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  1. #1
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    Pakistan and India agree to strictly observe a ceasefire at Kashmir border

    Pakistan and India’s militaries have agreed to strictly observe a ceasefire at the de facto border between the two countries in the disputed region of Kashmir, and other agreements, according to a Pakistani military statement – a rare thaw in relations between the South Asian neighbours.

    The director-general’s of military operations (DGMO) of the Indian and Pakistani military held discussions over a hotline between their offices on Thursday morning, a Pakistani military statement said.

    “Both sides agreed for strict observance of all agreements, understandings and cease firing along the [Line of Control] and all other sectors, with effect from midnight [on Friday],” said the statement.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2...mpression=true
    Last edited by MenInG; 26th February 2021 at 11:55.


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  2. #2
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    Give them twenty four hours before one side claims the other side broke the ceasefire , it was not us, we are just giving a befitting response.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majid Khan View Post
    Give them twenty four hours before one side claims the other side broke the ceasefire , it was not us, we are just giving a befitting response.
    Going by history, Pakistan lacks any trust to claim otherwise.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Going by history, Pakistan lacks any trust to claim otherwise.
    Oh yes! Innoncent Indians 😃

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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    Oh yes! Innoncent Indians 😃
    Pakistan has initiated war against India time after time after independence. Even after Lahore yatra, which could have been dawn of a new era, what happened? Not even 6 months and Kargil happened.

    When you destroy trust this way, no wonder the concerned party loses any credibility.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Pakistan has initiated war against India time after time after independence. Even after Lahore yatra, which could have been dawn of a new era, what happened? Not even 6 months and Kargil happened.

    When you destroy trust this way, no wonder the concerned party loses any credibility.
    What happen when you did a "surgical strike"? You infringed international borders to do the supposedly "surgical strike".

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    What happen when you did a "surgical strike"? You infringed international borders to do the supposedly "surgical strike".
    Asking questions instead of answering. This is not how I put forward argument.

    I won't waste your time nor mine. You can continue with others.

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    If it was so easy to announce a ceasefire by a mere phone call by the DGMO’s ,why didn’t they do it earlier? Many lives would have saved and life would be much better for the common people living in the border.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Pakistan has initiated war against India time after time after independence. Even after Lahore yatra, which could have been dawn of a new era, what happened? Not even 6 months and Kargil happened.

    When you destroy trust this way, no wonder the concerned party loses any credibility.
    Both countries are complicit in breaking agreements and ceasefires. Or basically doing things to harm the other country.

    One difference I find is that India has been very successful at playing the victim whereas Pakistan doesn't play victim.

    Another difference I find is that there is no greater unifier in Indian than Pakistan. It is like Russia for Americans during the cold war. Having a boogeyman helps unite the country by giving them a common enemy.

    Overall, I find Pakistanis don't necessarily view India as a mortal enemy. The only contention Pakistan has is regarding rights over Kashmir and the treatment of their people.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyG View Post
    Both countries are complicit in breaking agreements and ceasefires. Or basically doing things to harm the other country.

    One difference I find is that India has been very successful at playing the victim whereas Pakistan doesn't play victim.

    Another difference I find is that there is no greater unifier in Indian than Pakistan. It is like Russia for Americans during the cold war. Having a boogeyman helps unite the country by giving them a common enemy.

    Overall, I find Pakistanis don't necessarily view India as a mortal enemy. The only contention Pakistan has is regarding rights over Kashmir and the treatment of their people.
    You are partially correct. Post 2008 Pakistan has earned a rather bad image in the Indian narrative. I know some of it is perspective, some of it is pure propaganda, but it is true that Pakistan did not help herself either and has fair share in making it difficult for everybody. Musharaf was particularly master tactician in playing a duplicitous role. The problem is they have a government in India now who are ready to play the game in their mode and that has made things very toxic. A guy like Vajpayee would be ready to be aggressive if needed but not break the protocols beyond a limit even if their counterpart entity in Pakistan did the same and provoked them. Modi and Shah on the other hand think and act similar to the Pakistani establishment in terms of the bilateral relationship between the two nations. No wonder you see all the drama 365 days a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Going by history, Pakistan lacks any trust to claim otherwise.
    Wth is this
    Too many anti-pak videos but didn't bother looking for what India did (basically echo chamber)
    Like this is a tone deaf comment you are either ignorant about the whole situation (by just looking at "one" side of the story and not analyzing others presepective) or extremely biased to make a comment like that

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    Sad to see that even in a thread about peace the usual bigots are out spreading their bile.

