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    Massacres carried out against Kashmiris

    The killing fields of Jammu: How Muslims become a minority in the region

    What was the death toll in the killing fields of Jammu? There are no official figures, so one has to go by reports in the British press of that period. Horace Alexander’s article on 16 January 1948 in The Spectator is much quoted; he put the number killed at 200,000.

    To quote a 10 August 1948 report published in The Times, London: “2,37,000 Muslims were systematically exterminated – unless they escaped to Pakistan along the border – by the forces of the Dogra State headed by the Maharaja in person and aided by Hindus and Sikhs. This happened in October 1947, five days before the Pathan invasion and nine days before the Maharaja’s accession to india.” Reportedly, as a result of the massacre/migration, Muslims who were a majority (61 per cent) in the Jammu region became a minority.

    Mountbatten was in control in Delhi and had news of the genocide of Muslims in Jammu filtered out of the media. Sadly, there has been precious little discussion in India about this horrible phase of history.
    Maharaja Hari Singh’s involvement, with the support of the RSS, is evident from a letter Jawaharlal Nehru wrote to Vallabhbhai Patel on 17 April 1949 (quoted in Frontline magazine):

    In this (intelligence) report, among other things, a reference was made to a growing Hindu agitation in Jammu province for what is called a zonal plebiscite. This idea is based on the belief that a plebiscite for the whole of Kashmir is bound to be lost and, therefore, let us save Jammu at least. You will perhaps remember that some proposal of this kind was put forward by the Maharaja some months back. it seems to me that this kind of propaganda is very harmful, indeed, for us. Whatever may happen in the future, I do not think Jammu province is running away from us. If we want Jammu province by itself and are prepared to make a present of the rest of the State to Pakistan, I have no doubt we could clinch the issue in a few days. The prize we are fighting for is the valley of Kashmir. [This is what Nehru had dug in his heels for. The consequences are for all to see to this day.]


    This propaganda for a zonal plebiscite is going on in Jammu, in Delhi and elsewhere. It is carried on by what is known as the Jammu Praja Parishad. Our intelligence officer reported that this Praja Parishad is financed by the Maharaja. Further, that the large sums collected for the Dharmarth Fund, which are controlled by the Maharaja, are being spent in propaganda for him.


    The lid on these massacres was lifted by Ved Bhasin and a few journalists of that time. But like the collective silence over the pogrom in Hyderabad, the holocaust in Jammu has been a story hidden from public view by the machinations of the very people who covertly allowed the massacres to take place. These included many in the national leadership of the Congress party at the time. The events of Hyderabad and Jammu and Kashmir reveal the emergence in New Delhi of an establishment which was indifferent to Indian Muslims.

    Consider the testimony of journalist Ved Bhasin. Here I am again quoting from his paper presented at the Jammu University in 2003.

    Communal tension was building up in Jammu soon after the announcement of the Mountbatten plan with the Hindu Sabha, RSS and the Muslim Conference trying to incite communal passions. Tension increased with a large number of Hindus and Sikhs migrating to the State from Punjab and NWFP and even from areas now under Pakistan’s control. Trouble was brewing in Poonch, where a popular non-communal agitation was launched after the Maharaja’s administration took over the erstwhile jagir under its direct control and imposed some taxes. The mishandling of this agitation and use of brutal force by the Maharaja’s administration inflamed the passions, turning this non-communal struggle into a communal strife.

    The Maharaja’s administration had not only asked all Muslims to surrender their arms but also demobilised a large number of Muslim soldiers in the Dogra army and the Muslim police officers, whose loyalty it suspected. The Maharaja’s visit to Bhimber was followed by large-scale killings.

    According to Bhasin, the communal flare-up was the worst in Jammu. “Rumours were spread about Muslims arming themselves and planning to attack hindus to justify the communal carnage that took place later.” According to the 1941 census, the Muslim population of Jammu province was over 12 lakh; the total population was 20 lakh. Jammu district had a population of about 4.5 lakh with the Muslims accounting for 1.7 lakh. The population of the capital city of Jammu was just 50,000, Muslims constituting nearly 16,000. By September end, a large number of Muslims from the border areas of Bishnah, RS Pura, Akhnoor, etc. had fled to Sialkot in Pakistan. With communal riots taking place in neighbouring Punjab there was total panic in the border areas.
    Bhasin reports the large-scale killing of Muslims in Udhampur district, particularly in Udhampur proper, Chenani, Ramnagar and Reasi areas. Even in Bhaderwah (about 150 kilometres from Udhampur), a number of Muslims were victims of communal marauders. According to Bhasin, the RSS played a key role in these killings, aided by armed Sikh refugees “who even paraded the Jammu streets with their naked swords”. Some of those who led the riots in Udhampur and Bhaderwah later joined the National Conference and some even served as ministers. There were reports of Muslims massacred in Chhamb, Deva Batala, Manawsar and other parts of Akhnoor, with several of them fleeing to the other side or moving to Jammu. In Kathua district too there was the large-scale killing of Muslims and reports of women being raped and abducted.

    As for the attitude of the state, Bhasin alleges that instead of preventing these communal killings and fostering an atmosphere of peace, “the Maharaja’s administration helped and even armed the communal marauders”. He goes on to say that many Muslims living outside Muslim-dominated areas were brutally killed by the rioters who moved freely in vehicles with arms and ammunition even when the city was officially under curfew. “The curfew it appeared was meant only to check the movement of Muslims,” he says.
    Terrible carnage took place later when the Muslims in Talab Khatikan area were asked to surrender.

    They were shifted to the police lines at Jogi gate, where now Delhi Public School is situated. Instead of providing them security, the administration encouraged them to go to Pakistan for safety. The first batch of several thousands of these Muslims were loaded in about sixty lorries to take them to Sialkot. Unaware of what is going to happen to them these families boarded the buses. The vehicles were escorted by troops. But when they reached near Chattha on Jammu-Sialkot road, in the outskirts of the city, a large number of armed RSS men and Sikh refugees were positioned there.

    They were pulled out of the vehicles and killed mercilessly with the soldiers either joining [in] or looking [on] as idle spectators. The news about the massacre was kept a closely guarded secret. next day another batch of these Muslim families were similarly boarded in the vehicles and met the same fate. [T]hose who somehow managed to escape the wrath of killers reached Sialkot to narrate their tale of woe…

    The state administration denied it had any role in the massacres. It even feigned ignorance of any plans to change the demography of the Jammu region. But Bhasin differs:

    Though polite, he warned me of dire consequences…he first warned me by saying that “I could have put you behind bars for your nefarious activities. But since you also happen to be a Khatri like me and are also related to me, i am simply giving you advice. It is not the time to form peace committees and work for peace but to defend Hindus and Sikhs from the Muslim communalists who are planning to kill them and destabilise the situation. We have already formed a Hindu Sikh Defence Committee. You and your colleagues better support it.” Then he added, “We are imparting armed training to Hindu and Sikh boys in Rehari area. You and your colleagues should better join such training.” When i sent a colleague to the training camp the next day he found that some RSS youths and others were being given training in the use of .303 rifles by soldiers.

    Another incident that I recall is about Mr Mehr Chand Mahajan (the then prime minister) who told a delegation of Hindus who met him in the palace when he arrived in Jammu that now when the power is being transferred to the people they should demand parity. [One] of them associated with National Conference asked how can they demand parity when there is so much difference in population ratio. Pointing to the Ramnagarrakh below, where some bodies of Muslims were still lying he said “the population ratio too can change”.

    Mahatma Gandhi did comment on the situation in Jammu on 25 December 1947 and his remarks have found mention in volume 90 of his Collected Works: “The Hindus and Sikhs of Jammu and those who had gone there from outside killed Muslims. The Maharaja of Kashmir is responsible for what is happening there…Muslim women have been dishonoured.”

    https://amp.scroll.in/article/811468...mpression=true


    when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty

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    In any other part of the world, a massacre and ethnic cleansing of such proportions would be highlighted every year so that the perpetrators never forget it. We have failed to do it.

    I wish the history of the hindutva terrorism and onslaught on the muslims of Jammu and Kashmir is exposed at every level. The allies of Kashmir must highlight the history of oppression which has thrown J&K into the abyss of chaos.

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    Excellent thread, totally agree the world has turned a blind eye to this opperation of the highest order. May imran khan get the platform for exposing these modern day Nazis in which he's trying his up most best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    In any other part of the world, a massacre and ethnic cleansing of such proportions would be highlighted every year so that the perpetrators never forget it. We have failed to do it.

    I wish the history of the hindutva terrorism and onslaught on the muslims of Jammu and Kashmir is exposed at every level. The allies of Kashmir must highlight the history of oppression which has thrown J&K into the abyss of chaos.
    Learn from the Jews. They never let anyone forget about their holocaust.

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    The Sopore (Kashmir) Massacre anniversary: 6th January

    27 Years On, Victims Of Sopore Massacre That Left 57 Dead, Await Justice


    Excerpts from the article

    It has been 27 years since the 1993 Sopore Massacre befell the quaint north-western apple town of the Kashmir valley.

    A glaring example of the use of brute and violent force by the Indian Army in the Valley, it refers to the morning of 6th of January in 1993 when the Indian Border Security Force (BSF) went on a fevered 4-hour-long killing spree leaving 57 people dead and over 400 buildings charred and rubbled.

    Of a land burdened with remembrances of many bloody carnages such as Gawkadal, Handwara, Kunan Poshpora, Kupwara, Bijbehara, the Sopore massacre is one of the rare few that have been acknowledged by the Indian state.
    The high number of casualties that shook the world’s press, even caused the TIME Magazine to print its version of the massacre under the headline: ‘Blood Tide Rising‘ with an introduction that read: “Perhaps there is a special corner in hell reserved for soldiers who fired their weapons indiscriminately into a crowd of unarmed civilians.”
    The United Kingdom’s Independent had covered the mass murder from its New Delhi desk a few days after its occurrence. It reported that senior officials in India had “admitted that members of the paramilitary had gone on a ‘shameful’ rampage of killing in the mountainous state of Kashmir on Wednesday (6th Jan 1993).
    The chilling eyewitness records and survivors’ accounts claim that the BSF troopers herded native Kashmiris into their shops and houses that morning as they rioted across town. The forces then allegedly shot them, splashed paraffin over the bodies and set their homes on fire.

