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  1. #1
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    Message to Indian bowlers : Steven Smith not worried about short-ball ploy

    Steven Smith isn’t losing sleep over the short-ball ploy teams have been targeting him with and instead feels it could actually work in Australia’s favour.

    India’s pace attack, which boasts of a bowling strike-rate of 42.6 since 2018, the best among all teams in Tests, might pose a major threat but Smith isn’t too worried if they decide to bang the ball in at him.

    Smith was targeted by the short ball in the recent past by England and New Zealand. Jofra Archer and Neil Wagner used this successfully against him with the latter dismissing him four times with the short ball last summer. He reserved praise for Wagner but isn’t sure others can replicate what he did.

    "It's no dramas for me. I just play the game and sum up the conditions, how they're trying to get me out and being able to counter that. I mean, a few different oppositions have tried it and they've certainly found it more difficult to [execute it] the way Wagner did. He's got an amazing skill set where his speeds go up and down, everything is between your ribs and your head,” Smith said.

    Smith is the No.1 batsman on the MRF ICC Men's Test Batting rankings after a stellar 2019. He did have a reasonably good series against New Zealand despite Wagner’s success against him, averaging 42.80. Although the strike-rate was his lowest in any Test series, Smith wore the bowlers down and he believes that a similar approach works to Australia’s advantage.

    "If teams are trying to get me out like that it's probably a big benefit for the team because it takes a lot out of people's bodies if you continually bowl short. I've faced a lot of short bowling in my life and I haven't had too many stresses with it. I suppose we'll just wait and see."

    Smith wasn’t part of the last series between these two teams in Australia. The Test series begins with the day/night Test in Adelaide from December 17. India are at the top of the ICC World Test Championship points table with 360 points. Australia are right behind them with 296 points.

    https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/1897555


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  2. #2
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    Smith has never faced Bumrah. If there is an contemporary bowler who can dominate Smith in Tests, it has to be him.

    If Smith can dominate a red hot Bumrah, for me he will establish himself as the greatest Test batsman since Bradman. IMO, it is his final challenge.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Smith has never faced Bumrah. If there is an contemporary bowler who can dominate Smith in Tests, it has to be him.

    If Smith can dominate a red hot Bumrah, for me he will establish himself as the greatest Test batsman since Bradman. IMO, it is his final challenge.
    Bumrah was ordinary in New Zealand. Itíll be the same in Aus. Heís not bowling to Khawaja, the Marsh brothers, Marcus Harris etc anymore.

  4. #4
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    4-0 clean sweep is loading.
    How many times indian bowlers will get him out in test series?
    Only 2-3 times😁

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by zain7077 View Post
    Bumrah was ordinary in New Zealand. Itíll be the same in Aus. Heís not bowling to Khawaja, the Marsh brothers, Marcus Harris etc anymore.
    Bumrah has pwned many great batsmen in all fornat. This post reeks of jealousy. As if that series was the only series Bumrah ever played. Dude has a bowling average of 20 in tests for a reason, including 25 against england and 25 against South Africa

  6. #6
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    This short ball theory has been blown out of proportion, you can't average 75 in australia if you are vulnerable against short bowling.
    The usual suspects who want to downplay Smith because they need to protect their old legends are the ones who have made a mountain out of this molehill.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banton10 View Post
    4-0 clean sweep is loading.
    How many times indian bowlers will get him out in test series?
    Only 2-3 times😁
    8 times.

  8. #8
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    Smith will rival Bradman this series. Just wait and watch.

  9. #9
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    Smith has hit three hundreds vs Ashwin/Jadeja in India.

    Smith has hit many runs vs Anderson, Broad and Archer in England.

    Smith has also dominated Steyn and Philander in SA.

    Smith has an overall away average of 57. He is heading on his way to become the greatest test batsmen of all-time while Kohli is behind Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Sangakkara and Kallis in test format.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Smith has hit three hundreds vs Ashwin/Jadeja in India.

    Smith has hit many runs vs Anderson, Broad and Archer in England.

    Smith has also dominated Steyn and Philander in SA.

    Smith has an overall away average of 57. He is heading on his way to become the greatest test batsmen of all-time while Kohli is behind Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Sangakkara and Kallis in test format.
    Yea Smith is the best ever. That has already been established.

    Ponting sanga above Kohli is absolutely fallacious.

    Punter got punted and stomped on when he toured India. Little pee wee got wrecked.

    Sanga rofl. How did he go in India actually?

  11. #11
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    BTW in 2 of the hundreds Smith scored vs ashwin jaddu, he was dropped a total of 6 times. Just saying.

    He is still the best ever though.

