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  1. #1
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    The cracks were already there. Australia’s staggering failure exposed the sobering reality

    If you’re reading this in a state of shock, don’t worry, you’re not alone.
    But allow me to reassure you that yes, India did just win the Border-Gavaskar series in the nation’s greatest Test victory of all-time.

    India’s ability to bounce back from its most humiliating moment in Test cricket to its finest in the space of a month should be celebrated tonight, tomorrow, and for as long as our memories allow us.

    As for Australia, the post-mortem, from what can only be classed as a stunning failure on home shores, has already begun.

    It won’t be a pretty one, and nor should it.

    It’s no secret that Australia’s greatest strength has long been its bowling, but it’s been a security blanket, too.

    Think back to when Steve Smith and David Warner were unavailable, and Australia’s batting order was held together with a piece of string. Or even earlier this series when Smith was yet to fire and Australia couldn’t score more than 200.


    More often than it would like to admit, Australia’s bowling attack has come to the rescue (see Adelaide 2020).

    But, if nothing else, the Sydney and Brisbane Tests have given Australia a sobering glimpse behind the fragile wall that’s protected it for years.

    Like night comes after day, that wall can’t hold forever – and it’s unreasonable to expect it to.

    Either one of Pat Cummins, Josh Hazlewood, Mitchell Starc or Nathan Lyon are entitled to a cold streak, because they sure as hell have provided enough hot ones.

    Australia’s attack will inevitably break down or have members fail to fire from time to time.

    That certainly was the case this summer.

    Lyon was well below his normal production with just nine wickets at 55.11 this series. Starc was in the same boat, responsible for just 11 Indian wickets at 40.72.

    Neither are well-accustomed to being in the bad books, but that’s the way sport goes. We must be sensitive to that fact.

    The brutal reality, however, is that without that elite attack papering over the cracks in the batting order, this Australia team simply isn’t as good as many gave it credit for.

    They often say cricket is a batter’s game, so it stands to reason that without a good batting line-up, you are in trouble.

    Only three Australians averaged more than 40 runs this series, two more above 30, while Matthew Wade, Warner, Travis Head, Joe Burns and Marcus Harris all averaged less than 25.

    Is it really any surprise Australia failed to win this series?

    Look further back to 2018’s Sandpapergate series and the picture of Australia’s batting woes becomes even clearer.

    Australia has played 22 Tests since that series and – outside of home assignments against Sri Lanka, Pakistan and New Zealand – has relied on the batting efforts of few to provide for many.

    At the 2019 Ashes, only Smith and Marnus Labuschagne averaged more than 35. In consecutive home series against India, it’s the same story with the exception of Will Pucovski (36.00), who has only played one Test.

    It’s worth mentioning that Warner had a big 2019-20 summer, but he averaged 9.50 at the Ashes and 16.75 against India.

    Struggling batsmen like to say they are ‘out of runs, not form’ – but they should know full well it’s only runs that matter.

    Meanwhile, Australia has fielded 26 opening combinations since 2016, while spots No.5 and No.6 have been populated by 14 different players in the same period.

    That level of chop-and-change has never been representative of great sides.

    More recently, Australia retained the Ashes in England in 2019, but has now only won three of its past eight Test series; Sri Lanka, New Zealand and Pakistan, all at home.

    India has now left these shores with the Border-Gavaskar Trophy twice in three summers, while the 2019 Ashes was tied 2-2.

    Regrettably, cricket is a numbers game — and they no longer add up for Australia in big series.

    It’s also a game where brief moments in time can have major consequences.

    Tim Paine’s Australia knows that awfully well since Ben Stokes played one of the greatest Test innings of all time to win at Headingley in 2019.

    Australia failed to take ten wickets that day five and lost the Test in extraordinary circumstances, before and England won at the Oval and tied the series.

    Australia has played 11 Tests since Headingley and has twice failed to bowl a side out on day five to win a Test match. Both occasions came this summer against India when a win in both matches would have led to a series victory, too.

    This is still far from a bad team.

    But the numbers don’t lie — when Australia has been faced with Test cricket’s biggest test in recent times, it has faltered.

    https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket...7599223c3a858e
    Last edited by Aman; 20th January 2021 at 08:21.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  2. #2
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    Australia is only a mediocre team at the moment, no surprises there.

