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  1. #1
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    Did Australia lose to India because of age-related decline?

    I believe brother @Junaids has a point. Hazlewood is 30, Starc is 31, Lyon is 33, Warner -34, Smith -31, Paine -36, Wade -33 . When you have more than half the team in their 30's and suffering from age-related decline, it's difficult to best an inspired side full of youngster beauties .

    Look at Australia's terrible catching for instance. A younger team would have held on to their catches and India would have been beaten 3-1. When your bowlers are that old, they need a proper 5th option such as Faheem Ashraf, shadab Khan, mohammad Nawaz or Aamer yamin. The lack of young test class talent in Australia is shocking when you consider that many of these players have no ready replacements.

    What do Ppers think?


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  2. #2
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    Yes, plus there is this issue with lack of tall fast bowlers as well, lack of at least one 7.5 feet bowler in the Aus attack is one of the reasons why they didn't get enough bounce to trouble our hard handed batsmen especially that fat kid who thinks he is Rohail Nazir.

  3. #3
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    An entertaining read Nikhil. This made me laugh.

  4. #4
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    Age related decline may happen or may not. There is no guarantee with everyone. Some things work for some, it doesn't work for rest.

    India also has an ageing middle order and had an ageing pace attack. But we also have better bench strength and backups. So, this age related issue isn't a concern for us.

    If Shami, Ishant and Umesh retire today, we will still have Bumrah, Siraj, Saini and Shardul alongside Ashwin and Jadeja.

    If Pujara and Rahane retire today, we have Vihari and KL Rahul as backups.

    Our brotherly friend, @tyron_woodley has already predicted that Shreyas Iyer should look to open a business of Wada-Pav in Mumbai because the bench strength of Indian team is already good.

    However, the same can't be said with Australia. For Australia, it will be a concern. By the time Pucovski establishes himself, Warner will be on last leg and the second opener problem will still exist. Its the bench strength which is weak for Australia, not age-related issuesm

  5. #5
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    This is Australia's 'Aane Do' series.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    Yes, plus there is this issue with lack of tall fast bowlers as well, lack of at least one 7.5 feet bowler in the Aus attack is one of the reasons why they didn't get enough bounce to trouble our hard handed batsmen especially that fat kid who thinks he is Rohail Nazir.
    The tragedy is that it is their tallest bowler Starc who is struggling. As KyleJamieson has shown recently, 6'8" is the new 6'5" in modern cricket and Australia have only the likes of 5'10" Jhye Richardson as ready replacements.

    Their fast bowling stocks are at their weakest now as well apart from their batting stocks which went into decline just before the India tour.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    The tragedy is that it is their tallest bowler Starc who is struggling. As KyleJamieson has shown recently, 6'8" is the new 6'5" in modern cricket and Australia have only the likes of 5'10" Jhye Richardson as ready replacements.

    Their fast bowling stocks are at their weakest now as well apart from their batting stocks which went into decline just before the India tour.
    Agree 100%. Also can you believe in this day and age Aus having only 3 world class bats who could walk into any team? Just 3, imagine their plight!!

  8. #8
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    Your jibe at Pak players aside I think If anything majority of their key players were around their peak (27-32) except Paine and maybe Warner entering the later stage. Selection and captaincy left quite a lot to be desired though.

    At the same time its not a hidden fact that Australia has been struggling to produce the same quality of batsmen as they used to do. There are not many young and upcoming batsmen putting their hands up and that is why Aus had to select Shaun Marsh until a year or two ago when he was 36 and now keep on rotating players in the middle and opening slot as no one is actually knocking the door let alone breaking it. Ben Mcdemott is thought to in the radar (I guess Warne mentioned his name) for middle order and averages 34.08 with bat in 38 matches with 2 100s. FC stats of some of Aus batsmen also manifest their struggles. In terms of spin bowling they also dont have many options of international quality, yes they have some decent pacers available.

  9. #9
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    Nope

  10. #10
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    LOL, 6-7 players are in their peak and occupy the top 10 ranks.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  11. #11
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    **. The Aussies at this age are supposed to be in their primes. They got their behinds handed to them in their own backyard by a capable, determined team

  12. #12
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    Everyone can see that this has everything to do with heights and selecting shorter bowlers. It was obvious from the start that a midget like Cameron Green would never succeed with the ball, despite bowling at 135-140 kmph. On the flipside, a 7'2'' giant like Shardul Thakur was always going to pick up at least 7 wickets a game. T. Natarajan is only 6'8'' so he is not as effective. Perhaps if Cameron Green could undergo cosmetic height surgery, he could become a great like Boyd Rankin or Jake Ball.

    Otherwise, a fast bowler under 6 feet should be banned from teams and consider other careers.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by f.b.m View Post
    Everyone can see that this has everything to do with heights and selecting shorter bowlers. It was obvious from the start that a midget like Cameron Green would never succeed with the ball, despite bowling at 135-140 kmph. On the flipside, a 7'2'' giant like Shardul Thakur was always going to pick up at least 7 wickets a game. T. Natarajan is only 6'8'' so he is not as effective. Perhaps if Cameron Green could undergo cosmetic height surgery, he could become a great like Boyd Rankin or Jake Ball.

