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  1. #1
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    "We canít compete like India in Australian conditions" : Mohammad Hafeez

    Lahore: Veteran cricketer Mohammad Hafeez thinks that India takes an edge over Pakistan for converting their talent into the product which helps them bring results even in conditions like Australia.

    Speaking to reporters here on Wednesday, Hafeez said the Pakistan cricket team plays with the talent whereas India converts their talent into a product and then sends them to international cricket.

    ďIn international cricket, you need a complete product. India outclassed Australia even in the absence of their main players because they put their product on the forefront. Unfortunately, in Pakistan, we donít polish the talent to convert it into a product. Thatís why we canít compete like India in those conditions,Ē he marked.

    He further said that India has a complete process through which their players come and show their skills at the international level. ďThey purify their talent and make them capable of playing international cricket. Here, we didnít have cricket at grassroots properly for the last two years. How can we make players then?Ē he highlighted.

    ďWe need to fill these gaps. Pakistan has immense talent, but there is a need to polish these cricketers to make them international products,Ē he concluded.

    https://arysports.tv/need-convert-ta...-india-hafeez/


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  2. #2
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    Oh gosh asking a guy who in his career made zillion comebacks. Unfair chances given to such a long standing mediocre beginning of Mohammad Hafiz is the reason why his so called "talent" almost took close to his retirement a "product". No doubt he played exceptionally well in T20 in New Zealand but he has survived, mind you not excelled, so many years in test cricket ,one days with t20 days included through connections, politics or whatever. Please check his stats against the big team on foreign tours just in one day I am not even saying test cricket which we all know his record is abysmal. Cricketers like him don't allow talent to come in and become a brand which he calls product. He should be ashamed and the last person commenting on Indian success. Cricketer with his mentality if in pakistsn gets picked up then Pakistani cricket team will always struggle on foreign soil and at home against big team will have success in patches.

  3. #3
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    He makes a valid point about nurturing the talent properly and making sure it's ready and prepared for international cricket which is done through a robust first-class structure.

    Nothing is left to chance, guys play long innings and bowl for long periods during school, club, under 19 and domestic cricket before they are brought into international cricket.



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by syedahsan View Post
    Oh gosh asking a guy who in his career made zillion comebacks. Unfair chances given to such a long standing mediocre beginning of Mohammad Hafiz is the reason why his so called "talent" almost took close to his retirement a "product". No doubt he played exceptionally well in T20 in New Zealand but he has survived, mind you not excelled, so many years in test cricket ,one days with t20 days included through connections, politics or whatever. Please check his stats against the big team on foreign tours just in one day I am not even saying test cricket which we all know his record is abysmal. Cricketers like him don't allow talent to come in and become a brand which he calls product. He should be ashamed and the last person commenting on Indian success. Cricketer with his mentality if in pakistsn gets picked up then Pakistani cricket team will always struggle on foreign soil and at home against big team will have success in patches.
    You're offended but he is speaking the truth here. You're offended by the truth so you attack the person making the statement regardless of whether the statement has merit or not. That's why you didn't actually make a simple argument about his comments but instead went on a rant about his cricketing career.

    Anyway, he isn't wrong here. We have no method behind our madness and for years have just depended on individual brilliance to bail us out. That run chase in the 4th test wasn't individual brilliance. It was calculated and had so much self-belief. It's as if these guys had conquered these situations time and time again. Shardul, Siraj and Sundar played their roles brilliantly too. Pant was allowed to be Pant.

  5. #5
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    He made a valid point.

  6. #6
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    Irrespective of the headlines he made valid points but not sure why the reporters asked him that.

    I think in 5-10 years if Pak still isnt able to then that question has more validity..

  7. #7
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    Buzz Words that Mean Nothing
    - Complete Product
    - Polish Talent
    - purify talent
    - international product
    - grassroots

    No one in Pakistan knows what these things mean. But it sounds really great.

  8. #8
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    Add "system" to the list.


    Quote Originally Posted by unemployedgm View Post
    Buzz Words that Mean Nothing
    - Complete Product
    - Polish Talent
    - purify talent
    - international product
    - grassroots

    No one in Pakistan knows what these things mean. But it sounds really great.

  9. #9
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    Many of real world examples where Goliath has always beaten David. Honestly speaking our ex and present players need to stop this, defeatist attitude towards India. Yes they are a comfortably better side than Pakistan rn but weak teams can beat strong teams on any given day.

    It's this defeatist, sucking up, looserish attitude why our players accept defeat before turning up to the pitch. We badly need a captain and coach who can change this meek attitude
    Last edited by Saj; 21st January 2021 at 00:26.

  10. #10
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    Hafeez has a clever brain and might do well in some coaching set up. Only if he used his chalaaki more productively than wasting spots in the team for a decade.

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    India didn't just compete, they thrashed Australia's backside. All us Pakistani fans want is to simply compete..


    Pakistan is that kid who never studies for his exams but is surprised when he fails.

  12. #12
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    When a 40 y.o Hafeez is your MVP in T20Is then you know something's not right within the PCB setup.


    Pakistan is that kid who never studies for his exams but is surprised when he fails.

  13. #13
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    His choice of words may not have been particularly appropriate but he makes perfect sense to me.