  12. #12
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    My prediction: Smith will score at least 3 centuries and be the top-scorer of the series.

  13. #13
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    Lol who’s going to bowl this bouncers at Smith, Deepak Chahar?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Yea Smith is the best ever. That has already been established.

    Ponting sanga above Kohli is absolutely fallacious.

    Punter got punted and stomped on when he toured India. Little pee wee got wrecked.

    Sanga rofl. How did he go in India actually?
    Seeing this level of logic, I'm pretty sure you think Dravid couldn't play either pace or spin since he averages 29 in SA and 33 in SL.


    Ponting averages 48 in SL playing most of the matches against Murali. Kohli averages 43 playing Herath and a bunch of nobodies.

    In totality, Ponting averages higher than Kohli in England, New Zealand, West Indies, Australia, Sri Lanka, West Indies and Bangladesh. I'm not sure but this sounds like a stomping to me.

    I'm pretty sure that if I dig some of Sanga's stats, they'll easily be better than Kohli's.

    In essence, Kohli is by far the most overhyped batsman of this generation. The guy averages 68 at home and 44 away, and even at home the guy was a total failure against the only world class spin attack that visited India since 2012 (Australia 2017).

    At best he's a Michael Hussey level test bat with insane home stat padding and above average overseas. It's a shame that they even compare this clown with Smith. Not to mention the harm that this guy has been doing to the team with this stupid politics and favoritism for the past 5 years.

  15. #15
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    He has shown in the past he willing to be patient and will cash in eventually.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Smith has never faced Bumrah. If there is an contemporary bowler who can dominate Smith in Tests, it has to be him.

    If Smith can dominate a red hot Bumrah, for me he will establish himself as the greatest Test batsman since Bradman. IMO, it is his final challenge.
    This is real cricket. Not Ashes 2013 on PS4 or Don Bradman Cricket. A player doesn’t just depend on reputation and you can’t just keep reloading him to bowl again and again like you do in a video game. Even if Smith is surprised by him in one of his first spells, you can bet your house that he will dominate him for the remaining 14-16 days scheduled in the 4 match Test series. If India don’t win the first Test, you will also see a lot of these Indian stars mentally breaking down and not even play the 3rd/4th Test.


    "The Indian bowling attack is as devastating as the Teletubbies"- Sir Ian Botham

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Lol who’s going to bowl this bouncers at Smith, Deepak Chahar?
    Bumrah can. Shami can. Not that it could work. It may or it may not. Smith is the GOaT.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Seeing this level of logic, I'm pretty sure you think Dravid couldn't play either pace or spin since he averages 29 in SA and 33 in SL.


    Ponting averages 48 in SL playing most of the matches against Murali. Kohli averages 43 playing Herath and a bunch of nobodies.

    In totality, Ponting averages higher than Kohli in England, New Zealand, West Indies, Australia, Sri Lanka, West Indies and Bangladesh. I'm not sure but this sounds like a stomping to me.

    I'm pretty sure that if I dig some of Sanga's stats, they'll easily be better than Kohli's.

    In essence, Kohli is by far the most overhyped batsman of this generation. The guy averages 68 at home and 44 away, and even at home the guy was a total failure against the only world class spin attack that visited India since 2012 (Australia 2017).

    At best he's a Michael Hussey level test bat with insane home stat padding and above average overseas. It's a shame that they even compare this clown with Smith. Not to mention the harm that this guy has been doing to the team with this stupid politics and favoritism for the past 5 years.
    Ponting played on roads in the 2000 era and he struggled vs India who were always difficult to beat at their home.

    Kohli feasted on weaker attacks. Weak Asian attacks. Infact he never even faced Steyn at his best. 08 he did and guess what happened that series at their home? They got spanked.

    Punter is lucky he had McGrath in the team THe real OG of the team. Without him they are nobodies.

    Kohli the way he played vs South Africa in 2018 on those deadly pitches is unprecedented. When everyone else were falling down like a pack of flies, Kohli stops tall.

    Smith is the bet ever in tests.

    Ponting had a great peak but I can't rate him I'd he din't perform against India in India. Had he done so I would put him above Kohli.

  19. #19
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    Smith has weakness playing against leg spin but our genius selectors decided to pick none. Ravi Bishnoi or even Chahal should have been part of test team.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Ponting played on roads in the 2000 era and he struggled vs India who were always difficult to beat at their home.

    Kohli feasted on weaker attacks. Weak Asian attacks. Infact he never even faced Steyn at his best. 08 he did and guess what happened that series at their home? They got spanked.

    Punter is lucky he had McGrath in the team THe real OG of the team. Without him they are nobodies.

