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  1. #1
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    Not only is the sky not falling, this Australian Test team is really good!

    Not only is the sky not falling, this Australian Test team is really good!

    Given the hysterics this summer, if you were none the wiser, you could be mistaken for thinking Australia was anchored to the bottom of the world rankings, getting beaten by an innings every match, embarrassing the country with their on-field performances.
    The summer of 2020-21 will be remembered for a number of truly amazing reasons, but it may have also been the season that the cricket fraternity completely lost their marbles.

    The overreactions, hot takes and panic button-pushing has been plentiful, and has created the ill-informed illusion that our team is woefully underperforming, with sweeping changes needed across the board.

    A few people need to drink a cup of green tea, put on some Enya, get a hug from a loved one, lie down, and calm the farm a touch. Or a lot.

    Letís take a deep breath and rationally unpack things.

    Australia has three batsmen ranked in the top ten in the world, with Steve Smith second, Marnus Labuschagne fourth, and David Warner tenth.

    When you include promising youngsters Will Pucovski and Cameron Green Ė who have both demonstrated the potential to succeed at Test cricket Ė you have the makings of a sensational top six, with just the number five spot a major concern.

    When we move to the bowling ranks, Australia has the best attack in the world, with all three quicks ranked in the top ten: Pat Cummins first, Josh Hazlewood fifth and Mitchell Starc at eight.

    Meanwhile, Nathan Lyon is rated by many as the best spin bowler in the world, though currently ranked behind Ravi Ashwin. Any way you look at it, Lyon is world-class, as is the entire quartet.

    Then we move to the last position in the XI, currently occupied by Tim Paine. A lot has been said about the Tasmanian, but heís the best pure wicketkeeper in Australia and itís not even close.

    So Australia has a very good top six (when healthy), including three batsmen ranked in the top ten in the world. The bowling attack is rated the best in the world. And the best wicketkeeper in the country takes the gloves.

    UmÖ and the sky is falling? Why? Because we lost one series to an incredibly gutsy Indian side?

    To be fair and balanced, itís worth diving into things.

    On the batting, our opening partnerships have been diabolical, so I can understand why itís a concern. However, when everyone is fit, thereís no issue. Warner and Pucovski excite me as an opening duo, and I canít see any reason not to pick those two for the immediate future.

    At three and four come our best two bats. Labuschagne hasnít been in great nick this series, but has still scored heavily, which is a great sign. Smith started the series with a few low scores, before showing his class. This part of the middle order picks itself for some time yet.

    Green at six averaged 34 in the series, and showed enormous potential. At the moment heís a little bit Ďblock or boundaryí, but as he learns to rotate the strike, and have more gentle shots in his armoury, heíll be a fantastic asset. I certainly wouldnít be dropping him.

    That leaves the number five spot, for which Travis Head and Matt Wade simply havenít done enough to make the position their own via sheer weight of runs. Even more troubling is that they both keep getting out the same way. This is definitely an area of concern and the one spot Iíll allow the Negative Nancys to have legitimate issues.

    Personally, Iíd pick Glenn Maxwell or Moises Henriques here and not stress at all. Both are good bats who deserve an extended chance, while also adding some variety to the bowling, and bringing good fielding to the side. In fact Ďgood fieldingí is an understatement in describing what Maxi brings to the table.

    In the bowling ranks, the Ďbig fourí looked a little tired at times this summer, but Cummins and Hazlewood were absolutely brilliant. In fact, theyíve produced some of the best fast-bowling Iíve ever seen.

    In hindsight, a rest for Starc at some stage may have been warranted, but itís also a big call to change the best bowing attack in the world, so you can understand why selectors were gun-shy.

    Lyon wasnít at his best either, but he was also unlucky, with several catches not going to hand, particularly in Sydney. In any case, his success over a sustained period of time buys him some leeway.

    So adding a fast bowler into the rotation is certainly something to look at.

    For reasons that bemuse me, Paine is a polarising selection in the team. Iím sure many will disagree, but Paine is an excellent gloveman and a good bat.

    Heís not perfect, as none of us are, even at his primary skill of keeping. Yet people act like wicketkeepers never drop catches. Spoiler alert: they do. Heís had some (infrequent) bad days behind the stumps, but even Bradman got out for a duck.

    His batting does lack the dynamism of Adam Gilchrist and other dashers, but thereís more than one way to score runs in Test cricket. Heís got the second-highest average of any Australian wicketkeeper in history, and his Test average is one run lower than Alex Careyís first-class average Ė the player often offered up as the natural alternative to Paine as a keeper-batsman.

    If you want Paine dropped because of his keeping or batting, itís a flawed case.

    When it comes to his captaincy, he has come under fire Ė some of it warranted, some of it ridiculous. However, the skipper is always a lightning rod for criticism when things arenít going well, which leads to the lazy narrative of Ďbad tacticianí being presented, when often the real issue is poor execution.

    However, Iíll meet the critics halfway and admit that at Paineís age, itís worth having a succession plan for the captaincy, along with a strong opinion on who the next keeper should be.

    So after all doom and gloom, Australia needs to find a five, add a fast bowler to the rotation, and have an eye on the next keeper and captain.

    Thatís not a cause for too much panic.

