Joe Root has potential to surpass Sachin Tendulkar's Test record, says Geoffrey Boycott


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    Joe Root has potential to surpass Sachin Tendulkar's Test record, says Geoffrey Boycott

    The legendary Geoffrey Boycott believes prolific England captain Joe Root has the potential and talent to surpass Indian great Sachin Tendulkar as the all-time run scorer in Test cricket.

    Root, 30, amassed 426 runs in four innings at an average of 106.50 including two centuries with a high score of 228 in the just-concluded 2-0 series sweep over Sri Lanka.

    Root, whose next assignment is the four-Test series in India starting on February 5, also became the fourth-highest run-getter in Test cricket for England and the first ever captain to hit two double-hundreds.

    "Forget just scoring more Test runs for England than David Gower, Kevin Pietersen and myself. Joe Root has the potential to play 200 Tests and score more runs than even Sachin Tendulkar," Boycott wrote in a column for 'The Telegraph'.

    "Root is only 30. He has played 99 Tests and scored 8249 runs already. As long as he does not suffer serious injury there is no reason why he cannot beat Tendulkarís all-time record of 15,921." Boycott, however, doesn't want people to compare Root with stars of bygone eras, saying he should be judged only with his contemporaries.


    "His contemporaries, such as Virat Kohli, Steve Smith and Kane Williamson, are wonderful players as well who could also score that many runs. We should enjoy Root and only judge him alongside those guys, not great names of the past because every player is a product of their environment," he said.

    The 80-year-old England batting great observed that Root has worked on his batting during the COVID-enforced break but said the right-hander will face his biggest test on Australia soil.

    "Until this tour Joe had not been making the big scores that influence matches.Perhaps the COVID-19 lockdowns allowed him time to take stock of his batting. For too long he appeared to be influenced by Twenty20 cricket. He was trying to force his way back into England's T20 side, but that frenetic type of batting is not for him," Boycott said.

    "I felt that when playing Test cricket his subconscious was telling him to try to score off almost every ball. He was opening the face of the bat to good length balls trying to run it to third man, working straight balls to leg and even when he defended a really good ball he would set off for a run. In other words, he was trying to avoid a dot ball. Against top-class Test bowlers that is not possible.Ē

    "Joe's biggest test will be against pace in Australia but, right now, by not batting in a gung-ho style, he has settled down and is giving himself a chance to bat big."
    Link: https://www.thehindu.com/sport/crick...le33667574.ece


    If there is a better batsman than Sachin then he hasn't arrived yet: Viv Richards

  2. #2
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    This reminds of Cook.

    The problem is when Root gets old and England lose ashes, he'll be dropped like a hot potato.

  3. #3
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    He is 30 and has 99 tests. Since England play so much tests, he can have 200 test if he plays until 37-38.

  4. #4
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    Joe Root has the potential to pass Murali's 800 wickets record too but he lets the others in England pick the wickets. Selfless, fearless leader.


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  5. #5
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    Not sure he wants to though. English tend to call it a day and move on with other things in life besides cricket at the age of 35-36. Doubt Root will play until he is 40

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by leatherface58 View Post
    Joe Root has the potential to pass Murali's 800 wickets record too but he lets the others in England pick the wickets. Selfless, fearless leader.
    Lol, that made me chuckle.

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    On another note, Boycott considers the great Garfield Sobers to be the best batsman he has ever seen.


    If there is a better batsman than Sachin then he hasn't arrived yet: Viv Richards

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    Geoff boycott seems to have forgotten how to do statistics. Maybe age acting up

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    I think Alaistar Cook has been the only batsman with potential to break that record. Shame he retired at age of 33

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    Australia, Australia, Australia. What Australia and what pace attack. India has busted this myth of Aussies being the benchmark. Apart from Cummins, Australia pace attack is ordinary. Can't even get the tail out. Starc is fading away, Hazelwood is only good with the new ball with wicket providing lateral movement while Green; the little said the better. Indian bowlers in any conditions are the new benchmark where the batsmen can assess themselves.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg111 View Post
    Lol, that made me chuckle.
    No joke. Did you see the way he was bowling in Sri Lanka? Bess and Leach looked like amateurs toiling away for overs while Root did the job in an over.


