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  1. #1
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    France's Macron issues 'republican values' ultimatum to Muslim leaders

    French President Emmanuel Macron has asked Muslim leaders to agree a "charter of republican values" as part of a broad clampdown on radical Islam.

    On Wednesday he gave the French Council of the Muslim Faith (CFCM) 15 days to work with the interior ministry.

    The CFCM has agreed to create a National Council of Imams, which will reportedly issue imams with official accreditation which could be withdrawn.

    It follows three suspected Islamist attacks in little more than a month.

    The charter will state that Islam is a religion and not a political movement, while also prohibiting "foreign interference" in Muslim groups.

    Mr Macron has strongly defended French secularism in the wake of the attacks, which included the beheading of a teacher who showed cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad during a class discussion last month.

    Late on Wednesday, the president and his interior minister, Gérald Darmanin, met eight CFCM leaders at the Élysée palace.

    "Two principles will be inscribed in black and white [in the charter]: the rejection of political Islam and any foreign interference," one source told the Le Parisien newspaper after the meeting.

    The formation of the National Council of Imams was also agreed upon.

    President Macron has also announced new measures to tackle what he called "Islamist separatism" in France.

    The measures include a wide-ranging bill that seeks to prevent radicalisation. It was unveiled on Wednesday, and includes measures such as:

    Restrictions on home-schooling and harsher punishments for those who intimidate public officials on religious grounds

    Giving children an identification number under the law that would be used to ensure they are attending school. Parents who break the law could face up to six months in jail as well as large fines

    A ban on sharing the personal information of a person in a way that allows them to be located by people who want to harm them

    "We must save our children from the clutches of the Islamists," Mr Darmanin told the Le Figaro newspaper on Wednesday. The draft law will be discussed by the French cabinet on 9 December.

    Samuel Paty, the teacher who was killed outside his school last month, was targeted by an online hate campaign before his death on 16 October.

    Le Monde newspaper has published emails sent between Paty and colleagues in the days after he showed the cartoons in class.

    "It's really distressing and particularly as it comes from a family whose child wasn't in my lesson and isn't someone I know," Paty wrote. "It's becoming a malicious rumour."

    He later wrote in a separate email: "I won't do any more teaching on this topic - I'll choose another freedom as a subject for teaching."

    Earlier this year, President Macron described Islam as a religion "in crisis" and defended the right of magazines to publish cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad. Such depictions are widely regarded as taboo in Islam and are considered highly offensive by many Muslims.

    Following these comments, the French leader became a figure of hate in several Muslim-majority countries. Protesters have also called for a boycott of French products.

    In France, state secularism (laïcité) is central to the country's national identity. Freedom of expression in schools and other public spaces is part of that, and curbing it to protect the feelings of a particular religion is seen as undermining national unity.

    France has western Europe's largest Muslim population.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55001167


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  2. #2
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    This midget is annoying af

  3. #3
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    Well done Macron.

  4. #4
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    This is how you solve problems which need to be nipped in the bud. There is no reason for a child to not go to school
    Now what is there to oppose. If it’s hard to do, please find a place which allows you to do that

    Restrictions on home-schooling and harsher punishments for those who intimidate public officials on religious grounds

    Giving children an identification number under the law that would be used to ensure they are attending school. Parents who break the law could face up to six months in jail as well as large fines

    A ban on sharing the personal information of a person in a way that allows them to be located by people who want to harm them

  5. #5
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    Sounds like a treacherous enforcement of racist laws.
    If this is made a thing, then at least muslim girls should be allowed to wear hijab at school.

  6. #6
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    Citizens should be educated.

    No foreign interference in the country's religious affairs.

    These two are the basic things that should be followed.

    Then comes the question of using religion as a means of political secession.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Citizens should be educated.

    No foreign interference in the country's religious affairs.

    These two are the basic things that should be followed.

    Then comes the question of using religion as a means of political secession.
    You're sounding like your advocating chinas policy with its "re education camps"

  8. #8
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    It's a missed opportunity. I like everything he wants to enforce. However, he should have said religion should be respected. If the people practising the religion are offended by an action then it's better to avoid the action like those cartoons.

    Can't agree more on the kids education and the policy on Imams. Foreign interference in religious matters shouldn't be encouraged. They have to do what US did in the mosques after 9/11. Most of the radical speeches have vanished as every Imam knows an fbi agent is in the shadows in the same mosque and can lock him up any time. That element of fear is needed before spewing hatred and rubbish to gullible idiots.

    Every person has a right to practise their religion as long as it's peaceful.

  9. #9
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    Macron's inexperience in politics is in full display.

    Disappointing.



  10. #10
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    Home-schooling is on the rise globally and here comes Macron with another big brain moment.



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    He is spot on. The world must realize the brainwashing that goes on in religious schools. It is a must to regulate such institutes. I wish Pakistan could regulate what is preached in mosques.


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    He is spot on. The world must realize the brainwashing that goes on in religious schools. It is a must to regulate such institutes. I wish Pakistan could regulate what is preached in mosques.
    Huge fan of Fascism eh? For all your talk of protecting minorities, you'd be making Ahmedi's wear yellow stars given half a chance.