    Australia lost one series against an Indian team that deserve credit for playing great, hard, tough cricket.

    Without making excuses, itís also worth remembering that we shouldnít underestimate the impact Ďbubble lifeí for many months may have had.

    By all means learn from this experience, get better from it, and make any necessary changes from both A personnel and tactical point-of-view. May I humbly suggest to simply bowl at the stumps more?!

    However, itís important to keep things in perspective: this remains a very good cricket team, with the potential to get even better.

    https://www.theroar.com.au/2021/01/2...s-really-good/

    -------------------------------

    I agree with Author's view.

    If you have 6 players in the top 10 with one more world-class spinner then the team has to be really one of the best. Aus needs to make at most 1-2 changes and not go for too many changes as the reaction to this series defeat.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  2. #2
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    Nice article to calm down the fans.

    Meanwhile, Nathan Lyon is rated by many as the best spin bowler in the world, though currently ranked behind Ravi Ashwin.
    This bit is ludicrous though.

  3. #3
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    Man the comment section on that article
    lol- asking to improve shield over BBL .. lol haha every fan is angry about T20 tournaments

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Nice article to calm down the fans.


    This bit is ludicrous though.
    Sure, but Lyon is a world-class spinner with the other 3 pacers ranked in the top 10. That's a gun attack.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Nice article to calm down the fans.


    This bit is ludicrous though.
    To be honest i felt the same but Ashwin proved me wrong this tour. He was fired up to prove a point because his white ball career is over. Lyon got the turn but never looked threatening to me.

  6. #6
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    Australia are 2nd best team in the world and beating the second best team in their own backyard against their best side is a legendary win.

    If I think of all the series wins that has happened in Australia in last 40-50 years, I doubt any of the Australian side was better than the current one.
    This side had 7 world class players and a couple of young players with plenty of potential.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Australia are 2nd best team in the world and beating the second best team in their own backyard against their best side is a legendary win.

    If I think of all the series wins that has happened in Australia in last 40-50 years, I doubt any of the Australian side was better than the current one.
    This side had 7 world class players and a couple of young players with plenty of potential.
    That's why it will be foolish to overreact to change too much due to series loss here.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

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    No one ever said the sky was falling lmaooo. As long as Australia play at home unlike Pakistan and are allowed to have long test series with the top teams, they will continue to be a force. Outside Australia however I think they won't be as potent for the near future.

  9. #9
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    Buffet, let's stop acting like this Aus batting line up isn't mediocre.

    You have quality in Warner, Labu and Smith, but after that there is literally nothing and if 2 if them aren't scoring Aus aren't going to put up totals.

    It's not like us where we can have Latham, Kane and Taylor fail and have our middle and middle to lower order step up and score runs.

    Just because they beat up on us doesn't change that reality, they could probably beat us with a state team. We have a mental block against them.
    Last edited by Aman; 20th January 2021 at 07:56.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Buffet, let's stop acting like this Aus batting line up isn't mediocre.

    You have quality in Warner, Labu and Smith, but after that there is literally nothing and if 2 if them aren't scoring Aus aren't going to put up totals.

    It's not like us where we can have Latham, Kane and Taylor fail and have our middle and middle to lower order step up and score runs.

    Just because they beat up on us doesn't change that reality, they could probably beat us with a state team. We have a mental block against them.
    Thatís 3 batsmen in top 10.. and they were playing at home

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Buffet, let's stop acting like this Aus batting line up isn't mediocre.

    You have quality in Warner, Labu and Smith, but after that there is literally nothing and if 2 if them aren't scoring Aus aren't going to put up totals.

    It's not like us where we can have Latham, Kane and Taylor fail and have our middle and middle to lower order step up and score runs.

    Just because they beat up on us doesn't change that reality, they could probably beat us with a state team. We have a mental block against them.
    Most good teams will have three world class batsman only. Ofcourse not as good as the Australian team between 1995-07 but better than any Australian team since then.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Most good teams will have three world class batsman only. Ofcourse not as good as the Australian team between 1995-07 but better than any Australian team since then.
    Even still, Aus have been woeful with the bat. Losing 20 wickets to a Z list Indian attack with no frontline bowlers is rock bottom.

    None of them are first change bowlers, all of them were second change bowlers.

    That's humiliating as it gets and speaks volumes about the quality of the Australian batting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  13. #13
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    Spicier pitches backfired on them. Over the last 10 plus years, their go-to strategy has been rolling out flat decks and out batting the opposition.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnaveen1980 View Post
    Spicier pitches backfired on them. Over the last 10 plus years, their go-to strategy has been rolling out flat decks and out batting the opposition.
    Was it spicer tracks? Would explain how bowlers who aren't world class or known for their ability to move the ball around were able to pick up 20 wickets.

    Otherwise on the usual tracks Aus would put up scores of 500 or 600 for 4 against a fourth strength bowling line up consisting of second and third change bowlers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Even still, Aus have been woeful with the bat. Losing 20 wickets to a Z list Indian attack with no frontline bowlers is rock bottom.

    None of them are first change bowlers, all of them were second change bowlers.

