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  1. #1
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    Mohammad Amir blasts Pakistan management, says players are scared of asking for a break

    Pakistan pacer Mohammad Amir has lashed out at the national team management, saying there is a communication gap between the players and the management. Amir, who is not touring New Zealand with Pakistan, said players are scared of requesting breaks even when they are exhausted as they apprehend being dropped from the side.

    Mohammad Amir was dropped from the T20I squad for the tour of New Zealand, helping raise quite a few eyebrows. The Pakistan speedster was part of Pakistan Super League-winning campaign with Karachi Kings but was snubbed for the T20I series against the BlackCaps.

    Amir has been playing for Galle Gladiators in the Lanka Premier League even as the rest of his Pakistan teammates are in quarantine in New Zealand ahead of the limited-overs series, starting December 18.

    "The problem is that if a player musters the courage to say in Pakistan cricket that he wants rest, he is dropped, so players are now scared about speaking about it with the management," Amir told 'News One' channel.

    "There is a mindset in Pakistan cricket where players are scared of being dropped from the team. I think this communication gap should be removed between players and the management.

    "If a player wants to take a break he should be happy to speak about it with the management and they should understand his point of view and give him a rest instead of dropping him from the team."

    Played World Cup opener after taking pain killers: Amir
    Mohammad Amir also alleged that no one in the Pakistan team management listened to him when he asked them to manage his workload after returning from a 5-year ban. Amir said he decided to give up Test cricket to prolong his career but that a few in Pakistan cricket fraternity made a controversy out of his decision to quit the longest format of the game.

    "After I announced my decision no one spoke to me for six months about it and controversy was only created around my decision when we lost in Australia. People lack the common sense to understand the situation I was in after returning to cricket from the five-year ban," Amir said.

    "Ask the team physio the problems I was facing with my eyes, knees and shoulders and I kept on telling them to manage my workload no one listened.

    "I remember playing in the first match of the World Cup with spasms and after taking pain killers. I only decided to retire from Test cricket when I realised my body could not take it and if I wanted to prolong my career I had to do something. So I decided to give up Test cricket to prolong my career."

    Link

  2. #2
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    Amir not doing himself any favors.

    At the end, it is the selectors who can choose whether to select or drop him, cultivating sympathy/support among the people means nothing. I personally think he should be in there, but levelling criticism and talking like an ex-cricketer will only further alienate the PCB.
    Last edited by RedwoodOriginal; 1st December 2020 at 18:04.

  3. #3
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    This argument would make more sense If Amir was not participating in every second cricket league around the world.

  4. #4
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    Misbah has a grudge against Amir and he will not be selected as long as Misbah is coach.

    I think it will be better for Amir if he retires from international cricket and signs a deal with a County. He can continue playing in PSL and other leagues around the world.

  5. #5
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    Amir himself keeps playing every random T20 league in the world. If any of these low budget leagues were paying him a good amount then he might have even taken a retirement from international Cricket.

  6. #6
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    The problem is that Amir's performances were not at par with the expectations and hype he carred during the 5 year ban from 2010 to 2015, had he been performing like Steyn, Starc in the chances he got i.e. taking 4-5 wicket hauls for fun, blasting through major teams, then he had the right to demand what he wanted and the PCB might have even listened to his demands on workload.

    When the likes of Wahab, Junaid, Shinwari, Shaheen Afridi and co race in and bowl fast game after game, play every game for Pakistan without complaining and without demanding preferential treatment, why should he get any preferential treatment ahead of the others without the match winning performances to back it up with?

    And to be honest complaints about workload is rubbish, Amir will not care about his workload if he was selected to play in each and every T-20 league in the world, he will ignore all the problems in his body to play those leagues. By choosing to become a T-20 mercenary he has shot himself in the foot as far as selection in the Pakistani team is concerned and now he is desperately making emotional appeals in the media to pressurize the PCB into selecting him again but the PCB know he is completely surplus to requirements and that the likes of Shaheen, Naseem, Hasnain, Musa, Haris Rauf are our future now.

  7. #7
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    Amir didn't say anything wrong , its player's right to d/w selector his work load.

    Misbah is definitely having some grudge again him, preferring somebody like Musa over him.

    Can;t wait Misbah to go.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Misbah has a grudge against Amir and he will not be selected as long as Misbah is coach.

    I think it will be better for Amir if he retires from international cricket and signs a deal with a County. He can continue playing in PSL and other leagues around the world.
    I am the biggest Misbah critic you will ever find, but how does Amir merit a spot given the state and form he is in?
    It feels like he is breaking his back to bowl 135 kph.

    Even in the ongoing Lpl which has a terribly low standard, he has lacked any penetration and impact.
    It is high time that he stops playing the victim and puts the hard yards in.
    Misbah and waqar will never ignore him if he was bowling well.
    They even recalled him on the England tour, only for him to showcase his weak and undertrained body that broke down in a t20.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacy with wisdom View Post
    I am the biggest Misbah critic you will ever find, but how does Amir merit a spot given the state and form he is in?
    It feels like he is breaking his back to bowl 135 kph.