    Otherwise, a fast bowler under 6 feet should be banned from teams and consider other careers.
    What Rubbish. Height had nothing to do with India's Dominant bowling performance. Given the masterful off, middle stump line and field placings the Indian bowlers persisted with relentlessly during the series to perfection, height was not an issue at all. They just proved to the world that this myth that you must be 6'5-7 ft, bowling at 140 km/hr plus, banging the ball in for multiple spells ie Chris Tremlett, Steve Harmison, Mohd Irfan etc is rubbish

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by f.b.m View Post
    Everyone can see that this has everything to do with heights and selecting shorter bowlers. It was obvious from the start that a midget like Cameron Green would never succeed with the ball, despite bowling at 135-140 kmph. On the flipside, a 7'2'' giant like Shardul Thakur was always going to pick up at least 7 wickets a game. T. Natarajan is only 6'8'' so he is not as effective. Perhaps if Cameron Green could undergo cosmetic height surgery, he could become a great like Boyd Rankin or Jake Ball.

    Otherwise, a fast bowler under 6 feet should be banned from teams and consider other careers.
    Bit unfair. Cameron Green is an allrounder. They dont usually have to be tall. But the problem is that the only quality seam allrounders around are the likes of Faheem Ashraf and Green is simply not in the same class.

    Neither do Australia have spin allrounders like Shadab or Nawaz.

    Let's not even talk about wicket keeping . Tim Paine is a 36 year old geriatric and was inferior even to rishabh pant who himself is only 80 % the cricketer that Rohail Nazir is.

    Australia dont have any keeper bats in Shield who are half as good as Pant let alone the untouchable Nazir.
    Last edited by Nikhil_cric; 20th January 2021 at 20:47.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    An entertaining read Nikhil. This made me laugh.
    Same here.
    The OP has gone into too much thinking into weird philosophies.

    One of the major reasons Australia couldn't do better was the input by the captain as a player and then the captain as the leader.
    Tim Paine has nothing that could inspire in club level cricketers.

  16. #16
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    Lol at Faheem Ashraf, I felt he was underwhelming with the ball in NZ, yes he was econonical and did a holding job but I expect him to be able to take wickets as well

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by f.b.m View Post
    Everyone can see that this has everything to do with heights and selecting shorter bowlers. It was obvious from the start that a midget like Cameron Green would never succeed with the ball, despite bowling at 135-140 kmph. On the flipside, a 7'2'' giant like Shardul Thakur was always going to pick up at least 7 wickets a game. T. Natarajan is only 6'8'' so he is not as effective. Perhaps if Cameron Green could undergo cosmetic height surgery, he could become a great like Boyd Rankin or Jake Ball.

    Otherwise, a fast bowler under 6 feet should be banned from teams and consider other careers.
    Hillarious...


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    What Rubbish. Height had nothing to do with India's Dominant bowling performance. Given the masterful off, middle stump line and field placings the Indian bowlers persisted with relentlessly during the series to perfection, height was not an issue at all. They just proved to the world that this myth that you must be 6'5-7 ft, bowling at 140 km/hr plus, banging the ball in for multiple spells ie Chris Tremlett, Steve Harmison, Mohd Irfan etc is rubbish
    I am pretty sure that it was sarcasm for talking too much about the height. Just like op is sarcastic about age.

    Ignoring skills and talking about height/age had become a fashion for some posters.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  19. #19
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    Yes.

    Justin Langer inherited a team from Darren Lehmann that had 8 players in the age group of 21-29 (Smith, Bancroft, Mitch marsh, Starc, Hazelwood etc) and then replaced them with 31+ geriatrics like Wade, S Marsh,.....uhmm... Smith, Starc, etc...who were/are on an age related decline....

    Any other competent coach with a brain and Australia would have won 4-0 with each one by an innings margin.
    Last edited by Mesozoic; 20th January 2021 at 20:59.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesozoic View Post
    Yes.

    Justin Langer inherited a team from Darren Lehmann hat had 8 players in the age group of 21-29 (Smith, Bancroft, Mitch marsh, Starc, Hazelwood etc) and then replaced them with 31+ geriatrics like Wade, S Marsh,.....uhmm... Smith, Starc, etc...who were/are on an age related decline....

    Any other competent coach with a brain and Australia would have won 4-0 with each one by an innings margin.
    Not to mention Lyon's lack of runs. In SENA countries , you always need a spinner who can bat well . Mohammad Nawaz and Shadab Khan are perfect examples. Nawaz averaged nearly 50 with the bat and 35 with the ball in QEA this season .

    Shield Cricket just does jor produce spinners like that.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    I believe brother @Junaids has a point. Hazlewood is 30, Starc is 31, Lyon is 33, Warner -34, Smith -31, Paine -36, Wade -33 . When you have more than half the team in their 30's and suffering from age-related decline, it's difficult to best an inspired side full of youngster beauties .

