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View Poll Results: How will history remember the 45th President of the United States, Donald Trump?

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  1. #1
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    How will history remember Donald Trump, the 45th President of the United States?

    As the Presidential term for the most divisive world leader in recent history comes to a close, let's reflect on the last 4 years.

    President Donald Trump was either loved or loathed, with no neutral ground. So how do you think history will remember the 45th President?

    A straight-talking man of the people who revolutionised politics and drained the swamp, as some people would think, or a bigoted and racist leader who represented a dark period in American history, as others might say?

    Vote and discuss.


    Arsenal all the way!! (and Pakistan, of course!)

  2. #2
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    He certainly pulled the true colours out of a lot of the American people, for better or for worse. Mostly the latter.


    Arsenal all the way!! (and Pakistan, of course!)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebat View Post
    As the Presidential term for the most divisive world leader in recent history comes to a close, let's reflect on the last 4 years.

    President Donald Trump was either loved or loathed, with no neutral ground. So how do you think history will remember the 45th President?

    A straight-talking man of the people who revolutionised politics and drained the swamp, as some people would think, or a bigoted and racist leader who represented a dark period in American history, as others might say?

    Vote and discuss.
    He didnt drain the swamp. Him and his comrades are the swamp. I dont know too much about domestic politics but internationally Trump advanced the cause of the zionists to an extent never seen before.

    If he had left with dignity I think he could have modelled himself as an eccentric crank and continued in politics. His antics at the end badly tarnished an already poor reputation and he will forever be remembered as the pettiest President in history.

  4. #4
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    2020 was the year that severely damaged the legacy of Trump. His handling of the pandemic was probably the reason he lost the election, and what happened after said election was utterly pathetic.


    Arsenal all the way!! (and Pakistan, of course!)

  5. #5
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    Second worst President ever - maybe better than Buchanan who did nothing as the Union fell apart.

    I suppose his one saving grace was that he didn't start any new wars. But he launched more drone strikes than Obama.

    Otherwise - utterly corrosive. Enabled andf encouraged white supremacy, stirred up the American culture war, pulled USA out of the Paris Agreement, trashed the press, no regard at all for the truth. Vacillated as 400,000 Americans died of COVID - no idea how to deal with it it, no willingness even to try. Psychologically incapable of understanding that he lost in November. Fomented an insurrection against Congress.

    I have heard him described as a symptom. He's not a symptom, he's an opportunist. No ideology, amoral, doing only that which brought him personal advantage on a moment-by-moment basis. Simply a bad man - the only truly bad man to become POTUS that I can think of.

  6. #6
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    The epitome of the American Dream.

    Proving anyone can become President, especially if you're famous in the entertainment business.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    The epitome of the American Dream.

    Proving anyone can become President, especially if you're famous in the entertainment business.
    Reagan already did it. SUCCESSFULLY!

    If anything Trump proved anyone can become president, but will probably suck at it if he/she does not have the moral fiber to cut it.


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

  8. #8
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    A fraud of a man.

    Hopefully will end up in jail

  9. #9
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    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  10. #10
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    Trump will forever be an enigma or maybe even a stigma. I think we may never find out if he truly was put in place by Russia, but there is enough to suggest he was favored by Russia and Russia was favored by him.

    Regardless, he did do some good and a lot of bad. His good was continuing the economic success, and actually improving the situation of the African American employment. His refusal to be dragged into any international conflicts or subterfuge is also admirable and I actually respect that quite a lot.

    However, he failed on the other fronts, i.e uniting the country socially and politically. He abandoned the minorities in favor of his base who remained staunchly white nationalists. In his desire to win re-election and maintain his good graces with his base, he took a lot of missteps. He refused to openly disavow white supremacists and that created a lot of innuendo and empowered the negative elements in the society.
    He also rigidly refused to observe political correctness, citing it was getting ridiculously out of control, which I understand but as the president, you have to maintain some level of political correctness.
    I feel he just went un-PC all the time just for the sake of being un-PC and that once again emboldened his followers to be downright racist and divisive.

    But the "log" that broke the camel's back was his handling of the COVID issue which was probably the only reason he lost re-election. Despite his other flaws, I think he would have won the re-election had it not been for COVID and how it completely threw him off.

    He was solely focused on continuing the successes with the economy and felt that big win was his ticket to re-election. His focus on it became so lopsided that he failed to acknowledge/accept any other challenges. He viewed COVID-19 precautionary measures as a road block to his continued economic successes, even though he knew how big of a threat COVID was, and that 95% of the world was putting the measures in place that his administration vehemently opposed. He also foolishly downplayed the threat of the virus to his own people and his base blindly believed him.

    Somehow all the lies and falsehoods and conspiracy theories he and his team was peddling to the nation was embraced by his followers which created further innuendo and unrest. As they say, in order to hide a lie, you have to tell a 100 more lies and thats what he and his administration did. They doubled and tripled down on everything and it kept blowing up magnificently in their faces. They kept trying to character assassinate some well respected medical people in their efforts to downplay the threat (Dr. Fauci) in the hopes to bring people back to work and pretend it was business as usual.

    But it was not business as usual. As of today, 400,000 Americans are dead, the country has suffered the highest number of casualties in the world due to COVID and I guess we might never know if the numbers could have been controlled, had it been someone else in charge.
    But I do feel a lot of swing voters and some of his base jumped ship when some of the hard facts regarding covid hit them, and that ended up being his downfall.


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

  11. #11
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    WOAT - Worst Of All Time

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Reagan already did it. SUCCESSFULLY!

