not to play, rest up specifically for important test matches and World cups.

    Bumrah is easily the superior bowler in odi.

  16. #16
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    Bumrah This Year.

    matches 7
    Average 180
    SR 198
    Econ 5.5
    wkts 2

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Bumrah is easily the superior bowler in odi.[/QUOTE]

    What else bro?

  18. #18
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    Bumrah's stock in ODIs have plummetted recently. Nowhere near as threatning as before, I wonder what happened?

  19. #19
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    Just the first game. I don't care as long as he performs in tests and World cups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Just the first game. I don't care as long as he performs in tests and World cups.
    I agree, donít think this first game was representative of Bumrahís abilities. But also you were comparing him with Wasim Akram just yesterday!


  21. #21
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    Hasnt been the same since the injury, also not as much cricket being played this year. Rust seems to be playing a bigger role.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    I agree, donít think this first game was representative of Bumrahís abilities. But also you were comparing him with Wasim Akram just yesterday!
    Skill wise I mean and his pace is good. I said he has the tools to get there. Never said better. He needs to play a lot more games for that.

  23. #23
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    Starc went for plenty as well. These pitches are not comparable to the ones in 90s and 00s in ODIs in Australia and other countries.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Just the first game. I don't care as long as he performs in tests and World cups.
    This is the problem with india. They literally think zaheer is an elite bowler just because of wc completely discarding how mediocre rest of his careers performance looked like

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Skill wise I mean and his pace is good. I said he has the tools to get there. Never said better. He needs to play a lot more games for that.
    And how exactly can you compare their skills? Bumrah has an ugly action that is not repeatable at all. He had a good start to his career but Injuries, as well as modern teams planning against him, would mean he would fade away from longer formats of the game soon enough.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by yxsr View Post
    This is the problem with india. They literally think zaheer is an elite bowler just because of wc completely discarding how mediocre rest of his careers performance looked like
    Bumrah is an elite bowler. One bad game doesn't mean he is not world class lol. He is a top tier bowler and he will show it soon.


    Zaheer is an an above average bowler but no where near bumrah.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoyoAli View Post
    And how exactly can you compare their skills? Bumrah has an ugly action that is not repeatable at all. He had a good start to his career but Injuries, as well as modern teams planning against him, would mean he would fade away from longer formats of the game soon enough.
    He can do literally everything. Bouncer, slow ball, yorker, move the ball inswing and also cutters. He only needs to work on outswing.

  28. #28
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    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post

    Very bad phase.


    Virat, ABD, KP and Sir Viv.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Bumrah is an elite bowler. One bad game doesn't mean he is not world class lol. He is a top tier bowler and he will show it soon.


    Zaheer is an an above average bowler but no where near bumrah.
    The difference is that it isnt one game. Its his while career if you go look at the original photo attached to the title of the post. In tests hes only play like 14 games. And there i was arguinig with some indian a week back who was comparing bumrah to akram lmao

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoyoAli View Post
    And how exactly can you compare their skills? Bumrah has an ugly action that is not repeatable at all. He had a good start to his career but Injuries, as well as modern teams planning against him, would mean he would fade away from longer formats of the game soon enough.
    It's an ugly action but it is deceptive and repeatable.

    Skills
    - perfect seam position
    - control over length
    -acceleration of the pitch
    - Yorkers at will
    - good bumper
    - pace variations
    - sustainable pace for 10 overs

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by yxsr View Post
    The difference is that it isnt one game. Its his while career if you go look at the original photo attached to the title of the post. In tests hes only play like 14 games. And there i was arguinig with some indian a week back who was comparing bumrah to akram lmao
    we shall see bro. A guy with his level of skill will always remain quality. He also has excellent pace.
    form is temporary. class is permanent.

    Look at joffra. He was getting smashed in tests too but he made a comeback slowly. it takes time.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarak View Post
    It's an ugly action but it is deceptive and repeatable.

    Skills
    - perfect seam position
    - control over length
    -acceleration of the pitch
    - Yorkers at will
    - good bumper
    - pace variations
    - sustainable pace for 10 overs
    Yeah nothing about him tells me he has the sustainable pace for 10 years. He has yet to have a good series post injury. As far as I can see he is struggling in ODIs and might struggle even more in Tests. He is perfect for t20s tho. Maybe the Malinga of this generation.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarak View Post
    It's an ugly action but it is deceptive and repeatable.

    Skills
    - perfect seam position
    - control over length
    -acceleration of the pitch
    - Yorkers at will
    - good bumper
    - pace variations
    - sustainable pace for 10 overs
    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    we shall see bro. A guy with his level of skill will always remain quality. He also has excellent pace.
    form is temporary. class is permanent.