    They will win some and they will lose some, just like they have done for the last 130 years.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Australia is only a mediocre team at the moment, no surprises there.

    They will win some and they will lose some, just like they have done for the last 130 years.
    Australia aren't mediocre, their batting line up on the other hand is very ordinary.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  4. #4
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    Bla bla bla whatever makes you sleep at night..

    Everyone knows how dominant they have been at home before this series.

  5. #5
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    Poor thread. Australia are an exceptionally strong team at home.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Poor thread. Australia are an exceptionally strong team at home.
    Aus are a strong team at home, they would wipe the floor with everyone except India and England. Does not mean their batting is any good.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Aus are a strong team at home, they would wipe the floor with everyone except India and England. Does not mean their batting is any good.
    They would wipe the floor with England 5-zip


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    They would wipe the floor with England 5-zip
    With that batting line up? Nope, I'd pick England to beat them.

    2-1 or 3-1.

    India dominated Aus this series, when undermanned too.

    If they can't survive against Thakur, Sundar, Saini, Nitinjai and Siraj, what hope are they against Broad, Anderson, Archer, Stokes and Woakes?
    Last edited by Aman; 20th January 2021 at 08:56.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    With that batting line up? Nope, I'd pick England to beat them.

    2-1 or 3-1.

    India dominated Aus this series, when undermanned too.

    If they can't survive against Thakur, Sundar, Saini, Nitinjai and Siraj, what hope are they against Broad, Anderson, Archer, Stokes and Woakes?
    Whst batting lineup did they gsve when they beat England last time?Smith and Warner. That's it. They now have Marnus. You are heavily underestimating Indusn bowling here. English bowlers wont be even half as effective in OZ conditions.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Whst batting lineup did they gsve when they beat England last time?Smith and Warner. That's it. They now have Marnus. You are heavily underestimating Indusn bowling here. English bowlers wont be even half as effective in OZ conditions.
    I don't know, if two of those three aren't scoring, Aus will be in massive trouble.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    I don't know, if two of those three aren't scoring, Aus will be in massive trouble.
    And that's because you refuse to acknowledge the quality of Indias seam attack . Australia will destroy the likes boult, southee, henry , woakes, anderson etc. In thee conditions, they are not good enough .


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    I don't know, if two of those three aren't scoring, Aus will be in massive trouble.
    How many teams have 4-5 top batsmen?.

  13. #13
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    Great thread and shows a lot of issues with them.

    Australia last won an away Test series in 2015/16, when they beat NZ in NZ.

    Since then -

    3-0 L to SL
    2-1 L to IND
    1-1 D to BAN
    3-1 L to SA
    1-0 L to PAK
    2-2 D to ENG

  14. #14
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    Frankly speaking, with that awful away record, Pakistan better beat Aus next year when they tour Pakistan. It's a 3 match series and anything worse than 2-0 to PAK will be dissapointing.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    How many teams have 4-5 top batsmen?.
    It's not about having 4-5 batsmen, it's about how little the rest offer to the team. They have little to no support - compare that to India who have Pant, Jadeja and Pandya and us with Nicolls, Watling, CdG/Neesham and Jamieson who are capable of making useful contributions. Combined those guys are good for 150+ runs.
    Last edited by Aman; 20th January 2021 at 09:09.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  16. #16
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    It's possible we'll look back at this as the series that marked the reign of a really great Indian team.

    For a long time there was a pack of 3 or 4 (Aus, India, NZ, Eng) all swapping wins & mostly hard to beat at home. No team really emerged as better or more consistent than the others- thought India's past series can now be looked as a slow climb to the top & away from that group of 4 to where they now stand- at the top alone.

    This Oz team isn't a great team. It's a very, very good bowling line up. Not perfect, but very good. And India batted superbly to blunt them.

    This Oz team is a relatively weak batting team (compared to past Oz teams). Warner is a bit of a FTB. Smith is great but this Oz team hasn't had an opening partnership or #5 batsman for a long time. Our captain averages about 30 with the bat...