    Look at Australia's terrible catching for instance. A younger team would have held on to their catches and India would have been beaten 3-1. When your bowlers are that old, they need a proper 5th option such as Faheem Ashraf, shadab Khan, mohammad Nawaz or Aamer yamin. The lack of young test class talent in Australia is shocking when you consider that many of these players have no ready replacements.

    What do Ppers think?
    India did really well. I also think Australia looked at the new players and took it for granted. The new players also did not shy away from the challenge and took Australia on. Even though had they failed noone would have blamed them. I also think Kohli not playing was good for the side, it gave others more responsibility as well than just putting pressure on one player.

    India lost then recovered, they took the hammering and humiliation of 36 all out, dusted themselves up and went again. We almost chased 450 in Australia, didn't do it but then celebrated one fluke Shafiq innings and got battered rest of the series. There's your difference.

  22. #22
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    @ anyone taking this thread seriously. It’s a shot at Junaids’s ridiculous logic and posts over the years.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Not to mention Lyon's lack of runs. In SENA countries , you always need a spinner who can bat well . Mohammad Nawaz and Shadab Khan are perfect examples. Nawaz averaged nearly 50 with the bat and 35 with the ball in QEA this season .

    Shield Cricket just does jor produce spinners like that.

    Wholeheartedly agree.

    Langer should have picked either Ashton Agar or Peter McQuin, the reserve spinner from St.John's cricket club second XI in North Canberra league for his batting exploits and tight off spin to hold one end.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesozoic View Post
    Wholeheartedly agree.

    Langer should have picked either Ashton Agar or Peter McQuin, the reserve spinner from St.John's cricket club second XI in North Canberra league for his batting exploits and tight off spin to hold one end.
    Glenn Maxwell might have been a good enough left field option too. Good enough to be a frontline spinner and average 35 with the bat.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Glenn Maxwell might have been a good enough eft field option too. Good enough to be a frontline spinner and average 35 with the bat.
    Yeah. Anyone would be better than the 33+ geriatric Lyon who averages 75 in Asia whenever the opponent captain wore a black undie and had tuna for breakfast

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    This is Australia's 'Aane Do' series.
    Haha. Wish there had been some Tests as part of that one.

  27. #27
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    Paine and Wade were in the side.

    Nothing more needs to be said

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yk313 View Post
    Haha. Wish there had been some Tests as part of that one.
    So glad there weren’t, 2011(after WC )-2012 was our worst time in this millenium after 2007 WC exit(atleast that year we had away English series win plus T20 wc).

    Aane do though changed our side completely... (from openers to middle order lol).

    I wonder what threads would had been there on PP, 2011-2013(before CT).. terrible time to be an ICT fan
    Last edited by JaDed; 20th January 2021 at 22:13.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    I believe brother @Junaids has a point. Hazlewood is 30, Starc is 31, Lyon is 33, Warner -34, Smith -31, Paine -36, Wade -33 . When you have more than half the team in their 30's and suffering from age-related decline, it's difficult to best an inspired side full of youngster beauties .

    Look at Australia's terrible catching for instance. A younger team would have held on to their catches and India would have been beaten 3-1. When your bowlers are that old, they need a proper 5th option such as Faheem Ashraf, shadab Khan, mohammad Nawaz or Aamer yamin. The lack of young test class talent in Australia is shocking when you consider that many of these players have no ready replacements.

    What do Ppers think?
    Nope.

    The better quality side won. The supposed dotards you have highlighted in your OP would have wiped the floor with most other visiting sides.

    Did get tactically outplayed though. So I guess you could argue they lost due to brain-related decline.

    Meh.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    So glad there weren’t, 2011(after WC )-2012 was our worst time in this millenium after 2007 WC exit(atleast that year we had away English series win plus T20 wc).

    Aane do though changed our side completely... (from openers to middle order lol).

    I wonder what threads would had been there on PP, 2011-2013(before CT).. terrible time to be an ICT fan
    I wasn’t talking about it purely because of any perceived edge in performance. That was the best chance to have any Tests between the two for a while and it looks like none may happen for a while going forward. Looking at the comments there seem to be quite a few people here who hardly watched the Tests in 2000s let alone those in 1980s. Would have been fun as entertainment.

    Think PAK still had the likes of Hafeez, Nasir Jamshed, Rahat Ali, Tanvir Ahmed and Mohammad Irfan as part of the players in Tests. Not quite sure about palpable edge in supremacy.

    But do not agree there was a gulf of divide between your WC11 line up and the one immediately after in ‘11-‘13. If I am not mistaken, the bowlers were fairly unchanged? Still remember the first text message I received from a colleague after the semi-final in response to congrats: “saare khotay sikkay chal gaye aaj”.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yk313 View Post
    I wasn’t talking about it purely because of any perceived edge in performance. That was the best chance to have any Tests between the two for a while and it looks like none may happen for a while going forward. Looking at the comments there seem to be quite a few people here who hardly watched the Tests in 2000s let alone those in 1980s. Would have been fun as entertainment.

    Think PAK still had the likes of Hafeez, Nasir Jamshed, Rahat Ali, Tanvir Ahmed and Mohammad Irfan as part of the players in Tests. Not quite sure about palpable edge in supremacy.

