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  1. #1
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    Best pace bowler since 1st Jan2016 against top 4 ODI teams

    Since 1 Jan 2016

    Against Top 4 sides



    M Starc

    Inns 24

    Wkts 38

    Avg 35.68

    Econ 5.99



    Bumrah

    Inns 31

    Wkts 39

    Avg 39.23

    Econ 5.33



    Boult

    Inns 31

    Wkts 59

    Avg 25.8

    Econ 5.26



    Rabbada

    Inns 30

    Wkts 53

    Avg 26.66

    Econ 5.25



    Hazlewood

    Inns 21

    Wkts 42

    Avg 23.73

    Econ 4.94



    Cummins

    Inns 33

    Wkts 51

    Avg 31.19

    Econ 5.32



    Amir

    Inns 24

    Wkts 33

    Avg 32.45

    Econ 5.23
    Seems like useless Cummins better than mighty Bumrah. Hazlewood is seriously underrated probably the best against top 4 odi sides and Boult too is way better than Starc.

  2. #2
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    Top 4 ODI teams are Aus,Eng,Nz and India

  3. #3
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    A couple of years ago Josh Hazelwood was dropped from Australian ODI team because he was found wanting to match the balance in all formats. The situation was such that he was not even selected for World Cup team in 2019 and Behendroff and Coulter-Nile were preferred as third bowlers.

    But he has been brilliant since his return in the team in both the formats.
    Last edited by Ab Fan; 1st December 2020 at 01:31.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    A couple of years ago Josh Hazelwood was dropped from Australian ODI team because he was found wanting to match the balance in all formats. The situation was such that he was not even selected for World Cup team in 2019 and Behendroff and Coulter-Nile were preferred as third bowlers.

    But he has been brilliant since his return in the team in both the formats.
    Pretty sure he wasn;t selected for the world cup last year because he was recovering from an injury earlier in the year and Australia didn't want to risk him getting injured before The Ashes.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    Pretty sure he wasn;t selected for the world cup last year because he was recovering from an injury earlier in the year and Australia didn't want to risk him getting injured before The Ashes.
    Hazelwood averaged 35 in ODIs in 2018 and that was also the year in which his test performance dipped heavily as failures against South Africa early in the year and against India in the later part didn't helped the cause.

    The selectors basically overlooked him because of that form and just to make sure the pacers confidence doesn't get dented, they came up with this statement. But honestly, Starc and Cummins being played in World Cup and Hazelwood being rested clearly means that they probably weren't expecting much from him in that tournament based on his last one year of form.

  6. #6
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    Can we have Shaheen's stats please?

    The world might halt the day Australia stop producing great fast bowlers.

    It's just unfair...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Hazelwood averaged 35 in ODIs in 2018 and that was also the year in which his test performance dipped heavily as failures against South Africa early in the year and against India in the later part didn't helped the cause.

    The selectors basically overlooked him because of that form and just to make sure the pacers confidence doesn't get dented, they came up with this statement. But honestly, Starc and Cummins being played in World Cup and Hazelwood being rested clearly means that they probably weren't expecting much from him in that tournament based on his last one year of form.
    No the injury was basically the only reason. The Australian selectors would never pick Behrendorff over a fit Hazlewood. Coulter Nile gets selected because he can bat.

  8. #8
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    Josh Hazelwood has some amazing stats. He gets overlooked a bit due to how good Starc has been in ODI's (although Starc has been rubbish recently). Hazelwood is the most consistent of the big three pacers for Australia.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Can we have Shaheen's stats please?

    The world might halt the day Australia stop producing great fast bowlers.

    It's just unfair...
    Shaheen debuted in 2018 but since then he's ammased 45 wickets at an average of 21.64. His SR too is 24.xx which implies that every 4th over (regardless of opposition) he somehow manages to take a wicket.

    All this with an economy of 5.29 certainly makes him a Top 2 contender, at least, if not the best fast bowler since 2018.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Can we have Shaheen's stats please?

    The world might halt the day Australia stop producing great fast bowlers.

    It's just unfair...
    Small Sample size but against the Top 4 ranked teams:

    10 Games

    19 Wickets

    Average 25.63

    Economy 6.33

    It has to be considered that the games he played versus England were on those flat pitches just before the WC.He has only played one game versus Australia and India, so you can't conclude much based on that. Exceptional average of 10.83 vs NZ boosts his average. Once he plays more against the better teams, I think he can become among the best in the world.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Hazelwood averaged 35 in ODIs in 2018 and that was also the year in which his test performance dipped heavily as failures against South Africa early in the year and against India in the later part didn't helped the cause.