    Officially, more than 250 shops and 50 homes were destroyed, but Kashmir sources claim that more than 450 buildings were burnt down. More than 20 bodies might have been trapped under the smoking rubble, which were retrieved much later.

    The BSF also sprayed gun powder and petrol on many surrounding buildings, shops, and houses and set them alight.

    Around five localities including Shalpora, Shahabad, Muslimpeer, Kraltang and Arampora were turned into ashes. In the long rows of wood and cement structures that were set ablaze, landmarks like Women’s Degree College and Samad Talkies (movie hall) were also pulverised.

    One of the most numbing parts of the massacre is the eyewitness account of the uniformed men killing everyone on board in a Bandipora bound state transportation bus, bearing the registration number JKY-1901.

    Greater Kashmir (GK) recorded one such survivor stating: “Among the 57 dead civilians, scores had been burnt alive. The troopers dragged the driver out of a bus and showered bullets on the passengers on board, resulting in the on-spot death of 20 passengers.”


    Another eyewitness speaking to GK added: “A day before the massacre, one of our fruit-laden trucks had got stuck in a drain near the main Chowk. Four members of our family who were recovering the truck that day had taken shelter in a shop when the BSF troops started firing at the people. The BSF men entered that shop and killed them all.”
    Source: https://thelogicalindian.com/amp/exc...re-dead-burnt/

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    Requests to Mods:

    Kindly change the thread title to "Massacres carried out against Kashmiris" so that we could add articles to it whenever it's the anniversary of any massacre (yes, there are that many). It'll be better if we have them all in one thread.
    Last edited by Madplayer; 6th January 2021 at 12:58.

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    I hold Liaqat Ali Khan responsible for the suffering of Muslims in Jammu and Kashmir. There was a deal that Patel offered Junagadh and Hyderabad to India, and Jammu Kashmir to Pakistan.

    And the Pakistan government i hold responsible for not bringing enough attention to this issue. I dont think most Pakistanis know anything about the history of Jammu Muslims. Indian government has told their public about anything wrong that Muslims have done to Hindus in the last 1,400 years, yet Pakistanis know very little about the times when Hindus and Sikhs oppressed Muslims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    I hold Liaqat Ali Khan responsible for the suffering of Muslims in Jammu and Kashmir. There was a deal that Patel offered Junagadh and Hyderabad to India, and Jammu Kashmir to Pakistan.

    And the Pakistan government i hold responsible for not bringing enough attention to this issue. I dont think most Pakistanis know anything about the history of Jammu Muslims. Indian government has told their public about anything wrong that Muslims have done to Hindus in the last 1,400 years, yet Pakistanis know very little about the times when Hindus and Sikhs oppressed Muslims.
    Is there any concrete evidence of that proposal? Also I don't think it's a good idea to barter land for land especially when there are fellow Muslims in those other territories that suffered especially in Hyderabad. The Nawab of Junagarh and Nizam of Hyderabad had significantly more influence among the founders of Pakistan, unfortunately Kashmir did not have an indigenous Muslim monarch in 400+ years.

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    Anniversary of the Gaw Kadal (Kashmir) Massacre

    IFJHR releases report of Gaw-Kadal Massacre in IOK


    International Forum for Justice, Human Rights (IFJHR) chairman Muhammad Ahsan Untoo in a statement has paid glowing tributes to the martyrs of first and worst massacres in the resistance history of occupied Kashmir in which 53 innocent civilians were martyred by Indian forces.

    According to report, when Jagmohan Malhotra took over as the governor of disputed territory of Jammu and Kashmir on 19 January 1990, for the second time in a bid to control the mass pro-freedom protests by Kashmiris. Just a day later on his second day in office on January 21, 1990, the first mass massacre took place in capital city Srinagar.

    At least 52 people were killed and 250 others injured, according to survivors and media reports.

    Ahsan Unto said, “It was the first massacre that took place after the armed rebellion against India broke out in the state in November 1989–which continues to remain an apple of discord between India and Pakistan since the partition in 1947.”

    He stated that the Indian forces conducted house to house searches during the preceding night that day to flush out the militants and trace the weapons and other ammunition which according to them was kept in the houses of locals.

    “The word spread among the people that during the house to house searches by Indian forces, the women were molested and it spread like wild fire across Kashmir Valley. People in thousands came out on roads and began to march towards the old city area of Srinagar.” Unto added.

    “The procession from areas like Magarmal Bagh, Padshahi Bagh, Kursoo-Rajbagh, Jawahar Nagar and Mehjoor Nagar reached Lal Chowk and began to move towards the old city via Gaw Kadal. At Ghanta Ghar, Lal Chowk, the police officer DSP Alla Baksh, stopped the procession and forced them to move towards Gaw-Kadal via Maisuma” report stated.

    Chairman IFJHR said that the massacre is seen to have become a catalyst which propelled into a mass upsurge. Young men from hundreds of homes picked up guns to fight India out of Kashmir. In Srinagar, each mosque became a citadel of fervor.

    “No known action was ever taken against the CRPF forces officials responsible for the massacre or against the officers present at Gawkadal that night. No government investigation was ever ordered into the incident.” Unto lamented

    IFJHR in this regard approached all international and local human rights organizations to punish the culprits.


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/dailyti...re-in-iok/amp/

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    I am typing this as I am watching a program on how Kashmiri Hindus were massacred and kicked out of Kashmir and how the women were raped.

    All of this in the name of the most merciful God who is supposed to protect its adherents from evil doers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    I am typing this as I am watching a program on how Kashmiri Hindus were massacred and kicked out of Kashmir and how the women were raped.

    All of this in the name of the most merciful God who is supposed to protect its adherents from evil doers.
    This is what you have to contribute to this thread? Shameful to say the least.
    Put your saffron hindutva extremist glasses down and read the articles mentioned in this thread to see what actual massacres and an actual (and active) genocide looks like.

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    Back in the days, there was a show called Babylon 5, it had a clip that was really emotional and something every Kashmiri should see. I know real life isn't like a scripted tv show but I hope nature prevails way towards justice, one way or the other.

    Starts at the 2:00 minute mark if anyone is interested



    Azaadi. InshAllah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    This is what you have to contribute to this thread? Shameful to say the least.
    Put your saffron hindutva extremist glasses down and read the articles mentioned in this thread to see what actual massacres and an actual (and active) genocide looks like.
    At this point, I do not believe any story coming from any side. Both sides are alleging massacres and genocide. Whom should the neutral person believe.
    On a side note, do you call anyone who does believe right away your post a saffron extremist? If so, I should be calling you also with choicest words. Please do not be emotional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    At this point, I do not believe any story coming from any side. Both sides are alleging massacres and genocide. Whom should the neutral person believe.
    On a side note, do you call anyone who does believe right away your post a saffron extremist? If so, I should be calling you also with choicest words. Please do not be emotional.
    What two sides are you talking about? There is only one side. The Kashmiri side. Kashmiris were suffering long before the 90s. Before pandit exodus and before the muslim exodus and ethnic cleansing at the hands if hindutva king's regime.
    Anyone who comes into a thread and begins spewing rubbish like "All of this in the name of the most merciful God who is supposed to protect its adherents from evil doers" is clearly leaning towards the saffron extremist side. And after making such a statement, you have the gall to claim that you dont believe any side. Well la de freakin da, you've already picked a side. Its not the Kashmiri pandit side, its not the Kashmiri muslim side, its the hindutva extremist side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    What two sides are you talking about? There is only one side. The Kashmiri side. Kashmiris were suffering long before the 90s. Before pandit exodus and before the muslim exodus and ethnic cleansing at the hands if hindutva king's regime.
    Anyone who comes into a thread and begins spewing rubbish like "All of this in the name of the most merciful God who is supposed to protect its adherents from evil doers" is clearly leaning towards the saffron extremist side. And after making such a statement, you have the gall to claim that you dont believe any side. Well la de freakin da, you've already picked a side. Its not the Kashmiri pandit side, its not the Kashmiri muslim side, its the hindutva extremist side.
    You are just emotional and you have a narrative. You being a Kashmiri, have you heard about Sushil Pandit? if so, do you believe his narrative?

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    You are just emotional and you have a narrative. You being a Kashmiri, have you heard about Sushil Pandit? if so, do you believe his narrative?
    Its not just a narrative. It is backed by documented facts so idk what you are talking about.
    I've heard about sushil pandit. Even though he is clearly a hindutva extremist trying to cash in on the suffering of Pandits, i partly agree with him. No one denies that pandits suffered. However, like all hindutva extremists, he exaggerates to biblical proportions and mentions things which simply did not happen. Most of those spewing venom on television had never even lived in Kashmir, like Anupam kher or even Suresh Raina. They just want to ride the wave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoUgandaCranes View Post
    Back in the days, there was a show called Babylon 5, it had a clip that was really emotional and something every Kashmiri should see. I know real life isn't like a scripted tv show but I hope nature prevails way towards justice, one way or the other.

    Starts at the 2:00 minute mark if anyone is interested

    Never heard about this show but what that mutant looking guy said was really inspiring.

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    Whether I agree or disagree with the thread, the attention that's given to this thread shows how the supposed the "allies of Kashmir" actually have an agenda of anti India rather than anything to do with Kashmir.

    One should ask the question, why this thread is still lacking the attention that other threads on Kashmir do gets?

    Reason is simple. The mentioning of modern India and current affairs are not present in OP rather OP refers to narratives of past. This doesn't suit the agenda of allies in any shape or form.

    If one truly believes these "allies" have their best interest in heart, then it's already clear what the actual agenda is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Whether I agree or disagree with the thread, the attention that's given to this thread shows how the supposed the "allies of Kashmir" actually have an agenda of anti India rather than anything to do with Kashmir.

    One should ask the question, why this thread is still lacking the attention that other threads on Kashmir do gets?

    Reason is simple. The mentioning of modern India and current affairs are not present in OP rather OP refers to narratives of past. This doesn't suit the agenda of allies in any shape or form.

