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  1. #1
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    3 households allowed to get together for Christmas in UK - but no such allowances during Eid?

    Three households will be able to meet together over Christmas under plans being discussed by all four nations of the UK, according to a government source.

    Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove will this afternoon chair a meeting with the first ministers of the devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland from 4pm.

    ==

    Muslims were told to stay indoors, away from each other during Eid but no such issues when it comes to Christmas.


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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Three households will be able to meet together over Christmas under plans being discussed by all four nations of the UK, according to a government source.

    Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove will this afternoon chair a meeting with the first ministers of the devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland from 4pm.

    ==

    Muslims were told to stay indoors, away from each other during Eid but no such issues when it comes to Christmas.
    Makes sense to be honest. Christmas is a HUGE deal for majority of the population. Its a shame we couldnt celeberate eid but im glad those that celebrate Christmas will get to celebrate it with their loved ones.

  3. #3
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    It wasnít just Eid - the same was true for Vaisakhi, Diwali, Yom Kippur etc.

    Of course Xmas will be treated differently given that the UKís official religion is Christianity and our head of state is also head of the Church of England etc. Also, the proportion of the population identifying themselves as Christians is at least 5 times bigger than the next biggest group (Muslims).
    Last edited by Gabbar Singh; 24th November 2020 at 22:32.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh View Post
    It wasn’t just Eid - the same was true for Vaisakhi, Diwali, Yom Kippur etc.

    Of course Xmas will be treated differently given that the UK’s official religion is Christianity and our head of state is also head of the Church of England etc. Also, the proportion of the population identifying themselves as Christians is at least 5 times bigger than the next biggest group (Muslims).
    Agreed.

    Its not about how important Xmas is - it should be about safety of the population. Think about it.


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  5. #5
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    COVID-19: Three-household bubbles and travel restrictions lifted under Christmas rules

    Households across the UK will be able to form a "Christmas bubble" with two other households during a five-day window over the festive period, it has been announced.

    Between 23 to 27 December, people will be able to meet with those other households in their bubble - but only in a private home, a place of worship or outdoors.

    A bubble won't be allowed to meet in pubs, restaurants or bars.

    Travel restrictions across the whole of the UK will also be lifted during the five-day period, allowing people to travel across countries or between local coronavirus tiers in order to meet with those in their bubble.

    Once a bubble is formed, it cannot be changed, according to the Christmas COVID rules.

    The plan was finalised at a meeting of the government's emergency COBRA committee on Tuesday afternoon, which was attended by the first ministers of the devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove, who chaired the meeting, said: "For five days, from 23 to 27 December, people will be allowed to have a Christmas bubble.

    "That means that three households can get together so families can enjoy something closer to a normal Christmas.

    "We all know that Christmas this year won't be as it has been in years' past, but all the governments agreed we should balance the need to protect public health with also allowing people to be with their loved ones."

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon stressed that "just because this can be done, it is not the case that people feel they should do it, if they don't have to".

    "We're asking people to keep well within these limits, because there is a risk to households coming together," she added.

    "And, therefore, if you can feel you can get through this Christmas without seeing other people - or if you can see people for one day and not across five days - then try to limit your interaction."

    Ms Sturgeon also said it was "very clear" that a three-household bubble was "fixed" for the five-day period.

    "You can't see two households one day, and another two households the next day," she added.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...ource-12141187

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh View Post
    It wasnít just Eid - the same was true for Vaisakhi, Diwali, Yom Kippur etc.

    Of course Xmas will be treated differently given that the UKís official religion is Christianity and our head of state is also head of the Church of England etc. Also, the proportion of the population identifying themselves as Christians is at least 5 times bigger than the next biggest group (Muslims).
    Majority Native. Thats the thing and it will not change.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Majority Native. Thats the thing and it will not change.
    Covids gonna be a bigger issue at xmas with where the majority are getting together than at eid when the minority were

    This shouldnt be allowed no matter how big a thing xmas is

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Covids gonna be a bigger issue at xmas with where the majority are getting together than at eid when the minority were

    This shouldnt be allowed no matter how big a thing xmas is
    Shouldn't be allowed. But its the biggest festival of the majority natives. The majority which actually elects the next govt.