    Kohli the way he played vs South Africa in 2018 on those deadly pitches is unprecedented. When everyone else were falling down like a pack of flies, Kohli stops tall.

    Smith is the bet ever in tests.

    Ponting had a great peak but I can't rate him I'd he din't perform against India in India. Had he done so I would put him above Kohli.

    This is another myth that has been perpetuated without due questioning. See the scorecards, Kohli scored 153 in the test which was by far the most spin friendly wicket in the Series (Centurion). To put things in perspective - Ashwin opened the bowling in the 3rd innings and bowled close to 70 overs in the match! Pujara got run out in both innings otherwise I have no doubt he would have done as well if not better on that pitch.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    This is another myth that has been perpetuated without due questioning. See the scorecards, Kohli scored 153 in the test which was by far the most spin friendly wicket in the Series (Centurion). To put things in perspective - Ashwin opened the bowling in the 3rd innings and bowled close to 70 overs in the match! Pujara got run out in both innings otherwise I have no doubt he would have done as well if not better on that pitch.
    Not true at all. See the wanderers pitch. That was awful. Kohli stood up again. Yes Pujara run out dented India's chance in the centurion Test but everyone on the field were getting cleaned up, Kohli raised the bar yet again single handedly.

    You watch the whole series again and come back to me. What he did vs South Africa in those condtions was indeed very special.

    Kohli btw is elite in all 3 formats. That needs to accounted for. Had he been allowed the benefit of neglecting t20s and giving lesser importance to odi's I have no doubt he can match even the mighty Steve Smith. He is just that good. I am not even a fan of Kohli but I recognise greatness when i see it.

    Yes he is not a great captain as he often picks favourites but he is no doubt an ATG and definitely above punter and Santa. Mind you, his career isn't even finished.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    Smith has weakness playing against leg spin but our genius selectors decided to pick none. Ravi Bishnoi or even Chahal should have been part of test team.
    bishnoi yes but jaddu is more valuable Ashe can bat


    We need some bowlers who can bat too. Aussies tail can bat in their home condtions.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Seeing this level of logic, I'm pretty sure you think Dravid couldn't play either pace or spin since he averages 29 in SA and 33 in SL.


    Ponting averages 48 in SL playing most of the matches against Murali. Kohli averages 43 playing Herath and a bunch of nobodies.
    Its pretty common knowledge that dravid failed against the best attacks of his time.In Australia he averages 41 and that too becox he piled on runs against an attack missing MCgrath and warne.Similarly he failed against southafrica(steyn,donald,pollock,etc) and Murali too.Also,Herath is the GOAT SLAO ,i guess its not that easy to make runs against him

    In totality, Ponting averages higher than Kohli in England, New Zealand, West Indies, Australia, Sri Lanka, West Indies and Bangladesh. I'm not sure but this sounds like a stomping to me.
    Kohli averages more than Ponting in SENA and thats pretty much it.Including West Indies,bangladesh shows how weak your argument is.

    I'm pretty sure that if I dig some of Sanga's stats, they'll easily be better than Kohli's.

    In essence, Kohli is by far the most overhyped batsman of this generation. The guy averages 68 at home and 44 away, and even at home the guy was a total failure against the only world class spin attack that visited India since 2012 (Australia 2017).
    The same aussie spinner toured in 2013 and guess what Kohli averaged 60 but obviously only failures count.Also kohli averages 50+ vs Lyon so all that hoopla around him failing against spin is just baseless

    At best he's a Michael Hussey level test bat with insane home stat padding and above average overseas. It's a shame that they even compare this clown with Smith. Not to mention the harm that this guy has been doing to the team with this stupid politics and favoritism for the past 5 years.
    .

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    This is another myth that has been perpetuated without due questioning. See the scorecards, Kohli scored 153 in the test which was by far the most spin friendly wicket in the Series (Centurion). To put things in perspective - Ashwin opened the bowling in the 3rd innings and bowled close to 70 overs in the match! Pujara got run out in both innings otherwise I have no doubt he would have done as well if not better on that pitch.
    You are wrong yet again,yes the pitch was suited to spinners too but the pitch had variable bounce.Watch how the ball was keeping low quite a lot of times.Ngidi got virat out in the second innings becoz ball didn’t bounce much,also if the pitch was subcontinent style why did the other FTBs failed.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Lol who’s going to bowl this bouncers at Smith, Deepak Chahar?
    Shami Bumrah Sharma Saini.We are blessed

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Smith has never faced Bumrah. If there is an contemporary bowler who can dominate Smith in Tests, it has to be him.