    If one truly believes these "allies" have their best interest in heart, then it's already clear what the actual agenda is.
    Lol wut? This is such a dumb conclusion you've come to; Pakistanis concerns for Kashmiri and our alliance isn't measured by some forum posts on some internet forum that less than 0.00000000000000001% Pakistanis use. You actually show your malintent by posting something totally irrelevant to the thread for point scoring.

    Also you have no idea when you "doesn't suit the agenda of allies in any shape or form", well actually it does; These atrocities that India have committed in Kashmir especially since the 90s are often talked about, when we say 100,000+ Kashmiris have been killed, 20,000+ missing, 10,000 Kashmiri females have been raped, we're mainly talking about the 90s and this is an excellent counter-point to the Pandit card that India plays. When there's long history of India's war crimes in Kashmir then it actually fits our narrative of India committing genocide of the Kashmiri nation.

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    Back in the day, looks like some of the local leadership were sellouts making backroom deals. The video below is in pahari-pothwari about what happened. If you don't understand, it has subtitles in English (probably have to open it up in Youtube):

    Last edited by maverick85; 21st January 2021 at 22:47.


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    Remember reading about these massacres in 'Shahabnama'. Some instances that he mentioned were horrifying. So many Muslims killed in such short span of time. I am proud that ordinary people (civilians) from my village who had nothing to do with Kashmir went there to wage jihad against dogras and sent them to hell. Its a pity that hundreds of thousands of innocent Kashmiri Muslims were already killed by then in the streets of Jammu. May Allah protect the oppressed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Its not just a narrative. It is backed by documented facts so idk what you are talking about.
    I've heard about sushil pandit. Even though he is clearly a hindutva extremist trying to cash in on the suffering of Pandits, i partly agree with him. No one denies that pandits suffered. However, like all hindutva extremists, he exaggerates to biblical proportions and mentions things which simply did not happen. Most of those spewing venom on television had never even lived in Kashmir, like Anupam kher or even Suresh Raina. They just want to ride the wave.
    So anyone who does not agree with you are Hindutva extremists. Alright Buddy.

    So Sushil Pandit who lost his family and who has seen women getting raped and Masjids issuing warning signs asking Pandits to flee from valley are all peaceful then. Good to know. You have a narrative with some facts the same way Pandits also have their own story.
    Right now the fact is, Pandits fleed from the valley. So you have to believe that there is truth to their story as well. You cannot call people who like to hear both sides of the story as extremists.
    Raina and Kher never lived in Kashmir as they were kicked out of their homes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    Remember reading about these massacres in 'Shahabnama'. Some instances that he mentioned were horrifying. So many Muslims killed in such short span of time. I am proud that ordinary people (civilians) from my village who had nothing to do with Kashmir went there to wage jihad against dogras and sent them to hell. Its a pity that hundreds of thousands of innocent Kashmiri Muslims were already killed by then in the streets of Jammu. May Allah protect the oppressed.
    The first paragraph in Wiki shows that 1947 massacres, thousands of Muslims and Hindus both died.

    Why do you cry only about Muslims that were killed by Hari Singh and his Dogra army? What about Non-Muslims killed by Pakistani Tribes men and Army. They massacred 20,000 Hindus and Sikhs. Any tear for them too.

    People from both sides were killed. Why point out as though only Muslims were killed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    The first paragraph in Wiki shows that 1947 massacres, thousands of Muslims and Hindus both died.

    Why do you cry only about Muslims that were killed by Hari Singh and his Dogra army? What about Non-Muslims killed by Pakistani Tribes men and Army. They massacred 20,000 Hindus and Sikhs. Any tear for them too.

    People from both sides were killed. Why point out as though only Muslims were killed?
    Read OP. This thread is about Jammu massacres where Muslims genocide was carried out by dogras in an attempt to make them minority. You can cry about others in relevant thread. Btw, this is your Wikipedia paragraph,

    After the Partition of India, during October–November 1947 in the Jammu region of the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir, many Muslims were massacred and others driven away to West Punjab. The killings were carried out by extremist Hindus and Sikhs, aided and abetted by the forces of Maharaja Hari Singh.[9] The activists of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) played a key role in planning and executing the riots.[2][10] An estimated 20,000–100,000 Muslims were massacred.[6] Subsequently, many non-Muslims, estimated as over 20,000, were massacred by Pakistani tribesmen and soldiers, in the Mirpur region of today's Pakistani administered Kashmir.[11][12][8] Many Hindus and Sikhs were also massacred in the Rajouri area of Jammu division.[2]

    And to think that these RSS goons are ruling India these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    Read OP. This thread is about Jammu massacres where Muslims genocide was carried out by dogras in an attempt to make them minority. You can cry about others in relevant thread. Btw, this is your Wikipedia paragraph,

    After the Partition of India, during October–November 1947 in the Jammu region of the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir, many Muslims were massacred and others driven away to West Punjab. The killings were carried out by extremist Hindus and Sikhs, aided and abetted by the forces of Maharaja Hari Singh.[9] The activists of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) played a key role in planning and executing the riots.[2][10] An estimated 20,000–100,000 Muslims were massacred.[6] Subsequently, many non-Muslims, estimated as over 20,000, were massacred by Pakistani tribesmen and soldiers, in the Mirpur region of today's Pakistani administered Kashmir.[11][12][8] Many Hindus and Sikhs were also massacred in the Rajouri area of Jammu division.[2]

    And to think that these RSS goons are ruling India these days.
    The massacre committed by Pak Army and Tribesmen in POK and Mirpur is also as deplorable as the Jammu one committed by Dogra army. It is a blot in the history of India when the same people kill each other because of religious differences.

    These massacres go on to show how fanaticism can make killers out of ordinary people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    The killing fields of Jammu: How Muslims become a minority in the region

    What was the death toll in the killing fields of Jammu? There are no official figures, so one has to go by reports in the British press of that period. Horace Alexander’s article on 16 January 1948 in The Spectator is much quoted; he put the number killed at 200,000.

    To quote a 10 August 1948 report published in The Times, London: “2,37,000 Muslims were systematically exterminated – unless they escaped to Pakistan along the border – by the forces of the Dogra State headed by the Maharaja in person and aided by Hindus and Sikhs. This happened in October 1947, five days before the Pathan invasion and nine days before the Maharaja’s accession to india.” Reportedly, as a result of the massacre/migration, Muslims who were a majority (61 per cent) in the Jammu region became a minority.

    Mountbatten was in control in Delhi and had news of the genocide of Muslims in Jammu filtered out of the media. Sadly, there has been precious little discussion in India about this horrible phase of history.
    Maharaja Hari Singh’s involvement, with the support of the RSS, is evident from a letter Jawaharlal Nehru wrote to Vallabhbhai Patel on 17 April 1949 (quoted in Frontline magazine):

    In this (intelligence) report, among other things, a reference was made to a growing Hindu agitation in Jammu province for what is called a zonal plebiscite. This idea is based on the belief that a plebiscite for the whole of Kashmir is bound to be lost and, therefore, let us save Jammu at least. You will perhaps remember that some proposal of this kind was put forward by the Maharaja some months back. it seems to me that this kind of propaganda is very harmful, indeed, for us. Whatever may happen in the future, I do not think Jammu province is running away from us. If we want Jammu province by itself and are prepared to make a present of the rest of the State to Pakistan, I have no doubt we could clinch the issue in a few days. The prize we are fighting for is the valley of Kashmir. [This is what Nehru had dug in his heels for. The consequences are for all to see to this day.]


    This propaganda for a zonal plebiscite is going on in Jammu, in Delhi and elsewhere. It is carried on by what is known as the Jammu Praja Parishad. Our intelligence officer reported that this Praja Parishad is financed by the Maharaja. Further, that the large sums collected for the Dharmarth Fund, which are controlled by the Maharaja, are being spent in propaganda for him.


    The lid on these massacres was lifted by Ved Bhasin and a few journalists of that time. But like the collective silence over the pogrom in Hyderabad, the holocaust in Jammu has been a story hidden from public view by the machinations of the very people who covertly allowed the massacres to take place. These included many in the national leadership of the Congress party at the time. The events of Hyderabad and Jammu and Kashmir reveal the emergence in New Delhi of an establishment which was indifferent to Indian Muslims.

    Consider the testimony of journalist Ved Bhasin. Here I am again quoting from his paper presented at the Jammu University in 2003.

    Communal tension was building up in Jammu soon after the announcement of the Mountbatten plan with the Hindu Sabha, RSS and the Muslim Conference trying to incite communal passions. Tension increased with a large number of Hindus and Sikhs migrating to the State from Punjab and NWFP and even from areas now under Pakistan’s control. Trouble was brewing in Poonch, where a popular non-communal agitation was launched after the Maharaja’s administration took over the erstwhile jagir under its direct control and imposed some taxes. The mishandling of this agitation and use of brutal force by the Maharaja’s administration inflamed the passions, turning this non-communal struggle into a communal strife.

    The Maharaja’s administration had not only asked all Muslims to surrender their arms but also demobilised a large number of Muslim soldiers in the Dogra army and the Muslim police officers, whose loyalty it suspected. The Maharaja’s visit to Bhimber was followed by large-scale killings.

    According to Bhasin, the communal flare-up was the worst in Jammu. “Rumours were spread about Muslims arming themselves and planning to attack hindus to justify the communal carnage that took place later.” According to the 1941 census, the Muslim population of Jammu province was over 12 lakh; the total population was 20 lakh. Jammu district had a population of about 4.5 lakh with the Muslims accounting for 1.7 lakh. The population of the capital city of Jammu was just 50,000, Muslims constituting nearly 16,000. By September end, a large number of Muslims from the border areas of Bishnah, RS Pura, Akhnoor, etc. had fled to Sialkot in Pakistan. With communal riots taking place in neighbouring Punjab there was total panic in the border areas.
    Bhasin reports the large-scale killing of Muslims in Udhampur district, particularly in Udhampur proper, Chenani, Ramnagar and Reasi areas. Even in Bhaderwah (about 150 kilometres from Udhampur), a number of Muslims were victims of communal marauders. According to Bhasin, the RSS played a key role in these killings, aided by armed Sikh refugees “who even paraded the Jammu streets with their naked swords”. Some of those who led the riots in Udhampur and Bhaderwah later joined the National Conference and some even served as ministers. There were reports of Muslims massacred in Chhamb, Deva Batala, Manawsar and other parts of Akhnoor, with several of them fleeing to the other side or moving to Jammu. In Kathua district too there was the large-scale killing of Muslims and reports of women being raped and abducted.

