Centre Seeks Amazon Prime's Reply On Complaint Against 'Tandav': Sources

[The Viper]

Mumbai: The Information and Broadcasting Ministry has sought a response from Amazon Prime, sources said, after Maharashtra BJP MLA Ram Kadam on Sunday filed a complaint against the creators, actors and director of Amazon Prime Video's "Tandav", alleging the web series - which stars Saif Ali Khan and Dimple Kapadia - had "insulted Hindu gods and goddesses" and that this happened "every time".

He referred to scenes he said mocked Lord Shiva and demanded they be deleted and that Mohammed Zeeshan Ayyub, another actor in the series, apologise. He also called on I&B Minister Prakash Javadekar to set up a censor board to review content streamed by OTTs like Prime and Netflix.

On Saturday BJP MP Manoj Kotak also wrote to Mr Javadekar, asking for regulation of OTTs he said were "full of sex, violence, drugs, abuse and hate (and) sometimes also hurt sentiments of Hindus..."

"I am going to Ghatkopar Police Station to file an FIR against the creators, actors and director of this web series (who have) hurt the feelings of Hindus (and) desecrated Hindu deities in the Tandava web series," Ram Kadam tweeted in Hindi this morning.

"Why every time in movies and web series Hindu gods and goddesses are insulted? The latest example is 'Tandav' (and) Saif Ali Khan is once again part of a film or series that has (hurt) Hindu sentiments," he added.

"The (scenes) mocking Shiva have to be removed. Actor Zeeshan Ayub and director Ali Abbas Zafar have to apologise. 'Tandav' will be boycotted till necessary changes are made," Ram Kadam said.

Last month Mr Khan was criticised over remarks about a "humane" side to the character of Raavan in "Adipurush", a film scheduled to be released next year. He later apologised for his remarks.

"Tandav", which released Friday, has been criticised by BJP leaders and members of the public for allegedly hurting Hindu sentiments. Among those to lash out is Kapil Mishra, a party figure accused of making incendiary speeches that triggered the violence that engulfed Delhi in February last year.

"As this day comes to an end... There is still this web series available online spreading massive hate against our dharma and our Gods making hero out of terrorists and making fun of our forces... It's still up and running," Kapil Mishra tweeted Saturday.

In his letter to Mr Javadekar, Manoj Kotak (the BJP MP from North East Mumbai) said: "It seems the makers of 'Tandav' (are) deliberately mocking Hindu gods and disrespecting Hindu sentiments"

Last month, the centre brought online news portals and content providers like Amazon Prime Video under Mr Javadekar's ministry. Previously there were no laws or panels governing digital content.

The centre's move came after the Supreme Court sought its response on a petition to have an autonomous body regulate content on OTT, or Over The Top, platforms.

OTT platforms have been frequently accused of hurting Hindu sentiments in the past few months.

In November a FIR was registered against Netflix in Madhya Pradesh's Rewa district after allegations against the BBC adaptation of Vikram Seth's "A Suitable Boy". The scene that drew the ire of self-styled guardians of Indian culture showed a man and a woman kissing inside in a temple.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/tand...-ndtv_bigstory

[CricketCartoons]

Either the content shown in theatres should not go through censor board, or the OTT content should also go through censor board. There must be a level playing field.

[OldWarHorse]

Did they have to sit through this bakwas to find these scenes. Heavy work I tell you. I really didnt notice much of this tbh..I was half asleep though.

[cricketjoshila]

The series is rubbish. But these filmwallahs taking liberties with one particular religion has to stop.

It seems there is a belief in a certain section of thess filmwallahs that, mocking hinduism is an act of liberalism.

[Belawal2014]

The series is rubbish. But these filmwallahs taking liberties with one particular religion has to stop.

It seems there is a belief in a certain section of thess filmwallahs that, mocking hinduism is an act of liberalism.

I watched the series. I agree it was rubbish, but I didn't seem to notice any overtly mocking of the Hindu faith. Casteism? Yes.

[MP2011]

Tandav was such an easy target with quite a few associated with the series being Muslims.

The director (Ali Abbas Zafar), 2 protagonists (Zeeshan & Saif) are all Muslims.

[MP2011]

How can literate people allow themselves to get hurt by such obscure web series?

[CricketCartoons]

How can literate people allow themselves to get hurt by such obscure web series?

The country should take care of its weakest sections too. Just because literate people like you and me don't get hurt by these things, doesn't mean the illiterate, weak and marginalized sections should be ignored.

[CricketCartoons]

Tandav was such an easy target with quite a few associated with the series being Muslims.

The director (Ali Abbas Zafar), 2 protagonists (Zeeshan & Saif) are all Muslims.

Every theatre production, movie, or tv show has quite a few muslims associated. So the content should get a free pass because some of the people in it are muslims?