    If Smith can dominate a red hot Bumrah, for me he will establish himself as the greatest Test batsman since Bradman. IMO, it is his final challenge.
    Smith has nothing left to prove to anyone.

    The onus is on Bumrah to prove that his 2018 performance wasn't a fluke and he can be as good against a full-strength Aussie batting line-up.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Yea Smith is the best ever. That has already been established.

    Ponting sanga above Kohli is absolutely fallacious.

    Punter got punted and stomped on when he toured India. Little pee wee got wrecked.

    Sanga rofl. How did he go in India actually?
    AB has done well in India and particularly on the wickets that were heavily criticised as rank turners in 2015 and he was the best batsmen in that series which had Kohli and Amla both.

    So, since he has done well on rank turners in India, can we say he is a better test batsmen than Sanga and Ponting?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by zain7077 View Post
    Bumrah was ordinary in New Zealand. Itíll be the same in Aus. Heís not bowling to Khawaja, the Marsh brothers, Marcus Harris etc anymore.
    Bumrah was out of form in NZ. He looked out of rhythm. However, he is looking very good these days and should be able to bowl at the same level he did in Australia two years ago.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Shami Bumrah Sharma Saini.We are blessed
    Saini should play a Test somewhere. Doubt he will play all 4.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmal View Post
    Smith has nothing left to prove to anyone.

    The onus is on Bumrah to prove that his 2018 performance wasn't a fluke and he can be as good against a full-strength Aussie batting line-up.
    Smith has nothing left to prove because he has established himself as one of greatest Test batsmen ever.

    However, dominating Bumrah would enhance his legacy.

    Same goes for Bumrah. He has established himself as a world class bowler and there was nothing flukey about his performance.

    His spells in that series were exceptional regardless of the quality of Australian batsmen.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    AB has done well in India and particularly on the wickets that were heavily criticised as rank turners in 2015 and he was the best batsmen in that series which had Kohli and Amla both.

    So, since he has done well on rank turners in India, can we say he is a better test batsmen than Sanga and Ponting?
    Yeah...going by his logic Hayden, Cook, Amla, Younus, Clarke all are better than Sanga, Ponting since they have scored in India...lol

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    This is real cricket. Not Ashes 2013 on PS4 or Don Bradman Cricket. A player doesn’t just depend on reputation and you can’t just keep reloading him to bowl again and again like you do in a video game. Even if Smith is surprised by him in one of his first spells, you can bet your house that he will dominate him for the remaining 14-16 days scheduled in the 4 match Test series. If India don’t win the first Test, you will also see a lot of these Indian stars mentally breaking down and not even play the 3rd/4th Test.
    Donít try to teach me cricket because it will not end well for you.

    Neither Smith nor Bumrah will come out of the series as a lesser player regardless of who dominates who.

    It is a long series and both players will have plenty of opportunities to make comebacks and try to outdo each other.

  33. #33
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    Kohli's century at J'burg 2013 on 1st day fresh pitch when team was struggling at 24/2 against an attack of Steyn, Philander, Morkel, Kallis, Tahir was a terrific knock. You got to be extremely bitter to discredit it. It was one of the best test knocks Virat ever played.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Don’t try to teach me cricket because it will not end well for you.

    Neither Smith nor Bumrah will come out of the series as a lesser player regardless of who dominates who.

    It is a long series and both players will have plenty of opportunities to make comebacks and try to outdo each other.

    I swear I remember you calling Bumrah a gimmick who may fade away soon a few months ago?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Don’t try to teach me cricket because it will not end well for you.

    Neither Smith nor Bumrah will come out of the series as a lesser player regardless of who dominates who.

    It is a long series and both players will have plenty of opportunities to make comebacks and try to outdo each other.
    Keep your excuses up pal. Just like you were making them for Faf yesterday. You’ve hyped Bumrah and Kohli up more than realistic, sensible Indian fans who will have to face the ridicule because of you. Humility is a thing. And if you think that Bumrah is gaurenteed to give 120-150 at the same intensity over a span of 4 Test matches then it clearly is in line with your usual over hyping of Indian players.

    No one asked or cares if Bumrah performs or doesn’t, but hyping him up as if he is the second coming of Malcolm Marshal on this tour to take on Steve Smith is not going to end well for you.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Smith has nothing left to prove because he has established himself as one of greatest Test batsmen ever.

    However, dominating Bumrah would enhance his legacy.

    Same goes for Bumrah. He has established himself as a world class bowler and there was nothing flukey about his performance.

    His spells in that series were exceptional regardless of the quality of Australian batsmen.
    I agree about Smith.

    Bumrah has had really great start so far but the sample size is very small and he's yet to play a Test in Asia.