    The selectors basically overlooked him because of that form and just to make sure the pacers confidence doesn't get dented, they came up with this statement. But honestly, Starc and Cummins being played in World Cup and Hazelwood being rested clearly means that they probably weren't expecting much from him in that tournament based on his last one year of form.
    Pretty sure he was not picked for WC as selectors didn't want to dent his recovery in time of Ashes where they were seeing him a bigger commodity.
    Behrendorff is a pretty good pacer as well though.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Viper View Post
    Josh Hazelwood has some amazing stats. He gets overlooked a bit due to how good Starc has been in ODI's (although Starc has been rubbish recently). Hazelwood is the most consistent of the big three pacers for Australia.
    Starc's been looking incredibly rusty in the current series.
    But they have Pattinson among their ranks so his form shouldn't worry Aus for the upcoming Test series.

  13. #13
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    What are the stats for Shami and Rabada in ODIs?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyRabbit View Post
    Pretty sure he was not picked for WC as selectors didn't want to dent his recovery in time of Ashes where they were seeing him a bigger commodity.
    Behrendorff is a pretty good pacer as well though.
    Yeah. They felt he will be a bigger commodity for Ashes than WC as they rated faster bowlers like Starc and Cummins higher for ODIs on the basis of their form at that time .

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    What are the stats for Shami and Rabada in ODIs?
    Not sure about Shami but Rabada's stats are in the OP

  16. #16
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    LOL at that ugly action bumroo the goat.Kagiso rabada is the best in both the formats.Pat Cummins is alright as well an Trent Boult is very underrated.These stats completely exposed that bumroo guy.not good enough.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by choudhary6964 View Post
    LOL at that ugly action bumroo the goat.Kagiso rabada is the best in both the formats.Pat Cummins is alright as well an Trent Boult is very underrated.These stats completely exposed that bumroo guy.not good enough.
    Wait what amir has done better than minnow basher bumrah .

  18. #18
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    Hazlewood under-rated in the ODI format it seems (I think everyone respects his test skills).

    Thing about Starc is that he is either hot and can blow a top order apart with 2 or 3 spectacular yorker wickets which stay in the memory and highlights reels on the news... but when he's off he's quite poor. And it happens regularly.

    With Hazlewood you rarely get a bad game. He'll either be ok, or very good.

    No real suprises there- Rabada & Boult are excellent players. Rabada in both formats, Boult slightly more effective in white ball than red ball imo.

    Bumrah has had a poor 18 months or so.

  19. #19
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    It's easier when some can have more rest than the other bowlers.

    It has to be equally weighted and accounted for.

    Do these include only home matches or away matches too? I don't ever recall Boult performing well in India or Asia.
    I don't recall Hazelwood performing all that well either in Asia.

    Rabada's stats overall is close to 27.5.
    Rabada is an ATG but I am sure his lower average post 16 is to do with home pitches. Although he was brillant vs Australia iirc. I am actually surprised by his 27 average. He must be poor in Asia.

  20. #20
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    Bumrah a Minnow basher?


  21. #21
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    If anything, one ugly truth is exposed in this thread - how brutally the game has become one sided in favour of batting. Today, over 90% of games are predictable by 50 overs of 100, sometimes even after 35 or 25 overs - that’s because the game is made into a batting shootout and teams falling behind has very little to make a come back. Teams are forced to a mad rush from ball one - if it clicks, 350+ will be on board and chasing side has a very little chance to win it, if it doesn’t click, basically a 40 overs chase. I badly miss those days of ODI cricket which had so many twists & turns in most games with match totals ranging between 450 to 575.

  22. #22
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    You have left out South Africa deliberately to undermine bumrah's stats against whom he has averaged 19 when they were ranked 3rd.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    Bumrah a Minnow basher?
    If you accept that babar azam is a minnow basher then maybe Yeah.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by The lone Ranger View Post
    If you accept that babar azam is a minnow basher then maybe Yeah.
    Not Babar but Bumrah is a minnow basher .At least Baber scored match winning century against Nz in wc19. On the other hand following are Bumrah's best performances against top teams in odis
    3 for 61 vs Aus
    2 for 79 vs Eng
    3 for 35 vs Nz
    2 for 24 vs Sa

  25. #25
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    Boult is the most skilled left arm pacer after the days of Wasim Akram.

    Excessive focus on Amir and Starc has meant that he doesn’t get the recognition that he deserves.

    He is an elite bowler and better than both of them.

  26. #26
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    Mohammad Shami took 36 wickets at average of 28.5 and Economy 5.9 since 2016 against same opposition.

  27. #27
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    And Australia were playing Coulter Nile and Kane Richardson over Hazelwood at the world cup.....

    That might have cost them their 6th title.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesozoic View Post
    And Australia were playing Coulter Nile and Kane Richardson over Hazelwood at the world cup.....

    That might have cost them their 6th title.
    They lost the semifinal because of their batting collapse on a flat wicket. Even McGrath and Warne wouldn’t have saved them on the day let alone Hazlewood.