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silent ischemia View Post
    Australia, Australia, Australia. What Australia and what pace attack. India has busted this myth of Aussies being the benchmark. Apart from Cummins, Australia pace attack is ordinary. Can't even get the tail out. Starc is fading away, Hazelwood is only good with the new ball with wicket providing lateral movement while Green; the little said the better. Indian bowlers in any conditions are the new benchmark where the batsmen can assess themselves.
    Never in my wildest dreams I imagined a day would come when I would see a statement like this made. But it is becoming a reality bit by bit.

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    LOL...next up India having pacemen who bowl 150-155 kmph upwards....Just because it hasn't happened-don't mean it aint gonna happen....there is potential ...and when it happens...watch out....till then njoi what is in front of us....and pak have the nucleas of a good seam attack though-the youngs guns should get better with more experience and deliver....hoping for a cracker rwalpindi test match....good luck to pak...from an indian fan..

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    He will fall short. Longevity is not everyone's cup of tea. You have to be truly legendary to achieve longevity. Root will end up with 13000 test runs at average of 47.5.

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    Root needs to score around 7000 runs to break Sachin's record. Assuming he averages 55 from now on, he will need to play 130 innings which comes about to 75 more tests.

    Seems doable if he keeps his fitness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    This reminds of Cook.

    The problem is when Root gets old and England lose ashes, he'll be dropped like a hot potato.
    Yup, true. They often overreact like in the case of KP and Cook. Root may meet same fate and will decide to retire.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrIc_Mystique View Post
    LOL...next up India having pacemen who bowl 150-155 kmph upwards....Just because it hasn't happened-don't mean it aint gonna happen....there is potential ...and when it happens...watch out....till then njoi what is in front of us....and pak have the nucleas of a good seam attack though-the youngs guns should get better with more experience and deliver....hoping for a cracker rwalpindi test match....good luck to pak...from an indian fan..
    India pace joke are so 1990s. You need to get with the times grandpa

  18. #18
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    I mean, Root is in the middle of a purple patch and he's set to play 17 tests this year alone. He can absolutely walk past Sachin's titanic record.

    The thing about Root is that he is quite like Cook when it comes to tracking the latter's career. Early debut, playing for a country that plays 12-14 tests a year etc. But he's also twice the batsman cook was. Makes the odds a lot more favorable than Cook.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Not sure he wants to though. English tend to call it a day and move on with other things in life besides cricket at the age of 35-36. Doubt Root will play until he is 40
    Sachin averaged 55, 48, 68, 78, 48, in 5 years before dropping and playing bad for 1 and half year before retiring (for contrast, ponting averaged over 45 just onc, and over 40 just twice, with not a single year over 50, in his last 7 years in cricket) This includes series wins in NZ, first in ever India drawing series in SA and first time India reaching rank no 1

    Which batsmen in the world would retired when in such good form?

  20. #20
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    Many think anyone can break Sachin's record if they can somehow crawl to 200th test!! It is not just about playing 200 odd tests by any means necessary but to stay in form and continue to being the best at your position the nation can offer till the 200th test. I don't remember Sachin having very lengthy rough patches, he would fail in a few tests and just come back with a bang firing on all cylinders usually with a daddy hundred. People underestimate the talent, focus and will power it takes to continue being the best in the game even after playing for 20+ years.

    Potential is a silly word, it is as good as a consolation award. Does Root has the the potential? May be, then so does Kohli, Smith and Labuschagne (Potentially!!). Will they break Sachin's record? NO
    Last edited by MenInG; 2nd February 2021 at 10:19.

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    TBH I think the English are overrating Root's recent exploits in SL way too much. He will be back to scoring pretty boy fifties for the next couple months.