    This whole focus on talent means nothing if that is not nurtured into performance at the highest levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belawal2014 View Post
    India didn't just compete, they thrashed Australia's backside. All us Pakistani fans want is to simply compete..
    Pakistan should take baby steps and look to at least draw a match on their next tour. Besides smashing them at home of course.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

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    Hafeez is the right person to speak about it - because he himself is a wasted talent.

    After 15 years of playing international cricket without knowing his game, he is finally doing what he should have been doing atleast 10 years ago.

    He knows what he is talking about. A real missed opportunity he is.

  16. #16
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    We have some talent in bowling but not immense. Batting wise apart from Babar some are decent but not talented. We never produced players like Tendulkar, Dravid, Rohit, Kohli.....

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    Pretty rich coming from a guy who couldnít polish himself after a free ride for over a decade with the national team.

  18. #18
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    The entire setup will suffer from FOMO if you keep using India as a benchmark and keep comparing. Pakistan cricket is moving in the right direction and that's all that is needed.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  19. #19
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    should have said we can't compete with Australia in any conditions

    with any of the 5 teams for that matter

  20. #20
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    What product u r talking about. India are selecting players based on their IPL matches performances. How much exposure Natranjan have??? Truth is Indias IPL players are delivering even at test levels.


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    Quote Originally Posted by saabir View Post
    What product u r talking about. India are selecting players based on their IPL matches performances. How much exposure Natranjan have??? Truth is Indias IPL players are delivering even at test levels.
    Natrajan will not be playing any more tests, highly unlikely thatís going to happen.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Many of real world examples where Goliath has always beaten David. Honestly speaking our ex and present players need to stop this, defeatist attitude towards India. Yes they are a comfortably better side than Pakistan rn but weak teams can beat strong teams on any given day.

    It's this defeatist, sucking up, looserish attitude why our players accept defeat before turning up to the pitch. We badly need a captain and coach who can change this meek attitude
    Man you provide great game insights but sometimes you tend to over analyze stuff. where did you see defeatist attitude in this interview? He was asked a question and he answered as best as he could, it was brief and well articulated. Tell me if you were Hafiz what would you have said?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    Man you provide great game insights but sometimes you tend to over analyze stuff. where did you see defeatist attitude in this interview? He was asked a question and he answered as best as he could, it was brief and well articulated. Tell me if you were Hafiz what would you have said?
    You won't see Imran Khan say stuff like we can't win, we can't compete. Actually IK during his playing days never said much, in press conferences he would carry the attitude that every day was a new day, a new game. I want our players to stop gagaing over the Indians, their players and look to up their performances and play with an attitude to win.

    Ganguly changed the mindset of the Indian team. Kohli has also changed the mindset of the Indian team a notch further. I want our team to move on from the Misbah mediocrity mindset and actually start believing that they can win, they can perform and deliver, that is what they are being paid to do

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Pakistan should take baby steps and look to at least draw a match on their next tour. Besides smashing them at home of course.
    Of course, this can only happen if regular tours are arranged to Australia and players are picked in order of merit. I think India has like 2x the number of tours to Australia than Pakistan in the same time frame. India had to experience loss in Australia (2013-2015 I think) before they learned how to win.


    Pakistan is that kid who never studies for his exams but is surprised when he fails.

  25. #25
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    Didn't expect Hafeez 3.0 to have such defeatist mentality @freelance_cricketer

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belawal2014 View Post
    When a 40 y.o Hafeez is your MVP in T20Is then you know something's not right within the PCB setup.
    Reductive take. Hafeez's form is based on his hardwork. And Pakistan has plenty of world-class talents in limited overs like; Babar Azam, Imad Wasim, Shaheen Afridi.

  27. #27
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    No solutions, just a load of waffle and buzz words. Add 'purifying' and 'polishing' talents to the other range of words being used by ex players like 'daleri', 'jazba' etc. We need practical ideas, less waffle thanks.

  28. #28
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    Lol Pakistani players sadly overthink too much when playing against India, unnecessarily putting excess pressure on themselves vs other oppositions.

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    He's right. We can't take Naseem, Haider, Abdullah, etc, out against Australia, NZ after playing less than 5 FC games, and expect them to succeed. We need to stop throwing kids into international cricket. Wasim and Waqar in the past, and Shaheen now, are just exceptions to the rule. We can't keep hoping the exceptions will appear all the time.

  30. #30
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    Valid points made by Hafeez. There is a reason he is called the professor.
    Last edited by Titan24; 21st January 2021 at 03:27.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Valid points made by Hafeez. There is a reason he is called the professor.
    But as a standing cricketer he should not be making such statements as it makes him look weak. After retirement you can be analytical of your team but not when you are still an active cricketer. He is basically saying India is a much superior team than us and we cant be like them.

  32. #32
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    More organised grass roots, schools and city cricket. - Needs to be done ASAP, including circumventing beaurocratic roadblocks nonsense.

    Impartial and skilled coaches, especially at the grass roots level. - PCB needs to budget for this ASAP, have a recruitment drive for skilled cricket coaches, sponsor them to take coaching courses overseas and then include them at grass roots levels.

    Selections based on merit at grass roots, schools and city level.

    Young talented groomed properly and with correct positive mindset.

    That's a start. Plan and execute based on good intentions and best practices. Dont worry about India. Or departmental cricket. Or flipping surface daleri.