    As for the attitude of the state, Bhasin alleges that instead of preventing these communal killings and fostering an atmosphere of peace, “the Maharaja’s administration helped and even armed the communal marauders”. He goes on to say that many Muslims living outside Muslim-dominated areas were brutally killed by the rioters who moved freely in vehicles with arms and ammunition even when the city was officially under curfew. “The curfew it appeared was meant only to check the movement of Muslims,” he says.
    Terrible carnage took place later when the Muslims in Talab Khatikan area were asked to surrender.

    They were shifted to the police lines at Jogi gate, where now Delhi Public School is situated. Instead of providing them security, the administration encouraged them to go to Pakistan for safety. The first batch of several thousands of these Muslims were loaded in about sixty lorries to take them to Sialkot. Unaware of what is going to happen to them these families boarded the buses. The vehicles were escorted by troops. But when they reached near Chattha on Jammu-Sialkot road, in the outskirts of the city, a large number of armed RSS men and Sikh refugees were positioned there.

    They were pulled out of the vehicles and killed mercilessly with the soldiers either joining [in] or looking [on] as idle spectators. The news about the massacre was kept a closely guarded secret. next day another batch of these Muslim families were similarly boarded in the vehicles and met the same fate. [T]hose who somehow managed to escape the wrath of killers reached Sialkot to narrate their tale of woe…

    The state administration denied it had any role in the massacres. It even feigned ignorance of any plans to change the demography of the Jammu region. But Bhasin differs:

    Though polite, he warned me of dire consequences…he first warned me by saying that “I could have put you behind bars for your nefarious activities. But since you also happen to be a Khatri like me and are also related to me, i am simply giving you advice. It is not the time to form peace committees and work for peace but to defend Hindus and Sikhs from the Muslim communalists who are planning to kill them and destabilise the situation. We have already formed a Hindu Sikh Defence Committee. You and your colleagues better support it.” Then he added, “We are imparting armed training to Hindu and Sikh boys in Rehari area. You and your colleagues should better join such training.” When i sent a colleague to the training camp the next day he found that some RSS youths and others were being given training in the use of .303 rifles by soldiers.

    Another incident that I recall is about Mr Mehr Chand Mahajan (the then prime minister) who told a delegation of Hindus who met him in the palace when he arrived in Jammu that now when the power is being transferred to the people they should demand parity. [One] of them associated with National Conference asked how can they demand parity when there is so much difference in population ratio. Pointing to the Ramnagarrakh below, where some bodies of Muslims were still lying he said “the population ratio too can change”.

    Mahatma Gandhi did comment on the situation in Jammu on 25 December 1947 and his remarks have found mention in volume 90 of his Collected Works: “The Hindus and Sikhs of Jammu and those who had gone there from outside killed Muslims. The Maharaja of Kashmir is responsible for what is happening there…Muslim women have been dishonoured.”

    https://amp.scroll.in/article/811468...mpression=true
    I don't have much knowledge about this issue, but it appears to me that during the Partition, majority communities (Hindus or Muslims) attacked the minorities in places like Punjab, Sindh, Bengal, J&K etc. If this is not correct you can provide me more accurate information. Mentioning just one area where gives a distorted picture of what happened. Not that killing in one place justifies killing in another, but if you start picking and choosing to highlight certain events during the Partition, then the other side can do it too.

    Some of my father's relatives were killed in East Pakistan around the time of the Partition, and more during 1971. Not something I spend much time thinking about.
    Last edited by Napa; 22nd January 2021 at 11:04.

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    22nd January: Anniversary of the Alamgari Bazar massacre

    The Gaw Kadal massacre marks the beginning of a series of massacres in Kashmir during the past 22 years.

    On January 21, 1990, CRPF allegedly fired discriminately at peaceful protestors killing over 50 persons while hurting scores of others.
    The protestors were holding demonstration against the alleged molestation of women by troops during search operation following the kidnapping of Rubiya Syed, daughter of former chief minister Mufti Muhammad Sayeed.

    The very next day, on January 22, 1990, indiscriminate firing at peaceful demonstrators allegedly by CRPF killed 10 people besides causing injuries to 16 at Alamgari Bazar, Srinagar.

    https://www.google.com/amp/kashmirgl...jkccs.html/amp

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    So anyone who does not agree with you are Hindutva extremists. Alright Buddy.

    So Sushil Pandit who lost his family and who has seen women getting raped and Masjids issuing warning signs asking Pandits to flee from valley are all peaceful then. Good to know.
    Did i ever deny that excesses were made against pandits by the militants? What i deny is that it was of communal nature. Informers were attacked irrespective of their religion. We also deny that pandits were forced to flee by the community of Kashmiri muslims. It simply isnt possible. Maybe in some individual cases it could be true (i am assuming this) because there are a few vile people everywhere but to say that all 100k of pandits were forced out by muslims is something the muslims were never capable of. It is an insane exaggeration and a lie. Kashmiris have maintained that the exodus was orchestrated by the state to be able to carry out purges against pro-freedom muslims. The government even facilitated the exodus by providing govt. transport (instead of providing security). However, an environment of fear and confusion which every Kashmiri was living in was what made it possible. The letters written by pandits in exile, apologizing for leaving their Kashmiri muslim brothers alone to suffer testify that Indian politicians had come to Pandit leader with a cry to help them "save dharma".

    You have a narrative with some facts the same way Pandits also have their own story.
    Right now the fact is, Pandits fleed from the valley. So you have to believe that there is truth to their story as well. You cannot call people who like to hear both sides of the story as extremists.
    There is truth to their story of course. Thy have suffered a lot. However, most of their elders choose to stay away from making any statements against Kashmiri muslims. Probably because they know the truth but cannot afford to say it. Its only a select few (like in every community) who decide to be vocal, exaggerate in order to get the best deals out of it. What line will you toe if you were a pandit in this situation? Telling the complete truth will not serve you at all and in fact will destroy you even further because the hindutva majority will be antagonised. And hence, majority of them stay silent, a few of them work to further the interests of their community. And if you read history of Kashmir under various rulers, there is actually a pattern to this behaviour.


    Raina and Kher never lived in Kashmir as they were kicked out of their homes.
    Lolwut? Their families had migrated to better pastures in the 60s and 70s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    I don't have much knowledge about this issue, but it appears to me that during the Partition, majority communities (Hindus or Muslims) attacked the minorities in places like Punjab, Sindh, Bengal, J&K etc. If this is not correct you can provide me more accurate information. Mentioning just one area where gives a distorted picture of what happened. Not that killing in one place justifies killing in another, but if you start picking and choosing to highlight certain events during the Partition, then the other side can do it too.

    Some of my father's relatives were killed in East Pakistan around the time of the Partition, and more during 1971. Not something I spend much time thinking about.
    You do realize that OP is from Kashmir, like literally the Indian occupied part. He has every right to talk about his region and isn't obligated to mention every other atrocitiy committed in the subcontinent at the time. Also Jammu & Kashmir was a Princely state that was semi independent from the British Raj unlike Punjab, Bengal and other regions where there were massacres due to partition, the partition didn't impact J&K as princely states were treated differently and it was up to them to decide whether to join India or Pakistan, more over these mass killings were supported by the Dogra ruler of the princely state unlike in Punjab and other areas where the people governing weren't involved in the killings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    You do realize that OP is from Kashmir, like literally the Indian occupied part. He has every right to talk about his region and isn't obligated to mention every other atrocitiy committed in the subcontinent at the time.
    Yes, I know he is from Kashmir. I am not saying he doesn't have a "right" to talk about his region, my point is that he is more likely to get a hearing from non-Kashmiris if he is balanced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Yes, I know he is from Kashmir. I am not saying he doesn't have a "right" to talk about his region, my point is that he is more likely to get a hearing from non-Kashmiris if he is balanced.
    balanced about what? He's talking about massacres in his land and you're trying to sidetrack this by bringing up events that happened in other places in the subcontinent. If you didn't want to hear about atrocities committed in Kashmir then you shouldn't have clicked on this thread. This thread is about Kashmir.

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    I recently read about a million deaths in bengal during british reign because of starvation as they diverted the food to the war zones. History hasn't been kind to the sub continent. This is extreme cruelty and most of these aren't even public knowledge.

    The heart of the matter is water. Pakistan or India couldn't care less about Kashmiris. If they do, they'd help the Kashmiris and forget the land. Land isn't more important than lives.

    The Kashmiris are stubborn as well. They don't want to move. They don't want any other religion to survive there. They don't want to prosper. Generations will be wasted but the status quo won't change as all three parties just want one thing. The land. They don't care about anything else. If the Kashmiris in Pakistan rebel, they will be massacred as well. Just as it's on the Indian side. A few generations will be wasted and these yester year stories of old massacres will fall to.deaf ears. New generations and leaders will hopefully emerge that understand the value of life more than land. New technologies will emerge that will make it cheaper to fetch usable water from the oceans. We hope.and wait for that time. Nothing will.be done until.then. The cribbing and crying while being stubborn didn't help the Palestinians and I'm sure it won't do.any good for the Kashmiris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    The Kashmiris are stubborn as well. They don't want to move. They don't want any other religion to survive there. They don't want to prosper.
    Ladies and gentleman, take a look at this. This is what dehumanisation looks like. This is what India has tried to convince the world about. A Kashmiri is an intolerant extremist for not succumbing to Hindutva colonization of their land. Because the Kashmiris dont want to bow down to the Indian military might and Indian evil attempts of obliterating their identity, Indians think Kashmiris dont want to prosper. Kashmiris are projected as some programmed robots with no feelings or empathy or aspirations of a better future.

    THIS IS WHAT FASCISM ENABLERS LOOK LIKE AND THIS IS HOW THEY DEHUMANISE THE PEOPLE OF A COLONIZED LAND IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY AN ACTIVE GENOCIDE.