Strange that instead of focussing on the double standards of tv/movies and web series. Why should movies and tv shows be subject to moderation and certification and web series exempt from all that? Would you support if brick and mortar shops have to pay taxes and e commerce websites are exempt from it?

[IndoorCricket]

How can literate people allow themselves to get hurt by such obscure web series?

You hit the sentiments of a sect of people and ask them not be hurt? I am not sure why there is a need to represent a Hindu deity with Trishul in one hand, a cross painted over the face and spewing obscene words.

[cricketjoshila]

I watched the series. I agree it was rubbish, but I didn't seem to notice any overtly mocking of the Hindu faith. Casteism? Yes.

Did you watch the guy with the trishul or trident scene?

[Giannis]

What is "centre"? Is this about India or Pakistan? Since this is a Pakistani forum we assume "center" refers to Pakistan's federal government.

[Belawal2014]

Did you watch the guy with the trishul or trident scene?

I mean I watched the whole series, probably half-asleep because of how mind-numbing it was, so you're going to have to elaborate (which eps. etc.) so I can go back and check.

[OldWarHorse]

Did you watch the guy with the trishul or trident scene?

Ohh ok...this was the university drama scene in the first episode itself.
Looking back it did seem forced, maybe the makers deliberately wanted to get a controversy going for the show realising how bad it was otherwise.

[Hornbill]

Hurling abuses and profanities at the deity by singing obscene songs (lyrics of the songs contain mostly sexually explicit words) is a part of annual celebrations of a famous temple in Kerala, somebody should make a webseries based on this with hindi and english subtitles, I'm sure even the Delhiites and Punjabis will be offended

[CricketCartoons]

Wonder how people get time to watch every other show that comes, and they seem to finish watching all episodes quickly. Must be having a lot of time to spare to be able to give it to any web series which asks for their attention. I have only watched breaking bad and one season of game of thrones.

[DeadBall]

Wonder how people get time to watch every other show that comes, and they seem to finish watching all episodes quickly. Must be having a lot of time to spare to be able to give it to any web series which asks for their attention. I have only watched breaking bad and one season of game of thrones.

Depends on one's priorities, some like to pass their time watching movies and TV shows while others like to post on TimePass forums.

I get your point about mindlessly watching these mind numbing programs just for the sake of it though. I know many such people but they do it not because they don't want to have their mind broadened, intellectuality challenged, curiosity awakened or entertained but to just not have to think about anything else in their life, can't blame them for that either.

Anyway, you have already watched all there is to watch, just quit while you're ahead.

[Down2Earth]

India's becoming a nation of snowflakes. mention anything about any animal and their feelings really hurt. Like seriously..

[Stewie]

The world has to decide if:

1) we want to continue to allow such stuff under freedom of speech stuff

Or

2) make it an offense if any person/persons can prove certain expressions can’t hurt their religious sentiment

So what’s it gonna be?

[CricketCartoons]

The world has to decide if:

1) we want to continue to allow such stuff under freedom of speech stuff

Or

2) make it an offense if any person/persons can prove certain expressions can’t hurt their religious sentiment

So what’s it gonna be?

It is not just about freedom of speech (even then it has to be applied across all platforms, and tv shows, movies should get same freedom as well). It is about cultural appropriation. Non followers of Lord Shiva do not get to adopt His symbols if they don't believe in Him. Show the creative liberty with your own religious symbols. Don't mess with ours.

[Stewie]

It is not just about freedom of speech (even then it has to be applied across all platforms, and tv shows, movies should get same freedom as well). It is about cultural appropriation. Non followers of Lord Shiva do not get to adopt His symbols if they don't believe in Him. Show the creative liberty with your own religious symbols. Don't mess with ours.

That’s my point, either you respect them all and don’t do anything that hurts anybody’s religious sentiment or you simply allow anyone and everyone to do whatever they please due to freedom of speech and freedom of expression.. whether it’s flat out insulting and character assassinating a religious prophet or simply taking artistic liberty with a deity.

If the end result is a group of people getting sentimentally hurt, does it really matter why or what?

I think as human beings we should all be mindful and respectful and not indulge in any such stuff in the pompous name of freedom. It’s devious, in my opinion. But then again it’s just my opinion. Under “freedom of speech” and “liberty” you can Pooh Pooh whatever I say.

[OldWarHorse]

Wonder how people get time to watch every other show that comes, and they seem to finish watching all episodes quickly. Must be having a lot of time to spare to be able to give it to any web series which asks for their attention. I have only watched breaking bad and one season of game of thrones.

Man everyone has the time. Its all about if you have other priorities or lack thereof.

[El Generico]

An Indian actress with 3M followers tweeted that the cast needs to beheaded.


She deleted this and alter issued another tweet calling the cast worms that need pesticide. I don’t know anything about this show so not defending it but cast needs to up their security. Celebrities with millions of followers are literally calling for their death. Doesn’t India have laws against death threats?