    If anything Trump proved anyone can become president, but will probably suck at it if he/she does not have the moral fiber to cut it.
    wasn't Nixon in the biz' too ? So much for the party that tells basket ball player to shut up and dribble when they have a political opinion .


    you really can't beat the game. If you earn anything, it's minus taxes. If you buy anything it's plus taxes.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by from_da_lost_dim3nsion View Post
    wasn't Nixon in the biz' too ? So much for the party that tells basket ball player to shut up and dribble when they have a political opinion .
    Nixon was in showbiz? Thats news to me. I did not know that.


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

  14. #14
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    As someone who spent a lot of time on twitter.

    In all seriousness, I just hope US citizens have learnt their lesson and will vote sensibly in years to come.



  15. #15
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    A reset button America needed to get back into focus

  16. #16
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    He is not done yet...will be back soon. Illegaly hijacking white house by leftists doing vote fraud wont last long. Trump will form a new party now of nationalists and back in 2025 elections.
    Last edited by Rajdeep; 20th January 2021 at 21:04.

  17. #17
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    Eventhough I liked the fact that there were no new wars, and an end to existing wars during his time, I feel his tenure was overall chaotic and negative, internally and internationally.

    Only good internal thing he did was by reducing taxes and boosting some businesses. But he caused massive divide, and if it wasn’t for that, US could’ve done well.

    Internationally he did stopped wars but gave rise to trade wars, which didn’t benefit him. He pulled out of paris accord and WHO during a pandemic which was absurd.

    I think world is better without Trump as US president.

  18. #18
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    We definitely are gonna miss making fun of him though... life is not the same after the Twitter ban.

  19. #19
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    He was the only American President who did not give free financial aid to Pakistan and did not say a single word of condemnation on the killings of Muslims in India. Other than that, if he stayed a bit longer, he would create more enemies than friends. Man Imran Khan needs a lot of financial aid to steer his poor country. This is the right time for western countries like the USA to make their aid worth it as we have an honest leader at the helm who could spend this aid in the right way. But alas, Trump sidetracked him. Let's hope things may get better for the sake of Pakistan's progress and get the required financial aid by Biden. He is quoting the right hadees of Muhammad (PBUH) , hopefully, he has a heart for helping underdeveloping countries. And makes good choices not only for helping American people but also people worldwide.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    He is not done yet...will be back soon. Illegaly hijacking white house by leftists doing vote fraud wont last long. Trump will form a new party now of nationalists and back in 2025 elections.
    Define illegally hijacking leftists, please. Biden won the election fair and square. Trump lost! GET OVER IT!


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyboy2018 View Post
    He was the only American President who did not give free financial aid to Pakistan and did not say a single word of condemnation on the killings of Muslims in India. Other than that, if he stayed a bit longer, he would create more enemies than friends. Man Imran Khan needs a lot of financial aid to steer his poor country. This is the right time for western countries like the USA to make their aid worth it as we have an honest leader at the helm who could spend this aid in the right way. But alas, Trump sidetracked him. Let's hope things may get better for the sake of Pakistan's progress and get the required financial aid by Biden. He is quoting the right hadees of Muhammad (PBUH) , hopefully, he has a heart for helping underdeveloping countries. And makes good choices not only for helping American people but also people worldwide.
    Americans have so much sympathy for the whole of humanity they just hand out free aid willy nilly to every one right?

    Grow up, kid. No such thing as freebies in this world especially when it comes to America. Whatever USA gives Pakistan, is a payment for our help in their war on "terror", for using our land and our bases and for logistical support.

    Hamarey phoophi ke putter nahi hein american jo eidi mein millions of dollars detey rahein her saal.


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Americans have so much sympathy for the whole of humanity they just hand out free aid willy nilly to every one right?

    Grow up, kid. No such thing as freebies in this world especially when it comes to America. Whatever USA gives Pakistan, is a payment for our help in their war on "terror", for using our land and our bases and for logistical support.

    Hamarey phoophi ke putter nahi hein american jo eidi mein millions of dollars detey rahein her saal.
    Well, Trump said otherwise. In exchange for billions of dollars worth of aid, the USA only received lies from Pakistan. Osama Bin Laden was living nearby and Pakistan's secret agencies had no clue about it. These are not my words. Without solid evidence, he could not openly accuse Pakistan of such lies.

  23. #23
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    The media will miss Trump. How are they going to fill those column inches and sell news now?

    You don't what you got until its gone.

    I for one shall miss him. Here's hoping he returns in 2024 after Biden/Harris torpedo USA into further polarisation.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    The media will miss Trump. How are they going to fill those column inches and sell news now?

    You don't what you got until its gone.

    I for one shall miss him. Here's hoping he returns in 2024 after Biden/Harris torpedo USA into further polarisation.
    if senate convicts him ( which seems likely now that turtle mitch jumped ship ) he will not be able to run for office ever again .


    you really can't beat the game. If you earn anything, it's minus taxes. If you buy anything it's plus taxes.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyboy2018 View Post
    Well, Trump said otherwise. In exchange for billions of dollars worth of aid, the USA only received lies from Pakistan. Osama Bin Laden was living nearby and Pakistan's secret agencies had no clue about it. These are not my words. Without solid evidence, he could not openly accuse Pakistan of such lies.
    Like you said no solid evidence. But there is “solid evidence” the so called “aid” is actually payment for services rendered and space provided for their war. They don’t want it, they are welcome to keep us out of it. Imran Khan in his meeting with trump did not solicit any such services and he didn’t get any such offers of “aid”
    What does that tell you?