  13. #13
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    If France can get away with this in 2020, imagine what they were doing during the colonization era. This is the real face of France.

    They will never tell the synagogues to cut their links to Israel nor the Catholic churches to the Vatican. Right wing politicians can still invoke the "Judeo Christian tradition" to get votes.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim_khan View Post
    Huge fan of Fascism eh? For all your talk of protecting minorities, you'd be making Ahmedi's wear yellow stars given half a chance.
    What is wrong in regulating what goes on inside mosques? Many Muslim countries including Malaysia have been doing this for a long time. This prevents extremism.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    What is wrong in regulating what goes on inside mosques? Many Muslim countries including Malaysia have been doing this for a long time. This prevents extremism.
    All religions should be monitored. Anyone who preaches hate must be warned first and put in prison later.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    What is wrong in regulating what goes on inside mosques? Many Muslim countries including Malaysia have been doing this for a long time. This prevents extremism.
    I agree with the regulation part. But there has to be a good system in place for that. France isnt doing well in developing a good system because it doesnt want to. However, in muslim nations it can and must be done. My suggestion is to have a system where mosques are interwoven with government registered Islamic schools and departments in universities. Credible, educated and aware Imams could be hired like that. Make the entire thing professional. It will yield huge benefits. But i dont think this can be easily done in western countries. However, it must be done in muslim nations.

  17. #17
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    So will France also cut off Catholic church from the Vatican and Israel from the French synagogues? Both are outside influences to French religious institutions.

  18. #18
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    Muslim children with ID numbers is nothing short of fascism.

    Hope the Imams tell Macron No.

    If it wasnt for Muslims, France never would have won two world cups in recent history. Those players should come out in support of French Muslims, they have enough to move anywhere they want.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker_Ind View Post
    All religions should be monitored. Anyone who preaches hate must be warned first and put in prison later.
    so when is your PM going to jail then and most of your parliament?

  20. #20
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    So all children will get id's to force them into secular education..mnnh, i wonder what people would say if say, Pakistan forced all children to get an id an attend religious schools..

    also france is so insecure about its secular republican values that it is enforcing them like fundamentalist religious nuts do across the world..I guess they really havent changed much in a 1000 years..

    Lets face it, france is a dying country and culture that relies on the blood of africans to keep it afloat..This is another sign of its desperation as it slowly decays into obscurity and irrelevance..
    Last edited by The Viper; 24th November 2020 at 05:55.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    Lets face it, france is a dying country and culture that relies on the blood of africans to keep it afloat..This is another sign of its desperation as it slowly decays into obscurity and irrelevance..
    Sounds like a loser's lament, probably backed up with another 'prophecy' to boot.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Sounds like a loser's lament, probably backed up with another 'prophecy' to boot.
    A developed country with one of the largest economies in the world is a “dying country” because it does not want to bend over backwards to accommodate Islamic terrorism.

    These are the same people who have been predicting the fall of Israel for the last 50 years because they are evil, the same Israel that continues to rise because of all the R&D and continues to forge better ties with the Arab world.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Sounds like a loser's lament, probably backed up with another 'prophecy' to boot.
    their economy is heavily reliant on the subjugation of the african continent. Their demographics clearly show a decline in their birth rate and at the same time their economy is taking quite a pasting due to covid. Yes they will probably survive just like everyone else, but they are a third rate power now and they will continue to lose the geopolitical game. they are fast losing their grip on the Med and this will continue.

    If they elect Le pen they will continue this downward trajectory.

  24. #24
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    Is Macron now going to count number of muslim children and keep tab on them?

  25. #25
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    Can these values be implemented on others apart from Muslims too? Unfortunately religious freedom doesn't mean freedom for Muslims. Don't forget that this is French govt saying this, not a little group in France or other NGO.

    Pathetic!

  26. #26
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    According to a few PPers

    US is declining
    France is decaying
    Israel is dying
    India is breaking

    All that is good is in China, Turkey and Pakistan.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    According to a few PPers

    US is declining
    France is decaying
    Israel is dying
    India is breaking

    All that is good is in China, Turkey and Pakistan.
    Who wrote Israel is dying? Please post the link. I think you are lying.

    India has become a Hindu extremist state, this is obvious to a blind man.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  28. #28
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    The head of France's main Muslim organisation on Thursday slammed a “unilateral” move by three Islamic groups not to sign up to an anti-extremism charter championed by President Emmanuel Macron.

    Macron wants French Muslim groups to sign up to the charter as he seeks to secure France's secular system in the wake of a spate of attacks blamed on radical Islamists in 2020.

    But the Committee for Coordination of Turkish Muslims in France (CCMTF) and the Milli Gorus Islamic Confederation (CMIG) — both catering to citizens of Turkish origin — as well as the Faith and Practice movement, announced late on Wednesday that they would not be signing up to the charter.

    “Through these repetitive actions, the groups ... all risk being held responsible for this situation of division,” said Mohamed Moussaoui, the president of the French Council of the Muslim Faith (CFCM), the umbrella grouping for France's Muslim groups.

