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  1. #1
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    What happens if this new look Pakistan Test squad fails?

    This squad for South Africa is arguably the best squad of players selected consisting of the best performers in domestic Cricket. Now what happens if the new seamers do just as bad as the ones in NZ and the batsmen replacing Haris Sohail Shan Masood fail just as bad?

    Are there any other top performing deserving domestic players left, or is time to accept that we might have a major talent shortage issue?


    Moeen & Root: The future of English Cricket.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricfan967 View Post
    This squad for South Africa is arguably the best squad of players selected consisting of the best performers in domestic Cricket. Now what happens if the new seamers do just as bad as the ones in NZ and the batsmen replacing Haris Sohail Shan Masood fail just as bad?

    Are there any other top performing deserving domestic players left, or is time to accept that we might have a major talent shortage issue?
    Its easier to accept defeat when a squad has been selected on merit and when the squad has inexperience, but atleast you have players who can develop in the future. Much harder to lose with experienced TTF's who have been failing for a while.

  3. #3
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    Contrary to what some people keep saying on this forum, there is no shortage of skills in Pakistan. The pool of players selected and even some of those not selected have a lot of promise. So even if we fail to see any progress, lack of skills would be the last reason in my mind. With Pakistan, the issue has always been around the structure/planning. The big question is, how do want to see the team and how are you planning to get there? The Kiwis arguably have a smaller pool of skilled players to pick from but their planning is always awesome which means they are regulary the top teams in world cricket.

  4. #4
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    Then Misbah and Waqar are gone

    Well, that's what one of the chairman guys of the PCB said.

  5. #5
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    If the best pool of players fails, so be it. Previously, it was not the best pool (Haris Sohail, for example, should have been nowhere near the Test side).

    Now, we can be satisfied that 1 of the 100 things wrong with Pakistan cricket is better - Saud Shakeel, for example, is likely to debut. Do not consider him some savior though.

    No one believes that this Pakistan team will ascend to number 1 in the rankings and challenge as the best team in the world, no matter which players you pick.

    We still must fix the other 100 things, one at a time. We’ve done some work on the first class system which looks fantastic, now we need to increase the quality of batting education at the U16 and U19 levels. We also need to revive club cricket and school cricket.

    Some of these things require money, so we must figure out how to keep generating revenue and increase the price of broadcasting deals, sponsorship offers, and of course, the viewership of PSL where a lot of our money comes from.

    There’s a lot wrong with Pakistan cricket, but our current administration headed by Wasim Khan is doing a fantastic job of fixing the basics. The team’s performance should not be expected to dramatically improve in the next year or even the next 5 years - we need to make sure the basics are right and accept the unfortunate reality that real change takes time.

    We are 20 years behind the trend and are now doing what we should have done in 2000. But better late than never.

  6. #6
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    In Pakistan, go back to the old one. The cycle continues.

  7. #7
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    I expect us to win in Karachi and win well.

  8. #8
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    Then what? Life goes on. Pakistan has no divine right to be a top team.

    If they don’t fail now, they will fail somewhere down the line. Pakistan will remain a bottom-half team in the same class as Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies no matter who they select. We are just not good enough anymore.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Then what? Life goes on. Pakistan has no divine right to be a top team.

    If they don’t fail now, they will fail somewhere down the line. Pakistan will remain a bottom-half team in the same class as Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies no matter who they select. We are just not good enough anymore.
    No body knows future!!! Any of these can be top team in 20-30 years. No team can stays top forever regardless with talent or facilities.

  10. #10
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    How are the pitches?

  11. #11
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    I think fans should lower their expectations as the domestic talent is mediocre at best (as we have seen for the last few years domestic players are hyped up and then turn out to be mediocre at international level). The only upcoming player whom I expect to make it big at international level is Kamran Ghulam, but it is hard to trust Pakistan domestic talent nowadays, so fingers crossed.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricfan967 View Post
    This squad for South Africa is arguably the best squad of players selected consisting of the best performers in domestic Cricket. Now what happens if the new seamers do just as bad as the ones in NZ and the batsmen replacing Haris Sohail Shan Masood fail just as bad?

    Are there any other top performing deserving domestic players left, or is time to accept that we might have a major talent shortage issue?
    It’s fine if they fail.

    If the team fails, you go down a generation and groom the players aged 19-24.

    But you also give Saud and Kamran more than one chance.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    It’s fine if they fail.

    If the team fails, you go down a generation and groom the players aged 19-24.

    But you also give Saud and Kamran more than one chance.
    Unless we remove Misbah Waqar our team will go down further. Wasim Khan and Mani needs to go as well.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shafi View Post
    No body knows future!!! Any of these can be top team in 20-30 years. No team can stays top forever regardless with talent or facilities.
    I do. Pakistan will never be a top team again.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I do. Pakistan will never be a top team again.
    Any good reasons?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    Any good reasons?
    Lol he says it wont happen during his lifetime, lets hope for Pakistan Cricket's sake that it doesn't last long

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Lol he says it wont happen during his lifetime, lets hope for Pakistan Cricket's sake that it doesn't last long
    Well hes saying never. We are taking steps in the right directions. For a start we are finally seeing young batsmens who actually have a basic batting technique regardless if they are good or not.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    Well hes saying never. We are taking steps in the right directions. For a start we are finally seeing young batsmens who actually have a basic batting technique regardless if they are good or not.
    The steps that Ehsan Mani, Wasim Khan are doing with our domestic cricket structure, high performance centres, coaches, the various broadcasting deals, the BCCI had started in 2000 and India only started to consistently show results 10 plus years later. It could take us even more time given that we have so many impediments that will serve to make any reforms painfully slow.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    The steps that Ehsan Mani, Wasim Khan are doing with our domestic cricket structure, high performance centres, coaches, the various broadcasting deals, the BCCI had started in 2000 and India only started to consistently show results 10 plus years later. It could take us even more time given that we have so many impediments that will serve to make any reforms painfully slow.
    Agreed. We are slowly moving in the right direction. At least we are not seeing the likes of Saad altaf break bowling records.

  20. #20
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    It is an important question because now we cannot go back to the selection blunders. The squad selections barring a couple of players is spot on and best performers from the QeA.

    If we end up losing 2-0 then just need to accept that we area mediocre team and not capable of competing against the big teams. Should look to organise series against SL, WI, Ban and Zim on a regular basis.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    Any good reasons?
    Multiple reasons. Our cricket culture is rotten to the core, and we are the most cricket ignorant nation on earth.

    Our players, ex-players, coaches, analysts, media people, fans etc. have no clue about cricket.

    Simply reducing FC teams will not change anything.

    Pakistan cricket had its peak from late 70s to early 2000s. The game has no whizzed past us and we couldn’t catch up.

    The game of cricket saw three periods of rapid development. In 1900s, 1960s and 1990s-2000s.

    These were the periods where the game changed drastically, and teams that could not keep up with the change were left behind.

    In order for Pakistan to catch up, other teams will have to stand still and give Pakistan time to achieve parity. Unfortunately, that will not happen.

    The only way Pakistan can catch up now is if they find a golden generation out of somewhere, with 4-5 players that are among the greatest cricketers in history, and it is something that looks well and truly beyond us.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Energy View Post
    It is an important question because now we cannot go back to the selection blunders. The squad selections barring a couple of players is spot on and best performers from the QeA.