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by from_da_lost_dim3nsion View Post
    wasn't Nixon in the biz' too ? So much for the party that tells basket ball player to shut up and dribble when they have a political opinion .
    No, he was a lawyer when he wasn’t Ike’s Veep or POTUS.

  27. #27
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    Donald Trump vows 'we will be back' as he leaves White House after four years as president

    Donald Trump has left the White House after four years as US president, but insisted: "We will be back in some form."

    Mr Trump boycotted Joe Biden's inauguration ceremony in Washington DC and instead flew to Florida to stay at his Mar-a-Lago resort.

    He smiled and waved at supporters who greeted him in Florida, with some waving flags and holding placards including one which read: "Still my president."

    Before boarding Air Force One, Mr Trump said it had been "an incredible" four years and thanked his family watching on, with some of his children appearing emotional.

    "As the athletes would say, we left it all on the field," he said.

    "It has been my greatest honour and privilege to have been your president."

    Mr Trump, who has refused to publicly concede to Mr Biden, wished the new administration "great luck and great success" - but said: "We will be back in some form."

    Earlier, as he walked out of the White House, Mr Trump said: "I just want to say goodbye but hopefully it's not a long-term goodbye. We'll see each other again."

    Mr Trump is the first president to skip his successor's inauguration since Andrew Johnson in 1869, and only the fourth to have done so in history.

    However he did follow one presidential tradition, with the White House confirming Mr Trump left a note for Mr Biden - although no further details about the message have been revealed.

    Mr Trump arrived in Florida as guests, including former US presidents Barack Obama, Bill Clinton and George W Bush, began taking their seats at Mr Biden's inauguration.

    Television coverage of the ceremony was playing on the plane during Mr Trump's flight, the Associated Press reported.

    Mr Trump's family was also on board and the outgoing president spent some of the flight meeting staff who went up to say goodbye.

    As he left the White House earlier, Mr Trump held hands with First Lady Melania Trump as he walked across the lawn before waving as he boarded the Marine One helicopter.

    The helicopter took him to Joint Base Andrews where Air Force One was waiting to fly him to Florida.

    His send-off was complete with a red carpet up to the steps of the plane, a military band and a 21-gun salute.

    Mrs Trump also spoke briefly at the event, saying: "Being your first lady was my greatest honour."

    Vice President Mike Pence skipped the event, citing the logistical challenges of getting from the air base to the inauguration ceremony.

    In his final recorded address as president on Tuesday, Mr Trump said he will "pray for the success" of Mr Biden's administration - but claimed the political movement he created "is only just beginning".

    He said: "As I prepare to hand power over to a new administration at noon on Wednesday, I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning. There's never been anything like it.

    "The belief that a nation must serve its citizens will not dwindle but instead only grow stronger by the day."

    Mr Trump's final action as president saw him pardon or grant clemency to 143 people including his former chief strategist Steve Bannon and rapper Lil Wayne.

    Bannon, who was fired by Mr Trump in August 2017, has pleaded not guilty to charges accusing him of swindling Trump supporters over an effort to raise private funds to build the US-Mexico border wall.

    Wayne pleaded guilty last month to possessing a loaded, gold-plated handgun on a private flight in 2019 and is due to be sentenced next week.

    Mr Biden's inauguration ceremony took place in front of a heavily fortified US Capitol, where a mob of Trump supporters stormed the building two weeks ago.

    The violence, which left five people dead, prompted the US House of Representatives to impeach Mr Trump last week for an unprecedented second time.

    He was charged with incitement of insurrection after he was accused of firing up the rioters with false claims that
    November's presidential election was stolen with millions of fraudulent votes.

    Instead of supporters gathering to see Mr Biden sworn in, the National Mall was covered by nearly 200,000 flags and 56 pillars of light meant to represent people from US states and territories.

    https://news.sky.com/story/donald-tr...ident-12193425

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    No, he was a lawyer when he wasn’t Ike’s Veep or POTUS.
    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0633271/..._=nm_ov_bio_sm


    you really can't beat the game. If you earn anything, it's minus taxes. If you buy anything it's plus taxes.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by from_da_lost_dim3nsion View Post
    Fake news. He wasn’t in any films and wrote no scripts.

  30. #30
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    POTUS 42, 43, 44 and 46 are at Arlington Cemetery now. 39 and 41 are too elderly to travel now.

    45 will never be a member of that august fraternity.

  31. #31
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    He will always be a pariah.. and rightly so..


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

  32. #32
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    Iran are not happy with him but the rest of the world will remember Trump as one President who wasnt thisty for their blood or destruction of their country. Oboma is hated for his fake acting liberalism when he was a wolf in sheeps clothing, the same will be the case for Sleepy Joe.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Iran are not happy with him but the rest of the world will remember Trump as one President who wasnt thisty for their blood or destruction of their country. Oboma is hated for his fake acting liberalism when he was a wolf in sheeps clothing, the same will be the case for Sleepy Joe.
    Add Palestinians to the list of unhappy countries. Trump & Kushner has advanced the zionist plan 10 fold with his arab cronies. I guess the silver lining is that its been a wake up call for the Muslim masses that Arab leadership have sold their souls and perhaps because of this we will see turkish-iranian-Pakistani bloc develop overtime.

    In fact if you believe in religious eschatology - Trumps activities with his Arab cronies is a manifestation of the dajjalic/anti-christ plan.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    Add Palestinians to the list of unhappy countries. Trump & Kushner has advanced the zionist plan 10 fold with his arab cronies. I guess the silver lining is that its been a wake up call for the Muslim masses that Arab leadership have sold their souls and perhaps because of this we will see turkish-iranian-Pakistani bloc develop overtime.