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    Very little chance of Root surpassing Sachin record. I doubt he will play past age 35.

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    Do these Englishmen ever get tired of failing at these comparisons?

    While the rest of the world were producing Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis and Sangakkara, these guys were over the moon giving knighthood and MBEs to Atherton and Vaughan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Do these Englishmen ever get tired of failing at these comparisons?

    While the rest of the world were producing Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis and Sangakkara, these guys were over the moon giving knighthood and MBEs to Atherton and Vaughan.
    That's because Ashes is be-all and end-all for them. You can see the same symptoms how they are treating this India series.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    Many think anyone can break Sachin's record if they can somehow crawl to 200th test!! It is not just about playing 200 odd tests by any means necessary but to stay in form and continue to being the best at your position the nation can offer till the 200th test. I don't remember Sachin having very lengthy rough patches, he would fail in a few tests and just come back with a bang firing on all cylinders usually with a daddy hundred. People underestimate the talent, focus and will power it takes to continue being the best in the game even after playing for 20+ years.

    Potential is a silly word, it is as good as a consolation award. Does Root has the the potential? May be, then so does Kohli, Smith and Labuschagne (Potentially!!). Will they break Sachin's record? NO
    Root may or may not break Tendulkar's records. However people often grossly underrate longevity.

    Is it an everyday occurrence to stay motivated to keep your form, fitness and desire to do well for your country for 24 years?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    Root may or may not break Tendulkar's records. However people often grossly underrate longevity.

    Is it an everyday occurrence to stay motivated to keep your form, fitness and desire to do well for your country for 24 years?
    If Root goes on and score 15k test runs, he will be an ATG. But it will be a massive task to do that.

  27. #27
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    Joe Root is a much bigger match winner then Sach already, Sach is overly worshiped by the IT community only

  28. #28
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    This is what Cook was touted to become..we all know how it turned out to be.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/pe...ld-surpass-it/


    Win or lose - it is Team INDIA I choose...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    Many think anyone can break Sachin's record if they can somehow crawl to 200th test!! It is not just about playing 200 odd tests by any means necessary but to stay in form and continue to being the best at your position the nation can offer till the 200th test. I don't remember Sachin having very lengthy rough patches, he would fail in a few tests and just come back with a bang firing on all cylinders usually with a daddy hundred. People underestimate the talent, focus and will power it takes to continue being the best in the game even after playing for 20+ years.

    Potential is a silly word, it is as good as a consolation award. Does Root has the the potential? May be, then so does Kohli, Smith and Labuschagne (Potentially!!). Will they break Sachin's record? NO
    Tendulkar would not have played 200 Tests had he played for Australia or England. He had a really lean patch between 2003-2007 (bolstered by couple big knocks sprinkled between multiple failures) and would have been dropped by countries who don't make decisions based on emotion and nostalgia. Likes of Ian Chappell and Sanjay Manjrekar wrote articles at the time questioning his place in the side and predictably got a lot of hate from Sachinistas. I know SRT had a second wind after that but not many players would have got the opportunities he got. And less said about his patch from 2011 until retirement the better - didn't he average 30 odd for 25 or so Test matches with no hundreds?

    Overall from 2003 until his retirement SRT still had a good record but would struggle to make a second World XI of that time. That's almost half his career.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by silent ischemia View Post
    Australia, Australia, Australia. What Australia and what pace attack. India has busted this myth of Aussies being the benchmark. Apart from Cummins, Australia pace attack is ordinary. Can't even get the tail out. Starc is fading away, Hazelwood is only good with the new ball with wicket providing lateral movement while Green; the little said the better. Indian bowlers in any conditions are the new benchmark where the batsmen can assess themselves.
    What concerns me is the Australians will haven been stung out of complacency in time for the Ashes. England had the opportunity to catch them when they were overconfident.

  31. #31
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    Sir Geoffreyís comments about changes in Rootís technique and mental approach are on point.