    If we end up losing 2-0 then just need to accept that we area mediocre team and not capable of competing against the big teams. Should look to organise series against SL, WI, Ban and Zim on a regular basis.
    I dont think anyone expects anything from the squad, but people will happily accept losses with a young inexperienced squad which has atleast been selected on merit and if the group of players can grow, develop with time.

  23. #23
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    Give Misbah 5 more years.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Multiple reasons. Our cricket culture is rotten to the core, and we are the most cricket ignorant nation on earth.

    Our players, ex-players, coaches, analysts, media people, fans etc. have no clue about cricket.

    Simply reducing FC teams will not change anything.

    Pakistan cricket had its peak from late 70s to early 2000s. The game has no whizzed past us and we couldn’t catch up.

    The game of cricket saw three periods of rapid development. In 1900s, 1960s and 1990s-2000s.

    These were the periods where the game changed drastically, and teams that could not keep up with the change were left behind.

    In order for Pakistan to catch up, other teams will have to stand still and give Pakistan time to achieve parity. Unfortunately, that will not happen.

    The only way Pakistan can catch up now is if they find a golden generation out of somewhere, with 4-5 players that are among the greatest cricketers in history, and it is something that looks well and truly beyond us.
    What do we need to do so our cricket is not "rotten to core".
    What has fans got to do with us not ever becoming a top team?
    Redcing teams has already got rid of so many uncles.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    Give Misbah 5 more years.
    So you want us to be comepting with bermuda etc. Though good to see yoy back posting.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    So you want us to be comepting with bermuda etc. Though good to see yoy back posting.
    Misbah is the GOAT. Put some respect on his name. He deserves more time.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    Misbah is the GOAT. Put some respect on his name. He deserves more time.
    Yes lets not forget Waqar too. No doubt Misbah is a GOAT beghairat.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Multiple reasons. Our cricket culture is rotten to the core, and we are the most cricket ignorant nation on earth.

    Our players, ex-players, coaches, analysts, media people, fans etc. have no clue about cricket.

    Simply reducing FC teams will not change anything.

    Pakistan cricket had its peak from late 70s to early 2000s. The game has no whizzed past us and we couldn’t catch up.

    The game of cricket saw three periods of rapid development. In 1900s, 1960s and 1990s-2000s.

    These were the periods where the game changed drastically, and teams that could not keep up with the change were left behind.

    In order for Pakistan to catch up, other teams will have to stand still and give Pakistan time to achieve parity. Unfortunately, that will not happen.

    The only way Pakistan can catch up now is if they find a golden generation out of somewhere, with 4-5 players that are among the greatest cricketers in history, and it is something that looks well and truly beyond us.
    As much as I would like to disagree and wish this was not true , I’m afraid these are the facts based on ground realities and not just opinions anymore — the top international teams like Eng, Aus, India, South Africa , New Zealand have moved that far ahead of Pakistan in all disciplines of cricket , that as Mamoon rightly says you need a golden generation with 5-6 superstars to appear out of nowhere to give Pakistan a chance even to catch up... it’s not even funny to think how far India will be ahead of Pakistan cricket in 5-10 years time, if things continue to ‘progress’ (couldn’t think of another word to use, as improvement is too complimentary) in Pakistan cricket at the rate they have in the last twenty years.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    What do we need to do so our cricket is not "rotten to core".
    What has fans got to do with us not ever becoming a top team?
    Redcing teams has already got rid of so many uncles.
    Firstly, our fans need to stop this drama of unpredictability and cornered tigers mentality. Unpredictability is just a fancy term for inconsistency, and inconsistency is a function of mediocrity.

    Pakistani fans are the only fans in the world who would celebrate when cheerleaders like Nasser Hussain says stuff like “one minute down, next minute up” as if it is something to be proud of.

    We are the only team in the world that visits our former World Cup winning captain before every World Cup for his blessings, and we are the only country in the world where a cricket captain can use a World Cup victory to become the PM.

    We have a culture of hero-worshipping and individual glorification like no other.

    Kapil Dev did at 23 what Imran couldn’t until he was almost 40, and his World Cup victory in 1983 was a bigger cornered tigers moment than Imran’s 92, but India did not allow that World Cup to become the cornerstone of their cricket culture.

    The 1992 World Cup destroyed Pakistan’s cricket culture forever. I really do believe Pakistan would have been a more professional and efficient team had they won the 1987 World Cup instead.

    How many times would you hear our fans take pride in how Pakistan cricket is a “roller-coaster ride”. Before the World Cup, Sarfraz said that it is good that we are considered an unpredictable side. Why is it good? It sums up the mentality of our players and our fans.

    The first thing Pakistan can do to address it’s rotten culture is to completely whitewash the past and start from scratch.

    Forget 92 World Cup, forget Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Miandad etc., just think of yourself as a team that has just started to play cricket. To change our mentality, we will have to lose our pathetic identity, because it is the number 1 reason why we have failed to evolve with time.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Firstly, our fans need to stop this drama of unpredictability and cornered tigers mentality. Unpredictability is just a fancy term for inconsistency, and inconsistency is a function of mediocrity.

    Pakistani fans are the only fans in the world who would celebrate when cheerleaders like Nasser Hussain says stuff like “one minute down, next minute up” as if it is something to be proud of.

    We are the only team in the world that visits our former World Cup winning captain before every World Cup for his blessings, and we are the only country in the world where a cricket captain can use a World Cup victory to become the PM.

    We have a culture of hero-worshipping and individual glorification like no other.

    Kapil Dev did at 23 what Imran couldn’t until he was almost 40, and his World Cup victory in 1983 was a bigger cornered tigers moment than Imran’s 92, but India did not allow that World Cup to become the cornerstone of their cricket culture.

    The 1992 World Cup destroyed Pakistan’s cricket culture forever. I really do believe Pakistan would have been a more professional and efficient team had they won the 1987 World Cup instead.

    How many times would you hear our fans take pride in how Pakistan cricket is a “roller-coaster ride”. Before the World Cup, Sarfraz said that it is good that we are considered an unpredictable side. Why is it good? It sums up the mentality of our players and our fans.

    The first thing Pakistan can do to address it’s rotten culture is to completely whitewash the past and start from scratch.

    Forget 92 World Cup, forget Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Miandad etc., just think of yourself as a team that has just started to play cricket. To change our mentality, we will have to lose our pathetic identity, because it is the number 1 reason why we have failed to evolve with time.
    So its all to do with the 1992 world cup. Yes kapil achived something which couldnt till the age of 40 but the record imran had kapil could never achieve even if he had 100 lives.

  31. #31
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    I don’t mean to demean the success of Pakistani legends of the past, but the fact is that the success of Pakistani players in the past was circumstantial and not process-driven.

    These players polished their skills in County cricket while others practiced a “dark art” that is not feasible today. It was a different era and a different time.

    That is why we have to let go of the past and not try to relive it, something which we have tried to do over the past 20 years with very little success.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majid Khan View Post
    As much as I would like to disagree and wish this was not true , I’m afraid these are the facts based on ground realities and not just opinions anymore — the top international teams like Eng, Aus, India, South Africa , New Zealand have moved that far ahead of Pakistan in all disciplines of cricket , that as Mamoon rightly says you need a golden generation with 5-6 superstars to appear out of nowhere to give Pakistan a chance even to catch up... it’s not even funny to think how far India will be ahead of Pakistan cricket in 5-10 years time, if things continue to ‘progress’ (couldn’t think of another word to use, as improvement is too complimentary) in Pakistan cricket at the rate they have in the last twenty years.
    Things are not ideal but this is hyperbole. Australia has been exposed many times in the abscence of Warner, Smith and Pakistan beat Australia in UAE without them. New Zealand too will have issues when the likes of Williamson, Taylor, Bolt, Southee retire. South Africa suffered badly when they lost so many super stars and other players due to Kolpak.

