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  1. #1
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    Black Lives Matter thread

    This is the thread for anything related to racial injustice and Black Lives Matter movement.

  2. #2
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    Black McDonald's owner sues for racial discrimination

    A former professional baseball player who was once the largest black McDonald's operator in the US has sued the company for racial discrimination.

    Herb Washington said the firm had denied black owners the opportunities it gave to whites, including by steering them to stores to "distressed, predominantly black" areas.

    He accused the company of retaliating against him after he raised concerns.

    McDonald's blamed his troubles on "mismanagement".

    In a statement, the firm said it was reviewing the complaint, adding that Mr Washington was facing "business challenges that we don't want for anyone in our system."

    "This situation is the result of years of mismanagement by Mr Washington, whose organisation has failed to meet many of our standards on people, operations, guest satisfaction and reinvestment," the company said.

    "His restaurants have a public record of these issues, including past health and sanitation concerns, and some of the highest volumes of customer complaints in the country."

    'Two-tiered system'
    McDonald's has faced similar claims from black franchise owners before. In a lawsuit last year, more than 50 former franchise owners accused the company of steering them to stores in less desirable neighbourhoods.

    Mr Washington, who opened his first McDonald's franchise in 1980 at the age of 29 after a brief stint playing for the Oakland Athletics, said the firm had repeatedly hindered his business.

    That included by blocking him from buying stores from a white franchise owner and denying him financial assistance comparable to that offered to white operators.

    Despite the challenges, Mr Washington said he at one point ranked as the company's largest black operator in the US, with 27 restaurants. He continues to own 14 stores.

    "I always held out hope that they would live up to their promises and put an end to a two-tiered system," he said at a press conference announcing the lawsuit, which was filed in federal court in Ohio. "I believed that McDonald's was going to do the right thing."

    Since 2017, he said the company had targeted him for "extinction" in retaliation for his speaking up about racial disparities, pushing him to sell certain stores in exchange for contract extensions on others.

    At the press conference, he rejected the firm's characterisation of his business, saying that McDonald's wouldn't have allowed him to be a franchisee for 40 years if he were consistently "bringing down the brand".

    "When I stood up for myself and other black franchisees, McDonald's began to dismantle my life's work," he said. "I didn't quit on McDonald's. McDonald's quit on me."

    'Racist policies and practices'
    In his lawsuit, Mr Washington said the company's discriminatory policies worsened after British-born Steve Easterbrook took over in 2015.

    Mr Easterbrook was fired from the company in 2019 for having a consensual relationship with a subordinate in violation of the firm's policies.

    During his tenure, the company implemented remodelling initiatives that were "designed to force black franchisees out of the McDonald's system," the lawsuit says.

    The number of black McDonald's franchisees in the US has dropped from 377 to 186 since 1998, the lawsuit says. It also says black-owned restaurants average $700,000 less in sales annually than white-owned ones.

    "These numbers are not a coincidence; they are the result of McDonald's intentionally racist policies and practices toward black franchisees," the lawsuit says.

    McDonald's, which announced a diversity initiative in July amid the Black Lives Matter protests, said performance at black-owned restaurants had improved and it did not place franchisees in specific locations, but made recommendations.

    It added that the company had taken steps to reduce the number of overall number of operators across all demographic groups as part of a restructuring initiative. Nearly 30% of its franchises are "ethnically diverse", it said.
    Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56088823.

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    Los Angeles police 'wanted Amazon Ring BLM protest footage'

    Los Angeles police asked Amazon Ring smart home system users for camera footage from last summer's Black Lives Matter protests, says privacy group the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF).

    Ring makes internet-connected doorbells and security cameras, alongside a video recording subscription service.

    The EFF obtained emails from police asking for footage from the protests.

    An LA police spokesman said it was "not uncommon" for them to ask businesses or residents to voluntarily share footage.

    "Often, surveillance footage is the most valuable piece in an investigator's case," the spokesman added.

    Authorities have previously come under fire for surveillance of those taking part in the largely peaceful marches across the US.

    The use of aerial surveillance drones and widespread filming of peaceful protests led to accusations that the right to privacy of legitimate protesters had been infringed. And the apparently widespread use of social media monitoring tools raised similar questions.

    However, there were also some incidents of businesses being vandalised and fires being started in Los Angeles during the unrest.

    'Not uncommon'
    The Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) created the Safe LA Task Force days after the first protests, with the aim of receiving tips and investigating the protests against police violence.

    The EFF said emails from the police asked home owners for recordings that could help their investigations into alleged crimes that occurred during the marches.

    Amazon requires that any requests from police include a valid case number for an active investigation, as well as details of the incident.

    Such requests can only be made if the purpose is to "identify individuals responsible for theft, property damage, and physical injury", the company said in a statement.

    An Amazon Ring user is under no obligation to share data.

    The LAPD is one of more than 2,000 government agencies which have agreements with Amazon.

    All but two US states, Montana and Wyoming, have police and fire departments that were participating in Amazon's network as of January 2021.

    There have been increasing concerns among privacy advocates about how Ring data is being used by authorities.

    In the UK, Wiltshire police set up a database of private smart doorbells and security cameras last year, and residents are being asked to register their details on it.

    In contrast, leaked documents emerged in September suggesting that the FBI was concerned Ring users may be using their cameras to spy on police.
    Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56099167.

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    Elijah McClain: ‘No legal basis’ for detention that led to death

    An independent report in Colorado has said that officers involved in the death of a young black man in police custody had no legal standing to stop, frisk and detain him.

    Elijah McClain died in 2019 in the city of Aurora, three days after being put in a chokehold and injected with ketamine.

    A panel of outside experts faulted the police officers for stopping the 23-year-old and the paramedics for giving him too much ketamine without a proper examination.

    Officers were initially cleared of wrongdoing, but the case sparked outrage across the state, receiving renewed attention last year after the death of George Floyd.