    Root will certainly pass Cookís aggregate. Further than that, I donít know. I expect he will hang up his boots at 35 and go into the comm box. Better not to risk mental illness.

    He will be Englandís most successful test skipper in terms of matches won by miles, though.
    Last edited by Robert; 2nd February 2021 at 11:11.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmashIt View Post
    Tendulkar would not have played 200 Tests had he played for Australia or England. He had a really lean patch between 2003-2007 (bolstered by couple big knocks sprinkled between multiple failures) and would have been dropped by countries who don't make decisions based on emotion and nostalgia. Likes of Ian Chappell and Sanjay Manjrekar wrote articles at the time questioning his place in the side and predictably got a lot of hate from Sachinistas. I know SRT had a second wind after that but not many players would have got the opportunities he got. And less said about his patch from 2011 until retirement the better - didn't he average 30 odd for 25 or so Test matches with no hundreds?

    Overall from 2003 until his retirement SRT still had a good record but would struggle to make a second World XI of that time. That's almost half his career.
    That was Ganguly, not Sachin. SRT had a short bad patch between 2003-2006 but he was back to his best in 2007 and averaged 60+ between 2007-11. He probably played a couple of series extra and should have retired with 15,000 test runs and 55 test average.

    Even 15,000 was not going to be chased by any Englishmen even after playing 15 tests every years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    Sachin averaged 55, 48, 68, 78, 48, in 5 years before dropping and playing bad for 1 and half year before retiring (for contrast, ponting averaged over 45 just onc, and over 40 just twice, with not a single year over 50, in his last 7 years in cricket) This includes series wins in NZ, first in ever India drawing series in SA and first time India reaching rank no 1

    Which batsmen in the world would retired when in such good form?
    Top post. Busts the myth that Aussies are ruthless in team selection no matter what, even they respected and provided greater leeway to once in a generation talents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    Sachin averaged 55, 48, 68, 78, 48, in 5 years before dropping and playing bad for 1 and half year before retiring (for contrast, ponting averaged over 45 just onc, and over 40 just twice, with not a single year over 50, in his last 7 years in cricket) This includes series wins in NZ, first in ever India drawing series in SA and first time India reaching rank no 1

    Which batsmen in the world would retired when in such good form?
    Damn how you gonna average 78... Wow!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmashIt View Post
    Tendulkar would not have played 200 Tests had he played for Australia or England. He had a really lean patch between 2003-2007 (bolstered by couple big knocks sprinkled between multiple failures) and would have been dropped by countries who don't make decisions based on emotion and nostalgia. Likes of Ian Chappell and Sanjay Manjrekar wrote articles at the time questioning his place in the side and predictably got a lot of hate from Sachinistas. I know SRT had a second wind after that but not many players would have got the opportunities he got. And less said about his patch from 2011 until retirement the better - didn't he average 30 odd for 25 or so Test matches with no hundreds?

    Overall from 2003 until his retirement SRT still had a good record but would struggle to make a second World XI of that time. That's almost half his career.
    He averaged a whooping 91 in 2004, 44 in 2005 and 55 in 2007. Not at his best but definitely world class. Players of his stature and brand get special treatment from all board including Aus. Ponting had been in steady decline from 2007 till his retirement in 2012 averaging 39 in that period. So only Indian board runs on emotion and nostalgia and other are ruthless professional is pure **.
    Last edited by Hyperion66; 2nd February 2021 at 12:08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    Damn how you gonna average 78... Wow!
    He averaged 70+ in a calendar year 5 times in his career, Ponting did that 4 times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    India pace joke are so 1990s. You need to get with the times grandpa
    Tbf they are 2000s too

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMSS View Post
    I mean, Root is in the middle of a purple patch and he's set to play 17 tests this year alone. He can absolutely walk past Sachin's titanic record.