    That's humiliating as it gets and speaks volumes about the quality of the Australian batting.
    I agree it is a humiliating loss for the Aussies. A couple of those bowlers in the final test were not even test standard either.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    I agree it is a humiliating loss for the Aussies. A couple of those bowlers in the final test were not even test standard either.
    Dude, think about it - none of them are first change bowlers - none of them are strike bowlers. I doubt anyone other than Siraj even reaches 10 Test caps.

    It's like India losing a series at home to CdG, Bennett and Santner.
    Last edited by Aman; 20th January 2021 at 08:10.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Buffet, let's stop acting like this Aus batting line up isn't mediocre.
    They are not mediocre at all at home.

    Look at what they did to other teams in the last 3 years,

    • NZ bowlers gave 42 runs per wicket.
    • Pakistani bowlers gave 41 runs per wicket.
    • SL bowlers gave 58 runs per wicket.
    • The same team retained Ashes in Eng.


    It's rare to have two batsmen averaging 60+ in the same test side. Then Warner is really dangerous at home. Others have scored at home as well.

    What do you want? You can't have 6 top-class batsmen. Most good batting sides will have some good and some average batsmen.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    They are not mediocre at all at home.

    Look at what they did to other teams in the last 3 years,

    • NZ bowlers gave 42 runs per wicket.
    • Pakistani bowlers gave 41 runs per wicket.
    • SL bowlers gave 58 runs per wicket.
    • The same team retained Ashes in Eng.


    It's rare to have two batsmen averaging 60+ in the same test side. Then Warner is really dangerous at home. Others have scored at home as well.

    What do you want? You can't have 6 top-class batsmen. Most good batting sides will have some good and some average batsmen.
    All that's doing is highlight how reliant they are on 2-3 players. If those players don't fire they have nothing.

    There's a reason why Aussies are livid with this loss, it's humilating to be rolled over at home to a fourth string bowling attack consisting of players who are only on the team in the first place because everyone else is injured and they can't call anyone else over.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  19. #19
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    Good analysis.
    I would add one aspect that probably is overlooked :- Cameron Green's presence and performance at Gully.
    This was one outstanding performance and he took some gr8 catches and stopped some good hits.
    I guess since Joel Garner at gully he might be one that really makes this position his own. (there could be others since garner, I might have forgotton)
    Re, the others yeah - the team that got defeated was truly a fantastic one and 9/10 times would beat any team esp in aus conditions. Its just they ran into a more resilient, determined and hungry team that just would not lie down. I mean - just think -we were leading in Adelaide and if not for 45 mins of madness/sensational bowling/fielding/freakiness take your pick, this series would have taken a different turn.
    Re - Tim paine - this guy truly has tried his hardest to turn around the perception and -ve connotations surriounding the aus team especially the abuse, personal attacks, swearing etc part post sandpaper.
    Look at all the series played since then, Aus did not cross many lines at all. Lets leave the juvenile bit of 'come to gabba we'll sort u out bit' - its an aberration and not the standard fare. Lets give credit where its due.
    Last edited by sweep_shot; 20th January 2021 at 08:16.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Dude, think about it - none of them are first change bowlers - none of them are strike bowlers. I doubt anyone other than Siraj even reaches 10 Test caps.

    It's like India losing a series at home to CdG, Bennett and Santner.
    Players are judged based on what they have produced overall. They are not judged just based on 2 great tests or 2 poor tests. Over all good performance is reflected in 6 players being in the top 10 rank.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Players are judged based on what they have produced overall. They are not judged just based on 2 great tests or 2 poor tests. Over all good performance is reflected in 6 players being in the top 10 rank.
    You're really not getting this are you?

    Yes, we all know Warner, Smith and Labu are quality - it's what around than i.e. the bulk of the batting which is offering nothing.

    People are not idiots, there's a reason why so many are talking about their batting atm. Obviously something is wrong when you lose 20 wickets at home to a 4th string bowling line up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    They are not mediocre at all at home.

    Look at what they did to other teams in the last 3 years,

    • NZ bowlers gave 42 runs per wicket.
    • Pakistani bowlers gave 41 runs per wicket.
    • SL bowlers gave 58 runs per wicket.
    • The same team retained Ashes in Eng.


    It's rare to have two batsmen averaging 60+ in the same test side. Then Warner is really dangerous at home. Others have scored at home as well.

    What do you want? You can't have 6 top-class batsmen. Most good batting sides will have some good and some average batsmen.
    Others are not even average, and of they scored previously vs other teams like pak it says more about those pathetic bowling attacks than these batsman quality. They are just rubbish bar those three, more like two because Warner missed first two test and in last two was half fit, and India should actually have won that first test if not for that freak 36 collapse. There is no way any batting line up worth his salt should have rolled over like Oz did vs this India Z bowling.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    All that's doing is highlight how reliant they are on 2-3 players. If those players don't fire they have nothing.

    There's a reason why Aussies are livid with this loss, it's humilating to be rolled over at home to a fourth string bowling attack consisting of players who are only on the team in the first place because everyone else is injured and they can't call anyone else over.
    Pretty much every team relies on key 2-3 batsmen. Here they had key 4 bowlers playing as well. That's leaving a spot for 3-4 other players. Some of them look good and they will do fine.