    Even in the ongoing Lpl which has a terribly low standard, he has lacked any penetration and impact.
    It is high time that he stops playing the victim and puts the hard yards in.
    Misbah and waqar will never ignore him if he was bowling well.
    They even recalled him on the England tour, only for him to showcase his weak and undertrained body that broke down in a t20.
    Some players perform better at bigger stage and how many times Amir has to prove it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by moghul View Post
    Amir didn't say anything wrong , its player's right to d/w selector his work load.

    Misbah is definitely having some grudge again him, preferring somebody like Musa over him.

    Can;t wait Misbah to go.
    Yes, he wanted his workload to be managed, yet kept on running to play for Essex for a full season repeatedly.
    He talks about how unfit he was at the world cup last year, yet he stayed for the t20 blast.

    Misbah might be the worst thing to happen to us, but you cant hold this against him. Everyone can see where Amir's priorities are.

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    He is partially true in a sense that PAK is only team that hardly rotated their squad - until & unless a bowler breaks down, PCT will pick them in squad and play even against Irish reserves. It doesnít help resting in odd games of a series, rather what should be done is to rotate squad, particularly pacers among series.

    Having said that, Amir hasnít done himself a favour by retiring from Test cricket prematurely.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacy with wisdom View Post
    Yes, he wanted his workload to be managed, yet kept on running to play for Essex for a full season repeatedly.
    He talks about how unfit he was at the world cup last year, yet he stayed for the t20 blast.

    Misbah might be the worst thing to happen to us, but you cant hold this against him. Everyone can see where Amir's priorities are.
    The moolahh

  13. #13
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    Isnt Amir self managing his workload now with retirement from test cricket and getting dropped from T20 international squad? He didnt even play a single test under current management so not sure what exactly he is talking about in terms of workload.

    His management of own workload isnt going to great to be honest. If he would have been producing zip and pace I would have accepted that he was not being managed well but, his fitness is still poor and rather than raising the bar he is trying to blame everything else. This is unfortunate that his commitment level towards his game is not upto the mark as of now considering the natural skills he possesses.

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    I'd take Amir on one leg over Musa and Faheem. However his performances have not been up to scratch even in domestic cricket.

    It's true returning from a 5 year suspension is difficult for a fast bowler, but Amir wasn't banned from training or working on his fitness. Now he's a white ball specialist, clearly there's more to his problems than workload.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moghul View Post
    Some players perform better at bigger stage and how many times Amir has to prove it.
    The big stage is a mental difference. Amir is amazing on the big stage. The problem is he has a physical difference and no matter how strong he is mentally he cannot bowl the way he himself would like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Misbah has a grudge against Amir and he will not be selected as long as Misbah is coach.

    I think it will be better for Amir if he retires from international cricket and signs a deal with a County. He can continue playing in PSL and other leagues around the world.
    Misbah should actually be thanking Amir.

    Ironically, Amir played a big part in prolonging this clown's career and bringing him back from the obscurity where he belonged.


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacy with wisdom View Post
    I am the biggest Misbah critic you will ever find, but how does Amir merit a spot given the state and form he is in?
    It feels like he is breaking his back to bowl 135 kph.

    Even in the ongoing Lpl which has a terribly low standard, he has lacked any penetration and impact.
    It is high time that he stops playing the victim and puts the hard yards in.
    Misbah and waqar will never ignore him if he was bowling well.
    They even recalled him on the England tour, only for him to showcase his weak and undertrained body that broke down in a t20.
    Still a better pick the musa tbh.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    The big stage is a mental difference. Amir is amazing on the big stage. The problem is he has a physical difference and no matter how strong he is mentally he cannot bowl the way he himself would like.
    Well put. This physical shortcomings of his is something he unfortunately is not willing to accept and probably thats why there has been literally no improvements. He first thought that retiring from test career would do wonders but, it definitely didnt and now he is now in that grey area of denial and facing reality. I hope he can get his things sorted soon without being too stubborn which he has tendency to be.

    Irrespective of how mentally strong you are and skills you have, without certain level of fitness any sportsman is going to struggle deliver more often than not as the body just doesnt respond.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    Still a better pick the musa tbh.
    Even if they wanted to go for a younger pacer and someone who is available for all formats, I think Arshad Iqbal could have been a much better pick than Musa at this stage. He would have given another option for a tall pacer which adds variety to the attack and his lengths would have been much more suited to longer format. He even outperformed Musa in PSL 2020 and also had better economy and avg than Musa in National T20.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Well put. This physical shortcomings of his is something he unfortunately is not willing to accept and probably thats why there has been literally no improvements. He first thought that retiring from test career would do wonders but, it definitely didnt and now he is now in that grey area of denial and facing reality. I hope he can get his things sorted soon without being too stubborn which he has tendency to be.

    Irrespective of how mentally strong you are and skills you have, without certain level of fitness any sportsman is going to struggle deliver more often than not as the body just doesnt respond.
    Actually, I think he does accept the physical shortcomings. Iíve seen a bunch of interviews where heís said point blank that he knows his pace and swing havenít been up to the mark and his body isnít allowing him to do that.

    So I donít think he is in denial about the physical reality, and I am sure he more than anyone else wants himself to regain form - what that means is thereís something wrong with his fitness routine and the advice heís getting to regain that pace. Iím not sure who heís talking to, but he needs to talk to someone quick.