    The 150-page independent report was conducted after activists from across the country flooded local law enforcement offices with calls and emails.

    A petition expressing outrage over the circumstances surrounding McClain's death was started, which now has more than five million signatures.

    What happened to Elijah McClain?

    McClain, an autistic musician and massage therapist, was walking home from the corner store when three white police officers confronted him.

    A district attorney report later said there had been an emergency call about a "suspicious person" matching his description.

    McClain was unarmed and wearing an open-face ski mask, which his family has said protected him from chronic chills due to his anaemia.

    Listening to music on his headphones, the 23-year-old had ignored calls from the officers to stop walking and - when restrained - pleaded with officers that he had done nothing wrong.

    The officers wrestled the struggling McClain to the ground and placed him in a carotid chokehold, to which he said "I can't breathe", the same refrain famously uttered by Floyd before his death.

    On body cam footage McClain can be heard saying, "I'm an introvert, please respect my boundaries that I am speaking".

    McClain lost consciousness, was released from the chokehold and began to struggle again, the district attorney report says.

    The officers called for assistance, with fire fighters and an ambulance responding. A fire medic injected McClain with 500mg of the drug ketamine to sedate him.

    Mr McClain was then put in "soft restraints" on a stretcher and put inside the ambulance. The medic who had administered the drug then noticed that Mr McClain's chest "was not rising on its own, and he did not have a pulse". He was declared brain dead on 27 August.

    The case was dropped last year after both a review of body camera footage and an autopsy seemed inconclusive, and the local district attorney repeatedly declined to bring criminal charges against the officers.

    What does the new report say?

    The new independent report - initiated by the Aurora City Council and released on Monday morning - said the "decision to turn what may have been a consensual encounter into an investigatory stop in fewer than 10 seconds didn't appear to be supported by reasonable suspicion of criminal activity".

    It also states that the officers inaccurately reported McClain's weight to the paramedics who arrived on the scene, which resulted in them injecting McClain with a "grossly inaccurate" and excessive dose of ketamine.

    The report says the police department's review of the incident "failed to present a neutral, objective version of the facts".

    They ignored evidence that showed McClain "surrounded by officers, all larger than he, crying out in pain, apologizing, explaining himself, and pleading with the officers", investigators wrote.

    In addition to the report, a separate grand jury investigation of the incident is also underway in the state.

    The FBI and Department of Justice are also looking into the case after the McClain family filed a federal civil rights lawsuit last year.

    The family maintains the use of excessive force by police caused his death.

    McClain has been described by family, friends and business clients as "gentle" and "child-like".
    Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56134565.

  5. #5
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    Daniel Prude: No charges for US officers over 'spit-hood' death

    New York police officers filmed restraining an unarmed black man until he stopped breathing will not be charged over his death, officials say.

    Daniel Prude, who had mental health issues, died in Rochester city after officers put him in "spit hood" designed to protect police.

    The death in March last year led to days of protests against police.

    On Tuesday, New York's attorney general said a grand jury had declined to indict any officers in the case.

    "I know that the Prude family, the Rochester community and communities across the country will rightfully be disappointed by this outcome," Letitia James said at a news conference.

    "My office presented an extensive case, and we sought a different outcome than the one the grand jury handed us today."

    A grand jury is set up by a prosecutor to determine whether there is enough evidence to pursue a prosecution. In legal terms, it determines whether probable cause exists to believe a crime has been committed.

    Ms James expressed disappointment with the grand jury's verdict, alluding to other cases in which officers had not been held accountable for "the unjustified killing of unarmed African Americans".

    Mr Prude's death was one of the key events in months of unrest over racial injustice in the US last year.
    Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56174489.

  6. #6
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    George Floyd's family has just received a multimillion dollar settlement from the city of Minneapolis, but it does seem that with Trump out of the White House, the whole movement has drifted away from the public eye.

    It was always naive to suppose that mainstream support for the movement was genuine, rather than used as a fulcrum against the Trump administration. It's somewhat tragic.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    George Floyd's family has just received a multimillion dollar settlement from the city of Minneapolis, but it does seem that with Trump out of the White House, the whole movement has drifted away from the public eye.

    It was always naive to suppose that mainstream support for the movement was genuine, rather than used as a fulcrum against the Trump administration. It's somewhat tragic.
    Focus has shifted to the pandemic. 550,000 Americans have died of COVID to date.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Focus has shifted to the pandemic. 550,000 Americans have died of COVID to date.
    I will assume that this was stated in jest, given that the irony of protesting in the middle of a pandemic was lost last summer.

    More than a hundred thousand people had died before the protests started, but apparently it didn't matter because it was for the right cause.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    I will assume that this was stated in jest, given that the irony of protesting in the middle of a pandemic was lost last summer.

    More than a hundred thousand people had died before the protests started, but apparently it didn't matter because it was for the right cause.
    No, a jest about half a million casualties wouldn’t be appropriate.

    Plenty of demonstrators were masked up. Now they have 46 who is listening instead of 45 fuelling the blaze.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    No, a jest about half a million casualties wouldnít be appropriate.

    Plenty of demonstrators were masked up. Now they have 46 who is listening instead of 45 fuelling the blaze.
    Plenty of demonstrators resorted to violence too.

    46 is not listening. He can't even enforce US citizens to wear masks. One day you will realise how State US law is not the same as Federal, and Biden faces the same challenges as Trump did.

    When Biden musters the courage to face the press, he can explain why, until then, he's done nothing that Trump didn't do. Even hijacked Trump's Covid stimulus package.

  11. #11
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    Why don't the BLM cult talk when many blacks are killed in african countries. Just last month many died in explosions. Or does black lives matter only when its blacks living in white nations and they get killed by whites?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Why don't the BLM cult talk when many blacks are killed in african countries. Just last month many died in explosions. Or does black lives matter only when its blacks living in white nations and they get killed by whites?
    Exactly. Only Black lives in the West matter, and only when whites kill blacks do black lives matter. No talk or action on black on black murders in the West.