    No one is saying that Aus shouldn't be disappointed with the losing series here, but there is no need to make big changes.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Pretty much every team relies on key 2-3 batsmen. Here they had key 4 bowlers playing as well. That's leaving a spot for 3-4 other players. Some of them look good and they will do fine.

    No one is saying that Aus shouldn't be disappointed with the losing series here, but there is no need to make big changes.
    There's relying on players and then there's not contributing anything.

    India, Aus, England do not rely on 2-3 players. They need them to set platforms for big totals but others are able to step up and contribute. With Aus there is 2-3 players while the rest offer little to nothing to the team.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    You're really not getting this are you?

    Yes, we all know Warner, Smith and Labu are quality - it's what around than i.e. the bulk of the batting which is offering nothing.

    People are not idiots, there's a reason why so many are talking about their batting atm. Obviously something is wrong when you lose 20 wickets at home to a 4th string bowling line up.
    They are also judged based on how they have hammered everyone else when playing at home. They have smashed everyone else.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Pretty much every team relies on key 2-3 batsmen. Here they had key 4 bowlers playing as well. That's leaving a spot for 3-4 other players. Some of them look good and they will do fine.

    No one is saying that Aus shouldn't be disappointed with the losing series here, but there is no need to make big changes.
    Yeah no need of they just want to trash only rubbish teams like Pak and Sri lanka, vs top teams like India and even Poms will give bigger phainty if they keep this batting line up, good luck for next Ashes and now I have doubts even about their bowling quality, starc and Lyon looks kinda finished or sorted out in their own den and Cummins and Hazelwood are very good but maybe not that good or maybe they had to bowl vs much better prepared batsman then their own dross. Their mighty bowling records will take hit if they don't play much vs hopeless batting line ups like ours. Overall they need atleast better keeper batsman, second opener maybe Puck can be that, and one more decent middle order batsman plus replacement of starc and need to groom Lyon replacement as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeshan547 View Post
    Yeah no need of they just want to trash only rubbish teams like Pak and Sri lanka, vs top teams like India and even Poms will give bigger phainty if they keep this batting line up, good luck for next Ashes and now I have doubts even about their bowling quality, starc and Lyon looks kinda finished or sorted out in their own den and Cummins and Hazelwood are very good but maybe not that good or maybe they had to bowl vs much better prepared batsman then their own dross. Their mighty bowling records will take hit if they don't play much vs hopeless batting line ups like ours. Overall they need atleast better keeper batsman, second opener maybe Puck can be that, and one more decent middle order batsman plus replacement of starc and need to groom Lyon replacement as well.
    @Aman @Buffet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeshan547 View Post
    Their bowling is still class, but India have shown how to play them. Wear down their pacers and pile on the runs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    MR Marsh - averaged 106 in 2017/18 series
    SE Marsh - averaged 74 in the same series
    Khawaja - averaged 47 in the same series
    Paine averaged 48 against NZ
    Head averaged 42 against NZ


    I am not listing others who scored against Pakistan, SL et because you will start saying that that does not count.

    Yes, they are not great, but they have smashed everyone else at home so far. Let's wait and see if they do the same to others before pushing a panic button.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Their bowling is still class, but India have shown how to play them. Wear down their pacers and pile on the runs.
    It was mighty hard to do and Indians did both times due to Pujara tiring them out. He took so many blows. It's not possible for most batsmen.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

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    Look I don't disagree with the article too much, but losing at home to a heavily depleted Indian side is one of Australian cricket's lowest moments. There's every reason for alarm bells to be ringing, even if on paper and rankings things appear to be okay.

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    So the narrative has changed from ,

    "Australia were without Warner, Smith, Bancroft, Pattinson etc" in 2018-19 to

    "Australia batsmen are not good enough apart from Warner, Smith and Labu. Also Starc is trash. Lyon is overrated. Paine is a journeyman etc" in 2020-21.


    Guess India need to beat a team with 6 worldclass batsmen, 1 ATG wicket keeper and 4 world class bowleres.

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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    Look I don't disagree with the article too much, but losing at home to a heavily depleted Indian side is one of Australian cricket's lowest moments. There's every reason for alarm bells to be ringing, even if on paper and rankings things appear to be okay.
    Everyone hypes up Cam Green but he's shown to be really average so far. Nowhere near the hype of best prospect since Ponting.

    Quote Originally Posted by WengerOut View Post
    So the narrative has changed from ,

    "Australia were without Warner, Smith, Bancroft, Pattinson etc" in 2018-19 to

    "Australia batsmen are not good enough apart from Warner, Smith and Labu. Also Starc is trash. Lyon is overrated. Paine is a journeyman etc" in 2020-21.


    Guess India need to beat a team with 6 worldclass batsmen, 1 ATG wicket keeper and 4 world class bowleres.
    Nah, India are better no doubt than Aus. Everyone knows that, but doesn't mean this Aus batitng line up is any good.

    You know somethings up when Aus is losing 20 wickets to a fourth string Indian bowling line up with zero strike bowlers.
    Last edited by Aman; 20th January 2021 at 08:39.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    Look I don't disagree with the article too much, but losing at home to a heavily depleted Indian side is one of Australian cricket's lowest moments. There's every reason for alarm bells to be ringing, even if on paper and rankings things appear to be okay.
    Everyone hypes up Cam Green but he's shown to be really average so far. Nowhere near the hype of best prospect since Ponting.