    He was great in Aus last time but surely bowling to Smith and Warner isn't same as bowling to Khwaja, Harris and co.

  37. #37
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    While Bumrah is getting all the limelight, I feel that it is Shami who could trouble Smith.

    Shami is in fantastic rhythm for the past 2 years and hopefully he doesn't lose it or get injured during the (unnecessary) LOIs before the test series.

    However, 4-0 on the cards for India.

    Smith, Warner, Labu, Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood, Lyon > Bumrah, Shami, Pujara, Kohli(1 test only)

    Moreover, the new Aussie kids who will debut in this series could surprise everyone.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Yea Smith is the best ever. That has already been established.

    Ponting sanga above Kohli is absolutely fallacious.

    Punter got punted and stomped on when he toured India. Little pee wee got wrecked.

    Sanga rofl. How did he go in India actually?
    Sanga has played only 2 series in India.
    In his first tour he came as a wicket keeper batsman and sometimes he batted as an opener,do you imagine what it feels like to keep all the day in tests and come next day as an opener.
    In his second tour he had a good tour,scored a century in Mumbai day 4 turning track trying to save the game unfortunately he didn't.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Smith has never faced Bumrah. If there is an contemporary bowler who can dominate Smith in Tests, it has to be him.

    If Smith can dominate a red hot Bumrah, for me he will establish himself as the greatest Test batsman since Bradman. IMO, it is his final challenge.
    Masha Allah this forum has amazing people

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    I'm a fan of Smith, and I accept that he's an amazing batsman (especially in Tests), and will likely go down as one of the best to ever do it. However, isn't it too early to say he's at that level yet?

    Nevermind, just before sending this I checked Cricinfo. He averages 62, in over 70 tests. GOAT material.

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    What do people expect Smith to say?


    Quote Originally Posted by Saqs on Steve Smith
    And who taught him to bat? Chris Martin? Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy0204 View Post
    Sanga has played only 2 series in India.
    In his first tour he came as a wicket keeper batsman and sometimes he batted as an opener,do you imagine what it feels like to keep all the day in tests and come next day as an opener.
    In his second tour he had a good tour,scored a century in Mumbai day 4 turning track trying to save the game unfortunately he didn't.
    Literally every single batsmen will have one or two major countries where they will average less than 40. This does not mean they are not great.

    Kohli is averaging in 30s in England and New Zealand. Same for Lara, Ponting, Sanga, Kallis and Dravid.

    Only three batsmen- SRT, Steve Smith and ABDV average 40+ in all the countries.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    What do people expect Smith to say?
    Exactly what Langer said....i.e Virat is the best batsman he has ever seen in his lifetime

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    AB has done well in India and particularly on the wickets that were heavily criticised as rank turners in 2015 and he was the best batsmen in that series which had Kohli and Amla both.

    So, since he has done well on rank turners in India, can we say he is a better test batsmen than Sanga and Ponting?
    but ABD failed in some other countries. i cant be bothered looking it up but he is weaker compared to ponting vs certain top nations.

    ponting was good but kohli is better overall as he doesnt have a glaring weakness like ponting vs india.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy0204 View Post
    Sanga has played only 2 series in India.
    In his first tour he came as a wicket keeper batsman and sometimes he batted as an opener,do you imagine what it feels like to keep all the day in tests and come next day as an opener.
    In his second tour he had a good tour,scored a century in Mumbai day 4 turning track trying to save the game unfortunately he didn't.
    i understand but sanga dint outperform kohli in SENA either. I never stopped him from not being a keeper though? He chose to be a keeper.
    I never looked at it that way though. Interesting point of view.

    sanga could be better then i suppose if he wasnt so fatigued. Maybe you are right. gilchrist and sanga > kohli, ponting and ABD?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Literally every single batsmen will have one or two major countries where they will average less than 40. This does not mean they are not great.

    Kohli is averaging in 30s in England and New Zealand. Same for Lara, Ponting, Sanga, Kallis and Dravid.

    Only three batsmen- SRT, Steve Smith and ABDV average 40+ in all the countries.
    ok dude. potning is greater than kohli. kohli's career is not finished yet though.

    ABD averaged 33 in bangldesh lol.

    btw problem with ABD is that he averaged 40s vs many top sides. he dint quite dominate them like kohli or ponting.
    Last edited by tyron_woodley; 15th November 2020 at 22:20.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Lol who’s going to bowl this bouncers at Smith, Deepak Chahar?
    You know that Chahar not picked tests.
    Well, we have shami and Bumrah.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Lol who’s going to bowl this bouncers at Smith, Deepak Chahar?
    If you had seen or aware of India’s last tour to AUS, you would not be asking this useless question....