    This is why BLM is left wing propaganda.

    Avoid like the plague.

  13. #13
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    Breonna Taylor: Protest to mark anniversary of police killing

    People are gathering in the US city of Louisville for a demonstration to mark a year since the death of Breonna Taylor, a 26-year-old black medic shot dead when police raided her home.

    The incident caused outrage, spurring protests against racism and brutality.

    Ms Taylor was shot by officers who forced entry into her home using a "no-knock" warrant that meant they did not have to announce themselves.

    The three police officers who carried out the raid were eventually sacked.

    During the operation Ms Taylor's boyfriend Kenneth Walker shot and wounded one of the officers. Earlier this month a charge of attempted murder against him was dropped.

    Mr Walker said he fired once because he believed criminals were breaking in. The officers responded with 32 shots, six of which struck Ms Taylor.

    However a grand jury decided not to charge any of them over Ms Taylor's death, sparking protests.

    Ahead of Saturday's demonstration, Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear said in a statement that he would "never understand the unimaginable grief" of Ms Taylor's family and loved ones.

    "Today we remember Breonna Taylor, her tragic and unnecessary loss and the immense work we have ahead of us," he said.

    The FBI's Louisville field office also issued a statement saying that its investigation into Ms Taylor's death had made "significant progress" since it began last May, without providing further details.

    Ms Taylor's killing did not initially attract nationwide attention. But it received renewed focus after the police killing of unarmed black man George Floyd in Minneapolis, which ignited anti-racism protests around the world.

    Her case attracted the support of celebrities such as tennis star Naomi Osaka and basketball legend LeBron James.

    At the protest, Camille Bascus told AFP why she had travelled more than 400 miles (650km) from Atlanta to attend.

    "It's been a year and justice has not been served," the 50-year-old said.

    She said she wanted to "represent the people without voices, because they no longer have a heartbeat. We have a voice and our lives matter".
    Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56387446.

  14. #14
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    US announcer uses racist slur as basketball players kneel for anthem

    An announcer for a live broadcast of a girls' high school basketball game in Oklahoma was caught using a racist slur and profanities against players who knelt during the national anthem.

    Matt Rowan, owner and operator of the streaming service OSPN, later admitted using the words and apologised.

    The incident happened before the match between Norman High School and Midwest City quarter final game.

    Kneeling for the national anthem symbolises a protest against racism.

    NFL player Colin Kaepernick sparked the movement in 2016 when he knelt during the anthem in protest at police brutality - but it was controversial with many in the US, including former President Trump, viewing the gesture as unpatriotic.

    Matt Rowan's comments were overheard during a break in the live stream on the National Federation of High School (NFHS) Network.

    Appearing not to realise the stream was still live, he could be heard reacting to the decision by some of the players from Norman School to kneel while the Star Spangled Banner played.

    "They're kneeling?... I hope Norman gets their *** kicked," he said, using a profanity.

    "I hope they lose. C'mon Midwest City. They're gonna kneel like that?" He then went on to use a profanity and a racist slur. The video was posted to Twitter on Friday.

    Matt Rowan later blamed his "horrible statements" on his Type 1 diabetes. "While not excusing my remarks it is not unusual when my sugar spikes that I become disoriented and often say things that are not appropriate as well as hurtful," he said in a statement.

    His firm was hired by the Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association (OSSAA) to broadcast the game on the NFHS Network - and both organisations apologised, said they were investigating the incident and would not be working again with the broadcast crew.

    Dr Nick Migliorino, the superintendent of Norman City's public schools, condemned "the disgusting words and attitudes of these announcers" and said they fully supported the players' right to freedom of expression.

    "It is tragic that the hard work and skill of this team is being overshadowed by the vile, malignant words of these individuals," he said.

    Norman Mayor Breea Clark said she was "livid and absolutely disgusted" by the incident and plans to hold a town hall listening session with the city's youth to "learn how this incident has impacted them and hear directly from our kids how we can improve our community going forward."
    Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56384595.

  15. #15
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    Black residents to get reparations in Evanston, Illinois

    A suburb of Chicago is to become the first city in the United States to pay reparations to black residents who have suffered housing discrimination.

    The city council in Evanston, Illinois, voted 8-1 to distribute $25,000 (£18,000) each to 16 eligible black households to use for home repairs or as down payments on property.

    The funds come mostly from a new tax on legalised marijuana.

    Black Americans were disadvantaged by racist housing decisions.

    To be eligible, residents must be a black person who lived in Evanston between 1919 to 1969, or a descendant of such a person. The family must also have been a victim of discrimination in housing because of policies or practices in the city in that time.

    Evanston has pledged distribute $10 million over a decade. Around 16% of the city's residents are black.

    White residents in Evanston out-earn black residents by $46,000 a year.

    "We're very excited to see the first national direct benefit from some of the harms we've had to experience from the past," Kamm Howard, co-chair of the National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America, told CBS News.

    "The more local initiatives occur, the more impetus there is on the federal government to act."

    But not everyone has been supportive of reparations in this form.

    Alderman Cicely Fleming, who is herself black and voted against the plan, said she supported reparations, but said the plan assumed black people could not manage their own money.

    "True reparations should respect black people's autonomy and allow them to determine how repair will be managed," she said.

    Discussions over how to address housing discrimination increased following a report last year that illustrated how black people had faced restrictions on where they could live dating back to 1855, when the first black resident arrived.

    The impact over generations "was cumulative and permanent. They were the means by which legacies were limited and denied", the report stated.

    A fair housing law was passed in Evanston in 1968, but evidence showed that black people were steered towards a section of town where they were the majority until 1985.

    Hundreds of communities across the US are considering reparations to black people, including the state of California, Iowa City and Providence, Rhode Island.

    But there is not a lot of support for such reparations in the US.

    A Reuters/Ipsos survey last year found that just 20% of respondents backed using "taxpayer money to pay damages to descendants of enslaved people in the United States".

