‘The best player I’ve seen in my life’: Australia coach Justin Langer regarding Virat Kohli


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  1. #1
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    ‘The best player I’ve seen in my life’: Australia coach Justin Langer regarding Virat Kohli

    India’s much-awaited tour of Australia is just around the corner. India’s full-fledged tour of Australia will start November 27 with the ODIs, followed by three T20I matches on December 4, 6 and 8. The four-Test Border-Gavaskar Trophy will begin in Adelaide with India and Australia set to play their maiden Day/Night Test against each other.

    India beat Australia 2-1 in Tests the last time they toured Down Under, but this time around, the challenge will be different altogether, primarily for two reasons – the availability of Steve Smith and David Warner, who weren’t playing in 2018/19 and the absence of Virat Kohli. The India captain will be returning home after playing the first of the four Tests ahead of the birth of his and wife Anushka Sharma’s child.

    Also Read | ‘He is the best player in the world:’ Nathan Lyon says Australia won’t let guard down in Virat Kohli’s absence

    The absence of Kohli promises to tilt the balance in Australia’s favour, reckons head coach Justin Langer. Kohli was India’s leading run-getter during the 2014/15 series with 692 runs and the second leading run-scorer in 2018-19 series with 292 runs. Calling Kohli ‘the best he’s ever seen,’ Langer pointed out it’s tough not to be happy knowing that Kohli will miss three Tests.

    “I’ve said this before, he is probably the best player I’ve ever seen in my life for so many reasons,” Langer told reporters in a video call.

    “It’s not only his batting but his energy, his passion for the game, the way he fields. I cannot believe the energy he displays in everything he does. Are we happy he’s not playing? It’s like taking Dustin Martin out of Richmond, isn’t it?” added Langer, referring to the champion Australian Rules footballer.

    With Kohli out, vice-captain Ajinkya Rahane is likely to take charge of the team. The addition of Rohit Sharma to India’s Test side promises to bolster the side but Kohli is a different kettle of fish and not having him around for the most part of the Test series is surely going to affect India, feels Langer.

    “Of course it’ll have an impact but we also know that India, they beat us last time, they’re a very, very good team,” he said. “We cannot get complacent for a second with or without Virat. So we’re going to have to be on our toes all summer and we’re looking forward to that.”

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/crick...pXgS0MdYO.html


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  2. #2
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    Langer has a habit of speaking in hyperboles. I am sure if Pakistan were touring he would have said Babar and if England stokes.. Not much to read into it i guess.

  3. #3
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    As usual hyperboles. Kohli is an excellent cricketer but even with him, we failed to beat SA, England and NZ in the test series with overall result being 2-8.

    I could have understood this hyperbole if we had batsmen of equivalence of Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag and Laxman alongside the bowlers that we have in form of Bumrah, Shami, Ishant and Ash/Jaddu.

  4. #4
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    Virat is the greatest cricketer India has ever produced without a Shadow of doubt

  5. #5
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    Agreed 100%. He is the best batsman of all time. Indian fans will understand this when he is not going to be around.

  6. #6
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    Kohli is the greatest white ball batsman ever, and he is also a brilliant Test batsman.

    If you consider batsmen across all formats, no player has ever excelled in all three formats like he has.

    In addition, he is also the greatest Asian Test captain ever.

    Langer may not be off the mark here.

  7. #7
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    Not much to read into here Langer doesnt do half measures and this is another example of him going OTT

    Kohli is v good but not the best player of the last 30 years

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Kohli is the greatest white ball batsman ever, and he is also a brilliant Test batsman.

    If you consider batsmen across all formats, no player has ever excelled in all three formats like he has.

    In addition, he is also the greatest Asian Test captain ever.

    Langer may not be off the mark here.
    i thought Imran was the greatest Asian captain.
    and no Kohli is not the greatest white ball batsmen.
    It is one and only Sachin Tendulkar.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoshiarpurexpress View Post
    i thought Imran was the greatest Asian captain.
    and no Kohli is not the greatest white ball batsmen.
    It is one and only Sachin Tendulkar.
    Kohli surpassed Imran as Test captain ages go.

    Cannot compare a captain with 14 Test wins to someone with 33 and counting, regardless of any cross-era adjustments that people try to make.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Kohli is the greatest white ball batsman ever, and he is also a brilliant Test batsman.

    If you consider batsmen across all formats, no player has ever excelled in all three formats like he has.

    In addition, he is also the greatest Asian Test captain ever.

    Langer may not be off the mark here.
    I understand Mamoon, you are trying to get under the skin of many here ... I won’t have got into it but, your first line touched one of my weaknesses as well .... Virat Kohli will need to do lot, lot more than scoring three single digit scores in three ICC SF/Final to even reach near the level of a guy named IVA Richards. If you go by stats, he is not even close to his contemporary Abraham de Villiers.

    He is not even the greatest Indian Captain ever, in fact on proper merit he is probably not the most deserving Indian captain right now - yes, he has won lots of Tests, which is attributed towards his team, rather than his Captaincy.

    Considering batsmen of all formats, it’s a bit narrowed down list because T20 started after 2005, even then how does he come ahead of AdV, I am not sure.

    I am a big fan of Kohli myself, but here both Langer & you are playing for the gallery - it’s Langer’s personal opinion, just like me thinks Imran is the greatest cricketer I have ever seen - live or archived, but that’s my personal comment. What you are trying here is to justify him, which is a bit ..... you know. And, Langer is damn stupid to say something like that considering his position as the Australian coach, someone playing 100+ Tests for one of the greatest teams ever as well. Considering his age, he must have seen cricket from late 70s/early 80s and remember, he is saying player, not batsman - but, still it’s his comment, I can take that as even then he kept a little cover for himself with that word “probably”.

    But, you know...

  11. #11
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    Hard to take Langer seriously, he's always been a bit addled. He's used similar terms to describe Tendulkar, Richards, and Lara previously.