    Look at joffra. He was getting smashed in tests too but he made a comeback slowly. it takes time.
    Bumra is a very good bowler but he isnt in the same league as wasim

  35. #35
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    Bumrah is a very good bowler but hes nowhere near wasim quality

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    He can do literally everything. Bouncer, slow ball, yorker, move the ball inswing and also cutters. He only needs to work on outswing.
    Junaid Khan could do all of these things too before Injury, Amir as well. The problem is with him after Injury, the same performances would be harder to replicate in longer formats. Maybe he will excel in some conditions but I am skeptical.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Very bad phase.
    Was he bowling well in IPL?

  38. #38
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    Bumrah has had a year to forget. Reminder that cricket is a great leveler and no player is invincible.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post

    That's just awful.So so overrated this ugly action.

  40. #40
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    Bumrah is a top, top bowler, but comparing him to Wasim is ludicrous.
    Tyron really needs to re-educate himself. His mindset about past cricketers being inferior to today's ones is extremely reductionist and without any technical understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Well tbf it's just the first game. Only 2 bowlers performed well i.e Shami and Hazelwood. But my word Shami is a gem.
    I can't believe India dropped him 2019 semi freaking final.

    All I am saying is don't write off bumrah so early. He is a top tier player. Won't take him long to bounce back.
    In yesterday's match, Hazelwood's performances was superior to Shami's.
    Hazelwood took three powerplay wickets. Shami bowled well but it was on ok/good performance at best. Late wickets doesn't matter as much as top order, powerplay wickets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobashir View Post
    In yesterday's match, Hazelwood's performances was superior to Shami's.
    Hazelwood took three powerplay wickets. Shami bowled well but it was on ok/good performance at best. Late wickets doesn't matter as much as top order, powerplay wickets.
    Shami bowled well, Aussies were happy to play him out because Bumrah released pressure from the other end. If Bumrah was tighter, Shami would have walked away with at least one more wicket in the powerplay.

  43. #43
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    Yesterday Shami did bowl really well given that the pitch was a batting paradise and the conditions were alien to him and his economy was under 6 in a game in which the opposition made 370+.

    Hazelwood also did well but he had the home advantage and bowling under lights with 370 to defend.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobashir View Post
    In yesterday's match, Hazelwood's performances was superior to Shami's.
    Hazelwood took three powerplay wickets. Shami bowled well but it was on ok/good performance at best. Late wickets doesn't matter as much as top order, powerplay wickets.
    Nope conditions were easier for Hazlewood due to it being a little used, foot prints etc. Night under the lights.

    Much harder when the pitch was new.
    Shami is a world class bowler. He bowler well I still think it's our batting that's our weakness. Our bowling will be fine. We have a top pace attack. Our batting is the weakness in Australia and England.
    Last edited by tyron_woodley; 28th November 2020 at 14:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    He is not at all overrated in ODIs, these days 300 total are a norm and Bumrah is by far the best death over bowler in the world. His economy is 4.9 vs Australia, 4.7 vs NZ, 3.8 vs SA and 4.9 vs Pak.

    In modern era when you compare that with other bowlers like Starc, Boult, Amir, Rabada, Shami and Cummins, they have an overall economy over 5.

    Take an example, in the World Cup game vs England where they scored 335 odd runs, look at bowling figures of all our bowlers.

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...world-cup-2019

    Bumrah bowled his 5 final overs in death overs and ended up with figures of 44-1(10). Statistically, he averages 44 in that match. Shami feeded with that and ended with figures of 5-69. But fact is Bumrah was the best bowler on show for us in that game.

    Australia and England seem to be happy now taking 45-50 runs from his 10 overs (5 of them in death overs) but not giving him any wicket but what is to be seen is how long this strategy works for them.
    Thats a load of toss. Shami bowled before the death overs and removed Morgan,Bairstow and Root?How did he benefit from Bumrah?If anything Bumrah benefitted by bowling death overs to lesser batsmen with wickets down

    Wickets always matter more than ER except T20s.


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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Well tbf it's just the first game. Only 2 bowlers performed well i.e Shami and Hazelwood. But my word Shami is a gem.
    I can't believe India dropped him 2019 semi freaking final.

    All I am saying is don't write off bumrah so early. He is a top tier player. Won't take him long to bounce back.
    Also entire CT 2017


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    He is overrated. Mohammed Shami is the best Indian bowler.