    India is the only country with a big bench strength right now.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I do. Pakistan will never be a top team again.
    20-30 years are long time. Most of fans/former players/current players/media people will not be there. Iraq/Persia/Rome were ruling the World long ago. Where are they now?
    We may rise even 20-30, 40-50 years time or may be even 100 years later. Who knows? Only GOD knows

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    So its all to do with the 1992 world cup. Yes kapil achived something which couldnt till the age of 40 but the record imran had kapil could never achieve even if he had 100 lives.
    Imran was a better Test cricket than Kapil. There is no doubt. However, this is not about Imran and Kapil; this is about how the teams moved on from that point.

    India never adopted the cornered tigers and unpredictability mentality. The 83 World Cup commercial the sport in India and made the country fall in love like never before, and then they spent the next 15-20 years building a system.

    On the other hand, all we have done is try to replay history.

    Now it is too late to build a system. Other teams have also evolved and they will not stop for Pakistan to catch up. India found a window of opportunity and they took it.

    Apart from Pakistan’s decline, England were in doldrums in the 90s, West Indies was also in decline by late 90s, New Zealand were not very good. The game was changing quickly, and India used that window to catch up.

    Moreover, they also saw opportunity in T20 cricket like no team. Pakistan floated the idea, England acted on it, but India saw $$$ in it and created a monster called IPL that others are now trying hard to mimic with their low-budget imitations.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I don’t mean to demean the success of Pakistani legends of the past, but the fact is that the success of Pakistani players in the past was circumstantial and not process-driven.

    These players polished their skills in County cricket while others practiced a “dark art” that is not feasible today. It was a different era and a different time.

    That is why we have to let go of the past and not try to relive it, something which we have tried to do over the past 20 years with very little success.
    Do you mean black magic?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shafi View Post
    20-30 years are long time. Most of fans/former players/current players/media people will not be there. Iraq/Persia/Rome were ruling the World long ago. Where are they now?
    We may rise even 20-30, 40-50 years time or may be even 100 years later. Who knows? Only GOD knows
    Indeed only God knows and I hope I am wrong, but I am telling you what I think.

    I hope I can live until the 2050s so that I can come back to this place (hope it will still exist) and remind people of what I said in 2020.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Imran was a better Test cricket than Kapil. There is no doubt. However, this is not about Imran and Kapil; this is about how the teams moved on from that point.

    India never adopted the cornered tigers and unpredictability mentality. The 83 World Cup commercial the sport in India and made the country fall in love like never before, and then they spent the next 15-20 years building a system.

    On the other hand, all we have done is try to replay history.

    Now it is too late to build a system. Other teams have also evolved and they will not stop for Pakistan to catch up. India found a window of opportunity and they took it.

    Apart from Pakistan’s decline, England were in doldrums in the 90s, West Indies was also in decline by late 90s, New Zealand were not very good. The game was changing quickly, and India used that window to catch up.

    Moreover, they also saw opportunity in T20 cricket like no team. Pakistan floated the idea, England acted on it, but India saw $$$ in it and created a monster called IPL that others are now trying hard to mimic with their low-budget imitations.
    So we in doom and gloom and should pack our bags and forget about our cricket.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    So we in doom and gloom and should pack our bags and forget about our cricket.
    Exactly!!!!! Cricket should be limited to Ind, Aus, Eng, NZ and S Africa. Other teams should not be allowed to play with top 5 teams and in World Cup.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    So we in doom and gloom and should pack our bags and forget about our cricket.
    No, but manage your expectations to curb your disappointment. Our fans set themselves up for reality checks and then they act surprised.

    There is no shame in supporting a mediocre team and lowering expectations. Millions of sports fans around the world do it.

    Norwich City has among the most passionate fans in English football, even though they know that they will never win the PL or even play in UCL.

    Pakistan cricket will not evolve, but the fans can and should.

  40. #40
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    Chill. Wait a couple years. Pakistan aren’t ascending the ladder any time soon but the domestic changes that have been happening in addition to more changes coming in the next year (start of city cricket) will begin to take their effect.

    To be completely honest, we’ll have to wait 5-10 years at the very, very least and in the meanwhile rely on raw talent as usual. This isn’t bad as even without any real structure in place we’ve been pretty competitive in ICC events and even got to number 1 in Tests.

    While we should accept that we are unlikely to become a top 3 team any time soon, I refuse to subscribe to this self-deprecation mentality that many bring to this forum.

    We have our good moments even now. Enjoy them. And help constructively build this new era by bringing good talking points into the discussion - you’ll definitely, definitely have an impact and even during this short time I’ve been on PP I’ve been absolutely stunned by the way we’re able to interact with the likes of Wasim Khan via Saj bhai.

    On Twitter, I’ve been able to message suggestions to some top folks involved in Pakistan cricket who in turn have even taken action on these.

    If Pakistan’s “new look” Test squad fails, that’s fine. Give chances to the likes of Saud Shakeel and try to build a side than can punch above its weight. Help Shaheen and Babar truly cement their positions in world cricket. Bring in the use of data analysis and the likes of CricViz into the fold.

    That’s what we can do, should do, need to do, and to be honest, will likely do. A new era in Pakistan cricket is beginning, and it’s our first ever era where structure has been given any semblance of thought.

    Sit tight and let it take root.

  41. #41
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    Nothing is 100% perfect.

    Some players will do well and some players will do poorly. You will also learn more about team chemistry too (an underrated component in cricket).

    If the picks are merit-based, you keep the players doing well and replace the others with whoever is next in line.

    Let's say a player showed a bit of spark but didn't perform up to expectations, you keep him for the next series and give him a longer leash to do well. If the player is a complete dud and fails the eye test, you replace him while letting him know what to improve on for next season.

    A lot of the players coming in are in their prime/older and in form. This means they should hit the ground running if your domestic setup is any good.

    This type of system doesn't go wrong and will get the best out of your team as long as you're persistent. It might take 2-3 years, but it will happen especially with a good coach. This is exactly how NZ continues to field a good squad even though they are a small nation in terms of population.
    Last edited by kingusama92; 19th January 2021 at 15:09.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    No, but manage your expectations to curb your disappointment. Our fans set themselves up for reality checks and then they act surprised.

    There is no shame in supporting a mediocre team and lowering expectations. Millions of sports fans around the world do it.

    Norwich City has among the most passionate fans in English football, even though they know that they will never win the PL or even play in UCL.

    Pakistan cricket will not evolve, but the fans can and should.
    Whats the point if you don't have any hope? If you know you will bound to fail in your career path why persist with that.

    Same way PCB should be limited to few officials. No point appoint any coaches in local teams. Captains will choose who they want in the team, not worry about cricket pitches or stadiums or any fitness facilities...No need to train players. Just participate in matches.

  43. #43
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    Pakistan qualified for the 2017 CT by a whisker and ended up winning that tournament when they weren't even being mentioned by anyone.

    Lol, those saying this is a fluke unlikely to be ever repeated, would have said the same thing before that tournament as well

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Chill. Wait a couple years. Pakistan aren’t ascending the ladder any time soon but the domestic changes that have been happening in addition to more changes coming in the next year (start of city cricket) will begin to take their effect.