    We can do this. However, constant hand wringing, navel gazing and tiresome, inferiority complex creating comparisons with India achieve zilch.
    Last edited by KingOfPakBreakfast; 21st January 2021 at 04:38.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by saabir View Post
    What product u r talking about. India are selecting players based on their IPL matches performances. How much exposure Natranjan have??? Truth is Indias IPL players are delivering even at test levels.
    Excellent point

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    You won't see Imran Khan say stuff like we can't win, we can't compete. Actually IK during his playing days never said much, in press conferences he would carry the attitude that every day was a new day, a new game. I want our players to stop gagaing over the Indians, their players and look to up their performances and play with an attitude to win.

    Ganguly changed the mindset of the Indian team. Kohli has also changed the mindset of the Indian team a notch further. I want our team to move on from the Misbah mediocrity mindset and actually start believing that they can win, they can perform and deliver, that is what they are being paid to do
    Spot on, England had the same mentality turn of the millennium when constantly looking at the Aussies after getting beatings after beatings, it took Vaughan to change the mentality, hafeez has shown week mentality here.

  35. #35
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    Lol at the people that are offended by Hafeez's remarks. Any person that talks sense in PCT is attacked by "Patriotic" fans cuz they can't digest the truth. Hafeez made valid points that most of the posters here say themselves but now that Hafeez has made the same point he is defeatist? Even people taking jibes at his own career. Embarrassing stuff really.

    It is not defeatist of him to admit the faults in our system neither does it make him look weak. It makes him a realist. Hopefully, he gets into coaching after his retirement. He always had a sharp cricketing mind and I really enjoyed his captaincy in t20s in the early 2010s. Unfortunately, he was resigned after our exit from the t20 WC.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Lahore: Veteran cricketer Mohammad Hafeez thinks that India takes an edge over Pakistan for converting their talent into the product which helps them bring results even in conditions like Australia.

    Speaking to reporters here on Wednesday, Hafeez said the Pakistan cricket team plays with the talent whereas India converts their talent into a product and then sends them to international cricket.

    “In international cricket, you need a complete product. India outclassed Australia even in the absence of their main players because they put their product on the forefront. Unfortunately, in Pakistan, we don’t polish the talent to convert it into a product. That’s why we can’t compete like India in those conditions,” he marked.

    He further said that India has a complete process through which their players come and show their skills at the international level. “They purify their talent and make them capable of playing international cricket. Here, we didn’t have cricket at grassroots properly for the last two years. How can we make players then?” he highlighted.

    “We need to fill these gaps. Pakistan has immense talent, but there is a need to polish these cricketers to make them international products,” he concluded.

    https://arysports.tv/need-convert-ta...-india-hafeez/
    What a defeatist attitude. If you start we cannot, then you end up with nothing.
    Start with Can Do, let us give our best shot. Hafeez is an epitome of mediocrity.

    I don't understand when this has creeped into Pakistan cricket. Wasim, Shoaib, Imran, Miandad e.g. played the game like they are here to win, no matter what happens.

    Misbah, Hafeez etc have completely altered the DNA.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoyoAli View Post
    Lol at the people that are offended by Hafeez's remarks. Any person that talks sense in PCT is attacked by "Patriotic" fans cuz they can't digest the truth. Hafeez made valid points that most of the posters here say themselves but now that Hafeez has made the same point he is defeatist? Even people taking jibes at his own career. Embarrassing stuff really.

    It is not defeatist of him to admit the faults in our system neither does it make him look weak. It makes him a realist. Hopefully, he gets into coaching after his retirement. He always had a sharp cricketing mind and I really enjoyed his captaincy in t20s in the early 2010s. Unfortunately, he was resigned after our exit from the t20 WC.
    I havenít seen anyone attacking Hafeez. Who are these patriotic fans?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoyoAli View Post
    Lol at the people that are offended by Hafeez's remarks. Any person that talks sense in PCT is attacked by "Patriotic" fans cuz they can't digest the truth. Hafeez made valid points that most of the posters here say themselves but now that Hafeez has made the same point he is defeatist? Even people taking jibes at his own career. Embarrassing stuff really.

    It is not defeatist of him to admit the faults in our system neither does it make him look weak. It makes him a realist. Hopefully, he gets into coaching after his retirement. He always had a sharp cricketing mind and I really enjoyed his captaincy in t20s in the early 2010s. Unfortunately, he was resigned after our exit from the t20 WC.
    Ofcourse its not defeatist to admit your faults, these things can be done in private but I find it ridiculous for our active players to be constantly giving defeatist statements in the media about it being impossible to beat India

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    But as a standing cricketer he should not be making such statements as it makes him look weak. After retirement you can be analytical of your team but not when you are still an active cricketer. He is basically saying India is a much superior team than us and we cant be like them.
    Whether he says it or not, everybody involved with cricket knows India have the superior cricket team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saabir View Post
    What product u r talking about. India are selecting players based on their IPL matches performances. How much exposure Natranjan have??? Truth is Indias IPL players are delivering even at test levels.
    yeah thats true. but natarajan wont have played, he played because india didnt have anyone left. he was a net bowler and even he performed

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    Quote Originally Posted by saabir View Post
    What product u r talking about. India are selecting players based on their IPL matches performances. How much exposure Natranjan have??? Truth is Indias IPL players are delivering even at test levels.
    And he has been duly dropped on home series against England. Not even part of the squad.
    He will not play another Test Match, unless everyone again falls down.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoshiarpurexpress View Post
    And he has been duly dropped on home series against England. Not even part of the squad.
    He will not play another Test Match, unless everyone again falls down.
    This is what I really love about the BCCI, Indian system and mindset, for them its all about the policies, procedures and systems.