    In fact if you believe in religious eschatology - Trumps activities with his Arab cronies is a manifestation of the dajjalic/anti-christ plan.
    Palestinians arent so stupid, esp after learning over decades both Reps and Demos are just different cheeks on the same backside. Trump was only continuing the policies of Obomber who was continuing the policies of Bush and so on. It was Odrama who first stated in 2008 ""Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." Biden wont change this even though it goes against Int law.

    Trump also killed less Muslims than Obama. As for Islamic eschatology it pretty much says these politicians in the west are all slaves of you know who. You're a smart guy, take a step back and look, when it comes to foriegn policy both parties are pretty much on the same page, with slightly different rhetoric.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Palestinians arent so stupid, esp after learning over decades both Reps and Demos are just different cheeks on the same backside. Trump was only continuing the policies of Obomber who was continuing the policies of Bush and so on. It was Odrama who first stated in 2008 ""Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." Biden wont change this even though it goes against Int law.

    Trump also killed less Muslims than Obama. As for Islamic eschatology it pretty much says these politicians in the west are all slaves of you know who. You're a smart guy, take a step back and look, when it comes to foriegn policy both parties are pretty much on the same page, with slightly different rhetoric.
    oh 100% both sides of the same coin I completely agree. Obama/Bush did it with bombs and Trump has done it with financial threats. All advancing the same cause.

    The thing about all other regimes whether democrat or republican is that they didn't bend to the Israelis so easily. Theywas slightly less tolerant of aggression and Obama's overtures to Iran put the Arabs in their place slightly. Trump gave them what they want with no contest. The long term effects of this could be far greater than the short-term benefit of less bombs dropped.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    oh 100% both sides of the same coin I completely agree. Obama/Bush did it with bombs and Trump has done it with financial threats. All advancing the same cause.

    The thing about all other regimes whether democrat or republican is that they didn't bend to the Israelis so easily. Theywas slightly less tolerant of aggression and Obama's overtures to Iran put the Arabs in their place slightly. Trump gave them what they want with no contest. The long term effects of this could be far greater than the short-term benefit of less bombs dropped.
    I dont agree. Since the first day Trump took office, the Israelis were pressuring him to go to war with Iran. He ended the nuke deal, sanctions and killing their general but never went to war. His own words were, I dont want to do it.

    Biden and Harris are much more pro-zionists and may do something stupid to appease their lords in Tel Aviv. Talks and policies are always the same , the only difference is which leader actually kills more and destroys more nations.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I dont agree. Since the first day Trump took office, the Israelis were pressuring him to go to war with Iran. He ended the nuke deal, sanctions and killing their general but never went to war. His own words were, I dont want to do it.

    Biden and Harris are much more pro-zionists and may do something stupid to appease their lords in Tel Aviv. Talks and policies are always the same , the only difference is which leader actually kills more and destroys more nations.
    Biden will not rejoin the Iran deal. If Biden really cared he would've at least mention the deal as part of his EOs.

    Of course Biden is a warmonger; he championed the war on Iraq in 2003.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Biden will not rejoin the Iran deal. If Biden really cared he would've at least mention the deal as part of his EOs.

    Of course Biden is a warmonger; he championed the war on Iraq in 2003.
    He was only 1 of 77 Senators to back the war. What is worse is he even tried to get other Demos on board by drafting a resolution for war, slightly less toned than Bush. The Iraq invasion and destruction is the one of the worst crimes against humanity in history. Babies are being born in Iraq with deformaties, do you think this keeps Biden up at night? Hell no, the man is evil.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

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    He was a decent president. Made some good moves politically.

    Awful human being though.

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    Probably not very fondly but I guess it will depend on how the Biden administration performs.

    People tend to forget as time goes on. I remember when George W Bush used to be the most hated person but there is not much talk about him now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedzee View Post
    Eventhough I liked the fact that there were no new wars, and an end to existing wars during his time, I feel his tenure was overall chaotic and negative, internally and internationally.

    Only good internal thing he did was by reducing taxes and boosting some businesses. But he caused massive divide, and if it wasnít for that, US couldíve done well.

    Internationally he did stopped wars but gave rise to trade wars, which didnít benefit him. He pulled out of paris accord and WHO during a pandemic which was absurd.

    I think world is better without Trump as US president.
    The 'no wars' wasn't down to him. He did his utter best to start a war with Iran. If India killed Bajwa we'd attack back viciously, that's what he did to Iran. Its only due to the fact Iran knew if they retaliated they'd be battered, which stopped a catastrophic war, yet another one on Pakistan's doorstep. He also absolutely would have showed how much of a big man he is by attacking Syria, unluckily for him the Russians and the Turks are deeply embedded in Syria and Assad has the war won by the time the orange duffer came along.

    He was a tool and tried to destroy peace wherever he went.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    The 'no wars' wasn't down to him. He did his utter best to start a war with Iran. If India killed Bajwa we'd attack back viciously, that's what he did to Iran. Its only due to the fact Iran knew if they retaliated they'd be battered, which stopped a catastrophic war, yet another one on Pakistan's doorstep. He also absolutely would have showed how much of a big man he is by attacking Syria, unluckily for him the Russians and the Turks are deeply embedded in Syria and Assad has the war won by the time the orange duffer came along.

    He was a tool and tried to destroy peace wherever he went.
    He removed troops from syria, Iraq and ended 19 years war in Afghanistan. Credit where it’s due. Obama really messed the whole international peace with wars in Syria, escalation in Afghanistan, pakistan, regime change in Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen. Let’s face it, trump was a goof who did what he said. Obama (and Biden) pretended to be liberal and peace loving yet their actions show they were war mongers. Leaders who say something and do something else are way more dangerous.