    Ideally, the national team bowling coach Waqar Younis would be advising him during this period, or at the very least Muhammad Zahid would be at the NHPC. The fact that neither of these things is taking place (at least in public knowledge) means that, probably, Amir is too stubborn to ask for advice. He thinks he can recover form on his own. I donít blame him on a psychological level. During the toughest points of his life, heís had no one but himself for the most part. First, spending time away from home as a teenager and the second, in juvenile in the UK.

    This is the third toughest period of his life. It probably isnít natural for him to reach out to anyone to ask for help, and in fact hasnít even bothered to clarify things with Misbah about his decision to retire stemming from workload - in an interview yesterday, he said ďno one from the PCB has reached out to me in 6 months to discuss my droppingĒ.

    That indicates a fundamental flaw in attitude - he believes people should come to him, and is averse to going to anyone himself. He needs to fix that. And fast. Because even if Misbah gives him a pity call, he needs to reach out to a qualified person who can help him recover his speed. Until then, he has no one to blame but himself.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    Still a better pick the musa tbh.
    Nope.
    With this fitness and technical issues, everyone is a better pick than him.
    Not a musa fan, but Shahnawaz, Akif or Dilbar are all better than him tight now.
    Plus, it doesn't serve Amir well. He needs this break. As @Titan24 has alluded; he is still in self denial and isn't accepting the fact that his ineffectiveness is because of his own training methods and technical issues, rather than just workload.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by moghul View Post
    Some players perform better at bigger stage and how many times Amir has to prove it.
    Amir had his biggest stage 3/4 years ago, he looks more and more unfit every league he plays, he should be blowing away players in leagues like this, but he's currently bein out bowled by MUNAF PATEL.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Actually, I think he does accept the physical shortcomings. Iíve seen a bunch of interviews where heís said point blank that he knows his pace and swing havenít been up to the mark and his body isnít allowing him to do that.

    So I donít think he is in denial about the physical reality, and I am sure he more than anyone else wants himself to regain form - what that means is thereís something wrong with his fitness routine and the advice heís getting to regain that pace. Iím not sure who heís talking to, but he needs to talk to someone quick.

    Ideally, the national team bowling coach Waqar Younis would be advising him during this period, or at the very least Muhammad Zahid would be at the NHPC. The fact that neither of these things is taking place (at least in public knowledge) means that, probably, Amir is too stubborn to ask for advice. He thinks he can recover form on his own. I donít blame him on a psychological level. During the toughest points of his life, heís had no one but himself for the most part. First, spending time away from home as a teenager and the second, in juvenile in the UK.

    This is the third toughest period of his life. It probably isnít natural for him to reach out to anyone to ask for help, and in fact hasnít even bothered to clarify things with Misbah about his decision to retire stemming from workload - in an interview yesterday, he said ďno one from the PCB has reached out to me in 6 months to discuss my droppingĒ.

    That indicates a fundamental flaw in attitude - he believes people should come to him, and is averse to going to anyone himself. He needs to fix that. And fast. Because even if Misbah gives him a pity call, he needs to reach out to a qualified person who can help him recover his speed. Until then, he has no one to blame but himself.
    A very interesting post.
    But the thing is, there is hardly anyone who can help him in Pakistan. He needs help from specialists in Australia or South Africa.
    But then again, first he needs to admit that he needs help.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacy with wisdom View Post
    A very interesting post.
    But the thing is, there is hardly anyone who can help him in Pakistan. He needs help from specialists in Australia or South Africa.
    But then again, first he needs to admit that he needs help.
    Bro he will not admit it. He has created enough of a name/brand that will get him deals with counties and franchises for the next 5-10 years. As long as the cash is flowing into his account there is nothing wrong according to him, and the cash will not stop flowing.

  25. #25
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    Should be the final nail in the coffin for his international career. Good riddance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Bro he will not admit it. He has created enough of a name/brand that will get him deals with counties and franchises for the next 5-10 years. As long as the cash is flowing into his account there is nothing wrong according to him, and the cash will not stop flowing.
    Merey praa, if he continues to play cricket with this fitness and method, then he wont be able to sustain for too long. Given how much contraction he is imparting on his undertrained body, he is an injury waiting to happen at the moment.

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    What workload?? He was out for 5 years & he stayed fit only , not improving his strength was the biggest downfall but I still believe he is a big game player & should be a first choice standby for Shaheen Shah

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    Mohammad Amir also alleged that no one in the Pakistan team management listened to him when he asked them to manage his workload after returning from a 5-year ban. Amir said he decided to give up Test cricket to prolong his career but that a few in Pakistan cricket fraternity made a controversy out of his decision to quit the longest format of the game.

    "After I announced my decision no one spoke to me for six months about it and controversy was only created around my decision when we lost in Australia. People lack the common sense to understand the situation I was in after returning to cricket from the five-year ban," Amir said.

    when you are involved in spot fixing, dont expect people to cater your needs. You lost your bargaining chip when you took money to spot fix.

    The board did an ehsaan on you to allow you to play cricket.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Misbah has a grudge against Amir and he will not be selected as long as Misbah is coach.