    Generations will be wasted but the status quo won't change as all three parties just want one thing. The land. They don't care about anything else.
    Can you hear yourself? Of course the Kashmiris want the land. IT IS THEIR LAND. What are you blabbering about?

    If the Kashmiris in Pakistan rebel, they will be massacred as well. Just as it's on the Indian side.
    Why would they rebel against Pakistan? This is like saying "if Uttar pradesh rebels against India....". Makes no sense.


    A few generations will be wasted and these yester year stories of old massacres will fall to.deaf ears. New generations and leaders will hopefully emerge that understand the value of life more than land. New technologies will emerge that will make it cheaper to fetch usable water from the oceans. We hope.and wait for that time. Nothing will.be done until.then. The cribbing and crying while being stubborn didn't help the Palestinians and I'm sure it won't do.any good for the Kashmiris.
    We shall see. An example will be made out of all the arrogant fascists. An example which their next generations will remember only to shiver and shake in their beds.

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    Send a million cowards armed to teeth to oppress the poor, old, women and children.

    Don't let foreign media step inside the region.

    Cut internet, all means of communication.

    Have an army of skinny fat trolls hidden behind fake ngos, srivastav groups and dead people's names to spit filthy lies on internet.

    And finally, blame everything on Pakistan.

    I know real Kashmiris from Kashmir, and we all know what they say about India and its fascist government...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    You didn't even understand what I wrote.

    Read again.

    The people who shout at the top of their lungs in other threads for Kashmir is missing here.

    PP is a sample of Pakistani community especially British ones and small sample size may as well skew the actual perception but it also shows faces of people who superficially stands with Kashmir only to take anti India stand.

    You are not one of those. But 90% of those Pakistani are. They have no interest in Kashmir, they are voicing because it is against India.

    Learn the difference.
    This right here is prime display of a brainwashed fanatic hinduvta bakht.

    They have no interest in Kashmir, they are voicing because it is against India.
    Yep, the 90% of us Pakistanis sit around and conspire how to destroy India

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    Handwara massacre anniversary

    Handwara Massacre| Jan 25, 1990: When 21 people fell to BSF bullets


    Twenty-one people fell to bullets of the paramilitary BSF men in this frontier town on Jan 25, 1990 , barely four days after Gaw Kadal massacre in Srinagar where 52 unarmed civilians were shot dead by the paramilitary CRPF men.

    The Handwara blood bath was carried out when around 10,000 people were heading towards Handwara Chowk to protest against the Gawkadal massacre.

    Twenty-one people fell to bullets of the paramilitary BSF men in this frontier town on Jan 25, 1990 , barely four days after Gaw Kadal massacre in Srinagar where 52 unarmed civilians were shot dead by the paramilitary CRPF men.

    SURVIVORS NARRATE ORDEAL

    Ghulam Rasool Khan


    “It had been almost a year now that resistance had been gradually spreading in Kashmir. Month of January brought with it news of heavy deployment of BSF and CRPF in the Valley.



    Massive protests and curfews in Kashmir had become order of the day by that time. Soon news of Jagmohan taking over as the Governor of J&K was received and on the first night of Jagmohan’s tenure curfew was imposed in the entire Valley.



    On Jan 21, 22, 23, 24 there were massive protests in entire Kashmir including Handwara town of Kupwara district against the Gawkadal massacre. On Jan 24, an organized protest programme was devised and all the people were asked to assemble at Handwara chowk and take part in protest demonstration.



    On Jan 25, thousands of people from Ramhal, Vilgam, Rajwar, Kandi, Nagarwari, Qaziabad, Qalamabad, Kulangam and adjoining areas started pouring in at Handwara Chowk.



    In Handwara, people were hoisting green flags amid pro-freedom, anti- India and anti-Jagmohan slogans at the time.



    At around 11 am, a large procession from Ramhal area had reached Handwara chowk via Magam route.

    A TATA- 407 vehicle of BSF from Waripora Handwara, (No. HVN-7717) appeared near police station Handwara and tried to make its way through the procession, protestors didn’t allow it to pass on, this infuriated the BSF men who opened fire on the unarmed protestors, there was retaliation from the protestors who resorted to stone pelting, and they even set the BSF vehicle on fire.



    BSF troopers showered the bullets entered into the police station Handwara and ransacked the records and furniture in there and beat up police men.

    Habibullah Khan

    "When the procession was passing though Handwara Police Station, the BSF fired at us," recalled Habibullah Khan a survivor who was part of the procession.



    According to Khan, people were protesting peacefully when troopers opened fire at them. "Suddenly people hit by bullets were falling in front of me. Some of them died on the spot. I could see the bodies of Muhammad Shafi War of Divaspora, Shafi Khan of Sodal, Nazir Ahmad Dar of Braripora, Shiefud-din Khan of Wullarhama, Ghulam Muhammad Sheikh of Wajhama, Ghulam Muhammad Beigh of Wudpora, Ali Mohammad Itto of Chogal, Ghulam Muhammad War and Muhammad Amin Masala both residents of Kulangam receiving bullets and dying in front of me. Many others were critically injured," he said.

    Khan added that the mere thought of that day sends shivers down his spine. "The BSF troopers had gone berserk. Doomsday cannot be worse than what I witnessed. Within minutes bodies were piling on streets and blood was scattered everywhere.I escaped miraculously in the indiscriminate firing, BSF men didn’t allow us initially to remove the injured to the hospital,” he added.



    MAJBOOR KASHMIRI

    While recounting the moments Majboor Kasmiri a local journalist said: “I was near police station and saw the first bullet fired by a BSF man and hitting one Ghulam Muhammad Khoja of Kulangam who used to work as a vendor at Handwara. A bullets pierced through his head and dropped him dead. By that time we could hardly know that bullets of SLR guns could kill a person. They were showering volley of bullets and we were throwing stones on them”.



    Second man who fell to bullets was Abdul Rashid a resident of Hanga Handwara. “Rashid’ body was lying near a wall of the police station. BSF men sitting other side of the wall were firing indiscriminately. I mustered courage and dragged the body of the Rashid despite firing thinking that he might be alive”.



    Muhammad Maqbool Mir

    Muhammad Maqbool Mir a shopkeeper in his forties said that I was 15 years old then. As firing started I saw several people falling to bullets. I jumped into police station and took refuge in the Munishyat room of Handwara police station and hid myself under a table. Firing was continuing, by the time bodies were dumped by some police men into the compound of police station. BSF men were on killing spree, a Policeman saw me hiding under the table and told me that they (BSF) men will not spare me.”



    Policeman asked me to lay on the ground and he caught hold of me from my leg and dragged me towards the bodies and dumped me there within minutes several dead bodies were piled on and I was lying under a body. Blood oozing out of a body was pouring on my clothes and a BSF man aiming his gun approached towards me and left me presuming me dead after seeing blood on my clothes.



    Again a policeman came told me that you will be taken to hospital among the dead bodies. Again I was dragged out and dumped in a police truck, I could see the bodies lying in a truck and hear the screams of injured, some injured were succumbing to their injures and I could hear so many people reciting Kalima while succumbing. I could feel the hot blood oozing out of the bodies trickling on my face.



    By 2 pm firing stopped. I was dumped in mortuary which was located in a make shift tin shed at district hospital Handwara, when a civilian touched me I whispered that I am alive. The news of my death had spread like a wild fire. Even my parents and relatives had dug up a grave for me.



    I was taken to my home and my parents and relatives were shocked to see me alive.



    Manzoor Ahmad Sheikh

    I was then 15 years old, by the time all the people had reached Handwara chowk. I along with my elder brother Shamesdin and my father Ghulam Mohammad Sheikh were part of the protest demonstration.

    A BSF soldier sitting under the cover of a shop fired indiscriminately on the protestors. I was holding the hand of my father and I saw a bullet hitting his head, he didn’t leave my hand, despite receiving a bullet, again the trooper aimed and fired at the chest of my father, I saw my father falling on the ground and shouting run away Manzoor, save your life. Even today I recall the last words of my father.



    Javaid Zargar

    There was no place in the wards of the hospital. We brought the beds out the hospital and placed them in the park of the hospital, we on our own started providing first aid to the injured, critically injured persons were taken to Baramulla hospital. Women and youth of Handwara were leading from the front to treat the injured; Women had brought the water for the injured. Curfew was imposed in the entire town around 4 pm. Defying the curfew agitated protestors set on fire the government buildings including walnut factory at Magam, Hortiuculture produce marketing centre Budkoot, Forest division Langate, Dak Bunglow Handwara, and Range office quarters etc. Despite curfew people reached the homes of the deceased persons and participated their funeral prayers.



    Curfew in Handwara and its adjoining areas continued for 9 consecutive days.



    CASE

    An FIR vide NO- 10/1990 stands registered at Police station Handwara under sections 307, 151, 53, 427, 336, 449, 448, 436, 435–A. Police have cited that all the accused BSF men are untraceable.



    "Till this date the government has no answer to our queries as to what led to this massacre. Killed persons were not militants but civilians who were protesting peacefully," locals of Handwara said.



    Handwara witnessed one of the worst massacres in the history of Kashmir, people still remember the bloodbath.



    Twenty-one protesters were killed in cold blood, and 75 were injured on January 25, 1990.

    https://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/...mpression=true

  37. #37
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    What @Itachi mentioned was actually correct.

    Most people do not care about Kashmir itself, it is more of a tool for them to propagate their hatred for India.

    Moreover, the actual Pakistanis, i.e. the ones who are living in Pakistan do not care either apart from the media and the social media activists.

    People are too busy and caught up with their own problems to worry about Kashmir.

    A street-vendor whose purchasing power has reduced by more than half due to the policies of PTI government is not going to bother about the oppression of Kashmiris, and he will have no problem with Pakistan giving up Kashmir to focus on the problems of its own people.

    The people are mostly vocal are overseas Pakistanis, especially the UK ones.

    In terms of Pakistan’s foreign policy, the Kashmir conflict is a tool for the military establishment to maintain its stronghold on the country.