    This refusal “is not likely to provide reassurance ... on the state of the representative bodies of the Muslim religion”, he added.

    A source close to the issue, who asked not to be named, said the three groups refusing to sign the charter were particularly concerned about the definition of foreign interference in religion and the definition of political Islam.

    The row comes at a time of severe diplomatic tensions between France and Turkey, whose President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has repeatedly lambasted Macron's bid to crack down on radical Muslims in the country.

    The Milli Gorus, a pan-European movement for the Turkish diaspora, is seen as inspired by the ideas of late prime minister Necmettin Erbakan, regarded as the father of political Islam in Turkey and Erdogan's mentor.

    “We believe that certain passages and formulations in the text submitted are likely to weaken the bonds of trust between the Muslims of France and the nation,” the three groups said in a statement.

    “Furthermore, some statements are prejudicial to the honour of Muslims, with an accusatory and marginalising tone.”

    'Important clarification'
    Five out of nine groups who make up the CFCM, a body set up almost 20 years ago to enable dialogue between the government and the Muslim community, have signed up to the charter after weeks of sometimes acrimonious debates.

    But the failure of the CFCM to so far show a totally united front risks robbing the initiative of the consensus within the Muslim community that it is supposed to highlight.

    A government source, however, insisted that the groups' refusal would not weaken the process, adding that “the masks are coming off”.

    “An important clarification is being made,” the source said.

    The charter rejects “instrumentalising” Islam for political ends and affirms equality between men and women, while denouncing practices such as female circumcisions, forced marriages or “virginity certificates” for brides. These practices, though prevalent in some Muslim communities, are more cultural than based on religion.

    Macron railed against the promotion of “political Islam” in France in November last year after a teacher was beheaded outside his school.

    He had shown pupils caricatures of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as part of a free-speech lesson.

    The attack prompted a crackdown against alleged extremist mosques and Islamist associations, along with a vigorous defence of French secularism.

    Dawn


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  29. #29
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  30. #30
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    France’s economy may improve but its culture has been in decline post WWII and its international prestige since WWI.

    Similar to England except that America carries the UK’s legacy forward somewhat.

    Both UK and France never recovered from the trauma, economic setback, and loss of manpower of WWI. WWII meant they had to become bankrupt and forcefully end their global empires.

    All in all, most of Europe is either grumbling all the time about their finances or lamenting their loss of prestige except Germany. The focus of power will shift to Asia now (China and India) along with the ME (Israel).

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Nations make mistakes
    great nations acknowledge their mistakes...

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker_Ind View Post
    All religions should be monitored. Anyone who preaches hate must be warned first and put in prison later.
    Like Yogi Aditiyanath?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Who wrote Israel is dying? Please post the link.
    I don't think anybody did here but a Jewish Rabbi did say something along these lines.


  34. #34
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    Very disappointing. Despite all of the hyperbolic criticism that the US and UK suffer for apparently moving towards fascism and totalitarianism (usually from the left wing in their own countries), here we have an example of policy, thinking, and curbing of civil liberties from France that is actually fascist and totalitarian. Will it get the airtime and scrutiny in the US and UK that it fully deserves? No.

  35. #35
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    French colonialism worked very different from British colonalism, not that one is better than the other but French colonalism aimed at erasing native cultures and Francaizing them as they believe their French culture and ways were superior to those they colonized while the British didn't care too much about imposing their culture and instead focused more extracting (stealing) resources and profiting off indentured labor, the French did too but they all spent a lot of time trying to destroy cultures and impose the French way of life and that's how they're different from the British. This mentality still exists and you see this in France and Quebec and even in Belgium.

  36. #36
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    A lot of what they want seems quite vague. How do you quantify whether a religion is a political movement or not? In the US a lot of politicians rely on support from evangelical churches and organization. Can we say they are politicizing Christianity? How do they define “foreign interference”?

    And I think children who are being gone schooled should meet a certain standard, that part I do agree with if it’s done standard across the board to everyone.


    What happened to all the talk of civil liberties and freedoms?


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    French colonialism worked very different from British colonalism, not that one is better than the other but French colonalism aimed at erasing native cultures and Francaizing them as they believe their French culture and ways were superior to those they colonized while the British didn't care too much about imposing their culture and instead focused more extracting (stealing) resources and profiting off indentured labor, the French did too but they all spent a lot of time trying to destroy cultures and impose the French way of life and that's how they're different from the British. This mentality still exists and you see this in France and Quebec and even in Belgium.

    Belgian colonialism was even more brutal than the french.


    Better luck next time

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    A lot of what they want seems quite vague. How do you quantify whether a religion is a political movement or not? In the US a lot of politicians rely on support from evangelical churches and organization. Can we say they are politicizing Christianity? How do they define “foreign interference”?

    And I think children who are being gone schooled should meet a certain standard, that part I do agree with if it’s done standard across the board to everyone.


    What happened to all the talk of civil liberties and freedoms?
    Yes they are politicising Christianity and it’s having a devastating effect.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by miandadrules View Post
    Belgian colonialism was even more brutal than the french.
    Belgium has French influence plus they only had one colony vs France's worldwide empire


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