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    ok dude. potning is greater than kohli. kohli's career is not finished yet though.

    ABD averaged 33 in bangldesh lol.

    btw problem with ABD is that he averaged 40s vs many top sides. he dint quite dominate them like kohli or ponting.
    Bangladesh and Zimbabwe are not relevant. Anyways, AB was just an example although he was among top 2 batsmen in both the heavily bowling friendly tours that India had( 2015 at home &18 away).

    As I said, Kohli needs about 3K- 4k runs more at similar average to be considered better than Ponting, Kallis and Sangakkara. Tendulkar is out of syllabus for him because for that, you need to average 60 with over 10K test runs.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Bangladesh and Zimbabwe are not relevant. Anyways, AB was just an example although he was among top 2 batsmen in both the heavily bowling friendly tours that India had( 2015 at home &18 away).

    As I said, Kohli needs about 3K- 4k runs more at similar average to be considered better than Ponting, Kallis and Sangakkara. Tendulkar is out of syllabus for him because for that, you need to average 60 with over 10K test runs.
    Remove Sangakkara
    He scored heavily against minnows and in subcontinent.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Remove Sangakkara
    He scored heavily against minnows and in subcontinent.
    Sanga averaged 45 in SENA and even after removing minnows, he averages 52. Also, he kept gloves which is not easy task in test cricket.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Bangladesh and Zimbabwe are not relevant. Anyways, AB was just an example although he was among top 2 batsmen in both the heavily bowling friendly tours that India had( 2015 at home &18 away).

    As I said, Kohli needs about 3K- 4k runs more at similar average to be considered better than Ponting, Kallis and Sangakkara. Tendulkar is out of syllabus for him because for that, you need to average 60 with over 10K test runs.
    Fair enough. I agree about Sanga. I understimated how hard it is to keep and bat. Gilly should be up there too.
    Not to mention Sanga was captain. More pressure.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Fair enough. I agree about Sanga. I understimated how hard it is to keep and bat. Gilly should be up there too.
    Not to mention Sanga was captain. More pressure.
    Lol Sanga is a mediocre captain.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Sanga averaged 45 in SENA and even after removing minnows, he averages 52. Also, he kept gloves which is not easy task in test cricket.
    Ohh
    I thought he kept gloves only in few matches.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Ohh
    I thought he kept gloves only in few matches.
    He kept in 48 tests, that's certainly not few.

  56. #56
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    Sanga stats were disturbed due to keeping and batting at no 3,
    not even De Villiers and Gilchrist who had great stats as a wicketkeeper batsman came out to play at no 3.

  57. #57
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    It is very difficult to keep in tests as well as to bat in top order.
    There is a reason why Sangakkara and de Villiers dropped the gloves because they were playing as top order batsmen.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Smith has never faced Bumrah. If there is an contemporary bowler who can dominate Smith in Tests, it has to be him.

    If Smith can dominate a red hot Bumrah, for me he will establish himself as the greatest Test batsman since Bradman. IMO, it is his final challenge.
    Smith has dominated Steyn and Philander in sa, Boult in nz, Anderson and Broad in eng but in order to estabilish himself as a goat he must dominate Bumrah who has 68 test wickets. What about rabada who is 25 but already has more wickets then shohaib akhtar.

  59. #59
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    Smith hasn't dominated Rabada in tests so far.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy0204 View Post
    Smith hasn't dominated Rabada in tests so far.
    Neil Wagner too.
    Both kohli and Smith failed against him.
    Horrible record.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Neil Wagner too.
    Both kohli and Smith failed against him.
    Horrible record.
    Kohli and Smith scored against Wagner in 2014 and 2016 tour respectively but Smith hasn't yet scored a century when Rabada was there.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHN1293 View Post
    Smith has dominated Steyn and Philander in sa, Boult in nz, Anderson and Broad in eng but in order to estabilish himself as a goat he must dominate Bumrah who has 68 test wickets. What about rabada who is 25 but already has more wickets then shohaib akhtar.
    Little baccha, bumrah's main strength is you know what? Bouncer. Go watch the 2018 series and count the number of times the Indian bowlers bouncer the Aussies out.
    I mean actually hurt them enough to take them out of the game.

    Anyway that's not the point. Bumrah is more than capable of hurting Warner and Smith with a brutal bouncer. So is Shami. Will he succeed? Maybe. Maybe not? Smith is GOAT for a reason. Bumrah is a great bowler but we shall see if he can get the better of smith In condtions that actually suit bumrah quite well.