    In that sense, I give Trump the only good thing he did, was not to start a new war, and end existing ones.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedzee View Post
    He removed troops from syria, Iraq and ended 19 years war in Afghanistan. Credit where itís due. Obama really messed the whole international peace with wars in Syria, escalation in Afghanistan, pakistan, regime change in Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen. Letís face it, trump was a goof who did what he said. Obama (and Biden) pretended to be liberal and peace loving yet their actions show they were war mongers. Leaders who say something and do something else are way more dangerous.

    In that sense, I give Trump the only good thing he did, was not to start a new war, and end existing ones.
    I consider Obama to be a war criminal too. However this myth of Trump being peaceful is a complete lie. He tried to pull of a war with Iran, a war that would have 100 percent spilled in Pakistan and would have been a disaster we have not faced since 1971. He would have done the same in Syria but the war there was winding down already and the US wasn't the main player anymore. So no, he didn't end anything at all and would have hammered Syria too if he could have. As for Egypt, not sure why you're praising Trump. He loves all dictators except Syria. And I can't believe you mentioned Yemen, where the US even under Trump completely supported the scumbag Saudi regime who absolutely horribly pounded the Yemenis into the stone age killing untold amount of children in the process.

    Biden won't be a dove but he won't empower all right wing racists in the West Trump did from UK to the US and with someone like Imran Khan who's not a traitor like Nawaz I expect better relations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    I consider Obama to be a war criminal too. However this myth of Trump being peaceful is a complete lie. He tried to pull of a war with Iran, a war that would have 100 percent spilled in Pakistan and would have been a disaster we have not faced since 1971. He would have done the same in Syria but the war there was winding down already and the US wasn't the main player anymore. So no, he didn't end anything at all and would have hammered Syria too if he could have. As for Egypt, not sure why you're praising Trump. He loves all dictators except Syria. And I can't believe you mentioned Yemen, where the US even under Trump completely supported the scumbag Saudi regime who absolutely horribly pounded the Yemenis into the stone age killing untold amount of children in the process.

    Biden won't be a dove but he won't empower all right wing racists in the West Trump did from UK to the US and with someone like Imran Khan who's not a traitor like Nawaz I expect better relations.
    See I understand where you are coming from but the end result is, there were no wars. This is the only CREDIT I give trump. Apart from that, he was not good for US and the world.

    100% agreed, that he gave rise to right wing extremists, not just in US, but around the world.

    Let’s hope Biden is not a copy of Obama in regards to foreign policy. Yes, this time I am quite happy that we have Imran Khan who can actually respond back. We don’t have a puppet like zArdari or nawaz who will bend over for a US president. Infact, I remember when Shahid Khaqan Abbasi for the PM in Jan-2018, Trump did a series of anti-Pakistan tweets. Guess who replied to him, Imran Khan. Eventhough he wasn’t a PM but he rightfully and diplomatically responded and that was one of the first thing that showed Pakistanis that he is going to fight for them internationally.

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    Think Trump realizes this better than anyone else, that history doesn't look kindly upon losers.

    He lost due to his incompetence and trust in woeful advisers.

    Even all the good things that he tried to do during the four years will be forgotten.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedzee View Post
    See I understand where you are coming from but the end result is, there were no wars. This is the only CREDIT I give trump. Apart from that, he was not good for US and the world.

    100% agreed, that he gave rise to right wing extremists, not just in US, but around the world.

    Let’s hope Biden is not a copy of Obama in regards to foreign policy. Yes, this time I am quite happy that we have Imran Khan who can actually respond back. We don’t have a puppet like zArdari or nawaz who will bend over for a US president. Infact, I remember when Shahid Khaqan Abbasi for the PM in Jan-2018, Trump did a series of anti-Pakistan tweets. Guess who replied to him, Imran Khan. Eventhough he wasn’t a PM but he rightfully and diplomatically responded and that was one of the first thing that showed Pakistanis that he is going to fight for them internationally.
    Yes but the credit is not Trumps. If person A stabs person B and person B doesn't retaliate does person A get the credit for no conflict? The rest of your post I agree with. Imran Khan will be firm as I know PPP esp will beg the US for help. That's guaranteed.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedzee View Post
    He removed troops from syria, Iraq and ended 19 years war in Afghanistan. Credit where it’s due. Obama really messed the whole international peace with wars in Syria, escalation in Afghanistan, pakistan, regime change in Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen. Let’s face it, trump was a goof who did what he said. Obama (and Biden) pretended to be liberal and peace loving yet their actions show they were war mongers. Leaders who say something and do something else are way more dangerous.

    In that sense, I give Trump the only good thing he did, was not to start a new war, and end existing ones.

    Tunisia and Egypt were popular uprisings.

    The Syrian war started as a popular uprising against Assad and became a civil war.

    Pakistan could have helped USA find Bin Laden and his lieutenants when they moved to the tribal areas but tried to play both sides, hence the drone strikes.

    Obama reduced troop deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan every year he was in power.

    Libya was not a regime change attempt, it was a no-fly zone mandated by the UN and enforced by NATO and the Arab League to prevent Gaddafi from slaughtering his own civilians.

    The Yemeni Civil War began as another expression of the Arab Spring and currently involves several Gulf states. Congress voted to end support for the Saudis in 2019 but Trump vetoed it.

    Trump launched more drone strikes than Obama.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Tunisia and Egypt were popular uprisings.

    The Syrian war started as a popular uprising against Assad and became a civil war.