    We had Sandpapergate. Then the Paine years as a bit of a transition. It's probably time for Oz cricket to go to a new era now. Under either Cummins or Smith II but I get the feeling Paine has taken the team about as far as he can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    With that batting line up? Nope, I'd pick England to beat them.

    2-1 or 3-1.

    India dominated Aus this series, when undermanned too.

    If they can't survive against Thakur, Sundar, Saini, Nitinjai and Siraj, what hope are they against Broad, Anderson, Archer, Stokes and Woakes?
    That bowling attack is full of over 30 geriatrics.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    With that batting line up? Nope, I'd pick England to beat them.

    2-1 or 3-1.

    India dominated Aus this series, when undermanned too.

    If they can't survive against Thakur, Sundar, Saini, Nitinjai and Siraj, what hope are they against Broad, Anderson, Archer, Stokes and Woakes?
    Ever think India were actually very good ?

  19. #19
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    India played well and from defence to attack , they had calculated everything. Aussies on the other hand thought that just playing at GABBA will give them a win. This aint the same GABA, the wicket is flat.


    Yesterday is the past.Tomorrow is the future.Today is a gift.That's why it's called the "present"

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    Ever think India were actually very good ?
    India were great, but dude let's get real.

    Do you think that bowling line up in the 4th Test is better than England's first choice bowling line up?

    This is one of the best bowling attacks in the world you're comparing to a team consisting of IPL players and net bowlers who likely wont play another Test for India again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrongun View Post
    It's possible we'll look back at this as the series that marked the reign of a really great Indian team.

    For a long time there was a pack of 3 or 4 (Aus, India, NZ, Eng) all swapping wins & mostly hard to beat at home. No team really emerged as better or more consistent than the others- thought India's past series can now be looked as a slow climb to the top & away from that group of 4 to where they now stand- at the top alone.

    This Oz team isn't a great team. It's a very, very good bowling line up. Not perfect, but very good. And India batted superbly to blunt them.

    This Oz team is a relatively weak batting team (compared to past Oz teams). Warner is a bit of a FTB. Smith is great but this Oz team hasn't had an opening partnership or #5 batsman for a long time. Our captain averages about 30 with the bat...

    We had Sandpapergate. Then the Paine years as a bit of a transition. It's probably time for Oz cricket to go to a new era now. Under either Cummins or Smith II but I get the feeling Paine has taken the team about as far as he can.
    Great post.

    Agree with this.

    SA should be Paine's farewell series/final series as captain if Aus do not qualify for the WTC Final, otherwise he can see the team through the WTC Final.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectionPersonified View Post
    India played well and from defence to attack , they had calculated everything. Aussies on the other hand thought that just playing at GABBA will give them a win. This aint the same GABA, the wicket is flat.
    Pakistan scored 450 chasing 490 it isn’t a tough wicket to chase as it might look still a great win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectionPersonified View Post
    India played well and from defence to attack , they had calculated everything. Aussies on the other hand thought that just playing at GABBA will give them a win. This aint the same GABA, the wicket is flat.
    Pakistan scored 450 in the 4th innings on the same Gabba and Australia made 600 Last year against Pakistan main bowling attack on the same Gabba but when india scored 330 after taking so much blows , the pitch becomes flat!!! Don't be so biased.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    India were great, but dude let's get real.

    Do you think that bowling line up in the 4th Test is better than England's first choice bowling line up?

    This is one of the best bowling attacks in the world you're comparing to a team consisting of IPL players and net bowlers who likely wont play another Test for India again.
    You are missing the point. How much analysis you have done of Indian bowling? If you have done it then put it here. Just repeating yourself isn't going to serve anything.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaankeJi View Post
    You are missing the point. How much analysis you have done of Indian bowling? If you have done it then put it here. Just repeating yourself isn't going to serve anything.
    Let me get this straight, you think your 4th string bowling line up with no strike bowlers is better than England's first choice bowling line up in Aus. Yes or no?


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Let me get this straight, you think your 4th string bowling line up with no strike bowlers is better than England's first choice bowling line up in Aus. Yes or no?
    It's not the case about the attack being better. It's about bowling better in a particular test. It will be ridiculous to compare these bowlers with 1000+ wickets combined. 1000+ wicket bowlers have to do something first in Aus to say that they are going to smash Aus . We can't say that just because Aus lost one test against new bowlers. Cricket does not work like that. We will see when Eng comes to Aus next time.
    Last edited by Buffet; 20th January 2021 at 09:40.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    With that batting line up? Nope, I'd pick England to beat them.