    I think it will be better for Amir if he retires from international cricket and signs a deal with a County. He can continue playing in PSL and other leagues around the world.
    he was invovled in spot fixing, wasnt he?


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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    he was invovled in spot fixing, wasnt he?
    And he made his comeback to Test cricket under Misbahís captaincy. However, ever since he retired from Test cricket, it is clear that he is no longer in Misbahís good books.

  31. #31
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    The likes of Wahab, Junaid, Shaheen, Shinwari, Naseem Shah, Hasnain, Musa, Haris Rauf don't go around complaining like sissies about workload and the volume of cricket they are playing. Some of these players have played injured for their franchises and for Pakistan. Shaheen plays all formats but you don't see him crib about anything. Wahab bowled 90 mph plus on the dead wickets scorching heat of UAE for 2-3 seasons, you never saw or heard him complain about anything. Junaid led Pakistan's attack in the UAE for a good 3-4 seasons and never once complained about the volume of overs he had to bowl.

    Amir's is just a pampered cry baby who considers it his birth right to be molly coddled. The PCB should have given him the Salman Butt ragra by asking him to put in 2-3 seasons in domestic cricket before being recalled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    The likes of Wahab, Junaid, Shaheen, Shinwari, Naseem Shah, Hasnain, Musa, Haris Rauf don't go around complaining like sissies about workload and the volume of cricket they are playing. Some of these players have played injured for their franchises and for Pakistan. Shaheen plays all formats but you don't see him crib about anything. Wahab bowled 90 mph plus on the dead wickets scorching heat of UAE for 2-3 seasons, you never saw or heard him complain about anything. Junaid led Pakistan's attack in the UAE for a good 3-4 seasons and never once complained about the volume of overs he had to bowl.

    Amir's is just a pampered cry baby who considers it his birth right to be molly coddled. The PCB should have given him the Salman Butt ragra by asking him to put in 2-3 seasons in domestic cricket before being recalled.
    My friend workload isnít just about mental discomfort, at a certain point fatigue is internalized within the muscles and prevents you from running in as fast, exerting your shoulders as hard, or maintaining your pace as long.

    These are genuine fitness issues caused by overexerting a body that was not exerted at all for 5 years. Bowling is a difficult discipline, you canít just pick it up again after a sustained gap. And even if you do, it doesnít mean your body muscles are used to the rigor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    And he made his comeback to Test cricket under Misbah’s captaincy. However, ever since he retired from Test cricket, it is clear that he is no longer in Misbah’s good books.
    To be honest, Misbah never wanted him while the board did and he couldn't say no to them. Thus, Misbah wasn't going to risk his career for a corrupt player.


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    The big 3 play much more cricket than Pakistan. The problem is Pakistan play full strength team in most games. Amir or other players shouldn't be having to ask to be rested. The management should know when to rest players.

    England are leaving Archer ,Buttler,and Stokes out against South Africa for the ODIs. This will keep those players fresh and they won't need to ask to be rested as ECB have rested.


    We need to learn how to rest players.

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    About time this 30-averaging fraud stops receiving endless attention.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    To be honest, Misbah never wanted him while the board did and he couldn't say no to them. Thus, Misbah wasn't going to risk his career for a corrupt player.
    Misbah was the first guy to meet him during the BPL in late 2015, the night after he got yorked by him.
    I clearly remember this because @Saj himself reported this on PP.
    It is not good to change facts just to suit your narrative. I know why you are doing that, but please dont.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    About time this 30-averaging fraud stops receiving endless attention.
    He wasnt a fraud like you conveniently try to paint him as by extrapolating from his initial stats overseas.
    I am his biggest critic as you might have judged, but he really was a world class bowler who didn't know how to train and look after his body to fulfill his potential.

    What you are seeing today with him is the culmination of that.

    In a professional setup (provided the fixing saga never happened), he really should have been the best all format fast bowler of the last decade.

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    Retire you 37 year old pensioner.

  39. #39
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    Is this rant against the pcb supposed to help him make the selectors pick him once again?

    If theres a communication gap pick up the phone and take the first step yourself Why are you speaking to the media? This will just alienate them further Hes no wasim akram that the board will run after him

    His performances are dire in these t20 leagues On what basis is he expecting to be picked now he isnt playing tests?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Is this rant against the pcb supposed to help him make the selectors pick him once again?

    If theres a communication gap pick up the phone and take the first step yourself Why are you speaking to the media? This will just alienate them further Hes no wasim akram that the board will run after him

    His performances are dire in these t20 leagues On what basis is he expecting to be picked now he isnt playing tests?
    Maybe it's a tactical decision. He knows he's not good enough to represent Pakistan, that's why he wasn't selected. By manufacturing a narrative that he's not being selected due to a grudge will take attention away from his poor performances.

  41. #41
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    Honestly Amir didn't deserve a place.....he is even unfit for ODIs.......he has led his downfall like Hasan Ali..
    Playing in random leagues

  42. #42
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    Whats his performances like in the lankan league so far?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Misbah has a grudge against Amir and he will not be selected as long as Misbah is coach.