    Just because Washington Sundar has done well in Australia and is one of the heroes of the famous Australian win. The BCCI still want him to play reasonable amount of first class cricket and have a reasonable body of performances before he can get recalled again. No individual is bigger than the team and system.

    These are the things the PCB needs to learn from the BCCI

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by saabir View Post
    What product u r talking about. India are selecting players based on their IPL matches performances. How much exposure Natranjan have??? Truth is Indias IPL players are delivering even at test levels.
    Sorry Natarajan is an odd ball case. The only reason Natty stayed back in Australia was because of him being a left-armer and Indian Test batters needed to get used to that angle to play Starc. Him playing a Test match was completely out of luck. If not for the freakish injury spree he would have never played a Test. Same with Washington Sundar, would have never played Tests and was retained as a net bowler. It just was lucky that Indian found that Sundar has more to him than being a T20 Specialist, so retained him for England series.

    Both these players would have been never selected for Test team otherwise. Apart from these two, none of the other Test selections were based on their IPL performances.

    Siraj and Thakur have played lots of FC games and have been part of A tours where they have performed brilliantly. Gill is a brilliant talent who has had brilliant couple of FC seasons. Navdeep Saini has played 48 FC games, Pant averages 50 in FC. All the others selected in the Indian Test team have played lots of FC cricket. The reason they perform is due to the proper exposure on A tours and play on all kind of surfaces. There is a system and process for these performances.

    Remember Natty and Sundar were not part of the Indian Test squad. They were not picked for Tests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    This is what I really love about the BCCI, Indian system and mindset, for them its all about the policies, procedures and systems.

    Just because Washington Sundar has done well in Australia and is one of the heroes of the famous Australian win. The BCCI still want him to play reasonable amount of first class cricket and have a reasonable body of performances before he can get recalled again. No individual is bigger than the team and system.

    These are the things the PCB needs to learn from the BCCI
    Sundar is in the squad(Jadduís replacement), Natraj is not and will not be considering how he performed..

    Below are the new Net bowlers for English tour
    Ankit Rajpoot, Avesh Khan, Sandeep Warrier, K Gowtham, Saurabh Kumar

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Yes they are a comfortably better side than Pakistan rn but weak teams can beat strong teams on any given day.
    It's 5-day cricket, not T20. You need to outplay your opponents over 5 days to win.

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    He is right about most things except the usual baloney that Pakistan has immense talent. That is not true.

    Pakistan is among the least talented cricket nations, and that has been the case throughout history as well.

    Pakistan has a mediocre legacy in all departments of the game except fast bowling, and the fast bowling legacy was largely built on a ďdark artĒ that is illegal, and once it became less feasible to achieve due to the advancement of cameras, our fast bowling tumbled.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by B_Positive View Post
    but natarajan wont have played, he played because india didnt have anyone left. he was a net bowler
    Kartik Tyagi was also in the squad. It was his bouncer that injured Will Pucovski in the tour game.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He is right about most things except the usual baloney that Pakistan has immense talent. That is not true.

    Pakistan is among the least talented cricket nations, and that has been the case throughout history as well.

    Pakistan has a mediocre legacy in all departments of the game except fast bowling, and the fast bowling legacy was largely built on a ďdark artĒ that is illegal, and once it became less feasible to achieve due to the advancement of cameras, our fast bowling tumbled.
    Last paragraph is interesting. It is a truth that since Aktar retired, Pakistan haven't had a single world class fast bowler. Asif and Amir regardless.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    Sorry Natarajan is an odd ball case. The only reason Natty stayed back in Australia was because of him being a left-armer and Indian Test batters needed to get used to that angle to play Starc. Him playing a Test match was completely out of luck. If not for the freakish injury spree he would have never played a Test. Same with Washington Sundar, would have never played Tests and was retained as a net bowler. It just was lucky that Indian found that Sundar has more to him than being a T20 Specialist, so retained him for England series.

    Both these players would have been never selected for Test team otherwise. Apart from these two, none of the other Test selections were based on their IPL performances.

    Siraj and Thakur have played lots of FC games and have been part of A tours where they have performed brilliantly. Gill is a brilliant talent who has had brilliant couple of FC seasons. Navdeep Saini has played 48 FC games, Pant averages 50 in FC. All the others selected in the Indian Test team have played lots of FC cricket. The reason they perform is due to the proper exposure on A tours and play on all kind of surfaces. There is a system and process for these performances.

    Remember Natty and Sundar were not part of the Indian Test squad. They were not picked for Tests.
    Natarajan hasn't been dropped. He has been rested keeping in mind his workload.
    That is the official statement.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He is right about most things except the usual baloney that Pakistan has immense talent. That is not true.

    Pakistan is among the least talented cricket nations, and that has been the case throughout history as well.