  9. #9
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    Expect a 3rd wave of infections in the new year.



  10. #10
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    Me wife's English and she can't wait for Xmas, going over to her mum and dad's, there was no way Boris could cancel Christmas as a massive Tory revolt and a public bashing, even though I don't agree with the way Eid was handled by the government.

  11. #11
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    This whole victim mentality is disgusting.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Agreed.

    Its not about how important Xmas is - it should be about safety of the population. Think about it.
    Yes but UK Covid cases, hospitalisations, deaths etc are already dropping and thereís still 4 weeks until December 23rd.

    https://data.spectator.co.uk/city/national

    Thereís no way the government could have kept full lockdown restrictions in place over Xmas and expected the wider population to comply.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    This whole victim mentality is disgusting.
    This selective lockdown is disgusting There shouldnt be one rule for "them" and another for "us"

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    Before the usual victim mentality rears its ugly head (seems like it's too late), think about it. The majority of Brits celebrate Christmas, and if the government outright banned it, no one would comply and it would be chaos. Allowing it with limitations will appease the population at least somewhat, and will lead to more compliance with the guidelines, although I'm sure many won't follow. Ideally, it would be a locked-down Christmas, but it wasn't feasible or enforceable.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubs View Post
    Before the usual victim mentality rears its ugly head (seems like it's too late), think about it. The majority of Brits celebrate Christmas, and if the government outright banned it, no one would comply and it would be chaos. Allowing it with limitations will appease the population at least somewhat, and will lead to more compliance with the guidelines, although I'm sure many won't follow. Ideally, it would be a locked-down Christmas, but it wasn't feasible or enforceable.
    So in your opinion rules should be bent to appease the religious sensibilities of Christians, else they will flout the rules and cause chaos. Interesting

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    So in your opinion rules should be bent to appease the religious sensibilities of Christians, else they will flout the rules and cause chaos. Interesting
    Not Christians, the vast majority aren't even practicing, or even religious. It's the general population. Let's suppose that 60 million people want to celebrate Christmas, if just 20% of those people refuse to abide by guidelines, it'll be a mess. I would say the same for Eid in Pakistan, Diwali in India, etc. If you have seen my posts before, you know that I have no love for any religion.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubs View Post
    Not Christians, the vast majority aren't even practicing, or even religious. It's the general population. Let's suppose that 60 million people want to celebrate Christmas, if just 20% of those people refuse to abide by guidelines, it'll be a mess. I would say the same for Eid in Pakistan, Diwali in India, etc. If you have seen my posts before, you know that I have no love for any religion.
    Yeah that's fair in that case.

  18. #18
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    The main reason is the politicians want to enjoy Xmas while also keeping the sheep minded public happy for a few days. You may see a lockdown again in January.

    Xmas is a cultural event which is celeberated by almost all people in the UK regardless of faith.

    Even militant atheists like Dawkins who rants about God daily, calling followers of religion stupid, is up for a Merry time with his Xmas hat , wishing everyone Merry CHIRSTmas.

    Im happy for this, many will see their elderly parents after months.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubs View Post
    Not Christians, the vast majority aren't even practicing, or even religious. It's the general population. Let's suppose that 60 million people want to celebrate Christmas, if just 20% of those people refuse to abide by guidelines, it'll be a mess. I would say the same for Eid in Pakistan, Diwali in India, etc. If you have seen my posts before, you know that I have no love for any religion.
    As a self proclaimed athiest who spends a lot of time criticising religion, do you take part in Xmas?


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    As a self proclaimed athiest who spends a lot of time criticising religion, do you take part in Xmas?
    Not really, no. My ex-girlfriend and I (who was also atheist) used to do presents and stuff, she liked the cultural aspect (as she was English), so we partook in that a bit too. However, you do realise it's not inconsistent at all to celebrate Christmas and be an atheist, right? It's seen as a cultural tradition, that was initially Western, but is celebrated quite a lot globally. This is a very weak 'gotcha' question.


  21. #21
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    Scientists have warned that Boris Johnson's plans to ease coronavirus restrictions over Christmas risk "throwing fuel on the COVID fire".