    The day the Kashmir issue is resolved will be the day the military’s role in politics and economics is diminished, and they cannot afford that. They cannot give up the privileges and luxuries that they have enjoyed since 1948.

    The people of Kashmir need to realize that Pakistan does not care about them. They only pretend to care to serve their own interests.

    Should a day come where Pakistan would benefit from oppressing Kashmir, it will not hesitate.
    Last edited by The Viper; 26th January 2021 at 00:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    I recently read about a million deaths in bengal during british reign because of starvation as they diverted the food to the war zones. History hasn't been kind to the sub continent. This is extreme cruelty and most of these aren't even public knowledge.

    The heart of the matter is water. Pakistan or India couldn't care less about Kashmiris. If they do, they'd help the Kashmiris and forget the land. Land isn't more important than lives.

    The Kashmiris are stubborn as well. They don't want to move. They don't want any other religion to survive there. They don't want to prosper. Generations will be wasted but the status quo won't change as all three parties just want one thing. The land. They don't care about anything else. If the Kashmiris in Pakistan rebel, they will be massacred as well. Just as it's on the Indian side. A few generations will be wasted and these yester year stories of old massacres will fall to.deaf ears. New generations and leaders will hopefully emerge that understand the value of life more than land. New technologies will emerge that will make it cheaper to fetch usable water from the oceans. We hope.and wait for that time. Nothing will.be done until.then. The cribbing and crying while being stubborn didn't help the Palestinians and I'm sure it won't do.any good for the Kashmiris.
    Pakistan and India already signed the Indus Water Treaty, so water is a non issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    What @What Itachi mentioned was actually correct.

    Most people do not care about Kashmir itself, it is more of a tool for them to propagate their hatred for India.

    Moreover, the actual Pakistanis, i.e. the ones who are living in Pakistan do not care either apart from the media and the social media activists.

    People are too busy and caught up with their own problems to worry about Kashmir.

    A street-vendor whose purchasing power has reduced by more than half due to the policies of PTI government is not going to bother about the oppression of Kashmiris, and he will have no problem with Pakistan giving up Kashmir to focus on the problems of its own people.

    The people are mostly vocal are overseas Pakistanis, especially the UK ones.

    In terms of Pakistan’s foreign policy, the Kashmir conflict is a tool for the military establishment to maintain its stronghold on the country.

    The day the Kashmir issue is resolved will be the day the military’s role in politics and economics is diminished, and they cannot afford that. They cannot give up the privileges and luxuries that they have enjoyed since 1948.

    The people of Kashmir need to realize that Pakistan does not care about them. They only pretend to care to serve their own interests.

    Should a day come where Pakistan would benefit from oppressing Kashmir, it will not hesitate.
    The amount of gutter you post is absolute unreal. We Pakistanis do care about Kashmiris and the region, be it in Pakistan or outside of it. A region which is militarized by half a million for 70 odd years is not occupation according to you isn't it? Don't bother speaking for other Pakistanis, we can clearly see the viewpoint rest of Pakistanis hold for you so don't get carried away with your delusions.
    Last edited by The Viper; 26th January 2021 at 00:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    The massacre committed by Pak Army and Tribesmen in POK and Mirpur is also as deplorable as the Jammu one committed by Dogra army. It is a blot in the history of India when the same people kill each other because of religious differences.

    These massacres go on to show how fanaticism can make killers out of ordinary people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    I don't have much knowledge about this issue, but it appears to me that during the Partition, majority communities (Hindus or Muslims) attacked the minorities in places like Punjab, Sindh, Bengal, J&K etc. If this is not correct you can provide me more accurate information. Mentioning just one area where gives a distorted picture of what happened. Not that killing in one place justifies killing in another, but if you start picking and choosing to highlight certain events during the Partition, then the other side can do it too.

    Some of my father's relatives were killed in East Pakistan around the time of the Partition, and more during 1971. Not something I spend much time thinking about.
    This is true, and why its important for Pakistan and India to teach their people the same history. Both sides focus more on the atrocities the other did. And not just during partition, but long before that. So maybe a solution could be to have the best historians write a neutral history of the subcontinent, and have everyone learn that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Whether I agree or disagree with the thread, the attention that's given to this thread shows how the supposed the "allies of Kashmir" actually have an agenda of anti India rather than anything to do with Kashmir.

    One should ask the question, why this thread is still lacking the attention that other threads on Kashmir do gets?

    Reason is simple. The mentioning of modern India and current affairs are not present in OP rather OP refers to narratives of past. This doesn't suit the agenda of allies in any shape or form.

    If one truly believes these "allies" have their best interest in heart, then it's already clear what the actual agenda is.
    If a Pakistani raises Khalistan, Dalit rights, Nagaland, etc then its obviously politics against India, then any true concern about those people.

    However the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis care about Kashmirs, and Indian Muslims, as they have religion and culture in common. Thats just how they feel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    If a Pakistani raises Khalistan, Dalit rights, Nagaland, etc then its obviously politics against India, then any true concern about those people.

    However the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis care about Kashmirs, and Indian Muslims, as they have religion and culture in common. Thats just how they feel.
    Right you are. But the lack of response towards sentiments of Kashmir in past events in the absence of role of India surely shows that those Pakistani have anti India agenda rather than anything to do with Kashmir. Don't you think so?

    Except a few pak ppers including you, where are those others who are so much vocal when a Kashmir thread is started?

    Mad player has true intentions in his heart and I may disagree with his overall opinion but respect where it's due, he's been consistent across the subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Right you are. But the lack of response towards sentiments of Kashmir in past events in the absence of role of India surely shows that those Pakistani have anti India agenda rather than anything to do with Kashmir. Don't you think so?

    Except a few pak ppers including you, where are those others who are so much vocal when a Kashmir thread is started?

    Mad player has true intentions in his heart and I may disagree with his overall opinion but respect where it's due, he's been consistent across the subject.
    No, i think its more because there is nothing to debate among Pakistanis. Thats the purpose of having forums, to discuss different topics, and when the entire population has the same opinion on Kashmir, a thread on Kashmir wont really have much volume.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    No, i think its more because there is nothing to debate among Pakistanis. Thats the purpose of having forums, to discuss different topics, and when the entire population has the same opinion on Kashmir, a thread on Kashmir wont really have much volume.
    Your post echoed exactly what I wrote and suffered from the same symptoms I outlined.

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    26 January 1998- When 23 Kashmiri Pandits were Shot Dead by Unidentified Gunmen at Wandhama

    More than two decades ago, on an ill-fated day of 26th of January in 1998, 23 non – migrant Kashmiri Pandits were killed mercilessly by uniformed unidentified gunmen in Wandhama village of central Kashmir’s Ganderbal district. According to the locals, the massacre has left a deep scar and shall forever remind them of the loss of their Pandit brothers.

    A majority of this community had migrated to Jammu in the wake of militancy and exodus in Kashmir.

    The locals have said that they were inside a local Mosque offering special prayers on that night as it was Shab -I- Qadr, when they heard some gunshots and cries. As they progressed to the cries, they saw burning houses of their Pandit neighbors and their dead bodies, in a pool of blood.

    The slain included the family members of four families and at least 5 guests who had come from Jammu to visit their relatives here. According to the locals, the victims were ‘symbols of communal harmony’ and had resisted migration.

    According to a report by Greater Kashmir, Sajad Ahmed, a local said, “It was like the killing of the whole humanity and we still remember the ill-fated incident and we will never forget that night.”

    Another local cried that they couldn’t believe their eyes were seeing their neighbors falling prey to an inhuman act. He said, “We always shared our joy and sorrow with our Pandit brothers and those are the unforgettable days they shared with us.”

    The residential houses that belong to the victim of the massacre have been in damaged conditions since and all locals are disheartened to see these houses without their Pandit owners.

    The locals added that many of the Pandits who had migrated from Wandhama to Jammu before the incident here, very often come to meet their (Muslim) friends and neighbors here. The count of the killed, according to reports was 23, out of which, there were 4 children, 9 women, and 10 men.

    Meanwhile, President Kashmiri Pandit Sangharsh Samiti (KPSS) Sanjay Tikoo spoke to greater Kashmir termed the incident as unforgettable. Although a case was registered, it was unfortunately closed in 2008 for non – availability of evidence.

    Several reports and complaints were filed at State Human Rights Commission regarding the closure of the case and since they have sought a probe into the incident.

    “We were provided with the details by the police department that the massacre was carried out by 21 foreign militants and 20 of them have been killed in different encounters and one is at large still,” Sanjay concluded.

    http://thekashmiriyat.co.uk/26-janua...-wandhama/amp/

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    27th january, Kupwara massacre Anniversary

    1994 Kupwara Massacre: 27 civilians shot dead for 'observing shutdown on Jan 26'


    The survivors allege that the massacre was carried out by the soldiers to punish the people for observing shutdown on January 26.
    It was on 27 January 1994 that 27 civilians, mostly traders of Kupwara town, fell to bullets of Army men here adding to the long list of killings of innocent civilians in such massacres carried out by forces in the Valley

    The survivors allege that the massacre was carried out by the soldiers to punish the people for observing shutdown on January 26.


    SURVIVORS RECOUNT THE MASSACRE:


    Gulam Hassan, a trader of Kupwara town: “A patrol party of Punjab regiment of Army had warned the shopkeepers on the eve of January 26 of dire consequences if they observe strike and didn’t celebrate the R-day. On 24 January 1994 some Army men and policemen entered into a verbal duel near old bridge Kupwara and soldiers threatened police of dire consequences after Jan 26 passes off peacefully. Next day on Jan 25 some Army personnel called out worshipers from Jamia Masjid Kupwara and thrashed them including Imam of the Masjid. On Jan 26 as usual people of Kupwara observed complete shutdown. Next day early in the morning we met the then district magistrate Kupwara Yaseen Shah at his residential quarter and brought the excesses and thrashing of Imam into his notice who assured us that matter will be taken up with the concerned army higher ups.”

    “We returned after meeting the DC. As we were about to reach the old bridge a single firing shot was heard which was followed by a rain of bullets. All were seen running for safety, the firing lasted at least for an hour. I hid in a vegetable shop. After a lull I came out of the shop and there were horrific scenes of bloodbath all around.”