    I think it will be better for Amir if he retires from international cricket and signs a deal with a County. He can continue playing in PSL and other leagues around the world.
    True. But Amir offers nothing these days except those back of length off cutters. He doesn't get many wickets so what's the point of having him in the team. I've always believed that he has been massively overrated. He was nowhere near Wasim Akram. The guy just had one great summer in England 2010. And on the basis of that, he was hailed as the successor to Wasim Akram. He has gotten cheap wickets like that 5fer against Australia at Melbourne when the team was like 350 runs behind in the second innings.

    He should be just focusing on T20 leagues around the globe like Chris Gayle. That's what his future is.

  44. #44
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    Regardless of his performances/history, Amir is right.

    A lot of fans have pointed to this as well. Pakistan's cricket team rarely rotates its players (even against Zimbabwe lol) and pretty much runs them into the ground.

    I can never imagine them rotating players like England/Australia do.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    My friend workload isn’t just about mental discomfort, at a certain point fatigue is internalized within the muscles and prevents you from running in as fast, exerting your shoulders as hard, or maintaining your pace as long.

    These are genuine fitness issues caused by overexerting a body that was not exerted at all for 5 years. Bowling is a difficult discipline, you can’t just pick it up again after a sustained gap. And even if you do, it doesn’t mean your body muscles are used to the rigor.
    Have already given examples of other bowlers who don't cry like Amir after having to toil hard on the Cricket field. Amir is already showing us what happens when you pamper and spoil a youngster rather than make him earn his spot in the team again

  46. #46
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    Pakistan plays full strength even against Zim C team. There is no denying that, but Amir is not the right person to talk about it.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  47. #47
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    It is a player's right to demand a re-evaluation of their workload. That being said, the player must actually also perform. Mohammad Amir has been a great bowler for Pakistan. In recent times, his pace has decreased noticeably, and if he thinks that the workload management is to blame, in my opinion, he should stop playing these T20 Leagues and instead take rest and condition his body. Once he can develop enough fitness to bowl longer spells with greater pace, then Misbah should also repay the effort and reward him with selection. For now, until he can find his form again, I think that he should rest, and re-evaluate what he wants to do with his career. Pakistan does not need a T20 Specialist when we have Wahab, Shaheen, Haris, and more to come. What we need is an all-format player to carry the young bowling lineup for the next 3-4 years until the likes of Shaheen, Naseem, Haris are fully developed.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    The big 3 play much more cricket than Pakistan. The problem is Pakistan play full strength team in most games. Amir or other players shouldn't be having to ask to be rested. The management should know when to rest players.

    England are leaving Archer ,Buttler,and Stokes out against South Africa for the ODIs. This will keep those players fresh and they won't need to ask to be rested as ECB have rested.


    We need to learn how to rest players.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingusama92 View Post
    Regardless of his performances/history, Amir is right.

    A lot of fans have pointed to this as well. Pakistan's cricket team rarely rotates its players (even against Zimbabwe lol) and pretty much runs them into the ground.

    I can never imagine them rotating players like England/Australia do.
    Exactly, and the only two reasonable posts on this thread.

    Managing player workloads is important.

    It is exactly why Kawhi Leonard sat out an entire season despite being healthy, because the San Antonio Spurs did not deal with his injuries correctly. He left the next season and won the championship with Toronto. Then Kevin Durant got mismanaged by Golden State and left them despite winning two championships with them.

    Some posters need to man up past their emotional grudges and start seeing the facts for what they are.


    "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." --Aristotle

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    Exactly, and the only two reasonable posts on this thread.

    Managing player workloads is important.

    It is exactly why Kawhi Leonard sat out an entire season despite being healthy, because the San Antonio Spurs did not deal with his injuries correctly. He left the next season and won the championship with Toronto. Then Kevin Durant got mismanaged by Golden State and left them despite winning two championships with them.

    Some posters need to man up past their emotional grudges and start seeing the facts for what they are.
    It's obvious when to rest players. England reresting Buttler,Stokes , and Archer in ODIs because there is no WC for 3 years. If we are playing say Sri Lanka in ODIs and there is no WC for 3/4 years . There is no issue in resting fast bowlers or some senior batters.

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    Mohammad Amir must be correct in this statement.

    In fact, he is not the only fast bowler in the past decade to be a victim of mismanagement and mistreatment of workload.

    Umar Gul, Junaid Khan, Rumman Raees, and Hasan Ali are just a few of the names.

    Who's next? Shaheen Shah Afridi who has been playing every single match in the past year? Naseem Shah who in fact is recovering from injury at the moment?

    Nobody wants to talk about this besides Amir and that is because he is a victim of it himself.


    "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." --Aristotle

  51. #51
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    In the 80's everyone was calling out for central contracts so that players wouldn't have to slog away in English County Cricket.

    The Aussies led the way and then only in the late 90's did England finally introduce central contracts...

    The whole idea was to preserve the player especially the bowlers to give them the best chance for success in international cricket... an income irrespective of country appearances or lack thereof.

    Now it seems we've gone full circle.

    Players would rather play the shorter formats all around the world and earn big money that way..
    That "Who needs test cricket?" Mindset.

    Well Ami, we hardly play test cricket anyway...
    it was only your desire to make the big bucks that lead you to retire from test cricket.