    To be completely honest, we’ll have to wait 5-10 years at the very, very least and in the meanwhile rely on raw talent as usual. This isn’t bad as even without any real structure in place we’ve been pretty competitive in ICC events and even got to number 1 in Tests.

    While we should accept that we are unlikely to become a top 3 team any time soon, I refuse to subscribe to this self-deprecation mentality that many bring to this forum.

    We have our good moments even now. Enjoy them. And help constructively build this new era by bringing good talking points into the discussion - you’ll definitely, definitely have an impact and even during this short time I’ve been on PP I’ve been absolutely stunned by the way we’re able to interact with the likes of Wasim Khan via Saj bhai.

    On Twitter, I’ve been able to message suggestions to some top folks involved in Pakistan cricket who in turn have even taken action on these.

    If Pakistan’s “new look” Test squad fails, that’s fine. Give chances to the likes of Saud Shakeel and try to build a side than can punch above its weight. Help Shaheen and Babar truly cement their positions in world cricket. Bring in the use of data analysis and the likes of CricViz into the fold.

    That’s what we can do, should do, need to do, and to be honest, will likely do. A new era in Pakistan cricket is beginning, and it’s our first ever era where structure has been given any semblance of thought.

    Sit tight and let it take root.
    Exactly!!!! But disappointed with Wasim Khan to back up Misbah and Waqar. We will slide further in future under them.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    No, but manage your expectations to curb your disappointment. Our fans set themselves up for reality checks and then they act surprised.

    There is no shame in supporting a mediocre team and lowering expectations. Millions of sports fans around the world do it.

    Norwich City has among the most passionate fans in English football, even though they know that they will never win the PL or even play in UCL.

    Pakistan cricket will not evolve, but the fans can and should.
    What did the fans expect something unrealistic. Preety much everyone predicted 2 -0 loss for us against New Zealand anything other then that would have been bonus.

    Majority of us fans accept that we are a medicore team right now comfortably below the likes of Aus, India, NZ and SA but things can improve.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Chill. Wait a couple years. Pakistan aren’t ascending the ladder any time soon but the domestic changes that have been happening in addition to more changes coming in the next year (start of city cricket) will begin to take their effect.

    To be completely honest, we’ll have to wait 5-10 years at the very, very least and in the meanwhile rely on raw talent as usual. This isn’t bad as even without any real structure in place we’ve been pretty competitive in ICC events and even got to number 1 in Tests.

    While we should accept that we are unlikely to become a top 3 team any time soon, I refuse to subscribe to this self-deprecation mentality that many bring to this forum.

    We have our good moments even now. Enjoy them. And help constructively build this new era by bringing good talking points into the discussion - you’ll definitely, definitely have an impact and even during this short time I’ve been on PP I’ve been absolutely stunned by the way we’re able to interact with the likes of Wasim Khan via Saj bhai.

    On Twitter, I’ve been able to message suggestions to some top folks involved in Pakistan cricket who in turn have even taken action on these.

    If Pakistan’s “new look” Test squad fails, that’s fine. Give chances to the likes of Saud Shakeel and try to build a side than can punch above its weight. Help Shaheen and Babar truly cement their positions in world cricket. Bring in the use of data analysis and the likes of CricViz into the fold.

    That’s what we can do, should do, need to do, and to be honest, will likely do. A new era in Pakistan cricket is beginning, and it’s our first ever era where structure has been given any semblance of thought.

    Sit tight and let it take root.
    Excellent post.

  47. #47
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    The rookies will be blasted, the management gives an excuse that they're playing a relatively new side. More changes to the team... rinse and repeat

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Chill. Wait a couple years. Pakistan aren’t ascending the ladder any time soon but the domestic changes that have been happening in addition to more changes coming in the next year (start of city cricket) will begin to take their effect.

    To be completely honest, we’ll have to wait 5-10 years at the very, very least and in the meanwhile rely on raw talent as usual. This isn’t bad as even without any real structure in place we’ve been pretty competitive in ICC events and even got to number 1 in Tests.

    While we should accept that we are unlikely to become a top 3 team any time soon, I refuse to subscribe to this self-deprecation mentality that many bring to this forum.

    We have our good moments even now. Enjoy them. And help constructively build this new era by bringing good talking points into the discussion - you’ll definitely, definitely have an impact and even during this short time I’ve been on PP I’ve been absolutely stunned by the way we’re able to interact with the likes of Wasim Khan via Saj bhai.

    On Twitter, I’ve been able to message suggestions to some top folks involved in Pakistan cricket who in turn have even taken action on these.

    If Pakistan’s “new look” Test squad fails, that’s fine. Give chances to the likes of Saud Shakeel and try to build a side than can punch above its weight. Help Shaheen and Babar truly cement their positions in world cricket. Bring in the use of data analysis and the likes of CricViz into the fold.

    That’s what we can do, should do, need to do, and to be honest, will likely do. A new era in Pakistan cricket is beginning, and it’s our first ever era where structure has been given any semblance of thought.

    Sit tight and let it take root.
    This sets it out well.

    Clearly, following India's incredible victory at the Gabba, it's an existential moment for Pakistani fans. We, even with our 'legends' from the 80s and 90s have never ever been close to what India have done now twice in the last 5 years, by bearing Australia away.

    Comparison

    I think Mamoon is patently wrong about fans expectations right now. We don't think Pakistan are an amazing team. What we do expect is our team to be competitive atleast and play with assertiveness.

  49. #49
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    I think the difference in the standard of cricket between Pakistan and the top tier teams is not just purely on cricketing skills and ability with bat / ball — but mentally in terms of resilience and mental toughness, coping with pressure, cricketing intelligence and iQ, strategic thinking and planning to neutralise your opponent’s strengths — Pakistan cricket players in the modern era look like amateurs in this area , almost like they are missing some “education” that players from other teams seem to have...

    This is one of the reasons why Pakistan are such a poor chasing team in ODI cricket , these guys probably struggle with the strategy, mathematical calculations involved and just see a big mountain that is impossible to climb , never mind handling the pressure that comes with it.

    Sports science and overall mental and physical fitness has clearly given the ‘western’ teams and now India a real advantage over others.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfPakBreakfast View Post
    This sets it out well.

    Clearly, following India's incredible victory at the Gabba, it's an existential moment for Pakistani fans. We, even with our 'legends' from the 80s and 90s have never ever been close to what India have done now twice in the last 5 years, by bearing Australia away.

    Comparison

    I think Mamoon is patently wrong about fans expectations right now. We don't think Pakistan are an amazing team. What we do expect is our team to be competitive atleast and play with assertiveness.
    And these are wrong expectations as well. Nothing will change in the future. We will not improve. The fans who are hopeful and optimistic today will be the ones to be left disappointed later.

  51. #51
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    nothing will happen and it will most likely fail given the quality of domestic cricket and the players its producing. We need to be patient for a couple of years and only after that we should expect good results.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    And these are wrong expectations as well. Nothing will change in the future. We will not improve. The fans who are hopeful and optimistic today will be the ones to be left disappointed later.
    Hope and optimism is a good thing, I’m not against it - but as I’ve said in another thread, I am as optimistic about Pakistan cricket team becoming a top team as I am about the Pakistan football or hockey teams achieving the same.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    I dont think anyone expects anything from the squad, but people will happily accept losses with a young inexperienced squad which has atleast been selected on merit and if the group of players can grow, develop with time.
    Development is the issue. If a young player manages to score one hundred or take a 5 wicket haul they will think they have achieved everything. We have to agree that there isn't any learning or development that will happen under the PCB umbrella, so the onus is only, and only, on the player.