[El Generico]

The series is rubbish. But these filmwallahs taking liberties with one particular religion has to stop.

It seems there is a belief in a certain section of thess filmwallahs that, mocking hinduism is an act of liberalism.

Doesn’t it go both ways? The Indian right wingers were cheering on when Islam was insulted by that French magazine so why complain now? In fact Indian social media becomes ecstatic anytime the Quran and Islam are insulted.

People need to give up their hypocrisy and stick to a point of view. In my opinion any thing that is solely made to insult any religion or religious figure should not be allowed and my view does not change depending on the religion.

[CricketCartoons]

She deleted this and alter issued another tweet calling the cast worms that need pesticide. I don’t know anything about this show so not defending it but cast needs to up their security. Celebrities with millions of followers are literally calling for their death. Doesn’t India have laws against death threats?

In india it is not death threat but death wish, and that is legal. I think in Pakistan too wishing someone's death is acceptable form of showing dissent. eg, chanting murdabad.

[CricketCartoons]

Doesn’t it go both ways? The Indian right wingers were cheering on when Islam was insulted by that French magazine so why complain now? In fact Indian social media becomes ecstatic anytime the Quran and Islam are insulted.

People need to give up their hypocrisy and stick to a point of view. In my opinion any thing that is solely made to insult any religion or religious figure should not be allowed and my view does not change depending on the religion.

Just because there are hypocrites doesn't mean everyone should have free pass to insulting my religion. I don't cheer the insult of any other religion, and have nothing to do with others hypocrisy and i have every right to be offended and demand justice.

[cricketjoshila]

Doesn’t it go both ways? The Indian right wingers were cheering on when Islam was insulted by that French magazine so why complain now? In fact Indian social media becomes ecstatic anytime the Quran and Islam are insulted.

People need to give up their hypocrisy and stick to a point of view. In my opinion any thing that is solely made to insult any religion or religious figure should not be allowed and my view does not change depending on the religion.

You cant insult any religion in India. If those cartoons were made here, the creators would be in jail. French laws OTOH allows such depiction.

What Indians supported was France's right to govern its internal matters, without islamists like Imran or Erdogan interfering. Because thats what India believes in.

[CricketCartoons]

Man everyone has the time. Its all about if you have other priorities or lack thereof.

Are you saying people who binge watch every other show that comes almost immediately lack other priorities? I think they may have reached the place in life where they wanted to be and now can indulge in unlimited entertainment. I was not taking a dig at these people, just envying them.

[El Generico]

You cant insult any religion in India. If those cartoons were made here, the creators would be in jail. French laws OTOH allows such depiction.

What Indians supported was France's right to govern its internal matters, without islamists like Imran or Erdogan interfering. Because thats what India believes in.

So you are saying Indians especially right wingers would be ok if France started insulting Hinduism on a state level? Cmon man, we both know that is not true.

Anyways Imran/Erdogan only spoke up after the French government decide to glorify the blasphemous cartoons. I don’t like modi at all lol but I doubt he would stayed quiet if the French PM insulted Hinduism on a government level like they did with Islam. I am willing to bet he would have reacted the same way as IK or the Turkish president.

[CricketCartoons]

So you are saying Indians especially right wingers would be ok if France started insulting Hinduism on a state level? Cmon man, we both know that is not true.

Irrelevant to this discussion. And you cannot claim something to be true or false if it hasn't happened, except in your imagination.

[MenInG]

New Delhi: Under criticism for its alleged depiction of Hindu deities, the cast and crew of Amazon Prime Video's web series ‘Tandav’ have decided to make changes to the web series to “address the concerns" raised towards it.

The starry political drama has been facing flak for allegedly depicting Hindu Gods in a manner hurtful to the religious sentiments of the people.

In an official statement, the cast and crew of 'Tandav' reiterated that they did not intend to hurt the sentiments of any individual or insult any political party.

"We have the utmost respect for the sentiments of the people of our country. We did not intend to hurt or offend the sentiments of any individual, caste, community, race, religion or religious beliefs or insult or outrage any institution, political party or person, living or dead. The cast & crew of Tandav have made the decision to implement changes to the web series to address the concerns raised towards the same,” read the statement.

“We thank the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting for the guidance & support in the matter. We once again apologize if the series has unintentionally hurt anybody's sentiments,” it added.

'Tandav', featuring actors Saif Ali Khan, Dimple Kapadia, Sunil Grover, Tigmanshu Dhulia, Dino Morea, Kumud Mishra, Mohd Zeeshan Ayyub, Gauhar Khan and Kritika Kamra, premiered on the streaming platform on Friday.

The nine-episode web series is directed and produced by filmmaker Ali Abbas Zafar and Himanshu Kishan Mehra and is written by Gaurav Solanki, best known for "Article 15".