    The movement towards some form of reparation for African Americans as a restitution for centuries of slavery and racism accelerated in the wake of the death of George Floyd last year. The unarmed black man died in Minneapolis while detained by police and this sparked worldwide protests.
    Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56497294.

  16. #16
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    Thierry Henry: It was time to make a stand against social media racism

    Former Arsenal and France striker Thierry Henry said that "enough was enough" and he had to make a stand against racism on social media.

    The 43-year-old said last week he was removing himself from social media because of racism and bullying across platforms.

    He said the problem was "too toxic to ignore".

    "It was time to make a stand," said Henry, speaking to the BBC's Newsnight programme on Monday.

    "Things I used to hear in the stadiums and the streets are coming more and more into social media, especially in my community, and the sport I love the most, football.

    "I thought it was time to make a stand and time to make people realise it is not OK to get abused online, it's not OK to be bullied or harassed online.

    "The impact it can have on your mental health is second to none, we know people are committing suicides because of it. Enough is enough. We need actions.

    "It is too easy to get an account and get away with it at times."

    On Monday, Tottenham and Wales forward Gareth Bale said he would support a boycott of social media over the issue, if a campaign could be organised.

    Henry won two Premier League titles with Arsenal, where he played between 1999 and 2007.

    Last September, he detailed instances of racism he experienced during his playing career with Arsenal and France.

    "It is not a safe place," Henry added. "[Crystal Palace forward] Wilfried Zaha says when he goes on social media he is scared to look at the comments, it should not be like that. It should not be like you feel you should not do something.

    "I think everybody should be concerned about what's happening. All I'm saying is, 'can it be a safe place?' At the end of the day it is a great tool and is vital and a great way to connect with your fans, or to put out a statement to rectify something.

    "But it is too easy for the people who are trying to harm people to get away with it and hide behind fake accounts. For me it is about accountability."

    Twitter has said it is "committed to Kick It Out's initiative to tackle online hate, and look forward to continuing these discussions and developing solutions with our partners in football".

    Instagram, which is owned by Facebook, said it took action on 6.6 million pieces of hate speech between October and December last year and will "take tougher action when we become of aware of people breaking our rules in DMs [direct messages]".
    Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56571395.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Why don't the BLM cult talk when many blacks are killed in african countries. Just last month many died in explosions. Or does black lives matter only when its blacks living in white nations and they get killed by whites?
    Who wants to do self introspection? In this world whoever does it gets taken for a ride. Racism is not patent of whites, almost every community White , Black , Asians are racists in some way or the other. Only a section of the whites have actually taken steps in the right direction even though they have a long way to go. Hardly that can be said about African and Asian communities.

  18. #18
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    BLM is a movement that is an attack on white people. Too bad too many white people are too naive to realise that they are under attack from this movement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_KING View Post
    BLM is a movement that is an attack on white people. Too bad too many white people are too naive to realise that they are under attack from this movement.
    Unfortunately in the current world if you raise your hand and tell that you have committed wrong and you are going to make it better, then while you will receive some appreciation from a section of the community, you are also making yourself vulnerable to be exploited by others.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_KING View Post
    BLM is a movement that is an attack on white people. Too bad too many white people are too naive to realise that they are under attack from this movement.
    Iím white. It isnít an attack on me. Itís a call for the police to treat black people as respectfully as they do me.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I’m white. It isn’t an attack on me. It’s a call for the police to treat black people as respectfully as they do me.
    So police treats you with respect because of your race, and not because you are a law abiding citizen? And police mistreats others because of their race and not because they don't follow the law?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I’m white. It isn’t an attack on me. It’s a call for the police to treat black people as respectfully as they do me.
    that guy whose death parked this outrage, is it true that he had a criminal past and committed multiple crimes?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    So police treats you with respect because of your race, and not because you are a law abiding citizen? And police mistreats others because of their race and not because they don't follow the law?
    No. But I am much less likely than a black man to be stop-searched. They less likely to be arrested, less likely to have forced applied and so on.

    This is one example of my white privilege.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    So police treats you with respect because of your race, and not because you are a law abiding citizen? And police mistreats others because of their race and not because they don't follow the law?
    I dont have any issues with the police because if they do stop me and ask for my ID i will be happy to provide them with my ID and respectfully supply any information they require, I will not tell them I dont have to provide ID and I wont start arguing with them about why they stopped me or why they want information from me.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    No. But I am much less likely than a black man to be stop-searched. They less likely to be arrested, less likely to have forced applied and so on.

    This is one example of my white privilege.
    less likely because you are well off and less likely to commit crimes, and they are more likely to commit crimes because of their poor background? or is this likelihood nothing to do with socio economic background but their race?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I dont have any issues with the police because if they do stop me and ask for my ID i will be happy to provide them with my ID and respectfully supply any information they require, I will not tell them I dont have to provide ID and I wont start arguing with them about why they stopped me or why they want information from me.
    But American laws and values are different from those in Australia, people here don't like being told what to do without a valid reason - if you want to search a car then you must have a valid search warrant or people will tell you off.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I dont have any issues with the police because if they do stop me and ask for my ID i will be happy to provide them with my ID and respectfully supply any information they require, I will not tell them I dont have to provide ID and I wont start arguing with them about why they stopped me or why they want information from me.
    Is it true that the man who died had a criminal past and had committed multiple crimes? So how did people conclude that he died because of his race, and not because the cops applied more force knowing his history? Also heard that some millions were given to the man's family as compensation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I dont have any issues with the police because if they do stop me and ask for my ID i will be happy to provide them with my ID and respectfully supply any information they require, I will not tell them I dont have to provide ID and I wont start arguing with them about why they stopped me or why they want information from me.
    try doing it 3-4 times a day every time you go out
    and than tell me how you feel?

    People don't like to put themselves in other peoples shoes
    Last edited by Bigboii; 31st March 2021 at 10:04.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    try doing it 3-4 times a day every time you go out
    and than tell me how you feel?