    I am still expecting Pakistan to win the series or draw 1-1, not 0-0 because this is not a vintage SA team. The players, wickets, conditions will all be in the favour of Pakistan. Our domestic bullies should be able to see us through this. If they cannot, then there is a serious doubt about the type of players our system is producing.

  54. #54
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    Cant keep chopping and changing sqaud with huge wholesale changes ever series.

    Pick a pool of players like wasim has and given them time to perform or not perform. We cant develop a test side with no patients.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Chill. Wait a couple years. Pakistan aren’t ascending the ladder any time soon but the domestic changes that have been happening in addition to more changes coming in the next year (start of city cricket) will begin to take their effect.

    To be completely honest, we’ll have to wait 5-10 years at the very, very least and in the meanwhile rely on raw talent as usual. This isn’t bad as even without any real structure in place we’ve been pretty competitive in ICC events and even got to number 1 in Tests.

    While we should accept that we are unlikely to become a top 3 team any time soon, I refuse to subscribe to this self-deprecation mentality that many bring to this forum.

    We have our good moments even now. Enjoy them. And help constructively build this new era by bringing good talking points into the discussion - you’ll definitely, definitely have an impact and even during this short time I’ve been on PP I’ve been absolutely stunned by the way we’re able to interact with the likes of Wasim Khan via Saj bhai.

    On Twitter, I’ve been able to message suggestions to some top folks involved in Pakistan cricket who in turn have even taken action on these.

    If Pakistan’s “new look” Test squad fails, that’s fine. Give chances to the likes of Saud Shakeel and try to build a side than can punch above its weight. Help Shaheen and Babar truly cement their positions in world cricket. Bring in the use of data analysis and the likes of CricViz into the fold.

    That’s what we can do, should do, need to do, and to be honest, will likely do. A new era in Pakistan cricket is beginning, and it’s our first ever era where structure has been given any semblance of thought.

    Sit tight and let it take root.
    Good post. With the new domestic structure and subsequent improvements in future, I can see our fortunes changing within next 3-4 years. Quality of cricket has gone down internationally with the advent of T20 cricket (making it too easy for batsmen), so its not that difficult to catch up to top teams with a professional setup.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Indeed only God knows and I hope I am wrong, but I am telling you what I think.

    I hope I can live until the 2050s so that I can come back to this place (hope it will still exist) and remind people of what I said in 2020.
    Mamoonstradamus

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal_103 View Post
    Mamoonstradamus
    He’s not predicting anything. He’s hoping - it’s the first time I’ve seen him explicitly say he’s hoping for Pakistan to fail.

    That’s just... shocking. You want Pakistan to fail just so you can tell strangers on the internet “I told you so”? Wow.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    Good post. With the new domestic structure and subsequent improvements in future, I can see our fortunes changing within next 3-4 years. Quality of cricket has gone down internationally with the advent of T20 cricket (making it too easy for batsmen), so its not that difficult to catch up to top teams with a professional setup.
    IA. Need more A tours (goal should be 10 FC games per year), revival of city cricket, followed by revival of club cricket, followed by revival of school cricket.

    In addition, having Mohammad Yousuf work on the balance and footwork of every incoming U16, U19 and Shaheens batsman over the next 5 years starting with Haider Ali.

  59. #59
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    LOL what happens? First We 'll be beaten at home too.
    Second, nothing will happen.

    Few changes in management or top names (they ll come back in 1-2 yrs) to calm people down.

    Looking at the current televised games, I really feel for our cricket. The talent I see is just pathetic. We need People like Dravid who takes charge of U16, U19 setup and produce quality cricketers in 3-4 yrs time.
    Unfortunately No one ll do that, people are doing their "job" in Pcb and our cricket setup. They are happy to keep their job, noone cares about pak cricket which is going downhill.

    Yes we will win a game here n there but Long run we ll remain in bottom of the standings

  60. #60
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    PCB will reassign chief selector role to misbah. Misbah will then select himself as captain.


    Serious Sport has nothing to do with fair play... it is war minus the shooting.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I do. Pakistan will never be a top team again.
    We won't be a good test team for a while until we make our home into a practical fortress.

    We're still a decent white-ball outfit IMO, just need to make sure that we utilize our players properly.

    I know a lot of posters of Shadab are going to talk about his supreme batting ability, but he needs to go and prove it in domestic cricket. International cricket is not a playground for you to learn new things, it's where you execute the skills you already have.

    If we can strike the lottery with either Abdullah or Haider, or another U19 product, who can play as a batsman in all formats, then the future for us looks brighter.

    Right now, it's incredibly dull.

  62. #62
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    What happens?

    -Failure in the test series against SA

    SACK THE COACHES

    -PSL (like drugs to make u forget ur failures)

    APPOINT “WORLD CLASS” COACHES
    Play to the gallery

    -SA LOIs (might win 1 off 6 matches & say it’s a difficult tour and has new management in place)
    -Zimbabwe series (a “new” start and a monstrous season for stats)
    -ENG LOIs (might win 2 off 6 matches against ENG B and say we competed really well in alien conditions)
    -West Indies series (might compete well)
    -Afghan LOIs (another stat booster)
    -Failures in T20I matches at home against ENG & NZ
    -Failure at the 2021 T20 WC


    BABAR “STEPS DOWN” AS A T20I CAPTAIN
    SHADAB AN “AGGRESSIVE” CAPTAIN for e new start


    -Bangladesh series (a “new” start and stats booster)
    -Hosts West Indies (continues “new era”)
    -Failure against AUS at home( “one” bad series)
    -SL series (will do well, look it was just one bad series against AUS)
    - Failures in the two full series at home against ENG and NZ just before the WC
    -Failures at the 2022 2022 WC

    E MANI STEPS DOWN
    W KHAN BACK TO THE UK
    BABAR “STEPS DOWN” FROM ODI and TEST CAPTAINCY
    SACK THE COACH and MANAGEMENT
    NEW

    SHADAB NEW ALL FORMAT CAPTAIN



    A new captain, a new management, new board members and a “new” start

    THESE THINGS CONTINUE

    A new PM in August 2023
    - Another set of new Board Members

    - Failure at the 2023 ODI WC in India in Oct 2023

    - SACK SHADAB FROM CAPTAINCY

    And they lived happily forever, the story continues

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    Cant keep chopping and changing sqaud with huge wholesale changes ever series.

    Pick a pool of players like wasim has and given them time to perform or not perform. We cant develop a test side with no patients.
    Exactly some people like Dr. Numan Niaz and Rashid Latif have next to no patience which is why i'm glad they ain't selectors. They are crying over the exclusion of Asad Shafiq.

    We must give this whole squad the whole year and see how they do, no wholesale changes, back your guys and see how they go. Most of the domestic guys have no experience away so they must be given confidence to perform, for some of these domestic guys it will be an uplifter to be selected and who knows if they use this as motivation.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    We won't be a good test team for a while until we make our home into a practical fortress.

    We're still a decent white-ball outfit IMO, just need to make sure that we utilize our players properly.

    I know a lot of posters of Shadab are going to talk about his supreme batting ability, but he needs to go and prove it in domestic cricket. International cricket is not a playground for you to learn new things, it's where you execute the skills you already have.