    Indian Soldiers are as equally dear to their mothers as Pakistani soldiers are to theirs. Anything that contributes to the minimisng of bloodshed and loss of life is a step in the right direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    Wth is this
    Too many anti-pak videos but didn't bother looking for what India did (basically echo chamber)
    Like this is a tone deaf comment you are either ignorant about the whole situation (by just looking at "one" side of the story and not analyzing others presepective) or extremely biased to make a comment like that
    after 1947 through out the last century, tell me how India has taken a role to disrupt the peace?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    Sad to see that even in a thread about peace the usual bigots are out spreading their bile.

    Indian Soldiers are as equally dear to their mothers as Pakistani soldiers are to theirs. Anything that contributes to the minimisng of bloodshed and loss of life is a step in the right direction.
    If the soldiers cared about their mothers enough, they wouldn't be signing up for this job which glories death, and gives you a flag to wrap your dead body after you are killed brutally.

  15. #15
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    New Delhi: India’s diplomatic commitments along the Line of Control with Pakistan and the Line of Actual Control with China are not subject to any kind of comprise on the country’s national security and territorial sovereignty, the Ministry of External Affairs expressed on Thursday.

    Speaking with reference to the new ceasefire agreement with Pakistan, MEA Spokesperson Anurag Srivastava said that India desires “normal” relationship with Pakistan but New Delhi’s stand on several key issues will continue to remain unchanged.

    “India desires normal neighbourly relations with Pakistan. However, on key issues, our position remains unchanged,” the MEA spokesperson said on the India-Pakistan DGMO-level talks on ceasefire.

    India and Pakistan have agreed to strictly observe all agreements pertaining to ceasefire along the LoC effective from Wednesday midnight. The decision was taken during a meeting between the Director Generals of Military Operations (DGMOs) of both countries on the intervening night of February 24/25.

    Meanwhile, the disengagement process near eastern Ladakh has not come at the expense of India’s territory, the MEA said, adding that redeployment of forces from both sides should not be misinterpreted at any cost.

    “India hasn’t conceded any territory and prevented unilateral change in the status quo. The mutual redeployment should not be misinterpreted and there is absolutely no change with respect to our position on the Line of Actual Control,” Srivastava said.


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    If the soldiers cared about their mothers enough, they wouldn't be signing up for this job which glories death, and gives you a flag to wrap your dead body after you are killed brutally.
    The ceasefire will prevent that from occurring. Their mothers will be happy that their sons are serving the nation and they can be heroes without risk.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    Wth is this
    Too many anti-pak videos but didn't bother looking for what India did (basically echo chamber)
    Like this is a tone deaf comment you are either ignorant about the whole situation (by just looking at "one" side of the story and not analyzing others presepective) or extremely biased to make a comment like that
    1949 ceasefire agreement, violated in 1965 by OP Gibraltar.

    1972 Shimla Agreement, violated by supporting, financing and training a armed secessionist terrorist movement in Kashmir from late 80s.

    1999 Lahore Declaration: Violated by the Kargil incursions.

    Pray tell me, who violated these agreements?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    The ceasefire will prevent that from occurring. Their mothers will be happy that their sons are serving the nation and they can be heroes without risk.
    Maybe when the entire world becomes woke, then soldiers will not have risk of being killed, but at present, the soldiers have shown they care for other things more than their mothers. Otherwise they wouldn't sign up for this job.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Maybe when the entire world becomes woke, then soldiers will not have risk of being killed, but at present, the soldiers have shown they care for other things more than their mothers. Otherwise they wouldn't sign up for this job.
    Lets hope the Indians stick to it. They normally get trigger happy if they havent shelled or shot a civilian after a few days unless its their religous holidays.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    after 1947 through out the last century, tell me how India has taken a role to disrupt the peace?
    Supporting Bangladesh nationalists in Pakistan from mid 1960s
    Taking hills in Pakistani sides in 1980s which later become a catalyst for 1990s war
    2000s attacks on Pres Pakistan according to ISI done by indian or at the very least organized by indian agencies

    and plenty more, this game is very easy to play but indian PR is good that's why indians are led to believe only they can play that game


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    Supporting Bangladesh nationalists in Pakistan from mid 1960s
    Taking hills in Pakistani sides in 1980s which later become a catalyst for 1990s war
    2000s attacks on Pres Pakistan according to ISI done by indian or at the very least organized by indian agencies

    and plenty more, this game is very easy to play but indian PR is good that's why indians are led to believe only they can play that game
    Btw taliban is a Confederacy of terror groups and they shore up thier recruitiment by claiming attacks so tham admitting random attacks is directly related to thier goals

    No credible authority just go by what Taliban, ISIS claim cause they have an active intrest involved in claiming attacks that they have nothing to do with

  22. #22
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    Interesting development. I really didn't think BJP would be open to ceasefire given their narrative to the blood hungry populace.