    The thing about Root is that he is quite like Cook when it comes to tracking the latter's career. Early debut, playing for a country that plays 12-14 tests a year etc. But he's also twice the batsman cook was. Makes the odds a lot more favorable than Cook.
    Cook played longer innings. Root is def more talented and good to watch but Cook scored runs as much as anyone out there especially being an opener in England. Mental that he scored 5th highest most runs ever and retired at age of 33

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    Quote Originally Posted by dani2k View Post
    This is what Cook was touted to become..we all know how it turned out to be.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/pe...ld-surpass-it/
    Lol what do you mean how it turned out to be. Guy is 5th highest run scorer of all time and retired at age of 33

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Cook played longer innings. Root is def more talented and good to watch but Cook scored runs as much as anyone out there especially being an opener in England. Mental that he scored 5th highest most runs ever and retired at age of 33
    Chef quit when he was still enjoying the game. No point going on and risking mental illness. He is a farmer now. Good luck to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    India pace joke are so 1990s. You need to get with the times grandpa
    I grew up.with seeing Parveen bowling with.the new bowl so no they're not "90s"...

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Chef quit when he was still enjoying the game. No point going on and risking mental illness. He is a farmer now. Good luck to him.
    Glad that the softie retired because the rest of us weren't enjoying the game with him around.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    That's because Ashes is be-all and end-all for them. You can see the same symptoms how they are treating this India series.
    Yep. Overall, England are the only team who find it hardest to:

    1. Produce a batsman averaging over 50+
    2. Produce a bowler averaging below 25-
    3. Produce cricketers who have lengthy cross-format careers.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

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    Wishing him well.

    From an equality perspective also, it would be nice to see a gay cricketer hold on to a major cricket world record.

    Having said that, Tendulkar's runs tally is a mountain to climb.

    It will take everything to surpass him in runs tally.

  45. #45
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    No chance.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    I think Alaistar Cook has been the only batsman with potential to break that record. Shame he retired at age of 33
    He was in decline. He did not have another 3,000 runs in him.

    Of course if he had maintained his 2010-2012 patch for another 2-3 years he would had a very realistic chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    He will fall short. Longevity is not everyone's cup of tea. You have to be truly legendary to achieve longevity. Root will end up with 13000 test runs at average of 47.5.
    I disagree 100 test matches are already a long career so longevity should not be questioned after that. Subcontinental players tend to be more greedy to play on as long as they can and also dont see other distractions in life that you would see if you grew up in the western world.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He was in decline. He did not have another 3,000 runs in him.

    Of course if he had maintained his 2010-2012 patch for another 2-3 years he would had a very realistic chance.
    Sachin was in decline for the last 5 years still played on. Cook could have done the same but there are distractions in life in the western world beyond cricket. Indian and most subcontinental players love to stay on for as long as they can as they dont see anything else that could be better in life. or worth doing before they get too old.

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    I love Sir Geoff but don't see that happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    I disagree 100 test matches are already a long career so longevity should not be questioned after that. Subcontinental players tend to be more greedy to play on as long as they can and also dont see other distractions in life that you would see if you grew up in the western world.
    It matters otherwise someone like Anderson won't be ATG. Maintaining a performance for 150 test is greater than 100 tests.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    It matters otherwise someone like Anderson won't be ATG. Maintaining a performance for 150 test is greater than 100 tests.
    It matters but once you have played something like 100 test you have proven everything there is to be proven if you have been good enough in those 100 games. If you want to play on beyond that depends if you still have age on your side and how long you want to carry on.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    It matters but once you have played something like 100 test you have proven everything there is to be proven if you have been good enough in those 100 games. If you want to play on beyond that depends if you still have age on your side and how long you want to carry on.
    So, Anderson is not an ATG according to you? Because he wasn't when he played 100 tests.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    Sachin was in decline for the last 5 years still played on. Cook could have done the same but there are distractions in life in the western world beyond cricket. Indian and most subcontinental players love to stay on for as long as they can as they dont see anything else that could be better in life. or worth doing before they get too old.
    He wasnít. Tendulkar was among the best Test and ODI batsmen in the world until 2011, and he only played 2 years past his prime.