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    He is a very very good bowler but should be rested properly , cannot be played in all formats , this is what Indian management need to look out for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saurav View Post
    Thats a load of toss. Shami bowled before the death overs and removed Morgan,Bairstow and Root?How did he benefit from Bumrah?If anything Bumrah benefitted by bowling death overs to lesser batsmen with wickets down

    Wickets always matter more than ER except T20s.
    Because I watched that game.

    Bumrah was very hard to hit in the final 10 overs. In that game, particularly, he executed death overs bowling brilliantly. Because of that, Morgan, Root, Buttler and Stokes all went after Shami and other bowlers and Shami managed to get those wickets.

    Nothing against Shami, he is obviously more known for his wicket taking ability than for death overs bowling but he was helped by Bumrah in that game. If not for that bowling by Bumrah, England would have posted 360 runs rather than 335.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Because I watched that game.

    Bumrah was very hard to hit in the final 10 overs. In that game, particularly, he executed death overs bowling brilliantly. Because of that, Morgan, Root, Buttler and Stokes all went after Shami and other bowlers and Shami managed to get those wickets.

    Nothing against Shami, he is obviously more known for his wicket taking ability than for death overs bowling but he was helped by Bumrah in that game. If not for that bowling by Bumrah, England would have posted 360 runs rather than 335.
    I also watched that game and apart from death overs Shami bowled really well in PP and middle overs,his figures were 7 overs 1 maiden 2 wickets for 25 runs.


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    Quote Originally Posted by andy0204 View Post
    I also watched that game and apart from death overs Shami bowled really well in PP and middle overs,his figures were 7 overs 1 maiden 2 wickets for 25 runs.
    So, in last 3 overs only he went for 44 runs. Clearly it means that the other three wickets came off due to Bumrah's bowling at the other end. Anyways, I like both so good to have both of them in the team.

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    Just a matter of time before this overrated chucker is exposed.

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    He went for like 70 the other day and 80 today if that was Amir everyone would be calling for his head and calling him overrated, etc. Lmao at the double standards, "for Indian bowlers stats only tell half the stories" yeah because you really have to watch and appreciate how bad a bowler has to be to go for 150 runs over two straight odis...


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  54. #54
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    someone update the latest stats pic


    Virat, ABD, KP and Sir Viv.

  55. #55
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    Averaging 25.6 now, same as Shami but Shami has better AVG Vs better teams. Bumrah has an economy of 4.66 while for Shami it is 5.63.

  56. #56
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    Just did the math, averages 39.19 against England, New Zealand, Australia, and Pakistan.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Just did the math, averages 39.19 against England, New Zealand, Australia, and Pakistan.
    Economy against these teams is 5.22. I do think heís better than the stats though, but I hope he is able to improve these numbers significantly before he retires.

  58. #58
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    He is not over rated ! He is the best along with trend bolt and rabada. But shaheen has potential to give them good fight in following years. Unless he goes down the path of mitchell stark.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indian_cricket_fan View Post
    He is not over rated ! He is the best along with trend bolt and rabada. But shaheen has potential to give them good fight in following years. Unless he goes down the path of mitchell stark.
    Mitchel Starc May be on a decline now. Heís been a gun bowler for Australia over the years

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indian_cricket_fan View Post
    He is not over rated ! He is the best along with trend bolt and rabada. But shaheen has potential to give them good fight in following years. Unless he goes down the path of mitchell stark.
    Isnt the same bowler post injury. Will still perform in t20s but that's it.

  61. #61
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    Bowling averages against top 6 teams(SENA, India,Pak) for best Asian pacers in last 15 years:-

    Mohammad Shami AVG 27, Econ 5.75
    Lasith Malinga AVG 32, Econ 5.65
    Mohammad Amir AVG 33, Econ 5.05
    Jasprit Bumrah AVG 35, Econ 5.06
    Umar Gul AVG 38, Econ 5.85

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Bowling averages against top 6 teams(SENA, India,Pak) for best Asian pacers in last 15 years:-

    Mohammad Shami AVG 27, Econ 5.75
    Lasith Malinga AVG 32, Econ 5.65
    Mohammad Amir AVG 33, Econ 5.05
    Jasprit Bumrah AVG 35, Econ 5.06
    Umar Gul AVG 38, Econ 5.85
    Muhammad amir missed his peak but still has pretty decent combination of average and economy against the big sides to add to his two. world titles. Its interesting to see what Shami ends up with once he starts declining. Bumrah at 27 shoild be at his peak.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Bowling averages against top 6 teams(SENA, India,Pak) for best Asian pacers in last 15 years:-

    Mohammad Shami AVG 27, Econ 5.75
    Lasith Malinga AVG 32, Econ 5.65
    Mohammad Amir AVG 33, Econ 5.05
    Jasprit Bumrah AVG 35, Econ 5.06
    Umar Gul AVG 38, Econ 5.85
    Shami is underrated.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan hunt View Post
    Muhammad amir missed his peak but still has pretty decent combination of average and economy against the big sides to add to his two. world titles. Its interesting to see what Shami ends up with once he starts declining. Bumrah at 27 shoild be at his peak.
    Amir has the lowest wickets among them.