    Surprised me. But hopefully good for the future and less "befitting responses" type headlines where only poor innocent folk are dying as collateral.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    after 1947 through out the last century, tell me how India has taken a role to disrupt the peace?
    From the Pakistani perspective India taking any portion of Jammu and Kashmir disrupted the peace. They feel cheated during partition. I'm not saying its right, but that's how people in Pakistan feel on this issue.

    Indians can point to the Instrument of Ascension but Pakistanis would point to Junagadh.


    Anyway with that said a lot of Pakistanis do blame Musharraf for Kargil, and saw that as a good faith attempt by Nawaz Sharif and Vajapayee to bring peace. Had Kargil not happened i think a creative solution could have been found to the dispute that did not involve changing of borders. Like in Europe their is South Tyrol, Aaland island, etc.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    From the Pakistani perspective India taking any portion of Jammu and Kashmir disrupted the peace. They feel cheated during partition. I'm not saying its right, but that's how people in Pakistan feel on this issue.

    Indians can point to the Instrument of Ascension but Pakistanis would point to Junagadh.
    Junagarh happened before kashmir. So indians can point to pakistan accepting the accession of junagarh as betrayal.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Junagarh happened before kashmir. So indians can point to pakistan accepting the accession of junagarh as betrayal.
    Sure, and then Pakistanis would say India refused to accept that, invaded the state and held a referendum.

    As it stands India has 100% of Junagadh. Pakistan only has 1/3 of Jammu Kashmir. You can make a case though, that having a 1/3 of Jammu Kashmir is better than 100% of Junagadh.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    Sure, and then Pakistanis would say India refused to accept that, invaded the state and held a referendum.

    As it stands India has 100% of Junagadh. Pakistan only has 1/3 of Jammu Kashmir. You can make a case though, that having a 1/3 of Jammu Kashmir is better than 100% of Junagadh.
    And then indians will say that pakistan accepting junagarh flew in the face of two nation theory, as it had no business taking a hindu majority area. While india, being a secular country, can take both junagarh and kashmir. Because when you are secular, you can have your cake and eat it too.

  27. #27
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    Not sure why Pakistan is showing mercy?

    We should’ve teamed up with China and had them intensify the Chinese attack on the Ladakh border, and supported the farmer protest by turning it into a part of Khalistan movement, and continued attacking them on Kashmir border.

    I hope this is the ISI’s actual plan and with Chinese support, they will relaunch it with vengeance.

    And why do I opine this?

    Modi and his fascist regime of religious fanatics do not want peace inside India or outside its borders. It has been evident for quite a while now - so let’s give it to them. Nice and hard!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    Not sure why Pakistan is showing mercy?

    We should’ve teamed up with China and had them intensify the Chinese attack on the Ladakh border, and supported the farmer protest by turning it into a part of Khalistan movement, and continued attacking them on Kashmir border.

    I hope this is the ISI’s actual plan and with Chinese support, they will relaunch it with vengeance.

    And why do I opine this?

    Modi and his fascist regime of religious fanatics do not want peace inside India or outside its borders. It has been evident for quite a while now - so let’s give it to them. Nice and hard!
    Yeah China would never do that...
    (Wars due to Kashmir led to us losing decades of growth that we could have achieved leading to a more prosperous Pakistan but the obsession got the better of us)

    The sooner we forget Kashmir the better

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    Yeah China would never do that...
    (Wars due to Kashmir led to us losing decades of growth that we could have achieved leading to a more prosperous Pakistan but the obsession got the better of us)

    The sooner we forget Kashmir the better
    Prosperity was slowed down not because of Kashmir and war with India. C’mon, are you seriously this naive?

    It’s the decades worth of looting the national wealth by the corrupt leadership. Billions upon Billions of dollars looted. That’s what slowed down the prosperity.

    But that’s not even the point.
    Modi and his fascists friends will continue to work 24/7 to destabilize Pakistan even if Kashmir is off the table.
    Their entire politics is based on deeply ingrained hate against Muslims and fear mongering of “Hindu Khatray mein hai”.
    You didn’t pick this up yet?

    A snake can’t be your friend. By its very nature, it will bite you no matter how nice you become with it. This current fascist regime in India is exactly that, IMO.

    And my earlier post had nothing to do with “freedom of Kashmir” to begin with. Give it another read.

    In this day n age, and with this kind of terrorist regime of religious fanatics in power in India, the peace talks and raising white flags don’t work to ward off the snakes.

    The best way to peace is deterrence and with an iron fist.

    As the old saying goes:
    “If you want peace then always be prepared for war.”

    You take a snooze and this snake will bite you.