    I am glad I don't work with someone like him, I'd have found it hard to concentrate the moment he started talking in platitudes.

  12. #12
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    Ab De Villiers is the most skilful batsman I have seen. Kohli is probably the most successful I've seen though.

  13. #13
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    Kohli is a mediocre LOI captain but very good in tests. He has a W/L ratio of 2.75 in tests which is only lesser than Steve Waugh, Clive Lloyd and Ricky Ponting.

    I understand in this era, it is easy to win games but at same time it's easy to lose games as well. So, mathematically, W/L is a fair reflective of the success as test captain. So, whether he is the greatest Asian captain or not is a good debate to have, he certainly is the most successful Asian captain of all-time.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    I understand Mamoon, you are trying to get under the skin of many here ... I won’t have got into it but, your first line touched one of my weaknesses as well .... Virat Kohli will need to do lot, lot more than scoring three single digit scores in three ICC SF/Final to even reach near the level of a guy named IVA Richards. If you go by stats, he is not even close to his contemporary Abraham de Villiers.

    He is not even the greatest Indian Captain ever, in fact on proper merit he is probably not the most deserving Indian captain right now - yes, he has won lots of Tests, which is attributed towards his team, rather than his Captaincy.

    Considering batsmen of all formats, it’s a bit narrowed down list because T20 started after 2005, even then how does he come ahead of AdV, I am not sure.

    I am a big fan of Kohli myself, but here both Langer & you are playing for the gallery - it’s Langer’s personal opinion, just like me thinks Imran is the greatest cricketer I have ever seen - live or archived, but that’s my personal comment. What you are trying here is to justify him, which is a bit ..... you know. And, Langer is damn stupid to say something like that considering his position as the Australian coach, someone playing 100+ Tests for one of the greatest teams ever as well. Considering his age, he must have seen cricket from late 70s/early 80s and remember, he is saying player, not batsman - but, still it’s his comment, I can take that as even then he kept a little cover for himself with that word “probably”.

    But, you know...
    Steve Smith is the best of all time in tests.
    Although that innings vs India in 2017 where he scored a 100 in the most difficult turning condtions is vastly overrated. He was dropped I believe 5 times in that match.

    Kohli is number 2 of this era.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Kohli is a mediocre LOI captain but very good in tests. He has a W/L ratio of 2.75 in tests which is only lesser than Steve Waugh, Clive Lloyd and Ricky Ponting.

    I understand in this era, it is easy to win games but at same time it's easy to lose games as well. So, mathematically, W/L is a fair reflective of the success as test captain. So, whether he is the greatest Asian captain or not is a good debate to have, he certainly is the most successful Asian captain of all-time.
    W/L ratio is not a proper matrix in this regard. Don’t get me wrong and I am not down playing the achievements, but when most games end in direct W/L result, obviously the better team will have higher ratio, because they’ll dominate more games.

    One great thing ICC has done over the years is that they have ensured maximum overs in Test cricket - over rate fines/bans, make-up time, using technology like field drier, artificial lighting as well as better drainage system and flexible/extended playing time has ensured that most games have 450 overs available- that has made it really, really tough for weaker teams to bail out a draw through back door.

    If you go through the score cards, you’ll be astonished with the number of draws that WIN & PAK under Imran had to go through with games ending with 300, May be 350 overs and opponents hanging out for a draw. I put it this way - had same playing conditions applied 45 years back, the best that most team could expect against Lloyd’s WIN was 4-1 .... that’s one surprise win here & there out of all 5 Tests ending in direct result - that’s for 12 years period!!!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Steve Smith is the best of all time in tests.
    Although that innings vs India in 2017 where he scored a 100 in the most difficult turning condtions is vastly overrated. He was dropped I believe 5 times in that match.

    Kohli is number 2 of this era.
    Kohli definitely is among top 2 all-round batsmen of his time - probably third in Test, second in LO combined and overall probably tied second with Smith after AdV.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Kohli definitely is among top 2 all-round batsmen of his time - probably third in Test, second in LO combined and overall probably tied second with Smith after AdV.
    Kohli is not below ABD in tests. He is below ABD in odi imo because of KO failures.

    He is actually better than AbD IN T20 Internationals which may surprise a lot of people. Check his KO record in T20.

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    Even better than Umar Akmal?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Kohli definitely is among top 2 all-round batsmen of his time - probably third in Test, second in LO combined and overall probably tied second with Smith after AdV.
    Abdv has mediocre stats in t20is, yes he has a more complete game than kohli in t20s but still abd just hasn't scored much in t20is while kohli is GOAT t20i batsman with a stellar record in t20 world cup knockouts.

    Secondly how are kohlis stats clearly inferior to abdevilliers in odis.? As for chokes in world events both of them have a fair share of such innings.

    As for tests i don't think its even close, kohli carries the team on his shoulders while abd always came in after amla, smith and kallis already did the hard work.

    I agree that Viv is the GOAT.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Kohli definitely is among top 2 all-round batsmen of his time - probably third in Test, second in LO combined and overall probably tied second with Smith after AdV.
    If u rate tests higher than lois you can't put abd ahead of smith.
    Have u seen a better test batsman than Smith?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    As usual hyperboles. Kohli is an excellent cricketer but even with him, we failed to beat SA, England and NZ in the test series with overall result being 2-8.

    I could have understood this hyperbole if we had batsmen of equivalence of Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag and Laxman alongside the bowlers that we have in form of Bumrah, Shami, Ishant and Ash/Jaddu.
    Yes
    Was a one man show for India in their tours to South Africa and England.
    Had other batsmen showed up, India would have won 2-1 in South Africa and the end score in England would have looked quite different.

    India lost two tests in England falling short by 30 and 60 runs while chasing small scores. Complete chokes from batsmen.

    Remember Kohli lost all 5 tosses


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

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    Steve Smith is beast in Test format and better player than Kohli.