    “Among the 27 people killed by Army, mostly were traders, some government employees and a policeman. As many as 38 persons were injured, some left handicapped for life.”



    GULAM MOHI-UD-DIN MIR:

    “It was a foggy morning of Jan 27. The shopkeepers had hardly opened their shops. I was accompanying my brother Gulam Nabi Malik, working in social forestry department, who was going to attend his duties at Divisional Forest Office Zangli. As we reached near SDH Kupwara around 10:30 a.m. we heard some gun shots and within seconds there was firing from all directions. A soldier at hospital road aimed at my brother who was wearing a Khaki jacket and shot at him. Several bullets pierced his chest and he fell on ground. He started bleeding profusely. I was not allowed to lift my brother and take it to hospital which was hardly 50 yards away from the spot. Resultantly, my brother died on the spot. I along with some other people took shelter on the upper storey of a medical shop and watching all this from a small door.

    As the firing stopped, vehicles carrying injured started rushing towards the hospital, I saw an Army officer stopping a vehicle and asking the names and profession of the people.

    As a vehicle carrying injured was stopped on the hospital gate, a man was asked by the Army officer to get down from the vehicle. He was shot dead on spot. Later he was identified as Khazr Muhammad of Cheerkote (Lolab) who had argued with the officer that he was an employee in DC office Kupwara and he was taking his injured relative to hospital.

    I still remember the Army officer firing at Khazr Muhammad from a point blank range. I also took my brother to the hospital where doctors said that he was brought dead. There I saw 18 bodies including bodies of two policemen who were in uniform. Later 9 more injured succumbed to their injuries.”



    ABDUL GANI:

    “After the gruesome massacre, the Army men asked us to assemble in a ground and undergo an identification parade.

    A boy of Awoora Kupwara died in front of his father, who begged the troops to allow him to take his son to hospital. But they didn’t pay heed to the pleas of his elderly father and left the boy to die.”



    MUHAMAMD MAQBOOL PIR (Employee of Fire and Emergency Service):

    “I was posted at Sopore and was waiting for bus in Kupwara bus stand. Army convoy was passing from by-pass, suddenly some gun shots were heard and indiscriminate firing from forces from all sides started. I ran to take shelter near a bus, but a bullet hit me. I took refuge in a house at Dar Mohalla, the house belonged to Sanaullah Malik. I was provided first aid by the inmates. Around 4 pm there was a crack down and I along with other people were taken for an identification parade. When troops saw me bleeding I was immediately arrested, blindfolded and hand cuffed and taken to Zangli Army garrison. I pleaded before them that I was an employee in fire service department and not a militant. But they didn’t listen to me and I was tortured.



    The then DC Kupwara Yaseen Shah reached Zangli and asked Army to free me, but I wasn’t.

    Next day I was again bundled in Army jeep and taken to Drugmulla interrogation centre, from there I was taken to Badamibagh Army cantonment and kept in an interrogation centre for 19 days.”



    PETITION:

    After the incident, police registered a case FIR No: 19/94 under Sections 302, 307 dated 27-01-1994 in police station Kupwara.

    “We ask the government why it failed to deliver justice to victim families who lost their kin to the Army carnage,” said Muhammad Ahsan Untoo who has filed a petition in the state human rights commission on behalf of the families of the victims.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gre...-jan-26/%3famp

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    23rd Feb, Kunan Poshpora Mass rapes

    Kunan Poshpora: A collective shame


    Kashmir needs no introduction to the people on watch for the Human Rights violations in the conflicts around the world. They must have heard, researched and reported on the killings, desaparecidos, unmarked graves, fake encounters, custodial killings, illegitimate arrests, rapes and the worst of crimes against humanity that turn people immune to the emotions or inculcate in them the ability to control their emotions when common people breakdown, the same way most doctors turn immune to emotions for the patients. But go the village called Kunan Poshpora, located in the Kupwara district of Northern part of Kashmir and you will see men with a stone heart breaking down like a child slapped in face after they hear tragedy that befell the inhabitants of this remote village. A tragedy that transcends the words “worst of crimes against humanity” and would rather need a new definition for there is no comparison of the incident.

    It was 11 pm during the intervening night of 23-24 February when a battalion of 4th Rajputana Rifles of 68 Brigade C/o 56 APO of the Indian Army did the acts so diabolical that it would shake the conscience of any barbarian, let alone the civilized citizenry of the world. Famous as it was in Kashmir those days, they cordoned off the Village, and some psychopathic or lunatic condition made them go berserk, breaking the windows and banging the doors, they barged into the houses of the villagers. What followed would go down into the history books as a blotch on the face of Indian democracy in particular and on civilizations in general. As the victims recollect it, all the male population of this small village was beaten up and made to assemble at gun point in a separate house. The women left alone in their houses were gang raped by 4 to 6 soldiers each at gun point until the morning of 24th February. In this assault 53 women were raped in a single night with youngest victim as young as 13 and the eldest, an 80 year old woman. The night’s devils did not even spare a pregnant lady who gave birth to a baby with a fractured arm, 3 days after the incident. The doctors reporting that the baby had suffered blows and the woman claiming that she was kicked while they raped her. The morning of February 24 broke the sky on the head of its male population when they were released after dour torture. Face to face as they came to the realities of the last night when they reached home, their women folk numb as dead meat, brutally beaten off their strength and chastity. Harrowing tales of brutality and sadism, of a daughter and mother raped in front of each other by the savages. Somebody’s sister, mother , wife all raped and the world of their own torn apart for generations to recount.

    After the incident the villagers went to the Police Station Trehgam and lodged an FIR against the Army under the sections 376, 452 and 342. Till now 22 years have passed and not even one offender has been booked, leave alone punished. There was no immediate investigation done after the FIR was lodged as the Assistant Superintendent Dilbaugh Singh happened to be on leave. In July, Dilbaugh Singh was transferred and the investigation never started. The villagers reportedly then went to the then District Magistrate SM Yaseen on March 5 who visited the village on March 7 for his investigation. In his report, he says that “the soldiers behaved like beasts and raped 53 women irrespective of their age, marital status, pregnancy……. there was a hue and cry in the whole village”.

    On March 18 With the world Human Rights Watch Groups getting an ear of the incident and the criticism from all corners, the Army asked the Press Council of India to investigate. The team reached this village in June, 3 months after the incident and after interviewing the victims claimed that their testimonies were contradictory and rendered their allegations as “baseless”. They even impugned the report of the doctors that claimed the fracture in the arm of the baby was due to blows to the baby and termed it down as injury caused during the delivery. Medical examinations of nearly 32 women done in the month of March revealed abrasions on their chests, bruises and wounds on their bodies, it also revealed broken hymens of 3 teenage girls. The Press Council of India turned the report down saying that “such a delayed medical examination proves nothing” and that “such medical findings are common among the villagers”. In their final report, they claimed that there had nothing happened in Kunan Poshpora on that particular night and all the allegations are nothing but a “well-concocted bundle of lies” and” a massive hoax orchestrated by militant groups and their sympathizers and their mentors in Kashmir and abroad….for re-inscribing Kashmir on International agenda as a Human Rights issue”. The case closed with the committee suggesting that there is no police inquiry required into the incident.

    However, many international Human Rights groups came to the village and investigated, filing reports that refuted the Indian Government stance. In 1992, United States Department of State, in its report on International Human Rights denounced the Government of India report and established that “there was credible evidence to support charges that an elite army unit engaged in mass rape in Kashmiri village of Kunan Poshpora”.

    The tragedy of that night did not end with the morning of the next day. The rape in all societies, no matter how modern, has societal stigma attached to it. The women of that village are looked down upon even today. Their daughters are left unmarried, even the children that were born the following year of that incident were suspected to be the results of the rape. The families are broken and the whole village population has secluded itself from the rest of the world. They have seen no light at the end of the so called tunnel, travelling through its dark for 22 years. In 2011, the State Human Rights Commission (SHRC, a Government of India body), after the recommendations by the panel commission chairman Justice (retd) Syed Bashiruddin Ahmad and Justice (retd) Javaid Kawoosa, established the need to re-investigate the case. The SHRC asked the Government to prosecute the then director (prosecution) for closing the case and ordered a compensation of Rs 2 lakh to each of the victim. More than a year has passed since the case has been re-opened but the investigation committee has yet to prosecute anyone.

    Rape not only disintegrates the psyche of the victim, it perforates the hearts and leaves the victim in an abyss of despise for the rest of their lives. An example of this is this Village when you enter it even today, the murmuring soft cries and sighs of its victims surround the air with each dawn and every dusk.

    At a time when we are discussing the Rights of women in Liberal societies and measures that could be taken to contain the crimes against women we need to focus on the victims of this tragedy. The nationalist young Indians who came protesting against the brutal rape of a 23 year old woman in New Delhi last year demanding severe punishment to the culprits should look into the mirror and ask themselves of the hypocrisy they have been exercising when the culprits of this heinous crime are their Soldiers. The deafening silence that the Indian General public maintains on the Kunan Poshpora stands antithetical to their effort for the concept of “rape-free” India. Unless justice is demanded for the victims of the past rapes and the Nationalistic sentiment is sidelined for a more honourable sentiment of Humanity, the cries for a “Rape-free-India” will sound hollow.

    https://thekashmirwalla.com/2013/02/...lective-shame/

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    Wonder if any 'fairminded' Indians will comment on above?


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

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    Just one word for them: Animals. Actually even animals deserve more respect than this filth that Indian Army is.

    battalion of 4th Rajputana Rifles of 68 Brigade C/o 56 APO of the Indian Army

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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Wonder if any 'fairminded' Indians will comment on above?
    Kashmir Walla website seems to be run by Pro-Separatist and Anti-India sympathizers. While rape is deplorable, I doubt the source. This is like believing everything that Arnab News Channel shows people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Kashmir Walla website seems to be run by Pro-Separatist and Anti-India sympathizers. While rape is deplorable, I doubt the source. This is like believing everything that Arnab News Channel shows people.
    To be fair, there is enough Literature and Testimonials to paint an accurate picture of how Brutal and immoral the Indian Army is.