    Pakistan has a mediocre legacy in all departments of the game except fast bowling, and the fast bowling legacy was largely built on a “dark art” that is illegal, and once it became less feasible to achieve due to the advancement of cameras, our fast bowling tumbled.
    Yes, Wasim, Waqar, Saeed Anwar, Inzamam, Zaheer Abbas, Shoaib Akhtar were not talented

  51. #51
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    Looks like 'product' is a new buzzword in the PCB circuit. Wasim used it earlier for justifying his selections.

    If not Hafeez, someone else will say it as it is the glaringly obvious truth. Questioning is always easier than answering so maybe it will be better if any of these senior/ex players can come up with a tangible vision for improving things going forward.

    The longer we keep this 'same-to-same aka Sarfaraz at WC'19 joke' going the harder the fall will be. This Pakistan team does not even have the charisma to compete.

    Still remember how a decade ago the likes of Afridi, Akhtar, Razzaq, Kami were bashed left right and center for obvious reasons but now that you look at the current team a decade later and it has become worse. There's clearly a decline - and no one has done anything about it.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Yes, Wasim, Waqar, Saeed Anwar, Inzamam, Zaheer Abbas, Shoaib Akhtar were not talented
    A cricket nation with little talent will produce some talented players over a history that spans over 65+ years. You have to look at the frequency of talent production.

    Pakistan is among the least talented cricket teams in the world because of the following:

    - it has not produced a single batsman so far that belongs in the league of Tendulkar, Lara, Viv, Ponting, Kohli etc.

    - it has not produced a single proper wicket-keeper batsman that can be compared to Gilchrist or Sangakkara or even de Kock.

    - it has not produced a single elite opener since Saeed Anwar, who himself has been surpassed by a dozen openers among other teams.

    - it has not produced a single successful Test all-rounder since Imran.

    - it has not produced a single spinner with 350+ Test wickets.

    The notion that talent is there but it has been mismanaged etc. is just a convenient cop-out. The reality is that the talent was not and is not that great to begin with.

  53. #53
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    The A tours were the reason why this A team was able to compete and win. Shubman played in these conditions before. So did Washington, Siraj, Thakur, Mayank etc. The big 3 along with NZ have frequent A tours and it helps everyone.

    Australia is to India what England is to Pakistan. The Pakistani bowlers were always able to thrive in English conditions and helped theie teams win many games. To thrive in Aus, you need pace and consistency. India started producing these bowlers in the last few years. The results are there to see.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    A cricket nation with little talent will produce some talented players over a history that spans over 65+ years. You have to look at the frequency of talent production.

    Pakistan is among the least talented cricket teams in the world because of the following:

    - it has not produced a single batsman so far that belongs in the league of Tendulkar, Lara, Viv, Ponting, Kohli etc.

    - it has not produced a single proper wicket-keeper batsman that can be compared to Gilchrist or Sangakkara or even de Kock.

    - it has not produced a single elite opener since Saeed Anwar, who himself has been surpassed by a dozen openers among other teams.

    - it has not produced a single successful Test all-rounder since Imran.

    - it has not produced a single spinner with 350+ Test wickets.

    The notion that talent is there but it has been mismanaged etc. is just a convenient cop-out. The reality is that the talent was not and is not that great to begin with.
    Or Dhoni or Pant...

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    A cricket nation with little talent will produce some talented players over a history that spans over 65+ years. You have to look at the frequency of talent production.

    Pakistan is among the least talented cricket teams in the world because of the following:

    - it has not produced a single batsman so far that belongs in the league of Tendulkar, Lara, Viv, Ponting, Kohli etc.

    - it has not produced a single proper wicket-keeper batsman that can be compared to Gilchrist or Sangakkara or even de Kock.

    - it has not produced a single elite opener since Saeed Anwar, who himself has been surpassed by a dozen openers among other teams.

    - it has not produced a single successful Test all-rounder since Imran.

    - it has not produced a single spinner with 350+ Test wickets.

    The notion that talent is there but it has been mismanaged etc. is just a convenient cop-out. The reality is that the talent was not and is not that great to begin with.
    Thatís why we have been better than India outside Asia for some time until the last 5-10 years in tests and also easily have a better head to head record in ODIs against them.

    They were all flukes aswell from untalented Pakistan and amazing talents India.

  56. #56
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    The test team which played in SENA wasnít the strongest we could put out this team had more chance of success winning/drawing more matches.

    Sharjeel
    Abid
    Azhar
    Babar
    Akmal
    Saud
    Rizwan
    Yasir
    Hasan
    Shaheen
    Abbas

    The bowling isnít great but the batting offers more hope of challenging the best teams in SENA at the moment we are weaker than the top 5 teams in tests outside Asia.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by unemployedgm View Post
    Buzz Words that Mean Nothing
    - Complete Product
    - Polish Talent
    - purify talent
    - international product
    - grassroots

    No one in Pakistan knows what these things mean. But it sounds really great.
    More additions :
    'At a crucial stage'
    'Just when then wanted it/wicket/runs/runout/byes/rains'
    ' a crucial player'
    'momentum'

  58. #58
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    I am sure Pakistan has better bowling reserve than Shardul, Natrajan, Saint etc.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by speed_thrills View Post
    I am sure Pakistan has better bowling reserve than Shardul, Natrajan, Saint etc.
    Maybe, but most of our frontline bowlers are not better than them.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cric1234 View Post
    Thatís why we have been better than India outside Asia for some time until the last 5-10 years in tests and also easily have a better head to head record in ODIs against them.