    He would have retired from ODIs after the 2011 World Cup had he managed to score his 100th century. He was not going to walk away with 99. Unfortunately, that chased dragged on until the 2012 Asia Cup.

    You can fault him for not retiring after that tournament and was actually forced into ODI retirement by Indian selectors when they didnít pick him for Pakistan series.

    Similarly in Tests, he dragged his career a bit in the end in 2012-2013 but to claim that he was in decline for the past 5 years or so is totally incorrect.

    Tendulkar averaged in the 60s in Test cricket from 2008 to 2011.

    He only declined from 2011 onwards, where he averaged in the 30s in 2012 and 2013.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    So, Anderson is not an ATG according to you? Because he wasn't when he played 100 tests.
    What do you mean by ATG is he greater than Mcgrath no way! IS he greater than even Amborse no way. The word ATG is thrown around too often for me to know what it actually means.

    But you also need to read my comments again, I said if you have been good enough for 100 test and established yourself as among the best than thats long enough.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He wasn’t. Tendulkar was among the best Test and ODI batsmen in the world until 2011, and he only played 2 years past his prime.

    He would have retired from ODIs after the 2011 World Cup had he managed to score his 100th century. He was not going to walk away with 99. Unfortunately, that chased dragged on until the 2012 Asia Cup.

    You can fault him for not retiring after that tournament and was actually forced into ODI retirement by Indian selectors when they didn’t pick him for Pakistan series.

    Similarly in Tests, he dragged his career a bit in the end in 2012-2013 but to claim that he was in decline for the past 5 years or so is totally incorrect.

    Tendulkar averaged in the 60s in Test cricket from 2008 to 2011.

    He only declined from 2011 onwards, where he averaged in the 30s in 2012 and 2013.
    He was in decline for the last 5 years of his career, he still scored runs as he was a great player to begin win, And yes if it was up to him he would have played for another 5 years but he was dropped.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    He was in decline for the last 5 years of his career, he still scored runs as he was a great player to begin win, And yes if it was up to him he would have played for another 5 years but he was dropped.
    Once again, he averaged in the 60s from 2008 to 2011. What sort of decline is that?

    Many people consider 90ís to be his peak, and guess what - his average from 2008 to 2011 was roughly the same as his average in the 90s.

    Your statement that he was in decline for the last 5 years of his career is factually incorrect. He was only decline only in the last 2 years of his career.

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    Tendulkar wasn't dropped from any format.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Tendulkar wasn't dropped from any format.
    This. Uninformed may claim whatever they want to, won't change the reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    What do you mean by ATG is he greater than Mcgrath no way! IS he greater than even Amborse no way. The word ATG is thrown around too often for me to know what it actually means.

    But you also need to read my comments again, I said if you have been good enough for 100 test and established yourself as among the best than thats long enough.
    But my point is that will you rate any other bowler with 100 tests, around 400 wickets and overall average of 26 with home average of 23 and away average of 32 as high as Anderson??

    Boult is an all-format bowler, played 75 tests and looks fit enough to play 3-4 years, he will get to 100 tests too. But the point is the more he plays his stats will get hurt. While the same wasn't the case with Jimmy.

    Hence, Jimmy will always be rated higher than Boult and the reasoning is longevity.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Once again, he averaged in the 60s from 2008 to 2011. What sort of decline is that?

    Many people consider 90ís to be his peak, and guess what - his average from 2008 to 2011 was roughly the same as his average in the 90s.

    Your statement that he was in decline for the last 5 years of his career is factually incorrect. He was only decline only in the last 2 years of his career.
    Someone who was touted to be greatest since Don (that too way back in 2001 itself) can have a leeway of 2 years at least.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    He was in decline for the last 5 years of his career, he still scored runs as he was a great player to begin win, And yes if it was up to him he would have played for another 5 years but he was dropped.
    Averaged 48+ in 2008, 67+ in 2009, 78+ in 2010, 47+ in 2011.. Is that a decline? You must have a high ceiling to call that a decline. Or perhaps, you just haven't checked the stats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    India pace joke are so 1990s. You need to get with the times grandpa
    In all honesty I really miss watching Praveen Kumar bowl. His medium pace, seam position and ability to move the new ball was just a joy to watch. It was like poetry in motion.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Once again, he averaged in the 60s from 2008 to 2011. What sort of decline is that?