    But do not agree there was a gulf of divide between your WC11 line up and the one immediately after in ‘11-‘13. If I am not mistaken, the bowlers were fairly unchanged? Still remember the first text message I received from a colleague after the semi-final in response to congrats: “saare khotay sikkay chal gaye aaj”.
    Lol

    Nope we changed our bowlers from 2011 wc as well.. Bhuvi(from Aane do) , Ishant, Umesh..but kept the same from Aane do

  32. #32
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    This thread delivers.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    Lol

    Nope we changed our bowlers from 2011 wc as well.. Bhuvi(from Aane do) , Ishant, Umesh..but kept the same from Aane do
    ‘Lol’ was precisely my reaction too. I guess he was talking about the long term potential of that bowling line up in his response.

    You are right about Bhuv. Had a wonderful series with some pleasing indippers.

    Ishant debuted in c. 2008 and I remember Hafeez taking him to cleaners during the T20 or ODIs at some point but it’s just a vague recollection now. But I guess Ishant got called back with others’ retirements. Funny how he always had a high economy rate and his spells were touted as the opening of floodgates. IND did really well to persist with him and extract the most they could out of him tactically over the years.

    Umesh played in Aane Do? Do not even remember him. Remember the very forgettable Dinda.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yk313 View Post
    ‘Lol’ was precisely my reaction too. I guess he was talking about the long term potential of that bowling line up in his response.

    You are right about Bhuv. Had a wonderful series with some pleasing indippers.

    Ishant debuted in c. 2008 and I remember Hafeez taking him to cleaners during the T20 or ODIs at some point but it’s just a vague recollection now. But I guess Ishant got called back with others’ retirements. Funny how he always had a high economy rate and his spells were touted as the opening of floodgates. IND did really well to persist with him and extract the most they could out of him tactically over the years.

    Umesh played in Aane Do? Do not even remember him. Remember the very forgettable Dinda.
    Naw Umesh played CT 2013..

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    Lol..
    This is revenge thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    Naw Umesh played CT 2013..
    Aah OK, you were talking about CT. Thought you meant the bilateral.

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    I was staying at Intercontinental hotel in Adelaide, it's the only high quality hotel close to ground and I was amazed at the lack of interest amongst locals for this series. Nobody seems to know anything about this lack lustre Indian team barring Kohli.

    There is a fat wicket keeper, strokeless players like Pujara and Rahane and a obscure bowling attack

    I keep wondering, whether a win against these nobodies will even count

  38. #38
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    OP, I don't think it was age related. In my opinion the decline occurred because as we all know bowlers need to be 6 and a half feet minimum in Aussie conditions.

    I am sharing braking news when I say that unfortunately Australian bowlers started to grow shorter as the series went on.

    This was a side effect of living in the bubble for six months plus. It now appears that the bubble was really low in height, so Cummins, Starc and Hazelwood had to bend down a lot while inside the bubble. Medical science has proved beyond doubt that this has the terrible effect of taking inches and even feet off your frame.

    Don't believe me?

    This is the Australian attack at Adelaide:



    And this is Cummins, Starc and Hazelwood at the Gabba.



    Clearly you should not bend down when in a bubble, whatever the circumstances. Because then you lose height, and then you can't win. Anything.

    Qod Erat Demonstrandum.

  39. #39
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    So many posters missing the sarcasm here

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by leg-side-flick View Post
    I was staying at Intercontinental hotel in Adelaide, it's the only high quality hotel close to ground and I was amazed at the lack of interest amongst locals for this series. Nobody seems to know anything about this lack lustre Indian team barring Kohli.

    There is a fat wicket keeper, strokeless players like Pujara and Rahane and a obscure bowling attack

    I keep wondering, whether a win against these nobodies will even count
    I seriously think there is a possibility that Australia deliberately underperformed just to keep this series competitive. We all know that India will never be a box office touring side in Australia and CA desperately need to replenish their coffers . Just to create an artificial demand, Austalia may have gone a little easy on India .

    Seems to have worked too. Look at the record ratings and subscriptions!!


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

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    Yes, they also lack atleast 2 players who average 100+. Another important aspect is India didn't attack their tailenders and injure them as a result their bowling attack had to play all 4 tests and lost their steam.

  42. #42
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    M Nawaz at 5 would’ve averaged over 40 with bat and under 35 with ball.
    While Shadab would’ve been averaging 25 with the ball and 35 with the bat they missed these two younsta beauties.

    Unfortunately for Australia they are Pakistani and unable to help them win the series.


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    Can only say that really for Warner even then that could be due to a lack of form/match practice. The rest are fine although it does seem Smith's golden period where it felt like he was scoring a century every other game is over.

    Starc should have been dropped a while back, he usually feasts on the lower order and is a pink ball specialist.
    Last edited by Aman; 21st January 2021 at 07:49.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    @ anyone taking this thread seriously. It’s a shot at Junaids’s ridiculous logic and posts over the years.
    Really good satire is when the reader questions if it is satire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Look at Australia's terrible catching for instance. A younger team would have held on to their catches and India would have been beaten 3-1.
    Why do you believe this Indian team could have won the one game?