    If we can strike the lottery with either Abdullah or Haider, or another U19 product, who can play as a batsman in all formats, then the future for us looks brighter.

    Right now, it's incredibly dull.
    I think that is a practical approach.

    We need to become very good at home and then the confidence can build some what.

    I agree about keeping expectations in check and trying to make most out of what talent we have by ensuring suitable pitches at home, ensuring merit based selection and making FC season more competetive.

    We can try to organize FC season at a time when there are no international commitments or atleast part of it should not clash with international commitments

    Doing all this we still wont improve overnight so key thing is to be patient and keep expectations in check

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babar_Azam_fan View Post
    What happens?

    -Failure in the test series against SA

    SACK THE COACHES

    -PSL (like drugs to make u forget ur failures)

    APPOINT “WORLD CLASS” COACHES
    Play to the gallery

    -SA LOIs (might win 1 off 6 matches & say it’s a difficult tour and has new management in place)
    -Zimbabwe series (a “new” start and a monstrous season for stats)
    -ENG LOIs (might win 2 off 6 matches against ENG B and say we competed really well in alien conditions)
    -West Indies series (might compete well)
    -Afghan LOIs (another stat booster)
    -Failures in T20I matches at home against ENG & NZ
    -Failure at the 2021 T20 WC


    BABAR “STEPS DOWN” AS A T20I CAPTAIN
    SHADAB AN “AGGRESSIVE” CAPTAIN for e new start


    -Bangladesh series (a “new” start and stats booster)
    -Hosts West Indies (continues “new era”)
    -Failure against AUS at home( “one” bad series)
    -SL series (will do well, look it was just one bad series against AUS)
    - Failures in the two full series at home against ENG and NZ just before the WC
    -Failures at the 2022 2022 WC

    E MANI STEPS DOWN
    W KHAN BACK TO THE UK
    BABAR “STEPS DOWN” FROM ODI and TEST CAPTAINCY
    SACK THE COACH and MANAGEMENT
    NEW

    SHADAB NEW ALL FORMAT CAPTAIN



    A new captain, a new management, new board members and a “new” start

    THESE THINGS CONTINUE

    A new PM in August 2023
    - Another set of new Board Members

    - Failure at the 2023 ODI WC in India in Oct 2023

    - SACK SHADAB FROM CAPTAINCY

    And they lived happily forever, the story continues
    Haha good post. I’m bookmarking this to refer back to in coming months.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    He’s not predicting anything. He’s hoping - it’s the first time I’ve seen him explicitly say he’s hoping for Pakistan to fail.

    That’s just... shocking. You want Pakistan to fail just so you can tell strangers on the internet “I told you so”? Wow.
    I am not hoping, I am predicting. Believe me or not, it would actually please me if Pakistan cricket proves me wrong and develops into an elite team.

    What is the worst that will happen? People will make fun of me on this forum for a while, that is it.

    The mediocrity of Pakistan cricket disgusts me to no end, and I would happily get proved wrong.

    Unfortunately, I do not think Pakistan has the capacity to become a top team and I do not think it will find the means and the method to get there, hence the prediction.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    We won't be a good test team for a while until we make our home into a practical fortress.

    We're still a decent white-ball outfit IMO, just need to make sure that we utilize our players properly.

    I know a lot of posters of Shadab are going to talk about his supreme batting ability, but he needs to go and prove it in domestic cricket. International cricket is not a playground for you to learn new things, it's where you execute the skills you already have.

    If we can strike the lottery with either Abdullah or Haider, or another U19 product, who can play as a batsman in all formats, then the future for us looks brighter.

    Right now, it's incredibly dull.
    I have to disagree. It might sound strange, but Test cricket is still Pakistan’s strongest format and the only format where Pakistan can realistically beat some big teams.

    We are a terrible ODI team that has absolutely no chance of beating Australia, England or India in an ODI series in any conditions. We might win a one-off ODI, but over the course of a series, these teams will beat us every single time.

    However, in Test cricket, Pakistan has a very strong chance of continuing to win home series against Australia and England if it prepares turning wickets and picks two spinners.

    I won’t mention India because they will beat us black and blue in any conditions in Test cricket.

    In a nutshell, Pakistan:

    - Extremely poor ODI team with the odd fluke performance every now and then.

    - Average T20I team against full-strength big teams and good T20I team against underpowered big teams....except India.

    - embarrassing Test team away from home especially against the big teams. Decent home team that can beat the likes of England, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa etc. in the right conditions with the right tactics.

  68. #68
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    No need to be afraid to fail with a new-look team.

    You can't better otherwise.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Chill. Wait a couple years. Pakistan aren’t ascending the ladder any time soon but the domestic changes that have been happening in addition to more changes coming in the next year (start of city cricket) will begin to take their effect.

    To be completely honest, we’ll have to wait 5-10 years at the very, very least and in the meanwhile rely on raw talent as usual. This isn’t bad as even without any real structure in place we’ve been pretty competitive in ICC events and even got to number 1 in Tests.

    While we should accept that we are unlikely to become a top 3 team any time soon, I refuse to subscribe to this self-deprecation mentality that many bring to this forum.

    We have our good moments even now. Enjoy them. And help constructively build this new era by bringing good talking points into the discussion - you’ll definitely, definitely have an impact and even during this short time I’ve been on PP I’ve been absolutely stunned by the way we’re able to interact with the likes of Wasim Khan via Saj bhai.

    On Twitter, I’ve been able to message suggestions to some top folks involved in Pakistan cricket who in turn have even taken action on these.

    If Pakistan’s “new look” Test squad fails, that’s fine. Give chances to the likes of Saud Shakeel and try to build a side than can punch above its weight. Help Shaheen and Babar truly cement their positions in world cricket. Bring in the use of data analysis and the likes of CricViz into the fold.

    That’s what we can do, should do, need to do, and to be honest, will likely do. A new era in Pakistan cricket is beginning, and it’s our first ever era where structure has been given any semblance of thought.

    Sit tight and let it take root.
    How will city cricket be? Will it feed into the 6 Quaid-e-Azam teams?
    Last edited by The Viper; 20th January 2021 at 06:20.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I have to disagree. It might sound strange, but Test cricket is still Pakistan’s strongest format and the only format where Pakistan can realistically beat some big teams.

    We are a terrible ODI team that has absolutely no chance of beating Australia, England or India in an ODI series in any conditions. We might win a one-off ODI, but over the course of a series, these teams will beat us every single time.

    However, in Test cricket, Pakistan has a very strong chance of continuing to win home series against Australia and England if it prepares turning wickets and picks two spinners.

    I won’t mention India because they will beat us black and blue in any conditions in Test cricket.

    In a nutshell, Pakistan:

    - Extremely poor ODI team with the odd fluke performance every now and then.

    - Average T20I team against full-strength big teams and good T20I team against underpowered big teams....except India.

    - embarrassing Test team away from home especially against the big teams. Decent home team that can beat the likes of England, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa etc. in the right conditions with the right tactics.
    We have far more potential in the white-ball format as opposed to the test format, because in our white-ball team, we haven't axed 7 of our main players in one series.

    The lack of ODI performances is mostly because we don't play enough series. India invites Sri Lanka, West Indies, and other teams like Australia to their home to play ODI cricket so that they stay as a dominating team. In ODI cricket, conditions marginally affect the result unless you go to a place where the white-ball gets a ton of swing or seam.