    2-1 or 3-1.

    India dominated Aus this series, when undermanned too.

    If they can't survive against Thakur, Sundar, Saini, Nitinjai and Siraj, what hope are they against Broad, Anderson, Archer, Stokes and Woakes?
    Nope. Not quite that easy.

    IND have broadcasted to the entire world how to bowl at AUS in AUS and keep them quiet. Prior to this, ENG/NZD etc had not worked it out.

    Touring teams should now take stock and if they are disciplined enough should look to replicate the sustained discipline like IND for over 3 Tests (not 3 sessions). Having said that, AUS, like any top team, will adapt and find ways of trying to throw bowlers off. Won’t sit static for other touring teams to come by and keep plugging away with the same model. That will be the real challenge.

    Also, keeping them quiet needs to be backed up with attritional and disciplined batting. Meaning minimal soft dismissals and controlling most controllable variables. Expect the divide in this aspect to be even more stark as most batsmen give in to the pressure in AUS sooner or later.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Let me get this straight, you think your 4th string bowling line up with no strike bowlers is better than England's first choice bowling line up in Aus. Yes or no?
    Just because Broad/Anderson have that many wickets it does not mean they will be able to replicate IND’s performance. People seem to have this misplaced notion of transitivity of superiority ingrained in their minds.

    Just because IND beat AUS it does not mean they will go off to ENG and wipe the floor with them. If IND win in ENG it will have to do with their performance adapted to ENG. Even if they lose 5-0, it will not take anything away from their performance in AUS (regardless of whether it is IND A**, A*, A, B or whatever that plays in ENG). Nor will a potential loss imply that ENG too would have dished out the same treatment to AUS. Each Head to Head has different contributing features which defines the match. Not much transitivity to be had.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yk313 View Post
    Just because Broad/Anderson have that many wickets it does not mean they will be able to replicate IND’s performance. People seem to have this misplaced notion of transitivity of superiority ingrained in their minds.

    Just because IND beat AUS it does not mean they will go off to ENG and wipe the floor with them. If IND win in ENG it will have to do with their performance adapted to ENG. Even if they lose 5-0, it will not take anything away from their performance in AUS (regardless of whether it is IND A**, A*, A, B or whatever that plays in ENG). Nor will a potential loss imply that ENG too would have dished out the same treatment to AUS. Each Head to Head has different contributing features which defines the match. Not much transitivity to be had.
    Perfectly said. Different conditions require different skills. There is a reason that SA and Aus have done consistently well in each other venues. Bounce is a common factor. Spin requires different skills. Swing requires different as well.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Let me get this straight, you think your 4th string bowling line up with no strike bowlers is better than England's first choice bowling line up in Aus. Yes or no?
    Yes. As a collective unit, our attack is better than anything England can or will put up.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

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    One thing - Batting didn't cost them either of the last 2 games, they had enough runs on the board to win(and probably would have declared if they weren't bowled out in the last match)

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    Before the series started: India will lose 4-0, Australia are too good!

    After the 36: Haha, told you India will lose 4-0

    After Gabba: Actually Australia aren't that good.

    Predictable from a troll. This Australian would have trashed any other team on their home turf. This is called hindsight punditry. The OP probably cried himself to the bed yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    India were great, but dude let's get real.

    Do you think that bowling line up in the 4th Test is better than England's first choice bowling line up?

    This is one of the best bowling attacks in the world you're comparing to a team consisting of IPL players and net bowlers who likely wont play another Test for India again.
    I meant overall. India has a mental grip over Aussies.

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    Also worth mentioning that more or less this same Aussie team plonked NZ just one year ago by:290, 250 and 280 runs respectively.

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    Australia is still a beast at home. Inspite of cracks most teams including England, New Zealand have failed to penetrate that Fortress. Only South Africa, England and India have done it in the last 10-12 years. But England have failed to replicate the same success again.