    Quote Originally Posted by WengerOut View Post
    So the narrative has changed from ,

    "Australia were without Warner, Smith, Bancroft, Pattinson etc" in 2018-19 to

    "Australia batsmen are not good enough apart from Warner, Smith and Labu. Also Starc is trash. Lyon is overrated. Paine is a journeyman etc" in 2020-21.


    Guess India need to beat a team with 6 worldclass batsmen, 1 ATG wicket keeper and 4 world class bowleres.
    Nah, India are better no doubt than Aus and their batting in Aus was admirable against the best bowling attack in the world. Everyone knows that, but doesn't mean this Aus batitng line up is any good.

    You know somethings up when Aus is losing 20 wickets to a fourth string Indian bowling line up with zero strike bowlers.

    If India lost a series at home in the same fashion, Indians would be saying the same thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Everyone hypes up Cam Green but he's shown to be really average so far. Nowhere near the hype of best prospect since Ponting.

    Nah, India are better no doubt than Aus. Everyone knows that, but doesn't mean this Aus batitng line up is any good.

    You know somethings up when Aus is losing 20 wickets to a fourth string Indian bowling line up with zero strike bowlers.
    That shows depth of India's resources. There is nothing up with Australia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeshan547 View Post
    Yeah no need of they just want to trash only rubbish teams like Pak and Sri lanka, vs top teams like India and even Poms will give bigger phainty if they keep this batting line up, good luck for next Ashes and now I have doubts even about their bowling quality, starc and Lyon looks kinda finished or sorted out in their own den and Cummins and Hazelwood are very good but maybe not that good or maybe they had to bowl vs much better prepared batsman then their own dross. Their mighty bowling records will take hit if they don't play much vs hopeless batting line ups like ours. Overall they need atleast better keeper batsman, second opener maybe Puck can be that, and one more decent middle order batsman plus replacement of starc and need to groom Lyon replacement as well.
    They retained Ashes in Eng and before that thrashed Eng at home. They thrashed NZ last summer.

    Their bowling is top class. Last time Ind won there and some fans started douting Aus bowling, and then the same bowling did very well later. Bowling did not do that well against India again and we are hearing the same talk about Aus bowling.

    Batting is heavily dependent on 3 players, but when all said and done, they have the best test batsman and the best test bowler playing for Aus. Both will go down as ATG. It's not a weak team by any stretch.

    Yes, if you are comparing with the great Aus side, then they are not close. But that's too high a benchmark.

    They can certainly get better at batting. Not arguing that.
    Last edited by Buffet; 20th January 2021 at 08:43.


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    Quote Originally Posted by BaankeJi View Post
    That shows depth of India's resources. There is nothing up with Australia.
    Great, use that attack in England and NZ and see what happens.

    No excuses for being heavily depleted since India has such great depth.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WengerOut View Post
    So the narrative has changed from ,

    "Australia were without Warner, Smith, Bancroft, Pattinson etc" in 2018-19 to

    "Australia batsmen are not good enough apart from Warner, Smith and Labu. Also Starc is trash. Lyon is overrated. Paine is a journeyman etc" in 2020-21.


    Guess India need to beat a team with 6 worldclass batsmen, 1 ATG wicket keeper and 4 world class bowleres.
    Let's talk about derailing a thread, who the hell is doubting India strength or victory, we just discussing the holes in Oz and they were shown bare like never before. If they recall had great bowling attack and top 3 batsman how could you lose to India Z, maybe that's statistical freak that too after that 36 all out. Just don't make sense, future will settle this debate and prove whether this Oz team is actually any good vs Top teams or only good enough to smash no hopers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Everyone hypes up Cam Green but he's shown to be really average so far. .
    It's early days for him and anyway, Ponting is too high a benchmark for anyone.


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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeshan547 View Post
    Let's talk about derailing a thread, who the hell is doubting India strength or victory, we just discussing the holes in Oz and they were shown bare like never before. If they recall had great bowling attack and top 3 batsman how could you lose to India Z, maybe that's statistical freak that too after that 36 all out. Just don't make sense, future will settle this debate and prove whether this Oz team is actually any good vs Top teams or only good enough to smash no hopers.
    Who are the top teams? They beat Eng, smashed NZ last time.


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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    It's early days for him and anyway, Ponting is too high a benchmark for anyone.
    He didn't impress me this series, feel like Wade, Burns and him were 3 wasted batting spots.

    Surely they have more seasoned players who could score runs for them? Swear Aus use to have so many experienced FC players who they could plug in and they would do a job for them.

    Nowadays you have mediocre players like Wade who have no right to be playing Test cricket getting caps for Aus as specialist batsmen.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeshan547 View Post
    Let's talk about derailing a thread, who the hell is doubting India strength or victory, we just discussing the holes in Oz and they were shown bare like never before. If they recall had great bowling attack and top 3 batsman how could you lose to India Z, maybe that's statistical freak that too after that 36 all out. Just don't make sense, future will settle this debate and prove whether this Oz team is actually any good vs Top teams or only good enough to smash no hopers.
    Which are top teams according to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    Which are top teams according to you?
    4 top teams atm, us, India, Aus and England.