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    Quote Originally Posted by leg-side-flick View Post
    I was staying at Intercontinental hotel in Adelaide, it's the only high quality hotel close to ground and I was amazed at the lack of interest amongst locals for this series. Nobody seems to know anything about this lack lustre Indian team barring Kohli.

    There is a fat wicket keeper, strokeless players like Pujara and Rahane and a obscure bowling attack

    I keep wondering, whether a win against these nobodies will even count
    And then it goes to break viewership records in Australian TV.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    Why do you believe this Indian team could have won the one game?
    In this era of drop-in pitches and weak fast bowlers, even no-hopers like India can hope to compete once in a while. Would have been a different story if Australia had their old pitches and bowlers like Lindwall/Lillee/Thomson at 180 kph etc..


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Can only say that really for Warner even then that could be due to a lack of form/match practice. The rest are fine although it does seem Smith's golden period where it felt like he was scoring a century every other game is over.

    Starc should have been dropped a while back, he usually feasts on the lower order and is a pink ball specialist.
    Starc against the top 6 : averages 33.1 @ 61
    Boult against the top 6 : averages 32.7 @ 68.1

  49. #49
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    What Australia lacked was 17yr old Joel Garner i.e Naseem Shah in their bowling attack

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    I believe brother @Junaids has a point. Hazlewood is 30, Starc is 31, Lyon is 33, Warner -34, Smith -31, Paine -36, Wade -33 . When you have more than half the team in their 30's and suffering from age-related decline, it's difficult to best an inspired side full of youngster beauties .

    Look at Australia's terrible catching for instance. A younger team would have held on to their catches and India would have been beaten 3-1. When your bowlers are that old, they need a proper 5th option such as Faheem Ashraf, shadab Khan, mohammad Nawaz or Aamer yamin. The lack of young test class talent in Australia is shocking when you consider that many of these players have no ready replacements.

    What do Ppers think?
    These are Aussie ages, not Pakistani ages. So Hazlewood, Lyon, Smith, Starc are not on the slide just yet.

    The relevant cases are Warner- who missed half the series with a pulled muscle, exactly the kind of thing which disrupts a players form more & more frequently with age.

    And most crucially Paine. Paine is 36. That's the exact age when Aussie keepers decline. You can set your watch to it. The grand old dignified types like Healy & Gilchrist retired themselves at 35-37 because they started to miss the odd chance & knew they would be letting bowlers down by trying to hang on.

    Brad Haddin was 37 when selectors tapped him on the shoulder & suggested maybe he retire rather than go out being dropped. Guess how old Rod Marsh, the OG great was when he retired... 37.

    Paine missed more chances in that series than he had in the previous 2 seasons just about. He missed them off Lyon- which affected Lyon's ability to influence the series on the final days. If you miss two or three chances off the spinner on day 4 & 5 in consecutive tests it also costs him a chance to bowl at the fresh batsman + the tail who come in so it really is a snowball effect.

    We actually had the 5th bowling option mate- cameron green the 2m tall guy who bowls about 135/140k... came into the game with consecutive 5 wicket hauls in Shield games... you might not have noticed him because I think Paine forgot he existed too.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    I believe brother @Junaids has a point. Hazlewood is 30, Starc is 31, Lyon is 33, Warner -34, Smith -31, Paine -36, Wade -33 . When you have more than half the team in their 30's and suffering from age-related decline, it's difficult to best an inspired side full of youngster beauties .

    Look at Australia's terrible catching for instance. A younger team would have held on to their catches and India would have been beaten 3-1. When your bowlers are that old, they need a proper 5th option such as Faheem Ashraf, shadab Khan, mohammad Nawaz or Aamer yamin. The lack of young test class talent in Australia is shocking when you consider that many of these players have no ready replacements.

    What do Ppers think?
    These are Aussie ages, not Pakistani ages. So Hazlewood, Lyon, Smith, Starc are not on the slide just yet.

    The relevant cases are Warner- who missed half the series with a pulled muscle, exactly the kind of thing which disrupts a players form more & more frequently with age.

    And most crucially Paine. Paine is 36. That's the exact age when Aussie keepers decline. You can set your watch to it. The grand old dignified types like Healy & Gilchrist retired themselves at 35-37 because they started to miss the odd chance & knew they would be letting bowlers down by trying to hang on.

    Brad Haddin was 37 when selectors tapped him on the shoulder & suggested maybe he retire rather than go out being dropped. Guess how old Rod Marsh, the OG great was when he retired... 37.

    Paine missed more chances in that series than he had in the previous 2 seasons just about. He missed them off Lyon- which affected Lyon's ability to influence the series on the final days. If you miss two or three chances off the spinner on day 4 & 5 in consecutive tests it also costs him a chance to bowl at the fresh batsman + the tail who come in so it really is a snowball effect.

    We actually had the 5th bowling option mate- cameron green the 2m tall guy who bowls about 135/140k... came into the game with consecutive 5 wicket hauls in Shield games... you might not have noticed him because I think Paine forgot he existed too.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    In this era of drop-in pitches and weak fast bowlers, even no-hopers like India can hope to compete once in a while. Would have been a different story if Australia had their old pitches and bowlers like Lindwall/Lillee/Thomson at 180 kph etc..
    Only Adelaide & Melbourne were drop in pitches that series.