    They were all flukes aswell from untalented Pakistan and amazing talents India.
    India is not very naturally gifted in cricket either, but the difference between Indian cricket and Pakistan cricket is that India is very intelligent.

    On the other hand, Pakistan is the most cricket ignorant nation in the world.

    India figured out what it needed to do, and what it needed to change to become an elite cricket team. They identified their flaws, they devised a plan, they implemented the plan and they reaped the rewards.

    On the contrary, Pakistan cannot even identify its problems or why it has reached this point. When I look at the excuses and justifications people come up with, I donít know if I should laugh or cry.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Many of real world examples where Goliath has always beaten David. Honestly speaking our ex and present players need to stop this, defeatist attitude towards India. Yes they are a comfortably better side than Pakistan rn but weak teams can beat strong teams on any given day.

    It's this defeatist, sucking up, looserish attitude why our players accept defeat before turning up to the pitch. We badly need a captain and coach who can change this meek attitude
    Always is laughable. Davids slaying Goliaths are always exceptions and very rare which is why when it happens they are celebrated and remembered.

    Whether you plan for sports or business or wars, you never plan to be David, you always want to be Goliath. David was sent to war out of desperation and last ditch effort. Celebrating David winning is great, but you still try to be Goliath in the long run
    Last edited by Indiafan; 21st January 2021 at 12:53.


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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    India is not very naturally gifted in cricket either, but the difference between Indian cricket and Pakistan cricket is that India is very intelligent.

    On the other hand, Pakistan is the most cricket ignorant nation in the world.

    India figured out what it needed to do, and what it needed to change to become an elite cricket team. They identified their flaws, they devised a plan, they implemented the plan and they reaped the rewards.

    On the contrary, Pakistan cannot even identify its problems or why it has reached this point. When I look at the excuses and justifications people come up with, I donít know if I should laugh or cry.
    The same people become selectors/coaches more based on their past exploits as players than anything which makes them great at their job they canít build a team who the best players are and what position they should play.

    With less talent currently than other teams it is important we utilise it best we can have a strong core know when to bring new players in when to phase out older players unfortunately weíve become awful at this in the last decade and slipped into continuous mediocrity.

    That doesnít mean we can be no 1 or challenge the best teams consistently but we can definitely improve from the continuous mediocrity which had become common itís a start and a stepping stone but it doesnít look like happening soon although thereís minor improvement with the new selector.

  63. #63
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    The Indian cricket team's historic 2-1 Test series win in Australia didn't just send the Indians back home in jubilation but all cricket lovers who saw the sub-continent side defeat all odds to emerge victorious. India's win Down Under also triggered a ray of questions over the status of cricketing affairs in Pakistan, especially after their horrific defeat in New Zealand.

    Veteran Pakistani cricketer, Mohammad Hafeez, analysis of both sets of results highlighted the 'differentiating factors' between the two teams that saw one make history Down Under and the other face humiliation.

    "The reason why India came back from being bowled out for 36 and went on to win the series despite their captain not being available or so many players injured is because their new and young players are groomed properly into finished products. India's products play international cricket and in Pakistan's case only the talent does," Hafeez said in a media interaction on Wednesday.

    Pakistan and India might be the fiercest of rivals on the field but India's win brought plenty of happiness to Hafeez who enjoyed a cricketing contest where the on-paper underdogs defeated the favourites.

    "I enjoyed it that the (Indian) team was down in morale but the way they came back and won the series after an amazing recovery is great. As a fan of cricket, we really enjoyed that," he said.

    Lamenting the lack of such a system in Pakistan, Hafeez pointed out that his nation lacks the structure required to nourish talent into world-class players.

    "Unfortunately we don't have a system which can make finished products which are now essential in modern-day cricket. That is why so many of our young players fail to succeed at the international level,” said the 40-year-old.

    Over the years, Pakistan have also produced some phenomenal talents. Their current crop of young pace bowlers is considered among the finest. But what the country lacks, as per Hafeez, is the domestic system to groom them the way India does.

    "We have to polish the talented youngsters and make them world class players. In India their domestic system ensures the talented players are groomed properly. But in Pakistan we don't go through that process."

    https://www.timesnownews.com/sports/...stralia/710017


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  64. #64
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    What pakistan needs is a Imran or ganguly not kohli at this point. It is not only cricketers who need thier mind set to be changed but fans too. You want someone who believes in himself first and I don’t think Babar is that person. Let him be the tendulkar of your generation but you need to identify a brash sophisticated self believing captain. You have us you can learn from ups and downs, how far we fell and what we did to come out of it. You guys don’t need to reinvent the wheel.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by prisha View Post
    What pakistan needs is a Imran or ganguly not kohli at this point. It is not only cricketers who need thier mind set to be changed but fans too. You want someone who believes in himself first and I donít think Babar is that person. Let him be the tendulkar of your generation but you need to identify a brash sophisticated self believing captain. You have us you can learn from ups and downs, how far we fell and what we did to come out of it. You guys donít need to reinvent the wheel.
    Shadab would be the likely candidate to do so, I suppose. No one else has the ability to energize a team and instill self confidence.