    People don't like to put themselves in other peoples shoes
    People dont like to put themselves in the police shoes either. Can you imagine what they have to go through every time they go to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    People dont like to put themselves in the police shoes either. Can you imagine what they have to go through every time they go to work.
    Then maybe they should change their careers instead of killing people (a massive generalization here btw).

    Police very rarely stops and searches real criminals (I'm talking about pro criminals, gang members, cartels etc.). Every big city on this planet of ours have designated places for drugs, prostitution etc. and even common people know about it. But you don't see police going in there and stopping them.
    Last edited by WhenSultansBowled; 31st March 2021 at 12:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    less likely because you are well off and less likely to commit crimes, and they are more likely to commit crimes because of their poor background? or is this likelihood nothing to do with socio economic background but their race?
    No, itís to do with police being institutionally racist.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I dont have any issues with the police because if they do stop me and ask for my ID i will be happy to provide them with my ID and respectfully supply any information they require, I will not tell them I dont have to provide ID and I wont start arguing with them about why they stopped me or why they want information from me.
    Ok, but if it happens again and again and again? Over weeks and months and years?

    And despite you being polite to them they are rude to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Ok, but if it happens again and again and again? Over weeks and months and years?

    And despite you being polite to them they are rude to you?
    Chicken or the egg isn't it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    No, it’s to do with police being institutionally racist.
    Do you mean racists join the police, or people who join the police turn into racists?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Chicken or the egg isn't it.
    In that black people expect to be hassled so they kick off, while cops expect them to kick off so they hassle.

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    I have been stopped a few times by the police and so have my white friends. But if you stop a black person, police are racist. Black people and their need for special treatment.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_KING View Post
    I have been stopped a few times by the police and so have my white friends. But if you stop a black person, police are racist. Black people and their need for special treatment.
    Thatís your privilege showing. To people who are privileged and donít know it, any call for equal treatment will feel that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Thatís your privilege showing. To people who are privileged and donít know it, any call for equal treatment will feel that way.
    I am not white mate. Iím Pakistani Asian. And this whole talk of white privilege is nothing but a way for black people to justify their failures in life.
    Last edited by The_KING; 31st March 2021 at 18:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_KING View Post
    I am not white mate. Iím Pakistani Asian. And this whole talk of white privilege is nothing but a way for black people to justify their failures in life.
    Politically you are black. They were marching for you too. You should be grateful to them.
    Last edited by Robert; 31st March 2021 at 22:02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Politically you are black. They were marching for you too. You should be grateful to them.
    No, I donít need them to march for me. I have lived in the UK for over 15 years and I havenít once felt that my colour has held me back. Any failures that I have faced in my life is due to me not working hard enough, not because I am not white. I am not one for playing the race and victim card, which seems to be the speciality of most black people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Why don't the BLM cult talk when many blacks are killed in african countries. Just last month many died in explosions. Or does black lives matter only when its blacks living in white nations and they get killed by whites?
    To be blunt, you have called it correctly. Black lives matter in western countries as much for white people as for blacks. We westerners hold ourselves to a higher standard after centuries of enlightenment, inshallah it won't be too long before African countries have caught up as well.


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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_KING View Post
    No, I donít need them to march for me. I have lived in the UK for over 15 years and I havenít once felt that my colour has held me back. Any failures that I have faced in my life is due to me not working hard enough, not because I am not white. I am not one for playing the race and victim card, which seems to be the speciality of most black people.
    A lot of people confuse the privileges of being wealthy with being white.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    No. But I am much less likely than a black man to be stop-searched. They less likely to be arrested, less likely to have forced applied and so on.

    This is one example of my white privilege.
    black or african americans despite being a racial minority, commit more murders than the whites. Their crime rates in relation to their population size is way worse than any other race.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishtiaq_ctg View Post
    black or african americans despite being a racial minority, commit more murders than the whites. Their crime rates in relation to their population size is way worse than any other race.
    And whites commit far more corporate crime than blacks. But as they can afford better lawyers, they escape jail or serve shorter sentences if convicted. So their families stay together and the next generation gets better housing and schooling and better outcomes.

    I canít believe that I, as a white man, have to explain structural racism to people of colour. You should be explaining it to me!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    A lot of people confuse the privileges of being wealthy with being white.
    Which tends to go together due to centuries of structural racism.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_KING View Post
    No, I donít need them to march for me. I have lived in the UK for over 15 years and I havenít once felt that my colour has held me back. Any failures that I have faced in my life is due to me not working hard enough, not because I am not white. I am not one for playing the race and victim card, which seems to be the speciality of most black people.
    Thatís just you. I have heard British Asian mothers tell their kids they have to work twice as hard as their white colleagues in order to keep up.

    Have a look at how many South Asians Muslims are in London jails. The reasons for this is structural racism. So BLM are standing up for you whether you recognise it or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    And whites commit far more corporate crime than blacks. But as they can afford better lawyers, they escape jail or serve shorter sentences if convicted. So their families stay together and the next generation gets better housing and schooling and better outcomes.

    I can’t believe that I, as a white man, have to explain structural racism to people of colour. You should be explaining it to me!
    A lot of posters here are immigrants, they aren't going to look too deeply into concepts like structural racism. Their mindset will be look at the stats, black people commit more crime. Look at their rap music, they sing about violence. They might not have met black people in real life either so get their views from news and tv shows.


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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    And whites commit far more corporate crime than blacks. But as they can afford better lawyers, they escape jail or serve shorter sentences if convicted. So their families stay together and the next generation gets better housing and schooling and better outcomes.

    I can’t believe that I, as a white man, have to explain structural racism to people of colour. You should be explaining it to me!
    White people commit more corporate crimes because they are white? Black people commit more savage crimes because they are black? This is the problem with people who see everything in terms of race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    And whites commit far more corporate crime than blacks. But as they can afford better lawyers, they escape jail or serve shorter sentences if convicted. So their families stay together and the next generation gets better housing and schooling and better outcomes.