    Whilst that is fine and you have to do what is right for yourself, but then don't go complaining if your country doesn't pick you. There will always be players out there to replace you.
    Last edited by IMMY69; 2nd December 2020 at 01:52.

  52. #52
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    This could still hold up if Amir wasn't running to every T20 league in the world.

  53. #53
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    A few questions that spring to mind are:

    Should the PCB have treated Amir differently given he had not played any cricket for 5 years?

    Did the PCB expect too much too soon?

    Was this Test retirement always in Amir's plans?
    Last edited by Saj; 2nd December 2020 at 02:02.



  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    A few questions that spring to mind are:

    Should the PCB have treated Amir differently given he had not played any cricket for 5 years?

    Did the PCB expect too much too soon?

    Was this Test retirement always in Amir's plans?
    As far as I can tell he wasn't banned from gyms or the local nets for the 5 years too was he? It's a lame excuse. Same goes for Sharjeel, he missed 2 years, that's not an excuse for being fat. Even non athletes don't have an excuse for being fat.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    A few questions that spring to mind are:

    Should the PCB have treated Amir differently given he had not played any cricket for 5 years?

    Did the PCB expect too much too soon?

    Was this Test retirement always in Amir's plans?
    How many tests did he play? 25 since end of his ban? 5 or 6 test matches per year?

    I'm sorry but you have to take some personal responsibility when it comes to fitness and I find it hard to believe that various fitness and bowing coaches during that period failed to pick up any issues with fitness..

  56. #56
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    Why is he playing these back to back t20 leagues if his body needs rest and has been over worked over the last 5 years?

    Doesnt make sense Surely he wouldnt be playing this sri lankan league if that was the case

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Have already given examples of other bowlers who don't cry like Amir after having to toil hard on the Cricket field. Amir is already showing us what happens when you pamper and spoil a youngster rather than make him earn his spot in the team again
    Every body is different. Especially bodies, that I repeat again and again, were out of commission for 5 years. No one else in history has ever had a career like Amirís. From a medical and biomechanical standpoint, it is equivalent to chucking a 16 year old who doesnít know what cricket is, and never played, into cricket and making them play year round for 4 years every single series as a 140kph fast bowler.

    Their bodies will not be used to it and by the age of 20, I fully expect this kid to collapse if not before then.

  58. #58
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    Amir shouldnt have been picked in all formats after his return. PCB was at fault but Amir also need to take some responsibility for his mostly average show since his return.

  59. #59
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    so he committed a crime.

    PCB supported him.

    PCB went out of its way to bring him back.

    Well he didnt respond well with his performance.

    PCB kept picking him despite his lack of performance.

    played a grand total of 22 test matches , 46 odis and 32 t20s in 4 years.

    Thats 188 days of international cricket in more than 1200 days.

    If you just want to freelance just go and do it , stop blaming PCB who could have easily let you rot like they did with Muhammad asif (who could have probably won us a test match in south africa).

    Was the workload too much?


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacy with wisdom View Post
    Misbah was the first guy to meet him during the BPL in late 2015, the night after he got yorked by him.
    I clearly remember this because @Saj himself reported this on PP.
    It is not good to change facts just to suit your narrative. I know why you are doing that, but please dont.
    ? reread what i have said, what has got to do with BPL match ?


    "Life is Pain"
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    so he committed a crime.

    PCB supported him.

    PCB went out of its way to bring him back.

    Well he didnt respond well with his performance.

    PCB kept picking him despite his lack of performance.

    played a grand total of 22 test matches , 46 odis and 32 t20s in 4 years.

    Thats 188 days of international cricket in more than 1200 days.

    If you just want to freelance just go and do it , stop blaming PCB who could have easily let you rot like they did with Muhammad asif (who could have probably won us a test match in south africa).

    Was the workload too much?
    This!

    WHen you get involved in corruption, you lose your bargaining chip there.

    Amir thinks that after completing his ban and doing this ehsaan on Pakistan and cricket he can have a free reign. THat doesn't work.

    Amir lost his bargaining chip when he did corruption.
    He should be thankful to PCB for allowing him to play international cricket. Would had proffered had he been treated like Asif.

    The real reason is, Amir doesn't want to play first class cricket. To him, there is not much money in it and too much hardwork. Franchise T20 is easy money, and you only have to bowl 4 overs. Plus, Amir got married and probably wants to ease done in life, doesn't want to work as hard as he is required for being an international cricketer.

    People have different goals, but do not start blaming other people or organizations if you yourself dont want to work hard and want to change your goals.


    "Life is Pain"
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    ? reread what i have said, what has got to do with BPL match ?
    If holy Misbah was so principled, then being the captain, he should have taken a stand like Hafeez and Azhar.
    His opinion would have carried a lot more weight, especially because not only was he the captain, but the team had a good UAE record at that time and had just defeated England at home.
    As a a result, his career would have had no impact.

    Instead, he showed no spine and just went to share a few rhymes with the guy he supposedly didnt want at the first opportunity that the two could have met after Amir's ban ended.

    I know you love to spin things around to make the guy in your profile pic always look good, but people like us can see right through it.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    He is partially true in a sense that PAK is only team that hardly rotated their squad - until & unless a bowler breaks down, PCT will pick them in squad and play even against Irish reserves. It doesn’t help resting in odd games of a series, rather what should be done is to rotate squad, particularly pacers among series.