    As a T20 team, I think that with the inclusion of the right players, we can be a top team. For one, we need to get rid of the likes of Rizwan, and bring actual, aggressive players. We have a PSL coming up, so I'll make my final judgement of the team after that, where I can see the performances of our domestic players.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    I think that is a practical approach.

    We need to become very good at home and then the confidence can build some what.

    I agree about keeping expectations in check and trying to make most out of what talent we have by ensuring suitable pitches at home, ensuring merit based selection and making FC season more competetive.

    We can try to organize FC season at a time when there are no international commitments or atleast part of it should not clash with international commitments

    Doing all this we still wont improve overnight so key thing is to be patient and keep expectations in check
    That scheduling of FC tournaments is extremely important. We don't want to play test matches during a time when the FC season is going on, so that our batsmen and bowlers can get the maximum in-game training before the series, and we can identify where they might have problems to fix during the practice games in the country we tour.

  72. #72
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    If they fail, they fail.

    You lot should have faith. It takes time for a new team to gel. I personally think it's a good selection and will do well at home atleast.

  73. #73
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    I do agree with posters saying the first step for our team, batsmen, bowlers developing confidence and belief is to play loads of home cricket where they can pile on big runs or take wickets and for Pakistan to consistently win at home so that they can carry some confidence on SENA tours.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    We have far more potential in the white-ball format as opposed to the test format, because in our white-ball team, we haven't axed 7 of our main players in one series.

    The lack of ODI performances is mostly because we don't play enough series. India invites Sri Lanka, West Indies, and other teams like Australia to their home to play ODI cricket so that they stay as a dominating team. In ODI cricket, conditions marginally affect the result unless you go to a place where the white-ball gets a ton of swing or seam.

    As a T20 team, I think that with the inclusion of the right players, we can be a top team. For one, we need to get rid of the likes of Rizwan, and bring actual, aggressive players. We have a PSL coming up, so I'll make my final judgement of the team after that, where I can see the performances of our domestic players.
    It is a myth that we don’t play enough ODI matches.

    Since the 2015 World Cup, we have played 15 bilateral ODIs against the greatest ODI team of this era, England. I think only Australia have played more bilateral ODIs against England in this period.

    We have also played enough ODIs against Australia.

    We haven’t played India but we should be thankful for that.

    The reason why we are so terrible in bilateral ODIs is because we do not have proper impact ODI players. Simply playing more matches will not change that. More matches will result in more defeats.

    In Test cricket, our success in home matches pretty much entirely depends on Yasir, who is a world class Test spinner in Asian conditions. As long as he is there, Pakistan will have the tools to beat Australia, England, New Zealand and South Africa at home provided that they prepare turning wickets.

    We do not have quality batsmen for T20Is either and this is one of the reasons why we are so bad in ODIs. In this era, if most of your T20Is players are not good for ODIs and vice-versa, you will not have a strong white ball outfit.

    For most successful teams, the ODI and T20I squads are very similar barring a couple of differences, for example Malan coming in for Root in England and Labuschagne sitting out for Australia.

    PSL exposes the lack of talent in Pakistan every year. Hardly any local batsman makes his worth count and if they do, they are exposed in international cricket.

    Shahid Afridi at 45 still looks one of the strongest players in the format which shows how bare the cupboard is.

    The likes of Khushdil impressed last year and he turned out to be a total failure in international cricket.

    As far as Rizwan is concerned, he is the best WK batsman in Pakistan regardless of the format. There is no better option than him at this point.

    Pakistan is one of the least talent and least skilled teams out there. We do not have batsmen who can average 30+ in T20Is and 40+ in ODIs are very healthy strike rates. Only Babar fits that bill, and he is not very high impact either.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    Chill. Wait a couple years. Pakistan aren’t ascending the ladder any time soon but the domestic changes that have been happening in addition to more changes coming in the next year (start of city cricket) will begin to take their effect.

    To be completely honest, we’ll have to wait 5-10 years at the very, very least and in the meanwhile rely on raw talent as usual. This isn’t bad as even without any real structure in place we’ve been pretty competitive in ICC events and even got to number 1 in Tests.

    While we should accept that we are unlikely to become a top 3 team any time soon, I refuse to subscribe to this self-deprecation mentality that many bring to this forum.

    We have our good moments even now. Enjoy them. And help constructively build this new era by bringing good talking points into the discussion - you’ll definitely, definitely have an impact and even during this short time I’ve been on PP I’ve been absolutely stunned by the way we’re able to interact with the likes of Wasim Khan via Saj bhai.

    On Twitter, I’ve been able to message suggestions to some top folks involved in Pakistan cricket who in turn have even taken action on these.

    If Pakistan’s “new look” Test squad fails, that’s fine. Give chances to the likes of Saud Shakeel and try to build a side than can punch above its weight. Help Shaheen and Babar truly cement their positions in world cricket. Bring in the use of data analysis and the likes of CricViz into the fold.

    That’s what we can do, should do, need to do, and to be honest, will likely do. A new era in Pakistan cricket is beginning, and it’s our first ever era where structure has been given any semblance of thought.

    Sit tight and let it take root.
    Good post.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  76. #76
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    There is no going back, there is still more changes to come, Abid, AA and Fawad will gone within a year. The bowling will also need to change- we simply cant take 20 wickets, only SAS looks to have any real future. Looking over your shoulder isnt an option because the guys that have failed repeatedly arent going to suddenly become better players.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    It is a myth that we don’t play enough ODI matches.

    Since the 2015 World Cup, we have played 15 bilateral ODIs against the greatest ODI team of this era, England. I think only Australia have played more bilateral ODIs against England in this period.

    We have also played enough ODIs against Australia.

    We haven’t played India but we should be thankful for that.

    The reason why we are so terrible in bilateral ODIs is because we do not have proper impact ODI players. Simply playing more matches will not change that. More matches will result in more defeats.

    In Test cricket, our success in home matches pretty much entirely depends on Yasir, who is a world class Test spinner in Asian conditions. As long as he is there, Pakistan will have the tools to beat Australia, England, New Zealand and South Africa at home provided that they prepare turning wickets.

    We do not have quality batsmen for T20Is either and this is one of the reasons why we are so bad in ODIs. In this era, if most of your T20Is players are not good for ODIs and vice-versa, you will not have a strong white ball outfit.

    For most successful teams, the ODI and T20I squads are very similar barring a couple of differences, for example Malan coming in for Root in England and Labuschagne sitting out for Australia.

    PSL exposes the lack of talent in Pakistan every year. Hardly any local batsman makes his worth count and if they do, they are exposed in international cricket.

    Shahid Afridi at 45 still looks one of the strongest players in the format which shows how bare the cupboard is.

    The likes of Khushdil impressed last year and he turned out to be a total failure in international cricket.

    As far as Rizwan is concerned, he is the best WK batsman in Pakistan regardless of the format. There is no better option than him at this point.

    Pakistan is one of the least talent and least skilled teams out there. We do not have batsmen who can average 30+ in T20Is and 40+ in ODIs are very healthy strike rates. Only Babar fits that bill, and he is not very high impact either.
    When he was in form, Fakhar Zaman was a true impact player. He knew how to take on bowlers and used to put us in good situations when he opened. However, we lost a very good player due to shortness of confidence, the inability to address technical issues, and obvious temperamental issues.