    I canít believe that I, as a white man, have to explain structural racism to people of colour. You should be explaining it to me!
    You're confusing yourself. Criminals should remain behind the bars irrespective of their background. It's a fact that black people are more into crimes statistically. Is charging a criminal now considered racism? Does the western system force them to commit crimes? Barack Obama was black & it didn't stopped him from being the potus. Kamala harris, VP & soon to be potus is also a person of color.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    White people commit more corporate crimes because they are white? Black people commit more savage crimes because they are black? This is the problem with people who see everything in terms of race.
    True. Somehow charging a criminal is considered racist in the current liberal world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    And whites commit far more corporate crime than blacks. But as they can afford better lawyers, they escape jail or serve shorter sentences if convicted. So their families stay together and the next generation gets better housing and schooling and better outcomes.

    I canít believe that I, as a white man, have to explain structural racism to people of colour. You should be explaining it to me!
    A white man can escape a sentence because they have access to better lawyers?

    Which demographic has the highest prison population in the UK and USA?

    We cannot explain structural racism to you, simply because you believe all whites are racists and all blacks are innocent.
    Last edited by Technics 1210; 2nd April 2021 at 01:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Which tends to go together due to centuries of structural racism.
    Thats if you disregard all the white people that don't have money, its a very small minority of whites that are able to use privilege. There is also a small minority of blacks that have privilege of money and don't tell me that in other countries money can't get you benefits that the poor don't.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    A white man can escape a sentence because they have access to better lawyers?

    Which demographic has the highest prison population in the UK and USA?

    We cannot explain structural racism to you, simply because you believe all whites are racists and all blacks are innocent.
    Money will buy you the best (read able to rort the system) lawyer and the lawyer will take your money regardless of your color.

    Basketball has an abnormal amount of black players, is that due to structural racism.

    I dont doubt for one minute that if your race is the dominant race in your country you are going to prosper better than the average but thats just how the world is in every country.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishtiaq_ctg View Post
    You're confusing yourself. Criminals should remain behind the bars irrespective of their background. It's a fact that black people are more into crimes statistically. Is charging a criminal now considered racism? Does the western system force them to commit crimes? Barack Obama was black & it didn't stopped him from being the potus. Kamala harris, VP & soon to be potus is also a person of color.
    Iím confusing you, because you donít understand the concept of structural racism.

    Blacks make up 15% of the US population so that means one in six Presidents should have been black by now, by the law of averages. But only one in 46 had been, and his mother was white. Blacks were not even allowed to vote for 80% of USA history, much less stand for office. They faced discriminatory laws for most of US history. Their deep structural disadvantages in terms of housing, education and health care cannot be fixed in one generation. Once in the 1920s when they built up a prosperous town, it was destroyed by jealous whites in a riot.

    Itís not simply a question of one race committing more crimes. Itís about an institutionally racist justice system which builds in negative outcomes for people of colour at all stages. I suggest you watch the Netflix documentary called 13th which addresses these issues in depth.

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    Yet structural racism falls apart in the Sports sphere for example, where blacks out number whites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Money will buy you the best (read able to rort the system) lawyer and the lawyer will take your money regardless of your color.

    Basketball has an abnormal amount of black players, is that due to structural racism.

    I dont doubt for one minute that if your race is the dominant race in your country you are going to prosper better than the average but thats just how the world is in every country.
    USA is the best place for blacks to live and prosper. Blacks are successful in Music, Media, Arts, Sports, Law, and now entering politics - truly a land of opportunity for blacks.

    Frankly if USA is still the greatest racist nation even after 100s years of slave history, then BLM is just a blip that has sent back the black community another generation.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Iím confusing you, because you donít understand the concept of structural racism.

    Blacks make up 15% of the US population so that means one in six Presidents should have been black by now, by the law of averages. But only one in 46 had been, and his mother was white. Blacks were not even allowed to vote for 80% of USA history, much less stand for office. They faced discriminatory laws for most of US history. Their deep structural disadvantages in terms of housing, education and health care cannot be fixed in one generation. Once in the 1920s when they built up a prosperous town, it was destroyed by jealous whites in a riot.

    Itís not simply a question of one race committing more crimes. Itís about an institutionally racist justice system which builds in negative outcomes for people of colour at all stages. I suggest you watch the Netflix documentary called 13th which addresses these issues in depth.
    Not a single woman was one of the 46 Presidents. Fair to say misogyny is a bigger problem than racism in USA? After all, women were also denied the right to vote in USA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Iím confusing you, because you donít understand the concept of structural racism.

    Blacks make up 15% of the US population so that means one in six Presidents should have been black by now, by the law of averages. But only one in 46 had been, and his mother was white. Blacks were not even allowed to vote for 80% of USA history, much less stand for office. They faced discriminatory laws for most of US history. Their deep structural disadvantages in terms of housing, education and health care cannot be fixed in one generation. Once in the 1920s when they built up a prosperous town, it was destroyed by jealous whites in a riot.

    Itís not simply a question of one race committing more crimes. Itís about an institutionally racist justice system which builds in negative outcomes for people of colour at all stages. I suggest you watch the Netflix documentary called 13th which addresses these issues in depth.
    Thatís not how it works in real life. Typically itís the majority that decides what they want. India has 15%+ Muslim population which if we go by law of averages means every 7th PM of India must be a Muslim. Yet afaik India hasnít had one.

    Australia has ~50% Christian population. Does that mean from here on every second person elected as their PM must not be a Christian?

    If you strictly go by numbers and use this logic of law of averages, there is probably no country that is not discriminatory.

    And letís not judge countries by what they did in the past. The likes of UK, Germany, and Japan would never come out looking good.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Thatís not how it works in real life. Typically itís the majority that decides what they want. India has 15%+ Muslim population which if we go by law of averages means every 7th PM of India must be a Muslim. Yet afaik India hasnít had one.