    Having said that, Amir hasn’t done himself a favour by retiring from Test cricket prematurely.

    Exactly.. even in this recently finished Zimbabwe series, shaheen was playing the dead rubber 3rd odi. Why because the think tank is brainless. Even mid level teams like Srilanka and Newzealand would rest their premier batsmen and bowlers against Zimbabwe home series, to keep them fresh for the NZL away series and also try out the bench strength. .

    It is good that someone like Amir who was suffered to come out and speak.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacy with wisdom View Post
    If holy Misbah was so principled, then being the captain, he should have taken a stand like Hafeez and Azhar.
    His opinion would have carried a lot more weight, especially because not only was he the captain, but the team had a good UAE record at that time and had just defeated England at home.
    As a a result, his career would have had no impact.

    Instead, he showed no spine and just went to share a few rhymes with the guy he supposedly didnt want at the first opportunity that the two could have met after Amir's ban ended.

    I know you love to spin things around to make the guy in your profile pic always look good, but people like us can see right through it.
    would have suffered* no impact from it.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by moghul View Post
    Some players perform better at bigger stage and how many times Amir has to prove it.
    so why pick him for tiny bilateral series where he wont perform.

  66. #66
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    PCB does not manage the workload of their players well, everyone knows that.
    They are too dumb to formulate proper strategies or even deploy proper people to manage stuff well.

    But for all of that, Amir should be the last one to talk about rest. You've had 5 years rest. You're lucky that you're still getting to play international cricket. Dozens of cricketers involved in corruption wish to get another go in international cricket yet you treat it like it's your right.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by moghul View Post
    Some players perform better at bigger stage and how many times Amir has to prove it.
    Even zim bowler can perform at big stage after their team score 340 in a big final

    The resosn he performed better in bigger stage was ebcaue he was intentionally holding back in other serie and group matches. So while others toiled away every match and got tired, he was not giving his all and was saving himself. Its so obvjous when he actually gives his best and when he holds back. For a long time he knew his place was guaranteed so he always did the bare mimimum

    He is a very very shrewd character who knows how to get the fans attention by doing mumimun thing. If he had performed earlier in the world cup pakistan would have qualified for the semi finals

    Seeing his antics its pretty clear he was not a naive person when he spot fixed
    Last edited by Indiafan; 2nd December 2020 at 21:09.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    Even zim bowler can perform at big stage after their team score 340 in a big final

    The resosn he performed better in bigger stage was ebcaue he was intentionally holding back in other serie and group matches. So while others toiled away every match and got tired, he was not giving his all and was saving himself. Its so obvjous when he actually gives his best and when he holds back. For a long time he knew his place was guaranteed so he always did the bare mimimum

    He is a very very shrewd character who knows how to get the fans attention by doing mumimun thing. If he had performed earlier in the world cup pakistan would have qualified for the semi finals

    Seeing his antics its pretty clear he was not a naive person when he spot fixed
    Looks quite similar to Maxwell 2.0. He holds himself back in IPL but give his all in internationals these days.

  69. #69
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    When he came back they should have just played him in white ball cricket for 12 to 18 months.

    Then slowly brought him back into Test cricket.

    Unfortunately it seems there was no long term or proper plan regarding how he was going to be utilised and which formats or series he would play in, which has meant that we are where we are.



  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    When he came back they should have just played him in white ball cricket for 12 to 18 months.

    Then slowly brought him back into Test cricket.

    Unfortunately it seems there was no long term or proper plan regarding how he was going to be utilised and which formats or series he would play in, which has meant that we are where we are.
    and rightly so.
    He was lucky enough to get a second chance.. everything else in terms of fitness etc was up to him..

    Also some people talking about rotating players...
    Pakistan hardly plays international cricket in the first place...
    These players should be screaming out for more international cricket unless their real desire is just to make money in which case they should cary on playing in these leagues and not complain about being picked for their country.

  71. #71
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    Amir retired from test cricket in 2019, it's almost been 2 years since he played his last test match, his limited overs and T20 performances have not really improved and neither is bowling at 140-145 km/hr and he is only officially 28 years old.

    I don't buy this crap or non sense about his workload being a significant factor behind his decline, others have had the same workload and are still carrying on playing in all formats for the country.

    How about embracing the truth that perhaps he was not as good as he was originally hyped up to be?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Amir retired from test cricket in 2019, it's almost been 2 years since he played his last test match, his limited overs and T20 performances have not really improved and neither is bowling at 140-145 km/hr and he is only officially 28 years old.

    I don't buy this crap or non sense about his workload being a significant factor behind his decline, others have had the same workload and are still carrying on playing in all formats for the country.

    How about embracing the truth that perhaps he was not as good as he was originally hyped up to be?
    Gotchu, so whatís your medical diagnosis on the drop in speed? ďFailure to cut the nonsenseĒ?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    To be honest, Misbah never wanted him while the board did and he couldn't say no to them. Thus, Misbah wasn't going to risk his career for a corrupt player.
    Absolute nonsense lol.

    Misbah went over and beyond to get him back playing for Pakistan.