The cast and crew of the web series had yesterday issued an unconditional apology if their fictional show had “unintentionally” hurt sentiments, stating that their show is a work of fiction.

Taking note of complaints against the web series, the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting had on Sunday sought an explanation from the Amazon Prime Video on the issue.

Several OTT platforms, such as Netflix, Amazon Prime Video and Disney+ Hotstar, have brought under the purview the I&B ministry, giving it powers to regulate policies and rules for the digital space

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/a...-series/709284

[MenInG]

Actor Kangana Ranaut's Twitter account was briefly switched to "read-only" mode after her controversial post on the web series "Tandav", which is facing a backlash over scenes that allegedly hurt Hindu sentiments.

In a now-deleted tweet on the makers of "Tandav", the actor had said that it was "time to take their heads off". She had posted the comment in response to the Union Ministry of Information and Broadcasting asking the makers of the series to explain allegations of insult to Hindu Gods in some scenes.

"Because even Lord Krishna forgave 99 mistakes of Sheshupala.... pehle Shanti phir Kranti (Silence must be followed by revolution).... time to take their heads off... Jai Shri Krishan...," Kangana Ranaut had tweeted.

This morning, her Twitter account was restricted for hours.

A Twitter spokesperson said the micro-blogging site had a policy against any account that violated its police on abusive behavior and engaged in targeted harassment.

"We take action on any account that violates the Twitter Rules. We welcome people to freely express themselves on our service, however as outlined in our Abusive Behaviour Policy, you may not engage in the targeted harassment of someone, or incite other people to do so," said Twitter.

"We prohibit content that wishes, hopes or expresses a desire for death, serious bodily harm against an individual or group of people and take enforcement action when we identify violations which could include placing an account in read-only mode."

[silentkiller187]

Is it only freedom of speech when people are drawing and criticising prophets?

[Dark_Horse]

You cant insult any religion in India. If those cartoons were made here, the creators would be in jail. French laws OTOH allows such depiction.

What Indians supported was France's right to govern its internal matters, without islamists like Imran or Erdogan interfering. Because thats what India believes in.

Then the Bharat Mata & west should know dealing with Qadiyanis/Hindus/Blasphemers is our internal matter they should not interfere, no matter how we deal...... No human rights sh*t

However I believe no religion should be insulted/degraded in any form

[cricketjoshila]

Then the Bharat Mata & west should know dealing with Qadiyanis/Hindus/Blasphemers is our internal matter they should not interfere, no matter how we deal...... No human rights sh*t

However I believe no religion should be insulted/degraded in any form

Yes. As long as Pakistan doesn't start giving sermons to others.

[Zaz]

So out hindu friends are offended? The same ones thay were supporting the french during the prophet insults

They need to grow a pair n jog on

[MP2011]

Just saw that particular scene with trident in the hand of Zeeshan Ayub. Lol, are these sanghis really offended over that scene?

I mean, really? Is this all they could find what was damaging Hinduism? Are they sure or is it pests like themselves who have damaged Hinduism more than anything else?

PS: Is it due to the fact that this scene was shot on a Muslim (the one who is already in bigot's crosshairs due to him taking active part in anti CAA protests)?

[CricketCartoons]

Just saw that particular scene with trident in the hand of Zeeshan Ayub. Lol, are these sanghis really offended over that scene?

I mean, really? Is this all they could find what was damaging Hinduism? Are they sure or is it pests like themselves who have damaged Hinduism more than anything else?

PS: Is it due to the fact that this scene was shot on a Muslim (the one who is already in bigot's crosshairs due to him taking active part in anti CAA protests)?

It is cultural appropriation. If you are not a believer in Lord Shiva, you don't co-opt our sacred symbols for your commercial or political interests. Look up what cultural appropriation means.

[CricketCartoons]

So out hindu friends are offended? The same ones thay were supporting the french during the prophet insults

They need to grow a pair n jog on

No hypocrisy here at least. They supported french laws to be upheld in france and want indian laws to be upheld in india. Indian laws don't allow for hurting religious sentiments, but they don't take suo moto cognisance unless people protest.

[IndoorCricket]

So out hindu friends are offended? The same ones thay were supporting the french during the prophet insults

They need to grow a pair n jog on

Many condemned the act of terrorism that followed. No one is beheaded in India yet.

[cric_man]

Many condemned the act of terrorism that followed. No one is beheaded in India yet.

They get lynched...

[IndoorCricket]

They get lynched...

I am sorry. I might have missed the news. Who got lynched in India because of insulting religious figures? I know people got lynched for stealing cows and distributing beef which is a issue of livelihood and people also got lynched because of watsapp rumors.

[El Generico]

I am sorry. I might have missed the news. Who got lynched in India because of insulting religious figures? I know people got lynched for stealing cows and distributing beef which is a issue of livelihood and people also got lynched because of watsapp rumors.