    Australia has ~50% Christian population. Does that mean from here on every second person elected as their PM must not be a Christian?

    If you strictly go by numbers and use this logic of law of averages, there is probably no country that is not discriminatory.

    And letís not judge countries by what they did in the past. The likes of UK, Germany, and Japan would never come out looking good.
    Robert has misused the law of averages, yes if people just vote randomly without taking anything in to consideration the the law of averages would apply but thats not how it works, the law of averages will also tell you that if there is only 15% black voters then getting a black President would not be likely to occur until they reach a sizable % of around 40%. The law of averages will tell you if whites have 60-70% of voters then you can almost be guaranteed of always having a white President.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Robert has misused the law of averages, yes if people just vote randomly without taking anything in to consideration the the law of averages would apply but thats not how it works, the law of averages will also tell you that if there is only 15% black voters then getting a black President would not be likely to occur until they reach a sizable % of around 40%. The law of averages will tell you if whites have 60-70% of voters then you can almost be guaranteed of always having a white President.
    US had a black president because of the whites. Whites have done more for equality than any other race, yet they are the favourite punching bags of the self declared intellectuals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    US had a black president because of the whites. Whites have done more for equality than any other race, yet they are the favourite punching bags of the self declared intellectuals.
    Also there any many blacks that have prospered in America and not due to the whites but due to their own ambitions and determination. One thing about America is nothing will hold you down unless you allow it to.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Not a single woman was one of the 46 Presidents. Fair to say misogyny is a bigger problem than racism in USA? After all, women were also denied the right to vote in USA.
    According to robert there is structural misogyny in the US, and most males are misogynist. But he won't be able to explain this: Black females are 4 times more likely to be killed by their boyfriends than white females (US Department of Justice) Why don't Black female lives matter?

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Also there any many blacks that have prospered in America and not due to the whites but due to their own ambitions and determination. One thing about America is nothing will hold you down unless you allow it to.
    I disagree. The blacks have done well due to their own hard work, but the level playing field was provided by the whites. Otherwise no other country, even where blacks are majority, has seen as many successful blacks as the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Iím confusing you, because you donít understand the concept of structural racism.

    Blacks make up 15% of the US population so that means one in six Presidents should have been black by now, by the law of averages. But only one in 46 had been, and his mother was white. Blacks were not even allowed to vote for 80% of USA history, much less stand for office. They faced discriminatory laws for most of US history. Their deep structural disadvantages in terms of housing, education and health care cannot be fixed in one generation. Once in the 1920s when they built up a prosperous town, it was destroyed by jealous whites in a riot.

    Itís not simply a question of one race committing more crimes. Itís about an institutionally racist justice system which builds in negative outcomes for people of colour at all stages. I suggest you watch the Netflix documentary called 13th which addresses these issues in depth.
    Some of it what you have said is true. But even then US and West overall is a better society because the majority (in this case the whites) are ready to admit their past mistakes and institutional discrimination that exists and ready to mend it. Agreed, it is not perfect and the change is slow and sometimes backwards, but atleast there is an active attempt by and large by the western society . While the Blacks and Asians can rightly point to racism in US or UK, the fact is they conveniently practice the same discrimination in their native countries be it tribal in case of Africa, caste in case of India or religious in case of ME. The only reason why everybody calls West racists is because they as a society introspect and acknowledge their fault lines while others don't . Also I don't think this narrative that blacks were exploited for centuries in the context of criminal acts is healthy. In eyes of law everybody should be treated same and every act should be treated with equal sincerity regardless of the caste, creed or colour of the victims and perpetrators.

    It still does not justify century long racism against blacks or any other community in US or UK. But that historical context should also not be presented as an argument to justify criminal acts performed by individuals within a community.
    Last edited by RajBan; 2nd April 2021 at 12:13.

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    Agree with some of the above posts. Just because the UK ruled over India for several years and openly discriminated against its people doesnít mean an alleged criminal of Indian origin should be treated differently than others in the UK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    That’s not how it works in real life. Typically it’s the majority that decides what they want. India has 15%+ Muslim population which if we go by law of averages means every 7th PM of India must be a Muslim. Yet afaik India hasn’t had one.

    Australia has ~50% Christian population. Does that mean from here on every second person elected as their PM must not be a Christian?

    If you strictly go by numbers and use this logic of law of averages, there is probably no country that is not discriminatory.

    And let’s not judge countries by what they did in the past. The likes of UK, Germany, and Japan would never come out looking good.
    I countered the fallacious point that blacks have an equal go in the US because one mixed-race guy has been President, when blacks are not properly represented at any level in politics, the judiciary, medicine and academia, due to structural racism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RajBan View Post
    Some of it what you have said is true. But even then US and West overall is a better society because the majority (in this case the whites) are ready to admit their past mistakes and institutional discrimination that exists and ready to mend it. Agreed, it is not perfect and the change is slow and sometimes backwards, but atleast there is an active attempt by and large by the western society . While the Blacks and Asians can rightly point to racism in US or UK, the fact is they conveniently practice the same discrimination in their native countries be it tribal in case of Africa, caste in case of India or religious in case of ME. The only reason why everybody calls West racists is because they as a society introspect and acknowledge their fault lines while others don't . Also I don't think this narrative that blacks were exploited for centuries in the context of criminal acts is healthy. In eyes of law everybody should be treated same and every act should be treated with equal sincerity regardless of the caste, creed or colour of the victims and perpetrators.

    It still does not justify century long racism against blacks or any other community in US or UK. But that historical context should also not be presented as an argument to justify criminal acts performed by individuals within a community.
    Nobody is justifying criminal acts. But when certain groups such as blacks an South Asian Muslims are massively disproportionally represented in London jails, something structural must be done to counter the inequality in provision of justice to these groups.