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

  23. #23
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    I have always rated Virat Kohli as the GOAT limited-overs batsman (ODI + T20). Absolute class player across both formats.

    The perfect batsman.

    If your only flaw is a handful of matches in ICC ODI knockouts (the man literally performs in any other type of knockout), you're a generational talent.

    He's brilliant in Test cricket as well, but there are quite a few players that have been better than him including Steve Smith right now.


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  24. #24
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    He’s clearly saying this in order to secure an IPL gig once he finishes his coaching stint with Australia

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Yes
    Was a one man show for India in their tours to South Africa and England.
    Had other batsmen showed up, India would have won 2-1 in South Africa and the end score in England would have looked quite different.

    India lost two tests in England falling short by 30 and 60 runs while chasing small scores. Complete chokes from batsmen.

    Remember Kohli lost all 5 tosses
    Our first test in Australia is a pink ball test and Australia's record is brilliant in that. I think toss will continue to play an important role but I expect a 250-300 type scores in that test match so one special knock from anyone can turn the consequence of the game.

    If someone( maybe Kohli) can deliver that kind of knock in that test match and if we win that game, we stand a chance in that series but if Australia wins the toss and post 400 runs on board, we are pretty much done for the series because first test will play a key role in the overall consequence of the series.
    Last edited by Ab Fan; 13th November 2020 at 20:22.

  26. #26
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    Hope this wont be India's excuse if they lose the series?


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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    I understand Mamoon, you are trying to get under the skin of many here ... I won’t have got into it but, your first line touched one of my weaknesses as well .... Virat Kohli will need to do lot, lot more than scoring three single digit scores in three ICC SF/Final to even reach near the level of a guy named IVA Richards. If you go by stats, he is not even close to his contemporary Abraham de Villiers.

    He is not even the greatest Indian Captain ever, in fact on proper merit he is probably not the most deserving Indian captain right now - yes, he has won lots of Tests, which is attributed towards his team, rather than his Captaincy.

    Considering batsmen of all formats, it’s a bit narrowed down list because T20 started after 2005, even then how does he come ahead of AdV, I am not sure.

    I am a big fan of Kohli myself, but here both Langer & you are playing for the gallery - it’s Langer’s personal opinion, just like me thinks Imran is the greatest cricketer I have ever seen - live or archived, but that’s my personal comment. What you are trying here is to justify him, which is a bit ..... you know. And, Langer is damn stupid to say something like that considering his position as the Australian coach, someone playing 100+ Tests for one of the greatest teams ever as well. Considering his age, he must have seen cricket from late 70s/early 80s and remember, he is saying player, not batsman - but, still it’s his comment, I can take that as even then he kept a little cover for himself with that word “probably”.

    But, you know...
    As an all-format batsmen, Kohli is ahead of both de Villiers and Smith and arguably the best batsmen of this generation.

    As a test batsmen, Smith is well ahead of the rest and is heading on his way to GOAT status in tests IMO( behind Bradman obv).

    AB is arguably the most versatile batsmen of all-time and if he played for a few more years for South Africa, he would have been among the top 10 batsmen of all-time.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Hope this wont be India's excuse if they lose the series?
    Now that we have an excuse, why not?

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    After Tendulkar and Lara, Kohli is very likely the 3rd greatest batsman of last 30 years of international cricket. Arguably even ahead of Lara if his all formats record is to be considered.

    Tendulkar
    Lara
    Kohli
    Ponting
    Hayden

    That's my Top 5 for the last 30 years with Sehwag and ABD missing our narrowly.

    Tendulkar pretty much the greatest since Bradman.

  30. #30
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    Kohli is easily 1 of the greatest players to play the game. You don't need to think he is the best of all time. But you would be deluded to not think he is in the top 10 or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    After Tendulkar and Lara, Kohli is very likely the 3rd greatest batsman of last 30 years of international cricket. Arguably even ahead of Lara if his all formats record is to be considered.

    Tendulkar
    Lara
    Kohli
    Ponting
    Hayden

    That's my Top 5 for the last 30 years with Sehwag and ABD missing our narrowly.

    Tendulkar pretty much the greatest since Bradman.
    Ponting is much better than Kohli, may I know why you rated him below Kohli?


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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    As an all-format batsmen, Kohli is ahead of both de Villiers and Smith and arguably the best batsmen of this generation.

    As a test batsmen, Smith is well ahead of the rest and is heading on his way to GOAT status in tests IMO( behind Bradman obv).

    AB is arguably the most versatile batsmen of all-time and if he played for a few more years for South Africa, he would have been among the top 10 batsmen of all-time.
    I havenÂ’t responded to anyone on this topic because you see, regardless of nationality how divided the opinions are here in a small community of PP regarding batsmen in just about last 20-30 years.... and we are no body bloggers in a cricket forum.

    In that regard, now do you realise how stupid Langer was for such hyperbole .....?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Ponting is much better than Kohli, may I know why you rated him below Kohli?
    Ponting as a captain, Batsman and personality was better than Kohli.

    Kohli is a nice guy but he is very easily triggered. Ponting was another animal all-together. He gave no ****s when he was in his zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Ponting is much better than Kohli
    Ponting is up there too and i only separate them by one place. For me, Kohli has already surpassed Ponting. His competition is Lara right now and then probably even Tendulkar if he can take his game well into the mid-late 2020s performing at this level.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    I havenÂ’t responded to anyone on this topic because you see, regardless of nationality how divided the opinions are here in a small community of PP regarding batsmen in just about last 20-30 years.... and we are no body bloggers in a cricket forum.

    In that regard, now do you realise how stupid Langer was for such hyperbole .....?
    Langer is just playing mind games with his hyperboles, deep down he knows it's a walk in park for Australia this time.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Ponting is much better than Kohli, may I know why you rated him below Kohli?
    Ponting had a 7 years peak where he averaged 68 in tests with bat.