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    Indian army and thier karname in northeast where they were deployed ended up causing a rape epidemic of sort

    So in protest these poor old woman stood naked to bring attention towards rape situation in northeast

    But in Kashmir they're supposed to be saints, requiring evidence nothing less than Midget Modi ki watching the rape himself...

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Kashmir Walla website seems to be run by Pro-Separatist and Anti-India sympathizers. While rape is deplorable, I doubt the source. This is like believing everything that Arnab News Channel shows people.
    You are a hindutva extremist troll. I have seen enough of your posting history to call you this now.

    Here, feast your eyes before you deny these as well.

    https://thediplomat.com/2018/02/all-...ra-mass-rapes/

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.thewi...l-violence/amp

    https://www.trtworld.com/video/socia...3f5c001153cf8f

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hin...QzgyJ_amp.html

    The Kashmirwalla is operated from within Kashmir. Kashmir where we cannot even tweet or post our opinions on social media freely without drawing the wrath of your Fascist government. You think local journalists can do a fake story about your army, which is the most sacred part of the hindutva fascism? They would be absolutely massacred or wouldnt see the light of day. We live in a militarized state. At least use common sense before posting absolute nonsense. But i understand, its not that you are completely dumb, the reason is that you also have an agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by observer1 View Post
    To be fair, there is enough Literature and Testimonials to paint an accurate picture of how Brutal and immoral the Indian Army is.
    A couple of days ago i read an article about how the Indian forces which were on a UN peace keeping mission in some African nation had fathered countless children in some villages there. No wonder India is the rape capital of the world. Absolute savages who need to be civilized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    A couple of days ago i read an article about how the Indian forces which were on a UN peace keeping mission in some African nation had fathered countless children in some villages there. No wonder India is the rape capital of the world. Absolute savages who need to be civilized.
    Post the link.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Post the link.
    A Quick Google brings up a few hits.
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/nort...447-2012-11-25

    This was in Congo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by observer1 View Post
    A Quick Google brings up a few hits.
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/nort...447-2012-11-25

    This was in Congo.
    That is shameful. It is not rape though. It was prostitution. Some Indian army men were paying gifts and money to poor women and had sex with them and fathered kids.

    "One of the victims had claimed that the Indian Army personnel used to meet her in a hotel in Goma. The army man would give her gifts and also pay money. Most of the victims are said to be from extremely poor families."

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Kashmirwalla is operated by a Jihadist. I can chuck my toys too and claim it. Means nothing.

    Not even your fellow Islamic countries does not buy any of this and they enjoy cordial relations with India. Only Pakistan seems to believe all these news peddled out by Kashmirwalla ;)
    A saffron extremist ostrich would obviously be blind to the the entire world reporting it (and the few links which i posted) because the head is buried in the sand.

    We dont expect anything from any of those countries even if we know the fact that they could purchase India in its entirety along with all Indians. Not sure why you'd bring them up. But then again, to bring up irrelevant nonsense is the common modus operandi of hindutva trolls everywhere, even on social media. So, you are not off the script.

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    Quote Originally Posted by observer1 View Post
    A Quick Google brings up a few hits.
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/nort...447-2012-11-25

    This was in Congo.
    Thank you. What a shameless force! Animalistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    A saffron extremist ostrich would obviously be blind to the the entire world reporting it (and the few links which i posted) because the head is buried in the sand.

    We dont expect anything from any of those countries even if we know the fact that they could purchase India in its entirety along with all Indians. Not sure why you'd bring them up. But then again, to bring up irrelevant nonsense is the common modus operandi of hindutva trolls everywhere, even on social media. So, you are not off the script.
    Says the online Jihadi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    That is shameful. It is not rape though. It was prostitution. Some Indian army men were paying gifts and money to poor women and had sex with them and fathered kids.

    "One of the victims had claimed that the Indian Army personnel used to meet her in a hotel in Goma. The army man would give her gifts and also pay money. Most of the victims are said to be from extremely poor families."
    Shameful from Indian forces, isnt it? They are a danger to women everywhere and look to exploit them any way they can. Forget about being disciplined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Thank you. What a shameless force! Animalistic.
    It was prostitution without protection. Hence the kids. It is shameful, but has nothing to do with your claims on Kashmir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Shameful from Indian forces, isnt it? They are a danger to women everywhere and look to exploit them any way they can. Forget about being disciplined.
    One instance means you generalize it for all of Indian armed forces? What a shameful post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Says the online Jihadi.
    This online jihadi has demolished you here. If denial was a city, you'd be living in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    One instance means you generalize it for all of Indian armed forces? What a shameful post.
    One instance? Ostrich syndrome

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    This online jihadi has demolished you here. If denial was a city, you'd be living in it.
    Posting a prostitution related stuff in Congo and claiming things about rape in Kashmir

    You sure did demolish me with awesome logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    One instance? Ostrich syndrome
    Where else did Indian army commit this? Jihadi mindset

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Posting a prostitution related stuff in Congo and claiming things about rape in Kashmir

    You sure did demolish me with awesome logic.
    Man, can you hear yourself? Even the two lines which you wrote sound so bad for your army.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Where else did Indian army commit this? Jihadi mindset
    Everywhere they go. Whether it is Kashmir, whether it is the North-east. Not even left the Africans alone. My goodness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Everywhere they go. Whether it is Kashmir, whether it is the North-east. Not even left the Africans alone. My goodness.
    What North East? You cannot claim Kashmir which not even Muslim countries believe.

    There will always be some bad apples in every army. The perpetrators must be punished. Your claims on Congo is invalid. That is prostitution. No rape involved. Just own it up and let it go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Where else did Indian army commit this? Jihadi mindset
    'Indian Army, Rape Us' | outlook India
    The fascinating and moving story behind the unique protest in 2004

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.out...rape-us/296634

    Kashmir 'mass rape' survivors fight for justice | BBC report

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...-asia-41268906

    In India's remote northeast, civilians challenge rape, killing by security forces | washington post

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...06b_story.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Man, can you hear yourself? Even the two lines which you wrote sound so bad for your army.
    Your claim is on rape of Kashmiri women. Your claim on Congo prostitution racket does not apply in Kashmir.

    I am saying it again, your narrative is not even bought by any Islamic country barring Pakistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    'Indian Army, Rape Us' | outlook India
    The fascinating and moving story behind the unique protest in 2004

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.out...rape-us/296634

    Kashmir 'mass rape' survivors fight for justice | BBC report

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...-asia-41268906

    In India's remote northeast, civilians challenge rape, killing by security forces | washington post

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...06b_story.html
    A few incidents of rape does not mean the entire army is like that. There will always be bad apples. I have mentioned it before. The culprits should be punished.

    I can post the same about your beloved Pak Fauj too. But it will be pointless. There will always be some bad army men, cops, priests, Moulvis etc everywhere. That does not mean everyone is bad. Your gorss generalization is deplorable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Your claim is on rape of Kashmiri women. Your claim on Congo prostitution racket does not apply in Kashmir.

    I am saying it again, your narrative is not even bought by any Islamic country barring Pakistan.
    Which Islamic country has not bought our claim? Kindly mention with proof. The news is widely reported across Arab and muslim world.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.alj...poshpora-rapes

    https://www.trtworld.com/video/socia...3f5c001153cf8f

    What is this irrelevant itch to bring in other countries? What is the logic behind it apart from derailing the discussion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    A few incidents of rape does not mean the entire army is like that. There will always be bad apples. I have mentioned it before. The culprits should be punished.

    I can post the same about your beloved Pak Fauj too. But it will be pointless. There will always be some bad army men, cops, priests, Moulvis etc everywhere. That does not mean everyone is bad. Your gorss generalization is deplorable.
    Make another thread and post anything you like about anyone. Read the title of this thread before spewing irrelevant nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Which Islamic country has not bought our claim? Kindly mention with proof. The news is widely reported across Arab and muslim world.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.alj...poshpora-rapes

    https://www.trtworld.com/video/socia...3f5c001153cf8f

    What is this irrelevant itch to bring in other countries? What is the logic behind it apart from derailing the discussion?
    It is reported like any other story. But does any government believe it? They would cut all the ties with India if they believed it.

    You see, You and I can throw allegations on each other. It will only increase our post count. What matters is, does any outside party believes in this? You know the rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Make another thread and post anything you like about anyone. Read the title of this thread before spewing irrelevant nonsense.
    You have Pakistani flag on your profile. Hence I brought in Pak Fauj into it. There is no derailing on my part. Everything I posted in relevant. There will always be bad elements in every army. Does not make the entire army bad. Same goes for Indian army and Pakistan Army.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    That is shameful. It is not rape though. It was prostitution. Some Indian army men were paying gifts and money to poor women and had sex with them and fathered kids.

    "One of the victims had claimed that the Indian Army personnel used to meet her in a hotel in Goma. The army man would give her gifts and also pay money. Most of the victims are said to be from extremely poor families."
    It's called exploitation

    Does India know what that means ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    You have Pakistani flag on your profile. Hence I brought in Pak Fauj into it. There is no derailing on my part. Everything I posted in relevant. There will always be bad elements in every army. Does not make the entire army bad. Same goes for Indian army and Pakistan Army.
    And you're not going to condemn and try to fix those bad apples (litterally where ever they're deployed on mass numbers rape allegations follow so "bad apple" is just a slap on the wrist type argument) instead focus will be on whataboutism to win a argument on a forum...

    Dude if you want to discuss Pak army there are other threads for it(where people point out thier problems and not cover it under "bad apple" argument) you can't get out of arguments with whataboutism...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    And you're not going to condemn and try to fix those bad apples (litterally where ever they're deployed on mass numbers rape allegations follow so "bad apple" is just a slap on the wrist type argument) instead focus will be on whataboutism to win a argument on a forum...

    Dude if you want to discuss Pak army there are other threads for it(where people point out thier problems and not cover it under "bad apple" argument) you can't get out of arguments with whataboutism...
    I really do not care if I win an argument on an internet forum. All the bad apples should be prosecuted and punished. But you cannot call the entire army as rapists just because a minority of them are rogues.

    I do agree that there are some criminals in uniform in Indian army. They are not angels. But calling all of them as rapists is too much.


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