    Warner, Smith, Marnus would 9 times out of ten fire which helped to cover up for the Number 2, Number 5, Number 6, Number 7 batsman. Lyon is still the best spinner in Australia right now, he perhaps has the best record for a finger spinner in Australia and has close to 400 wickets, just because the Indians played him brilliantly does not make him a crap bowler over night. However the guy had the opportunity and experience to face the same Indian batting line up on the 2018-19 tour and therefore had ample opportunity to work out how he would be effective against them but he failed to do so therefore that failure is on him.

    As for Mitchel Starc, India is his bogeyman, they just don't feel intimidated by his charge in, bowl full, bowl a bouncer, bowl short of a length style bowling and when they negate him, he just has zero answers, the fact he routinely wraps up the tail has covered up for how routinely poor he has been at the top of the order. He lost his aura and place in the Australian side after the Indians neutralized him on the 2018-19 tour and again he had the perfect opportunity to apply the lessons he learnt from that series into this one and he didn't and again that failure is on him. It is certain that he will be the guy to face the axe on this tour.

    Most importantly Australia really needs to start worrying about how over dependent the team is on Warner, Smith, Marnus for runs. There are 3 spots up for grabs and the selectors also need to start preparing for life without Warner, Smith, Marnus. What the Indian team has taught everyone is the importance of preparing players on the bench for all the spots in the team and only the Indian team has actively done that whereas all the other teams are just blindly enjoying the services of their existing players without planning for life without them.

    Australia also need to assess playing a proper 5th pace bowling all rounder, ie someone who can be relied to bowl at a decent pace, pick up the odd wicket here and there, keep things tight and to score runs as well. I believe Mitchel Marsh was a better option that Green.

    Australia should also consider resting and rotating their pace attack as the manner in which the likes of Hazelwood, Cummins are being bowled to the ground, they are going to wilter away i.e. Jason Gillespie style or suffer a serious injury.

    Australians take their Cricket very seriously, they hate losing and everytime they have lost a big series, they have made players and officials pay for it. I expect Tim Paine to lose his place, captaincy and for Justin Langer's role to come under the scanner as well.

    Let's not kid ourselves, this series just proved India is the number one test side in the world right now. Australia is still in the top 3-4. They will lick their wounds, reassess, regroup and come back.

  36. #36
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    As far as England is concerned lol, the got whitewashed in 2013-14 5-0 and they lost 4-0 in 2017-18. They have not looked like winning a test match in Australia for the last ten years and the way the Indian bowlers have bowled, they have proven that you don't need tall, pacy, hit the deck bowlers to succeed in Australia, nothing triumphs a superior bowling strategy, line/length and field placings. Bharat Arun has badly embarrassed so many legends and western coaches sitting as bowling coaches worldwide.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unleashed View Post
    Before the series started: India will lose 4-0, Australia are too good!

    After the 36: Haha, told you India will lose 4-0

    After Gabba: Actually Australia aren't that good.

    Predictable from a troll. This Australian would have trashed any other team on their home turf. This is called hindsight punditry. The OP probably cried himself to the bed yesterday.
    This. Well said. Let trolls do what they do best!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Let me get this straight, you think your 4th string bowling line up with no strike bowlers is better than England's first choice bowling line up in Aus. Yes or no?
    You seem pretty confident about it. Just tell us the basis of your confidence.

  39. #39
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    Not to take anything away from the Indian performance (and make no mistake this was one of the greatest come from behind series victories in the history of the game considering how much India had to contend with - Kohli's absence, spate of injuries to their main players, a demoralizing collapse) but this is surely the weakest and most unbalanced Australian batting lineup of the last 2 decades (despite it having two players with an average of over 60) and imo that is down to three things (in order of importance):

    1. Tim Paine :It's time that Australia get over sandpapergate and get rid of Paine. He just ruins the balance of this team. With Carey or Whiteman in his place, not only will the team have better balance it will also enable them to opt for someone like Abbot as the fifth bowler when playing at home.

    2. Second opener: Puckovski has shown promise but his consistent bad luck and frail constitution don't inspire much confidence. If he doesn't work out then I think Australia should try to solve both this problem and the one above by playing Whiteman at the top.