    Kohli since 2016 has been averaging 61 in test with bat.

  37. #37
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    This must be a joke. Aussies have started the mind games

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Ponting as a captain, Batsman and personality was better than Kohli.

    Kohli is a nice guy but he is very easily triggered. Ponting was another animal all-together. He gave no ****s when he was in his zone.
    Kohli is superior to Ponting in tests and T20.

    He is also better than punter in odi but punter was more clutch in KO stages of odi. So I would put punter ahead in odi.
    Last edited by The Viper; 14th November 2020 at 05:16.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Langer is just playing mind games with his hyperboles, deep down he knows it's a walk in park for Australia this time.
    Yep pretty much Langer trying to butter and soften Kohli up

    They all know Kohli would bring out the beast If they try to bully him.

    You never want to provoke Virat. Ever. You will regret it.
    Last edited by tyron_woodley; 14th November 2020 at 02:00.

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    Michael Vaughn said the same thing in the past, that Kohli is the best batsman he has ever seen.

  41. #41
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    McGrath played during his lifetime.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Ponting is up there too and i only separate them by one place. For me, Kohli has already surpassed Ponting. His competition is Lara right now and then probably even Tendulkar if he can take his game well into the mid-late 2020s performing at this level.
    Technically he can.

    Right now, it ain't even close.

    Yes he averages 60 in ODIs but what's the point when he flops in games that matter. This dude is choking like no tomorrow while Tendulkar had to take responsibility as early as 1996.

    In tests, Tendu is easily superior (yes Kohli had a great overseas cycle but it's one cycle...and he stat boosts a lot at home).

    T20I - Kohli is the GOAT based on performance.

    I just don't see Kohli anywhere near Tendulkar even in terms of career trajectory.

    In 2013, he looked like he would beat Tendu in terms of impact.

    Right now, I am not sure.


    Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    Hard to take Langer seriously, he's always been a bit addled. He's used similar terms to describe Tendulkar, Richards, and Lara previously.

    I am glad I don't work with someone like him, I'd have found it hard to concentrate the moment he started talking in platitudes.


    I wouldn't mind this if Kohli actually deserved it or was close to it.

    He's an incredible batsman but the platitudes are a bit too much.

    Either Langer is playing mind games or he has fallen victim to hype & marketing lol.


    Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

  44. #44
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    What if Nasir Hussain says Kohli is not a great batsman? I am sure many posters would not have much objection. What does Langer know about cricket?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Technically he can.

    Right now, it ain't even close.

    Yes he averages 60 in ODIs but what's the point when he flops in games that matter. This dude is choking like no tomorrow while Tendulkar had to take responsibility as early as 1996.

    In tests, Tendu is easily superior (yes Kohli had a great overseas cycle but it's one cycle...and he stat boosts a lot at home).

    T20I - Kohli is the GOAT based on performance.

    I just don't see Kohli anywhere near Tendulkar even in terms of career trajectory.

    In 2013, he looked like he would beat Tendu in terms of impact.

    Right now, I am not sure.
    This. You said pretty much everything I wanted to say on this subject.

    Also, Langer's opinions (hyperboles) should not be taken seriously.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Kohli is superior to Ponting in tests and T20.

    He is also better than punter in odi but punter was more clutch in KO stages of odi. So I would put punter ahead in odi.
    Kohli is not even close to Punter in tests let alone superior.

    Punter had an insane peak. Kohli neither has an insane peak nor did he do anything special in his first 4-5 years.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Kohli is not even close to Punter in tests let alone superior.

    Punter had an insane peak. Kohli neither has an insane peak nor did he do anything special in his first 4-5 years.
    Kohli is better than Ponting, and in the same league as Sachin and Lara in Tests.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    Kohli is better than Ponting, and in the same league as Sachin and Lara in Tests.
    I understand there is a need to hype Kohli as he is our very own but

    At age of 32,

    Ponting had 9300 runs @Avg 59
    Kohli has 7200 runs @Avg 53
    Amla had 7200 runs@ Avg 51

    It's easy to come up and make claims without bringing facts, isn't it? Kohli is basically at Amla level in tests at this age. But I think he will finish better and end up at Sehwag/Hayden level in tests.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Technically he can.

    Right now, it ain't even close.

    Yes he averages 60 in ODIs but what's the point when he flops in games that matter. This dude is choking like no tomorrow while Tendulkar had to take responsibility as early as 1996.

    In tests, Tendu is easily superior (yes Kohli had a great overseas cycle but it's one cycle...and he stat boosts a lot at home).

    T20I - Kohli is the GOAT based on performance.

    I just don't see Kohli anywhere near Tendulkar even in terms of career trajectory.

    In 2013, he looked like he would beat Tendu in terms of impact.

    Right now, I am not sure.
    Averaging 60 matters a lot, that's how you determine how good a player is. Otherwise Zaheer khan has better stats than Wasim akram in world cups.
    The only difference between kohli and sachin is one knockout innings, if kohli does that he will surpass tendulkar quite easily.
    Secondly you are talking about kohli having only one good overseas cycle completely ignoring the fact that he was prolific in Australia, Southafrica and ok in New Zealand before that. Also he has played for 10 years compared to sachins 24,sachin had many chances.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    I understand there is a need to hype Kohli as he is our very own but

    At age of 32,

    Ponting had 9300 runs @Avg 59
    Kohli has 7200 runs @Avg 53
    Amla had 7200 runs@ Avg 51

    It's easy to come up and make claims without bringing facts, isn't it? Kohli is basically at Amla level in tests at this age. But I think he will finish better and end up at Sehwag/Hayden level in tests.
    Really?
    Kohli is an all conditions batsman Sehwag and Hayden weren't.
    All that matters is how you complete your career, ponting averages 51. I am damn sure kohli will do better, also kohli has a better overseas record than ponting who failed against india.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Really?
    Kohli is an all conditions batsman Sehwag and Hayden weren't.
    All that matters is how you complete your career, ponting averages 51. I am damn sure kohli will do better, also kohli has a better overseas record than ponting who failed against india.
    Lol, so by that statement, now Kallis and Sangakkara are better test batters than Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting. Let's see how many more criterias are we going to change for Kohli.