    Also I think he wasn’t fully fit and they were saving him for the Ashes where they needed him more.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    They lost the semifinal because of their batting collapse on a flat wicket. Even McGrath and Warne wouldn’t have saved them on the day let alone Hazlewood.

    Also I think he wasn’t fully fit and they were saving him for the Ashes where they needed him more.
    He was fit by that time but they were saving him for Ashes because they felt leaving out Hazelwood will not have any major impact going into World Cup given his past one year form.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    Pretty sure he wasn;t selected for the world cup last year because he was recovering from an injury earlier in the year and Australia didn't want to risk him getting injured before The Ashes.
    IIRC at the same time time when World Cup was happening, Hazelwood was playing for One Day games for Aus A against County sides. He had recovered from injury but wasn't selected for the WC squad

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Boult is the most skilled left arm pacer after the days of Wasim Akram.

    Excessive focus on Amir and Starc has meant that he doesn’t get the recognition that he deserves.

    He is an elite bowler and better than both of them.
    Agreed i still remember when he took that hattrick against pakistan and humiliated hafeez who even took a review even though it was a straight forward wicket just to deny the hattrick.

  32. #32
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    It is important to consider that Starc is the most aggressive bowler of his era. He never bowls defensively and rarely tries to rough the batsmen up with bouncers.

    He is always trying to get the batsmen bowled or trap him on the pads, which means he is very destructive when he is on song but he concedes a lot of boundaries as well.

    It is also a main reason why he has generally been an inconsistent Test bowler.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    They lost the semifinal because of their batting collapse on a flat wicket. Even McGrath and Warne wouldn’t have saved them on the day let alone Hazlewood.

    Also I think he wasn’t fully fit and they were saving him for the Ashes where they needed him more.
    McGrath not much but Warne had the magic

    The GOAT WC semi/final player
    Hazlewood def wouldn’t have made a difference though

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by The lone Ranger View Post
    If you accept that babar azam is a minnow basher then maybe Yeah.
    Babar averages 45+ against top teams try again while Bumrah averages nearly 40 not in batting I repeat. I actually rate Bumrah as a bowler and feel hes much better then these stats so kindly stop crying when presented with facts.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    Babar averages 45+ against top teams try again while Bumrah averages nearly 40 not in batting I repeat. I actually rate Bumrah as a bowler and feel hes much better then these stats so kindly stop crying when presented with facts.
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    Bumrah averages 34 against top teams which is better than Starc. Not sure how it's minnow bashing btw

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by The lone Ranger View Post
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    Bumrah averages 34 against top teams which is better than Starc. Not sure how it's minnow bashing btw
    You can add his stats vs Pakistan as well, just because he let the team down in the CT final or averages over 40 you cant just remove them.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan hunt View Post
    You can add his stats vs Pakistan as well, just because he let the team down in the CT final or averages over 40 you cant just remove them.
    Tell this to the OP your country man who created this thread and didn't include Pak either. He probably doesn't think pakistan as a top team maybe because they're ranked 6th or 7th in ODIs? I'm not sure!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by The lone Ranger View Post
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    Bumrah averages 34 against top teams which is better than Starc. Not sure how it's minnow bashing btw
    Accordong to those stats what you would regularly expect from bumrah would be 1 for 50 and occasionally 2 for 50 among which some of the wickets would be of late order batsmen. What you would expect from babar are nearly 50 plus scores each and every game at sr of 90 and he seems to keep approving.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by The lone Ranger View Post
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    Bumrah averages 34 against top teams which is better than Starc. Not sure how it's minnow bashing btw
    And that's awful for the best bowler in the world. Babar is minnow basher with 45 + plus against top teams and Bumrah is not with 35 lol. Do you even have brain cells.

  40. #40
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    Shaheen Shah Afridi is better everyone at the moment.


    Self belief and hard work will always earn you success - Kohli
    What we think we become - Buddha

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    Hazelwood is top class bowler. He is seriously underrated on PP.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by The lone Ranger View Post
    Tell this to the OP your country man who created this thread and didn't include Pak either. He probably doesn't think pakistan as a top team maybe because they're ranked 6th or 7th in ODIs? I'm not sure!
    No but you added a team so i was wondering why you didnt add Pakistan while at it.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    And that's awful for the best bowler in the world. Babar is minnow basher with 45 + plus against top teams and Bumrah is not with 35 lol. Do you even have brain cells.
    I didn't say that he's the best bowler in the world. And I just said babar azam a minnow basher as a counter post to your comment which says bumrah is a minnow basher. My question is how averaging 34 against top teams is minnow bashing? Even Starc also has the similar stats does that mean he's also a minnow basher?.