    I know you live in some pro-Misbah utopia (where he is your messiah) but don't make up lies bro.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    Even zim bowler can perform at big stage after their team score 340 in a big final

    The resosn he performed better in bigger stage was ebcaue he was intentionally holding back in other serie and group matches. So while others toiled away every match and got tired, he was not giving his all and was saving himself. Its so obvjous when he actually gives his best and when he holds back. For a long time he knew his place was guaranteed so he always did the bare mimimum

    He is a very very shrewd character who knows how to get the fans attention by doing mumimun thing. If he had performed earlier in the world cup pakistan would have qualified for the semi finals

    Seeing his antics its pretty clear he was not a naive person when he spot fixed
    India would chase 340 against Zimbabwe with at least 5 overs to spare at ease and yes even in a final!

    Amir has a proven track record of performing when the stakes are high not just in one final lol. Having said that I don't think he should play for Pakistan until he can perform and bowl 140+ consistently.

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    PCB has to take some of the responsibility here.

    Yes, the player is quite rightly having fingers pointed at him regarding his Test retirement decision, but I guarantee if this was an English or Australian player coming back after no cricket for 5 years, a proper plan of reintegration would have been in place with both the Board and the player buying into it.

    I find it ridiculous that a player came back after 5 years and no proper plan was made regarding his selection and availability and instead he was picked for series after series.



  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Absolute nonsense lol.

    Misbah went over and beyond to get him back playing for Pakistan.

    I know you live in some pro-Misbah utopia (where he is your messiah) but don't make up lies bro.
    I have already called him out for this.
    It is astonishing how much he lies to salvage Misbah's reputation.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    PCB has to take some of the responsibility here.

    Yes, the player is quite rightly having fingers pointed at him regarding his Test retirement decision, but I guarantee if this was an English or Australian player coming back after no cricket for 5 years, a proper plan of reintegration would have been in place with both the Board and the player buying into it.

    I find it ridiculous that a player came back after 5 years and no proper plan was made regarding his selection and availability and instead he was picked for series after series.
    Since you are on good terms with him, can you ask him why the pace isnt back, given that it has been a good two years since he last played a test?
    Plus, what is he doing to get it back? Is playing these t20 leagues beneficial to get his pace back?
    Last edited by Pacy with wisdom; 4th December 2020 at 01:51.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    PCB has to take some of the responsibility here.

    Yes, the player is quite rightly having fingers pointed at him regarding his Test retirement decision, but I guarantee if this was an English or Australian player coming back after no cricket for 5 years, a proper plan of reintegration would have been in place with both the Board and the player buying into it.

    I find it ridiculous that a player came back after 5 years and no proper plan was made regarding his selection and availability and instead he was picked for series after series.
    The PCB could have chosen never to pick Amir again and he would be toiling away in domestic cricket. You have domestic pacers who bowl an unlimited number of overs like Tabish Khan, Mir Hamza for 250 plus, 500 plus domestic wickets and never get a chance to play for Pakistan and here we have a convicted spot fixer who got preferential treatment from the PCB and was unfairly fast tracked into the team rather than be made to do the hard yards in domestic cricket

    The reality is Amirs insipid performances eventually made the PCB to stop treating him like a super star and hence they stopped bending over backwards for him because they realized the harsh truth that he was just an ordinary bowler who was no where near as good or hyped up to be as the past legends

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    India would chase 340 against Zimbabwe with at least 5 overs to spare at ease and yes even in a final!

    Amir has a proven track record of performing when the stakes are high not just in one final lol. Having said that I don't think he should play for Pakistan until he can perform and bowl 140+ consistently.
    That score has never been chased in the hisptry of big tournament finals. The pressure is simply unreal. What track record? In one CT where team scored 340+, couple of Asia cups and world t20s and a world cup where he started performing after his team was already almost out of the tournament and wjere youngster Afridi outbowled him?

    Ishant, sreesanth, Irfan pathan have won us multiple CTs and 2 world cups and by defending really low scores. Ishant defended 120 in 20 overs in CT final against england. Are they all big game players and legends? India threw them out first chance they got in LOIs to replace with better bowlers
    Last edited by Indiafan; 4th December 2020 at 08:59.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    That score has never been chased in the hisptry of big tournament finals. The pressure is simply unreal. What track record? In one CT where team scored 340+, couple of Asia cups and world t20s and a world cup where he started performing after his team was already almost out of the tournament and wjere youngster Afridi outbowled him?

    Ishant, sreesanth, Irfan pathan have won us multiple CTs and 2 world cups and by defending really low scores. Ishant defended 120 in 20 overs in CT final against england. Are they all big game players and legends? India threw them out first chance they got in LOIs to replace with better bowlers
    Iím sorry bro but the team that failed that day contained supposedly the GOAT ODI opener in Rohit and GOAT ODI batsman/GOAT ODI chaser in Kohli with the third in the top 3 rounding it out to be what people call the GOAT top 3 if not one of the best ever, as well two ATG ODI Finishers in Dhoni and Yuvraj and a potentially great limited overs middle order batting all-rounder in Pandya.

    Iím just speaking in the words of Indian fans. Amir deserves a lot credit for catalyzing a fantastic collapse.


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