    For five days between 23 and 27 December, people across the UK will be able to mix within a Christmas bubble of up to three households - but only in a private home, a place of worship or outdoor public spaces.

    Restrictions will remain for pubs, restaurants and the wider hospitality sector, which described the rules as likely to "inflict unnecessary pain and irreversible damage".

    Track the economy's progress through COVID crisis

    Scientists and doctors were also unhappy with the Christmas plans, with British Medical Association UK council chair Dr Chaand Nagpaul saying: "This virus does not discriminate against certain days of the year.

    "Relaxing the rules on indoor mixing for a five-day period will almost certainly carry the risk of a rise in infection rate and possibly more hospitalisation and deaths, adding further pressure on the health service, doctors and NHS staff."

    Dr Nagpaul said it is "absolutely vital" people take safety precautions if mixing with other households, such as ventilating rooms and limiting physical contact when masks are not worn.

    Professor Andrew Hayward, a member of the government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE), told the BBC that the easing of restrictions over Christmas was "throwing fuel on the COVID fire".

    More from Covid-19COVID-19: Gavin Williamson acted unlawfully in relaxing care safeguards for children, court rulesWest Yorkshire hair salon owner fined £27,000 after breaking lockdown rulesCOVID-19: Is the pandemic costing us our mental health?COVID-19: Three-household bubbles and travel restrictions lifted under Christmas rulesCOVID-19: Torturous political choices ahead as pandemic damage to economy to be revealedCOVID-19: Three-household bubble and travel rules eased under Christmas plan being discussed

    "We are still in a country where we have got high levels of infection with COVID, particularly in young people. Bringing them together for hours, let alone days, with elderly relatives, I think, is a recipe for regret for many families.

    "With the vaccine on the way, if we are not very careful over Christmas we are really in danger of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory on this one."

    The chief executive of the British Beer and Pub Association said the Christmas plans "make a mockery of the extra restrictions being placed on pubs and the economic devastation they are facing this Christmas".

    Emma McClarkin asked: "How can it be that pubs cannot properly open while households can mix in private settings?

    "It seems the government has chosen to inflict unnecessary pain and irreversible damage on our sector without publishing evidence alongside these decisions."

    Kate Nicholls, chief executive of UKHospitality, added: "For the government to exclude these businesses in these new rules demonstrates muddled thinking and will cause the sector yet more harm coming so soon after the announcement of the new tier restrictions."

    And Michael Kill, chief executive of the Night Time Industries Association, said the government had "ripped the vague remnants of Christmas spirit from the hands of many businesses within the sector".

    He warned: "The government has simply got this wrong. It is an appalling misjudgement, at such an important time of year for everyone."

    Government figures showed a further 608 people had died within 28 days of testing positive for COVID-19 as of Tuesday, bringing the UK total to 55,838.

    A further 11,299 lab-confirmed cases of coronavirus were also reported, the lowest figure since early October.

    Meanwhile, the prime minister could face a backlash from some of his own MPs over planned measures from 2 December, when England's current lockdown ends.

    Many MPs are reportedly worried that most of the country will be under Tier 2 and Tier 3 restrictions, ahead of official confirmation on Thursday.

    A government source has told Sky News: "I would not be surprised if no areas [in England] ended up in Tier 1."

    According to the Daily Mail, 1922 Committee chairman Sir Graham Brady is among those who are unhappy - with the newspaper reporting that he is "inclined" to oppose the measures in a vote next week, as he is concerned the economic damage might leave a "legacy we could be living with for years to come".

    https://news.sky.com/story/muddled-t...-fire-12141693


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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    Makes sense to be honest. Christmas is a HUGE deal for majority of the population. Its a shame we couldnt celeberate eid but im glad those that celebrate Christmas will get to celebrate it with their loved ones.
    I don't think it does make sense to be honest, unless you seriously think Covid is going to take a break for Christmas. Not from a medical standpoint anyway. That said, I am glad from a personal view as I will get to see family members who live away now that I haven't seen in a year.


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  23. #23
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    For the love of God - Cancel Christmas this year in the UK!