    GABBA is not a drop in pitch. Neither is Sydney (the board secretly made the new renovated stands so tight that the pitch cranes can't get though, just in case). Adelaide is a drop in but you saw it- it has more life than the boring old Adelaide pitch EVER had. Melbourne is a drop in but they seem to have figured out how to get it right now (they added 18 inches of depth to the drop in section to allow deeper roots & better response).

    The new Perth is also a normal pitch too. The fear that drop ins would take over has gone after everyone saw the poor results from the early drop ins.

  53. #53
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    I know this is a troll thread, but in a perverse way it validates all of @Junaids' concerns about age-related decline.

    Warner, Wade, Paine, and Lyon are all on the wrong side of 30, and it showed.

    The fact is that the Australians were jaded by the fact that a young and dynamic Indian team kept getting up from every punch thrown its way.

    If the Australians had bothered to freshen up the test squad over the last few years rather than come up with ingenious ways of tinkering with a domestic t20 tournament, it might have turned out different rather than relying on the same core group of players to find a way through.

  54. #54
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    Australia should have played Tim Paine as a batsman and had young Josh Phillipe in as a keeper

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    Australia should have played Tim Paine as a batsman and had young Josh Phillipe in as a keeper
    You have searched high & low & found the only keeper in Australia with a worse FC average than Paine & a guy who can't even get a Shield game for his own state & he is the future?

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by viveks View Post
    Starc against the top 6 : averages 33.1 @ 61
    Boult against the top 6 : averages 32.7 @ 68.1
    Yeah, now exclude pink ball Tests where Starc is basically the GOAT.

    Unless you truly believe Starc is in the same stratosphere as Boult as a Test bowler.
    Last edited by Aman; 21st January 2021 at 12:18.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Yeah, now exclude pink ball Tests where Starc is basically the GOAT.

    Unless you truly believe Starc is in the same stratosphere as Boult as a Test bowler.
    Starc is as good a bowler as that trundler. Basically Boult is only good when there is swing on offer. If Starc were to play majority of his matches in NZ and Boult in Australia , there would have been a bigger chasm in their figures.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Yeah, now exclude pink ball Tests where Starc is basically the GOAT.

    Unless you truly believe Starc is in the same stratosphere as Boult as a Test bowler.
    Last year when NZ toured Australia, Mitchell Starc took 15 wickets at 17.86 and a strike rate of 35.9. Boult played one match and got pasted, I'll not go into it.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forward Defensive Push View Post
    Last year when NZ toured Australia, Mitchell Starc took 15 wickets at 17.86 and a strike rate of 35.9. Boult played one match and got pasted, I'll not go into it.
    This. Kiwis should be the last ones to blast Starc.

  60. #60
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    Nice thread.

    The real irony is that I feel that the result of this series proved me right!

    1. Australia slaughtered the geriatric version of India. It was only as Kohli and Yadav and Shami and Jadeja and Ashwin were replaced by younger players that India improved.

    2. The Australian team only had three players in their twenties, one of whom - Green - was a failure with the ball.

    3. Seven days ago a poster teased me, saying that Washington Sundar is exactly the type of bits and pieces Shadab Khan style player I like. Correct!

    4. I keep arguing that in SENA you need four quicks or you exhaust a three-quick attack. Australia had a fourth quick who didn’t take a wicket in 4 Tests, and ended up wearing out the three main quicks. They would have been better off with Green as a specialist batsman at 5 and Mitch Marsh at 6.

    I actually don’t feel like I was wrong. I feel like I was right!

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Nice thread.

    The real irony is that I feel that the result of this series proved me right!

    1. Australia slaughtered the geriatric version of India. It was only as Kohli and Yadav and Shami and Jadeja and Ashwin were replaced by younger players that India improved.

    2. The Australian team only had three players in their twenties, one of whom - Green - was a failure with the ball.

    3. Seven days ago a poster teased me, saying that Washington Sundar is exactly the type of bits and pieces Shadab Khan style player I like. Correct!

    4. I keep arguing that in SENA you need four quicks or you exhaust a three-quick attack. Australia had a fourth quick who didn’t take a wicket in 4 Tests, and ended up wearing out the three main quicks. They would have been better off with Green as a specialist batsman at 5 and Mitch Marsh at 6.

    I actually don’t feel like I was wrong. I feel like I was right!
    Nice satire.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Nice thread.

    The real irony is that I feel that the result of this series proved me right!

    1. Australia slaughtered the geriatric version of India. It was only as Kohli and Yadav and Shami and Jadeja and Ashwin were replaced by younger players that India improved.

    I actually don’t feel like I was wrong. I feel like I was right!
    Jadeja and Ashwin were instrumental in our series win, both were super in Melbourne and Sydney. Even with the bat Jadeja contributed big time at MCG in that match-winning partnership with Rahane, at SCG Ashwin batted for 45 overs battling back spasms to save the test.