Lol really? Are you trying to say that the lynchings were because of livelihood not because cows are considered holy? who are you trying to kid?

Why aren’t people lynched for smuggling sheep or goats? Why do the mobs chant religious slogans while carrying out the lynchings? I am pretty you know this isn’t about “livelihood”.

Cows are considered sacred In Hinduism and eating them is equivalent of blasphemy for some which is why the lynchings happen. BTW isn’t not just for “stealing” , people have killed because they were just suspected of eating beef.

Here is just one example of a guy who was killed because his neighbours thought he had beef in his fridge. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34398433

[JaDed]

So out hindu friends are offended? The same ones thay were supporting the french during the prophet insults

They need to grow a pair n jog on

Naw don’t care still..

[IndoorCricket]

Lol really? Are you trying to say that the lynchings were because of livelihood not because cows are considered holy? who are you trying to kid?

Why aren’t people lynched for smuggling sheep or goats? Why do the mobs chant religious slogans while carrying out the lynchings? I am pretty you know this isn’t about “livelihood”.

Cows are considered sacred In Hinduism and eating them is equivalent of blasphemy for some which is why the lynchings happen. BTW isn’t not just for “stealing” , people have killed because they were just suspected of eating beef.

Here is just one example of a guy who was killed because his neighbours thought he had beef in his fridge. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34398433

Again you didn't provide any evidence where people were lynched because of insulting Hindu Gods/ Deities. People were trashed in India for insulting Hindu deities. You might not know about India. Cows are treated as family members they are very much part of family and they are primary source of Income for many.

They might be considered holy. But no one gets hurts abusing or insulting a cow in India. You steal someone else source of income you face the music. Who told you people were not getting lynched for stealing sheep or goats?

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/stor...904-2020-05-11

Again it a source of income for many in rural India. Are goats and sheep's holy in India? Absolutely not.

[El Generico]

@IndoorCricket

Slaughter of cows is a sensitive issue in India as the animal is considered sacred by Hindus, who comprise 80% of the country's 1.2bn people.
Uttar Pradesh is among a number of Indian states who have tightened laws banning cow slaughter and the sale and consumption of beef.
The beef ban has also provoked outrage with many questioning how the government decides what is on their plate.
Mr Akhlaq's family said the family had stored mutton, and not beef in their fridge. The police have taken the meat and sent it for testing, reports said.

This man was killed cause people thought he had beef in his fridge, whose livelihood was he stealing? It is also said that it would be fine if it was mutton but he was killed cause they thought it was beef.

Also can you tell me why they chant religious slogan if this has nothing at all to do with religion? Also why is it almost always orange clad religious groups that “protect” cows and lynch people?

[cricketjoshila]

So out hindu friends are offended? The same ones thay were supporting the french during the prophet insults

They need to grow a pair n jog on

No we don't. This is India not France.

[El Generico]

@IndoorCricket

Is this also because of livelihood? This lawyer has brutally murdered because he “insulted” Hinduism.

Maheshwari was critical of both Hinduism and Brahmanism. These writings and posts on his Facebook page did not go down well with Bharat.

https://indianexpress.com/article/in...loyer-6618382/

A few people might have believed you if it wasn’t for cases like this happening literally a few months ago. Killing because of supposed insult to religion or to scared animals seem to be quite common in India. I could literally post dozens of links but it would better for you to just google religious lynchings or murders.

[CricketCartoons]

Again you didn't provide any evidence where people were lynched because of insulting Hindu Gods/ Deities. People were trashed in India for insulting Hindu deities. You might not know about India. Cows are treated as family members they are very much part of family and they are primary source of Income for many.

They might be considered holy. But no one gets hurts abusing or insulting a cow in India. You steal someone else source of income you face the music. Who told you people were not getting lynched for stealing sheep or goats?

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/stor...904-2020-05-11

Again it a source of income for many in rural India. Are goats and sheep's holy in India? Absolutely not.

It is a law and order problem. cattle theft and smuggling is a big problem, and the police fail to register an FIR because they want to look good on paper by not registering thefts, and in case they register an FIR, they don't want to spend their efforts in looking for your cattle. The vigilantism was bound to happen when there is vacuum in law and order.

[cricketjoshila]

Lol really? Are you trying to say that the lynchings were because of livelihood not because cows are considered holy? who are you trying to kid?

Why aren’t people lynched for smuggling sheep or goats? Why do the mobs chant religious slogans while carrying out the lynchings? I am pretty you know this isn’t about “livelihood”.

Cows are considered sacred In Hinduism and eating them is equivalent of blasphemy for some which is why the lynchings happen. BTW isn’t not just for “stealing” , people have killed because they were just suspected of eating beef.