    Look at the rise infection rates etc - this is madness.


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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    For the love of God - Cancel Christmas this year in the UK!

    Look at the rise infection rates etc - this is madness.
    Whilst I agree with you that from a purely Covid perspective, this easing of restrictions is madness, there are good reasons for it.

    1. People have been observing some form of social distancing for the last 9 months. Christmas is a MASSIVE deal in this country and if you keep people away from their loved ones after all the hardship this year, you'll create a mental health crisis in place of a Covid one.

    2. Because of the importance of Christmas, and given how long people have already been observing rules, they generally aren't going to listen if you stop them getting together. It's better you set out the rules to limit the number of days of social gathering, rather than ban it all together meaning people do whatever the heck they please.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman View Post
    Whilst I agree with you that from a purely Covid perspective, this easing of restrictions is madness, there are good reasons for it.

    1. People have been observing some form of social distancing for the last 9 months. Christmas is a MASSIVE deal in this country and if you keep people away from their loved ones after all the hardship this year, you'll create a mental health crisis in place of a Covid one.

    2. Because of the importance of Christmas, and given how long people have already been observing rules, they generally aren't going to listen if you stop them getting together. It's better you set out the rules to limit the number of days of social gathering, rather than ban it all together meaning people do whatever the heck they please.
    This post is entirely correct.

  26. #26
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    We always hear about so-called following of the science. But in this unique circumstance, perhaps it actually should be politicians (as the people who are trying to stay a bit more in touch with the public mood....well, certainly moreso than the science boffins) who make the decisions on Christmas.

    Johnson, Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster all agreed that this was the best move on a holistic level for a country that has endured a downright dreadful year on almost every level.

    The likes of Chris Whitty, Patrick Vallance and the other dullard SAGE scientists don't strike me as particularly fun-loving people. They would have had a total shut-in lockdown all year if they could.

    Looking forward to the five days of measured civil freedoms being restored at Christmas. I think most people are already fully expecting another lockdown in January anyway.

  27. #27
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    Also add the economy to the list of reasons. This xmas will be more depressing than any I can remember. Families destroyed by job losses will find this xmas to be a temporary relief.

  28. #28
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    The media are loving this. First they beg for a Xmas opening then they whine and moan about the government risking peopleís lives by opening up. Then the same idiots (like Kay Burley, Piers Morgan etc) get caught breaking lockdown rules themselves.

  29. #29
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    Public must think carefully about Christmas risk, NHS bosses warn

    People must think "really carefully" about the risk of more social contact over Christmas, NHS bosses have warned.

    "I don't want to be the Grinch who stole Christmas," said Chris Hopson, the head of NHS Providers.

    But he pointed out that the US saw "record numbers" of cases and deaths after the Thanksgiving holiday - and said the NHS was worried about January.

    The government's Dominic Raab said people needed the five-day relaxation of Covid rules on "an emotional level".

    Meanwhile, the chances of the Oxford University vaccine being rolled out by the end of the year are "pretty high", the vaccine's architect Prof Sarah Gilbert has told the BBC.

    Between 23 and 27 December, coronavirus restrictions are being relaxed across the UK, allowing three households to form a "bubble" and mix indoors and stay overnight.

    But NHS Providers - which represents hospital trusts in England - has written to the PM urging him to "personally lead a better public debate about the risks inherent in the guidance" - although it stopped short of calling for a review of the rules over Christmas.

    "There seems to be a sense at the moment that, 'hey because the government's put these rules down, there's no risk to people having more social contact over Christmas'," Mr Hopson told BBC Breakfast.

    "Of course, part of it is about sticking to the rules but any kind of extra social contact over Christmas - particularly with those who are vulnerable to the virus - actually is very risky."

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55288374


    Arsenal all the way!! (and Pakistan, of course!)

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh View Post
    The media are loving this. First they beg for a Xmas opening then they whine and moan about the government risking peopleís lives by opening up. Then the same idiots (like Kay Burley, Piers Morgan etc) get caught breaking lockdown rules themselves.
    The Burley and Rigby thing is genuinely tragicomic. It has delivered the final nail in the coffin to a historically awful year of embarrassingly bad and completely unhelpful contrarian journalism. Now that they have been explicitly caught out conducting themselves like the utter hypocrites that they are, perhaps Sky and ITV employees will behave slightly more humbly in future.