    3. No 5/6: It is also time for Wade to go. Green has shown enough promise to be persisted with at 5 or 6 and one of Patterson or Maddinson can take up the other spot.

    Don't think the bowling needs any significant changes. Starc was bad but still think its temporary. With a better keeper batsman, solid opener and a proper fifth bowler this Australian team is still good enough to beat any other team at home.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Perfectly said. Different conditions require different skills. There is a reason that SA and Aus have done consistently well in each other venues. Bounce is a common factor. Spin requires different skills. Swing requires different as well.
    And thatÂ’s just the elemental side of nature/conditions.

    Individual match ups and contests on a player level, strategy level shape up very differently in each instance. On top of that players/teams do not remain static between series to wait for other oppositions to turn up and chip away at the same chinks in their armours.

    PP is a wonderful forum with riveting reads but at some point posters need to realise that skills, performances and individual players et cetera cannot be juxtaposed across geographies, eras, forms to suit whatever argument they are seeking to validate. Life does not work like that and cricket is a (small) part of life.

    Forget all else. LetÂ’s put some hypothetical scenarios around the AUSvIND series just concluded, Is there a guarantee that if IND had fielded their premier XI they definitely would have won the series in the same manner? Pretty easy to isolate players and look at them through their statistics to linearly extrapolate performances, ceteris paribus.

    Reality is that Siraj, Natarajan, Thakur, Saini, Sundar have just contributed significantly to a series win in AUS which included Smith and Warner. Can the same be said for Ishant and Shami? Not really. Does that mean they were not capable? Nope, doesn’t mean they were not capable. Does that mean they were guaranteed to win? Nope, does not mean that either. Could the “IND B” team have won in 2018-19? Possibly. Would they have definitely won? No such thing.

    Better question:

    What if AUS B had won in 2018-19 against IND A, but AUS A had lost against IND B in 2020 - what would that tell us? Nothing much. Would people have advocated for dropping Bumrah, Shami, Ishant, Ashwin for Siraj, Saini, Thakur, Sundar?. Would they have advocated for dropping Kohli for Agarwal/Vihari?

    The only cold hard certainties in life are those that transpire our eyes. Everything else is conjecture. Transitivity is a fickle concept and does not even bear the test of tweaking one or two variables in isolation - a fallacy itself to think there is no interdependence at play and that variables can be tweaked in isolation - in the same geography and time let alone across those.

    For those posters who have not been following the sport for decades, the events of last few weeks alone should tell you of the uncertainties of life and cricket.

  41. #41
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    Problem with Aus is that they now don’t have the luxury of sandpaper. Whenever they were in need reverse swing appeared magically afterwards elite honesty ruined the show. Teams like Pak,SL are going through downfall it is easier for Aus to make flat pancakes and win against them by scoring big and having scoreboard pressure but against India Eng etc it has become a distant dream. If anybody can do a favour and find starc’s bowling average in second innings pre and post elite honesty it could be a surprise. He was main weapon with reverse swing

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    With that batting line up? Nope, I'd pick England to beat them.

    2-1 or 3-1.

    India dominated Aus this series, when undermanned too.

    If they can't survive against Thakur, Sundar, Saini, Nitinjai and Siraj, what hope are they against Broad, Anderson, Archer, Stokes and Woakes?
    But didn't this very team demolish NZL a year back? the NZL attack too is as good as the english if not better.

  43. #43
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    Truth is India bowled well and made Aus batsmen earn their runs. The accuracy from Indian bowlers is something that was missing from all the teams that previously toured Australia.

    Secondly, this Indian team has found some players who can stand up to the opposition when the pressure is on. The contributions of lower midle order from No.6-No.8 has made India look a lot more stronger than they really are. Not to forget, Rohit Sharma and Gill are putting on 50 runs together every time they opened and one of them went on to make a big 50. Australian openers have been very poor and put their middle order under tremendous pressure.