    Any of them can beat each other depending on venue. None of them is dominant and each of them are flawed.

    4 average teams.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  44. #44
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    I am not saying that Aus should not try to introduce some new batsmen and bowlers. But a team having 6-7 world class players is a very good team. Sure, they can get better. Just because they lost to India, it does not mean that suddenly they became a poor team. They do have a weakness in relying too much on few players and hopefully, SA can exploit it. We will see.


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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    He didn't impress me this series, feel like Wade, Burns and him were 3 wasted batting spots.

    Surely they have more seasoned players who could score runs for them? Swear Aus use to have so many experienced FC players who they could plug in and they would do a job for them.

    Nowadays you have mediocre players like Wade who have no right to be playing Test cricket getting caps for Aus as specialist batsmen.
    I will give Green a long rope.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    I am not saying that Aus should not try to introduce some new batsmen and bowlers. But a team having 6-7 world class players is a very good team. Sure, they can get better. Just because they lost to India, it does not mean that suddenly they became a poor team. They do have a weakness in relying too much on few players and hopefully, SA can exploit it. We will see.
    SA will need to win a Test as I can't see there being 2 draws in SA.

    Will need to hope your bowlers have a great Test and are able to nick a match as Aus are very capable of beating this SA team 3-0.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Decent contention. Only makes India look even better as they defeated the best possible XI Aus could put on the ground.

    However I have to laugh at the contention that Starc and Lyon are world class. They simply are not and this series has proved it. Both are chokers who failed to step up when needed the most.

    Starc basically bowled like a rookie bowler in the IPL and was treated as such. At one point, he had given away some 62 runs in 12 overs. This was a 5th day pitch remember and he completely failed to either take wickets or control run rate.

    Lyon was terrible as well. Didnt use the rough and cracks on the pitch at all and was outbowled comfortably by Ashwin, who definitely has proved why he is the best spinner in the world now. Even Sundar outbowled him lol.

    Aussies do have a very good batting lineup with Warner, Smith and Labu all of whom are brilliant at least on home pitches.

    But I disagree with rankings being the only criteria, it is colored by them making easy runs and taking wickets against substandard touring test sides like Sri Lanka or Pakistan visiting them.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    SA will need to win a Test as I can't see there being 2 draws in SA.

    Will need to hope your bowlers have a great Test and are able to nick a match as Aus are very capable of beating this SA team 3-0.
    Don't have too high hopes, but if all 3 tests are in Perth then SA can pull something.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    4 top teams atm, us, India, Aus and England.

    Any of them can beat each other depending on venue. None of them is dominant and each of them are flawed.

    4 average teams.
    Yup that's how it is, and we will see how they play in next series vs rest three specially away and also on home, there is no guaranteed wins now.

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    Once again I pity teams that are visiting Australia next. If anyone thinks that Oz attack is weak or its batmen bar Smith is rubbish, they will be there for a nasty surprise.

    We will see regular scores of 500+ and regular innings wins once again. Itís like Arsenal beating Barcelona 2-1 coz of inspired performance while Messi was a bit off-colour and suddenly every team including Mohun Bagan, Lahore sporting and Wellington Wallabies fancying their chances against the weak over the hill Barcelona.
    Last edited by Babbar; 20th January 2021 at 08:57.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    Decent contention. Only makes India look even better as they defeated the best possible XI Aus could put on the ground.

    However I have to laugh at the contention that Starc and Lyon are world class. They simply are not and this series has proved it. Both are chokers who failed to step up when needed the most.

    Starc basically bowled like a rookie bowler in the IPL and was treated as such. At one point, he had given away some 62 runs in 12 overs. This was a 5th day pitch remember and he completely failed to either take wickets or control run rate.

    Lyon was terrible as well. Didnt use the rough and cracks on the pitch at all and was outbowled comfortably by Ashwin, who definitely has proved why he is the best spinner in the world now. Even Sundar outbowled him lol.

    Aussies do have a very good batting lineup with Warner, Smith and Labu all of whom are brilliant at least on home pitches.

    But I disagree with rankings being the only criteria, it is colored by them making easy runs and taking wickets against substandard touring test sides like Sri Lanka or Pakistan visiting them.
    And smashing NZ and Eng...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Don't have too high hopes, but if all 3 tests are in Perth then SA can pull something.
    Wait? It's in Aus?... Damn, that's pretty much 3-0. I thought the series was in SA lol..


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babbar View Post
    Once again I pity teams that are visiting Australia next. If anyone thinks that Oz attack is weak or its batmen bar Smith is rubbish, they will be there for a nasty surprise.

    We will see regular scores of 500+ and regular innings wins once again. It’s like Arsenal beating Barcelona 2-1 coz of inspired performance while Messi was a bit off-colour and suddenly every team including Mohun Bagan, Lahore sporting and Wellington Wallabies fancying their chances against the weak over the hill Barcelona.
    Really bad analogy.

    Have you seen Barcelona these days? They're struggling for top 4 and got recently got hammered 8-2 to Bayern. They very much are an average team today.