Here is just one example of a guy who was killed because his neighbours thought he had beef in his fridge. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34398433

BBC wont tell you about this as it will not fit their agenda.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www.i...067-2019-10-23

[IndoorCricket]

@IndoorCricket



This man was killed cause people thought he had beef in his fridge, whose livelihood was he stealing? It is also said that it would be fine if it was mutton but he was killed cause they thought it was beef.

Also can you tell me why they chant religious slogan if this has nothing at all to do with religion? Also why is it almost always orange clad religious groups that “protect” cows and lynch people?

You are dodging the question again. No one gets hurt or beheaded for abusing cow. You asked on whether people were getting killed for stealing goats and sheep's and you got the answer.

And as I said there are considered holy there might be religious connotations to it. People will face music when a member of a family is kidnapped.

Btw they did have cow in their house http://scroll.in/latest/809100/dadri...new-lab-report

Beef is illegal in UP. There are many illegal slaughter houses in UP. How the hell did this person got hold of it? Mostly through illegal means. And what are these illegal means?

I am in no way supporting this act of violence. No one deserves to be killed for hurting other religious sentiments.

[cricketjoshila]

Again you didn't provide any evidence where people were lynched because of insulting Hindu Gods/ Deities. People were trashed in India for insulting Hindu deities. You might not know about India. Cows are treated as family members they are very much part of family and they are primary source of Income for many.

They might be considered holy. But no one gets hurts abusing or insulting a cow in India. You steal someone else source of income you face the music. Who told you people were not getting lynched for stealing sheep or goats?

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/stor...904-2020-05-11

Again it a source of income for many in rural India. Are goats and sheep's holy in India? Absolutely not.

Cow smuggling is a big issue. Since most hindu families wont sell a cow to a butcher because of various reasons, religious and social, cow stealing and smuggling is rampant.

Now police refuses to act because of appeasement policy also and they don't want to do the leg work needing to find the cattle.

[El Generico]

BBC wont tell you about this as it will not fit their agenda.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www.i...067-2019-10-23

What does that even prove? Does this disprove that Hindu mobs kill people in India for eating beef because cows are scared to them? That posters was claiming that Hindus never kill if their religion or beliefs are insulted , read the post I quoted. I never said anything about Muslims.

Or are you trying to say those lynchings are justified based on what happened to Tiwari? I genuinely don’t get how your post discredits or challenges my point.

[IndoorCricket]

It is a law and order problem. cattle theft and smuggling is a big problem, and the police fail to register an FIR because they want to look good on paper by not registering thefts, and in case they register an FIR, they don't want to spend their efforts in looking for your cattle. The vigilantism was bound to happen when there is vacuum in law and order.

Exactly. Its law and order problem in India. Law and Order in rural areas is a alien thing. This needs to be fixed for the vigilantism to vanish. But cant compare these lynching's to beheadings.

[cricketjoshila]

@IndoorCricket

Is this also because of livelihood? This lawyer has brutally murdered because he “insulted” Hinduism.



https://indianexpress.com/article/in...loyer-6618382/

A few people might have believed you if it wasn’t for cases like this happening literally a few months ago. Killing because of supposed insult to religion or to scared animals seem to be quite common in India. I could literally post dozens of links but it would better for you to just google religious lynchings or murders.

It will be a long long list if one tries to compile the incidents of violence in the name of insult to "islam".

Coming to the topic, the man in the article was insulting Brahmins and a Brahmin drunkard killed him. Its nothing to do with religion. Its a personal issue.

[El Generico]

Cow smuggling is a big issue. Since most hindu families wont sell a cow to a butcher because of various reasons, religious and social, cow stealing and smuggling is rampant.

Now police refuses to act because of appeasement policy also and they don't want to do the leg work needing to find the cattle.

Wow so we have educated posters pretty much justifying the lynchings and pinning the blame on “appeasement”. If a supposedly educated man posting on a online forum can find a justification for these brutal killings the imagine the mindset of a normal everyday extremist. No wonder these lynchings are rampant.

[CricketCartoons]

Exactly. Its law and order problem in India. Law and Order in rural areas is a alien thing. This needs to be fixed for the vigilantism to vanish. But cant compare these lynching's to beheadings.

In my neck of the wood, if a cattle thief was caught, he would be tied to a tree for few days, and any one who passed by the tree was free to give few slaps to the thief. But usually they would not be caught, and poor milkmen would be crying when their cows or buffaloes were stolen. They already live a hand to mouth life.

[El Generico]

It will be a long long list if one tries to compile the incidents of violence in the name of insult to "islam".

Coming to the topic, the man in the article was insulting Brahmins and a Brahmin drunkard killed him. Its nothing to do with religion. Its a personal issue.

Again does not disapprove my point that Hindu mobs have been known to lynch and kill when their holy animal is even suspected of being ikn”danger”. Like I said read the post I was responding. Your usual mantra of Muslim=Bad is irrelevant to the topic.