  52. #52
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    Kohli test stats at age of 32 is nowhere close to what Tendulkar, Ponting, Kallis, Sangakkara and Dravid stats were at same age. That proves that he is not at the same level as them as far as test cricket is concerned. Rest are all hyperboles and the need to hype stuffs that are far from reality.
    Last edited by Ab Fan; 14th November 2020 at 10:32.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Kohli is not even close to Punter in tests let alone superior.

    Punter had an insane peak. Kohli neither has an insane peak nor did he do anything special in his first 4-5 years.
    Ponting sucked in India.

    Kohli din't have any glaring weakness.

    Kohli is better than punter in tests comfortably. What Kohli did in South Africa in 2018 is unprecedented. That was the toughest batting condtions ever and Kohli even outperformed the mighty AB.

  54. #54
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    All this talk of Kohli choking in ODI knockouts needs some perspective as well.

    Gilchrist played about 7/8 semifinals in his career and he flopped badly every single time. However, his team was so strong that they carried him to the final almost every single time and allowed him to make amends in the final.

    Ponting scored 2 (8) in the 2003 World Cup semifinal, but his team carried himself into the final and presented him with the opportunity to score that devastating hundred in the final.

    @MMHS mentioned Sir Viv, and no one can dispute his status and legacy especially in the ODI format.

    His place in history was established with the 138* in the 1979 final, but would Sir Viv have made the final in the first place if it wasn’t for the 130+ that Greenidge and Haynes put up for the first wicket against Imran Khan and Sarfraz Nawaz, effectively batting Pakistan out of the game even before Sir Viv arrived for his half-baked cameo?

    Sir Viv was the weakest West Indies batsman on that day, but that did not stop his team from winning the game and allowing him the opportunity to play one of finest ODI knocks ever in the final.

    Kohli’s influence on his team results is so huge that if he fails in a big game the whole team collapses.

    If his team was as strong as Clive’s West Indies and Ponting’s Australia, he would also get multiple second chances to make amends and alter the false perception that he is a big game bottler.

    Who knows what would and could have happened if his team would have carried him into the 2015 and 2019 World Cup finals the way Clive’s West Indies and Ponting’s Australia carried Sir Viv, Ponting and Gilchrist into the 1979 and 2003 World Cup finals respectively.

    Does Kohli need to take responsibility for what happened at the Oval against the 8th ranked side in 2017 and what happened in the last two World Cup semis?

    Sure he does, but the point is that the makeup of the team allows certain great players multiple attempts to make amends while others are only allowed one crack in one tournament.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    All this talk of Kohli choking in ODI knockouts needs some perspective as well.

    Gilchrist played about 7/8 semifinals in his career and he flopped badly every single time. However, his team was so strong that they carried him to the final almost every single time and allowed him to make amends in the final.

    Ponting scored 2 (8) in the 2003 World Cup semifinal, but his team carried himself into the final and presented him with the opportunity to score that devastating hundred in the final.

    @MMHS mentioned Sir Viv, and no one can dispute his status and legacy especially in the ODI format.

    His place in history was established with the 138* in the 1979 final, but would Sir Viv have made the final in the first place if it wasn’t for the 130+ that Greenidge and Haynes put up for the first wicket against Imran Khan and Sarfraz Nawaz, effectively batting Pakistan out of the game even before Sir Viv arrived for his half-baked cameo?

    Sir Viv was the weakest West Indies batsman on that day, but that did not stop his team from winning the game and allowing him the opportunity to play one of finest ODI knocks ever in the final.

    Kohli’s influence on his team results is so huge that if he fails in a big game the whole team collapses.

    If his team was as strong as Clive’s West Indies and Ponting’s Australia, he would also get multiple second chances to make amends and alter the false perception that he is a big game bottler.

    Who knows what would and could have happened if his team would have carried him into the 2015 and 2019 World Cup finals the way Clive’s West Indies and Ponting’s Australia carried Sir Viv, Ponting and Gilchrist into the 1979 and 2003 World Cup finals respectively.

    Does Kohli need to take responsibility for what happened at the Oval against the 8th ranked side in 2017 and what happened in the last two World Cup semis?

    Sure he does, but the point is that the makeup of the team allows certain great players multiple attempts to make amends while others are only allowed one crack in one tournament.
    Check the scorecard bro - that 138* was a miracle, still probably the best ever WC knock. It was against Poms and Botham, Willis, Old & Hendricks got WIN at 99/4 after 30+ overs with Viv at 47*, then came Collis Kings and he reached 50, keeping Viv at 49. Kings got out for 80, still WIN not safe and they lost couple more .... then it was Richards' show. The last ball from Botham went to backward squire leg crowd - a full toss flicked for six.

    That 1979 SF was only close because probably the best ever WC partnership - different era so number won't justify this, but if you ever have the scope, watch out for that Mazid-Zaheer partnership.

    What could have been actually can be stressed lot, BUT may not be in 2015 or 2017 as the target was daunting, but Kohli can't hide from 2019 SF - a simple 50 was enough that day. Bottom line is, Sir Viv did it, Kohli failed.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Lol, so by that statement, now Kallis and Sangakkara are better test batters than Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting. Let's see how many more criterias are we going to change for Kohli.
    No, now you are being deliberately obtuse.
    What do you think ponting has that kohli lacks in test. As simple as that.
    Ponting made hay in the worst decade for fast bowling (flat pattas galore) and didn't even had to bat against his own bowlers who were the only great fast bowlers at that time.
    Kohli easily over ponting any day of the week.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Kohli test stats at age of 32 is nowhere close to what Tendulkar, Ponting, Kallis, Sangakkara and Dravid stats were at same age. That proves that he is not at the same level as them as far as test cricket is concerned. Rest are all hyperboles and the need to hype stuffs that are far from reality.
    Why are you setting an age limit that's my question?
    Ponting failed in his final 3 4 years and that's why he ended up with that average, he let the team down in his final years how does that not count.
    When kohli will retire he will have better stats than Ponting, that's what matters.