    I say this as a Barcelona fan.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Babbar View Post

    We will see regular scores of 500+ and regular innings wins once again. Itís like Arsenal beating Barcelona 2-1 coz of inspired performance while Messi was a bit off-colour and suddenly every team including Mohun Bagan, Lahore sporting and Wellington Wallabies fancying their chances against the weak over the hill Barcelona.
    lmaoo

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    4 top teams atm, us, India, Aus and England.

    Any of them can beat each other depending on venue. None of them is dominant and each of them are flawed.

    4 average teams.
    The discussion was about Aus at home due to them losing this home series. I don't think Aus will have an issue beating any other teams. They did beat Eng and NZ already. SA is going there. We are not counting SL/Pak etc ....So no one else is left.

    If they can beat all teams at home comfortably then we can't use India's example to say that they became poor suddenly at home.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    4 top teams atm, us, India, Aus and England.

    Any of them can beat each other depending on venue. None of them is dominant and each of them are flawed.

    4 average teams.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeshan547 View Post
    Yup that's how it is, and we will see how they play in next series vs rest three specially away and also on home, there is no guaranteed wins now.
    And you guys think Aus would lose to NZ , Eng?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Babbar View Post
    Once again I pity teams that are visiting Australia next. If anyone thinks that Oz attack is weak or its batmen bar Smith is rubbish, they will be there for a nasty surprise.

    We will see regular scores of 500+ and regular innings wins once again. Itís like Arsenal beating Barcelona 2-1 coz of inspired performance while Messi was a bit off-colour and suddenly every team including Mohun Bagan, Lahore sporting and Wellington Wallabies fancying their chances against the weak over the hill Barcelona.
    Yeah, but India has now beaten them twice on succession so your analogy is not exactly correct. They are a superior team to Aus. Can whitewash at home and can win in Aus.

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    But are they Aussie players so high in the rankings just because we play twice as much Test cricket as most other countries?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Wait? It's in Aus?... Damn, that's pretty much 3-0. I thought the series was in SA lol..
    Aus is supposed to tour SA, but due to Covid, there is talk about shifting it to Perth or UAE. Perth will produce a much better cricket if it happens. I suspect the series may get canceled.


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    Quote Originally Posted by wrongun View Post
    But are they Aussie players so high in the rankings just because we play twice as much Test cricket as most other countries?
    That's a great question.

    Some posters start saying that it's a paper ranking, but these rankings did not come out of a vacuum. It's simply a reflection of how well players did in the last few years.
    Last edited by Buffet; 20th January 2021 at 09:08.


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    Quote Originally Posted by wrongun View Post
    But are they Aussie players so high in the rankings just because we play twice as much Test cricket as most other countries?
    Last three years (rankings I think are over 3 years)

    Eng 34 tests
    Aus 26 tests
    India 26 tests
    SL 25 tests
    NZ 22 tests
    SA 21 tests
    PAK 21 tests.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrongun View Post
    But are they Aussie players so high in the rankings just because we play twice as much Test cricket as most other countries?
    So you rate your batting line up?


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Last three years (rankings I think are over 3 years)

    Eng 34 tests
    Aus 26 tests
    India 26 tests
    SL 25 tests
    NZ 22 tests
    SA 21 tests
    PAK 21 tests.
    Also, simply playing more tests won't help. If you don't perform consistently then playing more will result in a drop in ranking for players even if you miss due to rest/injury.


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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    And you guys think Aus would lose to NZ , Eng?
    Aus would smash us home and away, England-Aus is trickier but I'd pick them to win home and away against this Aus team with Smith out of Bradman mode and Warner possibly in decline (either that or being undercooked/lacking form).


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    So you rate your batting line up?
    Australia dont have the best batting team, India obviously are better and England are on a par, better than most other teams.

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    The 90s and 00s Australia team is definitely better the team had more world class batsmen and bowlers for all conditions.

    Hayden
    Langer
    Ponting
    Clarke
    Martyn
    Hussey
    Gilchrist
    Warne
    Lee
    Mcgrath
    Gillespie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    Yeah, but India has now beaten them twice on succession so your analogy is not exactly correct. They are a superior team to Aus. Can whitewash at home and can win in Aus.
    True India has beaten them at home but then India in cricket is a relatively decent Arsenal to Australia Barcelona and can pull off 2 series wins in a row somehow. It gives some hope to others but smaller teams should temper their expectations.

    Sorry, I no longer follow soccer so much so donít have any idea about recent performance of Arsenal and Barcelona but I do know for sure that either of them will still wallop Mohun Bagans and Lahore Sportings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Aus would smash us home and away, England-Aus is trickier but I'd pick them to win home and away against this Aus team with Smith out of Bradman mode and Warner possibly in decline (either that or being undercooked/lacking form).
    Same batting retained Ashes in Eng and beat Eng at home. Aus is likely to beat NZ/SA home/away. So only Ind is left. We can't say that this is weak batting. Sure not the best in the world, but not really weak if you can produce those results.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Aus would smash us home and away, England-Aus is trickier but I'd pick them to win home and away against this Aus team with Smith out of Bradman mode and Warner possibly in decline (either that or being undercooked/lacking form).
    So why didnt they beat Aus in Ashes in England?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cric1234 View Post
    The 90s and 00s Australia team is definitely better the team had more world class batsmen and bowlers for all conditions.