    Aussie and saffer condtions are ideal for ishant, Shami and bumrah. New Zealand swing condtions don't suit a hit the deck hard bowler like bumrah and Shami. It suits Ishant actually because he can swing and Bhuvi.

    Btw Smith never dominated rabada. Rabada wrecked him several times.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Neil Wagner too.
    Both kohli and Smith failed against him.
    Horrible record.
    Uhm Kohli absolutely smashed him in 2016.

    Kohli will figure him out soon for away tours as well.

  64. #64
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    Jaddu also dominated Smith a bit but Smith got a couple of hundred..... Here is the issue. Smith was dropped not once, not twice, a grand total of 6 times in 2 matches where he scored those 100s.

    India's fielding has declined post 2015.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    Exactly what Langer said....i.e Virat is the best batsman he has ever seen in his lifetime
    That would have been epic. But it wasn't even batsman, it was best player.
    Last edited by Kroll; 15th November 2020 at 23:27.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Jaddu also dominated Smith a bit but Smith got a couple of hundred..... Here is the issue. Smith was dropped not once, not twice, a grand total of 6 times in 2 matches where he scored those 100s.

    India's fielding has declined post 2015.
    No that was just Punes knock where he got a bumper chances but he batted well in Dharamsala and Ranchi.

  67. #67
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    India's quicks vs Smith, Warner, Labu. This should be fun

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Little baccha, bumrah's main strength is you know what? Bouncer. Go watch the 2018 series and count the number of times the Indian bowlers bouncer the Aussies out.
    I mean actually hurt them enough to take them out of the game.

    Anyway that's not the point. Bumrah is more than capable of hurting Warner and Smith with a brutal bouncer. So is Shami. Will he succeed? Maybe. Maybe not? Smith is GOAT for a reason. Bumrah is a great bowler but we shall see if he can get the better of smith In condtions that actually suit bumrah quite well.

    Aussie and saffer condtions are ideal for ishant, Shami and bumrah. New Zealand swing condtions don't suit a hit the deck hard bowler like bumrah and Shami. It suits Ishant actually because he can swing and Bhuvi.

    Btw Smith never dominated rabada. Rabada wrecked him several times.
    True we all saw what happened when archer bounced out smith. Smith came back with a double 100. And i never said that smith dominated rabada, i was comparing rabada to bumrah and stating that among the current crop of bowlers that can challenge smith rabada deserves to be mentioned higher than bumrah as he is younger and has acheived more.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHN1293 View Post
    True we all saw what happened when archer bounced out smith. Smith came back with a double 100. And i never said that smith dominated rabada, i was comparing rabada to bumrah and stating that among the current crop of bowlers that can challenge smith rabada deserves to be mentioned higher than bumrah as he is younger and has acheived more.
    Rabada is an AtG and already one of the best ever bowlers from South Africa.

    He is greater than Steyn. This coming from a huge Steyn fan.
    Last edited by tyron_woodley; 16th November 2020 at 04:52.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHN1293 View Post
    True we all saw what happened when archer bounced out smith. Smith came back with a double 100. And i never said that smith dominated rabada, i was comparing rabada to bumrah and stating that among the current crop of bowlers that can challenge smith rabada deserves to be mentioned higher than bumrah as he is younger and has acheived more.
    That's why I said. Bumrah may or he may not. Condtions do suit him.

    Smith is the best ever so we have to wait and see.

  71. #71
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    Smith has never been the same against the short ball since Jofra Archer hit him.

    The problem for India - rather like Pakistan a year ago - is that their pace attack is basically fast-medium bowlers of short stature. Ishant Sharma is the only tall one.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    That's why I said. Bumrah may or he may not. Condtions do suit him.

    Smith is the best ever so we have to wait and see.
    In what way do Australian conditions suit Bumrah?

    Last time the thing that suited him was having no Warner or Smith, while Labuschagne was still a rookie.

    But the actual conditions aren't great for Bumrah.

    Especially now that there is community Covid transmission in Adelaide - meaning that the Day/Night Test is going to end up cancelled and replaced with an extra Sydney Test.

    At this stage I'm anticipating the following itinerary


    1st Test - Sydney (Day/Night)
    2nd Test - MCG (Day)
    3rd Test - Sydney (Day)
    4th Test - Sydney (Day)

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    In what way do Australian conditions suit Bumrah?

    Last time the thing that suited him was having no Warner or Smith, while Labuschagne was still a rookie.

    But the actual conditions aren't great for Bumrah.

    Especially now that there is community Covid transmission in Adelaide - meaning that the Day/Night Test is going to end up cancelled and replaced with an extra Sydney Test.