  58. #58
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    Langer is the new Ian Chappel - saying good things about India to be in the news.

    Kohli is a supreme player, one of the very best.

    But after having seen Lara, Richards, Ponting, Imran, Wasim in his lifetime, I am a bit surprised Langer opts for Kohli.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    All this talk of Kohli choking in ODI knockouts needs some perspective as well.

    Gilchrist played about 7/8 semifinals in his career and he flopped badly every single time. However, his team was so strong that they carried him to the final almost every single time and allowed him to make amends in the final.

    Ponting scored 2 (8) in the 2003 World Cup semifinal, but his team carried himself into the final and presented him with the opportunity to score that devastating hundred in the final.

    @MMHS mentioned Sir Viv, and no one can dispute his status and legacy especially in the ODI format.

    His place in history was established with the 138* in the 1979 final, but would Sir Viv have made the final in the first place if it wasn’t for the 130+ that Greenidge and Haynes put up for the first wicket against Imran Khan and Sarfraz Nawaz, effectively batting Pakistan out of the game even before Sir Viv arrived for his half-baked cameo?

    Sir Viv was the weakest West Indies batsman on that day, but that did not stop his team from winning the game and allowing him the opportunity to play one of finest ODI knocks ever in the final.

    Kohli’s influence on his team results is so huge that if he fails in a big game the whole team collapses.

    If his team was as strong as Clive’s West Indies and Ponting’s Australia, he would also get multiple second chances to make amends and alter the false perception that he is a big game bottler.

    Who knows what would and could have happened if his team would have carried him into the 2015 and 2019 World Cup finals the way Clive’s West Indies and Ponting’s Australia carried Sir Viv, Ponting and Gilchrist into the 1979 and 2003 World Cup finals respectively.

    Does Kohli need to take responsibility for what happened at the Oval against the 8th ranked side in 2017 and what happened in the last two World Cup semis?

    Sure he does, but the point is that the makeup of the team allows certain great players multiple attempts to make amends while others are only allowed one crack in one tournament.
    In Monday morning work meetings, this is how I used to justify not meeting my targets ;)

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corridor of Uncertainty View Post
    Langer is the new Ian Chappel - saying good things about India to be in the news.

    Kohli is a supreme player, one of the very best.

    But after having seen Lara, Richards, Ponting, Imran, Wasim in his lifetime, I am a bit surprised Langer opts for Kohli.
    I'll preface my post by saying Australians often do this before a series. They butter you up and then go for the kill. Remember, Ponting talking about Babar last year?

    Now onto my opinion.

    There is a way to have Kohli ranked on top as the best batsman. Athletes like Langer that have played the game understand how grueling the modern schedule is. It's non-stop with an additional format (T20s) the other legends never or barely played.

    For an Indian captain, it's even worse as it is rightly called the hardest job in cricket.

    Logically, no one should be able to do as well as Kohli has. Even his contemporaries have flaws in one format or the other because it's overwhelming to perform like a machine. Yet Kohli has.

    Kohli in comparison has been and is incredible in all three formats with one of the busiest schedules in the game. He can play go through all the gears as a batsman, has dominated in all conditions (home and away), and has dominated in all formats (home and away).

    He warrants his place among the greats and calling him the "best" isn't a crazy take. Debatable but not crazy.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Technically he can.

    Right now, it ain't even close.

    Yes he averages 60 in ODIs but what's the point when he flops in games that matter. This dude is choking like no tomorrow while Tendulkar had to take responsibility as early as 1996.

    In tests, Tendu is easily superior (yes Kohli had a great overseas cycle but it's one cycle...and he stat boosts a lot at home).

    T20I - Kohli is the GOAT based on performance.

    I just don't see Kohli anywhere near Tendulkar even in terms of career trajectory.

    In 2013, he looked like he would beat Tendu in terms of impact.

    Right now, I am not sure.
    Tendulkar is another level right now. The guy played 24 years at the top. It's going to be ridiculous to put someone barely in his 11th year in international cricket at Tendulkar's level already. He's a giant among the giants as far his achievements are concerned.

    Kohli's biggest upcoming test is going to be whether he has the desire to put in tje hard work well into his late 30s.

    Tendulkar was a freak in the sense that his desired to play cricket at the top level never ever dropped. If his body could support, he would be still playing cricket.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Why are you setting an age limit that's my question?
    Ponting failed in his final 3 4 years and that's why he ended up with that average, he let the team down in his final years how does that not count.
    When kohli will retire he will have better stats than Ponting, that's what matters.
    Because that is what Kohli's age is today. Heck, you can even compare year by year and you will find the difference in Ponting's test career graph compared to Kohli's.

    Ponting is considered a top tier ATG test batsmen and better than Kallis and Sangakkara irrespective of his test average because he had one of the greatest peaks of all-time. It doesn't matter how he or Tendulkar ended their career, they remain better than their contemporaries.

    If it was really about where one ends in the final years, are you willing to concede that Kallis and Sangakkara are better test batsmen than Tendulkar and Ponting? Final stats don't necessarily derive a career.

    Fact is till now, Kohli's test career has been similar to Amla and AB and a couple of levels below Tendulkar, Ponting or Kallis and his ODI career has been similar to AB.
    Last edited by Ab Fan; 14th November 2020 at 13:12.

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    I feel its not fair to compare age wise stats from one era player with another era player.
    Sachin era played more tests, there was no concept of t20.
    Kohli era played less tests because of new format t20.