    Whoever thinks Australia are a poor time will realize that they were thoroughly wrong. Just wait for their next series and they will destroy their next opponents and everything will be forgotten quickly.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by amvbfm View Post
    Not to take anything away from the Indian performance (and make no mistake this was one of the greatest come from behind series victories in the history of the game considering how much India had to contend with - Kohli's absence, spate of injuries to their main players, a demoralizing collapse) but this is surely the weakest and most unbalanced Australian batting lineup of the last 2 decades (despite it having two players with an average of over 60) and imo that is down to three things (in order of importance):

    1. Tim Paine :It's time that Australia get over sandpapergate and get rid of Paine. He just ruins the balance of this team. With Carey or Whiteman in his place, not only will the team have better balance it will also enable them to opt for someone like Abbot as the fifth bowler when playing at home.

    2. Second opener: Puckovski has shown promise but his consistent bad luck and frail constitution don't inspire much confidence. If he doesn't work out then I think Australia should try to solve both this problem and the one above by playing Whiteman at the top.

    3. No 5/6: It is also time for Wade to go. Green has shown enough promise to be persisted with at 5 or 6 and one of Patterson or Maddinson can take up the other spot.

    Don't think the bowling needs any significant changes. Starc was bad but still think its temporary. With a better keeper batsman, solid opener and a proper fifth bowler this Australian team is still good enough to beat any other team at home.
    Lol @ how you start this post.

    Before this series started certain people discredited India’s one win in OZ in 2018 saying it was a weak team because Warner and Smith weren’t there due to sandpaper.

    Now they were playing, had a fully packed bowling line up, and even then... this team is termed as weak.

    India played well, Australia also played well. People are talking as if India dominated the entire series. It was a good tussle where both teams had the foot on the other’s throats at various points of the series but India was much more clinical and were way more hungrier.

    Aussies are still a top 3 team in the world. Yea their batting could be worked on, but it is not nearly as weak as people make it out to be. Starc was always a mediocre test player and had been playing for years, and even dominated teams with poor batsmen, but he got owned by Indians so now he is under fire.

  45. #45
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    Nobody can take away IND’s win here. AUS had everything and IND did not even have Kohli or a fit Bumrah and Shami.

    One thing is clear for at least 10 years, PAK is not catching up to IND.

    IND has done cricket a service with their performance this series and I hope other teams follow their model.

  46. #46
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    Hope English team does not take things lightly for Ashes down under, because they will massacred.
    Also, if Australia wins Ashes, all will be forgotten.

    General public here in OZ discuss cricket only during Ashes. Rest of the year they are more worried about NRL, AFL, State of Origin etc.

    Only some serious cricket fans follow every series and overseas tours.

  47. #47
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    Australia I’ll still beat your Kiwi team black and blue, home and away btw.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Horse View Post
    Problem with Aus is that they now don’t have the luxury of sandpaper. Whenever they were in need reverse swing appeared magically afterwards elite honesty ruined the show. Teams like Pak,SL are going through downfall it is easier for Aus to make flat pancakes and win against them by scoring big and having scoreboard pressure but against India Eng etc it has become a distant dream. If anybody can do a favour and find starc’s bowling average in second innings pre and post elite honesty it could be a surprise. He was main weapon with reverse swing
    Imagine the numbers will be inflated anyway due to PAK/SRL games.

    Ideally look for what it is versus Top 6/7 batsmen of all teams. Not just cleaning the tail.

  49. #49
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    Silly post. India did exceptionally well, when Australia would have beaten every team at home right now. Even England who blow hot and cold at times.

    However it has to be said India's population is 3 times combined that of the rest of the cricket playing nations so they have a massive advantage when it comes to the amount of talent available. Their population is 6 times ours, imagine if we had six Pakistans how much easier it'd be. Not taking anything away from them as they're doing very well in identifying talent and trusting them to do the job.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    Silly post. India did exceptionally well, when Australia would have beaten every team at home right now. Even England who blow hot and cold at times.

    However it has to be said India's population is 3 times combined that of the rest of the cricket playing nations so they have a massive advantage when it comes to the amount of talent available. Their population is 6 times ours, imagine if we had six Pakistans how much easier it'd be. Not taking anything away from them as they're doing very well in identifying talent and trusting them to do the job.
    Lol at the population excuse, why was this not advantage to them before? India obviously has a much better domestic structure, coaching system, process where they are able to produce quality players at the international level.