  66. #66
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    ď Unfortunately we don't have a system which can make finished products which are now essential in modern-day cricket. That is why so many of our young players fail to succeed at the international level,Ē said the 40-year-oldĒ

    Seriously you donít need a Professor with a pHD in cricket to tell you the obvious ó Iím sure I read a statement to the same effect by Sarfraz Nawaz back in 80s, Asif Iqbal said the same in 90s, and Imran Khan has been saying it for ever - we donít have a system that lets talent convert into the finished product.

    But what I find amusing is no improvement ever comes to this Ďsystemí and you actually have people arguing itís unfair to compare Pakistan team with Indian or Australians because our players donít have their support and facilities..almost to defend them.

    Yes possibly but hang on a minute, Hafeez had 20 years in the team with his place guaranteed on the plate - no Iím not asking him to perform like Tendulkar and Kohli, but did he even match them on work ethic and practicing on his own game or the physical fitness and nutrition side ?

    It doesnít take a rocket scientist to work out when a Kohli or Tendulkar , Dravid went out to bat - these guys have been spending hours in the nets to reach such levels of mastery ó you donít get that far with just talent alone.

    Talent + Hard Work = Skills

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Valid points made by Hafeez. There is a reason he is called the professor.
    It's hardly rocket science, Imran Khan has been saying the same thing for 30 years. There just hasn't been anybody willing to take on the task of fixing it, although it seems like Wasim Khan might be giving it a good go.


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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majid Khan View Post
    ď Unfortunately we don't have a system which can make finished products which are now essential in modern-day cricket. That is why so many of our young players fail to succeed at the international level,Ē said the 40-year-oldĒ

    Seriously you donít need a Professor with a pHD in cricket to tell you the obvious ó Iím sure I read a statement to the same effect by Sarfraz Nawaz back in 80s, Asif Iqbal said the same in 90s, and Imran Khan has been saying it for ever - we donít have a system that lets talent convert into the finished product.

    But what I find amusing is no improvement ever comes to this Ďsystemí and you actually have people arguing itís unfair to compare Pakistan team with Indian or Australians because our players donít have their support and facilities..almost to defend them.

    Yes possibly but hang on a minute, Hafeez had 20 years in the team with his place guaranteed on the plate - no Iím not asking him to perform like Tendulkar and Kohli, but did he even match them on work ethic and practicing on his own game or the physical fitness and nutrition side ?

    It doesnít take a rocket scientist to work out when a Kohli or Tendulkar , Dravid went out to bat - these guys have been spending hours in the nets to reach such levels of mastery ó you donít get that far with just talent alone.

    Talent + Hard Work = Skills
    As an analogy itís like a student who spends most of his time playing video games and watching TV, and when his parents are disappointed after heís failed his exams and compare him to his cousin Imran who passed with A grades - he argues to his parents well you didnít get private tuition for me that Imranís parents provided for him, did you? Thatís why I failed.

    Yes by all means the extra tuition might have helped Imran get the A grades , but donít use that to justify your own D, E, F and U (Unclassified) grades... you could have put some effort and at least achieved B and C grades, surely ?

  69. #69
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    I remember a series in New Zealand. I think it was an ODI. Hafeez opened the batting and the kiwi bowler bowled two outswingers that he chased and thankfully missed. I was watching this match with my dad and uncle and all 3 of us said that the bowler is going to bowl an inswinger. He did. Hafeez shouldered arms thinking it was another outswinger and got bowled.

    Do we blame the system for this lack of intelligence or do the players need to learn to take their fate into their own hands a bit more? The system is always conveniently blamed but its not fully to blame.

    We must accept that our players are simply not good enough or possess zero cricketing intelligence and willingness to improve.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    I remember a series in New Zealand. I think it was an ODI. Hafeez opened the batting and the kiwi bowler bowled two outswingers that he chased and thankfully missed. I was watching this match with my dad and uncle and all 3 of us said that the bowler is going to bowl an inswinger. He did. Hafeez shouldered arms thinking it was another outswinger and got bowled.

    Do we blame the system for this lack of intelligence or do the players need to learn to take their fate into their own hands a bit more? The system is always conveniently blamed but its not fully to blame.

    We must accept that our players are simply not good enough or possess zero cricketing intelligence and willingness to improve.
    In a professional cricket environment with a healthy first class structure, stupid players don't survive. But of course you need to put some store by performance data and actually pick players based on that rather than fast tracking players you fancy or VIP nephews.


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    Hafeez is an epitome of mediocrity, and he is talking about creating a product.
    Looks like this is the new buzzword as i see other ex-pakistan cricketers on youtube also using the same word. product,polish, system.

    Such a defeatist mindset.

  72. #72
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    Hafeez has a point, no doubt. But does he have a solution?

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    Such defeatist mentality.

    Didn't expect this from the modern day T20 Bradman.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    But as a standing cricketer he should not be making such statements as it makes him look weak. After retirement you can be analytical of your team but not when you are still an active cricketer. He is basically saying India is a much superior team than us and we cant be like them.
    Journalist asked him question about Indian team’s performance. More than undermining his team or calling other team superior, he has highlighted the lack of nurturing and development of the products. He has played cricket for almost two decades in domestic and international combined and is 40 years old, close to retirement so I think it is okay that he has just reinforced the development aspect which is known for years. Regular A team tours and letting players play some domestic cricket before debuting them in tests are two things which can immediately be improved.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belawal2014 View Post
    Of course, this can only happen if regular tours are arranged to Australia and players are picked in order of merit. I think India has like 2x the number of tours to Australia than Pakistan in the same time frame. India had to experience loss in Australia (2013-2015 I think) before they learned how to win.
    I'm talking about drawing a single test match. Just break the streak of 25 years somehow.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

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    If Hafeez is still playing, doing better than most new Pak batsmen and is fitter than most, then fault lies not with Hafeez but with coaches and PCB. Pak fans should be grateful to Hafeez, rather than abusing him.