BTW reread the article the man was killed for an offensive Facebook post about Hinduism and Brahmins.

[CricketCartoons]

Wow so we have educated posters pretty much justifying the lynchings and pinning the blame on “appeasement”. If a supposedly educated man posting on a online forum can find a justification for these brutal killings the imagine the mindset of a normal everyday extremist. No wonder these lynchings are rampant.

It is an explanation, not a justification. When the cattle thiefs are not following the law, and the law is not protecting the victims, some of the victims will make their own laws. It is a symptom, not the disease.

[CricketCartoons]

Again does not disapprove my point that Hindu mobs have been known to lynch and kill when their holy animal is even suspected of being ikn”danger”. Like I said read the post I was responding. Your usual mantra of Muslim=Bad is irrelevant to the topic.

BTW reread the article the man was killed for an offensive Facebook post about Hinduism and Brahmins.

Yes, some of these hindus may kill muslims out of personal enmity, but doesn't mean the problem of cattle smuggling is not real, and the poor victims whose cattle and livelihood is harmed are oppressors.

[cricketjoshila]

Wow so we have educated posters pretty much justifying the lynchings and pinning the blame on “appeasement”. If a supposedly educated man posting on a online forum can find a justification for these brutal killings the imagine the mindset of a normal everyday extremist. No wonder these lynchings are rampant.

Rampant? Can you list out the numbers please?

Its a law and order issue, police failing to stop cow smuggling due to political interference or laziness is one of the root causes. Then comes the issue of people who try to illegally slaughter cows, thinking political backing will save them. Thats why cow smuggling has become such an issue.

[cricketjoshila]

Again does not disapprove my point that Hindu mobs have been known to lynch and kill when their holy animal is even suspected of being ikn”danger”. Like I said read the post I was responding. Your usual mantra of Muslim=Bad is irrelevant to the topic.

BTW reread the article the man was killed for an offensive Facebook post about Hinduism and Brahmins.

Indian laws dont allow cow slaughter. French laws allow cartoons. Those indulging in cow smuggling and slaughtering in India are criminals, who most of the time get away due to the laxity of law enforcement. Hindus dont ask other countries to stop killing cows.

Just like there are some nut jobs extremists among Christians who do gun attacks like Christchurch.

Or Sikhs blowing up an aircraft.

But the number of such attacks have a disproportionate number of muslim extremists.

Cartoonists in France are not criminals. They are within the law to make those cartoons, Imran Khan or Erdogan have no business telling them what they should do.

[El Generico]

Indian laws dont allow cow slaughter. French laws allow cartoons. Those indulging in cow smuggling and slaughtering in India are criminals, who most of the time get away due to the laxity of law enforcement. Hindus dont ask other countries to stop killing cows.

Just like there are some nut jobs extremists among Christians who do gun attacks like Christchurch.

Or Sikhs blowing up an aircraft.

But the number of such attacks have a disproportionate number of muslim extremists.

Cartoonists in France are not criminals. They are within the law to make those cartoons, Imran Khan or Erdogan have no business telling them what they should do.

How is any of this relevant? Whether they are criminals or not they don’t deserve to be lynched on the streets. Also who cares if Hindus don’t tell other countries to stop cow slaughter does that make it for them to kill anyone that slaughters a cow in their country? If it is a crime then they should call the cops. Police being “lazy” is not a legit excuse for killing people.

From you post it seems like you are saying that the lynchings are fine as they only kill people in their own country? Extremism is extremism doesn’t matter where it takes place.

Also not sure what Erdogan and Imran Khan have to do with this considering that was not the topic we were discussing at this point. No offence but it seems like you almost follow a script while posting. I mean my initial response was to a poster who said Hindu extremist never kill anyone even in India so I pointed out the beef lynchings and you started quoting me with stuff about France,Turkey and Pakistan. If this was Twitter I would think you were a bot.

[El Generico]

Rampant? Can you list out the numbers please?

Its a law and order issue, police failing to stop cow smuggling due to political interference or laziness is one of the root causes. Then comes the issue of people who try to illegally slaughter cows, thinking political backing will save them. Thats why cow smuggling has become such an issue.

Again throughout this post it seems like you are trying to make it seem like the people who smuggle cows are bigger criminals than the mobs who slaughter people on the street even on a slight suspicion.


As for the numbers, this link has a pretty detailed analysis of rising case of extremist killings in India.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2019/02/1...ack-minorities

[CricketCartoons]

Again throughout this post it seems like you are trying to make it seem like the people who smuggle cows are bigger criminals than the mobs who slaughter people on the street even on a slight suspicion.


As for the numbers, this link has a pretty detailed analysis of rising case of extremist killings in India.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2019/02/1...ack-minorities

Why don't you take this discussion to another thread? This has nothing to do with OP.