    Many people consider 90’s to be his peak, and guess what - his average from 2008 to 2011 was roughly the same as his average in the 90s.

    Your statement that he was in decline for the last 5 years of his career is factually incorrect. He was only decline only in the last 2 years of his career.
    Forget the number, The numbers were propped up by scoring easy runs but his quality reduced massively in the last 4/5 years. Various other players in his own team started performing better than him where before that it never happened and despite playing with all start batting line up his performances were always better than others.

    Anyway the point was he was not the same player as he was for the first 15 years but still carried on playing because he wanted to. And he wanted to play even longer as you yourself has pointed out.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    But my point is that will you rate any other bowler with 100 tests, around 400 wickets and overall average of 26 with home average of 23 and away average of 32 as high as Anderson??

    Boult is an all-format bowler, played 75 tests and looks fit enough to play 3-4 years, he will get to 100 tests too. But the point is the more he plays his stats will get hurt. While the same wasn't the case with Jimmy.

    Hence, Jimmy will always be rated higher than Boult and the reasoning is longevity.
    Again Jimmy was a great bowler even after 100 tests, yes he has improved his stats even more since then but who is to say the stats wont deteriorate again? Once you have played 100 tests you have played long enough to be judged and that's the whole point.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    Someone who was touted to be greatest since Don (that too way back in 2001 itself) can have a leeway of 2 years at least.
    He could have a leeway for 10 years if he wanted but that was not the point.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarmfast View Post
    Averaged 48+ in 2008, 67+ in 2009, 78+ in 2010, 47+ in 2011.. Is that a decline? You must have a high ceiling to call that a decline. Or perhaps, you just haven't checked the stats.
    Yes I call it a decline for a player as good as Sachin, He was not the same player as before and his runs were not as decisive for his team as before. His two year wait for the 100 was a long time coming.

    I watched cricket a lot at that time and it was so obvious I was not watching the same player.

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    He won't. He will retire at 34/35.

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    I highly doubt Joe root would even be contemplating playing another 80 tests.

    He will be gone in 3/4 yrs time depending on form and what happens in the ashes

    The English management and media are ruthless if the player is not up the mark or has some offfield or personel issue they get rid very quickly or slaughter them badly in the papers.

    Look at swann how he gave up and flew back from Australia and retired just couldn't handle the pressure.

    Management was pretty ruthless with Kevin pietersen a world class player was discarded at 33 . Whilst the pcb can't even retire hafeez from the national team or has the cajones to retire afridi from the psl even though he is past 45 yrs of age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He was in decline. He did not have another 3,000 runs in him.

    Of course if he had maintained his 2010-2012 patch for another 2-3 years he would had a very realistic chance.
    He was in decline overall so was not a great contributor but in terms of putting Runs he still had 1-2 good innings every series similar to Younis khan in his last 3 years.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He wasnít. Tendulkar was among the best Test and ODI batsmen in the world until 2011, and he only played 2 years past his prime.

    He would have retired from ODIs after the 2011 World Cup had he managed to score his 100th century. He was not going to walk away with 99. Unfortunately, that chased dragged on until the 2012 Asia Cup.

    You can fault him for not retiring after that tournament and was actually forced into ODI retirement by Indian selectors when they didnít pick him for Pakistan series.

    Similarly in Tests, he dragged his career a bit in the end in 2012-2013 but to claim that he was in decline for the past 5 years or so is totally incorrect.

    Tendulkar averaged in the 60s in Test cricket from 2008 to 2011.