  65. #65
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    Bumrah is 26. Not 27**. 1 year is a huge difference in sport.
    He is no where near his peak.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Bumrah is 26. Not 27**. 1 year is a huge difference in sport.
    He is no where near his peak.
    Many, many fast bowlers peak at 26

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Many, many fast bowlers peak at 26
    They do and they peak too early. Bumrah hasn't peaked yet. He is not art his physical best.
    Peak is when both your physical and mental strength are at its absolute best.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    They do and they peak too early. Bumrah hasn't peaked yet. He is not art his physical best.
    Peak is when both your physical and mental strength are at its absolute best.
    I hope he is able to sustain his physical best for a sustained period. His action has already caused him one semi-major injury which he is still recovering from.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Bumrah is 26. Not 27**. 1 year is a huge difference in sport.
    He is no where near his peak.
    He will turn 27 on 6 december so he is 27 approx

  70. #70
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    Bumrah is a great bowler! Let's not comment on how he performed in the last 2 odis against Australia as Australia completely forgot that they were preparing those pitches for a game of cricket. Why not use bowling machines next time? What is the point of having all these bowlers in your team? Where the hell is cricket going? In case you missed all this drama, so far 9 half centuries and 3 centuries(coud have been 7) have been scored in this series. RIP Cricket.

  71. #71
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    oh wait.. forgot to add, both Bumrah and Starc went for 80+ in the last Odi

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caved12 View Post
    Bumrah is a great bowler! Let's not comment on how he performed in the last 2 odis against Australia as Australia completely forgot that they were preparing those pitches for a game of cricket. Why not use bowling machines next time? What is the point of having all these bowlers in your team? Where the hell is cricket going? In case you missed all this drama, so far 9 half centuries and 3 centuries(coud have been 7) have been scored in this series. RIP Cricket.
    He struggled in nz and also struggled vs aus at home that means 7 consecutive odi matches

  73. #73
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    The only reason I say Bumrah is better than his stats suggest is because I know many of these same posters will not hesitate to jump on the stats of a Pakistani pacer to suggest he is bad. Just as I defend our pacers then, I am defending Bumrah now. He is very, very good.

    But those stats are atrocious.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    The only reason I say Bumrah is better than his stats suggest is because I know many of these same posters will not hesitate to jump on the stats of a Pakistani pacer to suggest he is bad. Just as I defend our pacers then, I am defending Bumrah now. He is very, very good.

    But those stats are atrocious.
    His average of 180+ in the last few games is down to bad luck, Kohli losing the toss, batsmen being too mean to him etc.

    Had anyone else had these stats, they deserved criticism, but Bumrah never should. He is leading the best all-round bowling attack (for all conditions) in the world. You haters are just jealous.

  75. #75
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    He is playing lot of t20s....need to cut it off....

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    His average of 180+ in the last few games is down to bad luck, Kohli losing the toss, batsmen being too mean to him etc.

    Had anyone else had these stats, they deserved criticism, but Bumrah never should. He is leading the best all-round bowling attack (for all conditions) in the world. You haters are just jealous.
    Genius with the new ball, and can bowl yorkers and other variations at will to contain even on flat pitches. No, Iím talking about Akram.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by naseem View Post
    He is playing lot of t20s....need to cut it off....
    Yeah, spot on. BCCI should just pay him his million $ IPL share and ban him from IPL now.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Yeah, spot on. BCCI should just pay him his million $ IPL share and ban him from IPL now.
    But again he is one of the a few good domestic pacers india have.....

  79. #79
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    You can scoff all you want. Akram ain't doing squat on these dead pitches. Boult is a great exponent of the new ball. Want to see his record in Australia?

    These flat pitches just aren't conducive for fast bowling.

    Blame Australia for producing these dreadful pitches on purpose. They are smart though. That's the way to beat India. Win the toss and bat them out of the game.

    When mediocre piece of trash pie chucking fodders are Able to contain and play well in these pitches because they are medium fast bowlers then you know this is a trash pitch.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by naseem View Post
    But again he is one of the a few good domestic pacers india have.....
    But, Few is always greater than 1


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