    Jadeja was the best player by a mile at MCG, Ashwin matched Cummins in first 3 tests and negated Smith in his favorite ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    Jadeja and Ashwin were instrumental in our series win, both were super in Melbourne and Sydney. Even with the bat Jadeja contributed big time at MCG in that match-winning partnership with Rahane, at SCG Ashwin batted for 45 overs battling back spasms to save the test.

    Jadeja was the best player by a mile at MCG, Ashwin matched Cummins in first 3 tests and negated Smith in his favorite ground.
    You're wasting your time with a well renowned troll here.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Nice thread.

    The real irony is that I feel that the result of this series proved me right!

    1. Australia slaughtered the geriatric version of India. It was only as Kohli and Yadav and Shami and Jadeja and Ashwin were replaced by younger players that India improved.

    2. The Australian team only had three players in their twenties, one of whom - Green - was a failure with the ball.

    3. Seven days ago a poster teased me, saying that Washington Sundar is exactly the type of bits and pieces Shadab Khan style player I like. Correct!

    4. I keep arguing that in SENA you need four quicks or you exhaust a three-quick attack. Australia had a fourth quick who didn’t take a wicket in 4 Tests, and ended up wearing out the three main quicks. They would have been better off with Green as a specialist batsman at 5 and Mitch Marsh at 6.

    I actually don’t feel like I was wrong. I feel like I was right!
    Surely you of all people should know the difference between a pink ball test and a red ball test match, Junaids.
    India lost the pink ball test because of the ball used.

    In fact, it was geriatrics -Ashwin and Rahane who won the MCG test immediately after the Adelaide pink ball test where the ball was moving around.


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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Nice thread.

    The real irony is that I feel that the result of this series proved me right!

    1. Australia slaughtered the geriatric version of India. It was only as Kohli and Yadav and Shami and Jadeja and Ashwin were replaced by younger players that India improved.

    2. The Australian team only had three players in their twenties, one of whom - Green - was a failure with the ball.

    3. Seven days ago a poster teased me, saying that Washington Sundar is exactly the type of bits and pieces Shadab Khan style player I like. Correct!

    4. I keep arguing that in SENA you need four quicks or you exhaust a three-quick attack. Australia had a fourth quick who didn’t take a wicket in 4 Tests, and ended up wearing out the three main quicks. They would have been better off with Green as a specialist batsman at 5 and Mitch Marsh at 6.

    I actually don’t feel like I was wrong. I feel like I was right!
    Jadeja and Ashwin were precisely the reason why India won the second test and saved the third. Also let's not forget about Pujara who India had no chance to win without! Rahane was instrumental in the Second test, and Rohit sharma was quite handy instead of the 21 year old Prithvi Shaw. Lastly India did not have 4 quicks in 3 of the four tests! Lol, You are the king of twisting reality to your mind...

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    This is Australia's 'Aane Do' series.
    Does that put 'asterisk' on our win?


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saurav View Post
    Does that put 'asterisk' on our win?
    The impact my asterisks had on some minds is mind boggling.

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    India is much superior in bench strength than Australia, that is the crux of the matter. You play best Possible India vs best possible Australian side anywhere in the world , India will beat them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    Jadeja and Ashwin were instrumental in our series win, both were super in Melbourne and Sydney. Even with the bat Jadeja contributed big time at MCG in that match-winning partnership with Rahane, at SCG Ashwin batted for 45 overs battling back spasms to save the test.

    Jadeja was the best player by a mile at MCG, Ashwin matched Cummins in first 3 tests and negated Smith in his favorite ground.
    Jadeja is very underrated here , he is a a quality contributor in all three formats , also excellent fielder , priceless player.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Nice thread.

    The real irony is that I feel that the result of this series proved me right!

    1. Australia slaughtered the geriatric version of India. It was only as Kohli and Yadav and Shami and Jadeja and Ashwin were replaced by younger players that India improved.

    2. The Australian team only had three players in their twenties, one of whom - Green - was a failure with the ball.

    3. Seven days ago a poster teased me, saying that Washington Sundar is exactly the type of bits and pieces Shadab Khan style player I like. Correct!

    4. I keep arguing that in SENA you need four quicks or you exhaust a three-quick attack. Australia had a fourth quick who didn’t take a wicket in 4 Tests, and ended up wearing out the three main quicks. They would have been better off with Green as a specialist batsman at 5 and Mitch Marsh at 6.

    I actually don’t feel like I was wrong. I feel like I was right!
    True. If Australia would have played Agar, Pattinson, Jhye Richardson and couple of other domestic performers instead of Lyon, Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc, they would have likely beaten the Indian team. Also resting one of Labu or Smith who played throughout was the need of the our. Could have played Head, Marsh or Usman to rotate Smith or Labu and give them a breather.

    It is common sense that B team members are younger, have more energy and more hunger to be successful when compared to main team players who have already played for 5-10 years. That's what essentially happened here, Australian players because of their age were out of breath and lost motivation notwithstanding their experience and past accomplishments. India was just beneficial of their lucky injuries, with Natarajan, Sundar, Shardul, Gill, Pant all coming good simultaneously while Pujara , Ashwin, Rahane and Vihari simply taking advantage of a tired Australian lineup.