    Itís the same for Amir and Afridi. If Afridi is still Pakís biggest draw in T20 events, local or overseas, itís something for PCB to mull over. No one in India pines for Yuvaraj, Raina, Dhoni or Sehwag. India has moved on. These four can probably still brutalise most T20 leagues and even some national teams, incl Pakistan.

    But Pakistan canít easily move on from oldies unless it can get 6-8 batsmen players better than Hafeez, and even Malik. In hope, you can keep debuting mediocre new players but that wonít help.

    Your First XI is your Best XI, not for experimenting Naseems.

    I am not sure if any one can honestly claim that Hafeez is not in the list of top 8 Pak batsmen today.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majid Khan View Post
    “ Unfortunately we don't have a system which can make finished products which are now essential in modern-day cricket. That is why so many of our young players fail to succeed at the international level,” said the 40-year-old”

    Seriously you don’t need a Professor with a pHD in cricket to tell you the obvious — I’m sure I read a statement to the same effect by Sarfraz Nawaz back in 80s, Asif Iqbal said the same in 90s, and Imran Khan has been saying it for ever - we don’t have a system that lets talent convert into the finished product.

    But what I find amusing is no improvement ever comes to this ‘system’ and you actually have people arguing it’s unfair to compare Pakistan team with Indian or Australians because our players don’t have their support and facilities..almost to defend them.

    Yes possibly but hang on a minute, Hafeez had 20 years in the team with his place guaranteed on the plate - no I’m not asking him to perform like Tendulkar and Kohli, but did he even match them on work ethic and practicing on his own game or the physical fitness and nutrition side ?

    It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out when a Kohli or Tendulkar , Dravid went out to bat - these guys have been spending hours in the nets to reach such levels of mastery — you don’t get that far with just talent alone.

    Talent + Hard Work = Skills
    Thats a fair point too. Hard work put in by some of the past greats was extraordinary and most of the current gen players are nowhere close to that. People often talk about the skills of Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Saeed, Younus etc but, are not aware of the work they used to do in the background. Running miles every morning for fitness/warm ups and then bowling over after over with one stump in place are few known aspects of their routine.

    However, I think players at that time better understood the requirements of international cricket because of the environment they were in with Imran leading them and then Wasim carrying on that development culture till his retirement. Our system as a whole was never completely tested in 90s as individuals like Imran, Wasim, Javed put their hands up and helped in development of players at international level after selecting the ones which they thought had what it takes. Since their retirement the system was tested and it couldn’t handle the load and thus an eventual decline. I even created a thread on how Pakistan cricket is transitioning from reliance on individual towards s system.

    Yes some of the current generation players might not be putting in the hard yards but, there are quite a few who don’t understand where and how to put that effort to improve further. Hassan Ali has recently said that how the young pacers have lack of understanding of self management and that is one of the reasons of decline in performances after decent starts.
    Last edited by Titan24; 21st January 2021 at 18:17.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by syedahsan View Post
    Oh gosh asking a guy who in his career made zillion comebacks. Unfair chances given to such a long standing mediocre beginning of Mohammad Hafiz is the reason why his so called "talent" almost took close to his retirement a "product". No doubt he played exceptionally well in T20 in New Zealand but he has survived, mind you not excelled, so many years in test cricket ,one days with t20 days included through connections, politics or whatever. Please check his stats against the big team on foreign tours just in one day I am not even saying test cricket which we all know his record is abysmal. Cricketers like him don't allow talent to come in and become a brand which he calls product. He should be ashamed and the last person commenting on Indian success. Cricketer with his mentality if in pakistsn gets picked up then Pakistani cricket team will always struggle on foreign soil and at home against big team will have success in patches.
    On the contrary I think Hafeez is a genuine world class talent, it could be just his own fault hes underachieved though . I think he could have been as good as Yuvi was for India in shorter formats.


    " you don't play for the crowd, you play for your country " - MSD

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Pakistan should take baby steps and look to at least draw a match on their next tour. Besides smashing them at home of course.
    without taking anything away from India who played great cricket but in no definition India's victory would be classed as a thrashing. Series could have gone either way. India were hanging on in last 2 matches and nicked one at the end when Aussies tried to risk it to win it.

    India was too good when Australia tried to risk it as they should have known.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by jusarrived View Post
    On the contrary I think Hafeez is a genuine world class talent, it could be just his own fault hes underachieved though . I think he could have been as good as Yuvi was for India in shorter formats.
    He was not far behind Yuvi, He has done almost as much as Yuvi for Pakistan and until he was allowed to bowl was bowling more consistently than Yuvi. Yuvi was slightly better and playing for a better team for the most part.

    I dont think he was an international failure people forget it was his contribution in the CT17 that broke India at the end.


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