    He only declined from 2011 onwards, where he averaged in the 30s in 2012 and 2013.
    He was poor for a 2.5 year period in 2000s too. By that time he was already mid 30s so if he was an English player he would have either left of his own accord or been shown the door. England have very little patience for players who go out of form post 32.

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    If anyone is going to break record of Sachin that player is most likely going to be from Eng, India and Aus as no other team plays as much matches to have a player who can play as many tests. Not implying everyone can play as many but, even if someone can other teams have no chance because of less tests they are gonna play in comparison.
    Last edited by Titan24; 2nd February 2021 at 21:07.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    If anyone is going to break record of Sachin that player is most likely going to be from Eng, India and Aus as no other team plays as much matches to have a player who can play as many tests. Not implying everyone can play as many but, even if someone can other teams have no chance because of less tests they are gonna play in comparison.
    Heís going to be from England, Australia and Aus and make his debut as a teenager and play till late 30s.

    Breaking sachinís runs record is purely about playing as long as possible. Many players score at the same rate or better than him so thatís not the issue here.

    Sachin played since he was 16 to almost 40. That just doesnít happen.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Breaking sachinís runs record is purely about playing as long as possible. Many players score at the same rate or better than him so thatís not the issue here.
    You are making it sound as if it's that easy. Is playing 200 tests or for 24 years is easy?

    Not an issue lol, may I ask again, is playing with same intensity is as easy as you make it appear?

  74. #74
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    First it was Ponting who was held as the one to break Tendulkar's records. Then came Kallis, Sanga, Cook, who all flattered to deceive.

    Now it's Smith and Root.

    As I said earlier, people here criminally underrate longevity. When that longevity comes with Tendulkar's consistency for close to 2.5 decades, it's priceless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    You are making it sound as if it's that easy. Is playing 200 tests or for 24 years is easy?

    Not an issue lol, may I ask again, is playing with same intensity is as easy as you make it appear?
    Lol no obviously. I didnít intend to make doing that appear easy if thatís how it came across.

    Playing that long and more or less (everyone has dips) maintaining that high level of performance is literally the biggest challenge there is which is why I said it wonít be broken. This is also why I rate Anderson so highly.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Lol no obviously. I didnít intend to make doing that appear easy if thatís how it came across.

    Playing that long and more or less (everyone has dips) maintaining that high level of performance is literally the biggest challenge there is which is why I said it wonít be broken. This is also why I rate Anderson so highly.
    Agree with this. Anderson is a good example of longevity with consistency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    First it was Ponting who was held as the one to break Tendulkar's records. Then came Kallis, Sanga, Cook, who all flattered to deceive.

    Now it's Smith and Root.

    As I said earlier, people here criminally underrate longevity. When that longevity comes with Tendulkar's consistency for close to 2.5 decades, it's priceless.
    The way Ponting was going on till the 2007 WC, and the way Sachin was struggling till the same time frame, it appeared obvious to even a blind man that Ponting would take over Sachin. But things changed dramatically after the 2007 WC, and Sachin regained his form while Ponting went downhill.


    If there is a better batsman than Sachin then he hasn't arrived yet: Viv Richards

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    He has to maintain his form for next 6 - 7 years , that is not easy but his advantage is that England play a lot of test matches. Lets see how much he gets against India , I think he would have 8 innings , can he get 500 plus runs or not. He should try and get as close as possible to 9 000 runs by the time Indian series ends.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    The way Ponting was going on till the 2007 WC, and the way Sachin was struggling till the same time frame, it appeared obvious to even a blind man that Ponting would take over Sachin. But things changed dramatically after the 2007 WC, and Sachin regained his form while Ponting went downhill.
    That's why its imperative to maintain sanity, don't take anything for granted and think realistically when we talk about someone looking to conquer Everest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    He won't. He will retire at 34/35.
    That would be sensible. No point going on until the team is carrying you like Tendulkar and Ponting.

    India have a bit of a weakness here. They let their top players carry on past their prime to break milestones. That was a factor in England’s win there on the Cook tour.

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