    It was a perfect storm in case of Australia
    Last edited by RajBan; 21st January 2021 at 22:19.

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    It is India's achievement they tired Aussie bowlers. Their greats like Mcgrath at the age of 35 or 36 used to bowl in all five tests of a series and deliver.

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    Dont forget players were almost without any match practice for the last year - no wonder there were so many injuries in India & bowlers getting tired in Australia. More than the age, Corona lockdowns created weird situations for everyone - wont be surprised if the Australian bowlers are back (& stay) in form for the entire Ashes tour.
    Last edited by dildilpak; 21st January 2021 at 23:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RajBan View Post
    True. If Australia would have played Agar, Pattinson, Jhye Richardson and couple of other domestic performers instead of Lyon, Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc, they would have likely beaten the Indian team. Also resting one of Labu or Smith who played throughout was the need of the our. Could have played Head, Marsh or Usman to rotate Smith or Labu and give them a breather.

    It is common sense that B team members are younger, have more energy and more hunger to be successful when compared to main team players who have already played for 5-10 years. That's what essentially happened here, Australian players because of their age were out of breath and lost motivation notwithstanding their experience and past accomplishments. India was just beneficial of their lucky injuries, with Natarajan, Sundar, Shardul, Gill, Pant all coming good simultaneously while Pujara , Ashwin, Rahane and Vihari simply taking advantage of a tired Australian lineup.

    It was a perfect storm in case of Australia
    India have been extremely lucky to catch Australia at the right time.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

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    Naughty Nikhil...


    Pakistan is that kid who never studies for his exams but is surprised when he fails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dildilpak View Post
    Dont forget players were almost without any match practice for the last year - no wonder there were so many injuries in India & bowlers getting tired in Australia. More than the age, Corona lockdowns created weird situations for everyone - wont be surprised if the Australian bowlers are back (& stay) in form for the entire Ashes tour.
    Injuries are understandable when you are suddenly picking up cricket after a long break. But how exactly one quantifies tiring? Starc was firing in at 145 kph on Day 5 of the Gabba. As per your theory, with each match the bowlers were gaining match practise and so wouldn't they be priming up more than getting tired ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    Injuries are understandable when you are suddenly picking up cricket after a long break. But how exactly one quantifies tiring? Starc was firing in at 145 kph on Day 5 of the Gabba. As per your theory, with each match the bowlers were gaining match practise and so wouldn't they be priming up more than getting tired ?
    You could also see the wayward lengths Starc was bowling on the 5th day of the tests. Match practise doesnt make you better in a day, you need consistency to achieve optimal efficiency. Just like runners who havent run for a while, will not suddenly start performing at their peak on day 2 or 3, only because they ran on day 1. I am not saying that the corona-effect is the only reason for Australian bowlers faltering but to attribute Australia bowlers non-performance only to age & not factor in the lack of match practice in the past year is also not a sound theory.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by dildilpak View Post
    You could also see the wayward lengths Starc was bowling on the 5th day of the tests. Match practise doesnt make you better in a day, you need consistency to achieve optimal efficiency. Just like runners who havent run for a while, will not suddenly start performing at their peak on day 2 or 3, only because they ran on day 1. I am not saying that the corona-effect is the only reason for Australian bowlers faltering but to attribute Australia bowlers non-performance only to age & not factor in the lack of match practice in the past year is also not a sound theory.
    That's what I am saying. With each test mat h played, weren't Aussies gaining valuable match practise and optimising themselves as per your theory?

    It seems you have watched Starc bowl for the first time? He bowls wayward time to time. But not as wayward to be manhandled like he was by Gill.

    Meanwhile Cummins still managed to keep it consistent and threatening throughout.

    This is all about mentally tiring them. That India achieved by making them bowl fruitlessly for long periods of time at SCG and then Brisbane. Pujara was a chief factor in both. And then in between Pant comes and demoralised them with his hitting. It was the perfect double whammy.

    Indians had the measure of Aussies - end of story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrongun View Post
    You have searched high & low & found the only keeper in Australia with a worse FC average than Paine & a guy who can't even get a Shield game for his own state & he is the future?
    I was continuing the trend of trolling Junaids

    He's been rambling on for weeks about how Pakistan should play Rizwan as a batsman and have Rohail Nazir (a far inferior gloveman) as the test keeper

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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    I was continuing the trend of trolling Junaids

    He's been rambling on for weeks about how Pakistan should play Rizwan as a batsman and have Rohail Nazir (a far inferior gloveman) as the test keeper
    Ah I missed the in-joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    Jadeja and Ashwin were instrumental in our series win, both were super in Melbourne and Sydney. Even with the bat Jadeja contributed big time at MCG in that match-winning partnership with Rahane, at SCG Ashwin batted for 45 overs battling back spasms to save the test.

    Jadeja was the best player by a mile at MCG, Ashwin matched Cummins in first 3 tests and negated Smith in his favorite ground.
    Yeah they played really well. Ashwin made a huge career mark about performing in foreign conditions & improving/learning from past tours. Jadeja made big contributions too- changed my opinion of him a bit actually.


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