    Pakistan could have helped USA find Bin Laden and his lieutenants when they moved to the tribal areas but tried to play both sides, hence the drone strikes.

    Obama reduced troop deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan every year he was in power.

    Libya was not a regime change attempt, it was a no-fly zone mandated by the UN and enforced by NATO and the Arab League to prevent Gaddafi from slaughtering his own civilians.

    The Yemeni Civil War began as another expression of the Arab Spring and currently involves several Gulf states. Congress voted to end support for the Saudis in 2019 but Trump vetoed it.

    Trump launched more drone strikes than Obama.
    None of this is a touch on Biden who championed the war in Iraq in 2003.

  49. #49
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    America is known for regime change around the world. This is a fact. Trump did not follow suit of past Presidents. This is also a fact.

    If Biden is such the moral peaceful President, why doesn't he announce USA will rejoin the Iran deal?

    Answers on a post card please.

  50. #50
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    Trump will also be remembered for trying to form a friendship with the likes of North Korea, the first President to extend the olive branch.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    None of this is a touch on Biden who championed the war in Iraq in 2003.
    Thread is about Trump's legacy. I rebutted some incorrect statements about his record in the context of the situation he inherited.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Thread is about Trump's legacy. I rebutted some incorrect statements about his record in the context of the situation he inherited.
    Yup I realise its a Trump legacy thread but to understand his legacy we need context.

    Trump pulled USA out of the Iran deal and imposed tarrifs on China. Bad mistakes? If so, why doesn't Biden announce that USA will rejoin the Iran deal and lift the tariffs?

    If Biden doesn't rejoin the Iran deal, or lift the tarrifs, then Trump"s legacy will be clear, he'd be vindicated and he did the right thing with Iran, and China tarrifs for that matter.

  53. #53
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    The only US President of the 21st Century who didn't invade another country.

    Here's betting Biden is going to be arm-twisted by the military brass to march into some Middle Eastern land to spread democracy. Mark this post.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    POTUS 42, 43, 44 and 46 are at Arlington Cemetery now. 39 and 41 are too elderly to travel now.

    45 will never be a member of that august fraternity.
    #41 died in 2018.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    The only US President of the 21st Century who didn't invade another country.

    Here's betting Biden is going to be arm-twisted by the military brass to march into some Middle Eastern land to spread democracy. Mark this post.
    Realistically who can he invade? Iraq is done for. Syrian war is over. Lebanon is a mess. Iran he won't touch. Thanks to past US policies there's noone left to invade in the middle East

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    The only US President of the 21st Century who didn't invade another country.

    Here's betting Biden is going to be arm-twisted by the military brass to march into some Middle Eastern land to spread democracy. Mark this post.
    Yup, and Uncle Joe supporters will come out with excuses along the lines of Democracy must prevail without realising they opposed Trump's democratic win in 2016 and tried to get rid him for 4 years by blaming the Russians etc.

    Trump's legacy in 2 words : Teflon Don.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    #41 died in 2018.
    I liked old Poppy. The only Republican POTUS in my lifetime I thought was good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Yup I realise its a Trump legacy thread but to understand his legacy we need context.

    Trump pulled USA out of the Iran deal and imposed tarrifs on China. Bad mistakes? If so, why doesn't Biden announce that USA will rejoin the Iran deal and lift the tariffs?

    If Biden doesn't rejoin the Iran deal, or lift the tarrifs, then Trump"s legacy will be clear, he'd be vindicated and he did the right thing with Iran, and China tarrifs for that matter.
    Biden's on Day Two. COVID is the immediate challenge for the First Hundred Days.

    Back to Trump's legacy.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    Realistically who can he invade? Iraq is done for. Syrian war is over. Lebanon is a mess. Iran he won't touch. Thanks to past US policies there's noone left to invade in the middle East
    A few could be:

    1. Turkey - if they get too cocky, the screws can be turned on them.
    2. Yemen - do what the Saudis cannot finish for the life of them.
    3. North Korea (wildcard) - call out their nuclear bluff and take them out.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I liked old Poppy. The only Republican POTUS in my lifetime I thought was good.
    Why was he voted out after only a 4-year term, like Trump? The US saw success in the Gulf War (the only war since WW2 they've actually won), and the Soviet Union collapsed during his reign. What went wrong for him?


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Why was he voted out after only a 4-year term, like Trump? The US saw success in the Gulf War (the only war since WW2 they've actually won), and the Soviet Union collapsed during his reign. What went wrong for him?
    To be technically correct, USA has never won a war on its own, had to rely on its allies in every war.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Biden's on Day Two. COVID is the immediate challenge for the First Hundred Days.

    Back to Trump's legacy.
    Covid might be top priority but Biden announced a litany of EOs that would reverse Trump's decisions, including immigration, minimum wage etc.

    Back to Biden endorsing Trump's legacy.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Covid might be top priority but Biden announced a litany of EOs that would reverse Trump's decisions, including immigration, minimum wage etc.

    Back to Biden endorsing Trump's legacy.
    Correction, I meant Paris accord, immigration, student loans instead of minimum wage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    A few could be:

    1. Turkey - if they get too cocky, the screws can be turned on them.
    2. Yemen - do what the Saudis cannot finish for the life of them.
    3. North Korea (wildcard) - call out their nuclear bluff and take them out.
    There's no way the US is ever invading Turkey. Never mind another NATO member. The Turks are barely able to contain the refugee wave from the EU.

    Yemen is already in rubble. Nothing left to invade.

    North Korea has nukes. No chance at all. Even without nukes they'd ruin Seoul.