    At this stage I'm anticipating the following itinerary


    1st Test - Sydney (Day/Night)
    2nd Test - MCG (Day)
    3rd Test - Sydney (Day)
    4th Test - Sydney (Day)
    Bouncy pitches suit him the best. Him, Shami both are hit the deck hard bowlers. They aren't swing specialists.

    Really? We playing in Sydney 3 times now? That's spin friendly. Maybe go with Ashwin and jaddu I reckon.

    India needs to pick a balanced squad.
    Last edited by The Viper; 16th November 2020 at 06:00.

  74. #74
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    Its a mind game tactic and I think Indian bowlers are experienced enough to not fall in this trap.
    Last time what got them success was fuller lengths. Even in Melbourne, on a dead track Indians were an Inch fuller then there counterparts.
    Looking forward to see a good contest.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    In what way do Australian conditions suit Bumrah?

    Last time the thing that suited him was having no Warner or Smith, while Labuschagne was still a rookie.

    But the actual conditions aren't great for Bumrah.

    Especially now that there is community Covid transmission in Adelaide - meaning that the Day/Night Test is going to end up cancelled and replaced with an extra Sydney Test.

    At this stage I'm anticipating the following itinerary


    1st Test - Sydney (Day/Night)
    2nd Test - MCG (Day)
    3rd Test - Sydney (Day)
    4th Test - Sydney (Day)
    The tour will go ahead as Scheduled and its locked in.
    CA is not going to change its logistics. I don't think there will be any change, except for may be crowds will be more limited and restricted in Adelaide. Its a known cluster.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoshiarpurexpress View Post
    The tour will go ahead as Scheduled and its locked in.
    CA is not going to change its logistics. I don't think there will be any change, except for may be crowds will be more limited and restricted in Adelaide. Its a known cluster.
    Northern Territory and Queensland just closed their borders to Adelaide, within the last hour.

    Currently India is due to play in Adelaide from 17-21 December and Melbourne from 26-30 December.

    But after the sacrifices that Melbourne residents made to achieve the world's greatest Covid elimination, there is no way they are going to let either team into Melbourne from Adelaide. Not going to happen!

    People outside Australia and NZ don't seem to realise that our Covid success story is based upon border closures. When Dan Andrews closes the border, he closes the border.
    Last edited by Junaids; 16th November 2020 at 09:10.

  77. #77
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    Nothing is moving from Adelaide. All Shield matches are still being held there for example (not just SA's games, all the matches).

    Let's get this in perspective- Adelaide has not had a single day with more than 5 cases reported for 8 months. In the last 2 weeks they have had more days of 0 or 1 reported cases than any other number. Succesful isolation and full contact tracing is very achievable at those low numbers.

    I think the SA govt will take a "wait & see" approach to crowd management for the next week or two before making any decisions. Assess as much data as possible & see if current strategies work first.

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    As for Smith vs the short ball...

    Wagner is a unique proposition. For years people underestimated him but he just keeps succeeding with that same line of attack.

    Archer rattled Smith with some genuine speed. That's for sure. But Smith still found ways to score runs.

    It is definitely a ploy which India should use. If Bumrah can upset Smith with it, I'll be impressed. Wagner has incredible endurance + accuracy to just pester & pester with (very physically demanding) short balls for over after over.

    Archer has pure top line speed when he is hot.

    Does Bumrah quite have either? We'll wait & see. I do like watching him bowl.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post

    At this stage I'm anticipating the following itinerary


    1st Test - Sydney (Day/Night)
    2nd Test - MCG (Day)
    3rd Test - Sydney (Day)
    4th Test - Sydney (Day)

    I won't mind this to be honest.

    Three games in Sydney.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrongun View Post
    As for Smith vs the short ball...

    Wagner is a unique proposition. For years people underestimated him but he just keeps succeeding with that same line of attack.

    Archer rattled Smith with some genuine speed. That's for sure. But Smith still found ways to score runs.

    It is definitely a ploy which India should use. If Bumrah can upset Smith with it, I'll be impressed. Wagner has incredible endurance + accuracy to just pester & pester with (very physically demanding) short balls for over after over.

    Archer has pure top line speed when he is hot.

    Does Bumrah quite have either? We'll wait & see. I do like watching him bowl.
    Bumrah bowled the fastest ball last time India toured. He averaged 143 plus in that series. He is more than capable of turning up the heat.

    Wagner is lucky he just plays one format. His endurance is vastly overrated. When you play all 3 formats, he will struggle to replicate the same accuracy for long periods as the physical workload takes a toll on the body.

    It's also easier to bowl bouncers with accuracy at Wagner's trundling speed.


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