    So unless there is a regime change in India, we must always stay on the high alert.
    Our ISI must continue to work towards the ouster of this fascist regime in India to bring greater peace in the entire region.IKO

  30. #30
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    n its first statement on occupied Kashmir, the Biden administration has urged India and Pakistan to hold direct talks on the issue, and welcomed an agreement between the two neighbours to de-escalate tensions along the Line of Control (LoC).

    Both India and Pakistan announced on Thursday that their senior military commanders have agreed to strictly observe all agreements, understandings and ceasefire along the LoC and other sectors, with effect from midnight on Wednesday.

    In Washington, US State Department spokesman Ned Price mentioned this agreement in his opening statement at the Thursday afternoon news briefing.

    “We welcome the joint statement between India and Pakistan that the two countries have agreed to maintain strict observance of a ceasefire along the LoC starting immediately," he said.


    “We encourage continued efforts to improve communication between the two sides and to reduce tensions and violence along the LoC,” he added.

    His statement prompted journalists to ask: “To what extent, if any, did the United States play a role in helping broker this new ceasefire agreement?”

    Media representatives also recalled that when US President Joe Biden was the vice president in the Obama administration, he had a very warm relationship with Pakistan and saw Islamabad as a vital partner in the war in Afghanistan.

    The journalists wanted to know how Biden’s previous closeness to Pakistan would impact his policy towards the country now when he was the president.

    They also wanted to know how this would interplay with his relationship with India.

    “When it comes to the US role, we continue to support direct dialogue between India and Pakistan on Kashmir and other issues of concern,” said the State Department spokesman while responding to these queries.

    “And […] we certainly welcome the arrangement that was announced” in the region, he added.

    Price said that he and other officials of the Biden administration have been urging the two neighboring countries to reduce their tensions since Jan 20, when Biden took oath as the new US president.

    “You’ve heard me say from this podium and others from this administration say that we had called on the parties to reduce tensions along the LoC by returning to that 2003 ceasefire agreement,” he said.

    “We have been very clear that we condemn the terrorists who seek to infiltrate across the LoC.”

    Asked how this effort to “stay neutral” between India and Pakistan would affect the Biden administration’s policies towards Islamabad, Price said: “Pakistan is an important partner with whom we share many interests. We, as I said, have been clear in terms of this issue.”

    The US official also referred to Pakistan’s role in the Afghan peace talks, as Washington expects Islamabad to stay engaged with the Taliban for restoring peace to the war-ravaged country.

    Read: Stable Afghanistan in interest of Pakistan, says FM Qureshi

    “So clearly, we will be paying close attention, and we urge the Pakistanis to play a constructive role in all of these areas of mutual interest, including in Afghanistan, including with Kashmir, including with our other shared interests,” he said.

    Pakistan played a key role in arranging a peace deal between the Taliban and the Trump administration, signed in Doha in February last year.

    The Biden administration has said that it respects the deal but needs more time to study its features.

    This has been interpreted as indicating that Biden may not fulfill the Trump administration’s pledge to withdraw all US troops from Afghanistan by May 1.

    This could further complicate Pakistan’s role as a mediator because the Taliban want all foreign troops to leave as agreed. Any delay in the withdrawal could further harden their attitude towards the Kabul government.

    Last week, the United Nations and the United States both condemned the Taliban for increasing their attacks on Afghan government targets, making it clear that this level of violence was unacceptable to the international community.

    After a virtual meeting, the US-led Nato alliance also sent a similar message to Taliban leaders who continue to demand a complete withdrawal by May 1.

    Underling Pakistan’s role in this complex process, the State Department spokesman said: “Obviously, Pakistan has an important role to play when it comes to Afghanistan and what takes place across its other border.”

    UN Charter outlaws use of force, Pakistan reminds UNSC
    Meanwhile, a statement Pakistan made at an informal UN forum indicated that Islamabad had concerns about a major Indian aggression along the LoC before their military commanders reached an understanding to reduce tensions.

    The statement caused political observers in Washington to speculate that the US and other major players were aware of and might have played a role in reducing tensions between South Asia’s two nuclear-armed neighbors.

    Pakistan used the Arria Formula, an informal arrangement, to convey the alarming message hours before senior military commanders from both countries agreed to strictly observe all agreements and understandings.

    The Arria formula, named after a former Venezuelan ambassador to the UN, was used in March 1992 to draw the world’s attention to the situation in Bosnia.

    Pakistan’s UN Ambassador Munir Akram began his briefing with a reminder to the UNSC members that the purpose of the UN Charter was to outlaw the resort to war.

    “Unfortunately, today the resort to unauthorised and unilateral use of force is most visible in [...] foreign occupation and intervention; in denial of the right of self-determination; in the coercion of smaller and weaker States,” Ambassador Akram said.