[cricketjoshila]

How is any of this relevant? Whether they are criminals or not they don’t deserve to be lynched on the streets. Also who cares if Hindus don’t tell other countries to stop cow slaughter does that make it for them to kill anyone that slaughters a cow in their country? If it is a crime then they should call the cops. Police being “lazy” is not a legit excuse for killing people.

From you post it seems like you are saying that the lynchings are fine as they only kill people in their own country? Extremism is extremism doesn’t matter where it takes place.

Also not sure what Erdogan and Imran Khan have to do with this considering that was not the topic we were discussing at this point. No offence but it seems like you almost follow a script while posting. I mean my initial response was to a poster who said Hindu extremist never kill anyone even in India so I pointed out the beef lynchings and you started quoting me with stuff about France,Turkey and Pakistan. If this was Twitter I would think you were a bot.

Its very relevant. These criminals need to be brought to the book and crime controlled. So should be the people who indulge in lynchings. One sided narrative isnt going to help.

Again, Pakistanis including the pakistan PM was telling the French how to act in theirbown country. Hindus dont do that, hence both matters are not comparable, like a few posters are trying to.

I have already said, those lynchers are also victims of neglect by law. The law needs to protect both sides, it should make sure that cow smuggling stops. They should punish anyone who is involved in lynchings.

[cricketjoshila]

Again throughout this post it seems like you are trying to make it seem like the people who smuggle cows are bigger criminals than the mobs who slaughter people on the street even on a slight suspicion.


As for the numbers, this link has a pretty detailed analysis of rising case of extremist killings in India.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2019/02/1...ack-minorities

Please post a proper source and not a NGO link.

[cricketjoshila]

In my time on PP, i have learnt something, a large number of posters believe that Pakistan has the right to be governed as an Islamic country, to which i agree.

But they also believe other countries should make adjustments as per the conveince of muslims, if not, then they are racist fascist and bigoted, to which i dont agree.

[MenInG]

In my time on PP, i have learnt something, a large number of posters believe that Pakistan has the right to be governed as an Islamic country, to which i agree.

But they also believe other countries should make adjustments as per the conveince of muslims, if not, then they are racist fascist and bigoted, to which i dont agree.

Fair assessment on some parts

But we also have the right to call out any injustices we see - anywhere in the world, including in Pakistan

[cricketjoshila]

Fair assessment on some parts

But we also have the right to call out any injustices we see - anywhere in the world, including in Pakistan

Injustice is a very big broad word.

What may be injustice somewhere may be lawful elsewhere.

In Pakistan,a non muslim cant be PM or President, to an outsider it appears as injustice, but in pakistan its law as it's a islamic country.

In India, most states have banned cow slaughter and people can be punished under law for it. Rest of the world may see it as injustice, but in India that is law.

In France, making cartoons of religious figures is legal,in India or Pakistan insulting religious figures will invite penal provisions. Which is right or which is wrong?

A democracy will look at a monarchy or a communist dictatorship as injustice, but my experience tell me that many if not most are happy in monarchies or dictatorships that provides them all facilities and a great standard of living, compared to a poor democracy.

Its a fallacy to look at another country or society through the lens of another one, uniform or universal laws wont work. Let each society or nation state solve its issues by its own.

[Zaz]

It is cultural appropriation. If you are not a believer in Lord Shiva, you don't co-opt our sacred symbols for your commercial or political interests. Look up what cultural appropriation means.

How ridiculous I think you need to look up the meaning yourself, its only considered controversial when members of a dominant culture appropriate from disadvantaged minority cultures

[Zaz]

No hypocrisy here at least. They supported french laws to be upheld in france and want indian laws to be upheld in india. Indian laws don't allow for hurting religious sentiments, but they don't take suo moto cognisance unless people protest.

What indian laws have been broken? Penal code pls?

[CricketCartoons]

What indian laws have been broken? Penal code pls?

tazirat-e-hind dafa 295a, one of my favorites.

[CricketCartoons]

How ridiculous I think you need to look up the meaning yourself, its only considered controversial when members of a dominant culture appropriate from disadvantaged minority cultures

dominant culture doesn't have anything to do with numerical superiority. whites were minority in south africa, but were dominant.

[Zaz]

dominant culture doesn't have anything to do with numerical superiority. whites were minority in south africa, but were dominant.

Whites ran the show in south africa subjugating the native populations

Are muslims in power in india implementing anti hindu policies? Last i heard it was the extremist hindutva bjp party

[CricketCartoons]

Whites ran the show in south africa subjugating the native populations

Are muslims in power in india implementing anti hindu policies? Last i heard it was the extremist hindutva bjp party

Of course, muslims ruled hindus for 1000 years. Calling Hindu Resistance And Awakening Front as extremist is like calling the BLM supporters extremists. Not your fault, it is your muslim ruler privilege which stops you from understanding what we feel.