    What you have mentioned is correct, we don't have the big guns who can change games when they play. Historically, we have never had big guns in ODI and T20I cricket, because our bowling attack was excellent. When the likes of Hasan Ali, Mohammad Amir, Junaid Khan, and others were at their peak around that 2017 phase, our lack of batting talent hardly got exposed. It was only until I'd say late 2018 when we really failed in a few series, we had some absolute shockers and it should have been at that point where we tried to bring in a batsman or two from domestic cricket. Instead, we brought in a very injury prone Haris Sohail as a makeshift solution to our weak middle order.

    What's so ironic is that our problems seem to be shifting from one spectrum of batting to the other, constantly. In test cricket our openers were horrible at a time where our ODI openers were excellent. The bulk of our runs in test cricket comes from our middle order, but in ODI, it's almost the opposite. If our top 3 doesn't fire, we automatically lose the game, whereas in test matches, if our top 3 doesn't fire, our middle order puts up a very commendable fight.

    The statistics about the number of ODI games we have played are eye-opening, because if you look from 2017, there have been very marginal changes to the team. Whereas, you go to 2017 with India and look now, you will see that they've changed some very noticeable aspects of their game, along with the player pool they are backing. We failed to identify talented players in 2017, when we were in a very good position to bring in players to strengthen the team, and that has haunted us till now. We thought that our team won because of the quality of the players we had, and boy were we wrong. Technical faults, bowling discipline, and other problems kept coming up and look where we are now.

    I'm sure you'll agree with the fact that it was our lack of planning and player development that has left us at the position we are in at the moment.

    You mentioned that there was a lack of talent in the closet, and for the sake of our own cricket, I hope that you are wrong. But you are clearly right to mention that since Afridi left, we have had nobody with the guts and ability, much less the passion to hit the long ball well, and do it over and over again.

    Our future depends on the hope that a few of these players can come good for us:

    Haider Ali
    Abdullah Shafique
    Azam Khan
    Khushdil Shah
    Zeeshan Ashraf
    Danish Aziz
    Zeeshan Malik

    If we can get two to really perform, and look their best, that's the only way I see this team moving forward. Sadly, the list is very short, and it's a matter of luck that we win the lottery with one of these players.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    When he was in form, Fakhar Zaman was a true impact player. He knew how to take on bowlers and used to put us in good situations when he opened. However, we lost a very good player due to shortness of confidence, the inability to address technical issues, and obvious temperamental issues.

    What you have mentioned is correct, we don't have the big guns who can change games when they play. Historically, we have never had big guns in ODI and T20I cricket, because our bowling attack was excellent. When the likes of Hasan Ali, Mohammad Amir, Junaid Khan, and others were at their peak around that 2017 phase, our lack of batting talent hardly got exposed. It was only until I'd say late 2018 when we really failed in a few series, we had some absolute shockers and it should have been at that point where we tried to bring in a batsman or two from domestic cricket. Instead, we brought in a very injury prone Haris Sohail as a makeshift solution to our weak middle order.

    What's so ironic is that our problems seem to be shifting from one spectrum of batting to the other, constantly. In test cricket our openers were horrible at a time where our ODI openers were excellent. The bulk of our runs in test cricket comes from our middle order, but in ODI, it's almost the opposite. If our top 3 doesn't fire, we automatically lose the game, whereas in test matches, if our top 3 doesn't fire, our middle order puts up a very commendable fight.

    The statistics about the number of ODI games we have played are eye-opening, because if you look from 2017, there have been very marginal changes to the team. Whereas, you go to 2017 with India and look now, you will see that they've changed some very noticeable aspects of their game, along with the player pool they are backing. We failed to identify talented players in 2017, when we were in a very good position to bring in players to strengthen the team, and that has haunted us till now. We thought that our team won because of the quality of the players we had, and boy were we wrong. Technical faults, bowling discipline, and other problems kept coming up and look where we are now.

    I'm sure you'll agree with the fact that it was our lack of planning and player development that has left us at the position we are in at the moment.

    You mentioned that there was a lack of talent in the closet, and for the sake of our own cricket, I hope that you are wrong. But you are clearly right to mention that since Afridi left, we have had nobody with the guts and ability, much less the passion to hit the long ball well, and do it over and over again.

    Our future depends on the hope that a few of these players can come good for us:

    Haider Ali
    Abdullah Shafique
    Azam Khan
    Khushdil Shah
    Zeeshan Ashraf
    Danish Aziz
    Zeeshan Malik

    If we can get two to really perform, and look their best, that's the only way I see this team moving forward. Sadly, the list is very short, and it's a matter of luck that we win the lottery with one of these players.
    muhammed haris,rohail nazir,saud shakeel,

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricfan967 View Post
    This squad for South Africa is arguably the best squad of players selected consisting of the best performers in domestic Cricket. Now what happens if the new seamers do just as bad as the ones in NZ and the batsmen replacing Haris Sohail Shan Masood fail just as bad?

    Are there any other top performing deserving domestic players left, or is time to accept that we might have a major talent shortage issue?
    So what if we fail?

    We will get up and try harder. This is the way how it works.

    You get beaten and floored, but you get up and start again. There is no other way.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    muhammed haris,rohail nazir,saud shakeel,
    Personally, I don't think that Saud Shakeel is going to turn out to be a good ODI/T20 player for us, but he can be a good test match player.

    Rohail Nazir is also important, and I think that we should play him instead of Rizwan on the ODI team, just to see what he's made of and what he can provide, though I believe that if Azam Khan can improve his fitness even more, he can be a really important addition to our ODI team.

    I haven't seen enough of Mohammad Haris to put him on that list, and he doesn't have good numbers to support his inclusion.

    A final list of the players I'll be looking out for will be:

    Haider Ali (aggressive, powerful, some good strokeplay as well, will be a good inclusion for ODI/T20I.)
    Abdullah Shafique (fantastic strokeplay but short of confidence, will be a good player in all formats if things go right.)
    Zeeshan Ashraf (has the ability to play aggressively and positively, however, numbers don't go in his favor.)
    Zeeshan Malik (some pretty decent FC stats but a lack of consistency, can be a useful player if he comes good.)

    Azam Khan (explosive and powerful, exactly what we are missing in our MO in T20 and ODI.)
    Rohail Nazir (good player around the wicket, has potential, and can be a good choice for a white-ball keeper.)
    Danish Aziz (looks to be a good player, has performed well in chases and just need to see him play the whole Pakistan Cup to get a decent sample size of the type of player he is.)
    Khushdil Shah (powerful and was given the role of finisher but could not make ends meet, technical issues and over-dependence on leg-side shots.)

    Again, for our future in white-ball cricket, one of these players has to come out well. The sad part is that among all of them, I can name technical and temperamental flaws already, so it's a sign that they aren't finished products by any means.

    I'm placing my faith in Danish Aziz, I think that he has a really good chance to show what he can do for KK and right now, in the Pakistan Cup, he has a good platform to show some performances. I also think that Haider Ali, despite having some really noticeable problems, can be a useful player for us in T20 cricket. This PSL, he should really aim for the stars, and try to get a good average and SR. If he can get a 35-40 average with a 135+ SR in this edition of the PSL, that will really go a long way for him. Azam Khan needs to improve his fitness even more so that he can really put up some better performances, because he's averaged below 30 right now, and I won't take him on the team with that type of an average.

    Again, this PSL will tell us a lot about some of the youngsters, except for Abdullah Shafique, who needs to make the most of domestic cricket to tell his own story.


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