    Best to just learn from what they have done right in the last 20 years rather than make poor excuses.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Lol at the population excuse, why was this not advantage to them before? India obviously has a much better domestic structure, coaching system, process where they are able to produce quality players at the international level.

    Best to just learn from what they have done right in the last 20 years rather than make poor excuses.

    ?????

    You must have trouble with basic comprehension as not only in this post but in all my other three posts about India-Australia I praised them a lot, which was even acknowledged by Indian posters, and hoped we would learn from them and show bravery and guts. Since you seemed to be unable to read basic English, these are my other posts on the topic, if you can spot me making excuses in any of them do tell:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    India did really well. I also think Australia looked at the new players and took it for granted. The new players also did not shy away from the challenge and took Australia on. Even though had they failed noone would have blamed them. I also think Kohli not playing was good for the side, it gave others more responsibility as well than just putting pressure on one player.

    India lost then recovered, they took the hammering and humiliation of 36 all out, dusted themselves up and went again. We almost chased 450 in Australia, didn't do it but then celebrated one fluke Shafiq innings and got battered rest of the series. There's your difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    Its a lesson for us, as India changed their entire system completely from grassroots up. People will say oh its IPL but I saw the Indian team changing before IPL too. You look at our team and you're reminded of the 1990's Indian team where only Tendulkar worked and nothing else, it had no great bowlers or all rounders. Barring Babar and Shaheen that's our team. Great teams can work with average coaches, poor teams are made worse by pathetic coaches which Misbah and Waqar are.


    As for population, its not really an excuse. Its a fact. They used to be very poor despite a billion people, now they know how to churn better cricketers out with a system and they are doing it. Its the same for us, our population is more than the SENA nations combined and we are still garbage because we haven't learnt how to use a proper system like India seemed to have.

    Learn to read first before making poor assumptions about my views.

  52. #52
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    Six Pakistans would produce six Naseems and six Musas as it stands now.

    Without a proper infrastructure, population has zero excuse. Finally it is 11 vs 11 in the field.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoshiarpurexpress View Post
    Hope English team does not take things lightly for Ashes down under, because they will massacred.
    Also, if Australia wins Ashes, all will be forgotten.

    General public here in OZ discuss cricket only during Ashes. Rest of the year they are more worried about NRL, AFL, State of Origin etc.

    Only some serious cricket fans follow every series and overseas tours.
    So the Australians dont care about WTC & whether their team qualifies or not -especially in the face of their neighboring country making or even winning it?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by The lone Ranger View Post
    Bla bla bla whatever makes you sleep at night..

    Everyone knows how dominant they have been at home before this series.
    Agree with you. They are stronger and will stronger in home. Great teams bounce back fast..

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by dildilpak View Post
    So the Australians dont care about WTC & whether their team qualifies or not -especially in the face of their neighboring country making or even winning it?
    I don't think most of them are that emotional about if Australia makes it to WTC or not.
    Even if they don't win the World Cup, its forgotten pretty quickly.
    The Ashes though, I see a different reaction from Aussies when its happening. They seem to be more involved.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    Six Pakistans would produce six Naseems and six Musas as it stands now.

    Without a proper infrastructure, population has zero excuse. Finally it is 11 vs 11 in the field.
    Which is what I said in my last paragraph if you had some level of comprehension. When you have a system and a large population it's very easy like now for India. When you have no system like we do then nothing will help.

    It's astounding how people here don't read and pick a line and start posting nonsense.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    Great thread and shows a lot of issues with them.

    Australia last won an away Test series in 2015/16, when they beat NZ in NZ.

    Since then -

    3-0 L to SL
    2-1 L to IND
    1-1 D to BAN
    3-1 L to SA
    1-0 L to PAK
    2-2 D to ENG
    Pretty interesting.

  58. #58
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    As said in another thread other than 2-3 batsmen Aus is lacking international quality batting depth and even if we look at their domestic cricket, cupboard is pretty empty. They would be hoping that Pucovski and Green develop going forward and thats the reason they have been brought in young. If a team has some good bowlers they can exploit that like India did as well as SA over the last decade and unless something changes Ashes this year might turn out to be more competitive than many expect with Eng having some genuinely quick bowlers available.
    Last edited by Titan24; 23rd January 2021 at 17:51.


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