    “Pakistan faces cross border attacks by terrorist groups from the territory of the neighboring state supported by a third state.”

    “Pakistan,” the envoy said, “has respected the territorial sovereignty of its neighboring states but we have the right to self-defence against the state which is sponsoring these terrorist attacks against Pakistan.”

    Ambassador Akram also underlined a disturbing trend of exploiting the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States to justify aggression against others.

    “It is regrettable that after 9/11 the fight against international terrorism has been utilised to justify the unilateral use of force and foreign intervention,” he said.

    “The use of force in self-defence is limited to repelling an armed attack. It does not cover ‘future’ or ‘anticipated’ attacks. The concept of ‘preventive’ or ‘anticipatory’ use of force is contrary to the UN Charter and illegal," he said.

    How was the agreement reached?
    The outcome of the conversation between the directors general military operations of the two countries, held after a long time, was significant, but people were curious about knowing how the two sides reached this point.

    With no convincing explanation coming either from Islamabad or Delhi, diplomatic observers believed that it was a result of some backchannel talks that may have been at work. But who were involved in it?

    Sources say it had been taking place between the intelligence agencies of the two countries with the blessings of the respective military leaderships. Almost everyone agrees that not many people were in the loop on both sides.

    In India it was rumoured that Indian National Security Adviser Ajit Doval was involved in the backchannel dialogue from his side. Some Indian media organisations speculated that Special Assistant to the Prime Minister on National Security Moeed Yusuf was the person on the Pakistani side.

    Yusuf, however, through a tweet denied that he was part of any backchannel talks. He tweeted: “No such talks have taken place between me and Doval.”

    In another tweet, he said the agreement resulted through DGMOs dialogue was “done privately and professionally through the direct channel.”

    In an audio clip that earlier in the day made rounds on social media, Yusuf could be heard saying: “These things happen behind the scenes. A lot of effort goes into it. Do you think this happened without effort and without pressure.”

    Yusuf had in an interview with Karan Thapar in October 2020, which was the first by a Pakistani official with any Indian media since annexation of occupied Kashmir by India in August 2019, said India had sent message expressing desire for talks.

    It should also be recalled that Army Chief Gen Qamar Bajwa had in two statements earlier this month made gesture for resolving tensions. Speaking at the PAF Academy, he said: “It is time to extend hand of peace in all directions.”

    Another significance of the agreement is that the Pakistan government engaged with India despite setting the conditions that it would not do so until and unless India cancelled the annexation of occupied Kashmir and ended the human rights violations there.

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1609507/us...-loc-ceasefire


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  31. #31
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    Very interesting. The penny has finally dropped in Delhi and the US is now actively seeking a way to esnure the eastern border goes quiet.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaayal View Post
    If it was so easy to announce a ceasefire by a mere phone call by the DGMO’s ,why didn’t they do it earlier? Many lives would have saved and life would be much better for the common people living in the border.
    India somehow managed to save lives of common men(hindus/sikhs) by providing them adequate protection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    Prosperity was slowed down not because of Kashmir and war with India. C’mon, are you seriously this naive?

    It’s the decades worth of looting the national wealth by the corrupt leadership. Billions upon Billions of dollars looted. That’s what slowed down the prosperity.

    But that’s not even the point.
    Modi and his fascists friends will continue to work 24/7 to destabilize Pakistan even if Kashmir is off the table.
    Their entire politics is based on deeply ingrained hate against Muslims and fear mongering of “Hindu Khatray mein hai”.
    You didn’t pick this up yet?

    A snake can’t be your friend. By its very nature, it will bite you no matter how nice you become with it. This current fascist regime in India is exactly that, IMO.

    And my earlier post had nothing to do with “freedom of Kashmir” to begin with. Give it another read.

    In this day n age, and with this kind of terrorist regime of religious fanatics in power in India, the peace talks and raising white flags don’t work to ward off the snakes.

    The best way to peace is deterrence and with an iron fist.

    As the old saying goes:
    “If you want peace then always be prepared for war.”

    You take a snooze and this snake will bite you.

    So unless there is a regime change in India, we must always stay on the high alert.
    Our ISI must continue to work towards the ouster of this fascist regime in India to bring greater peace in the entire region.IKO
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    ^
    Pakistan is lucky and unlucky at the same time

    US wanted to invest heavily into Pakistan's economy and propel it into the upper echelon of US allies (similar to Japan, SK, Taiwan not as close as European allies but still close)

    Cause the belief was that to counter USSR you needed an ally in the region with a robust economy so the military ends of things are maintained (something they were also looking at Iran to do and until shahs overthrow they benefitted but Pakistan with its high population was always going to be the center/ main ally in the region)

    You can judge this closeness and interest of US in Pakistan by this important fact
    Pakistan had one of the latest US jets of its time
    so in modern times look at a country with F-35 and just look at thier economy and prestige and you'll know exactly what I am talking about...