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    Most of the historian in US debating where to put Trump among the three worst president US ever had.

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    Uncle Joe will announce to the world he will rejoin the Paris accord. But the same uncle will not announce he will rejoin the Iran accord

    Trump has been vindicated. His legacy.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by moghul View Post
    Most of the historian in US debating where to put Trump among the three worst president US ever had.
    Oh no! Historians debating!

    These same academicida voted Hitler and Stalin as person of the year in Times magazine.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Oh no! Historians debating!

    These same academicida voted Hitler and Stalin as person of the year in Times magazine.
    So all the academics, all the liberals, all the left wingers are liars, cheats, bad for humanity and evil and all the other adjectives we can associate with them?

    You take considerable time out of your daily life to come and rant here, I have seen you post maybe a dozen times a day and basically the gist of them all is what I mentioned up there.

    May I ask what you are trying to prove here?
    Will you not send your kids to school and colleges because all academics are evil?

    Do you not believe some people are maybe occupying the middle ground as opposed to all hanging totally left?


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    So all the academics, all the liberals, all the left wingers are liars, cheats, bad for humanity and evil and all the other adjectives we can associate with them?

    You take considerable time out of your daily life to come and rant here, I have seen you post maybe a dozen times a day and basically the gist of them all is what I mentioned up there.

    May I ask what you are trying to prove here?
    Will you not send your kids to school and colleges because all academics are evil?

    Do you not believe some people are maybe occupying the middle ground as opposed to all hanging totally left?
    Irony is he lives in a secular, liberal, free thinking democracy. If we all lived by his beliefs and rules in a country he ran we'd be oppressed to an unimaginable degree. Secular, free thinking societies provide a lot of these keyboard warrior morons a platform to chat sh1t, you'd think they'd appreciate that freedom.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Why was he voted out after only a 4-year term, like Trump? The US saw success in the Gulf War (the only war since WW2 they've actually won), and the Soviet Union collapsed during his reign. What went wrong for him?

    He said “Read my lips, no new taxes.”

    Then he raised taxes.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by moghul View Post
    Most of the historian in US debating where to put Trump among the three worst president US ever had.
    He’s right at the bottom here.....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor..._United_States

    Interestingly they put Washington at the top. Guess he was the OG....

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    Irony is he lives in a secular, liberal, free thinking democracy. If we all lived by his beliefs and rules in a country he ran we'd be oppressed to an unimaginable degree. Secular, free thinking societies provide a lot of these keyboard warrior morons a platform to chat sh1t, you'd think they'd appreciate that freedom.
    Yes, it’s truly ironic that these people live in the west, and up until ka few years ago, most western countries were all about people with differing opinions and views living together in harmony working towards a common goal, a society where everybody can achieve their goals.

    But it’s only lately the populist approaches started especially in the US where the opposition MUST be demonized to prove they are wrong. Subsequently, the left started behaving similarly as well, and if you don’t agree with me, you are the devil kind of attitude crept in.

    Point is: liberalism is all about giving people room to be who they want to be and not imposing any judgments. The only time a judgment is imposed is when you start fraternizing with the nazis, and start behaving like one. Well that’s plain unacceptable.

    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, must be a duck. Are we supposed to say “dear sir, I value your views and opinions that all whites are better, Africa is nothing but ***hole countries, Muslims are bad, liberals just want to kill us all, so we must kill them first” and then roll over and let them trample all over you? I don’t think so. But if I fight back, somehow I am the radical? Haha
    How much sense does that make?

    Live and let live, man. Without arguing about rigged elections and whatnot. There is no truth to any of it. There are good reasons for the academics and the educated people on both sides of the aisle are absolutely abhorred by trump. And I’m sure history will paint the true and ugly picture of him in due time.


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

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    History will have the same response as his contemporaries.

    A character who showed that the rules of politics seldom change.

    If you strike the right chord, the chorus will get loud enough to sing your tune and march.

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    Snr Bush was a one term president because he couldn't oust Saddam. In the eye of the American public, a war mongering nation had failed, especially after Vietnam, has nothing to do with taxes when you have body bags coming back from Iraq and campaigning for a second term. A disaster for a President who was former head of the CIA.

    This humiliation is the reason why Jnr Bush invaded Iraq on the back of fake news and fabricated evidence. To vindicate his father We all know how it turned out to be, with Biden supporting an illegal war, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

    USA's biggest enemies are China and Russia. Why no war against these said nations? Cos USA is a bully and only picks on the weak. But wait, a white Amreekan citizen voting for Trump is racist, but the voting for a warmongering President is democratic.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Oh no! Historians debating!

    These same academicida voted Hitler and Stalin as person of the year in Times magazine.
    What did they mean when Time did? What was their rationale?

    What are you views on Hitler?

    I donít think PJW has done a video on it, so you might not want to answer.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    He said “Read my lips, no new taxes.”

    Then he raised taxes.
    Didn't seem to stop Obama from getting a new term ("Read my lips, no new wars"). Or Clinton ("Read my lips, no new women").


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Didn't seem to stop Obama from getting a new term ("Read my lips, no new wars"). Or Clinton ("Read my lips, no new women").
    Obama and Clinton didn’t say those things, did they?

    Obama won a second term because he got USA out of the Great Recession, and killed Bin Laden. Clinton won a second term because of the economic boom in his first term.

    Bush 41 actually said “Read my lips - no new taxes”, then broke that emphatically stated campaign promise and lost support.

  78. #78
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    Schooled Biden in every debate.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  79. #79
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    As adherents of the QAnon conspiracy theory face the reality of Joe Biden’s presidency – something they believed could never happen – the movement appears to be searching for a way forward as some cast aside their beliefs, according to researchers.