    Babar has averaged 43 against top teams and most of you guys have voted him as the best white ball player in the world in some other thread. IMO he's neither minnow basher nor the best white ball player.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHN1293 View Post
    Accordong to those stats what you would regularly expect from bumrah would be 1 for 50 and occasionally 2 for 50 among which some of the wickets would be of late order batsmen. What you would expect from babar are nearly 50 plus scores each and every game at sr of 90 and he seems to keep approving.
    We can say the same for every good bowlers whose stats are similar to him like Starc, Cummins, Amir etc. But what differentiate him from others is his economy which (below 5) is so good given that he's mostly bowling at the death overs.
    As far babar, I was just kidding with him I know he's one of the good players.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    And that's awful for the best bowler in the world. Babar is minnow basher with 45 + plus against top teams and Bumrah is not with 35 lol. Do you even have brain cells.
    That's true. Bumrah needs to learn how to bowl on Pattas in odi. He needs to be better with the new ball. He has the skills. Needs to work on his outswinger and take pace of cutter balls.
    Bumrah and Starc have had pretty average stats vs the best teams. The thing is they really turn it up in world cups however.

    I would say vs top 4, rabada, Shami and Hazelwood have been the best. Shami was actually too quality In 2015 WC and did good in 2019 too.

  46. #46
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    Shaheen is better at the moment he will surpass all the names above in year by a mile

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smudger View Post
    Since 1 Jan 2016

    Against Top 4 sides



    M Starc

    Inns 24

    Wkts 38

    Avg 35.68

    Econ 5.99



    Bumrah

    Inns 31

    Wkts 39

    Avg 39.23

    Econ 5.33



    Boult

    Inns 31

    Wkts 59

    Avg 25.8

    Econ 5.26



    Rabbada

    Inns 30

    Wkts 53

    Avg 26.66

    Econ 5.25



    Hazlewood

    Inns 21

    Wkts 42

    Avg 23.73

    Econ 4.94



    Cummins

    Inns 33

    Wkts 51

    Avg 31.19

    Econ 5.32



    Amir

    Inns 24

    Wkts 33

    Avg 32.45

    Econ 5.23
    Seems like useless Cummins better than mighty Bumrah. Hazlewood is seriously underrated probably the best against top 4 odi sides and Boult too is way better than Starc.
    Id replace amir with shaheen easily

  48. #48
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    Bumrah getting exposed here. Never really respected him much thankfully. A poor man's Malinga at best.

    On the other hand it just goes to show how good Shaheen is. The mist complete fast bowler currently. Boults stats are seriously inflated by playing on green mambas all the time. Becomes completely innocuous everywhere else.
    Last edited by MenInG; 3rd December 2020 at 12:20.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrhandsome View Post
    Almighty Gumrah getting exposed here. Never really respected him much thankfully. A poor man's Malinga at best.
    On the other hand it just goes to show how good Shaheen is. The mist complete fast bowler currently. Boults stats are seriously inflated by playing on green mambas all the time. Becomes completely innocuous everywhere else.
    Shaheen is indeed a quality bowler but he isnt better than bumrah. Bumrah will come back strong.

  50. #50
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    Shaheen's got that Wasim Bhai knack of bringing it back late, at pace & from a greater height, something that was sorely missing from any of the LFs that came after the PreBan Amir.

    I think when he tries to do a Rauf in LOIs (match him for pace) he goes a bit off line and starts getting carted. Rauf naturally can clock the 148-152 since he is stocky in his built and generates that whip from his broad shoulders while with Naseem, Rauf, Hasnain as enforcers, Shaheen should just cap himself at 145-146 and bring it back in to the right handed bat as a stock ball.

    That if done consistently (like how Steyn did with the out-swinger) would itself be as lethal, a fast bowling weapon, as anything.
    Last edited by ahmedwaqas92; 3rd December 2020 at 08:14.

  51. #51
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    Dont know why people are bringing Shaheen here. He is good but is no way near Rabada,Cummins,Bumrah,Boult and Shami. He has to play a lot more to prove himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    Shaheen is indeed a quality bowler but he isnt better than bumrah. Bumrah will come back strong.
    Bumra is a very good bowler.
    if shaheen can improve in tests i expect him to be way better than all the names above in the near future

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedwaqas92 View Post
    Shaheen's got that Wasim Bhai knack of bringing it back late, at pace & from a greater height, something that was sorely missing from any of the LFs that came after the PreBan Amir.

    I think when he tries to do a Rauf in LOIs (match him for pace) he goes a bit off line and starts getting carted. Rauf naturally can clock the 148-152 since he is stocky in his built and generates that whip from his broad shoulders while with Naseem, Rauf, Hasnain as enforcers, Shaheen should just cap himself at 145-146 and bring it back in to the right handed bat as a stock ball.

    That if done consistently (like how Steyn did with the out-swinger) would itself be as lethal, a fast bowling weapon, as anything.
    From what i seen he needs to learn to take the ball away and needs to learn to set the batter up with the ball coming into the right hander


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