    Obviously age wise stats wont give correct picture.


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Because that is what Kohli's age is today. Heck, you can even compare year by year and you will find the difference in Ponting's test career graph compared to Kohli's.

    Ponting is considered a top tier ATG test batsmen and better than Kallis and Sangakkara irrespective of his test average because he had one of the greatest peaks of all-time. It doesn't matter how he or Tendulkar ended their career, they remain better than their contemporaries.

    If it was really about where one ends in the final years, are you willing to concede that Kallis and Sangakkara are better test batsmen than Tendulkar and Ponting? Final stats don't necessarily derive a career.

    Fact is till now, Kohli's test career has been similar to Amla and AB and a couple of levels below Tendulkar, Ponting or Kallis and his ODI career has been similar to AB.
    Again you are wrong, ponting is considered better than sanga not because he had a better peak(actually i am sure sanga has a better peak than him). Sangakkara 's performance away from home in SENA wasn't good enough when compared to ponting. Also sangakkara padded his stats against zim and bangladesh.
    Secondly Ponting being better than kallis(which is highly debatable) is because kallis belonged to the class of players like dravid who weren't great shotmakers but defensive batsman. People rate players like these a bit low when compared to the tendus, kohlis and Ponting. Chanderpaul gets little credit even though he averages 52 just because he batted with a str rate of 43.

    As i said Ponting played in the easiest conditions and against poor attacks most of the time. He was never on the same level as tendu and lara. For me ponting and kohli are similar level batsman as of now and kohli will surely overtake him by the end of his career.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Kohli is the greatest white ball batsman ever, and he is also a brilliant Test batsman.

    If you consider batsmen across all formats, no player has ever excelled in all three formats like he has.

    In addition, he is also the greatest Asian Test captain ever.

    Langer may not be off the mark here.
    Greatest Asian captain ever? For what? Being a home track bully? I would have thought after that embarrassing whitewash earlier this year by NZ, Kohli fans wouldnt make such proclamations.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    Greatest Asian captain ever? For what? Being a home track bully? I would have thought after that embarrassing whitewash earlier this year by NZ, Kohli fans wouldnt make such proclamations.
    If being a “home track bully” is so easy all teams would have had a brilliant record at home.

    India under Kohli are by far the strongest home team in the world and no one comes even close.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Again you are wrong, ponting is considered better than sanga not because he had a better peak(actually i am sure sanga has a better peak than him). Sangakkara 's performance away from home in SENA wasn't good enough when compared to ponting. Also sangakkara padded his stats against zim and bangladesh.
    Secondly Ponting being better than kallis(which is highly debatable) is because kallis belonged to the class of players like dravid who weren't great shotmakers but defensive batsman. People rate players like these a bit low when compared to the tendus, kohlis and Ponting. Chanderpaul gets little credit even though he averages 52 just because he batted with a str rate of 43.

    As i said Ponting played in the easiest conditions and against poor attacks most of the time. He was never on the same level as tendu and lara. For me ponting and kohli are similar level batsman as of now and kohli will surely overtake him by the end of his career.
    Spot on. I am not even going to bother discussing about how overrated the little pipseuqak cheating punter is.

    Kohli is better and superior in tests. Ponting is ahead for now in odi until Kohli does well in KO stages. Kohli is winning the 2023 WC anyway.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Again you are wrong, ponting is considered better than sanga not because he had a better peak(actually i am sure sanga has a better peak than him). Sangakkara 's performance away from home in SENA wasn't good enough when compared to ponting. Also sangakkara padded his stats against zim and bangladesh.
    Secondly Ponting being better than kallis(which is highly debatable) is because kallis belonged to the class of players like dravid who weren't great shotmakers but defensive batsman. People rate players like these a bit low when compared to the tendus, kohlis and Ponting. Chanderpaul gets little credit even though he averages 52 just because he batted with a str rate of 43.

    As i said Ponting played in the easiest conditions and against poor attacks most of the time. He was never on the same level as tendu and lara. For me ponting and kohli are similar level batsman as of now and kohli will surely overtake him by the end of his career.
    Most of these facts are wrong.

    Sangakkara's performance away from home in SENA is as good as Kohli in SENA. He averages 45 away from home in SENA and Kohli averages 46 in SENA. Sanga has played some phenomenal innings in SENA.

    Ponting may have the luxury of McGrath and Warne but there were still very good bowling attacks and comparable ones to what Kohli has faced in this era. He smashed a chucking Murali in Sri Lanka better than anyone not named Lara and had lots of success vs peak Shoaib, Pollock and Steyn. His peak was insane by all standards. If we do micro-analysis, we will find that Kohli's average in SENA is quite inflated by feasting 600 runs on absolutely flat Australian pattas against a MJ and Harris who were on last legs and ultimately retired next year.

    Kohli hasn't done enough in test to be mentioned along the same lines as Ponting, Kallis and Sangakkara but one can call him ATG due to his LOI exploits.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Again you are wrong, ponting is considered better than sanga not because he had a better peak(actually i am sure sanga has a better peak than him). Sangakkara 's performance away from home in SENA wasn't good enough when compared to ponting. Also sangakkara padded his stats against zim and bangladesh.
    Secondly Ponting being better than kallis(which is highly debatable) is because kallis belonged to the class of players like dravid who weren't great shotmakers but defensive batsman. People rate players like these a bit low when compared to the tendus, kohlis and Ponting. Chanderpaul gets little credit even though he averages 52 just because he batted with a str rate of 43.

    As i said Ponting played in the easiest conditions and against poor attacks most of the time. He was never on the same level as tendu and lara. For me ponting and kohli are similar level batsman as of now and kohli will surely overtake him by the end of his career.
    Also, Sanga don't have better peak than Ponting. Ponting averaged 70 between 2002-07 while Sanga averaged close to 64-65 in his peak years.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Most of these facts are wrong.