    QAnon is a loose set of unfounded beliefs based on the refuted notion that a cannibalistic cabal of liberal elites working to traffic children and harvest their blood to remain young at the behest of either interdimensional demons or psychic vampires, depending on the adherent.

    Adherents believed former President Donald Trump was chosen to defeat the cabal, based on “drops” by an anonymous figure called “Q” on the 4Chan imageboard.

    The conspiracy gained momentum in 2017, after Q made his first cryptic drop, and subsumed numerous other unfounded theories, like those from the anti-vaccine movement that claims jabs cause ailments, and inspired violence, including plots to kill then-candidate Biden.

    Coming to terms
    As Biden – part of the liberal cabal, according to Q beliefs – took office, some on platforms like the encrypted messaging app Telegram and far-right social media site Gab pushed for adherents to “trust the plan”, a common phrase referring to a nebulous plan for the military and Trump to intervene.

    One user told his Q compatriots to hold the line for “a few more hours, maybe even a few more days” in case a surprise twist was coming, according to a screenshot shared by a senior researcher at Media Matters for America, Alex Kaplan.

    “If you choose not to trust Q at this moment, trust DJT,” the user said, using Trump’s initials.

    But others appeared to realise they had been fooled. “We’ve been had, it’s over,” another user wrote.

    The QAnon conspiracy travelled from one imageboard to another as domains that hosted such sites banned them. QAnon’s home base ahead of Biden’s inauguration was 8kun, a successor to 4chan, the site where Q released his first drop.

    Even Jim Watkins, a leading figure among Q adherents due to his role as 8kun’s administrator who stepped up his public profile after Trump lost the November election, has admitted QAnon’s defeat.

    “We have a new president sworn in and it is our responsibility as citizens to respect the Constitution regardless of whether or not we agree with the specifics,” Watkins said in a statement after Biden was inaugurated, telling people to return to their lives.

    But Media Matters President Angelo Carusone told Al Jazeera the movement is not likely to disappear.

    Carusone said in an interview that while original Q adherents, who viewed Trump as a type of saviour, could look to other groups, “new blood within the QAnon movement is sort of primed and ready to fight this fight.”

    QAnon gained fresh momentum in April, as the COVID-19 pandemic rapidly spread in the United States and people looked to vaccines for hope.

    “That was when they began to cross-pollinate with the anti-vaxxers on Facebook, so you had a massive influx of anti-vaxxers into the QAnon movement and vice versa,” Caursone said.

    He warned the myriad QAnon views will likely begin to seep into Biden’s COVID-19 response. He also warned that others will become “increasingly radicalised” on the far right.

    Far-right outreach
    Dr Heidi Beirich, co-founder and chief strategy officer at the Global Project Against Hate and Extremism, has similar concerns.

    She told Al Jazeera QAnon adherents seem “like a ripe group of people to target for recruitment”.

    Though QAnon supporters are thought to be mostly white, the conspiracy did not deal in overtly racist rhetoric, favouring coded language.

    Beirich, who has researched the far right for decades, said the militia movement is the most likely new home for QAnon and Trump supporters.

    “They certainly have become more ant-immigrant and more anti-Muslim in recent years, but they don’t portray themselves as white supremacists.”

    But members of the militia movement were allegedly active in the deadly riot at the US Capitol on January 6.

    Edward Caldwell, a leader of the Oath Keepers, a militia that often recruits former military members, has been charged with conspiracy for his alleged role in the riot by US prosecutors.

    Stewart Rhodes, the Oath Keepers founder, called on militia members to be ready to “defend themselves” from the Biden administration.

    “It’s just amazing that Trump let the election be stolen out from under him and to let the country be stolen like this”, Rhodes said on conspiracy theorist Alex Jones’ programme on Wednesday.

    “You needed to be raising local militias in your towns and counties, and like the Founders did, you need to then nullify, refuse to comply, and when they come for you, you defend yourselves.”

    It remains unclear what will become of QAnon, and Beirich said it is possible that many involved in the movement could return to their lives, as Watkins urged.

    Still, grievances about an election perceived as stolen will remain, and Beirich worried about a recent YouGov poll that showed 20 percent of voters, including 45 percent of Republicans, approved of the storming of the Capitol.

    “That’s 20 million people who don’t believe this election was fair and don’t believe our institutions are legit,” she concluded.

    Al Jazeera


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Snr Bush was a one term president because he couldn't oust Saddam. In the eye of the American public, a war mongering nation had failed, especially after Vietnam, has nothing to do with taxes when you have body bags coming back from Iraq and campaigning for a second term. A disaster for a President who was former head of the CIA.

    This humiliation is the reason why Jnr Bush invaded Iraq on the back of fake news and fabricated evidence. To vindicate his father We all know how it turned out to be, with Biden supporting an illegal war, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

    USA's biggest enemies are China and Russia. Why no war against these said nations? Cos USA is a bully and only picks on the weak. But wait, a white Amreekan citizen voting for Trump is racist, but the voting for a warmongering President is democratic.
    As a matter of fact, Bush 41 stuck to UN Resolution 678, to expel Iraqi forces from Kuwait alongside Coalition partners from Europe, Africa, South America and Australia. The Coalition objective was never to “oust Saddam” though he personally encouraged Iraqi dissidents to rise up.

    41 was informed by his CIA experience to know that actual invasion of Iraq / regime change would become a quagmire and probably overspill. Sadly twelve years later Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove etc. did not share 41’s wisdom.


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