  31. #31
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    Apart from the huge spike in covid infections we will see in the New Year, the booze shops and supermarkets will be rubbing their hands with glee.

    There is going to be a massive blow out this Christmas with people preparing to get absolutely leathered. A lot more than is usually the case.


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  32. #32
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    Boris Johnson is resisting demands to "cancel Christmas", claiming it is too late to change plans to allow families to meet up during a five-day relaxation of COVID rules.

    He will face MPs in the Commons and later address Tory backbenchers and declare his opposition to dropping plans for three households to meet up from 23 to 27 December.


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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    I don't think it does make sense to be honest, unless you seriously think Covid is going to take a break for Christmas. Not from a medical standpoint anyway. That said, I am glad from a personal view as I will get to see family members who live away now that I haven't seen in a year.
    Covid hasn't taken a break despite us living in harsh lockdown conditions for 10 months of the year. Enforcing something that already plainly hasn't done the trick for whatever reason over the festive period would be unnecessarily cruel.

  34. #34
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    Do lockdowns actually work? Open question and not supposed to be rhetorical. We seem to be in and out of different lockdowns constantly, and yet still Covid marches on. Not sure if we might need a different strategy next year whilst people gradually get vaccinated.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Do lockdowns actually work? Open question and not supposed to be rhetorical. We seem to be in and out of different lockdowns constantly, and yet still Covid marches on. Not sure if we might need a different strategy next year whilst people gradually get vaccinated.
    I suppose it's just to make sure the NHS is not over burdened...
    But then not sure what the Nightingale Hospitals were for.

  36. #36
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    Yep all sorts of little tips for people doing Christmas without worrying about transmission!

    ===

    PM tells people: 'Have yourselves a merry little Christmas'

    Boris Johnson has just given an interview to broadcasters on a visit to Bolton.

    He says that coronavirus infection rates have "increased very much in the last few weeks" so people should think of the Christmas rules relaxation as "very much a maximum, not a target people should aim for".

    "Keep it short, keep it small, have yourselves a merry little Christmas.

    "That is the way through this year and next year as we roll out the vaccine."

    Mr Johnson adds it is a time to "think about our elderly relatives" and "avoid spreading the disease", admitting this year's celebrations will be "very, very different indeed".


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  37. #37
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    Christmas restrictions 'should always have been contingent on the level of infection'

    Independent SAGE member Dr Kit Yates argued for the tiered system of restrictions to work it had to be alongside other public health measures, included test, trace and isolate.

    On Christmas he said: "Personally, I think Christmas restrictions should always have been contingent on the level of infection.

    "The Government's Christmas plans have somehow given a green light to people to meet up with each other irrespective of the number of cases.

    "They were made back in November when cases were falling and things were looking good, we wee in the middle of a lockdown.

    "But obviously things have changed since then, cases are rising dramatically.

    "The situation is very different now and we should be agile and be able to change what the plans are.

    "Potentially meeting up and mixing at Christmas is going to cause a really big spike in the new year."


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  38. #38
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  39. #39
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    No clarity in any of his decisions he makes , obviously the virus wasn't going no where so why give Every One a false sense of hope.

    My Mrs is English and they were planning 2-3 Day celebrations with their family far and near, guted is a understatement!

    She's only been able to see her parents once in the last 6 months as her mum is in the vulnerable category, Johnson clearly isn't fit to lead office , the sooner this clown is replaced the better

  40. #40
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    Nov 2007
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    Wonder what proportion of people will even follow the Xmas rules now?

    If you maintain proper hygiene, donít kiss/hug others, maintain proper ventilation etc then how is spending 2 or 3 days with a group of people in a house significantly more dangerous than just spending 1 day with them at Xmas?

    I used to get really annoyed with people breaking covid rules but now I donít care. I try my best to follow them all however if others choose to do otherwise thatís their choice (unless of course they are politicians, media folks, those taking the moral high ground etc in which case such rule breakers deserve to be criticised).


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