    This investment and focus was there till the 1965 war
    after the war US started putting a break in thier relationship cause US didn't want an ally who isn't thier lapdogs and Pakistan wasn't thier lapdogs
    They refused to listen to US and started the war without thier "permission" after that US knew Pakistan wasn't to be trusted and slowly but surely the US influence waned in Pakistan affairs

    The Kashmir affair and wars associated with it propped Pakistan back into poverty and poor economy

    Now a similar oppurtinity awaits Pakistan another future superpower knocking on our doors looking to build economy/military (but they associate some costs with it like being a lapdog of China and agreeing with everything they say and refusing to do anything they even hint at refusing)

    But I am afraid that history might repeat itself cause we haven't fixed our issues in Kashmir, our political system is still not where it should be to keep the country stable, ethnic turmoil, red tape

    So we are looking at another opening to propel the country into the future but we are like PCT just working on talent (IE in Pakistan's case its geography and willingness of superpowers to make it a close ally)

    but increasingly in modern day talent alone won't cut it it requires some introspection, it requires some work, biggest thing modern booming economy requires

    a peaceful, stable country and that can only come with a stable political system and I am afraid there still a lot to be desired on that front...
    This is how we suffered due to those wars...
    No country wants full blown wars so nor China or the US before it

    So no major/superpower country Would agree to come out in support of Pakistan (like turkey with azerbaijan) let alone actually fight with tham, that's the naive assumption

    Pakistan is a small country fighting a large country being prepared by the west to counter China

    We'd be lucky if we can hold our own forget taking Kashmir

    We can continue to buy chinese weapons (cheap) to keep india from getting wrong ideas
    But even than I don't know how long we can continue competing (millitary ally) with india

    This is just going towards the USSR route where we'll continue compete with another country without the economic backing which can lead to terrible consequences

    We have no option in the long run except for compromise...

    It's easy to chant Kashmir,. Kashmir all day long on the internet/living rooms but in reality much more difficult to carry out

  34. #34
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    Very interesting. The penny has finally dropped in Delhi and the US is now actively seeking a way to esnure the eastern border goes quiet.
    It was Pakistan formal and stated position for no dialog unless revocation of 5th August 2019 actions by India. Still, you guys are dragged to DGMO level discussion and arm twisted for this agreement. Now, who has surrendered their position and where has penny dropped finally? Watch your ex Ambassador to India, Abdul Basit's vlog for better understanding.

  36. #36
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    The old philosophy of having borders and divisions doesn't work anymore and the people in India and Pakistan want to live in peace, Nobel laureate Malala Yousafzai said on Sunday, stressing that it is her dream to see the two countries become "good friends".

    She also said that minorities need protection in every country, be it Pakistan or India, adding that the issue is not related to religion but to the "exploitation of power" and must be taken seriously.

    Yousafzai, a Pakistani activist for girls education who miraculously survived a bullet to the head from the militant Taliban in October 2012, said the news of internet shutdown and arrests of activists "protesting peacefully" in India is "worrying" and expressed the hope that the government will make sure that people are heard.

    "It is my dream to see India and Pakistan become true good friends and that we can visit each other's countries. You can continue to watch Pakistani dramas, we can continue to watch Bollywood movies and enjoy cricket matches," the youngest Nobel Peace Prize winner said.

    She was speaking on her book "I Am Malala: The Story of the Girl Who Stood Up for Education and was Shot by the Taliban" on the concluding day of the Jaipur Literature Festival (JLF) which is being held in the virtual mode.

    "You are Indian and I am Pakistani and we are completely fine, then why is this hatred created between us? This old philosophy of borders, divisions and divide and conquer... they just don't work anymore, as humans we all want to live in peace," she said.

    The actual enemy of India and Pakistan is "poverty, discrimination and inequality" and both countries should unite and fight them, not each other, she added.

    Apart from "India-Pakistan friendship", Yousufzai said she also dreams of the day when every girl would get to go to school and have access to quality education.

    The 23-year-old activist also raised her voice for minorities across the world and said they are at "risk" and need to be protected globally by governments and human rights organisations.

    "Minorities are at risk. Minorities' rights are not given to them. Be it Hindus and Christians in Pakistan, Muslims, Dalits and other minorities in India ... Palestinians, Rohingya refugees. It is not religion, it is the exploitation of power, it is just elites vs the poor and minorities.

    "Minorities need protection globally from every country. They need a voice, need protection, and it is a reminder to governments, to human rights organisations to take this very seriously," she noted.