    Sangakkara's performance away from home in SENA is as good as Kohli in SENA. He averages 45 away from home in SENA and Kohli averages 46 in SENA. Sanga has played some phenomenal innings in SENA.

    Ponting may have the luxury of McGrath and Warne but there were still very good bowling attacks and comparable ones to what Kohli has faced in this era. He smashed a chucking Murali in Sri Lanka better than anyone not named Lara and had lots of success vs peak Shoaib, Pollock and Steyn. His peak was insane by all standards. If we do micro-analysis, we will find that Kohli's average in SENA is quite inflated by feasting 600 runs on absolutely flat Australian pattas against a MJ and Harris who were on last legs and ultimately retired next year.

    Kohli hasn't done enough in test to be mentioned along the same lines as Ponting, Kallis and Sangakkara but one can call him ATG due to his LOI exploits.
    Yea Kohli has done more actually.
    Posting sucked in India. Kohli doesn't have a glaring weakness vs spin like Ponting.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Also, Sanga don't have better peak than Ponting. Ponting averaged 70 between 2002-07 while Sanga averaged close to 64-65 in his peak years.
    Who did he vs to average 70 against in that period?

    He played on roads at the time vs weak bowling attacks in home condtions.

    Hell ABD defecates on Ponting.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Who did he vs to average 70 against in that period?

    He played on roads at the time vs weak bowling attacks in home condtions.

    Hell ABD defecates on Ponting.
    Yeah I got you, Ponting feasted on nobodies and Kohli has dominated ATGs...lol

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmal View Post
    Yeah I got you, Ponting feasted on nobodies and Kohli has dominated ATGs...lol
    He din't face the best attack of his time you numbnut. Australia had the best attack. He played vs weak Indian bowling attack, weak older Pakistani attack, weak Sri Lankan attack. Everyone was weak except saffers in 08. Guess what happened when they faced saffers with a good attack. They got pieced up in their own country.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmal View Post
    Yeah I got you, Ponting feasted on nobodies and Kohli has dominated ATGs...lol
    You can never call yourself the best ever if you fared badly in India. Punter struggled in India and that's his drawback. If potning dominated in India I would put him above Kohli easily.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If being a “home track bully” is so easy all teams would have had a brilliant record at home.

    India under Kohli are by far the strongest home team in the world and no one comes even close.
    India have been winning at home since 90s and will continue to do so even in future.

    Kohli or no Kohli, it doesn't matter much for India at home as we saw in that 2017 series against Aus in India.

    So we can't judge Kohli based on his home wins as Azhar, Ganguly, Dhoni...all have dominated at home.

    His real test was abroad and he doesn't have much to show for all the hype he gets.

    Ganguly is still the best Indian skipper.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmal View Post
    India have been winning at home since 90s and will continue to do so even in future.

    Kohli or no Kohli, it doesn't matter much for India at home as we saw in that 2017 series against Aus in India.

    So we can't judge Kohli based on his home wins as Azhar, Ganguly, Dhoni...all have dominated at home.

    His real test was abroad and he doesn't have much to show for all the hype he gets.

    Ganguly is still the best Indian skipper.
    India play t20, odi and tests lol. 3 formats lol
    India also play the most number of games post 2000.
    In 2000 era under Ganguly India never played odi and T20 prior to an important tes series hence they weren't fatigued.

    Now India play both before a major test series. If you actually played sport you would know how taxing it could be on your body for the players.

    India don't even have time to play tour games due to the packed schedule.

    These are things you need to factor in before proclaiming Ganguly to be greater than Virat.

    Yea ganguly's team performed well abroad but they never dominated at home ruthlessly like India does at home.

    If India had the advantage of preparing for a tailored test series based season then the results would be vastly different.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    India play t20, odi and tests lol. 3 formats lol
    India also play the most number of games post 2000.
    In 2000 era under Ganguly India never played odi and T20 prior to an important tes series hence they weren't fatigued.

    Now India play both before a major test series. If you actually played sport you would know how taxing it could be on your body for the players.

    India don't even have time to play tour games due to the packed schedule.

    These are things you need to factor in before proclaiming Ganguly to be greater than Virat.

    Yea ganguly's team performed well abroad but they never dominated at home ruthlessly like India does at home.

    If India had the advantage of preparing for a tailored test series based season then the results would be vastly different.
    Ganguly was a better test captain than Kohli. Under Ganguly, India got into the habit of winning tests overseas that was unthinkable for them in the previous decade. Kohli is still a good captain but for having the supposed best team in the world, he has got into the habit of losing overseas series, his victory against a weakened Australian side aside.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If being a “home track bully” is so easy all teams would have had a brilliant record at home.

    India under Kohli are by far the strongest home team in the world and no one comes even close.
    Being super strong at home doesn't mean much when you go overseas as the world no. 1 and get whitewashed by NZ. Well people will look back on Kohli as captain I guarantee you nobody will care about any of those home victories.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Also, Sanga don't have better peak than Ponting. Ponting averaged 70 between 2002-07 while Sanga averaged close to 64-65 in his peak years.
    You don't decide how good a player is just by analysing his peak. Kohli, sanga all have insane peaks where they average over 60+.
    Ponting has the best peak but that doesn't make him better than tendu or lara or even kohli.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    Ganguly was a better test captain than Kohli. Under Ganguly, India got into the habit of winning tests overseas that was unthinkable for them in the previous decade. Kohli is still a good captain but for having the supposed best team in the world, he has got into the habit of losing overseas series, his victory against a weakened Australian side aside.
    I stated my reasons as to why we lost. If we actually prepared for an overseas test series without playing shorter formats beforehand and still lost I will gladly accept Ganguly as the superior captain. Circumstances are different. at the end of the day Kohli has won a series in Australia. That's what matters.

    Australia also won in 2004 vs a weakens Indian side. People still regard that as a great overseas win.

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