    To put it bluntly - if you and I commit the same crime in the UK, you are more likely to go to jail, you will probably be given a longer sentence than me, and you are more likely than me to have your tariff extended once inside.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Yet structural racism falls apart in the Sports sphere for example, where blacks out number whites.
    This is the single worst argument that I see


    Hard to get a handle on this double edged sword

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post

    To put it bluntly - if you and I commit the same crime in the UK, you are more likely to go to jail, you will probably be given a longer sentence than me, and you are more likely than me to have your tariff extended once inside.
    Do you have the data to show that a white murderer is less likely to go to jail compared to a black murderer?

    Also US data shows that black females are 4 times more likely to be killed by their partners compared to white females. What can be the reason? Is it the race?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Nobody is justifying criminal acts. But when certain groups such as blacks an South Asian Muslims are massively disproportionally represented in London jails, something structural must be done to counter the inequality in provision of justice to these groups.

    To put it bluntly - if you and I commit the same crime in the UK, you are more likely to go to jail, you will probably be given a longer sentence than me, and you are more likely than me to have your tariff extended once inside.
    Agree on that point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RajBan View Post
    Agree on that point.
    So jails should have a quota system, and if it quota of a certain race is full, they should deny entry for more criminals from that race? In no circumstances it should cross the percentage of their population. Also 50% quota in jails reserved for women of all races?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Yet structural racism falls apart in the Sports sphere for example, where blacks out number whites.
    Not in cricket and rugby in the UK. There were a few black lads - sons of immigrants - who played for England in the eighties and nineties but now others struggle to get on because only posh schools with white and better-off desi kids play cricket and rugby. Structural racism. Archer was brought in from Barbados.

    The Lancy and Yorky leagues teem with brilliant desi batters and quicks and spinners but they don’t go on to play for Counties. Institutional racism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Thats if you disregard all the white people that don't have money, its a very small minority of whites that are able to use privilege. There is also a small minority of blacks that have privilege of money and don't tell me that in other countries money can't get you benefits that the poor don't.
    Even white people without money have privilege. You will often see Indian posters putting up stats to show themselves performing comparably better than Muslims or Pakistanis income wise, but they never do this to compare favourably against low income whites. This is because they realise that the white status is still higher in other factors and so they will defer and concentrate on measuring favourably against Muslims instead.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Not in cricket and rugby in the UK. There were a few black lads - sons of immigrants - who played for England in the eighties and nineties but now others struggle to get on because only posh schools with white and better-off desi kids play cricket and rugby. Structural racism. Archer was brought in from Barbados.

    The Lancy and Yorky leagues teem with brilliant desi batters and quicks and spinners but they don’t go on to play for Counties. Institutional racism.
    I was refering to USA.

    The point is just because there haven't been 1 in 6 black presidents, doesn't mean there's structural racism elsewhere.

    Still in the UK, more blacks represent their country in sport than they did 30 years ago. More blacks in the Olympics, Football, Cricket etc.

    Lets not forget music industry either.

    You cannot ignore the areas where Blacks have excelled and then claim structural/institutional racisim is widespread in the USA/UK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    So jails should have a quota system, and if it quota of a certain race is full, they should deny entry for more criminals from that race? In no circumstances it should cross the percentage of their population. Also 50% quota in jails reserved for women of all races?
    No , not that. But his second paragraph that its possible that blacks might have a slightly higher percentage of conviction rate compared to other demographics for the same crime in UK. No point in denying the biases that gets inherited , however the western civil society is still far more rational in treating their population. My point still stands though that blacks are victims but they are not exclusive and if a crime gets committed it is expected that it is judged rationally regardless of historical issues.

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    Blacks commit more knife crime in London. It is not racist in anyway to stop and search a demographic based on hard statistics.

    BLM supporters in the UK will never address this point. They will claim black societies have been hard hit through racism etc, but this is sheer nonsense given blacks are very successful too.

    The reality is that these days blacks are causing more harm to their own race.

    it should be duly noted - 'I can't breathe' isn't a unique cry. Blacks and whites whom have been victims of police brutality in the USA have said the same thing.

    The media just want the sheep to care for one petty criminal because the world was bored stuck in lockdown.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.u...amp/3137373001

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Not in cricket and rugby in the UK. There were a few black lads - sons of immigrants - who played for England in the eighties and nineties but now others struggle to get on because only posh schools with white and better-off desi kids play cricket and rugby. Structural racism. Archer was brought in from Barbados.

    The Lancy and Yorky leagues teem with brilliant desi batters and quicks and spinners but they don’t go on to play for Counties. Institutional racism.
    Some of it could be down to interest or affinity to a particular sport within a community and not necessarily racism. That Asians are underrepresented in mainstream football is probably because they are more inclined to cricket when compared to football . That there are more number of blacks in football is probably because of higher participation rate and hopefully not because of some bias.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by RajBan View Post
    No , not that. But his second paragraph that its possible that blacks might have a slightly higher percentage of conviction rate compared to other demographics for the same crime in UK. No point in denying the biases that gets inherited , however the western civil society is still far more rational in treating their population. My point still stands though that blacks are victims but they are not exclusive and if a crime gets committed it is expected that it is judged rationally regardless of historical issues.
    Where is the data to show that a white murderer is less likely than a black murderer to be jailed. Why are males disproportionately represented in jails? This is structural misandry. But because there is no netflix "documentary" on this structural misandry in the society, Uncle Robert will not say anything about it.

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    @Robert, asking again. Why in US, the black females are 4 times more likely to be killed by their partners compared to white females? What is the reason behind this?

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    Whites have done more for Blacks than blacks have.

    Forget USA and UK, look at Africa. Not a single BLM supporter says a thing about the injustices in Africa.

    In 1980s, Ethiopia was suffering from famine. Millions of children were dying but not a single black person in the West stood up. It took a white man; Bob Geldof to do something about it.

    If Blacks do not respect their own race, they have no right to demand respect from other races.

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