    During the discussion, she also applauded Indian girls and young women fighting for human rights, "speaking out" for farmers in India, climate change and protection of the minority rights, and called their work "empowering and inspiring".

    However, the news of the internet shutdown and arrests of activists protesting peacefully in India is "worrying", she claimed.

    ".. You may not like their political opinion but it does not mean that you put them in jails and arrest them. It is a democratic right of every individual -- including women and girls -- to highlight their political opinions... So I hope that the government makes sure that people can protest peacefully and ask for their rights, and that they are heard," she added.

    The 14th edition of JLF featured over 300 speakers and performers representing around 25 Indian and 18 international languages and over 23 nationalities.

    Some of the big names who made it to the festival this year included American linguist Noam Chomsky, 2020 Booker Prize winner Douglas Stuart, Nobel Laureates Joseph Stiglitz, Microsoft Corporation co-founder Bill Gates, and actor-author Priyanka Chopra.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world...509804445.html


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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRIC_FANtastic View Post
    It was Pakistan formal and stated position for no dialog unless revocation of 5th August 2019 actions by India. Still, you guys are dragged to DGMO level discussion and arm twisted for this agreement. Now, who has surrendered their position and where has penny dropped finally? Watch your ex Ambassador to India, Abdul Basit's vlog for better understanding.
    big difference between high level dialogue and low level tactical ceasefire at the operation level. our assertion still stands as can be seen from Ik's statement. Its quite clear to most observers that China's moves have turned up the pressure and now a permanent threat remains on both of India's borders rather than on just one.

    Our stated position on 5th aug hasnt changed an iota.

  38. #38
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    WASHINGTON: The United States has assured the international community that it’s following the developments in Jammu and Kashmir very closely and continues to support direct talks between India and Pakistan on the issue.

    The Kashmir issue has been raised regularly in the daily news briefings of the US State Department since the Biden administration came to power on Jan 20. Journalists, including those in the American media, seem eager to know how the new administration intends to deal with the age-old dispute between South Asia’s two nuclear powers, India and Pakistan.

    At the Thursday afternoon news briefing, a journalist reminded State Department spokesman Ned Price that India and Pakistan renewed their pledge to maintain peace along the Line of Control (LoC) in Kashmir late last month. Since then, both have avoided violations of a ceasefire agreement they signed in 2003 but peace remains tenuous.

    “What the US Secretary of State Antony Blinken is going to do to ensure that the ceasefire maintains?” the journalist asked.

    “It is true that we have continued to follow very closely developments in Jammu and Kashmir. Our policy towards the region has not changed,” Mr Price replied.

    “We call on all parties to reduce tensions along the Line of Control by returning to the 2003 ceasefire commitments. We condemn terrorists who seek to infiltrate across the Line of Control.”

    Explaining how Washington would ensure both sides respect the ceasefire agreement, Mr Price said: “We continue to support direct dialogue between India and Pakistan on Kashmir and other areas of concern.”

    The journalist then pointed out that the emphasis on direct talks between India and Pakistan has had a negative impact on Kashmiri leaders who feel voiceless in the process. “Is the United States going to do anything to actually engage, not just Indian and Pakistani officials, but Kashmiri leaders as well?” the journalist asked.

    “I don’t have anything for you on that. If there’s anything we can add, we will,” the US official replied.

    At a similar briefing on Wednes*day, Mr Price used the term “union territory” while referring to India-occupied Jammu and Kashmir, but it emphasised at the same time that Washington’s Kashmir policy remained unchanged.

    The United States has consistently recognised Jammu and Kashmir as an area disputed between India and Pakistan, urging both to resolve this issue through bilateral talks. But last month, while welcoming the resumption of high-speed internet in the occupied valley, a State Department tweet referred to the disputed territory as “India’s Jammu & Kashmir”.

    Islamabad responded promptly to the omission, reminding Washington that the tweet was “inconsistent” with the disputed status of the region.

    Also, on Thursday, a report by a US government-funded think-tank, Freedom House, regretted India’s fall from the ranks of free nations after the country’s status was downgraded to “partly free”.

    “Under (Prime Minister Narendra) Modi, India appears to have abandoned its potential to serve as a global democratic leader, elevating narrow Hindu nationalist interests at the expense of its founding values of inclusion and equal rights for all,” warned the Freedom in the World 2021 report.

    Reviewing the global situation in 2021, the report regretted “the fall of India from the upper ranks of free nations” which, it warned, “could have a particularly damaging impact on global democratic standards”.

    Published in Dawn, March 6th, 2021

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1610934/fo...ery-closely-us


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  39. #39
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    In this thread: both sides saying their side is morally superior. Nothing to see here, folks.