    Hayden
    Langer
    Ponting
    Clarke
    Martyn
    Hussey
    Gilchrist
    Warne
    Lee
    Mcgrath
    Gillespie
    They had a better team than every team except great WI in the history of cricket.

    You can't have ATG all the time by definition.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babbar View Post
    True India has beaten them at home but then India in cricket is a relatively decent Arsenal to Australia Barcelona and can pull off 2 series wins in a row somehow. It gives some hope to others but smaller teams should temper their expectations.

    Sorry, I no longer follow soccer so much so donít have any idea about recent performance of Arsenal and Barcelona but I do know for sure that either of them will still wallop Mohun Bagans and Lahore Sportings.
    I dont follow soccer as well, but all I am saying is having defeated Aussies twice at home over two series which have 4 tests each, it is absurd to look at this as any sort of a fluke.

    A lesser team can beat a good side in a test match. Maybe stretch it to two tests st the maximum in a series. But to win a series requires sustained excellent performances and domination, and to repeat it means one and only one thing, India is superior to Australia.

    Doesn't mean India is dominant over other teams. They still have to win series in England, NZ and SA to claim that. But for now, it is crystal clear they are much better than Australia home or away.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Same batting retained Ashes in Eng and beat Eng at home. Aus is likely to beat NZ/SA home/away. So only Ind is left. We can't say that this is weak batting. Sure not the best in the world, but not really weak if you can produce those results.
    Smith in god mode with a point to prove is why England didn't win.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Smith in god mode with a point to prove is why England didn't win.
    And Smith plays for Aus.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    And Smith plays for Aus.
    Would Smith replicate those performances?

    Very unlikely especially since the short ball weakness of his which has been exposed.

    He had averaged 20 since that England series before he feasted in the 3rd Test in Sydney.
    Last edited by Aman; 20th January 2021 at 09:30.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  75. #75
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    Ind can still get 350 in Ind even if Kohli and Pujara get out for 10 each. Same cant be said about Australia.They may not get 200 if best 2 batsmen fell cheap.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    So you rate your batting line up?
    I rate out batting as fairly weak right now.

    1 Warner. Destructive at his best but a massive ftb.

    2 We haven't had a settled opener partner for years. I have high hopes for Pucjovski but at the moment we don't have a settled opening pair & it hurts the team.

    3 Marnus. Pretty good player. Should average 40-45 in Tests. He's very annoying but puts a price on his wicket & generally gets the game moving when needed.

    4 Smith. An outstanding batsman. One batsman doesn't make a team though.

    5 Wade. Served a purpose when he was brought in just to add toughness to stiffen up the side around an inexperienced captain. But he's now reached his use by date & his limitations are showing. Needs replacing.

    6 Green. Showed some glimpses of talent & should be persisted with. He should reflect on that series & the way India's rookies were prepared to grab the game by the scruff & take it on, whereas Green just looked a but timid & like he wasn't imposing himself on the game, merely taking part. Same goes for his bowling attitude.

    7 Paine. He's a bit of a return to the days when a keeper who averaged 30 & scrapped tough runs when needed was all you hoped for from a keeper. Healy. Boucher. Moin Khan. You can get away with that when the rest of your top 6 is humming with quality. But with all our other weaknesses then Paine's contributions get scrutinised. Then we see Pant & get all nostalgic for when we had Gilchrist & that raised the bar for all time...

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    I dont follow soccer as well, but all I am saying is having defeated Aussies twice at home over two series which have 4 tests each, it is absurd to look at this as any sort of a fluke.

    A lesser team can beat a good side in a test match. Maybe stretch it to two tests st the maximum in a series. But to win a series requires sustained excellent performances and domination, and to repeat it means one and only one thing, India is superior to Australia.

    Doesn't mean India is dominant over other teams. They still have to win series in England, NZ and SA to claim that. But for now, it is crystal clear they are much better than Australia home or away.
    Agreed. Settled beyond all doubt. It's now up to India (most likely) or England (if they do something amazing over these 9 Tests) to announce themselves the best team. Aus have been shown to be short of that quality. NZ will get their shot late in 2021.

  78. #78
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    No shame in losing to such a gritty team. They'll win in SA, get to the WTC final, and comfortably win the Ashes later this year.

  79. #79
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    I certainly expect most teams visiting Australia to look at the Indian bowling tactics, field placings against the Australian batsmen and realize that this saying that you need to be Chris Tremlett, Steve Harmison, Mohd Irfan type 6-5 to 7 ft tall, bowling at 140 km/hr plus, banging the ball in is just a myth. Less talented bowlers can put the fear of god on the batsmen with superior non stop aggressive bowling at the stumps and stacking the leg side. The key to neutralizing Australia in Australia is to first stop their batting line up piling more than 200-300 runs and preventing them from putting 500-600 runs, it ends up neutralizing their pace attack completely as the bowlers feel the pressure of not having enough runs on the board.

  80. #80
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    Australia is a great test team at home, it was a special effort by India to win the series. But we can't deny that Australia doesn't produce the same batting talent anymore that they used to. Likes of Joe Burn, Haris, Wade, Paine and head wouldn't even play for the state team in the early 2000s. 7

    Right now best best in the business is India and England in terms of producing young batting talent


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