  40. #40
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    A brigade command level flagstaff meeting was held between the military officers of Pakistan and India at the Rawalakot - Poonch border crossing point, said a statement issued by the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) on Friday.

    According to the military's media wing, the meeting was held to review the implementation of the points of the ceasefire agreement that was reached between the director-generals of military operations (DGMOs) of the two countries earlier.

    Earlier in February, the nuclear-armed neighbours agreed to observe the ceasefire along the Line of Control (LoC) and all other sectors.

    The announcement was made simultaneously by both Islamabad and New Delhi after a telephonic conversation between senior military officials of the two countries.

    “The director generals of military operations of India and Pakistan held discussions over the established mechanism of hotline contact,” said a joint statement issued by the Indian and Pakistani armies.

    "The two sides reviewed the situation along the LoC and all other sectors in a free, frank and cordial atmosphere," read the official handout.

    The statement added that in the interest of achieving mutually beneficial and sustainable peace, the two DGMOs agreed to address each other’s core issues and concerns that have the propensity to disturb the peace and lead to violence.

    "Both the sides agreed to strictly observe all agreements, understandings and cease firing along the LoC and all other sectors, with effect from midnight 24/25 February 21," the statement said.

    It further noted that both sides reiterated that existing mechanisms of hotline contact and border flag meetings will be utilised to resolve any unforeseen situation or misunderstanding.

    The thaw is seen as a major development after years of tensions between the two nuclear-armed neighbours. It also came just days before the second anniversary of the Balakot incident and subsequent retaliation by Pakistan that brought the two countries on the brink of war.

    The apparent thaw in ties is being attributed to quiet diplomacy between the two countries.

    https://tribune.com.pk/story/2291639...meeting-at-loc


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  41. #41
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    ISLAMABAD:Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi on Sunday held a telephonic conversation with his Saudi counterpart Prince Faisal bin Farhan Al-Saud in what appears to be part of a flurry of diplomatic efforts ahead of the gathering of regional countries on Afghan peace in Tajikistan where top Indian and Pakistani diplomats may meet.

    Qureshi also spoke to the UAE Foreign Minister a day earlier, reinforcing the perception that both Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) might be playing a role in seeking a rapprochement between Pakistan and India.

    The officials, however, are tight-lipped and would not say if Foreign Minister Qureshi and his Indian counterpart S Jaishankar would meet on the sidelines of the ministerial conference of Heart of Asia-Istanbul Process on Afghanistan taking place in Dushanbe on March 30.

    The Foreign Office confirmed that the foreign minister would lead the Pakistani delegation while Indian External Affairs minister would represent his country.

    This would be the first time Pakistan and Indian foreign Ministers would come face to face since the two sides recently agreed to restore 2003 ceasefire as well as decided to lower the rhetoric against each other.

    "A possibility of a meeting at the sidelines cannot be ruled out," said a diplomatic source.

    Although, there is no official word from any side, certain countries seem to have been active from behind the scenes to ease tensions between the two nuclear-tipped neighbours.

    Earlier, the deputy Saudi Foreign Minister in an interview had said Riyadh was promoting peace between Pakistan and India.
    Qureshi's telephonic conversation both with the Saudi and UAE foreign ministers suggested a coordinated move by the key Gulf countries. Pakistan is also trying to sort out other issues with Saudi Arabia and UAE, something that created a hiccup in bilateral ties.

    "Conveying his profound regards for the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques His Majesty King Salman bin Abdulaziz, and His Royal Highness Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman, Foreign Minister Qureshi reaffirmed Pakistan’s abiding fraternal ties with Saudi Arabia," said the foreign office.

    Qureshi appreciated the steps taken by the Kingdom’s leadership in resolving differences among the countries of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC), as well as the recent initiative for promoting resolution of issues in Yemen through dialogue and diplomacy.

    He also reiterated Pakistan’s support for the Kingdom’s territorial integrity and sovereignty. The Saudi Foreign Minister acknowledged Pakistan’s continued and steadfast support to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

    Praising the “Saudi Green Initiative” and the “Green Middle East Initiative” announced by His Royal Highness Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman, Foreign Minister Qureshi termed it a major initiative for reducing global carbon emissions. The Saudi FM lauded Prime Minister Imran Khan’s ground-breaking measures already taken in Pakistan, in the same arena.

    Qureshi expressed Pakistan’s commitment to augmenting cooperation with the Kingdom in all spheres. Appreciating the two countries’ collaboration in multilateral organizations, he hoped that this mutual support and partnership will further strengthen in future. Reciprocating positively, Prince Faisal expressed readiness to further fortify bilateral cooperation with Pakistan.

    The two Foreign Ministers agreed to maintain steady momentum of high-level exchanges between the two countries.


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